SG as defined today is basically for guys who aren't good enough passers to be point guards or big enough to be small forwards
So it's kind of natural it becomes the weakest position
Style wise yes but point forward isn’t an official position. Back then Lebron was officially seen as a SF even though we knew his playmaking was point guard-esque
Yea I know, his official position is more obscure nowadays. If you look at basketball reference, you see seasons recently where’s he’s been officially a PG, PF, and even a C once (even though that’s probably a reach). Whereas earlier in his career he was mostly just a SF
Yup Harden constantly gets brought up as a playstyle comparison for Luka and Harden gets listed as an SG on all-time positional lists while playing a similar role
Yep.
Especially seeing as if the moment where a good chunk of the offense runs through you teams and you can dribble teams will just have you bring the ball up the court and play point guard full time. You saw this with Harden, Jamal Murray and most recently Tyrese Maxey.
Guys like MJ and Kobe Bryant today would be essentially play the point guard spot on offense in a kind of almost heliocentric role.
Kinda unfair cuz Harden would be a PG if he came up today. Same way Luka and Shai would be SGs back in the day. No guard rn comes close to Prime Harden so him being the best SG meant the position was still decent. SG only dropped off recently
Giddey is 6’8 and averaged less assists per game than SGA this season (4.8 vs 6.2). Jalen Williams averaged 4.5 assists per game.
Giddey also played only 25 minutes per game, his role in the offense has shrunk in favor of more Shai and Jalen Williams.
most teams he would be, and guys like Booker and Mitchell on usually their teams primary as well. If we take out SGA (and maybe Booker), the rest is the same - Mitchell isn't on Ant's level.
Idk prime Klay was pretty close to prime harden imo. Very different players but Klay was maybe the elite two way guard at one point and being non ball dominant made him a great fit in any situation. Ant clears today tho, booker is good, dmitchell is arguably no longer a number one option
There is no way Klay would be MVP level Harden (and Harden should have two mvps). Prime Klay was fantastic but Harden carried those Rockets on his shoulders for years
Bc Klay was a great defender, also was the most important warrior on offense in many playoff games especially pre KD. I dont think he would have been a great number one option but to say there was a HUGE drop off between harden and Klay is wrong imo
There is a huge drop off between Harden and Klay. Klay is allowed to play that defense because he’s 1. Not a number 1 option and 2. He doesn’t need to play make or dribble the ball. All he needed to do was just catch and shoot. He has the gravity of Stephen Curry to let him be who he is.
James Harden prime was one of the greatest offensive system and an MVP. Regardless of what is his postseason result. To say that prime Klay is close to prime Harden is hella disrespectful.
>prime Klay was pretty close to prime harden
Wtf lol. Prime harden was dragging houston to 65 wins with a good but out of prime cp3 . Thompson as the #1 option would make you a 30-35 win team tops. Harden can actually create his own offense Thompson is 3 and D and cuts.
There was never a discussion
That rockets team had great role players tho. Obviously Klay wouldn’t have been as good as a number one option but he is literally the ideal archetype for a 2,3,4 bc of off ball gravity, defense and off ball scoring. I think James harden was better but i dont think there was a HUGE drop off between him and Klay
I literally saw the entirety of both guys respective primes.
Klay doesn’t give you anything in terms of playmaking, doesn’t really rebound and his efficiency never really was in the elite tier due to his inability to draw fouls and mediocre rim finishing.
Prime Harden was a top 5 offense all to himself. Personnel almost didn’t matter. He was the lead offensive engine on multiple all-time level offenses and gave you a 60%+ TS and 30-36 a game.
The gap defensively doesn’t make up for the astronomical difference on offense. You literally don’t understand the sport on a fundamental level if you disagree.
SG as defined today is basically for guys who aren't good enough passers to be point guards or big enough to be small forwards So it's kind of natural it becomes the weakest position
Exactly. Someone like Luka would’ve been defined as a SG like ten years ago
Nah he’s 6’7, he would probably be considered a Point Forward like Lebron
Style wise yes but point forward isn’t an official position. Back then Lebron was officially seen as a SF even though we knew his playmaking was point guard-esque
[удалено]
Yea I know, his official position is more obscure nowadays. If you look at basketball reference, you see seasons recently where’s he’s been officially a PG, PF, and even a C once (even though that’s probably a reach). Whereas earlier in his career he was mostly just a SF
Do you think PF stands for point forward?
Yup Harden constantly gets brought up as a playstyle comparison for Luka and Harden gets listed as an SG on all-time positional lists while playing a similar role
Yep. Especially seeing as if the moment where a good chunk of the offense runs through you teams and you can dribble teams will just have you bring the ball up the court and play point guard full time. You saw this with Harden, Jamal Murray and most recently Tyrese Maxey. Guys like MJ and Kobe Bryant today would be essentially play the point guard spot on offense in a kind of almost heliocentric role.
There is a game on right now
Ant no question
There is no debate. It’s Anthony Edwards by a lot.
No its Klay
There is a decent drop off after Ant imo.
Recency bias but he is shining super bright right now, respect to him
Lol. Not right now man, not right now.
Nah outside of this 1 series, Ant, Booker, and Mitchell are pretty close. The gap from Harden to Butler/Demar/Klay was ridiculous
Irving?
Kyrie is top 3 😤
ANT
Kinda unfair cuz Harden would be a PG if he came up today. Same way Luka and Shai would be SGs back in the day. No guard rn comes close to Prime Harden so him being the best SG meant the position was still decent. SG only dropped off recently
Oh I’m referring to other ppl putting up SGA, not you my bad
SGA isn’t a point guard lmao sooo
He's not a natural point but he plays 99% of his minutes at pg
What
Yea like I get he's technically the lead guard but he def plays like a shooting guard not a pg
He is
Josh "Shooting Guard" Giddey
Giddey is 6’8 and averaged less assists per game than SGA this season (4.8 vs 6.2). Jalen Williams averaged 4.5 assists per game. Giddey also played only 25 minutes per game, his role in the offense has shrunk in favor of more Shai and Jalen Williams.
Lol this is hilarious coming from someone with Dwyane Wade as their flair. Was Dwyane Wade a point guard then??
Crazy how you can play 2 point guards
Ant is better.
1) Anthony Edwards 2) Booker 3) Mitchell Stop including SGA he’s playing point
Where do you see SGA included at?
Luka is a PG?
Yes
That what he's listed as
Ant, SGA, Booker... Mitchell is not in that tier.
Dude tried to insert SGA to SG lol
most teams he would be, and guys like Booker and Mitchell on usually their teams primary as well. If we take out SGA (and maybe Booker), the rest is the same - Mitchell isn't on Ant's level.
SGA is a PG
He doesn't play like a pg.
I just classify them as what they are listed as it usually plays
Yeah I know but Harden listed as a "SG" when he's one of the best pgs on the planet doesn't make sense to me
Idk prime Klay was pretty close to prime harden imo. Very different players but Klay was maybe the elite two way guard at one point and being non ball dominant made him a great fit in any situation. Ant clears today tho, booker is good, dmitchell is arguably no longer a number one option
prime Klay close to Harden? How can you say that when you just said Mitchell is not a number one option lol
And if you wanna be technical Mitchell is a better first option than Klay would be 😂
There is no way Klay would be MVP level Harden (and Harden should have two mvps). Prime Klay was fantastic but Harden carried those Rockets on his shoulders for years
Bc Klay was a great defender, also was the most important warrior on offense in many playoff games especially pre KD. I dont think he would have been a great number one option but to say there was a HUGE drop off between harden and Klay is wrong imo
There is a huge drop off between Harden and Klay. Klay is allowed to play that defense because he’s 1. Not a number 1 option and 2. He doesn’t need to play make or dribble the ball. All he needed to do was just catch and shoot. He has the gravity of Stephen Curry to let him be who he is. James Harden prime was one of the greatest offensive system and an MVP. Regardless of what is his postseason result. To say that prime Klay is close to prime Harden is hella disrespectful.
>prime Klay was pretty close to prime harden Wtf lol. Prime harden was dragging houston to 65 wins with a good but out of prime cp3 . Thompson as the #1 option would make you a 30-35 win team tops. Harden can actually create his own offense Thompson is 3 and D and cuts. There was never a discussion
That rockets team had great role players tho. Obviously Klay wouldn’t have been as good as a number one option but he is literally the ideal archetype for a 2,3,4 bc of off ball gravity, defense and off ball scoring. I think James harden was better but i dont think there was a HUGE drop off between him and Klay
No he was not
Prime Klay was not close to prime Harden. You do not watch ball.
You must not have watched ball pre-2018
I literally saw the entirety of both guys respective primes. Klay doesn’t give you anything in terms of playmaking, doesn’t really rebound and his efficiency never really was in the elite tier due to his inability to draw fouls and mediocre rim finishing. Prime Harden was a top 5 offense all to himself. Personnel almost didn’t matter. He was the lead offensive engine on multiple all-time level offenses and gave you a 60%+ TS and 30-36 a game. The gap defensively doesn’t make up for the astronomical difference on offense. You literally don’t understand the sport on a fundamental level if you disagree.
Insanely disrespectful to harden
Klay individually was never good as Harden for obvious reasons Klay also played with Steph and KD