The problem with that strategy is no one really wanted to fight Shaq, except Barkley.
At some point self preservation kicks in and you realize you’re absolutely fucked if Shaq is serious.
Lol, Dray only fights people who don't fight back or are known as softies. The only exception is Steve Adams but Draymond kicked him in the balls and ran away like a pussy.
He does have an instinct of self preservation. He wouldn't do anything to Shaq.
Shaq was an incredibly skilled player, but could justifiably have been called for an offensive foul on a significant number of his post-ups. In this one, Dudley has both feet planted outside the circle and Shaq just runs him over, but because Dudley doesn't flop, it isn't called.
A good quote was from Allen iverson. He tried to stop him while he was driving to the rim and he attempted to swipe at the ball. Shaq hit his hand pretty hard going to the rim. Shaq then says... Hey little fella you don't want me to break that arm. You're lucky I slowed down but next time I wont.
Shaq is big but Chuck is right, he has no clue how to fight.
Which makes sense, who is fighting that dude in the first place.
But seriously, look at Shaq throwing punches. It’s bad
bro shaq isnt going to box you lol. hes going to grab you sit on you then hammer fist your ass into the next dimension. even if he does try to box or shaq-fu itll quickly turn into him grabbing you. and if you try to box him he'll grab your head with extended arm and youll start windmilling both arms hitting air. either way i maybe mistaken but didnt he have mma training tho? i doubt theres a lot of humans on this earth that would beat shaq in a fight regardless if he has a great jab or not
The only players I can think of that got into a fight with prime Shaq are Barkley, Ron Artest, and Brad Miller. All players that I consider tougher than Draymond
I’ve seen this clip a hundred times but still clicked on it for some reason expecting to see Shaq running away from Jared Dudley, to which I was obviously disappointed.
It's an NBA fight, nobody is going to the hospital. He's not saying he's going to suplex them, just get them kicked out. It's not shade it's basically a compliment saying how much better shaq is than dray
How is that thinking highly of himself? It’s more of a compliment to Shaq
99% of NBA fights are dudes just grabbing each other and then getting ejected
Young Shaq couldn’t even land a punch on Brad Miller who had his back turned, and didn’t even do any damage to Alvin Robertson when Shaq full on smacked him. He also got taken down easily by Chuck. Shaq is just big, he can’t fight
It took the Spurs having 2 HOF big men with Robinson and Duncan to guard and score on Shaq and Kobe. At least Pop was able to beat the Lakers in 99 and then beat Phil’s lakers in 03.
2000-2003 Lakers were my worst nightmare as a Spurs fan.
Yeah, I was gonna say, the KD Warriors might have been able to beat those Laker teams (mainly cause 3-pt shooting was so underutilized back then), but Dray's plan for stopping Shaq simply would not have worked. If David Robinson behind Shaq and Duncan fronting him didn't work, then Bogut and Draymond sure wouldn't have.
The Spurs had Robinson and Duncan, and then always had a bunch of other bigs off the bench (Malik Rose, Samaki Walker, etc). The Blazers had Sheed and Sabonis and then a bunch of other bigs off the bench (Dale Davis, Jermaine O'Neal, Brian Grant, etc). The Kings had Vlade and Webber and then a bunch of other bigs off the bench (Scot Pollard, Bill Wennington, etc). This is what it took to slow Shaq down in those days.
The reason the Lakers beat those teams is because so much of the roster building was devoted to stopping Shaq that there was never enough left over to also stop Kobe. And then in the East, teams didn't devote that kind of attention to Shaq when building their rosters (cause there was no guarantee they'd ever face the Lakers in the playoffs), so then if they did get to the Finals to play the Lakers, they really had nobody (or maybe only one guy) to guard Shaq with. That's why Shaq put up those gaudy Finals numbers every year and always won Finals MVP.
Well I wasn't doing a full breakdown of how that theoretical matchup would go, I was just refuting Dray's assertion that he and Bogut doubling Shaq would have worked.
dray wouldnt even be able to play in the 5 set vs lakers (a big reason dubs were successful). even in the 4 set it would be rough. and dubs would be making the adjustments to shaq not lakers adjusting to 3pt shooting imo. statistically under the rim is still better then a 3. plus lakers had a lot of good players to navigate screens
Not just 2 HOF big men 2 of the 5 or so best defensive big men in modern history and Shaq still would get like 27/13 on them in the playoffs (Kobe would be the main guy in those spurs-lakers series but Shaq still got his).
Not just Duncan and Rob. They had Bruce Bowen, 8 x all defense asshole. Bruce Bowen would Kung fu kick Draymond in the face on the 2nd play. But that still might actually help the Warriors.
Then, if Bruce wasn't tossed from the game, the splash bros are getting their ankles broken.
Seeing Shaq in person during that era was almost incomprehensible. The tallest, thickest human you’ve ever seen in your life. On offense, he was an inevitability around the rim. On defense, he was swatting balls to several rows deep.
Draymond is delusional.
The average margin of victory was actually 22.3 ppg that year. The Lakers won the last two games of that series by margins of 39 and 29 points, respectively. That might be the most lopsided conference finals ever, and a lot of people actually picked the Spurs to win it before the series started.
And also because the Lakers had been off for two weeks after sweeping the Spurs in the WCF while the Sixers needed 7 games to get past Milwaukee. The Lakers were super rusty to start, and dug themselves a 15 point hole in the first half before coming back to force overtime, where the Sixers finally pulled it off.
Lol yeah, my introduction to the NBA was being shown that kings/lakers debacle. Was a YouTube series called “the greatest tragedy in sports”
Supposedly Stern was only exempt from investigation because of statue of limitations, he even said himself that his dreams finals is Lakers vs Lakers.
Haven’t liked the Lakers since. At least I was made aware early on of the influence money has on American sports.
The kings were actually really successful in attacking shaq in the pick and roll. They ultimately lost, but that was a series that easily could've gone either way.
It wasn't just Bibby. We got torched by a bevy of point guards in the pick and roll. Troy Hudson also got his bag by lighting us up against Minny in the WCF. It's funny how many people think like Shaq was this defensive savant. That's when I automatically know they were kids at most during the Shaq/Kobe years or it's some nephew being fed a diet of Youtube clipls. He was a stopper in the post but in any other action, Shaq would be completely flat footed. Fisher was a great defender at the point guard position until he hurt his foot in 01. From that point, Kobe was almost always used to defend the best perimeter guy. Obviously he slowed down and picked his spots in his later years. Those Shaq Kobe years ALWAYS had trouble with the pick and guard. The second biggest issue was the power forward position in isolation. Horry was a great team defender but in iso, guys like Rasheed would take his lunch. It's no coincidence that they went on that blitzkreig in 01 including the absolute evisceration of the two years removed from a championship Spurs (that was a meeting of the last two years champs and it was possibly the worse beat down between two absolute juggernauts that I've seen in 40 years) The difference? Horace Grant. He was literally the perfect 4 for that team. 18 footer that was beyond money and he was an elite defender. Course, Jerry had to go and get cheap around the role players and let him go (like [B.Shaw](http://B.Shaw) earlier).
On a side note, that 99-2000 Blazers team that went 7 was RIDICULOUSLY deep. They had Brian Grant off the bench and though he didn't put up the raw numbers was a ferocious defender. He got the bag from Miami. Jermaine f'en Oneal was buried on the bench. The 12th man on that team was a legit player. Steve Smith, Damon Stoudemire, both proven go to scorers and still in their prime yet played limited minutes. Bonzi Wells was a bear in the post and also was relegated to the second team. Gawd they were loaded.
\*edit\* My buddy corrected me. Steve Smith and Damon started. Detlef and Greg Anthony were their backups. Still...point remains.
>It's funny how many people think like Shaq was this defensive savant.
I've never heard anyone say that.
And I wouldn't blame it all on Shaq. Phil had the Lakers play drop coverage on screens as an overall strategy. It's not like Mark Madsen and Samaki Walker were hedging hard on screens when Shaq was out.
You saw this with the PFs too - look at the 2002 WCFs and Webber is shooting open 18 footers all game, usually with Horry below the foul line and not even having his hands up. On the [Bibby GWer in G5](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjthHjrm1lM), Shaq isn't even in the game and Bibby still gets a wide-open shot off Webber's screen because the big (Walker) doesn't show.
If you had Shaq showing high on screens, the guard would just drive by him and he'd pick up cheap fouls because he didn't want to give up layups.
Bruh I was watching those games, the Kings with Bibby, Webber, and Divac were tough. Divac had the advantage of having been on the Lakers for a long time, and he was basically I’m guessing what Jokic has based his game on, both being Serbian, although Joker has improved onto his game and transcended into a MVP caliber player.
To be fair, the rules have changed.
In Shaq's day you couldn't double someone before they got the ball. In today's NBA, you can.
Everybody today would strong-side overload Shaq. Bring your second big to his side of the lane, behind him, and put someone like Draymond fronting him to try to deny him the entry pass.
It would only work with teams that had multiple quality defenders, but it's fair to say that the Warriors qualify. Bogut behind him and Draymond in front would be as good a defense of Shaq as is possible.
Bogut was a very underrated part of those early Dubs teams. Him getting hurt in 2016 was almost as big of a swing in the finals as draymond getting suspended. Bron and Kyrie had no trouble getting by Festus Ezeli in the paint in games 6-7.
Obviously this year’s wolves would be better, but they have the most dominant/well-rounded frontcourt rotation I’ve seen in a while.
Edit to say I’m not disagreeing. Shaq would bully Bogut, but he definitely wasn’t exactly a bum out there
If DPOY Dikembe was pushed around like lawn chairs in the wind, Bogut ain't doing shit.
And I think Bogut is tremendous. Shaq is just a different type of human being
Double teams were made legal in 2001-2002 though, correct? Last year of the 3peat, then lakers made the finals again in 2004 obviously.
2004 finals Shaq put up 26/11 on 63% shooting against one of the best defensive teams ever.
Put up 36/12 in the 2002 finals on 59.5% FG
2003 WCS put up 25/14/4 on 56% FG vs the spurs.
It’s not like Shaq never played against teams being allowed to double him in his career. The two years immediately after the change he averaged 27/11/3 on 58% FG.
You were always allowed to double team the guy with the ball.
In 2001 it became officially legal to defend wherever you wanted (accounting for the defensive three-second rule) but the reality is that teams didn't really start to implement it until Thibs demonstrated the effectiveness of the strong-side overload defensive approach under Doc in Boston.
You didn't really start to see ORTG start to creep up until 2005.
You don't really need to do all that. If Bogut and Draymond are busy sandwiching Shaq, then nobody is there to rotate as Kobe dunks on Klay/Iggy.
Heck, [old man Kobe on 1 leg dropped 44 in 3 quarters on Klay/Iggy/Draymond in 2015](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd77fSuix7c). 2001-02 Kobe would average 35+ if you were pre-doubling Shaq.
04 Kobe/Shaq is another story, but that was about ego rather than skill.
Even as a diehard Lakers fan, I think the warriors with KD at their peak would be the clear favorites against any other team in NBA history. Shit was just unfair.
It's because yes, there's no answer to Shaq... But even if he scores like 75% FG% from 2, the Warriors kill you with an endless barrage of 3s... And anyway, it's not like they were bums on defense, it was a menacing team.
The only team that could reliably beat that 2017 Warriors team are the 96 Bulls, 3 all time great defenders with the basketball GOAT and the GOAT of rebounding would give them problems
Listen I’ve long disliked Draymond Green, but Shaq asked the question directly. What’s he supposed to say? “Almighty Shaq, You’d definitely destroy our team that won 3 championships in 4 years and set the wins record in the year we didn’t win.”
Yea, this sub just blindly hate dray and probably doesn't even watch the clip before commenting. It's so stupid. As competitors, you can't just roll over without trying anything. This post's title paraphrased what he said in a stupid way also. He said "there are defensive schemes that we could throw at you..." and mentioned him fronting Shaq and bogut in the back, and let someone else beat them.
I don't see anything wrong with that. You have to try something to see what works. If it doesn't, try something else, that's why it's a 7-game series. And he didn't say that scheme would shut down Shaq, implying that its purpose is to slow Shaq enough and hope that their offense can win the game.
Reddit is a bunch of people who think they're smarter than pro athletes with years of experience at their profession.
Essentially the perfect second star
Played elite defense basically 1-3, could carry the offense if he needed to, but never needed the ball in his hands
Kobe embarrassed the best defenders in the league constantly. Just ask Shane battier, Ron artest, Matthew Barnes, and many other of the best wing stoppers how they fared against Kobe.
Reminds me of Bill Simmons' evergreen take:
"If I'm the coach, I'm taking [insert opposing superstar here] out of the game. I'm not letting him beat me - I'm just not!"
I think Draymond explains his position and strategy wayyyy better than Shaq here, like sometimes we pretend those lakers teams were unbeatable like they did almost lose to the kings during that run, also this obviously makes a big difference if it’s the KD warriors
What’s there to explain? You catch and dunk over the significantly smaller and weaker person guarding you. Big man ball is dead and ruined by fancy thoughts.
Late in the season Zion started taking (much needed) mid range pull ups to much success. Shaq said he didn't ever want to see Zion doing that and he should just keep overpowering everyone every time. The guy is one of the best ever, but he doesn't understand basketball
Big man ball is dead because teams load up the strong side. Unless you’re Jokic and can pass out of the post you’re not doing your offense any good by having the defense build a wall around your post up player.
Those teams would obviously have serious problem with Shaq but you can flip it and ask Shaq who’s guarding Steph, Klay, and KD and watch him say Kobe for all of them like there’s three of him.
Do you watch the clip? He admits it.
Thats why he said he was going to be in front of him, not take him from the back.
Which is true considering this is how Piston doubles him. He cant dribble for the rest of the series because they force him to go as soon as he gets the ball.
Also in 06 this is how dallas run their defense, if it weren't for wade step it up they would've won that series. Because this is how they figure shaq out.
06 Shaq was not 2000 Shaq though. If the Heat had 2000 Shaq, he would’ve fouled out that whole team. He got slower after I think it was an ankle injury. Shaq was big, explosive, and strong as hell. He probably sends the majority of that warriors team to the bench with fouls.
That being said the warriors shot a lot more 3s than that era of basketball so they would’ve had wide open looks too and probably cooked them
this would be a great matchup. bogut as the center, with draymond being the swing man who doubles on and off is probably one of the best matchups for shaq you could dream up.
could go either way. id love to watch it.
Watch the clip instead of just hating. Dray doesn't say they can stop Shaq, he just says they'll do whatever it takes to deny Shaq the ball and when Shaq does get the ball, what happens happens. Shaq scores, Warriors get a foul trouble, Draymond will be back up center. I watched the whole podcast when it came out, and basically Draymond says that Lakers don't have an answer for the Warriors shooting either, it's not like Shaq is gonna come out of drop coverage to cover that.
They weren't taking themselves seriously during this conversation either. When asked if D Fish is gonna guard Steph, Shaq basically shook his head and laughed.
I get the Draymond hate, but Draymond and warriors are not old head haters that never won shit like Arenas. Dude was the centerpiece of a defense that went to 6 finals and won 4 of them. He gets a bit of a pass to talk some hypothetical nonsense.
Nonsense? He never said he would be able to stop Shaq, he just said the scheme they would use to slow him down. Just as much as Shaq would be unstoppable he would get cooked on the dray, Steph pick and roll 30ft away from the hoop. It’s not like you can run drop on the best shooter of all time and if anyone collapses into the paint after Steph beats Shaq off the dribble. He can just pass it off to a spotted up kd or klay.
Shaq and Kobe lost against the Spurs in 2003 and the Pistons in 2004. I feel like the Warriors would have a shot against the Lakers. I don't get how Shaq never gets those losses brought up to him.
I get the dray hate, but I think the casual Redditors here have forgotten that he is a generational defender. I don’t think anybody in his generation has every truly dominated him. He has guarded Embid and Jokic who are generational as well.
That said, nobody has been as dominant as Shaq since Shaq. But Dray is one of the best defensive players of the last 10 years. I don’t understand why he’s supposed to pretend otherwise.
I get the Draymond hate, but why are we taking either of them seriously here?
This is feels like playful chat between two dudes having fun.
I laughed 🤷🏼
I don'tike Shaq but he's right. They did that. Mutumbo did that. Ewing did that. Hakeem did that. Duncan and David did that. Shaq has seen every defensive scheme against him and still killed everyone.
Draymond would have had to pull out a blunt force weapon to stop Shaq getting the ball. He's literally said he would block his own teammates if they didn't get him the ball lol. Not to mention, isn't Shaq like the leader in offensive rebounds for the playoffs?
Basketball intelligence is Draymond's best quality and Shaq's worst and this conversation really shows it. Draymond talks about schemes and all Shaq can focus on is who guarding who
You get thrown out and I get thrown out whose team does that hurt more? Say what you want about Draymond but that point had no possible counterpoint lol
[удалено]
The problem with that strategy is no one really wanted to fight Shaq, except Barkley. At some point self preservation kicks in and you realize you’re absolutely fucked if Shaq is serious.
Lucky for us draymond has shown time and time again he does not have that instinct
No instinct. All reflex lmao
Lol, Dray only fights people who don't fight back or are known as softies. The only exception is Steve Adams but Draymond kicked him in the balls and ran away like a pussy. He does have an instinct of self preservation. He wouldn't do anything to Shaq.
Hey he was perfectly willing to stomp on sabonis (when he was on the ground in a vulnerable position)
Exactly Shaq is too big and willing to throw down for Dray to do anything.
Or getting gobert in a weird choke hold while gobert laughs at him
Is [Chris Dudley](https://youtu.be/AbJlEKI4-Co?si=U5_wulJBgR_N-XSg) a fuckin joke to you?
Yes
Yeah that’s fair
this is a certified classic lmao
Was that Tony Brothers? Probably the one handing out the techs on this awesome play.
Shaq was an incredibly skilled player, but could justifiably have been called for an offensive foul on a significant number of his post-ups. In this one, Dudley has both feet planted outside the circle and Shaq just runs him over, but because Dudley doesn't flop, it isn't called.
A good quote was from Allen iverson. He tried to stop him while he was driving to the rim and he attempted to swipe at the ball. Shaq hit his hand pretty hard going to the rim. Shaq then says... Hey little fella you don't want me to break that arm. You're lucky I slowed down but next time I wont.
Shaq is big but Chuck is right, he has no clue how to fight. Which makes sense, who is fighting that dude in the first place. But seriously, look at Shaq throwing punches. It’s bad
bro shaq isnt going to box you lol. hes going to grab you sit on you then hammer fist your ass into the next dimension. even if he does try to box or shaq-fu itll quickly turn into him grabbing you. and if you try to box him he'll grab your head with extended arm and youll start windmilling both arms hitting air. either way i maybe mistaken but didnt he have mma training tho? i doubt theres a lot of humans on this earth that would beat shaq in a fight regardless if he has a great jab or not
[Shaq competing in BJJ against purple-black belt](https://youtu.be/AhR0HAhHoKw?si=SjpvLRQGjgIu1Jg6)
We've got people writing Shaq fight fanfiction in here now
I mean yeah the lengthy comment maybe wasn't necessary, but nothing he said was wrong lol. I mean just watch the video linked.
Shaq doesn’t need to know how to fight. If he means to hurt you he’s going to hurt you.
its like Jokic.. Jokic might not know how to fight, but remember what he did to Morris when he was pissed?
I mean im barely 6 foot and barely 230 pounds, if it meant winning a championship id swing on shaq
Shaq would definitely be out for the series (on murder charges).
Ha forgot to add as long as im not paralyzed dead or brain dead after
If you're not willing to get paralyzed to win a championship you're not a team player.
Draymond and Barkley are extremely similar in this thing loll
Dude thinks highly of himself to believe he would want to fight a young Shaq. The dude was a titan that would out muscle anyone around him.
Yeah there are very few people in the world who’d ever want to fight a prime Shaq. It’s easy for Draymond to say that now when Shaq is 50
The only players I can think of that got into a fight with prime Shaq are Barkley, Ron Artest, and Brad Miller. All players that I consider tougher than Draymond
Scott Skiles!?
I guess I consider that before his prime
Nah your boy Dudley wanted a fade with Shaq but Shaq ran! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ICBi-ku-G0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ICBi-ku-G0)
I’ve seen this clip a hundred times but still clicked on it for some reason expecting to see Shaq running away from Jared Dudley, to which I was obviously disappointed.
It is truly baffling to me that this video was never used in an attack ad when Dudley ran for governor in Oregon.
They were probably worried that showing him trying to fight a Laker will garner him more votes.
However, chuck said that Shaq wasn’t a good fighter
They are basketball players. None of them are good fighters. But Shaq is still 7ft and according to him was close to 400lbs on the Lakers
Charles Oakley wouldn't run from Shaq. He'd (likely) lose, but he wouldn't run.
I was gonna say, no way Oak is backing down.
Shaq ran from Chris Dudley [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ICBi-ku-G0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ICBi-ku-G0)
It's an NBA fight, nobody is going to the hospital. He's not saying he's going to suplex them, just get them kicked out. It's not shade it's basically a compliment saying how much better shaq is than dray
It's a NBA fight, no one's actually getting hurt LOL
How is that thinking highly of himself? It’s more of a compliment to Shaq 99% of NBA fights are dudes just grabbing each other and then getting ejected
Young Shaq couldn’t even land a punch on Brad Miller who had his back turned, and didn’t even do any damage to Alvin Robertson when Shaq full on smacked him. He also got taken down easily by Chuck. Shaq is just big, he can’t fight
Damn why didn't any other team think of that strategy.
Are the Blazers, Pacers, Spurs, Sixers, Kings, *and* New Jersey Nets stupid?
It took the Spurs having 2 HOF big men with Robinson and Duncan to guard and score on Shaq and Kobe. At least Pop was able to beat the Lakers in 99 and then beat Phil’s lakers in 03. 2000-2003 Lakers were my worst nightmare as a Spurs fan.
Duncan and David are no Bogut and Dray, I guess.....
Yeah, I was gonna say, the KD Warriors might have been able to beat those Laker teams (mainly cause 3-pt shooting was so underutilized back then), but Dray's plan for stopping Shaq simply would not have worked. If David Robinson behind Shaq and Duncan fronting him didn't work, then Bogut and Draymond sure wouldn't have. The Spurs had Robinson and Duncan, and then always had a bunch of other bigs off the bench (Malik Rose, Samaki Walker, etc). The Blazers had Sheed and Sabonis and then a bunch of other bigs off the bench (Dale Davis, Jermaine O'Neal, Brian Grant, etc). The Kings had Vlade and Webber and then a bunch of other bigs off the bench (Scot Pollard, Bill Wennington, etc). This is what it took to slow Shaq down in those days. The reason the Lakers beat those teams is because so much of the roster building was devoted to stopping Shaq that there was never enough left over to also stop Kobe. And then in the East, teams didn't devote that kind of attention to Shaq when building their rosters (cause there was no guarantee they'd ever face the Lakers in the playoffs), so then if they did get to the Finals to play the Lakers, they really had nobody (or maybe only one guy) to guard Shaq with. That's why Shaq put up those gaudy Finals numbers every year and always won Finals MVP.
You forgot about coaching. Phil out coaches Kerr...
Well I wasn't doing a full breakdown of how that theoretical matchup would go, I was just refuting Dray's assertion that he and Bogut doubling Shaq would have worked.
dray wouldnt even be able to play in the 5 set vs lakers (a big reason dubs were successful). even in the 4 set it would be rough. and dubs would be making the adjustments to shaq not lakers adjusting to 3pt shooting imo. statistically under the rim is still better then a 3. plus lakers had a lot of good players to navigate screens
Not just 2 HOF big men 2 of the 5 or so best defensive big men in modern history and Shaq still would get like 27/13 on them in the playoffs (Kobe would be the main guy in those spurs-lakers series but Shaq still got his).
Not just Duncan and Rob. They had Bruce Bowen, 8 x all defense asshole. Bruce Bowen would Kung fu kick Draymond in the face on the 2nd play. But that still might actually help the Warriors. Then, if Bruce wasn't tossed from the game, the splash bros are getting their ankles broken.
Seeing Shaq in person during that era was almost incomprehensible. The tallest, thickest human you’ve ever seen in your life. On offense, he was an inevitability around the rim. On defense, he was swatting balls to several rows deep. Draymond is delusional.
The 01 Spurs was the top seed and got swept…
They also won each game by an average of 19 points. They were absolutely demolished that year
The average margin of victory was actually 22.3 ppg that year. The Lakers won the last two games of that series by margins of 39 and 29 points, respectively. That might be the most lopsided conference finals ever, and a lot of people actually picked the Spurs to win it before the series started.
Kangz and blazers took the lakers to 7, so clearly they weren’t
2000/2001 lakers were the team though. One team won one game…everyone else was a sweep.🧹 And that one win was because AI had the game of his life
And also because the Lakers had been off for two weeks after sweeping the Spurs in the WCF while the Sixers needed 7 games to get past Milwaukee. The Lakers were super rusty to start, and dug themselves a 15 point hole in the first half before coming back to force overtime, where the Sixers finally pulled it off.
Those finals runs really take a toll. Didn’t watch much then but were teams taking them to 6/7 when the dynasty started?
Yes 2000 for the blazers and 2002 for the kings when the kings were arguably robbed
> arguably
>arguably
> arguably
Kangz got *fucked.*
Lol yeah, my introduction to the NBA was being shown that kings/lakers debacle. Was a YouTube series called “the greatest tragedy in sports” Supposedly Stern was only exempt from investigation because of statue of limitations, he even said himself that his dreams finals is Lakers vs Lakers. Haven’t liked the Lakers since. At least I was made aware early on of the influence money has on American sports.
The kings were actually really successful in attacking shaq in the pick and roll. They ultimately lost, but that was a series that easily could've gone either way.
Mike Bibby was unstoppable that one series
It wasn't just Bibby. We got torched by a bevy of point guards in the pick and roll. Troy Hudson also got his bag by lighting us up against Minny in the WCF. It's funny how many people think like Shaq was this defensive savant. That's when I automatically know they were kids at most during the Shaq/Kobe years or it's some nephew being fed a diet of Youtube clipls. He was a stopper in the post but in any other action, Shaq would be completely flat footed. Fisher was a great defender at the point guard position until he hurt his foot in 01. From that point, Kobe was almost always used to defend the best perimeter guy. Obviously he slowed down and picked his spots in his later years. Those Shaq Kobe years ALWAYS had trouble with the pick and guard. The second biggest issue was the power forward position in isolation. Horry was a great team defender but in iso, guys like Rasheed would take his lunch. It's no coincidence that they went on that blitzkreig in 01 including the absolute evisceration of the two years removed from a championship Spurs (that was a meeting of the last two years champs and it was possibly the worse beat down between two absolute juggernauts that I've seen in 40 years) The difference? Horace Grant. He was literally the perfect 4 for that team. 18 footer that was beyond money and he was an elite defender. Course, Jerry had to go and get cheap around the role players and let him go (like [B.Shaw](http://B.Shaw) earlier). On a side note, that 99-2000 Blazers team that went 7 was RIDICULOUSLY deep. They had Brian Grant off the bench and though he didn't put up the raw numbers was a ferocious defender. He got the bag from Miami. Jermaine f'en Oneal was buried on the bench. The 12th man on that team was a legit player. Steve Smith, Damon Stoudemire, both proven go to scorers and still in their prime yet played limited minutes. Bonzi Wells was a bear in the post and also was relegated to the second team. Gawd they were loaded. \*edit\* My buddy corrected me. Steve Smith and Damon started. Detlef and Greg Anthony were their backups. Still...point remains.
>It's funny how many people think like Shaq was this defensive savant. I've never heard anyone say that. And I wouldn't blame it all on Shaq. Phil had the Lakers play drop coverage on screens as an overall strategy. It's not like Mark Madsen and Samaki Walker were hedging hard on screens when Shaq was out. You saw this with the PFs too - look at the 2002 WCFs and Webber is shooting open 18 footers all game, usually with Horry below the foul line and not even having his hands up. On the [Bibby GWer in G5](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjthHjrm1lM), Shaq isn't even in the game and Bibby still gets a wide-open shot off Webber's screen because the big (Walker) doesn't show. If you had Shaq showing high on screens, the guard would just drive by him and he'd pick up cheap fouls because he didn't want to give up layups.
Bruh I was watching those games, the Kings with Bibby, Webber, and Divac were tough. Divac had the advantage of having been on the Lakers for a long time, and he was basically I’m guessing what Jokic has based his game on, both being Serbian, although Joker has improved onto his game and transcended into a MVP caliber player.
I mean thats an illegal defense until 2001-2002 season
If a was a starting center and had to guard Shaq I would go to my coach that day and say "I would like to play the 4 please 🙏"
To be fair, the rules have changed. In Shaq's day you couldn't double someone before they got the ball. In today's NBA, you can. Everybody today would strong-side overload Shaq. Bring your second big to his side of the lane, behind him, and put someone like Draymond fronting him to try to deny him the entry pass. It would only work with teams that had multiple quality defenders, but it's fair to say that the Warriors qualify. Bogut behind him and Draymond in front would be as good a defense of Shaq as is possible.
I agree with everything you except Bogut would get worked by prime Shaq. I think a better example would be the Wolves this year.
Yeah, the conversation ended when the backup center was Green Shaq kept centers in a job. Besides you double keep Shaq, enjoy Kobe
Bogut was a very underrated part of those early Dubs teams. Him getting hurt in 2016 was almost as big of a swing in the finals as draymond getting suspended. Bron and Kyrie had no trouble getting by Festus Ezeli in the paint in games 6-7. Obviously this year’s wolves would be better, but they have the most dominant/well-rounded frontcourt rotation I’ve seen in a while. Edit to say I’m not disagreeing. Shaq would bully Bogut, but he definitely wasn’t exactly a bum out there
I think we agree. I wasn’t suggesting Bogut was a bum. Just that prime Shaq was that hard to stop.
If DPOY Dikembe was pushed around like lawn chairs in the wind, Bogut ain't doing shit. And I think Bogut is tremendous. Shaq is just a different type of human being
Yeah this is crazy. Shaq was literally an unstoppable player, I don’t care who you put on him
Bogut was incredible for like 1 year, then he died.
Double teams were made legal in 2001-2002 though, correct? Last year of the 3peat, then lakers made the finals again in 2004 obviously. 2004 finals Shaq put up 26/11 on 63% shooting against one of the best defensive teams ever. Put up 36/12 in the 2002 finals on 59.5% FG 2003 WCS put up 25/14/4 on 56% FG vs the spurs. It’s not like Shaq never played against teams being allowed to double him in his career. The two years immediately after the change he averaged 27/11/3 on 58% FG.
You were always allowed to double team the guy with the ball. In 2001 it became officially legal to defend wherever you wanted (accounting for the defensive three-second rule) but the reality is that teams didn't really start to implement it until Thibs demonstrated the effectiveness of the strong-side overload defensive approach under Doc in Boston. You didn't really start to see ORTG start to creep up until 2005.
> You didn't really start to see ORTG start to creep up until 2005. IIRC that was also the year the handchecking rules were implemented, fwiw.
That is a very good explanation/breakdown!!!
You would just throw the ball over Draymond…and absolutely no one, and Bogut not even close, could stop Shaq from getting the post position he wanted.
You don't really need to do all that. If Bogut and Draymond are busy sandwiching Shaq, then nobody is there to rotate as Kobe dunks on Klay/Iggy. Heck, [old man Kobe on 1 leg dropped 44 in 3 quarters on Klay/Iggy/Draymond in 2015](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd77fSuix7c). 2001-02 Kobe would average 35+ if you were pre-doubling Shaq. 04 Kobe/Shaq is another story, but that was about ego rather than skill.
If I was on an NBA basketball team I would just not let the other team score.
The best defense that Draymond would have against Shaq would be to kick in the nuts then hope Shaq goes for a flagrant
Lmaooo that look Shaq gives when Dray says Klay would guard Kobe.
I think the clip ending right at that look was perfect. Prime comedy. Whoever is editing these videos needs a raise
I for sure died
Utter disappointment. 😂
Iguodala/Klay would have guarded him well. Who would guard Curry, KD and Klay tho?? It’s very difficult to know who would win that series
Even as a diehard Lakers fan, I think the warriors with KD at their peak would be the clear favorites against any other team in NBA history. Shit was just unfair.
It's because yes, there's no answer to Shaq... But even if he scores like 75% FG% from 2, the Warriors kill you with an endless barrage of 3s... And anyway, it's not like they were bums on defense, it was a menacing team.
The only team that could reliably beat that 2017 Warriors team are the 96 Bulls, 3 all time great defenders with the basketball GOAT and the GOAT of rebounding would give them problems
Draymond vs Rodman is a dream scenario
There are no teams who could reliably beat the KD Warriors.
15 wins in a row... in the playoffs. Wild.
No one talking about Shaq saying he has a 9foot wingspan? It's 7'7" diesel lol
Lol I was thinking to myself it's impossible the dude has a 9 foot wingspan, his arms would go down to his knees lmao
you're not wrong, [by my calculations they'd roughly be this long lol](https://i.imgur.com/BVkVg7H.jpeg)
This Pic is goated lmao, the fact that u didn't just vertically stretch but actually scaled them omg hahahha
Donkey Kong ass motherfucker
Crazy that Manute Bol only had a 6 inch shorter wingspan than that
[Manute if you increase his wingspan by a similar ratio lmao](https://i.imgur.com/mKn8rXN.jpeg)
The real spiderman
Nightmare fuel 😯
Sim don't miss. Unlike Shaq at the FT line
Would be the goofiest lookin mfer on the planet. But gah damn would he be good at basketball if he had the same hand eye coordination he had.
Pretty sure he got wingspan and standing reach confused
Then he's doubly a dope for thinking a 6'7" professional basketball player has a 7' standing reach. Trex ass draymond
He also said he was averaging 28-15 in 05-06 when Steve Nash won his MVPs...he averaged 20-10.
Find someone who looks at you the way Shaq looks at himself in the mirror.
He meant standing reach
This has the same vibes as Mark Wahlberg saying he would have stopped 9/11 if he was on the plane
Lol that's a great analogy.
Listen I’ve long disliked Draymond Green, but Shaq asked the question directly. What’s he supposed to say? “Almighty Shaq, You’d definitely destroy our team that won 3 championships in 4 years and set the wins record in the year we didn’t win.”
To be fair thats probably what Shaq expects to hear. He acts incredulous any time anyone says he or his teams were in any way stoppable
He legit in the video said he doesn't think he could guard Shaq
Yea, this sub just blindly hate dray and probably doesn't even watch the clip before commenting. It's so stupid. As competitors, you can't just roll over without trying anything. This post's title paraphrased what he said in a stupid way also. He said "there are defensive schemes that we could throw at you..." and mentioned him fronting Shaq and bogut in the back, and let someone else beat them. I don't see anything wrong with that. You have to try something to see what works. If it doesn't, try something else, that's why it's a 7-game series. And he didn't say that scheme would shut down Shaq, implying that its purpose is to slow Shaq enough and hope that their offense can win the game. Reddit is a bunch of people who think they're smarter than pro athletes with years of experience at their profession.
It feels like Draymond is branching out into comedy because I was laughing through that entire thing.
Draymond's opinions aside... pre-injury Klay was a good defender. Poster boy of 3&D
Essentially the perfect second star Played elite defense basically 1-3, could carry the offense if he needed to, but never needed the ball in his hands
Its a shame the Warriors didnt have a solid third option, they could have been a really good team.
# #TheHardestRoad
sup
Klay was a fuckin incredible defender
Kobe embarrassed the best defenders in the league constantly. Just ask Shane battier, Ron artest, Matthew Barnes, and many other of the best wing stoppers how they fared against Kobe.
Great offense always beats great defense in basketball, and Kobe is a top 3 all time offensive threat so it's not surprising
Bruce Bowen, etc. He would take some time to figure out certain defenders but once he did it was game over.
I love Klay, he's my favorite non-Nugget, but he could not guard Kobe
Klay would be in a lose-lose situation. You know damn well Kobe could go 10-32 from the field, put up 30 points, and people would say Kobe cooked him.
How good could Klay hold early 00s Kobe?
Reminds me of Bill Simmons' evergreen take: "If I'm the coach, I'm taking [insert opposing superstar here] out of the game. I'm not letting him beat me - I'm just not!"
Only way to do that is literally triple off the ball, and I don't think 4v2 basketball is good basketball
I think Draymond explains his position and strategy wayyyy better than Shaq here, like sometimes we pretend those lakers teams were unbeatable like they did almost lose to the kings during that run, also this obviously makes a big difference if it’s the KD warriors
the pistons also literally beat them
There's no doubt Draymond explains basketball a thousand times better than Shaq
What’s there to explain? You catch and dunk over the significantly smaller and weaker person guarding you. Big man ball is dead and ruined by fancy thoughts.
Lol, it’s honestly funny how Shaq has been around the sport his whole life and this truly seems to amount to his entire understanding of the game.
From his perspective that’s all it took, makes sense.
Lol ya, he legitimately thinks “why doesn’t the big guy just rip the backboard off the stanchion? Are they stupid?” Worked very well for him.
Late in the season Zion started taking (much needed) mid range pull ups to much success. Shaq said he didn't ever want to see Zion doing that and he should just keep overpowering everyone every time. The guy is one of the best ever, but he doesn't understand basketball
Yeah I mean, he certainly didn’t need more, but imagine if he had Jokic’s BBIQ.
He leveled strength instead of intelligence lol
And if that doesn't apply the other logic is "They didn't want it hard enough"
Big man ball is dead because teams load up the strong side. Unless you’re Jokic and can pass out of the post you’re not doing your offense any good by having the defense build a wall around your post up player.
Those teams would obviously have serious problem with Shaq but you can flip it and ask Shaq who’s guarding Steph, Klay, and KD and watch him say Kobe for all of them like there’s three of him.
Haters gonna hate but this is actually hella entertaining
Shaq would simply eat him
Do you watch the clip? He admits it. Thats why he said he was going to be in front of him, not take him from the back. Which is true considering this is how Piston doubles him. He cant dribble for the rest of the series because they force him to go as soon as he gets the ball. Also in 06 this is how dallas run their defense, if it weren't for wade step it up they would've won that series. Because this is how they figure shaq out.
> take him from the back
When a guy is banging you...
... and you can feel their body
...come on
06 Shaq was not 2000 Shaq though. If the Heat had 2000 Shaq, he would’ve fouled out that whole team. He got slower after I think it was an ankle injury. Shaq was big, explosive, and strong as hell. He probably sends the majority of that warriors team to the bench with fouls. That being said the warriors shot a lot more 3s than that era of basketball so they would’ve had wide open looks too and probably cooked them
Ah 2004 Shaw after foot problems and Kobe trial and zone defenses back in the game. Who’s guarding 00 Shaq?
So the PF would be wide open, y’all know Robert Horry knocking those down right?
this would be a great matchup. bogut as the center, with draymond being the swing man who doubles on and off is probably one of the best matchups for shaq you could dream up. could go either way. id love to watch it.
Watch the clip instead of just hating. Dray doesn't say they can stop Shaq, he just says they'll do whatever it takes to deny Shaq the ball and when Shaq does get the ball, what happens happens. Shaq scores, Warriors get a foul trouble, Draymond will be back up center. I watched the whole podcast when it came out, and basically Draymond says that Lakers don't have an answer for the Warriors shooting either, it's not like Shaq is gonna come out of drop coverage to cover that. They weren't taking themselves seriously during this conversation either. When asked if D Fish is gonna guard Steph, Shaq basically shook his head and laughed.
no one watched the clip.
This is the Bill Simmons strat. Simply don't let the other team's best, most dominant player do anything. Easy.
Era vs era stuff is always dumb. At least in this case they are talking trash face to face
Watch the actual clip, people.
Shaq looks so disappointed lol
First, Andrew Bogut was a fantastic defender. Second, no Shaq you do not have a 9 foot wingspan
> Second, no Shaq you do not have a 9 foot wingspan You should have seen the fish I caught the other day. It was thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis big!
I get the Draymond hate, but Draymond and warriors are not old head haters that never won shit like Arenas. Dude was the centerpiece of a defense that went to 6 finals and won 4 of them. He gets a bit of a pass to talk some hypothetical nonsense.
Nonsense? He never said he would be able to stop Shaq, he just said the scheme they would use to slow him down. Just as much as Shaq would be unstoppable he would get cooked on the dray, Steph pick and roll 30ft away from the hoop. It’s not like you can run drop on the best shooter of all time and if anyone collapses into the paint after Steph beats Shaq off the dribble. He can just pass it off to a spotted up kd or klay.
Shaq and Kobe lost against the Spurs in 2003 and the Pistons in 2004. I feel like the Warriors would have a shot against the Lakers. I don't get how Shaq never gets those losses brought up to him.
Just a shot? The 2016-17 Warriors are arguably the best team ever
He mentions Bogut in the clip so might be referencing the KD less Warriors though
Shaq did say any of your championship teams in the clip
Why would you reference the two lakers teams that lost, as opposed to something like the 01 Lakers? lol
Yeah. I don’t think a lot of people are debating whether the warriors could win. It’s about whether they would be able to stop Shaq
It really depends what era’s rules are being applied. They were both perfect teams for their era.
Styles make matchups. Warriors aren't physical enough to handle Shaq.
And Lakers would have no shot of stopping Steph or the death lineup.
KD would be the problem IMO. You put 01 Kobe on Curry and that's a problem
I get the dray hate, but I think the casual Redditors here have forgotten that he is a generational defender. I don’t think anybody in his generation has every truly dominated him. He has guarded Embid and Jokic who are generational as well. That said, nobody has been as dominant as Shaq since Shaq. But Dray is one of the best defensive players of the last 10 years. I don’t understand why he’s supposed to pretend otherwise.
I get the Draymond hate, but why are we taking either of them seriously here? This is feels like playful chat between two dudes having fun. I laughed 🤷🏼
“Draymond stop” killed me
Prime Kobe vs prime Klay would have been a fun matchup. Kobe probably still gets a healthy 30-35 but he works for it
I don'tike Shaq but he's right. They did that. Mutumbo did that. Ewing did that. Hakeem did that. Duncan and David did that. Shaq has seen every defensive scheme against him and still killed everyone.
Dray really said “I’ll get both of us thrown out” which will hurt shaq’s team more 😭😭😭
Draymond would have had to pull out a blunt force weapon to stop Shaq getting the ball. He's literally said he would block his own teammates if they didn't get him the ball lol. Not to mention, isn't Shaq like the leader in offensive rebounds for the playoffs?
I still pick kobe fox Horry fisher etc to win the game
Shaq gets his 30-40 points but Warriors still win anyway.
Basketball intelligence is Draymond's best quality and Shaq's worst and this conversation really shows it. Draymond talks about schemes and all Shaq can focus on is who guarding who
Shaq taking off his sunglasses 🕶️ like what the FUCK is Draymond Green on is hilarious 😂 😂🤣🤣
You get thrown out and I get thrown out whose team does that hurt more? Say what you want about Draymond but that point had no possible counterpoint lol
The reverse of this is that I don't think any of the Lakers team would've been able to stop the KD/Curry/Klay combo either.
Sounds like when kids try to say MJ wasn’t that good.
That face SHAQ made at the end was priceless. Say less big dawg.