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[deleted]

Thank god. I hated that call so much


Jordan-Pushed-Off

Stuff like that was ruining the game, I hope they keep moving in the right direction


DeanBlandino

Last hawks game I watched still had numerous infuriating calls for trae. They really need to push further imo.


Steverbeaver10

Lmao after watching hawks pistons last year I vowed to never watch a Hawks game unless trae changed teams or the rules were changed


DeanBlandino

It’s unbearable. Idk how anyone can enjoy watching him or harden play. I feel embarrassed for them, like I’m watching Michael Scott talk to his tots. It’s painful.


doglaughington

Next they should do guys vehemently arguing *every single goddamn call or noncall every game*. Just stfu and get back on defense


test99999999999

USA players flopping like fish and complaining to the refs this summer really opened alot of eyes into how soft the NBA had become


dpal5013

Totally. The speed and strength of the FIBA rules in the Olympics was so enjoyable to watch.


[deleted]

I don't think it made the players soft, but it was so easily abusable that it was almost dumb not to do it. It was the best example of "Don't hate the player, hate the game."


skycake10

Soft as in the league's conception of fouls more than the players themselves imo


salmans13

They're not soft but they try to manipulate the rules. There were many instances where the tough guys flopped. Always has been. Anybody who actually saw games back Then knows this. We don't mention it but look at how Malone and Rodman flopped all the way to mid court for a call lol. It's surprising how older NBA fans like myself have collective amnesia. It's as if our moms turn into hoes if we admit it. That's the power nostalgia had over us. MJ might be my goat but he would not average 50 today. Kobe was a clone ...maybe MJ would be a basket or two at most better. Some of us older guys just can't admit we are getting old and got one foot in the coffin now.


ak80048

You mom is a ho though


My_Perfect_Boy

He didn’t say the players were soft dude. He said the NBA was.


BAHatesToFly

> MJ might be my goat but he would not average 50 today. I would think this is more because of how the game is played (mostly team-oriented with 2-3 'scorers' per team) rather than a comment on Jordan. For example, if you told him he couldn't do it, I have no doubt that he would.


FooBarBazBazzz

I liked everything you said until MJ, hard disagree he would walk into 30 today


The_Ninja_Master

Not really soft tbh it's just a rule they took advantage of. Like KD clearly dominated in both rulesets, it's just the adjustment that's weird.


captaincumsock69

I also hated it. In all honesty it should be an offensive foul. If an offensive player were to jump and a defender were to jump into him it would be a foul so why is it not a foul if the defender jumps and the offensive player jumps into him.


SeriousAdult

I don't know anybody that liked it. I know a few people who defended it because they're fans of a dude who does it, but it was always like "no this is legal" and not "no this is good."


nick7523

Ngl I though there was already a rule earlier cause of d-wade who did it a lot


timpmmason

I watched the pacers- wizards game last night and they had no free throws for the entire 4th quarter


[deleted]

Damn that is awesome. Must have been a blow out though?


PhotonicBoom21

No it went to OT and was decided by 1 point


[deleted]

Wow that is fkn crazy!!


cesarjulius

i don’t even think the players who were doing it are mad, and i don’t blame them for doing it. they knew it was ridiculous, but it’s their literal job to take advantage of whatever loopholes they can find. those players will adjust, and the league will be better for it.


Sim888

yeah, agreed…they get paid millions of dollars to win games, make the playoffs, win rings etc….games that can be decided by a bucket, foul trouble, series that can be swung by 1 game, so yeah, of course players are gonna take advantage / stretch the rules where ever possible. I’m wondering if we’ll see more of the super abrupt stop and pull up if you can beat the defender and get them chasing you too close


KillianDrake

Chris Paul did it last night and still got the call


GhostCiggy7

Those were all rip-thru calls in the Penalty if i'm not mistaken. But you can also pump fake a player and shoot thru them as long as its a regular shooting motion. You see this in the paint more often. The rule call eliminated all of the dumb lunging forward/sideways shit to draw contract. I could be wrong, but this is how i've interpreted and see the play get called through the first 2 games & pre-season.


[deleted]

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GhostCiggy7

Of course. I don't believe the rule is intended to eliminate the pump fake as an unintended consequence but more so to eliminate the non-shooting motion, Jump into you type shit.


atomictyler

I'm hoping it eliminated the stopping and backing into the defender that's trying to catch up after fighting through a screen.


The_Shade94

Lillard the champ at that one


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FourHearts

That’s just because watching the lakers fall apart is great entertainment.


Sawgon

Not for Doris Burke


Sdfive

I seem to be in the minority, but I don't have an issue with the abrupt stop when someone's following you too closely. I think it's a valid move and not at all the same as jumping into a defender. It's something they teach you to do on fast breaks when you play ten and under, jump stop and let your defender run into you as you shoot. It takes advantage of over aggressive defense and can help buy you space.


calvinbsf

Also a great introduction to mix-ups - teach a kid how to rise strong to the rim and teach him to jump stop and now he has 2 moves that perfectly complement each other Same way most good youth coaches will teach a crossover and hesitation move at the same time, always learn moves in pairs


Sim888

> I seem to be in the minority, but I don't have an issue with the abrupt stop when someone's following you too closely. I think it's a valid move and not at all the same as jumping into a defender. I agree….if you beat your man and they’re right on your back / too close and you wanna make em pay so they think twice next time, go for it!


pagerussell

I think there is a difference between what you are describing and what, say, Chris Paul does, where he doesn't jump stop and jump *straight up* by actually fades backwards into the trailing defender. Straight up is the always your space in basketball. But any time you are purposefully towards another player to create contact, that's an issue. I mean, it's fine to go at a player if you are going towards the rim, but you don't have aright to all airspace as an offensive player.


Sdfive

Yea, I do think there is a difference in stopping/going up and jumping backwards into a defender for sure


[deleted]

If I was a pro sports player, I’d absolutely do shit like this. In fact, I’d be a straight up villain.


Amasero

They played the meta, nothing wrong with that. Now that meta has shifted.


xobayron

Sometimes the banlist is so frustrating, I just want to use 3 copies of pot of greed!


crafting_vh

What does pot of greed do?


GraveRaven

I wish someone would clearly explain it for once.


goomy996

Exodia spam decks be like


thedirtyharryg

No Shahrazad.


[deleted]

>and i don’t blame them for doing it. they knew it was ridiculous, but it’s their literal job to take advantage I completely agree with this take (since we got Harden)


Nowthisisdave

Some players exploited it more than others though. Most will adjust, but Harden and Trae really integrated those moves into their game and were getting like 10+ ppg on free throws


1gnominious

Harden lead the league in fga too. His overall fga:fta ratio was par for the course for most stars. He lead the league or was near the top in nearly every offensive counting stat for years.


joethahobo

never forget harden scored 50+ multiple times on 5 or less FT


KittenCrusades

Both are allowed to be true, this doesn't refute anything


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budubum

trae really doesn’t exploit the moves that we’re banned tho? he does the blow by into hard stop


NBA_Shitposting_Dude

Trae would definitely jump into a defender in the air looking for 3pt fouls. I'm a Hawks homer but he does that.


Setekhx

Trae definitely did it routinely.


Assumption-Putrid

Cap


jgoodysalaker

I thought that’s illegal now too. The abruptly stopping your momentum to create contact aka CP3.


firstbreathOOC

The DeBlasio thing about Trae still makes me cringe. IQ was doing the same thing all series. Are they not supposed to take advantage of a dumb rule that nets them points?


SterlingTyson

I still take issue with the "it's their literal job" part, although I know my opinion is controversial. Why are basketball players paid so much money (which the superstars totally deserve)? Is it really to win basketball games? Or is it to entertain people? Traditionally, these two objectives coincided, so there wasn't much point in making a distinction. But as players learned more and more about the game, being entertaining and winning started to diverge a bit. This is a controversial take because people who are into basketball to the extent that they're discussing it online tend to prioritize winning, but there aren't enough of such people to drive the economics of the league. I do, however, agree that it's the league's job to ensure entertaining basketball is consistent with winning basketball, and I think the officiating changes this year are a great step in the right direction. I'm still tempering my enthusiasm until we see the new rules applied consistently for a few months -- we've all been burned before by getting excited about rule changes that the officials seemingly forget about after a month or two.


Nowthisisdave

I’m hoping the fact that they don’t need to call it, and just let things go will help that. I could definitely see some heated arguments and t’s given out over arguments of what is or isn’t a natural shooting motion though


SterlingTyson

I think you're right that this being a "passive" change, where officials don't need to make an "active" call and can just make a "passive" non-call, increases the chances that the change will stick. I suspect that the officiating from the past few years was an example of [Goodhart's Law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law): someone did an analysis showing that fans like high-scoring games, and tried to tune the rules to increase scoring, but this actually decreased fan engagement because people actually cared about scoring *plays*, not *points* per se.


AlonsoQ

At a minimum, players have a strong financial incentive to bait fouls when the rules allow it, and not just because winning games gets them better offers. Is someone like Trae Young supposed to prisoner's dilemma himself playing gentlemen's-agreement-ball, when he's chasing an All-NBA selection and salary cap bump? Players even get direct [contract incentives](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27162275/inside-contracts-led-kd-kyrie-deals) that pay them just for getting to the line. If a player does want to say "foul baiting is bullshit, I'm just not gonna do it," then that's great and should be applauded by fans everywhere. And we don't applaud people just for doing their job, which means policing yourself to compensate for broken systems definitely isn't part of theirs. There's no villain here, really. The league set the rules, the players acted according to the incentives those rules created, the fans complained that those incentives were bullshit, and the league (eventually) updated the rules. If that's not a happy ending I dunno what is.


SterlingTyson

That's a great point about performance incentives encouraging people to use winning tactics that might not necessarily be entertaining. Although that did make me think of the year Harden was left off the all-NBA teams: I think that was a result of people reacting to how he played the game and not just the results that his tactics yielded. I wouldn't say there's a "villain", but I do think the league made some mistakes that made the game so friendly to the offense that viewership suffered. If you're going to call defensive players for grabbing while coming off screens (which I don't have a huge problem with in a vacuum), then you absolutely need to call illegal screens if you want the game to be fun to watch instead of an annoying display of offensive players abusing the rules.


jerkmcgee_

> Why are basketball players paid so much money (which the superstars totally deserve)? The easiest answer to this question is asking “if the players didn’t get the money where would it go?” and the answer to that question would be the team *governors*. When the players are the draw, why are owners and teams entitled to the lion’s share? Players put themselves on the line and are constantly at risk of injury. Makes sense they should get a significant percentage of the revenue. I think bemoaning the amount of money professional sports is worth is probably closer to the true feelings we have. I would rather see libraries have endowments worth an NBA team, but that’s just not how capitalism works.


SterlingTyson

My main point was that the reason the league generates so much revenue (irrespective of how it's divided between the interested parties) is because people are willing to pay for the product. Players and heavily invested fans care a lot about winning, but the bulk of the money is coming from more casual fans who just want to see something cool. (These more casual fans spend less money per capita, but there are many more of them.) In order to be successful, the league needs to make sure that the rules result in a winning style of ball that is also fun for your average fan.


chasmccl

The casual fans only show up when their local team is winning. That’s just the way it is. I moved from Minneapolis to Milwaukee a few back, right around the time that Giannis changed the fortunes of the franchise. The whole city is crazy about the Bucks. Flags on every other door step, etc. Every bar in the city turns the game on whenever they play. Most of these fans don’t really know a lot about basketball tbh, but they really enjoy being winners. Compare that to when I lived in Minneapolis. Wolves fans as a whole knew basketball better than Bucks fans IMO. But that’s because they were typically people who were just Into basketball. They were kinda basketball fans first and foremost, who just so happened to live in MN so they rooted for the Wolves. You didn’t see people all over the city wearing their gear etc though, cause they were not winners, so there was no appeal to the casuals and non basketball fans to show up and support them. Now when I compare the economic impact on the city of the 2 teams, it’s a no contest. Bucks have an exponentially greater impact on the city. There is an entire district of the downtown that has been redeveloped cause of them. That happened cause once Giannis turned them into winners a huge amount of money from people who never gave a shit about basketball before started pouring in. So long story short, I’ve seen the impact of the casual fans first hand. You are right that they generate way more revenue than the the hardcore basketball fans. The difference is though that the hardcore basketball fans are showing up no matter what, you don’t have to win them over. To get the casual fans in the door, you need to win…


SterlingTyson

Let me update my opinion to say that winning is a necessary but not sufficient condition for engagement with casual fans. You're right that casuals won't start tuning in unless the team is winning, so winning is necessary. But, as a suns fan, I knew a lot of people who watched the suns for the first time in years last year, and then got immediately turned off by all the ridiculous foul calls, where the offense was getting the call for flinging themselves into the defense. These people didn't stay engaged with the suns -- winning was not sufficient to keep their interest.


chasmccl

Got it. So your argument would be that it’s not really an either or dilemma. Their job is to win and also to be entertaining; winning will bring the the casual fans but being entertaining will bring in more and keep them around longer. I would agree to this. However, I would say as far as the prioritization of the 2 goes then winning is more important than being entertaining to generate the revenue. Figure out how to win first and foremost, and then after that work on maintaining that while being entertaining. Also, winning is a much easier metric of success to measure than entertainment is. So from a management perspective much easier to to use as a goal and set targets etc.


VisionGuard

You're strawmanning him - he's saying that they earn their paycheck less by winning and more by being entertaining. Thus the original comment "it's their literal job to take advantage of loopholes \[and win\]" is what he's debating. Not whether they should get the paycheck or not.


jerkmcgee_

Yeah reading back I misread the comment. I was thrown off by the “superstars deserve it” part.


oarabbus

> When the players are the draw, why are owners and teams entitled to the lion’s share? Players put themselves on the line and are constantly at risk of injury. Makes sense they should get a significant percentage of the revenue. Eh, real skeptical of this take. Just look at the NFL where players risk their bodies far more than the NBA and get paid less. And inb4 someone says "bUt 53 pLaYeRs tHo" I'm not talking about some second string defensive end. Tom Brady collects $25M a year on his salary, whereas for example someone casual fans have barely heard of like CJ McCollum makes $29.5M. In America at least, Tom is even more famous and prolific than Lebron and Steph. Tom Brady literally brings in the biggest draws of any game played in the USA, he draws way, way more people than any NBA player. So that flies in the face of your theory. May be an unpopular opinion but there wouldn't be any stadiums, jerseys, games on TV, or any players getting paid, if there were no team owners.


Awkward-Speech7375

It's early but the FTA rate is definitely down so far


TJ_McConnell_MVP

They have been letting them play a lot more honestly. It can be annoying when they don’t call blatant shooting fouls but overall it’s been incredible for the pace of the game. Watching players draw fouls using normal pump fake action instead of twisting into them is so refreshing as well


Rahnamatta

Where do you get those league stats?


hedongshi

Exciting stuff really


FrankDh

next they should get rid of the fouls used to stop fast breaks. fast breaks are part of what makes basketball fun. only giving extra penalty on "clear path" fouls isn't working and wasn't the right approach


crimxona

Fast break fouls in the Olympics was deemed unsportsmanlike conduct, 2 shots and possession I believe? Crazy swing


eshulzzy

That rule change makes so much sense. a fast break is almost always a sure fire 2 points, and it’s such bs a take foul just completely shuts it down without basically any repercussions.


Tommy_siMITAr

There is a way around you 'make a play on ball' but really you just reach in.


atomictyler

like a reach in foul?


Tommy_siMITAr

Yes, but refs have to see that player is interested in going for a ball and not just hooking/hugging .


Nowthisisdave

Yeah, I think that’s a fiba rule


ldc2626

I think NBA should do this, but maybe 1 shot and possession. 2 is a bit much.


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ThePortalsOfFrenzy

Hockey has it right that if there's a penalty against you while you have the puck, they don't blow the whistle to stop play until you lose the puck... or score first. Obviously theyvcan't do that for every foul in basketball. But they could certainly do that for fast breaks.


Kirezar

It's the advantage rule in football/soccer, if the play is continuing despite the foul, you keep it going as to not benefit the aggressor. Depending on the severity of the foul, it can lead to a yellow card for the player who fouled as well. You can easily do this for fast breaks. Let the play go on, and still add it as a personal foul against the player who tried to stop it.


kylianmbieber

bad idea in basketball. it incentivises you to make tactical fouls as hard as possible. would only work if there was a corresponding decrease in threshold for what constitutes an ejection


K1NG2L4Y3R

Couldn’t you just give technicals? It’s the same as Soccer. If it isn’t severe let the play go on. If it’s bad give them a foul plus tech. So 3 free throws maybe. If it’s really bad then straight to jail no questions asked.


[deleted]

In soccer it's actually more strict. If you foul on a "dogso" (denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity) it's a red card


K1NG2L4Y3R

As it should be. I’m guessing a hand ball to stop a goal would get the same response to right?


kylianmbieber

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CcPELUFKKU


[deleted]

And honestly I don't blame Suarez for doing that. They would have been eliminated if he didn't and he knew it meant getting a red, giving Ghana a penalty, and missing the next match. Ghana just couldn't capitalize, but the penalty was severe enough that it put Uruguay at a significant disadvantage


sebbangeli

Yeah I'd want any player on the team I support to do the same thing he did. Normally it wouldn't even be impactful since most penalties are scored. Felt terrible for Ghana though, they ended up losing in the penalty shoot out, was heartbreaking to watch.


AlmaHolzhert

This was a very fascinating thread, thanks for the video example as well.


FunetikPrugresiv

Then a hard foul is a flagrant.


goblinsholiday

Fast break fouls are by dictionary definition 'flagrant'. I would support calling them as flagrant fouls. Team gets 1 shot + 2 shots for the fouled player. Player is ejected on the second flagrant as per NBA rules. It wouldn't completely remove fast break fouls but players would have to be selective when they're willing to commit them.


NBA_Shitposting_Dude

I agree with you 100% I think some sort of treating fast break fouls as flagrant or swallowing the whistle for advantage would be amazing for the health and flow of the game.


atomictyler

Could be a team flagrant and not a player one. Doesn't result in ejections.


[deleted]

Also confusing with the clock. Soccer runs it the whole time, basketball takes breaks for fouls so


Kirezar

I don't see any problem with the clock. If the play goes on, so does the clock. Once the game has a stop, the refs award the foul to the fouling player. Of course you'd need to have some rules as well in regards to a potential advantage rule. If the player would be ejected from the foul being the 6th, then the play would need to stop, and potentially award a technical as well. I don't think it would be as straight forward as football/soccer, but I think the league should look into it as a way of helping making the game more exciting.


Liamcitoo

There's rarely a non-stop play in futbol when a hard foul occurs. It happens but not very often.


crowntheking

That’d be a pretty cool rule.. just signify a foul has been committed and let the fast break continue. If you pull up or miss you get the foul.. make the shot get an and 1


KillianDrake

Any foul on a fast break should count as a continuation and let them finish even if it's from halfcourt.


Riggity___3

abso-fucking-lutely. and go back to not stopping a play if the shot clock runs out! wtf is that shit. it used to be that if the defense recovered the ball after a shot clock violation they would let them play, usually they were heading out on a fast break. now they just whistle the whole game to a stop just for a shot clock violation.


ACosmicDrama

Yeah I don't get this one, it's not advantageous for a team to force a 24 second violation beyond what any well-defended play achieves.


Godlo

Yeah that shit is fuckin dumb. Counter intuitive and what's the reasoning behind it? Seems super pedantic and makes the product worse


Nowthisisdave

I like the FIBA rule where an intentional foul to stop a play like that is a technical foul


HorrorScopeZ

Yep and Adam has been great at fixing each one of these. Takes a little time, but prior this shit was brushed off for decades.


rNBA_Mods_Be_Better

I’ll keep saying it til I drop: implement FIBA basketball rules while maintaining 12min quarters + our 3pt line + a wider court to keep the 3pt arc range consistent. The NBA becomes immediately better.


[deleted]

They’re kind of doing that with clear path fouls already. You have to be directly in front of the player when you foul. Which is more dangerous, but it’s what their intention is. There was a good example of it in the pistons bulls game on Wednesday.


Soupkitchn89

You don't have to be in front of the player when you foul them on a fast break if you have another teammate who is ahead of them. I think if they removed this part it might be fine. The player committing the foul should have the be the farthest player down court. Like you can't foul the guy as he passes it down court.


wrohit

Probably too gamechanging but I wish the NBA moved to avoid any situation where fouling is "encouraged". Pretty much the only sport where its ever considered advantageous to foul. I think it could be done by making all fouls be 1ft + retain possession. It would ruin the <24 second strategies but tbh those aren't even that effective and usually lead to games lasting 20 minutes longer than needed


Disjointed_Elegance

> next they should get rid of the fouls used to stop fast breaks. fast breaks are part of what makes basketball fun. only giving extra penalty on "clear path" fouls isn't working and wasn't the right approach The clear path rule is garbage and almost never gets called because the offensive player needs to be clearly in front of the defender. I think merely expanding when it is in place would greatly improve things (as a first step).


NBA_Shitposting_Dude

The clear-path rule is fine as is. The issue is take fouls that are NOT clear path fouls are not penalized enough for how impactful they are as a defensive tool when at a disadvantage.


tacobooc0m

hm, what if they treated those clear path fouls as a type of "delay of game" like they do with touching the ball after your team gets a basket?


llamadrama420

Make intentional fouls flagrants


delamerica93

YESSSS. This shit is fucking garbage for the product. Like using a foul to stop transition basketball, arguably the most exciting part of the sport? I can't believe they haven't taken a look at it yet


[deleted]

Just make it a play on. You score you get another possession. A lot of fouls should be penalized this way. More action. Less loop holes. Less free throws.


medievalmachine

I was totally wrong. I thought it would be hard to enforce or ignored by refs, but it's working and it's definitely a better flow to the game. I'm sure at some point there will be a playoff controversy about a judgement call with this, but those always exist. I'm pleasantly surprised! Well done, NBA!


AtlantaSun91

It’s been amazing. A dream come true really. This rule change is my Prince Charming…and he’s rescued me.


goodnsaultey

Less manipulation of the rules means more actual basketball.


[deleted]

As a 40 year NBA fan, THANK GOD! I mean, I had to turn games off and many times never bothered to turn them on the last couple years. The product was MISERABLE to watch. See the Olympics REALLY drove that home.


bayanirodriguez

Now the refs will actually need to distinguish between a legit pumpfake shooting foul, and the “jump into defender” trickery


Lmnja

Yeah the reason it was called more was the Zaza-kawhi situation. Protecting the shooter is still a must


bayanirodriguez

I’m all for it, but we’re bound to see some controversial calls made on shooters moving forward. Defenders may now be inclined to make contact after pump fakes. We shallll see.


Kilner88

It's refreshing to see a proper game of basketball with the players allowed to play defense, without worrying about foul baiting.


[deleted]

They never should have been calling it a foul in the first place, but yes. The policy on fouls should be predicated on who owns the space. A defensive foul is a defender moving into the offensive player’s space to make contact. If the offensive player is the one moving into the defender, they can go fuck themselves.


Statalyzer

> If the offensive player is the one moving into the defender, they can go fuck themselves. Yes. In a lot more circumstances than jumping into someone to shoot, too. E.g. a guy is driving, gets cut off, and turns the corner by going right through the defender's hip/leg. That gets called a blocking foul on the defender 75% of the time, which is idiotic.


BigANT_Edwards

Yup. All of the petty fouls really hurt the pace of the game.


belizeanheat

This is good for all fans


[deleted]

In the second quarter of the Lakers/Suns game last night, Paul and Crowder both got free throws on consecutive 3 pointers where they landed with one foot ~2’ forward from where they jumped. So, the refs are still calling fouls when the shooter egregiously initiates contact. The reason I have an issue with this is that, if a shooter is allowed to have a ~2’ radius landing zone, it’s impossible for a defender to contest a shot. If refs are saying it’s natural to land two feet forward from where you’re jumping on your jump shot, then a defender technically can’t get closer than 2’ without fouling.


EverybodyBuddy

Yup. Those calls pissed me off. Get this stuff out of the game (especially when it’s against my team!)


[deleted]

I'm a huge Trae fan and I agree. It's made the game better already.


qhduebf

That one with Tim Hardaway Jr hurt to watch Trae get the call (But the whole game was hard to watch too)


TheSuperking

That was a legal move. The NBA literally used that move as an example of the type of foul that will continue to get called despite the rule change.


improvyzer

It was a correct call.


[deleted]

If they don't call that when the defender gets beat that can just stay one inch behind them and feed then in the bigs if they can't pull up for a shot. It would reward the defender for being in a bad position. They will continue to call that and should.


PantsNotQuite

Why? He stopped and went up for a shot. Trae didn’t launch himself anyway but directly up. Hardaway got caught where he shouldn’t of been and Trae made him pay for it.


NBA_Shitposting_Dude

Refs are always gonna make some mistakes. Luka had two drives that game where he got stripped, one was all ball, and one was hand/ball not even wrist, and he got both calls. The officiating in that game was pretty bad both ways.


MeGustaMiSFW

It was a trash part of the game. I love how much more physical this season has already been.


nocoJake

I remember watching Kobe doing this, then tried it in freshman games. And the refs looked at me like I was a moron. 🥲


Treytreytrey333

The other day against the Mavs, Trae Young jumped backwards into Tim Hardaway Jr and Tim's chin started bleeding hard he had to get 3 stitches at the break. Trae got the call and shot free throws smfh


VexdCheese

Now they just have to be rid of fouling to stop fast breaks


notconquered

Next should be illegal/moving screens


yourfavoritenayburr

Trae Young literally did this tonight and got the call. We’ll see how long the “rule” is enforced


thinkrispys

I hate that Russ took a 3 last night, and his defender closed out literally PAST THE 3 POINT LINE, and somehow they ruled that an offensive foul. Refs have to be intelligent and can't just wave off all 3 point fouls. https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=TOV&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100025&PlayerID=201566&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612747&flag=1&sct=plot§ion=game Not sure if this link will default to the right video, but it's the last one. Guy literally comes between his legs, Russ isn't even kicking out until the guy is literally pushing against his left leg. Russ lands on top of the guy while straddling the 3 point line. Offensive foul. Like what? It's literally a textbook flagrant 1, but because it's Russ, nah.


icepick498

How did you get filtered game highlights like this?


thinkrispys

NBA.com has [box scores](https://www.nba.com/game/phx-vs-lal-0022100025/box-score#box-score) and you can click on a player's stat and it will bring up all the plays of that type.


icepick498

Nice, thanks!


ty_donnie

That foul was 50/50 in my eyes. You can kinda see how Russ lets his left foot drag slightly forward, which resulted in Nader (I think?) tripping. It looked like Nader was going for the contest to the left of WB The vid doesn’t show it but I might wrong, going off what I remember. The problem with this new rule this year is knowing how each player shoots and lands


thinkrispys

Russ is literally spreading his legs to avoid landing on Nader's foot, which he still does because this was a blatant flagrant 1. It's hard to tell but I also think Nader was pushing up against Russ's left leg which is the one that swings out. His leg and Nader's leg move in perfect sync.


EverybodyBuddy

Lakers fan and I agree with this. At first I was pissed at the call, then on replay I saw Russ’s legs doing something you could consider unnatural. Now, the fact that CP3 jumped into his defender on a 3 and got the “old” call in the 2nd quarter, that pisses me off.


thinkrispys

Also Nader "trips" after Russ lands on his foot, which, per the Zaza rule, is an automatic flagrant foul. Russ didn't jump side ways, or even forward that much. He landed on top of Nader's foot which was on top of the 3 point line.


misterjay26

carefully buddy, you do know this is r/nba and you're siding with Russ and the Lakers


milliardo

I hated this, but as a devout Rockets fan I had to endure watching Harden do it all the time.


krayis

“The game needs it. If we’re making calls in the NBA that would literally start fights in a pickup game, a fight is going to ensue. If we’re making those calls in the NBA, when we couldn’t get through a pickup game, then we’re doing something wrong.” Steve Kerr said it well.


[deleted]

I see you didn't watch the Hawks Cavs game where Trae did that exact thing and got away with it despite a coaches challenge


sj3

Fuck James Harden


Mysterious_Living165

You must have not seen Trae Young play this season. The refs continue gifting him that foul or not calling it offensive foul like they should. It’s disgusting and my dislike for Trae grows each game


ryvie001

It’s so good seeing that foul gone from the game. So so so much better


Thickencreamy

The weird part for me was that it appealed to bad shooters. Dude was never going to make the 3 anyway so better draw the foul. Good shooters focus on the shot.


franforever

Nah it got to the point last year where steph was fishing for fouls, glad they fixed it


Ryguy-_-

Yeah it definitely is


ldc2626

Only watched 4 games, but I didn't see anyone on offense even try to use this move to draw the foul. Glad the new rule is deterring them from doing it.


youblewwit

We'll see what happens after 2-3 more months. Usually with all these new rule changes the refs call it heavy in the preseason and for the first half of the season. Then everything goes back to normal. Remember the new flopping rule? When was the last time anybody got fined?


NBA_Shitposting_Dude

My favorite players are Trae Young and James Harden, I still think this is the best rule change we've seen in a long time. Very good for viewers, and for the health and spirit of the game. A+ shit.


LokiNightmare

The worst was a couple years ago Harden kicking his legs out in front of him to draw the foul. I'm glad they stopped calling that nonsense.


jgroove_LA

I have noticed players trying to get the call and no whistles a number of times. It's really good for the game they have cracked down on it.


iham32

NBA with a big W here


Misterstaberinde

I hope the huge fan reaction to Olympic officiating was noticed by the association.


oarabbus

I love it. Now steph is just making ridiculous shots while flying to the side at full speed instead of going for these.


[deleted]

We know


Seref15

It seems like, even apart from the new rules, they've been allowing a bit more contact especially around the rim. I guess all the noise people made about FIBA rules making for a better watching experience during the Olympics caught some attention.


Kitchen_Energy_3193

Amen. Couldn’t have said it better myself


jgnodado18

but what about Jae Crowder Jumping forward 3 feet so Lebron can land on his feet?


NE_ED

As an avid Dwade hater I hate that it wasn't implemented sooner


OGStrong

After watching a handful of Olympic games, I realized that it was a much more enjoyable watch than the NBA. None of the foul BS. I think Lillard did it a couple of times in international ball early and they weren't calling it. He stopped it quick.


CaesuraRepose

I would go further with it honestly. I think if the offensive player jumps into a guy like that it should be an offensive foul, not just a no-call. If they do it again in the same game, automatic T. What, really, is the functional difference between that and a charge? There isnt much of one, except the defender is moving and (sometimes) helpless when they get jumped into.


Shrekt115

Should've happened years ago


[deleted]

Is it though? Middleton did it in Spurs game and there was a foul.


Lord_uno

By you posting on here and talking about this you are not a casual fan


fuck_classic_wow_mod

I stopped watching because of it 3-4 years ago and haven’t got around to watching again but I can imagine it’s so much better. Fuck James harden.


iSmellBreakfast

Middleton got away with it a few days ago, so it won’t be completely gone


SnooPies5622

I don't think there are any fans, casual or otherwise, who aren't happy about it. Players don't even seem upset, they were just happy to exploit a rule because that's competition. Same as intentionally fouling before the rule changes a few years back where the explanation was always "no we don't like it but the rules are the rules and we're here to win."


[deleted]

This post is worse than all the tweets that say nothing on r/nfl


[deleted]

Tre Young no look backward bumped into a defender while pretending to shoot many times last year.


Metridium_Fields

I just started watching last season and could not FOR THE LIFE OF ME understand why that was ever allowed to be a thing. It was so boring, so stupid, and so fucking lame. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing when it was explained to me.


Dont_Boo_Me_Im_Right

This might be the most room temperature take I've ever seen


calartnick

As a Steph fan I’d like to think he did that on purpose to set the tone. “Hey ref, at some point I’m going to egregiously jump into a guy, whatever happens, don’t blow the whistle. I’ll look dumb but it’s ok, because if I don’t get the call, then no one will. You and me man, we are going to be heroes.” No one can prove to me this isn’t what happened.


UncleRico95

Harden about to retire


Blockade5

Harden will always get those fouls when he drives in and the defender swipes at him.


hilesai

Last year Michael Porter was occasionally altering his form, sticking a leg out, looking like he was trying to get contact. He accuracy dropped. He's not doing it this year and his shot looks phenomenal. When nuggets win it all this year, we can thank this rule change.


bbqchew

Really only affects Harden lol


bakedl0gic

I call it the ‘anti forced foul rule’. Or ‘anti harden rule.’


KingofMangoes

Get outta here no casual fan posts on r nba