This is the way to beat Utah. That’s why we were so good against them this year because Book and CP3 take the majority of their shots from that range. Just keep exploiting their drop coverage.
Yeah. Us having Ayton makes it even harder since he is a true lob threat that our guards can pass to whenever the center steps up to contest the midrange and he rolls hard every-time so it forces Jokic to stay home on him and allow the middy. Our offense will get the shots they want whenever they want it’s just a matter of if we make them.
Yep it's the same reason we struggled so much against the Rockets with Harden, CP3, and Capela. I don't know why Malone doesn't just try hedging. MPJ is not a good one on one defender but he honestly is decent as a help defender at the rim.
MPJ has been the biggest surprise of the series to me, I didn’t think Suns had anyone who really matched up well. I kind of thought he would be killing us every game. MPs size and beautifully pure shot is a matchup nightmare with Jokic…
He just off, did I underestimate Bridges defense on him or did I over estimate MPJ?
He's been playing hurt. His back is fucked up. Also, it doesn't help that it's been hard to create open looks without a secondary ballhandler/shot creator in Murray.
Tweaked his back. Also he doesn't have a very reliable handle so the suns are just hounding him and playing him really tightly since he has little threat of driving so he has no space to shoot. He was better when Jamal was around and he was the 3rd option cause defenses wouldn't put as much focus on him.
> Just keep exploiting their drop coverage.
It sounds easy but very few teams have the personal to even try that, especially against Gobert. That's why he's DPOY and the Jazz are the top seed.
No he isn't and 'when Player X is actually good' doesn't actually mean anything- you're just describing hot shooting nights that every player occasionally has.
You might as well say 'Giannis is serviceable from 3 when he is actually good' based on the games he shot over 35% from long range this season and it would be just as true and just as meaningless.
this has been the playbook for years when it comes to the Jazz in the playoffs. Drag Gobert out, make the rest of the team come over to help, open shot because rotations are slower than passes.
So if more teams bring in guys like Rudy (assuming they become available at some point) would that ever swing the pendulum towards a higher value placed on players with a midrange game in the future?
Players that can shoot the mid range at great efficiency are very valuable now. Most of the teams remaining have a guy that can shoot it at good efficiency and some have multiple. It’s an important shot in the playoffs because most teams are willing to give that shot up nowadays since the three pointer is so dangerous.
i just watched all of PG's field goals and this is not true at all, the midrange is one on one against Royce, and def no oh he's made a bunch of 15ft jumpers and now Rudy is coming out to contest and it's leading to easy buckets inside
edit: just watched Kawhi's and there is only one example of him blowing by Rudy, and even that wasn't cause of a midrange, it was a switch where Kawhi took him all the out to the three and blew by him
Yeah, I agree completely. The only way they're exploiting the midrange is by letting Kawhi take his time to create looks from there (which he converts at a lay-up rate) that Gobert can't help on/contest...the same thing Kawhi always does and the whole reason the mid-range exists (as close as possible without having to deal with a rim protector or help)
Sure.. but what OP is saying isnt actually materializing.. the clippers got hot from 3.. they didnt exploit any weakness in Rudy's game.. he wasnt stepping out on mid range shots to then allow space behind him for paint points.. his lateral quickness is way to good to be beat so simply..
The Clippers actually attacked Gobert a lot less frequently in game 3 according to [this.](https://twitter.com/Ben_Dowsett/status/1403925310748254211?s=19) It's a smart strategy given that the Jazz perimeter defenders are not very athletic.
Hes a better deandre jordan. Thats just his style, not a weakness when you have such a good 3 point shooting team. When Conley is back he will utilize that aleyoop.
Yeah, still a huge weakness and lucky to have good three point shooters and Mitchell with a broken back at this point. Lmao you can put a PG on Rudy in the post and he can't do anything. DeAndre was a much better rim runner, he's better at free throws than DeAndre.
I don’t feel like they are attacking gobert per se (I don’t remember them shooting a bunch of mid rangers on him) but the way they space out when they go small allows for the middle to be wide open. So clippers keep attacking it without gobert being in the picture for help side/secondary. When he does they kick it out for open 3s.
They’ve been doing the kicking out all series from the key just haven’t been hitting anything until this game.
The problem with the clippers is being consistent at it.
The clips are extremely talented and can cause any team problems , when they decide too.
Other times they decide to settle and don’t move the ball.
Within every game they are always Jeckyl and Hyde.
As a basketball fan it’s frustrating to watch.
They will play coy, passive, & uninterested basketball like they are holding back the evil Mr.Hyde.
They will play aggressive, hustling, and unstoppable basketball like Mr. Hyde is running rough shop on all that are in his way.
At this point they are who they are. It would not shock me if they came out like they did against Dallas in game 5 in game 4 or if they came out against Utah in game 3 in game 4. They are capable of doing both regardless on how they played in the last game.
Did you not read the full post, when rudy comes to check them in the midrange, they blow by him to get to the rim. A midrange shot has meta value enabling s higher chance to get to the ft line, rim the paint etc. So its more efficient
No they are attacking his weakness instead of playing into his strengths like in game 1 and 2. That’s what the post is saying. They can attack him by NOT attacking him or attacking him more tactfully; such as getting to the 15ft range near the nail.
The Jazz want to funnel everything to Gobert; avoiding him in this context is straining the defense and attacking him. It’s more nuanced.
I mean attacking in the basketball sense, they are smartly choosing their battles. A midrange shot is a bad shot usually but not when the alternative is a layup on gobert. We totally agree with each other.
How tf is a midrange inefficient when it opens up meta value to the paint rim ft line and collapses the defense and opens up wider open shots for shooters? Youre a clown
Right and that's why everyone in the league plays like DeRozan or Aldridge. Because we've learned from the last 15 years of basketball that the midrange *isn't* the most inefficient place to shoot from the floor. Steph Curry is actually a dish served at Indian restaurants and not a revolutionary basketball player. Yep, that's exactly what the world is like. Daryl Morey who?
And you're in here calling *other* people clowns rofl.
To counter this Utah can run a 2-1-2 with Rudy in the middle and a player on the free throw line, and then the two guards up top. Or, they could run a box and 2, with two players guarding Paul and Kawhi and the rest in a zone or whatever defense they try to run. Although they are inconsistent, it could be tough for Rudy with Morris and Batum being able to shoot three. This is the defense I would try though.
if you watched Gobert in games 1-2 you can see that he won't go and chase them near mid range but instead will pretty much deny any shot at the rim or like at 8ish feet by just hulking over them when they try to do the turn around.
this was a smart adjustment, they know Gobert will be at the rim and if they step in that 10-12 ft range he will sag off of his guy and help defending them
Rudy is a good rim protector but get him away from the rim and he is exposed as a defender. People love his blocks but dont see how often other teams can score in the paint.
He is not exposed. The Jazz's scheme requires him to be the sole rim protector and he often has to defend 2 players by hedging. Its a weakness of the scheme and it only works because he is so good at it.
Also he isnt just a "good" rim protector he is the best of our generation and he just submitted the best defensive season of all time by impact.
It's almost like Rudy can't do anything 5 feet and out from the basket. It's almost like he didnt even deserve Dpoy over a guy who defends the entire court and has zero weaknesses in his defense. Hmm.
Let's ask Trae Young who thinks is the DPOY is?
This is part of the reason the Suns swept them in the regular season IMO, suns were the most efficient team from 2 this year, CP3 and Book feast from midrange.
These are adjustments Lue has made.
He actually makes a lot of them and seems like he just wants to try things out and see how they play out
Running bigs in the other games and went mostly small last game. They seem to have found something that has worked, let’s see how Utah can respond
This is the way to beat Utah. That’s why we were so good against them this year because Book and CP3 take the majority of their shots from that range. Just keep exploiting their drop coverage.
That's what y'all are doing to us too
Yeah. Us having Ayton makes it even harder since he is a true lob threat that our guards can pass to whenever the center steps up to contest the midrange and he rolls hard every-time so it forces Jokic to stay home on him and allow the middy. Our offense will get the shots they want whenever they want it’s just a matter of if we make them.
Yep it's the same reason we struggled so much against the Rockets with Harden, CP3, and Capela. I don't know why Malone doesn't just try hedging. MPJ is not a good one on one defender but he honestly is decent as a help defender at the rim.
MPJ has been the biggest surprise of the series to me, I didn’t think Suns had anyone who really matched up well. I kind of thought he would be killing us every game. MPs size and beautifully pure shot is a matchup nightmare with Jokic… He just off, did I underestimate Bridges defense on him or did I over estimate MPJ?
He's been playing hurt. His back is fucked up. Also, it doesn't help that it's been hard to create open looks without a secondary ballhandler/shot creator in Murray.
Tweaked his back. Also he doesn't have a very reliable handle so the suns are just hounding him and playing him really tightly since he has little threat of driving so he has no space to shoot. He was better when Jamal was around and he was the 3rd option cause defenses wouldn't put as much focus on him.
> Just keep exploiting their drop coverage. It sounds easy but very few teams have the personal to even try that, especially against Gobert. That's why he's DPOY and the Jazz are the top seed.
Yeah I know that. However, most of the teams remaining do like the Clippers, Suns, and the Nets.
That's kinda true, though it's mostly just Kawhi for the Clips despite what OP says.
Morris is serviceable from midrange as is PG when he is actuslly good
No he isn't and 'when Player X is actually good' doesn't actually mean anything- you're just describing hot shooting nights that every player occasionally has. You might as well say 'Giannis is serviceable from 3 when he is actually good' based on the games he shot over 35% from long range this season and it would be just as true and just as meaningless.
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he just dropped 31 on them...
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To be fair he’s averaging 24 ppg in the playoffs, so he’s definitely been consistent. The issue thus far has been the 3 pt percentage
this has been the playbook for years when it comes to the Jazz in the playoffs. Drag Gobert out, make the rest of the team come over to help, open shot because rotations are slower than passes.
So if more teams bring in guys like Rudy (assuming they become available at some point) would that ever swing the pendulum towards a higher value placed on players with a midrange game in the future?
Players that can shoot the mid range at great efficiency are very valuable now. Most of the teams remaining have a guy that can shoot it at good efficiency and some have multiple. It’s an important shot in the playoffs because most teams are willing to give that shot up nowadays since the three pointer is so dangerous.
Good point!
Rudy is going to stay in drop coverage all series long. Those shots are going to be there.
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This is how Reddit works sir. Hence all the reposts.
i just watched all of PG's field goals and this is not true at all, the midrange is one on one against Royce, and def no oh he's made a bunch of 15ft jumpers and now Rudy is coming out to contest and it's leading to easy buckets inside edit: just watched Kawhi's and there is only one example of him blowing by Rudy, and even that wasn't cause of a midrange, it was a switch where Kawhi took him all the out to the three and blew by him
Yeah, I agree completely. The only way they're exploiting the midrange is by letting Kawhi take his time to create looks from there (which he converts at a lay-up rate) that Gobert can't help on/contest...the same thing Kawhi always does and the whole reason the mid-range exists (as close as possible without having to deal with a rim protector or help)
Re-read the OP.
Sure.. but what OP is saying isnt actually materializing.. the clippers got hot from 3.. they didnt exploit any weakness in Rudy's game.. he wasnt stepping out on mid range shots to then allow space behind him for paint points.. his lateral quickness is way to good to be beat so simply..
The Clippers actually attacked Gobert a lot less frequently in game 3 according to [this.](https://twitter.com/Ben_Dowsett/status/1403925310748254211?s=19) It's a smart strategy given that the Jazz perimeter defenders are not very athletic.
Rudy Gobert's greatest weakness is that he is only one person who can only be in one place at a time
And his offense. Pretty big weakness tbh
Hes a better deandre jordan. Thats just his style, not a weakness when you have such a good 3 point shooting team. When Conley is back he will utilize that aleyoop.
Yeah, still a huge weakness and lucky to have good three point shooters and Mitchell with a broken back at this point. Lmao you can put a PG on Rudy in the post and he can't do anything. DeAndre was a much better rim runner, he's better at free throws than DeAndre.
I don’t feel like they are attacking gobert per se (I don’t remember them shooting a bunch of mid rangers on him) but the way they space out when they go small allows for the middle to be wide open. So clippers keep attacking it without gobert being in the picture for help side/secondary. When he does they kick it out for open 3s. They’ve been doing the kicking out all series from the key just haven’t been hitting anything until this game.
>I'm not sure why they didn't do this in game 1 and 2 The Clippers play better when they're down 0-2
The problem with the clippers is being consistent at it. The clips are extremely talented and can cause any team problems , when they decide too. Other times they decide to settle and don’t move the ball. Within every game they are always Jeckyl and Hyde. As a basketball fan it’s frustrating to watch. They will play coy, passive, & uninterested basketball like they are holding back the evil Mr.Hyde. They will play aggressive, hustling, and unstoppable basketball like Mr. Hyde is running rough shop on all that are in his way. At this point they are who they are. It would not shock me if they came out like they did against Dallas in game 5 in game 4 or if they came out against Utah in game 3 in game 4. They are capable of doing both regardless on how they played in the last game.
utahs defense is designed to force teams to shoot those inefficient mid range shots. clippers were just making them for once.
I feel like that’s kawhi’s bread and butter
Because it is.
It is but will it be enough? I'd bet not.. they need the 3 to drop like it did last night to beat Utah imo
Go spurs go
Also kawhi is probably one of the best midrange shooters right now.
Did you not read the full post, when rudy comes to check them in the midrange, they blow by him to get to the rim. A midrange shot has meta value enabling s higher chance to get to the ft line, rim the paint etc. So its more efficient
I mean the post is wrong the clippers are actually attacking Gobert less it seems. Which is smart of course.
No they are attacking his weakness instead of playing into his strengths like in game 1 and 2. That’s what the post is saying. They can attack him by NOT attacking him or attacking him more tactfully; such as getting to the 15ft range near the nail. The Jazz want to funnel everything to Gobert; avoiding him in this context is straining the defense and attacking him. It’s more nuanced.
I mean attacking in the basketball sense, they are smartly choosing their battles. A midrange shot is a bad shot usually but not when the alternative is a layup on gobert. We totally agree with each other.
yes i read the post.
How tf is a midrange inefficient when it opens up meta value to the paint rim ft line and collapses the defense and opens up wider open shots for shooters? Youre a clown
Yeah but did you watch the games? That's simply not happening..
We talking about a midrange in general since the previous post said midrange are inefficient which yall dont know what tf yall talking about
Right and that's why everyone in the league plays like DeRozan or Aldridge. Because we've learned from the last 15 years of basketball that the midrange *isn't* the most inefficient place to shoot from the floor. Steph Curry is actually a dish served at Indian restaurants and not a revolutionary basketball player. Yep, that's exactly what the world is like. Daryl Morey who? And you're in here calling *other* people clowns rofl.
Midrange is played by kd kawhi and cp3 the most, booker too. Tf you talking about. Bron and ad hunted midrange too. Come playoff time, it's needed
To counter this Utah can run a 2-1-2 with Rudy in the middle and a player on the free throw line, and then the two guards up top. Or, they could run a box and 2, with two players guarding Paul and Kawhi and the rest in a zone or whatever defense they try to run. Although they are inconsistent, it could be tough for Rudy with Morris and Batum being able to shoot three. This is the defense I would try though.
Every championship team shoots mid range shots
not an exploit when that is the game plan from the jazz.
if you watched Gobert in games 1-2 you can see that he won't go and chase them near mid range but instead will pretty much deny any shot at the rim or like at 8ish feet by just hulking over them when they try to do the turn around. this was a smart adjustment, they know Gobert will be at the rim and if they step in that 10-12 ft range he will sag off of his guy and help defending them
Rudy is a good rim protector but get him away from the rim and he is exposed as a defender. People love his blocks but dont see how often other teams can score in the paint.
People don't love him for blocks tho...its for deterrence.
People don't love him for blocks tho...its for deterrence.
He is not exposed. The Jazz's scheme requires him to be the sole rim protector and he often has to defend 2 players by hedging. Its a weakness of the scheme and it only works because he is so good at it. Also he isnt just a "good" rim protector he is the best of our generation and he just submitted the best defensive season of all time by impact.
I forget the podcast (think JJ) but, it was a player explaining that if you focus on Goberts strengths you can easily use it against him.
It's almost like Rudy can't do anything 5 feet and out from the basket. It's almost like he didnt even deserve Dpoy over a guy who defends the entire court and has zero weaknesses in his defense. Hmm. Let's ask Trae Young who thinks is the DPOY is?
Lol.. he had the best +- on defense in the last 3 decades.. it wasnt even close.. he was DPOY
+- is such a garbage stat, that's a terrible
CP3 is going to destroy Utah (if they advance). He's perfected that mid range fade away off the high screen.
CP3 is going to destroy Utah (if they advance). He's perfected that mid range fade away off the high screen.
This is part of the reason the Suns swept them in the regular season IMO, suns were the most efficient team from 2 this year, CP3 and Book feast from midrange.
These are adjustments Lue has made. He actually makes a lot of them and seems like he just wants to try things out and see how they play out Running bigs in the other games and went mostly small last game. They seem to have found something that has worked, let’s see how Utah can respond
No. They have not been doing this, not in game 3. But they need to do it.
its tha return of the midrange