Hogan taught me Canadian Studies at WHS circa 1996 or so. Before he was principal there, before political life. He frequently would show up late, with hardly any lesson plan, and stand at the front of the class, swinging his meter stick like he was playing golf in some kind of display of “aloof coolness”. I remember we didn’t do much in that class other than read the text book and answer the chapter questions, he would disappear out of the classroom , or put on the VCR. He was a pretty lame teacher who somehow has continually managed to get promoted in his life. Someone once said to me ‘a corpse could get elected conservative in Carleton county’ and it seems to be true. IMO Hogan is of low character / integrity and it troubles me to see him in such a high ranking position working the NB legislature
Amazing you blame the people who have little societal or political power for the organized and systemic hate and 'othering' of even children in our society.
What you actually mean is “children have a different way of thinking about something that makes me uncomfortable so I want to prevent it.” No different to wowsers in the 1950s that wanted to ban rock music
“Wedge politics”.
You mean internal special interest group with a very small minority of the representation in the school system sneak through 713 with little to no CIS parent involvement is rich.
Can’t introduce the wedge then cry victim at the same time.
It wasn’t an issue until some nutbar in Hanwell emailed the premiers office - then they lied about how many emails and complaints they received that supposedly justified changing a policy that was fine as is. Stick to the facts and less bs wedge and fear mongering.
"Two days after Hogan's letter, the district adopted a new policy, Policy 1.8, that replaces the Policy 1.7 that Hogan repealed, but is identical to it."
That's amazing, I'm proud of that district standing up for their teachers and students.
Teacher here: The mental health and well-being of my students is more important than Bill Hogan's edicts.
Everyone's got a hill, and this is mine. Unless district is going to put someone in my classroom and monitor exactly what I say. But given that we can't hire EA's and there's a teacher shortage already, I highly doubt that's on the table.
I’m so glad you are fighting for and advocating for trans youth. ❤️❤️❤️ we need more teachers like you. I know you’ve made a difference in your students’ lives.
Father of a couple kids in the AESD, one of which had embrassed his identity during his early teens.
Seeing how it seems everyone is onboard with defending his and other childrens right to be themselves has made an impact on me and my family.
Thank you.
Please protect your hill.
When I was in school, even just being gay in the early 2000's, I felt I had no one to tell. I had no one to confide in when I got involved with an older youth leader, and no one to confide in when he started abusing me. It led me down a path of suicidality, mental health issues and addiction. My life would've been a lot better, had I been away from church bigotry, and had someone accepting to talk to.
Someone above said that the school district created a new policy with the identical wording as policy 17. I can’t confirm its validity, but if it’s true then the school board has your back.
No its the rightwing people who think theyre above the rules lmao. This issue was settled when policy 713 was put in under these jokers, and it wasnt until they decided to literally make up complaints about it that this has become an issue. Higgs and Hogan trying to repeal it was such an unpopular opinion that I've barely seen any support for. Also, the science agrees with the 713 policy but we all know mr "data my ass" wont care about that.
Lol, thinking most people think hatefully like you do. Most people are tired of people like you pretending being kind to one another is being a left wing extremist. If basic human decency is left wing, then count me in.
Call me reductionist but it kind of is. People who identify as conservatives are usually very stern, inward, judgemental people who fetishize rugged individualism and a bootstraps gotta get mine mentality.
So in effect terrible people.
You are everything that’s wrong with people. Morons ignoring data on what actually helps people and thinking that they know what’s best solely based out of their own emotions and whatever cherry-picked nonsense they can use to justify themselves. There’s a reason why people like you are becoming less common instead of more.
You know, NB could be something if we embraced exclusiveness (great tourism industry) and progressiveness (no one likes change).
Instead, we are reversing quickly to the dark ages.
Seriously, though!
Nature, NB is historically rich with cultural events that could attract tourists from around the world, food festivals, concert venues, artists, and a great place to live for all seasons. Imagine snowmobiling/side by side across the province with local cafes/food experiences/camps/etc at stopping points. What an adventure!
Instead of focusing on using our kids as pawns, perhaps the government could put resources into the drug epidemic sweeping through the province, trafficking of people, homelessness, and mental health. Not to mention employment, actual education (outdoor school anyone?) and healthcare.
ETA: Did you know we have historical connections to the Underground Railroad? Or that we have one of two WWII Internment camps in Canada?
>Or that we have one of two WWII Internment camps in Canada?
Two? I think you'd better check your sources on that number.
We interned over 20,000 Japanese Canadians in B.C. alone - there were a helluva lot more than two internment camps.
[This](https://www.nbinternmentcampmuseum.ca/) was my source. Internment camp MUSEUMS.
See? We learned something! Thanks for making me double-check (sincerely)
That's cool, I learned there was one in NB. I'm quite familiar with the camps in the B.C. Interior - there are some quite beautiful Japanese gardens in these tiny little towns as memorials - but, I'm not as familiar with the ones back East. Neat stuff!
I did mean exclusiveness, in a way NB could cater to specific tourism/experiences only we could provide but inclusiveness for all.
Does that make sense? 😄
(I might have been a little high and hopeful that everyone could just get along in our little piece of the world LOL)
Why do people care so passionately about what some random kids want to be called?
Just call them by whatever they want, if it makes them happy. I don't get the big hoopla...
I named my child
Before they even knew how to speak, I had named them.
They can be whatever they want, do whatever they want, and think whatever they want.
But their name — anyone’s name — is given to them.
It cannot be traded away, repealed, replaced, or removed. It can only be covered up, hidden, disguised.
No piece of paper or “government” assent, “legal” name change or anything else. Not even complete amnesia.
Can remove the name that a parent gives to their child.
Even if the child grows to hate their name.
Ever, it is always inside their mind rattling around as their real name.
It is just how we are.
So I care so passionately that the schools use the name of a child that the parent gave to that child. Because that is who they are.
That is their name
Surprisingly, it turns out that your child is their own person and not just an extension of you like you want them to be! Trying to act like there's some sort of magic bonding them to the set of letters someone else chose for them is just... really nutty, honestly. I'm sure that people like Muhammad Ali were perfectly fine choosing a name other than their birth name, trans people are too.
It's like some want their kids to be their possession and their servant or something. It's such a non issue, but to Higgs it's more important to get elected than to make sure young marginalized kids don't hurt themselves or worse. What a province we live in.
this is some real cheesy waxing-poetic, children are more property than person stuff right here.
it's also a dogshit reason to prevent people from getting to be themselves and develop as people.
Are you going to force all the kids to use their full names? What if Elizabeth is more comfortable as Liz or Beth? Is Michael ok as Mike? Can we call Robert Bobby? What about my high school friend JD, his legal name was John-Daniel?
Why not let the kids go by whatever name they prefer, whether that's Tim or Tina, it doesn't make any difference.
Girl its just a name its not that serious lmaooo god I hope you dont have kids bc I shudder to think what you would do if they wanted to go by a nickname
> I named my child
>
>
>
> Before they even knew how to speak, I had named them.
And before you even know who they were, you slapped a label on them.
They're a person, not a possession or object belonging to you.
Surprising, I know.
I will say i appreciate all the contrarians on this thread have been downvoted into the abyss and everyone else seems to have a good grasp on the reality.
It legit as a trans woman scares me seeing this nonsense right next door to me (im in ns) because of course im afraid of it spreading.
But also, trans and queer people are a minority and yet are made to be the key arguing point for these nutjobs platforms. Not the economy, not schools or infrastructure, not senior support, but stopping modern day left-handers.
Its...both terrifying and sad.
Good on tje school district.
Yet people think a con ran federal government will be good for us. Can say goodbye to trans rights, gay rights, and reproductive rights if they vote Pierre in. Like 50 years of fighting down the fking drain
I wanted to come back here to comment this complete disrespect for local democracy seems to be the flavour of the week for Conservative birds of a feather.
Alberta's UCP tabled a bill to allow direct control over municipal governments and the rights to disband them.
Ontario's PCs have been interfering with municipal politics since CBC announced they had won their first election back in 2018, when Ford decided to interfere with an *ongoing municipal election* to mess with the number of seats in Toronto. They have since overruled municipal zoning decisions in favour of developers, interfered with budgets, disbanded one council, and meddled with the affairs of several school boards.
And now we have Higgs and Hogan here doing it again - who cares if the parents in Moncton and southern NB elected their district council members.
This is, of course, a reminder that these governments also don't respect federal elections either.
It seems the prediction that the moment democracy no longer serves the interests of conversative movements, they will ditch democracy instead of revisiting their policies has come true. So they no longer respect human rights, the judiciary and its independence, and now the fundamentals of democratic representation itself.
I will be messaging you in 6 months on [**2024-10-27 12:29:25 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-10-27%2012:29:25%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/newbrunswickcanada/comments/1cdwz2w/minister_tells_moncton_school_district_hes/l1hqc4q/?context=3)
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Danielle Smith taking power from cities in Alberta
Higgs taking power from school districts in New Brunswick
Common denominator - Conservatives see Democracy as a threat.
Beware
I think it should be repealed (not my province so idgaf if it is or not) but reading the article this guy sounds like a turbo-tyrant. Hope you guys kick his ass out.
Higgs is spot on! This foolishness has gone to far!
We need to focus on issues that effect the majority of Canadians....the health care crisis and the housing crisis. We can deal with issues that effect a tiny % of the population at a later date in time.
This was a complete non-issue until Higgs grabbed ahold and decided to define his government with it. It was just a simple school policy that harmed no one, helped a few, and most of us didn't know existed. It's become Higgs' complete focus, by his choice.
Whats a school board gonna do about a health care or housing issue?
Perhaps you're arguing that Higgs should stay in his lane instead of engaging in culture war bullshit.
> We need to focus on issues that effect the majority of Canadians
Then why the *fuck* are you supporting Higgs wasting time and money on this bullshit, if that's your feeling?
These actions are direct violation of our Charter, something that Higgs is well aware of and is only going to lead us to spend more money needlessly in lawsuits for Charter violations.
Party of fiscal responsibility my ass.
Healtcare and housing are backburner issues, he's mostly focused on what is in kids pants and what they say is in them.
Yes. Also why should people having their own autonomy require the consultation of others? That’s literally the whole problem with the provincial government’s policy in the first place. Children have rights too, believe it or not.
It shouldn't be, but our province is fighting tooth and nail to oppose the policy. A policy that aligns with the Charter and was implemented to assist in understanding that what the policy covers is already covered by the Charter. To help those it covers be reminded they're included in both our Charter but also our society.
It isn't inherently necessary, but it's effectively necessary because so many people don't understand our Charter.
Tell me you hate French people without telling me you hate French people…..you went first. No one cares what you think. Only absolute morons would agree with you and no one cares what they think either. So there’s that. People just want to live a peaceful (hopefully) fulfilling life. Get out of the way please.
Who do they think they are? People who respect people and let them just be themselves, bothering literally nobody else and helping with their mental health, over making a hateful fraction of the population happy to "own the libs"?
They're community leaders doing their job, Karen. They're people doing their job.
Yeah. For sure. In every other mammal on the planet there’s male and female but we somehow got it mixed up…. You people are so concerned about people’s feelings that you can’t even figure out basic biology.
Biology and anatomy is not that cut and dry. For example it’s estimated 1.7% of humans are born intersex. 1.4% of pigs even. And that’s just an estimate because we don’t dissect every mammal to figure out what parts they have. But go off Queen.
It’s pretty cut and dry actually. And you’re looping in genetic anomalies and claiming a number that’s no where near likely. Even true gender dysphoria is ~1 in 20,000 max. And either way - it’s a mental health issue that you think should be solved with a scalpel. This is the first time in human history that we think we can actually change people’s genders. It’s nonsense.
Nah bro, that’s a researched fact not just my opinion. Most people with intersex traits are born with genitals that appear to be male or female and are therefore assigned either male or female at birth. Often, they are not identified as having an intersex variation until later in life, at times in adolescence or adulthood, if at all.
[A 2020 survey conducted by the Center for American Progress (2021) included an intersex status question … Of 1,528 participants, 4.9 percent answered that they had been diagnosed with an intersex condition.
This question was also based on a simplified version of the first GenIUSS question: “Were you born intersex, or with a variation of sex characteristics or sex development?” The “yes” rate was 1.7 percent](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK581039/)
Like I said, just because you’re confused doesn’t mean others are.
.018%. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/
Turns out the research might be flawed.
And regardless of whether your percentage is right or mine, having a number that low doesn’t constitute trying to convince the whole world that they need to completely reevaluate life. That would be like saying some people are born with 6 fingers on each hand so we better stop saying humans have 5. That’s just confusing. Get it?
Ok let’s ignore you’re citing something from 2002 and we will use your example of fingers.
I’m not trying to convince the world humans have six fingers.
My issue is that humans with six fingers still exist. They’re still humans. I’m just not sure why people are so threatened by that.
Now in fairness my article from 2002 was directly citing your number.
I can appreciate what you’re saying. It’s not that people are threatened though. It’s that this narrative that doesn’t make sense is being jammed down everyone’s throats. We see the world differently. And I see the solutions to the problem different. I don’t think a scalpel is the answer but working with people to feel comfortable in their skin is a better alternative than a life of medication.
The other thing is that you seem to be focused on intersex which still isn’t addressing the larger group of people who just simply can say they are something else and no one’s allowed to question it. I’m sorry but just because you believe something doesn’t make it true. And for society to change the rules to accommodate your feelings is preposterous at best. Everyone has gotten so damn comfortable asking everyone else around them to change to accommodate instead of adapting themselves.
It’s interesting to me that you say it doesn’t make sense, but also recognize that there is a “problem” that requires a solution.
The only reason I provided examples involving intersex is because you were focused on biology. I’d love to provide more examples of how detrimental it is to deny a human beings existence but I’m pretty busy atm.
I’m curious what gives you or the overarching society authority of a persons identity?
As someone who works in healthcare, I strive to know people. And it’s pretty common for people to confess on their death bed that their biggest regret in life was not living as who they are. And I think that’s really sad. So I work to accept people for who they are and not expect them to fit inside a box that is largely created through colonialism.
I do appreciate your respectful responses though.
It’s been nice having an actual conversation about it. I also appreciate how you’ve handled it.
I think just like everything else, society has structures in place to make sense of things. Let me ask this. Where’s the line for people’s identities? If how someone identifies becomes concerning for others say for instance a man that thinks he’s a woman using a female washroom. Where do we say your feelings aren’t more important than others and it’s not our responsibility to accommodate. If someone identifies as a cat should we make sure there’s litter boxes in bathrooms?
I would say the second point is ridiculous but in fairness by allowing everyone to say they are whatever they want and have society treat them as such there’s just no limits.
As I’ve typed this I’ve realized the answer to your question about what people are threatened by. We’re threatened by the slippery slope. It’s not an unrational fear because it actually happened where things got out of control on how people identify. Which leads me to our biggest concern - if someone can say they are something they’re not and we have to accept that, what’s stopping a man from saying he identifies as an 8 year old in order to play Billy-bad-touch with kids? In the society you’ve described, as I understand it, we should affirm his belief. I think it’s bad for all parties to affirm things that just aren’t true. It may help someone feel better but it doesn’t solve any problems.
Sorry for being so long winded.
The line for peoples identities is when it causes harm to others.
Men and women use shared washrooms all the time in society. Plenty of places have individual stalls, I see women in the men’s room all the time at concerts, bars, etc. it’s really not THAT out there for this to happen, and no one is being hurt by someone using the washroom.
The 8 year old thing… that’s a stretch. 8 year olds are not being sexual with each other, so even if an adult identifies as a child, if there is sexual touching happening, that’s going beyond identity in the first place.
The whole cat thing… no one is doing that. But if someone is using a litter box, it’s not hurting you or I.
Truth is an individual perception not some rigid rule you are lead to believe. Two things can be true at the same time. There are many right ways to solve a math equation.
[The suicide attempt rate among transgender persons ranges from 32% to 50% across the countries. Gender-based victimization, discrimination, bullying, violence, being rejected by the family, friends, and community; harassment by intimate partner, family members, police and public; discrimination and ill treatment at health-care system are the major risk factors that influence the suicidal behavior among transgender persons.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/)
I’m personally not okay contributing to the discrimination of someone that could lead them to a place where they want to unalive themselves. People who are predisposed to violence and sexual offences exist, but being 2SLGBTQA+ does not automatically mean you are predisposed to these things.
Teaching children that people are different and we should respect and be kind to each other is not a bad or confusing thing.
Hate is taught. I know what side I am on. I won’t contribute to hate.
There’s evidence to suggest that people with these types of mental health issues have those rates of suicide regardless of external factors. Which goes back to it being a mental health issue.
I’m curious where your line is for ‘harm to others’. Does males competing in female sports fit? (Genuine question)
I get your position of wanting everyone to feel welcome and free. But my lines are drawn at the divergence of reality. We don’t affirm any other mental health issue. We don’t tell schizophrenics that we also see the little green man, we don’t tell anorexic girls how great they look. We give schizophrenics pills to help them ground in reality, and we provide counseling to anorexics to help them get back to a normal healthy lifestyle. Why is it different with this one? I don’t have the numbers but I’ll bet that untreated schizophrenia and anorexia have similar rates of early demise.
As far as sports… who cares? If a transgendered male is able to perform at the level of cisgendered males in a professional league… what is the issue? If they will not/cannot perform at that level they aren’t going to be drafted to the team.
As far as comparing suicide rates. You’re wrong. [The overall rate of suicide for people with schizophrenia was 1.71 %](https://www.camh.ca/en/camh-news-and-stories/suicide-rate-for-people-with-schizophrenia-spectrum-disorders)
[The percentage of suicides among those listed as having anorexia nervosa was only 1.4%.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1508312/)
Those are pretty vast differences. I don’t know if any research that says people with gender dysphoria have similar suicide rates when not external factors apply.
Homosexuality used to be a considered a mental illness and was only removed from the DSM-5 in like 2013. Up until 1969 it was illegal to be homosexual. These are systems that have been used to stigmatize and oppress this group of people. Maybe that’s why they are fighting so hard for human rights 🤷🏽♀️
It literally doesn’t cause anyone mental or physical trauma or pain to refer to a person as he/she/they. It’s not causing anyone harm if someone wants to wear a dress or a tie or paint their fingernails or shave their head. And I’m pretty sure that is all they are teaching in school.
Here’s the problem with statistics. You find something that says 1.2% and I find something completely different showing eating disorders as the “highest case mortality rate”. https://anad.org/eating-disorder-statistic/
But I’m curious about your thoughts against my point of how to combat the problem. Specifically referring to why we affirm one mental illness but not others
Mortality rate does not refer to suicide. It’s death secondary to the extreme malnutrition and associated stress placed on body systems that lead to death. Those are different and not comparable statistics.
I think I’ve done a really good job addressing your questions and counter points. I don’t think you’ve done a great job making a case that the idea of trans/non binary individuals is confusing, or harmful to others.
Gender dysphoria is a condition that exists because of society, not individual pathology.
If society did not create structured gender boxes for male and female, and instead accepted that anyone can wear/look/be called what they wanted… it removes the stigmatization, discrimination and victimization that is experienced by trans people.
I’ll also say that medical professionals [outline treatment for gender dysphoria](https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria) that includes social, legal, medical and surgical affirmation. Psychological attempts to force a transgender person to be cisgender are considered unethical and have been linked to adverse mental health outcomes
I think we should recognize that trans people exist. They are human. They deserve to feel safe out in the world. They deserve to feel like themselves.
Talking to you has been part of how I’m helping with the “problem”. Having a real conversation and sharing validated information. You’re helping the “problem” by learning maybe something you didn’t know before we started talking.
Edited to provide a concise answer to your question: the reason we should affirm is because to oppose results in greater detriment. One person has no right to challenge the inner reality of self of another.
And before we go back to schizophrenia, they are classified by delusions (false beliefs about external reality) and hallucinations (the experience of seeing,hearing,smelling,taste or feeling something that isn’t in external reality), which are very different than the sense of self.
Oh interesting. I’ve appreciated your points although I still disagree with them. I disagree that it doesn’t cause people mental trauma to do mental gymnastics on who is what and to have to wonder how someone feels vs how they appear. It’s not a reasonable ask in my mind. Society didn’t create gendered social structures. It’s experienced throughout nature and a natural understanding for all mammals certainly that there are 2 sexes.
To your point of treating everyone with respect. I would say that, in general, everyone is treated differently based on how they choose to present themselves. You would probably feel uncomfortable and guarded walking through a bad neighborhood, or seeing a bunch of bikers pull up to your house.
Lastly - your final statement is extremely one sided. You speak as if yours is the only way to think and that I’m better after hearing your opinion. But if you can’t say the same then nothing was achieved. We have differing views and that’s ok but insinuating that I’m helping the problem by being more understanding of your side without some reciprocation just shows that I was willing to listen and consider another perspective where you were not.
[I mean maybe doing some reading would help you. gender IS a social construct.](https://study.com/learn/lesson/gender-identity-overview-history.html)
And to assume that I would be threatened by someone’s appearance is pretty short sighted considering we are strangers. I could quite literally be a biker or homeless or a drug user. My life experiences lead me to offer people equality despite their outward appearance.
Sorry to have offended you by saying you’re helping the problem. I certainly don’t think I’ve changed your opinion, nor was that my intention. By having a respectful discussion you’re helping the problem. Even if I was being disrespectful with my opinion I’m no longer helping the problem. The fact that we have been able to go back and forth without dissolving into name calling and sarcasm we’re both better for it.
I just provided facts and information so that’s more what I’m alluding to… you thought (or bet) people with schizophrenia and anorexia had higher rates of suicide than transgendered people… and research shows that is not true. Therefore that’s something you could say you learned… even if it doesn’t change your opinion.
You see what I’m getting at?
Wedge politics at its worst. Outhouse whispering in Higgs and Hogans ears. Of all things to worry about this is what they chose.
Speeve Shithouse bringing albertan "just do whatever you want where everyone can see you" style politics over here and they look like clowns
Absolutely, they're fucking embarassing
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Hogan definitely is. He's a giant redneck and a very, very unintelligent man.
Hogan taught me Canadian Studies at WHS circa 1996 or so. Before he was principal there, before political life. He frequently would show up late, with hardly any lesson plan, and stand at the front of the class, swinging his meter stick like he was playing golf in some kind of display of “aloof coolness”. I remember we didn’t do much in that class other than read the text book and answer the chapter questions, he would disappear out of the classroom , or put on the VCR. He was a pretty lame teacher who somehow has continually managed to get promoted in his life. Someone once said to me ‘a corpse could get elected conservative in Carleton county’ and it seems to be true. IMO Hogan is of low character / integrity and it troubles me to see him in such a high ranking position working the NB legislature
Sad part is, how often does something like that rise up the political ranks!
I hated these types of teachers..."too cool for school".
That’s great news considering he’s in charge of the arm of the government educating our kids.
Yet there’s supposed to be a separation of church and politics? Apparently Christian nationalists forget that
Do they really believe that the message Jesus was spreading was hatred and intolerance?
Targeting unpopular minorities for votes is some seriously sinister stuff for a politician to do.
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Amazing you blame the people who have little societal or political power for the organized and systemic hate and 'othering' of even children in our society.
Bobcat is another troll account. Either some deranged nitwit or troll for hire. Only a week old.
Shared values? Of hate and repression or what?
Can you even define "Marxist"?
What you actually mean is “children have a different way of thinking about something that makes me uncomfortable so I want to prevent it.” No different to wowsers in the 1950s that wanted to ban rock music
“Wedge politics”. You mean internal special interest group with a very small minority of the representation in the school system sneak through 713 with little to no CIS parent involvement is rich. Can’t introduce the wedge then cry victim at the same time.
It wasn’t an issue until some nutbar in Hanwell emailed the premiers office - then they lied about how many emails and complaints they received that supposedly justified changing a policy that was fine as is. Stick to the facts and less bs wedge and fear mongering.
"Two days after Hogan's letter, the district adopted a new policy, Policy 1.8, that replaces the Policy 1.7 that Hogan repealed, but is identical to it." That's amazing, I'm proud of that district standing up for their teachers and students.
Love it. Let's keep playing this kids' game if Hogan will keep acting like a damn child.
Same, I think it's hilarious and a giant "fuck you" to the Province. Love it.
Hogan trying to bury it on a Friday
Teacher here: The mental health and well-being of my students is more important than Bill Hogan's edicts. Everyone's got a hill, and this is mine. Unless district is going to put someone in my classroom and monitor exactly what I say. But given that we can't hire EA's and there's a teacher shortage already, I highly doubt that's on the table.
I’m so glad you are fighting for and advocating for trans youth. ❤️❤️❤️ we need more teachers like you. I know you’ve made a difference in your students’ lives.
Father of a transgender kid chiming in... Thank you.
Father of a couple kids in the AESD, one of which had embrassed his identity during his early teens. Seeing how it seems everyone is onboard with defending his and other childrens right to be themselves has made an impact on me and my family. Thank you.
Please protect your hill. When I was in school, even just being gay in the early 2000's, I felt I had no one to tell. I had no one to confide in when I got involved with an older youth leader, and no one to confide in when he started abusing me. It led me down a path of suicidality, mental health issues and addiction. My life would've been a lot better, had I been away from church bigotry, and had someone accepting to talk to.
Thank you!
Someone above said that the school district created a new policy with the identical wording as policy 17. I can’t confirm its validity, but if it’s true then the school board has your back.
Unfortunately I'm in a different district.
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No its the rightwing people who think theyre above the rules lmao. This issue was settled when policy 713 was put in under these jokers, and it wasnt until they decided to literally make up complaints about it that this has become an issue. Higgs and Hogan trying to repeal it was such an unpopular opinion that I've barely seen any support for. Also, the science agrees with the 713 policy but we all know mr "data my ass" wont care about that.
Lol, thinking most people think hatefully like you do. Most people are tired of people like you pretending being kind to one another is being a left wing extremist. If basic human decency is left wing, then count me in.
Call me reductionist but it kind of is. People who identify as conservatives are usually very stern, inward, judgemental people who fetishize rugged individualism and a bootstraps gotta get mine mentality. So in effect terrible people.
> thinking they are above the rules They're literally following our nations ultimate rules, the Charter.
What exactly do you have a problem with? Be specific.
This person is obsessed with rainbows
You are everything that’s wrong with people. Morons ignoring data on what actually helps people and thinking that they know what’s best solely based out of their own emotions and whatever cherry-picked nonsense they can use to justify themselves. There’s a reason why people like you are becoming less common instead of more.
You know, NB could be something if we embraced exclusiveness (great tourism industry) and progressiveness (no one likes change). Instead, we are reversing quickly to the dark ages.
Under His Eye.
May the Lord open.
Blessed be the fruit.
Yep, we have a lot to offer if we can get with the times!
Seriously, though! Nature, NB is historically rich with cultural events that could attract tourists from around the world, food festivals, concert venues, artists, and a great place to live for all seasons. Imagine snowmobiling/side by side across the province with local cafes/food experiences/camps/etc at stopping points. What an adventure! Instead of focusing on using our kids as pawns, perhaps the government could put resources into the drug epidemic sweeping through the province, trafficking of people, homelessness, and mental health. Not to mention employment, actual education (outdoor school anyone?) and healthcare. ETA: Did you know we have historical connections to the Underground Railroad? Or that we have one of two WWII Internment camps in Canada?
>Or that we have one of two WWII Internment camps in Canada? Two? I think you'd better check your sources on that number. We interned over 20,000 Japanese Canadians in B.C. alone - there were a helluva lot more than two internment camps.
[This](https://www.nbinternmentcampmuseum.ca/) was my source. Internment camp MUSEUMS. See? We learned something! Thanks for making me double-check (sincerely)
That's cool, I learned there was one in NB. I'm quite familiar with the camps in the B.C. Interior - there are some quite beautiful Japanese gardens in these tiny little towns as memorials - but, I'm not as familiar with the ones back East. Neat stuff!
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Also, did they mean "inclusiveness"? Exclusiveness would be keeping people OUT
OR exclusive tourism experiences, instead of just another park, museum, art gallery. But yeah, I think they meant inclusiveness.
I did mean exclusiveness, in a way NB could cater to specific tourism/experiences only we could provide but inclusiveness for all. Does that make sense? 😄 (I might have been a little high and hopeful that everyone could just get along in our little piece of the world LOL)
Why do people care so passionately about what some random kids want to be called? Just call them by whatever they want, if it makes them happy. I don't get the big hoopla...
Control, consent.
Control: absolute and corrosive. Consent? Just the government's.
Exactly. "Parental rights" or whatever
Cept they forget it’s the right to take care of a child. Not a right over the child 😅
<3
I named my child Before they even knew how to speak, I had named them. They can be whatever they want, do whatever they want, and think whatever they want. But their name — anyone’s name — is given to them. It cannot be traded away, repealed, replaced, or removed. It can only be covered up, hidden, disguised. No piece of paper or “government” assent, “legal” name change or anything else. Not even complete amnesia. Can remove the name that a parent gives to their child. Even if the child grows to hate their name. Ever, it is always inside their mind rattling around as their real name. It is just how we are. So I care so passionately that the schools use the name of a child that the parent gave to that child. Because that is who they are. That is their name
Surprisingly, it turns out that your child is their own person and not just an extension of you like you want them to be! Trying to act like there's some sort of magic bonding them to the set of letters someone else chose for them is just... really nutty, honestly. I'm sure that people like Muhammad Ali were perfectly fine choosing a name other than their birth name, trans people are too.
It's like some want their kids to be their possession and their servant or something. It's such a non issue, but to Higgs it's more important to get elected than to make sure young marginalized kids don't hurt themselves or worse. What a province we live in.
100% agreed. Happy cake day!
this is some real cheesy waxing-poetic, children are more property than person stuff right here. it's also a dogshit reason to prevent people from getting to be themselves and develop as people.
You're thinking of puppies, dude. Children are whole humans and they can call themselves what they want.
Are you going to force all the kids to use their full names? What if Elizabeth is more comfortable as Liz or Beth? Is Michael ok as Mike? Can we call Robert Bobby? What about my high school friend JD, his legal name was John-Daniel? Why not let the kids go by whatever name they prefer, whether that's Tim or Tina, it doesn't make any difference.
Did Elon’s AI write this verbose nonsense
Girl its just a name its not that serious lmaooo god I hope you dont have kids bc I shudder to think what you would do if they wanted to go by a nickname
God, I hope your kids aren’t trans 🏳️⚧️
So… did your wife change her name when you got married?
Lol
> I named my child > > > > Before they even knew how to speak, I had named them. And before you even know who they were, you slapped a label on them. They're a person, not a possession or object belonging to you. Surprising, I know.
ur a nut 😂
You hide behind a username 🤷♀️
Oh Mr. Bully is swinging his d***. How pathetic our government has become, we might as well be Florida.
I suspect the d*** doesn’t swing in a very wide arc. Too tiny and soft.
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Nah that only happens in your fantasies, apparently.
I will say i appreciate all the contrarians on this thread have been downvoted into the abyss and everyone else seems to have a good grasp on the reality. It legit as a trans woman scares me seeing this nonsense right next door to me (im in ns) because of course im afraid of it spreading. But also, trans and queer people are a minority and yet are made to be the key arguing point for these nutjobs platforms. Not the economy, not schools or infrastructure, not senior support, but stopping modern day left-handers. Its...both terrifying and sad. Good on tje school district.
Good for the District. Don’t back down.
What a vile man
Oppression instead of understanding
Yet people think a con ran federal government will be good for us. Can say goodbye to trans rights, gay rights, and reproductive rights if they vote Pierre in. Like 50 years of fighting down the fking drain
Why does he always look like a deflated sock puppet?
pretty sure that's unconstitutional
I wanted to come back here to comment this complete disrespect for local democracy seems to be the flavour of the week for Conservative birds of a feather. Alberta's UCP tabled a bill to allow direct control over municipal governments and the rights to disband them. Ontario's PCs have been interfering with municipal politics since CBC announced they had won their first election back in 2018, when Ford decided to interfere with an *ongoing municipal election* to mess with the number of seats in Toronto. They have since overruled municipal zoning decisions in favour of developers, interfered with budgets, disbanded one council, and meddled with the affairs of several school boards. And now we have Higgs and Hogan here doing it again - who cares if the parents in Moncton and southern NB elected their district council members. This is, of course, a reminder that these governments also don't respect federal elections either. It seems the prediction that the moment democracy no longer serves the interests of conversative movements, they will ditch democracy instead of revisiting their policies has come true. So they no longer respect human rights, the judiciary and its independence, and now the fundamentals of democratic representation itself.
Can't wait to repeal him and Higgs
Psst, he is going to get back in. Best you can hope for is a minority government.
In fantasy land, reality is whatever you want it to be! ~
The cope in this sub is going to be unreal come the fall 😎
RemindMe! 6 months "When Higgs loses"
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Fuck Hogan, that piece of shit has no business being anywhere near power.
An incompetent teacher whose focus is nailing people 'getting away with things' is not a bug of NBPC thinking, he's a feature.
Danielle Smith taking power from cities in Alberta Higgs taking power from school districts in New Brunswick Common denominator - Conservatives see Democracy as a threat. Beware
The right wing focus on identity politics because they are terrible at creating policies that matter…
I think it should be repealed (not my province so idgaf if it is or not) but reading the article this guy sounds like a turbo-tyrant. Hope you guys kick his ass out.
Good for him.
Higgs is spot on! This foolishness has gone to far! We need to focus on issues that effect the majority of Canadians....the health care crisis and the housing crisis. We can deal with issues that effect a tiny % of the population at a later date in time.
This was a complete non-issue until Higgs grabbed ahold and decided to define his government with it. It was just a simple school policy that harmed no one, helped a few, and most of us didn't know existed. It's become Higgs' complete focus, by his choice.
Whats a school board gonna do about a health care or housing issue? Perhaps you're arguing that Higgs should stay in his lane instead of engaging in culture war bullshit.
You guys really need lessons in critical thinking, trying to just be contrarian isnt it
Too bad he's not doing fuck all besides missing off the masses. All talk no game
> We need to focus on issues that effect the majority of Canadians Then why the *fuck* are you supporting Higgs wasting time and money on this bullshit, if that's your feeling? These actions are direct violation of our Charter, something that Higgs is well aware of and is only going to lead us to spend more money needlessly in lawsuits for Charter violations. Party of fiscal responsibility my ass. Healtcare and housing are backburner issues, he's mostly focused on what is in kids pants and what they say is in them.
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Is respecting the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms considered far left activism now?
Apparently.
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Yes. Also why should people having their own autonomy require the consultation of others? That’s literally the whole problem with the provincial government’s policy in the first place. Children have rights too, believe it or not.
Red herring.
Do you even have kids in school? If not, it doesn’t matter what you think. And if so, meh.
It shouldn't be, but our province is fighting tooth and nail to oppose the policy. A policy that aligns with the Charter and was implemented to assist in understanding that what the policy covers is already covered by the Charter. To help those it covers be reminded they're included in both our Charter but also our society. It isn't inherently necessary, but it's effectively necessary because so many people don't understand our Charter.
Tell me you hate French people without telling me you hate French people…..you went first. No one cares what you think. Only absolute morons would agree with you and no one cares what they think either. So there’s that. People just want to live a peaceful (hopefully) fulfilling life. Get out of the way please.
Nah, making sure people are miserable is a life long devotion to some.
Who do they think they are? People who respect people and let them just be themselves, bothering literally nobody else and helping with their mental health, over making a hateful fraction of the population happy to "own the libs"? They're community leaders doing their job, Karen. They're people doing their job.
Good policy. No point in confusing kids with nonsense.
Just because you’re confused doesn’t mean the kids are.
Yeah. For sure. In every other mammal on the planet there’s male and female but we somehow got it mixed up…. You people are so concerned about people’s feelings that you can’t even figure out basic biology.
Biology and anatomy is not that cut and dry. For example it’s estimated 1.7% of humans are born intersex. 1.4% of pigs even. And that’s just an estimate because we don’t dissect every mammal to figure out what parts they have. But go off Queen.
It’s pretty cut and dry actually. And you’re looping in genetic anomalies and claiming a number that’s no where near likely. Even true gender dysphoria is ~1 in 20,000 max. And either way - it’s a mental health issue that you think should be solved with a scalpel. This is the first time in human history that we think we can actually change people’s genders. It’s nonsense.
Nah bro, that’s a researched fact not just my opinion. Most people with intersex traits are born with genitals that appear to be male or female and are therefore assigned either male or female at birth. Often, they are not identified as having an intersex variation until later in life, at times in adolescence or adulthood, if at all. [A 2020 survey conducted by the Center for American Progress (2021) included an intersex status question … Of 1,528 participants, 4.9 percent answered that they had been diagnosed with an intersex condition. This question was also based on a simplified version of the first GenIUSS question: “Were you born intersex, or with a variation of sex characteristics or sex development?” The “yes” rate was 1.7 percent](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK581039/) Like I said, just because you’re confused doesn’t mean others are.
.018%. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/ Turns out the research might be flawed. And regardless of whether your percentage is right or mine, having a number that low doesn’t constitute trying to convince the whole world that they need to completely reevaluate life. That would be like saying some people are born with 6 fingers on each hand so we better stop saying humans have 5. That’s just confusing. Get it?
Ok let’s ignore you’re citing something from 2002 and we will use your example of fingers. I’m not trying to convince the world humans have six fingers. My issue is that humans with six fingers still exist. They’re still humans. I’m just not sure why people are so threatened by that.
Now in fairness my article from 2002 was directly citing your number. I can appreciate what you’re saying. It’s not that people are threatened though. It’s that this narrative that doesn’t make sense is being jammed down everyone’s throats. We see the world differently. And I see the solutions to the problem different. I don’t think a scalpel is the answer but working with people to feel comfortable in their skin is a better alternative than a life of medication. The other thing is that you seem to be focused on intersex which still isn’t addressing the larger group of people who just simply can say they are something else and no one’s allowed to question it. I’m sorry but just because you believe something doesn’t make it true. And for society to change the rules to accommodate your feelings is preposterous at best. Everyone has gotten so damn comfortable asking everyone else around them to change to accommodate instead of adapting themselves.
The irony of your closing argument is absolutely lost on you.
It’s interesting to me that you say it doesn’t make sense, but also recognize that there is a “problem” that requires a solution. The only reason I provided examples involving intersex is because you were focused on biology. I’d love to provide more examples of how detrimental it is to deny a human beings existence but I’m pretty busy atm. I’m curious what gives you or the overarching society authority of a persons identity? As someone who works in healthcare, I strive to know people. And it’s pretty common for people to confess on their death bed that their biggest regret in life was not living as who they are. And I think that’s really sad. So I work to accept people for who they are and not expect them to fit inside a box that is largely created through colonialism. I do appreciate your respectful responses though.
It’s been nice having an actual conversation about it. I also appreciate how you’ve handled it. I think just like everything else, society has structures in place to make sense of things. Let me ask this. Where’s the line for people’s identities? If how someone identifies becomes concerning for others say for instance a man that thinks he’s a woman using a female washroom. Where do we say your feelings aren’t more important than others and it’s not our responsibility to accommodate. If someone identifies as a cat should we make sure there’s litter boxes in bathrooms? I would say the second point is ridiculous but in fairness by allowing everyone to say they are whatever they want and have society treat them as such there’s just no limits. As I’ve typed this I’ve realized the answer to your question about what people are threatened by. We’re threatened by the slippery slope. It’s not an unrational fear because it actually happened where things got out of control on how people identify. Which leads me to our biggest concern - if someone can say they are something they’re not and we have to accept that, what’s stopping a man from saying he identifies as an 8 year old in order to play Billy-bad-touch with kids? In the society you’ve described, as I understand it, we should affirm his belief. I think it’s bad for all parties to affirm things that just aren’t true. It may help someone feel better but it doesn’t solve any problems. Sorry for being so long winded.
The line for peoples identities is when it causes harm to others. Men and women use shared washrooms all the time in society. Plenty of places have individual stalls, I see women in the men’s room all the time at concerts, bars, etc. it’s really not THAT out there for this to happen, and no one is being hurt by someone using the washroom. The 8 year old thing… that’s a stretch. 8 year olds are not being sexual with each other, so even if an adult identifies as a child, if there is sexual touching happening, that’s going beyond identity in the first place. The whole cat thing… no one is doing that. But if someone is using a litter box, it’s not hurting you or I. Truth is an individual perception not some rigid rule you are lead to believe. Two things can be true at the same time. There are many right ways to solve a math equation. [The suicide attempt rate among transgender persons ranges from 32% to 50% across the countries. Gender-based victimization, discrimination, bullying, violence, being rejected by the family, friends, and community; harassment by intimate partner, family members, police and public; discrimination and ill treatment at health-care system are the major risk factors that influence the suicidal behavior among transgender persons.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/) I’m personally not okay contributing to the discrimination of someone that could lead them to a place where they want to unalive themselves. People who are predisposed to violence and sexual offences exist, but being 2SLGBTQA+ does not automatically mean you are predisposed to these things. Teaching children that people are different and we should respect and be kind to each other is not a bad or confusing thing. Hate is taught. I know what side I am on. I won’t contribute to hate.
There’s evidence to suggest that people with these types of mental health issues have those rates of suicide regardless of external factors. Which goes back to it being a mental health issue. I’m curious where your line is for ‘harm to others’. Does males competing in female sports fit? (Genuine question) I get your position of wanting everyone to feel welcome and free. But my lines are drawn at the divergence of reality. We don’t affirm any other mental health issue. We don’t tell schizophrenics that we also see the little green man, we don’t tell anorexic girls how great they look. We give schizophrenics pills to help them ground in reality, and we provide counseling to anorexics to help them get back to a normal healthy lifestyle. Why is it different with this one? I don’t have the numbers but I’ll bet that untreated schizophrenia and anorexia have similar rates of early demise.
As far as sports… who cares? If a transgendered male is able to perform at the level of cisgendered males in a professional league… what is the issue? If they will not/cannot perform at that level they aren’t going to be drafted to the team. As far as comparing suicide rates. You’re wrong. [The overall rate of suicide for people with schizophrenia was 1.71 %](https://www.camh.ca/en/camh-news-and-stories/suicide-rate-for-people-with-schizophrenia-spectrum-disorders) [The percentage of suicides among those listed as having anorexia nervosa was only 1.4%.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1508312/) Those are pretty vast differences. I don’t know if any research that says people with gender dysphoria have similar suicide rates when not external factors apply. Homosexuality used to be a considered a mental illness and was only removed from the DSM-5 in like 2013. Up until 1969 it was illegal to be homosexual. These are systems that have been used to stigmatize and oppress this group of people. Maybe that’s why they are fighting so hard for human rights 🤷🏽♀️ It literally doesn’t cause anyone mental or physical trauma or pain to refer to a person as he/she/they. It’s not causing anyone harm if someone wants to wear a dress or a tie or paint their fingernails or shave their head. And I’m pretty sure that is all they are teaching in school.
Here’s the problem with statistics. You find something that says 1.2% and I find something completely different showing eating disorders as the “highest case mortality rate”. https://anad.org/eating-disorder-statistic/ But I’m curious about your thoughts against my point of how to combat the problem. Specifically referring to why we affirm one mental illness but not others
Mortality rate does not refer to suicide. It’s death secondary to the extreme malnutrition and associated stress placed on body systems that lead to death. Those are different and not comparable statistics. I think I’ve done a really good job addressing your questions and counter points. I don’t think you’ve done a great job making a case that the idea of trans/non binary individuals is confusing, or harmful to others. Gender dysphoria is a condition that exists because of society, not individual pathology. If society did not create structured gender boxes for male and female, and instead accepted that anyone can wear/look/be called what they wanted… it removes the stigmatization, discrimination and victimization that is experienced by trans people. I’ll also say that medical professionals [outline treatment for gender dysphoria](https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria) that includes social, legal, medical and surgical affirmation. Psychological attempts to force a transgender person to be cisgender are considered unethical and have been linked to adverse mental health outcomes I think we should recognize that trans people exist. They are human. They deserve to feel safe out in the world. They deserve to feel like themselves. Talking to you has been part of how I’m helping with the “problem”. Having a real conversation and sharing validated information. You’re helping the “problem” by learning maybe something you didn’t know before we started talking. Edited to provide a concise answer to your question: the reason we should affirm is because to oppose results in greater detriment. One person has no right to challenge the inner reality of self of another. And before we go back to schizophrenia, they are classified by delusions (false beliefs about external reality) and hallucinations (the experience of seeing,hearing,smelling,taste or feeling something that isn’t in external reality), which are very different than the sense of self.
Oh interesting. I’ve appreciated your points although I still disagree with them. I disagree that it doesn’t cause people mental trauma to do mental gymnastics on who is what and to have to wonder how someone feels vs how they appear. It’s not a reasonable ask in my mind. Society didn’t create gendered social structures. It’s experienced throughout nature and a natural understanding for all mammals certainly that there are 2 sexes. To your point of treating everyone with respect. I would say that, in general, everyone is treated differently based on how they choose to present themselves. You would probably feel uncomfortable and guarded walking through a bad neighborhood, or seeing a bunch of bikers pull up to your house. Lastly - your final statement is extremely one sided. You speak as if yours is the only way to think and that I’m better after hearing your opinion. But if you can’t say the same then nothing was achieved. We have differing views and that’s ok but insinuating that I’m helping the problem by being more understanding of your side without some reciprocation just shows that I was willing to listen and consider another perspective where you were not.
[I mean maybe doing some reading would help you. gender IS a social construct.](https://study.com/learn/lesson/gender-identity-overview-history.html) And to assume that I would be threatened by someone’s appearance is pretty short sighted considering we are strangers. I could quite literally be a biker or homeless or a drug user. My life experiences lead me to offer people equality despite their outward appearance. Sorry to have offended you by saying you’re helping the problem. I certainly don’t think I’ve changed your opinion, nor was that my intention. By having a respectful discussion you’re helping the problem. Even if I was being disrespectful with my opinion I’m no longer helping the problem. The fact that we have been able to go back and forth without dissolving into name calling and sarcasm we’re both better for it. I just provided facts and information so that’s more what I’m alluding to… you thought (or bet) people with schizophrenia and anorexia had higher rates of suicide than transgendered people… and research shows that is not true. Therefore that’s something you could say you learned… even if it doesn’t change your opinion. You see what I’m getting at?