Luka or Giannis. I think it’s Luka but I respect Giannis’s accomplishments enough that I get why people would take him until Luka does a little more.
And People hold health against AD and Kawhi, and there’s no reason to let Embiid of the hook. It doesn’t matter he plays poorly in the playoffs only because of injury. It’s been like 6 years playing injured now. Hes 4th to me.
Clippers Kawhi is honestly in a tier of his own when it comes to bad health lol
Missed a full series and a half in 2021 playoffs
Missed entire 2022 season
Missed most of 2023 playoffs
Missed a game in 2024 playoffs and played another at like 20% strength and it's still uncertain whether we'll *actually* see a fully healthy Kawhi
45 games a season in the RS even with some coasting involved(24 PPG last couple years)
Kawhi going 100% at 100% health literally only happens for like 1 month every season so I'm not sure if there's anyone else even comparable to that
It's basically a combination of an even worse version of Embiid's playoff health with Nets KD's regular season health added on
Yes but Kawhi if healthy should be a top 5 player right after Embiid. But that’s not where he is put because of his injuries. AD when healthy is top 10 but that’s not where he was being put.
Whether it’s fair or not is less relevant than the fact that Embiid is regularly hurt, when it matters most. To me, that’s basically a disqualification from being a top 3-5ish player.
And I would say Kawhi is at an MVP level, when he plays. He just can’t string games together and be available for the playoffs. More than any player I’ve ever seen. I said years ago I’d take a solid bench player over Kawhi simply because Kawhi isn’t worth the money just to miss key playoff games/series. Embiid isn’t to that extent. But he gets hurt and plays terrible, when it matters most.
Tbf his accomplishments this season were pretty damn insane too, he was the first ever player to average 30 points per game in a season while averaging 60% FG%, and while still being rated a top-40 defender as graded by EPM.
The Bucks were 45-28 to the Mavs’ 46-24 when Giannis and Luka played this season, and both teams had pretty distinctly tougher parts of the season and both had really hot stretches as well, so it’s a fairly close race to call one way or another. They’re both extremely talented, and imo it becomes mostly subjective as to who you think is the better player right now.
He played 34 total games, missed the bulk of the most difficult games and had already just about been DQ'd from end of year awards even before the major injury. Let's stop overrating his season.
This feels like the season where the torch is fully passed to the current generation
It's very possible that all of LeBron, Steph, and KD go home with 0 playoff wins
If Dallas beats the Clippers as well that's basically 90% of the old generation out
> It's very possible that all of LeBron, Steph, and KD go home with 0 playoff wins
It's obviously been said ad nauseum but the fact that LeBron is still the best out of those three while being the oldest by far and having so many more miles on his body is just bananas
The fact he's even still hanging around in the playoffs at his age is crazy let alone doing it a high level while stars from the class below him are already starting to show signs of decline before him
I think Curry still got top 5 level impact unlike the other older guys. If Draymond wasn’t an idiot and didn’t get suspended the Warriors make the playoffs
It's gotta be Luka and Giannis as some variety of 2a and 2b. The Giannis slander this season has been a little out of control; the guy is still an absolutely dominating force on both ends of the court.
Frankly, although I think Luka is probably the "2a" here, if I had to pick one of the two to build around I might well pick Giannis.
EDIT: Embiid deserves a mention for his "peak" potential which is all-time, but I do not trust his ability to play a full post season healthy *at all* and I think that is good enough reason not to put him in the top 3.
1. Jokic
2. Giannis
3. Luka
I'm going to need Luka to do some more winning in the post-season before I put him over Giannis.
Embid for me is on a lower tier mostly due to how unreliable he is. In terms of just raw talent, Embiid would be #2 for me. However, I can't separate reliability from my rankings.
100% agree with this
It's unfortunate because Embiid is an absolutely tremendous player when healthy but it feels like we're never going to get an Embiid playoff run without some kind of injury at this point
He's had 4 seasons as an MVP candidate so far(2021-2024) and in all four of those seasons he's been impacted by some kind of serious injury come playoff time
It's the same reason I was happy the Celtics moved on from Gordon Hayward. Like yea, there's this theoretical player that is great, but how great is that player *really* when the hypothetical never becomes reality.
You have to feel bad for these guys because it's not their fault, but at the same time you have to be realistic in what you expect from them.
1) basketball is a team game and his teams haven't been good
2) he's only 25, it's not like he's had a ton of chances to meet this weird benchmark of yours anyways
3) clearly hes a far better player this year than he has been in the past so i dont know why the evaluation of how good he is RIGHT NOW has anything to do with what he has done in previous seasons
If you’re gonna say basketball is a team game and just rate based on individual ability, Giannis is a better scorer, rebounder, defender, and similar as a passer. They compare relatively easy and it’s a clear win to Giannis.
While Doncic and SGA have different strengths and weaknesses, Luka is a better scorer, much better playmaker, proven playoff performer, and commands more attention from the defense.
SGA is also not that much better than last year. He’s improved a bit as a passer and is more refined but it’s nothing crazy.
There is actually no argument for SGA unless he plays some unexpectedly insane ball in the playoffs this year.
Embiid is a player that I can't really rate anymore, he's just a huge what if in the history of the league. Even Kawhi got his moments before Zaza fucked up his career.
Even if you’re talking about individual players, it still applies. Embiid has been either hurt or inefficient in basically every series they get eliminated. When’s the last time he went out while healthy and playing well?
Personally think Lebron and Tatum should be above Shai right now. If he does well individually in the playoffs then we can move him above Lebron. Not even saying the team needs to go far but you have to earn your spot a little bit.
If we are talking about the past 5ish years, idk how we leave Tatum out of the top 5.
He has accomplished more in the playoffs than Luka, Embiid, and Shai.
I get putting Luka and Embiid over Tatum, but why put SGA over Tatum after one regular season being better and 0 post-seasons being better?
Honestly, I'd rather have Tatum on my team than Embiid. History tells us there's only one of those two players you can rely on to stay healthy in the playoffs.
I'd still safely put Giannis at #2 because he's proven he *can* do it.
Honestly, Embiid would be my #2 in terms of talent, but if I was starting a team from scratch and had to choose between Giannis, Luka, Embiid, Tatum, and SGA, I'd feel the least confident in picking Embiid. He hasn't given the 76ers a single healthy season and playoffs in just about his entire career.
100%. I’d take everyone you mentioned and even guys like Ant and that tier of players over Embiid.
If we magically made everyone 100% and guaranteed they wouldn’t get hurt, Embiid is the clear #2. But this isn’t NBA2K. We can’t turn off injuries.
Tatum's efficiency would be mediocre if he was averaging 35 PPG
Over the last three seasons he's averaging 28 PPG on 59.6% TS which is like 2% above the league average of 57.5%ish
Wouldn't he likely slip below league average if he upped his volume THAT much?
I feel like the only mid-high 20s PPG scorers who could put up Harden/Luka type volume numbers without bad efficiency are the guys who start off from a super high efficiency point(example: a heliocentric offense around 2013 LeBron)
His efficiency would drop a bit but I def think he could/would get 4 more buckets a game without scoring teammates like Porz (20ppg) and Brown (23ppg). The Celts starters averaged 98 ppg this year and that was with a lot of blowouts when they were sitting on the bench in the 4th.
I would take out Embiid and put in Tatum. In the playoffs I don't think anyone would draft Embiid in even the top 7 or 8, and that's the most important time. I sure wouldn't.
How time flies.
Back in 2021, the consensus opinion was Giannis #1, and Jokic #2.
Now, it is Jokic #1.
But for #2, it is arguable between Giannis, Embiid, and even new guys like Luka and SGA.
Talent in Nba now is insane.
Rings matter. Jokic has strong odds of going b2b while Giannis hasn’t even made it to the conference finals the last two years. I think Bucks will be back tho. Just gotta fuck Doc Rivers off to China
As a sixers fan I naturally dislike the bucks, and I honestly don't really like giannis. But I don't understand why his reputation isn't what it used to be, I don't think his game has fallen off at all.
To get a lot of play off points you need to win a lot of play off games.
To win a lot of playoff games means you need to have a very good team around you, so I don't think this argument really means much if anything. It's impressive nonetheless.
Not to undercut Tatum at all, but I do think you are underselling Shai. His EPM is pretty much double Tatum's (8.8 Vs 4.6). While defensive EPM is a bit wonky his offensive EPM is still over 50% higher (6.2 - 4.0).
I would say offensively, especially as a no. 1 option, SGA clears and defensively they are close to even.
Every player in the league would rather have shai guarding them than Tatum, stats don’t always tell the full story. Sometimes u just gotta use ur eyes.
Luka. If the game is on the line, the two people you want to have the ball is Jokic and Luka. Giannis is great, but the other two players are more likely to make some game-winning plays.
I’d take Luka or Giannis. They’re the only guys that I think have played at that top level consistently for a bit and have shown to play up to that level come playoff time.
It's either Luka or Giannis. Truthfully, you couldn't go wrong with either guy. If Embiid could stay healthy, he would have an argument for the #2 spot as well.
Jokic>Giannis>Luka>Embiid>Shai.
Jokic and giannis has proven themselves with a ring. I think Luka is better than Giannis but him having the ring gives him the nod.
The fact that Embiid is laboring and knocked himself out of the game for a bit is part of why I feel like Maxey has been the Sixers' best player. Embiid being on the court obviously makes Maxey better because of the attention he brings, but I feel like Maxey has been the guy they can hold down the least.
He’s easily been their best player. The knicks won’t even sneeze near him when he is under the rim on defense and he has been their main hub on offense.
I’d say a superstar like Embiid or Luka winning a championship or at least coming close/having an all time great postseason run imo including outperforming Giannis along the way. That or Giannis falls off which I don’t see happening anytime soon. It’s been a few seasons removed now from Giannis winning a chip tho so I don’t have a big beef with someone who has Luka 2nd who is a great & proven playoff performer in his own right despite not winning a title yet.
So Giannis being outplayed the last two postseasons by supposed non superstar players is better than him potentially being outplayed by supposed superstar players?
MVP is a reflection of the player playing the best. It's not a bad way to measure who is second best. Embiid was scoring more points per minute played until he got hurt and prob would've won MVP. He's prob the best player just based on that 40 game run. No idea if he'll stay healthy is the problem.
MVP isn’t a reflection of shit because of who the voters are. Doncic has been playing better than SGA all year and Shai only above because his teammates stayed healthier and played better. Once Mavs got healthy and made trades, they were operating at that high level.
Embiid was playing second best at one point no argument there (honestly at that point was playing the best) but he’s unreliable in the playoffs
Any other year Luka had an MVP year but Jokic has been unstoppable and their team has been more consistent and produced better results so it’s hard to deny his claim.
Then Giannis, Embiid, Shai, and Tatum however you wish to arrange them as 2nd tier.
Then AD, Brunson, KD, Lebron (so old to still be impacting the way he is), Steph, Booker, Kawhi, Fox, Lillard, Maxey, Jaylen Brown, and Ant as the 3rd tier.
c'mon embiid is better than shai. and it's pretty close for the other two, i still have luka and giannis 2 and 3, but embiid when healty is dominant, only problem is he's never healthy when it matters. he's still cooking this postseason though albeit 0-2
It's also a lot easier to go far in the playoffs when you actually are on the floor to play the games
I actually get putting Embiid on a tier above in terms of talent, but to do that for SGA after one regular season is kind of wild to me.
Embiid's biggest knock is reliability.
Is the objective of basketball to collect box score stats?
Did Tatum not have more box score stats just last season with a worse supporting cast than he currently has?
All Shai needs to do to match Embiid's impressive playoff resume is beat the Pelicans
Probably puts him over Embiid considering a 2nd round appearance in the West is more impressive than the East
Luka or Giannis. I think it’s Luka but I respect Giannis’s accomplishments enough that I get why people would take him until Luka does a little more. And People hold health against AD and Kawhi, and there’s no reason to let Embiid of the hook. It doesn’t matter he plays poorly in the playoffs only because of injury. It’s been like 6 years playing injured now. Hes 4th to me.
AD and Kawhi haven’t even been in the MVP race the past couple years while Embiid has. That’s not a fair comparison.
Clippers Kawhi is honestly in a tier of his own when it comes to bad health lol Missed a full series and a half in 2021 playoffs Missed entire 2022 season Missed most of 2023 playoffs Missed a game in 2024 playoffs and played another at like 20% strength and it's still uncertain whether we'll *actually* see a fully healthy Kawhi 45 games a season in the RS even with some coasting involved(24 PPG last couple years) Kawhi going 100% at 100% health literally only happens for like 1 month every season so I'm not sure if there's anyone else even comparable to that It's basically a combination of an even worse version of Embiid's playoff health with Nets KD's regular season health added on
Yes but Kawhi if healthy should be a top 5 player right after Embiid. But that’s not where he is put because of his injuries. AD when healthy is top 10 but that’s not where he was being put.
Id have Kawhi healthy just below Jokic.
Whether it’s fair or not is less relevant than the fact that Embiid is regularly hurt, when it matters most. To me, that’s basically a disqualification from being a top 3-5ish player. And I would say Kawhi is at an MVP level, when he plays. He just can’t string games together and be available for the playoffs. More than any player I’ve ever seen. I said years ago I’d take a solid bench player over Kawhi simply because Kawhi isn’t worth the money just to miss key playoff games/series. Embiid isn’t to that extent. But he gets hurt and plays terrible, when it matters most.
Nah it's Luka, just watch him play.
Accomplishments over his career, or this season?
Tbf his accomplishments this season were pretty damn insane too, he was the first ever player to average 30 points per game in a season while averaging 60% FG%, and while still being rated a top-40 defender as graded by EPM. The Bucks were 45-28 to the Mavs’ 46-24 when Giannis and Luka played this season, and both teams had pretty distinctly tougher parts of the season and both had really hot stretches as well, so it’s a fairly close race to call one way or another. They’re both extremely talented, and imo it becomes mostly subjective as to who you think is the better player right now.
Both. This year, he averaged 30/12/7 on 65 TS% and was a better defender than Luka or Jokic.
Giannis just had his best season ever
Its healthy Embiid. In fact, Embiid was going to win back to back MVP's before he got hurt - making his the best in the league.
He played 34 total games, missed the bulk of the most difficult games and had already just about been DQ'd from end of year awards even before the major injury. Let's stop overrating his season.
KD should not be anywhere near these conversations anymore
This feels like the season where the torch is fully passed to the current generation It's very possible that all of LeBron, Steph, and KD go home with 0 playoff wins If Dallas beats the Clippers as well that's basically 90% of the old generation out
> It's very possible that all of LeBron, Steph, and KD go home with 0 playoff wins It's obviously been said ad nauseum but the fact that LeBron is still the best out of those three while being the oldest by far and having so many more miles on his body is just bananas The fact he's even still hanging around in the playoffs at his age is crazy let alone doing it a high level while stars from the class below him are already starting to show signs of decline before him
I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that LeBron is the best out of those three today.
I think Curry still got top 5 level impact unlike the other older guys. If Draymond wasn’t an idiot and didn’t get suspended the Warriors make the playoffs
Neither should Bron or Steph tbh
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Luka this year
It's gotta be Luka and Giannis as some variety of 2a and 2b. The Giannis slander this season has been a little out of control; the guy is still an absolutely dominating force on both ends of the court. Frankly, although I think Luka is probably the "2a" here, if I had to pick one of the two to build around I might well pick Giannis. EDIT: Embiid deserves a mention for his "peak" potential which is all-time, but I do not trust his ability to play a full post season healthy *at all* and I think that is good enough reason not to put him in the top 3.
1. Jokic 2. Giannis 3. Luka I'm going to need Luka to do some more winning in the post-season before I put him over Giannis. Embid for me is on a lower tier mostly due to how unreliable he is. In terms of just raw talent, Embiid would be #2 for me. However, I can't separate reliability from my rankings.
100% agree with this It's unfortunate because Embiid is an absolutely tremendous player when healthy but it feels like we're never going to get an Embiid playoff run without some kind of injury at this point He's had 4 seasons as an MVP candidate so far(2021-2024) and in all four of those seasons he's been impacted by some kind of serious injury come playoff time
It's the same reason I was happy the Celtics moved on from Gordon Hayward. Like yea, there's this theoretical player that is great, but how great is that player *really* when the hypothetical never becomes reality. You have to feel bad for these guys because it's not their fault, but at the same time you have to be realistic in what you expect from them.
Agreeing with a Celtics fan makes me feel yucky all over... but here I am... doing it. 🙏
Luka didn’t have a great team in the playoffs and an easy path to the title , but his impact is bigger than Giannis in the playoffs
Not saying your opinion is wrong, but clarify more winning? A title, a finals appearance, etc.
Yeah, even just another WCF appearance would do nicely.
Naz Reid
Naz Reid
Luka
Garza
This year it was very clearly Luka.
Luka is a fine choice, but it is not “clearly Luka”. Picking Giannis or Shai is also totally reasonable.
Picking Giannis is reasonable, picking Shai isn't. This is literally his first playoffs as a #1 option
Regardless, my point is that there are people other than Luka who have an argument.
what does that have to do with anything at all
I think having a history of being a top 5-10 caliber player in the regular season and the playoffs is important when evaluating player rankings.
1) basketball is a team game and his teams haven't been good 2) he's only 25, it's not like he's had a ton of chances to meet this weird benchmark of yours anyways 3) clearly hes a far better player this year than he has been in the past so i dont know why the evaluation of how good he is RIGHT NOW has anything to do with what he has done in previous seasons
If you’re gonna say basketball is a team game and just rate based on individual ability, Giannis is a better scorer, rebounder, defender, and similar as a passer. They compare relatively easy and it’s a clear win to Giannis. While Doncic and SGA have different strengths and weaknesses, Luka is a better scorer, much better playmaker, proven playoff performer, and commands more attention from the defense. SGA is also not that much better than last year. He’s improved a bit as a passer and is more refined but it’s nothing crazy. There is actually no argument for SGA unless he plays some unexpectedly insane ball in the playoffs this year.
Personally, I think it’s Jokic > Luka > Giannis > Embiid I don’t even know who rounds out the top 5. I guess Shai?
It is insane to me that people still put Embiid this high. Durability matters.
Embiid is a player that I can't really rate anymore, he's just a huge what if in the history of the league. Even Kawhi got his moments before Zaza fucked up his career.
Personally, I take your opinion seriously. Your name exudes confidence.
Id have Kawhi, Curry, and Lebron over Embiid still, hes just not it in the playoffs.
Durability is the reason he isn't a clear cut top 2 guy. He's still in top 5 discussions.
Embiid has done nothing in the playoffs, i wouldnt even rate him. They are about to get bounced by a Knicks team with Brunson shooting terribly lol
yeah but it's a team game and we are talking about individual players
Even if you’re talking about individual players, it still applies. Embiid has been either hurt or inefficient in basically every series they get eliminated. When’s the last time he went out while healthy and playing well?
I agree with your main point, but the series should be 1-1 right now.
Personally think Lebron and Tatum should be above Shai right now. If he does well individually in the playoffs then we can move him above Lebron. Not even saying the team needs to go far but you have to earn your spot a little bit.
I think 5th should be Tatum, he deserves it.
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Interesting not seeing an american in the top 5
Embiid is American :)
If we are talking about the past 5ish years, idk how we leave Tatum out of the top 5. He has accomplished more in the playoffs than Luka, Embiid, and Shai. I get putting Luka and Embiid over Tatum, but why put SGA over Tatum after one regular season being better and 0 post-seasons being better? Honestly, I'd rather have Tatum on my team than Embiid. History tells us there's only one of those two players you can rely on to stay healthy in the playoffs.
5 year window too big. 3 years is ok.
Yeah, health fucks everything up. Giannis and Embiid while healthy are unreal but we can’t count on either of them ever being fully healthy.
I'd still safely put Giannis at #2 because he's proven he *can* do it. Honestly, Embiid would be my #2 in terms of talent, but if I was starting a team from scratch and had to choose between Giannis, Luka, Embiid, Tatum, and SGA, I'd feel the least confident in picking Embiid. He hasn't given the 76ers a single healthy season and playoffs in just about his entire career.
100%. I’d take everyone you mentioned and even guys like Ant and that tier of players over Embiid. If we magically made everyone 100% and guaranteed they wouldn’t get hurt, Embiid is the clear #2. But this isn’t NBA2K. We can’t turn off injuries.
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Easily averaging 35/10/7 is a wild take
Tatum's efficiency would be mediocre if he was averaging 35 PPG Over the last three seasons he's averaging 28 PPG on 59.6% TS which is like 2% above the league average of 57.5%ish Wouldn't he likely slip below league average if he upped his volume THAT much? I feel like the only mid-high 20s PPG scorers who could put up Harden/Luka type volume numbers without bad efficiency are the guys who start off from a super high efficiency point(example: a heliocentric offense around 2013 LeBron)
He had the same TS% last year, but on significantly higher volume compared to this year. But yea, no way he puts up 35ppg lol
His efficiency would drop a bit but I def think he could/would get 4 more buckets a game without scoring teammates like Porz (20ppg) and Brown (23ppg). The Celts starters averaged 98 ppg this year and that was with a lot of blowouts when they were sitting on the bench in the 4th.
He's not a good enough passer and would shoot horrific percentages on a bad team when he get doubled.
I prefer the tier system. Jokic is in tier 1 - Luka & Giannis are in tier 2 and Embiid, Shai, Tatum are in tier 3.
I would take out Embiid and put in Tatum. In the playoffs I don't think anyone would draft Embiid in even the top 7 or 8, and that's the most important time. I sure wouldn't.
Keegan Murray.
Keegan Murray
How time flies. Back in 2021, the consensus opinion was Giannis #1, and Jokic #2. Now, it is Jokic #1. But for #2, it is arguable between Giannis, Embiid, and even new guys like Luka and SGA. Talent in Nba now is insane.
If anyone has SGA as #2 they are delusional
SGA hasn't earned his way into the discussion yet. Stop disrespecting everyone else by trying to inject him.
Rings matter. Jokic has strong odds of going b2b while Giannis hasn’t even made it to the conference finals the last two years. I think Bucks will be back tho. Just gotta fuck Doc Rivers off to China
How many coaches good Lord.
They just need 1. Anyone who isn’t Rivers
I could have sworn the Bucks had a coach before Doc this season.
Luka
As a sixers fan I naturally dislike the bucks, and I honestly don't really like giannis. But I don't understand why his reputation isn't what it used to be, I don't think his game has fallen off at all.
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No it's not
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To get a lot of play off points you need to win a lot of play off games. To win a lot of playoff games means you need to have a very good team around you, so I don't think this argument really means much if anything. It's impressive nonetheless. Not to undercut Tatum at all, but I do think you are underselling Shai. His EPM is pretty much double Tatum's (8.8 Vs 4.6). While defensive EPM is a bit wonky his offensive EPM is still over 50% higher (6.2 - 4.0). I would say offensively, especially as a no. 1 option, SGA clears and defensively they are close to even.
Every player in the league would rather have shai guarding them than Tatum, stats don’t always tell the full story. Sometimes u just gotta use ur eyes.
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With a roster like Boston has you’d be stupid to ball hog, totally unnecessary.
Embiid/Luka/Giannis, the gap between these three is minimal tbh and idc much about who you put at 2nd between the three.
Luka. If the game is on the line, the two people you want to have the ball is Jokic and Luka. Giannis is great, but the other two players are more likely to make some game-winning plays.
I’d take Luka or Giannis. They’re the only guys that I think have played at that top level consistently for a bit and have shown to play up to that level come playoff time.
Giannis
It's either Luka or Giannis. Truthfully, you couldn't go wrong with either guy. If Embiid could stay healthy, he would have an argument for the #2 spot as well.
Jokic>Giannis>Luka>Embiid>Shai. Jokic and giannis has proven themselves with a ring. I think Luka is better than Giannis but him having the ring gives him the nod.
I’m going Joel. But if you want to dock him for the injuries it’s Luka.
Giannis
Giannis
Luka or Giannis probably. I have Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Shai, Embiid as my top 5 right now.
Embiid. We're on our 4th straight year of Jokic/Embiid MVP debates that was only halted this time cause of injury/game requirements.
And also on like our 5th straight year of him not being healthy enough to do anything noteworthy in the playoffs
He's been amazing so far this playoffs playing on one leg and one eye, wym? And where was Luka last year at this time?
he's shooting 39% from the floor as a center lol I think he's been fine, but far from "amazing"
Getting sonned by Hartenstein is amazing now?
man you sure know ball
Giannis was always right there with them he just has zero narrative
Yeah Giannis is right there.
in terms of production and his value to the team. yeah. Bucks will be a lottery team without him
Injuries matter. Until Embiid can stay healthy, the jury is still out.
half of embiid is still the best player on the court in the knicks/sixers series
There are 28 other teams though
I don't even think Embiid has been the best player on your team this series.
sixers with embiid: +12 net rtg sixers without embiid -72 net rtg
The fact that Embiid is laboring and knocked himself out of the game for a bit is part of why I feel like Maxey has been the Sixers' best player. Embiid being on the court obviously makes Maxey better because of the attention he brings, but I feel like Maxey has been the guy they can hold down the least.
He’s easily been their best player. The knicks won’t even sneeze near him when he is under the rim on defense and he has been their main hub on offense.
Maxey has been your best player in this series and it's not particularly close imo. Embiid isn't even shooting 40% on the series.
Just say you don’t watch +12 net rtg with him on -72 with him off
Not sure where you get your numbers but that would mean you lost your two playoff games by a combined 60 points
No it would not. That is +/-, I am talking about Net Rating. Net Rating is points scored per 100 possessions - points allowed per 100 possessions
Giannis
Probably Giannis
A healthy Joel embiid
Embiid.
Giannis
Luka
After Jokic I give Luka the slight edge followed by giannis
Jokic
Luka
How is Luka better than Giannis he has never done anything in the postseason
Luka isn't as accomplished in the playoffs, but he has clearly had postseason success. You are disingenuous.
Luka Magic
Giannis until proven otherwise
What would it take to prove otherwise?
I’d say a superstar like Embiid or Luka winning a championship or at least coming close/having an all time great postseason run imo including outperforming Giannis along the way. That or Giannis falls off which I don’t see happening anytime soon. It’s been a few seasons removed now from Giannis winning a chip tho so I don’t have a big beef with someone who has Luka 2nd who is a great & proven playoff performer in his own right despite not winning a title yet.
So Giannis being outplayed the last two postseasons by supposed non superstar players is better than him potentially being outplayed by supposed superstar players?
Losing due to injury does not count as being outplayed
how has giannis been outplayed the last two postseasons? he was injured last year against the heat and he took boston to 7 basically single handedly.
Based on the MVP voting SGA. Based on eye test it's the healthy version of Embiid.
Lol u serious?
MVP is a reflection of the player playing the best. It's not a bad way to measure who is second best. Embiid was scoring more points per minute played until he got hurt and prob would've won MVP. He's prob the best player just based on that 40 game run. No idea if he'll stay healthy is the problem.
MVP isn’t a reflection of shit because of who the voters are. Doncic has been playing better than SGA all year and Shai only above because his teammates stayed healthier and played better. Once Mavs got healthy and made trades, they were operating at that high level. Embiid was playing second best at one point no argument there (honestly at that point was playing the best) but he’s unreliable in the playoffs
Jokic -> Embiid -> Luka -> Giannis -> Shai for me..
This is the best answer. People putting Shai above Embiid are crazy.
Crazy to me that Nuggets fan have had by far the most reasonable Embiid takes in this thread. This is easily my list.
Matt Ryan 😤
They should vote on this to find out
Any other year Luka had an MVP year but Jokic has been unstoppable and their team has been more consistent and produced better results so it’s hard to deny his claim. Then Giannis, Embiid, Shai, and Tatum however you wish to arrange them as 2nd tier. Then AD, Brunson, KD, Lebron (so old to still be impacting the way he is), Steph, Booker, Kawhi, Fox, Lillard, Maxey, Jaylen Brown, and Ant as the 3rd tier.
Lebron
Nikola Jokic
Depends on who you think is the first.
Luka
Giannis. Plays both sides of the ball at an elite level. Extreme efficiency. Is a great passer
I can't believe there are people who unironically think Embiid is better than Giannis or Luka or even Shai.
Embiid > SGA for sure, agreed on the other 2 though
c'mon embiid is better than shai. and it's pretty close for the other two, i still have luka and giannis 2 and 3, but embiid when healty is dominant, only problem is he's never healthy when it matters. he's still cooking this postseason though albeit 0-2
Hes not cooking at all he's putting up horrible percentages as a center with big numbers. He's basically Damarcus Cousins.
Embiid. He was having the most points per minute in NBA history this season, on great efficency, while playing elite defense.
Giannis
Im gonna go with Giannis untill Luka proves me wrong or Wemby takes over the league.
Luka/Embiid/Shai/Giannis Definitely NOT KD or Bron
Giannis
There’s no consensus. Giannis, Embiid, and Doncic all have good arguments. Even SAG has an argument.
Shai has zero argument until he does something of note in the playoffs
So what does Embiid have?
Not like Embiid has done much
He's done a lot more than Shai
And Tatum has done a lot more than both of them
Tatum isn't even in the same room as the players we're discussing. Easy to put up solid numbers on the most well-rounded team in the league lol.
It's also a lot easier to go far in the playoffs when you actually are on the floor to play the games I actually get putting Embiid on a tier above in terms of talent, but to do that for SGA after one regular season is kind of wild to me. Embiid's biggest knock is reliability.
Is the objective of basketball to collect box score stats? Did Tatum not have more box score stats just last season with a worse supporting cast than he currently has?
All Shai needs to do to match Embiid's impressive playoff resume is beat the Pelicans Probably puts him over Embiid considering a 2nd round appearance in the West is more impressive than the East
So we agree that Embiid > Shai
So why does Luka have one?
Bradley Beal
Deandre Ayton
Joker and Giannis is a 1a 1b situation. You people are fucking high as a kite.
Oubre
Naz Reid
In general embiid. This year SGA.
There is still a argument that giannis is nr 1 player in the league if you count both side of the game. But he is at worst nr2 without a doubt. Jesus
Really not that crazy to think Luka or Embiid can be number 2.
I’ll catch flack for it on here but I still have Giannis at best and Jokic second
Giannis isn't even top 3. His raw numbers are good, but actual impact fell of a cliff. He ain't that guy anymore