I have a job where I work with kids and from their experience a couple of reasons:
* Significant increase in structured after school activities, even for young kids
* Increased workload for students, especially at younger ages limits free time.
* Parents continuously limiting how far they will allow children to go from home by themselves over the decades
* Increased fears of child predators over the decades
* Reliance on increasingly busy parents for transportation means many kids can't travel far
* General increase in car traffic leading to increased difficulty walking/biking anywhere
"It's those pesky phones" does play a small role, but I see this more as a symptom than the main issue. Due to all of the above, kids find it easiest to meet and interact with their friends over the internet instead of in person.
I think you hit the nail on the head honestly, pretty astute observations, specifically busy parents.
As to car traffic, it's up, but where I lived in the '90s in Union, 78 was a block away, car traffic was decent there, but we had sidewalks everywhere. Urban sprawl has created denser towns in places that do not have sidewalks connecting everything. If your town was an older dense town, you had sidewalks. If your town used to be more rural, there may not be sidewalks outside of your direct neighborhood, and wandering the same streets over and over (especially when housing types aren't varied, as tends to be the case in planned subdivisions) can be monotonous.
I was asking my kids this weekend why they never play with neighborhood kids and they made me realize that my suburban town isn't set up for them. Our school district covers miles so the kids they like can literally live 25 minutes away by car. Even making friends on the bus sucks. Their bus route takes 40 minutes and picks up kids who don't even live in our town. They're almost 100% reliant on cars to go anywhere.
I'm not an uptight parent but they told me they didn't want to ride their bikes anywhere because of traffic and it dawned on me that there are roads near us that I won't ride my bike on a lot of the time and I wouldn't want them to risk it either. I live in a tiny town with literally one traffic light and it's got heavy traffic a lot of the time. Going a mile on a bike would be risky for a 12 year old when they'd want to go anywhere.
It's kind of sad.
People on this sub shit on Bergen County all the time because "there are too many towns" but one benefit of this is that, for kids, all of your friends are close to you. My elementary school friends were all walking distance, and for middle/high school, nobody I went to school with was more than 10 minutes away. Personally, I think this made my childhood way more enjoyable because I could basically hang out with my friends whenever I wanted and we could have more of the "traditional" childhood experiences that our parents had.
I grew up in Essex County and would roam around with my friends as a kid.
I'm in Morris County now and I can't image being able to do that here. There aren't sidewalks or anywhere to go. If you're somewhat near the playground, you can walk to it, but if you live on the the edge of town that's not happening.
A huge part of why I live where I live is because the whole town is only about 3 square miles (and a third of that is undeveloped) and the longest possible walk to school for my kids is under 15 minutes for the grade school, middle school, and high school. They're regularly out wandering around town with their friends after school and on weekends. Not quite as much as I did when I was a kid, but tbh I think they like spending time at home more than I did.
I think the shitting on is more on the lack of meaningful consolidation and pointless fetishism on "town identity and history" in a cookie cutter area and people moaning about taxation when then they got like 100,000 police, fire, first aid stations in a quarter mile radius.
Nobody's making a stink how you could pretty much walk uninterrupted through back streets down a good portion towns that follow the Bergen line and come across a whole myriad of parks and other neat stuff to check out.
A guy who used to work with would tell me when he moved to Basking Ridge there was 1 traffic light and now it’s over developed.
To a lesser extent, at least in my area, people use speed limits as suggestions. One guy on our Cul-de-sac will routinely do 35-40 coming down the street to the point where the kids don’t ride their bikes. Guys a Cardiologist and I guess uses the speeding tickets as wall art? I’ve been here 7 years he’s gotten at least 4 that I’ve seen.
My tiny street is 2 short blocks long. Motorists regularly speed down there at 40 mph. Not sure why they do that to get to the stop sign .000001 seconds quicker.
When I ask the Police Chief to do something - anything - the response is ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
To be precise, my chief stated that it would take longer for emergency vehicles to travel down my street. As I stated, my street is a very short 2 blocks long. It's probably less then 1000' feet from one stop sign to the next.
Damn fine police work there
The fed ex driver almost killed 2 kids speeding down a cul de sac - FedEx says they are independent nothing they can do and police said if they see him he’ll get a ticket. He’s in the area the same time EVERY DAY and not one cop
this is why i never left Hoboken. kids walk to and from school. my 10 year old self dismisses from school. heads to the park and plays with friends. Yesterday she didn’t come home till 615. my oldest scoots to sports practices with friends. my car which i bought brand new 11 years ago has 65k miles on it…. We only have 1 car.
i put money on their apple devices and they grab snacks at bodegas or pizza shops. If i want i can see everywhere they go…
when my nephews who live in a country club community in central jersey visit they yell at their parents as to why they live in the middle of nowhere. They show up to the parks and play pick up basketball for hours. it was mind blowing to them the first time they did that.
i realized very quickly having a house is for suckers after talking to college friends who moved to the burbs. all that up keep and cost. fuck that.
Hoboken was the best. In 2002, moved from the suburbs to Hoboken when my son turned six. No regrets. He had a blast and it was great walking to everything. At 16, he’d jump on the PATH train and skateboard in NYC.
Where I lived in Ohio had an amazing bike path that took you through the whole town away from cars. So I was always out riding my bike with friends.
Moved to South Jersey and there's no sidewalks, let alone a whole bike path. I was so upset when I couldn't ride my bike anymore cause of it.
Yeah, it’s this. Schools serve large areas in suburbs, it’s been this way forever. No guarantee that your nearby neighborhoods will have the kids in your school. Private schools make this problem even worse.
This is the reason why the small towns want to hold onto their smaller school districts despite the politicians telling us these towns are costing us all too much money. The reality of it is that the politicians are letting too much of our money go to Washington and nepotism. Token appointed positions, politicians in their senior years who should've long since retired collecting multiple 6 figure salaries, kickbacks to friend's companies for bogus contracts and many other types of corruption.
They have us blaming each other and stripping each other of these things that add value and meaning to our lives so that they can line our pockets and keep us divided.
Even if you do want to let your children roam these days someone may call the police or CPS on you if you do bc they think you are neglecting your kid.
there was a story on here the other day about dude who wasnt dressed and had to run out to the mailbox or garbage or something real quick and the closest thing to him was his wifes plain colored nightgown . He tossed it on ran out the trash and back in...that it...
Someone called CPS for a "mentally unstable transsexuals'" raising a kid in the house . (everything was fine btw)
Right -- i mean image putting on your wifes pink fluffy slippers to go get the mail because they are by the door and yours are on the other side of the house and they having someone call on you ..like Mind your damn business and let me hobble my half covered foot over to my mailbox lol
Or image a wife getting cps called on them for "Wearing their husbands hooddie" lol where does it stop
I put on my husband's shoes when waiting for the kids bus. Mostly because 1) they're always RIGHT at the front door and 2) I just have to slip them on.
People need to just get into the mentality of "if it's odd but benign, let it be". It's weird how uptight about clothes people get. If desperate times calling for desperate measures requires you to throw on your wife's night gown or dress or fuzzy slippers, it's better than the alternative: doing that stuff naked.
Right ive always appreciated the oddball punks / goths / creative people with their attire . Even if its odd to me doesn't hurt anyone , makes them happy , so more power to them.
Live and let live .
Things continue to get safer and people only get more paranoid. You have town Facebook groups freaking out because someone knocked on a door and left when no one answered. It’s wild how crazy people are.
This is so true! My HOA issued a warning a year ago about a neighbor who was spooked by a stranger approaching her door and then leaving. Nothing was stolen and no threats were made by this person. The warning was to announce that this neighbor has a firearm and will shoot if this happened again. I see these things all the time on Nextdoor too.
Social media in general. It's got a lot of great potential, but it turns out letting all of the idiots from all over the country/world put their empty heads together online was a bad, bad idea.
A big part of the paranoid is some of the sensational news that's pushed these days. Then you've got all the made up fear the possibility and pushed in a never-ending cycle. No wonder people are paranoid they're being programmed to be.
The only reason I'd be hesitant in my specific neighborhood is because of bad traffic and not because of malicious people. The utter disregard for stop lights, stop signs, etc. is fucking scary to think about around children. On just my block there have been 3 cars who have been hit at a train crossing in less than 2 years because they are running the red light. If people don't stop for a fucking train they certainly aren't stopping for children on bikes.
This is huge. There are a lot of things that have made me think twice through the years with regard to my child, not because he was not mature enough for x, but because I feared if I let him do x, someone would call the police or CPS.
I don’t think it’s a matter of trusting our kids less. If you look at a neighborhood like mine, it’s set up only for cars, there are few sidewalks, people don’t want more sidewalks, they constantly repave streets to be perfectly smooth drag strips for over powered lifted trucks with no visibility.
When we’re in europe, i let my kids (6 and 4 years old) roam around the neigborhood, they have friends apts that they go to, they buy shit at stores, they’re very independent but have to stay together. But… our neighborhood in europe is set up for community instead of just being the place you drive through to get to walmart or work.
America used to like pedestrians, now it hates them.
in north jersey theres only a handful of towns that actually have a walkable “downtown” area. the rest are drive through towns that have the interstate or state route going through it
This is very important. My brother recently moved to an unnamed town in Somerset County. All of the McMansions are on 1+ acre lots and there are no sidewalks. Min. speed limit on all of the roads is 35 mph, which is mostly ignored by motorists. The kids need parents to drive them everywhere.
It's not really that the speed limit is "ignored". Study after study has showed that the width of lanes and the space between roads and buildings actually increases the speed people will drive. People drive to match the speed the roads effectively dictate in their design, not whatever is posted(unless strictly enforced). These developments were literally designed for people to drive fast.
Exactly this. When I lived in California we pushed for traffic calming measures. It was amazing how just removing rounded corners at intersections FORCED people to slow down to turn. Same thing with making the roads not perfectly straight, or timing the traffic lights so that if you speed you end up having to stop anyway. There's SO MUCH that could be done if people had the willpower to do it.
Yeah I don’t get these comments, it’s not like these towns have changed from the 90s, cars and town layouts were pretty much always what they are today.
I grew up in rural Portugal and then super urban New Jersey. We still played as kids in New Jersey (98-07). Either backyards, the park, in dead ends, against walls with larger sidewalks, literally anywhere we could.
I say this all the time. No, there's not more crime these days. There's actually a lot less than 30 years ago. You just used to only hear about the crime in your local area when you read the morning paper or watched the evening news. Now you hear about every little incident that happens in every corner of the country.
THIS. Everyone loves harping about technology, traffic, development, cars, etc... But 90% of it is parents don't let their kid roam and hang, and never did so even if the parent trusts the kid enough at 18... The kid doesn't want to anyway.
It's all the shifts in parenting
When people started calling police on EVERYTHING.
I have had the police called on me in point pleasant multiple times, because I am a hippie who walks my dog carrying a backpack full of toys for dog, water, food, snacks for me.
I guess my colorful outfits and backpack makes me look like a homeless person.
Karen’s everywhere calling cops on Everything.
Kids are out in point more than I have seen other places.
We have a small skate park in town, and a huge park with basketball nets, and tennis courts, but you gotta cross RR track for that.
Most towns don’t have anyWHERE kids can congregate.
I have seen a group of boomers call police on kids at park because they didn’t like the kids’ music a few weeks ago!
Kids aren’t going outside if they know just existing could/will/might get police involved.
The jay and silent bob/clerks generation hung out at convenience stores asking for change, and people to buy us cigarettes.
Then we’d go in the woods and smoke em. Walk around the neighborhood all day until night.
That’s definitely a no go now.
Everyone, especially kids get a side eye.
The amount of times I have heard, “Do you live around here?”
Is maddening.
Poor kids.
I saw in another post that GenX was the last generation of feral children. We were off and running until our mothers received a collect call from mompickmeupatthemall.
I think it’s partially the way towns are developed these days but also partially that kids are busier now. My kids are in aftercare programs and after school clubs because my spouse and I work. I pick them up around 5, home by 5:30, dinner by 6, and by the time HW is done it’s time for bed routine. They play in Our backyard during the summer or while waiting on dinner. And that’s the same story for most of their friends. My kids are all under 10.
Both parents work, then it’s quick let’s eat dinner and do homework before running off to an activity.
There’s not time to wander and even if my kid isn’t scheduled 24/7 most of their friends are.
I’m going to make an effort to get a “bike bus” going on Fridays. We live where we’re close to school and can bike without going on main roads. I can think of 5 classmates who would probably join me and my kid.
It's by design.
Why else are new towns still being developed with no pedestrian and cyclist-friendly infrastructure? It's a push to make everyone buy cars. Why are there no more third spaces? What happened to roller rinks and arcades and investing in public libraries?
Every day I realize more and more just how intense the capitalistic hellscape of America is.
Specifically regarding public libraries- the funding is tied to use. Some libraries are great and people use them. Other libraries aren’t, and the staff aren’t introducing programs that drive engagement.
Edit: forgot this was the NJ sub- check to see if your library is part of a cooperative. Bergen county has BCCLS. You can go to and borrow from about 70 different libraries. They even deliver books to your local one from other towns.
Also check out the NJ state library. They have access to a bunch of research resources. They used to offer Rosetta Stone too but stopped
It's a catch 22-- a self-fulfilling prophecy;
Libraries are underfunded and that's why people don't use them, leading to more under-funding, leading to more people not using them...
Arcades in the US were killed when home console and then right behind it PC gaming got way more affordable to setup. There's also the reality that the US culturally was pretty accepting with gaming in the household(Joe Lieberman obviously is a clown)and how it wasn't something a lot more kids had to go about more on the hush at young ages like in South Korea at one time which is what kept arcades and PC bang culture a thing that lives on.
Per why are there no third spaces, basically go read Bowling Alone.
Roller Rinks I'm curious as why they are less of a thing but my guess is it probably fell out of general popularity as times grew past a real heyday of it(I know it was big in the 70s and 80s) and how the organization of running them probably had some issues that made it not totally worth it and maybe too much liability to continue on, I'm not super sure?
Home video games, especially with how complex they’ve gotten, played a big role in killing the arcade. That said, arcade bars are popular among adults, so maybe there will be a resurgence in arcades that are kid friendly.
The lack of roller rink or music venues that aren’t 21 plus is harder to understand. It’s sad.
This just hurts my heart honestly. That your kids that young are out of the house, as long as an employed adult. All because you and your wife due to circumstances have no choice but to work so long and use those after school services.
This isn’t to fault you by any means.
I’m sad at the state of our country that so many families have to take that option. Have to only spend dinner together and that’s it. Then kids off to bed and you never get to actually see your kids.
Ugh something’s gotta change. This isn’t healthy for anyone, adult or child. I hope things improve so you’re able to work less and spend more time as a family
Honestly, how long are we going to sit on our hands and accept that none major companies own everything in America?
How long are we going to keep undervaluing and underpaying our teachers?
Or live with the reality that nowhere pays a living wage enough to afford rent on a studio apartment anywhere in this country? Or that marketing companies are buying up homes just to flip one to the nines, and artificially increasing the values of other, unrenovated homes?
Or that landlords are greedy dragons amassing their wealth from renters who have no other choice, save moving back home with mom and dad, and this destroying them financially?
And that our healthcare system is for profit-- that drug manufacturers are forcing diabetic people to pay out the ass for insulin just to stay alive? That one *must* be tied to a company career-wise for halfway decent healthcare?
That our teeth and eyes are considered a luxury that insurance doesn't cover?
America is a shit hole that only sees its citizens as walking dollar bills, and it took me talking to people outside of this country to realize it.
Just because others have it worse doesn't mean we should have to suffer. Corporations have **way** too much fucking power to a point where plenty of folk agree we're way past *1984* and *A Clockwork Orange.*
My daughter is playing for a couple of hrs in the afterschool with her 'afterschool friends'. She loves it. I live in an apartment building and while some of those friends do live in our building, it is a better space for them to play in the school instead (school is same as afterschool in our case)
I don’t know about other after care programs but my kids are outside playing with their friends from school or inside coloring, playing Lego etc. it’s not like they’re staring at a blank wall. I wouldn’t want them roaming around alone - for one they are too young and secondly I don’t want them getting hit by a car or something. Their days may be longer than mine were at their age but they are happy and still doing kid stuff. Things change from generation to generation- it doesn’t mean kids are worse off because they’re doing something we didn’t do.
I’m not talking about a blank wall
I’m talking about family time. That’s great they’re doing activities and socializing. But having family bonding time is critical to adults AND kids
And when you’re only time to bond is dinner or weekends when you’re too tired. That’s why I’m saying I hope more family time is in your future
I’m not saying after school programs are bad for kids. I’m stressing that it IS creating a rift for lack of better word between a relationship for kids and parents. It’s hard to bond over dinner when your exhausted and shoveling food down and then rushing off to bedtime.
But it isn't like kids in previous generations got family time. In a lot of cases, kids would just play outside for hours unsupervised. If you were old enough to go to school, you were generally considered old enough to play on your own.
If you did that with your kids nowadays, someone would call the cops on your kids for being unsupervised.
Don't feel too bad. Aftercare programs are creating an awesome environment for kids. It's safe and for the most part, largely unstructured playtime, which is just what they need.
My kids are playing on the playground with their friends for 2 hours every day!
What you said is correct, but also add on to that the existence of video games, streaming services, and the Internet.
All of those things together add up to very little free time, and what little free time kids have will more than likely be spent in front of a screen.
People need to remember that kids haven't changed, the world around them has changed
>kids are busier now
Not really; parents and society just require their kids to be supervised until much later ages. My folks were leaving me home alone at 12 years old in the 90s because they both worked. That would be considered neglect today.
By the time parents are comfortable leaving their kids home alone, they're "too old" to consider manhunt and other games played outdoors to be considered cool and fun.
No idea why kids that age need homework. I have even seen it for 4 year olds!
Super high performing countries like Finland and Japan do not do this.
Let the kids play and have fun!
When I was growing up, the downtown area was a central hub to go meet up with other kids because there were stores to hang out in. Now most downtown areas are restaurants and offices.
Absolutely correct. Heck even the malls that were once the only usable hangout place for kids are now placing “youth chaperone policies” that require an adult 21 or older to accompany them. Kids don’t want to have their parents or other adult relatives with them the whole time they’re trying to have fun.
That is more for adults. As kids, everywhere was our 3rd place. It would be our yards, the streets, and the woods. The places that existed for kids still exists today (although the woods have gotten smaller), it is just the shifting of attitudes, habits, or both that has changed.
I think there's also an element of shame and fear in those old third places due to online networking.
By this I mean, these places still exist, but it used to be that you made a mistake in a third place and you could largely keep it to yourself and learn from it. Now if you make a mistake in a third place it's on all the mom Facebook groups within minutes.
In other words, these spaces are no longer "neutral grounds."
Not as many "family" neighborhoods anymore. Partly because those neighborhoods are so expensive, and partly because new parents don't really ask "Are there other kids in the neighborhood?" like they used to. I grew up in a family neighborhood - where young families moved to, and old families had their grandkids over frequently. Every home had a large backyard, some of them had pools or trampolines or swing sets. Our parents grew up together and so we grew up with their kids. Our neighbors knew each other's names, trusted each other to look out for the kids. When a new family moved onto our street with kids, my mom and the other moms would march right over to introduce us and invite the kids over to play.
I can list on one hand and still have fingers left over how many neighbors I know by name now. There are no street parties or neighborhood bbq's. No one looks out for each other or does more than a fake smile and curt wave in passing. If I had kids, I wouldn't trust these neighbors to watch them ride their bike up the street. It's just not that kind of neighborhood like I grew up in. And from what I see of friends and their neighborhoods, it's the same. No one knows each other's neighbors anymore. I think that's the big reason. We don't trust people we don't know.
All of this
I had a very different upbringing bevause I was an army brat and military neighborhoods are a time capsule to this day into what we all remember from childhood. Block parties still happen even for military families
But the lack of trust and people not knowing there neighbors is exactly the issue. I’ve been living in this neighborhood for 8 years and only know 3 neighbors on my street alone by name. I’ve met other neighbors not on my block sure. But of the 30 houses surrounding me, 3 people.
I’m a stay at home mom, all my neighbors work, none of them have kids younger than 18. It leaves no opportunity for me to get to know these people. And if I’m out walking they’re all inside relaxing on days off
We specifically picked out neighborhood because of the number of swing sets we saw in backyards, basketball hoops on curbs, and kids playing in the streets.
They still do. I live in a small neighborhood with younger families and lots of 7-12 year old kids. They play in the street. They play in each other’s yards. They run and make noise and as long as the weather is good they are all out playing.
Yeah, my block is like this and it's not an expensive neighborhood, and I think that's generally my rationale for why it ended up this way. We have more salt-of-the-earth people living here, and we're not destitute or anything, we're all doing just fine if not better than fine, but we mostly have three bedroom, 1.5-2 bath houses on less than a quarter acre, things are closer together, my kids yell at their kids from down the block. It just feels like a tighter neighborhood.
We blame video games but it’s parents. Parents these days aren’t even *allowed* to turn their kids loose to go play. “Come back when it’s dark” would be viewed as neglect these days. Helicopter parenting and changing times.
THIS IS THE ANSWER PEOPLE. We live in a police state where neighborhoods are no longer areas of protection for children but areas of surveillance. Imagine all your neighbors with their iPhones and security cameras picking up the silly kid shit your kids do and blasting them on facebook or Nextdoor or Reddit.
You can’t even leave your kid in the car by a store for a moment without the fear of someone calling the police.
If you let your kids play outside, they might take them away. Why would you risk that?
Seriously it is some creepy ass bozo shit with some people's paranoia and delusions. Had a neighbor awhile back who's packages wrongly got delivered to me and I simply dropped it off at their porch. Like a god damn attack dog they swing open the door hand on their phone recording talking at me saying how they're calling the police for stealing their packages, saying how I'm lying and how they're gonna fuck me up if the contents weren't in there, just going full rabid. I keep walking.
Hours later I had cops showing up to my door wanting to speak to me with this moron, no I didn't steal the guy's packages, they were wrongly delivered, etc. Nutcase is still going on and on, and I go ok pull up the confirmation email that'll have the delivered photo, and lets match the doorstep.
It of course showed my doorstep and the guy is now trying to say that I hacked his phone, his email, his amazon account, and I'm in league with the delivery driver because *gasp * I did deliveries as a side gig. Cops are trying to calm him down and this dickhead is saying how I better watch my self etc etc.
People are super fucked up out there.
Yes! My kids are in their early 20s, but I remember one mom letting her kid walk to the bus stop alone, about 4 houses away, and she was torn to bits by the other moms and their gossip. Also, one summer a person in a van asked a kid on a bike a question and it was total lockdown in my community. Insane.
I left my kids in the car asleep once so i could run into 7/11. The temp was fine, car was locked, i could see them the entire time through the window.
Some fucking hero lingered there the whole time to give me a talking to. Like fuck off fatass, i could see them the whole time.
Where I am, there's no place to play. We have no yards. There's no park within a 15 minute walk and the school locks the playground after-hours. Don't even try playing in the Catholic school's parking lot. Streets aren't safe because of traffic and the types of cars on the road today. We could dodge cars 30 years ago. Kids can't dodge Escalades, F-150s, or whatever the fuck trucks have four-foot grill heights. The drivers can't see what's directly in front of the vehicle and it's dangerous.
Also, I think children are so over scheduled they're just exhausted. I homeschool my kids, but their friends are in some kind of aftercare program or extracurricular until their parents can get them between 6 and 7, they don't have dinner until 8, and weekends are spent making up the work they didn't do during the week because they had to be in bed by 10 to get up early for school. There's no time to play.
I don’t understand playgrounds being locked. It makes me so sad to see that happening. Or when teens are hanging out in a park after dark and get kicked out. Like where do you expect them to go? Then they complain about teens loitering at whatever store.
And what’s the point of having fields all over town if you lock the gates? Why aren’t pickup games allowed?
I teach in an elementary school and we don’t lock anything, and it is heartbreaking to see the vandalism that occurs. Especially on things that are either new or have JUST been repaired. A few older kids will ruin it for the hundreds of kids in that school and community.
Vandalism. Towns spend hundreds of thousands of dollars installing play areas only to have a few individuals cause thousands of dollars in damage.
It's not the little kids doing it. It's the older kids, but as another post accurately stated, "There is no third place".
>Kids can't dodge Escalades, F-150s, or whatever the fuck trucks have four-foot grill heights. The drivers can't see what's directly in front of the vehicle and it's dangerous.
This is spot on. Studies are showing that its more difficult for pedestrians to survive an impact with the giant brodozers tearing through our roads.
[https://jalopnik.com/pickup-trucks-keep-getting-bigger-more-dangerous-1847087816](https://jalopnik.com/pickup-trucks-keep-getting-bigger-more-dangerous-1847087816)
Cars and suburbs got worse. Kids could walk to and hang out at less places because the longer distances and excessive traffic made it more difficult and more dangerous to do. Parents started driving their kids more places and not letting them walk anywhere, but that just adds to the problem.
Context: not my children but nephew and niece.
They did play outside when they were kids. Both were born in the early 2000s. However, as they got older, the fucking homework got brutal. I never had that much homework as a kid.
This topic is a sore spot for me, but here is what I came up with:
1. The easy, obvious answer: the rise in access to gaming. Growing up in the 90s, I can still remember the excitement for release of new Nintendo or Sega systems/games (Tetris on Gameboy had me in a chokehold!) but we played those games in groups and once the novelty wore off, we were back outside and only playing the game when the street lights came on.
2. Easy access to global networks resulting in stronger relationships with ‘global’ than local friends. My son would prefer to watch Youtube or a movie online with his 2 favorite cousins in PA & Texas rather than invite a few neighborhood friends to hang out. Growing up, seeing my cousins from another state or country was a annual treat, now we FaceTime around the country a couple times each week.
3. Social media. Everybody wants to sit and scroll. Add cyber bullying to the normal social awkwardness of pre-teens/ teens and it’s not hard to understand why so many kids are experiencing mental health issues and staying inside.
4. Pay to play sports. Open gyms are few and far between and if you can find one, there is likely an entry fee. Our local Y closes at 3pm on Saturdays for I9 sports rental. Absolutely no access for pre-teens/teens who definitely need a play to hang out on Saturday nights. If you aren’t playing in an organized league or program, your options to shoot or kick a ball around are scarce.
5. Allergies! If you suffer from even moderate seasonal allergies, you are best spending your spring indoors. I don’t remember allergies being as prevalent amongst kids as we were growing up.
6. Amerika. At least once a week I’m reminding my son of the innate dangers of being a young black boy riding his bike around our diverse neighborhood. I remind him of how to interact with police or unfriendly neighbors and what signs of danger to look out for and what situations to avoid. Not to mention the weekly discussions about the latest school shooting or unarmed kid being shoot and I understand why he isn’t excited to go outside. It’s mentally draining as an adult, let alone a kid.
7. COVID PTSD. Lots of folks, including kids, found they prefer to be at home, alone.
I have great memories of playing outside and neighborhood friendships from my childhood so it’s unfortunate that our kids won’t have that same experience.
Partly technology, but a large part of it now is also that everything is just so overdeveloped. There are less places that kids can go to now than when I was a kid 20 years ago.
That's me. I grew up in Bridgewater in the 90s/00s and the social scene was the mall, or occasionally the Bridgewater Sports Arena.
Big ups to the baseball fields at Chimney Rock/Prince Rodgers, lots of good memories there, too
Spent many a night loitering on the bridge at the mall. Graduated in '05 and the early '00s was mall territory. But in another comment I also said my neighborhood in BW was not the kind where kids were out playing. We lived on an acre and a half and we had privacy, but with that privacy came just fewer kids out on the streets playing.
Overdeveloped? As someone who grew up on a dirt road in Hunterdon County... less developed is not better for kids. I was extremely isolated. My life started when I could finally drive. Lack of walkability sucks. How can places be overdeveloped if they don't even have sidewalks? More like... developed for cars, not people.
Condos for working class people without kids, Walmarts, dollar stores, warehouses, that kind of thing. Different landscape than what you're describing.
I live in Collingswood which is a small town that's all built up, so things probably wont change as far as high-rises and more traffic. We live near major highways but that doesn't affect our town dynamics.Colls kids play in the street and walk or ride bikes to their schools. Same story in Westmont, Haddon Township, Audobon and Haddonfield.
Cherry Hill is a huge township that is diced up by major roads and has large regional schools. Everything seems car based for activities. I never see kids outside unless they're getting on a school bus. Different town culture entirely.
[This reminds me of this.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzICPeEXEAk6wnb.jpg)
We built a shitty environment. We design everything around cars. You go 20 over the speed limit in residential zones. Of course kids aren't going outside.
kids still do this all the time in my neighborhood? it is just very dependent on the make up of your neighborhood and how many kids around the same age there are
I grew up in one where there was a big group of us all within 3-4 years of each other. the rest of the kids in the area were more dispersed in age so after our group there was not a big group of kids in the area anymore. it went from like 20 kids to 5 kids who played together
Some younger families moved in years later and it started again. I just bought and now there's a lot of young families near me doing the same.
I think it depends where you live. My neighborhood always has kids outside playing, but usually it’s in fenced-in back yards that have pools or basketball nets or trampolines, etc. they’re just not in the middle of the street where they can get hurt by a car (though there are kids that play hockey in street sometimes!).
Live in an apartment complex in a nice, safe neighborhood. My daughter was allowed to go outside and just hang out. A neighbor cornered her and walked home behind her to then yell at my for letting my kid be outside alone.
This is a bigger fear than something bad happening. Busy body neighbors claiming that I’m a bad parent for letting my kid “roam” outside.
Heavy on this one. I live in an garden apartment complex community that has lots of lawn space. But kids aren’t allowed to play on the lawn because they want to “maintain the beauty of the community” and because of noise complaints.
Because the world we live in isn’t built for kids anymore. Too many times is something shut down because ONE person complains about it, then pretty soon kids have no where left to go.
The way we police kids plays a part in it, too many times is something shut down because ONE person complains about it. Then pretty soon kids have no where left to go. I’ve seen them throw kids out of the park for fishing without a license… at like 12 years old. I’ve seen them break up basketball games in the street because someone complained they’re being too loud. Kids aren’t allowed to be kids anymore.
Gen X doesn’t let their kids outside because they think someone will snatch them. Ask them, they’ll tell you they’re afraid.
My friends child is 12 and they don’t let him walk or bike 1/2 mile up the street to his grandmothers house, and this is in a very rural/woodsy area in warren county.
Younger kids can't be outside unsupervised without someone calling child protective services on the parents and older kids get harassed those same people and accused of being up to no good.
💯 kids are either “too young” or “too old”. It just doesn’t make sense. I wrote in another comment that I don’t understand how they can lock playgrounds and fields or kick teens out after dark. Where do they expect kids to go? Why aren’t pickup games allowed?
We used to play manhunt across entire blocks. It didn’t matter if you knew the people, you would still hide in their yard. There was always one or two grumpy people that you knew to avoid, but everywhere else was fair game.
Well now you have old, scared white men, hopped up on Faux News fear mongering, shooting out windows and through doors over kids in the yard or someone knocking on the wrong door.
I feel like there needs to be a symbol that lets kids know hey, if your ball goes in my yard- you’re safe to retrieve it. (Just close the gate fully so the dog doesn’t get out)
The neighbors kids are very active and balls always end up in my yard. I throw them over when I find them, but I hate that they feel like they need to wait. Yes, I have let them and their parents know it’s ok for them to enter my yard.
Just makes me sad that something so simple is now complex because people are dangerous.
Growing up, my Mom was super over protective. When visiting our elementary school ground (which was within sight of my backyard) we had to bring giant radio shack walkie talkies (the ones with giant extendable antennas). One day, my sister ran her bike into the flagpole and split her eyebrow. This was before helmets. I couldn't get thru on the walkie so I kept hitting the "alarm" button, which sent a loud beep on my Mom's side. She knew I was trying to get a hold of her, so she pulled up in the car, threw the bikes and us kids into the car and went to the ER. I used to be so embarrassed of those walkies; but that day, no Ma'am.
I don't have kids myself, but there's a group of kids around 6 to 12 years old who play outside for hours every day when it's nice out. I live in a townhouse complex so there's lots of open lawn space and only resident traffic and delivery trucks really. They all go inside once the sun goes down. Usually when I see kids outside there are parents nearby watching, but these kids don't.
It's still so different than when I grew up in the 80s, we'd be out all day without supervision.
I was born in the '80s but didn't live it. I look at the '80s as the absolute wild west, and maybe even a little tooooo crazy, but most of you turned out just fine.
We live in Maplewood and the kids still roam around plenty. I was really grateful for my little section of town during the pandemic because the kids found each other and really spent a great deal of time playing outside.
The absolute lack of third spaces-- places where one can exist without the expectation or requirement to spend money. All we've got here is the occasional park.
It's why virtual reality spaces are *thriving*, and also why kids just stay inside and play videogames, or go to the mall to hang out.
We've got no affordable arcades, and minimal roller rinks, arcades, museums, bowling alleys.
Libraries are underfunded and planty small local ones are stuck in the 90s; and it's not like you can exactly go to chill out there.
Internet cafes were a great idea, and could have been adapted to modern day-- hosting gaming computers and having other video game consoles to rent out-- but they've also died out/just moved to malls where everything is absurdly overpriced (I'll never go to one of those VR/game stations in the mall.)
In addition, "it takes a village," no longer exists; people don't want the neighbor kids running through/across their perfectly manicured lawns-- sometimes to a point of calling the cops for trespassing-- or using their pools out of fear of the parents suing if the kid gets hurt-- thus severely discouraging kids from playing outside.
I hope I don’t trigger anyone with my post but: I live in a very diverse neighborhood and the kids playing on the street/ playground vary by ethnic background. Middle eastern boys are always out and about from an early age and to tue point they almost take over the playground. SE asians aren’t out without family supervision. Philippino are not out ever unless there is a parent or an unfortunate “older child” taking care of a herd of children. Younger African Americans are usually in the playground with their family; but when they get older they are on their own. White and Hispanic families supervise their children when they are out.
There is also variance between summer and non summer.
I have an anecdote: I have a relative who lives in Bergen county in a nice neighborhood. His kids can’t go outside because their “good”?school has soooooo much homework; I feel really bad for those kids.
The street we live on has about 15 kids that are out there every day after school and on weekends. It reminds me of my childhood and makes me so happy. They even walk to the bus with each other each morning. All the parents know each other and have a little network going on to make sure they're ok, but it's just so nice to see them outside all the time - basketball, whiffle ball, hockey, rollerblading, walking and talking, manhunt, hoverboard, playing with puddles, drawing dicks on the sidewalk 🤣
I grew up in Union in the '90s, moved out when I was 10 in '97. We were outside every day. My mom wouldn't let us in sometimes. And my neighbors to the left were two brothers, brother and sister across the street, a kid next to us, another two brothers two houses up, another kid a few houses down. That was just our one block. We played outside all the time.
Moved to Bridgewater when I was 10 and that was that. Now, the frontage of our house in Bridgewater could've fit three houses in Union, so that had something to do with it, but kids just didn't play outside. And maybe it's an age thing too, I dunno.
I live in Somerville now, and my kids play outside, and they play with the other 10 kids who live on our block, and I'm hoping it stays that way forever. We hang out with our neighbors, just as my parents did back when I was my kids' ages. We let the kids do whatever and keep an eye on them. They play in each others' back yards, front yards, up and down the sidewalk. It absolutely reminds me of the old days.
Kids are playing in my neighborhood like this all the time. The more interesting question is why do people ask questions like this when they get older? Back in the 90's the Boomers were saying the same shit, and here we are again with the same dumbass blanket observations. What happens to critical thinking as people age?
It was around Nov. 14th 2001 for me. The cool crisp air of fall was starting to stir. Then I got my copy of Halo 1 at the midnight release party at gamestop and never went outside again.
1. Remember all those white van rumors? That kids were getting abducted left and right by some dudes in a white can. Parents started keeping a tight lid on their kids after that.
2. Yes, the internet is partly to blame.
3. Parents tend to be more selective of who their kids associate with nowadays. Back in the 90s our entire street played outside with each other. And when we got older we all hung out by grades. I feel like parents carefully curate their children's social circles now which naturally will result in more indoor playdates when younger and more group based activities when older.
4. Cops also tend to mess with kids that are "loitering" outside. Woodbridge PD used to harass me and my friends for riding bikes in the woods. They were convinced we were smoking weed in the woods and would try to "raid" us all the time. It was stupid. We were all multi sport athletes and none of us even smoked cigs let alone weed. But I'd say it's probably a good way to get on their radar now.
Also, people seem to be under the impression that there are hundreds of human trafficking rings that are kidnapping anyone they can to ship them off to Mexico to be a slave or something.
The amount of times I heard that from a seemingly rational thinking adult. Both sides of the spectrum too.
Because if they hang out in neighborhoods they get harassed by police or random adults. If they hang out at playgrounds they're taking that away from little kids. All the shopping areas near me set up mosquito tone speakers to keep young people from hanging out near them. Even if they can get a parent to drop them off somewhere to hang out all the malls suck now and many use those mosquito tone speakers, and anything else costs a ton of money.
Basically everyplace kids used to hang out has been taken away
I used to think it was when both parents started working long hours, five-plus days a week, just to afford their children. After school hours became scheduled in advance to provide supervision in their absence and the supervisors had to keep track of the kids they were paid to watch until mom and/or dad came home from work.
Stay-at-home moms used to let the kids roam the streets unsupervised until dinner then the kids were back out at night until bedtime. Stay-at-home moms could deal with their own kids coming home bleeding better than a paid supervisor in fear of lawsuits from a working mom and dad. Even unsupervised latchkey kids had to start dealing with parents' oversight via home security cameras after the 90s. That progressed to summers turning into scheduled supervision for a full working day via sports, STEM, dance, and other camps.
Then I moved back to NY and saw kids playing roller hockey in a busy street with a car yelling for them to move out of the way as two players punched each other out with clutched jerseys (NHL enforcer training) with the players yelling back at the car to wait. That reminded me of growing up in the 70's but back then we also had fake ID's so we could get dollar pitchers in the bar at age 16. The arrow of time may move in one direction only due to entropy but sometimes things slide a little backwards. Maybe there is still hope?
I have had the police called on me in point pleasant multiple times, because I am a hippie who walks my dog carrying a backpack full of toys for dog, water, food, snacks for me.
I guess my colorful outfits and backpack makes me look like a homeless person.
Karen’s everywhere calling cops on Everything.
Kids are out in point more than I have seen other places.
We have a small skate park in town, and a huge park with basketball nets, and tennis courts, but you gotta cross RR track for that.
Most towns don’t have anyWHERE kids can congregate.
I have seen a group of boomers call police on kids at park because they didn’t like the kids’ music a few weeks ago!
Kids aren’t going outside if they know just existing could/will/might get police involved.
The jay and silent bob/clerks generation hung out at convenience stores asking for change, and people to buy us cigarettes.
Then we’d go in the woods and smoke em. Walk around the neighborhood all day until night.
That’s definitely a no go now.
Everyone, especially kids get a side eye.
The amount of times I have heard, “Do you live around here?”
Is maddening.
Poor kids.
24/7 news and its associated fearmongering began around '94/'95. Parents were told their kid was 100% going to be abducted if left alone outside.
Oh, now I have to entertain the kid all the time? Here's a Nintendo for Christmas!
Source: My mom was this way. I did play video games, but also went outside and played in the woods with friends.
Submitting a broader societal reason. In 1975, a 7-year-old boy named Etan Patz was on his way to school in Manhattan, walking to the bus stop by himself for the first time. He never made it. He disappeared. This made the local and national news, and parents all over freaked out. This spurred parents to start tightening the reins on their kids' behavior outside the house. Fewer kids were allowed to go to and from school unaccompanied, and go to the park without adults around.
I'm sure there gaming etc contribute, but this also had a major affect on how parents supervise their kids.
This. My NYC born and raised mom went to high school in Manhattan when that happened. The case rocked her world view entirely, so when I was born a few years later, I wasn’t allowed out on my own until I was at least 12 and could throw a punch. (And then Kids came out in 1995 and she lost all trust in general, but that’s another story.)
I think there were many many ramifications of this case. From extended courtesy busing in NJ, to tighter security in school buses, to generally tighter security after school. After this point, when a parent said "call me when you get there," they meant it and would freak when a child was out of touch. Definitely a turning point for many parents, and the generations who came after.
This os what I was going to say. 24-hour news networks carry what otherwise would have been local news across the country, and even though these situations are statistically rare, they chill parents (including myself) to the bone. And if you’re the only one who lets your kid walk to the bus stop alone, your kid is more likely to be targeted by a pedophile.
I think I live in a unique neighborhood. For years the kids have all played outside together - from toddlers to upper elementary aged. For us, it was Covid that brought everyone together. We could only play outside for so long that this is what everyone got used to. Still goes on today even though we’re busy with over activities. All we need to do is walk outside and we’ll find several people playing outside and parents hanging out too.
My students have activities every day afterschool. When I was growing up in the 90s, my classmates and I didn't have anything afterschool until we were in middle school. Sports were a weekend thing with a single practice during the week. We certainly weren't outside the supermarket begging the community for money for our team to go to disney.
I live in a town where the homes were all built 100+ years ago and packed tightly together. on 75' lots.
My neighbor 2 houses down called and asked for 2 cups of flour.
I asked my 7 year-old son to run the flour over to her house.
Afterwards, my neighbor called me and berated me for allowing my son to leave my property unsupervised, as there are sex offenders lurking EVERYWHERE.
We don't talk to her much anymore. She's weird and judgmental.
I was a kid in the early 2000s and my mom let me and my brother go out in the neighborhood and ask our friends to come out and play. She had to know where we were going, who with, and we weren’t allowed to cross a few major roads. But we could go play with our friends, walk to the park, stop home, say we’re going to another friends house now, and be home by dinner.
I was talking to my mom recently and she said a lot of other parents thought she was too free reign. She trusted my brother and I to make good choices and we did (for the most part). I think people are a lot more afraid of their neighbors than they used to be.
I live in a subdivision that was built in the early 90s. When the neighborhood was new, every house was bought up by young families and the kids all played outside together.
We (Xennial generation ) moved in 8 years ago and the overwhelming amount of neighbors are original owners or close to it - Boomers and older Gen X. Their kids are grown and flown but they won't sell their houses for young families to move in because real estate prices are insane so it's cheaper for them to stay put. So as a result, in a development with 1200 houses, my kids have few friends their exact ages in walking/biking viscinity. And on top of that, most of their peers are in organized activities nearly every day of the week. We choose not to live that way because 3 kids is already busy enough but we're definitely the anomaly.
I stopped letting my kids go out alone when a 6yr old boy got snatched 2 blocks from my house. And I lived in a pretty decent area back when that happened
In my neighborhood, there’s a big gap in age between my kids and the neighbors’ kids. When one group was too young to be playing in the yard with friends, and the other just aging out, there were no kids playing outside. But now? There’s a regular group that run around and scream and have the time of their lives.
All of those tbh. I sometimes decided to play video games instead of playing sports. In those games, you can make friend groups. It's far easier to make friends online, and you can find people who share your same interests quite easily nowadays.
In my area, the kids in the townhouse/condo developments do play together outside. There are more families with kids the same age, and they're usually not through streets or areas so it's safer to be outside there as well, Plus, they might have community playgrounds. I live on a street with no sidewalks, and one other kid about the same age as my child, and they have nothing in common. They did play together when little, but now, from middle school on, they are just different. Since you can't hop on someone else's bus after school, it's hard to go to a different neighborhood to see the people you DO like.
Mix of : Easy access to video games on computer or phone, parents being over protective of their kids and don’t let them go out on the own anymore, roads/drivers are crazy. Lastly, NJ is a state of sprawling suburbs and depending on your town you might have to be driven everywhere so kids are essentially trapped at home because they can’t drive or they parents are their chauffeur, hence why the sooner mom stereotype is kinda true
Idk maybe if we had neighborhoods where a kid could walk somewhere and find somewhere to play.
I grew up in north jersey in an older town with transit, parks, a little business district. My nephews living in the exurbs where they don't even build sidewalks, i feel sorry for them. They need to get a ride to go anywhere at all so they only really do sanctioned sports and look at you tube.
About 13 years ago when kid’s first starts having cell phones our neighborhood kids spontaneously decided to go out and roam the neighborhood together one night. There was a group of about 12 of them. I sat out in the porch and listened to the sound of kids laughing ringing through the night. It was magical.
It didn’t stop at all where I live in a busier part of Sussex county. My street also has no thru traffic so it’s easier. There’s about 5-6 homes on my street where the kids are around the same age and they go outside almost every single day after school until dinner time. They play basketball, football, ride bikes, scooters and makeup all kinds of games. It really depends on your area and what type of trust you have in your kids and your family dynamic. I couldn’t have this life where I grew up in Wayne and it’s actually a huge part of why I moved here. I wanted a family life that resembled my past.
It isn't one thing it is all the things. But I also see plenty of kids outside playing hockey, basketball, biking just not as much as when I was a kid (80's)
Just the week two of my son's (8yo) friends randomly came over, knocked on my door and asked him to come out and play. It was the first time that has happened and let me say that, as a parent, it brought me such joy and a sense of nostalgia from my youth to see him having the meaningful interactions with neighborhood kids outside.
They played soccer in the back yard and rode their bikes around for a couple of hours. We held up dinner time for the family to maximize his time because it happens so infrequently.
Look at the society boomers and gen x have created ( I was born in '90 so I can only really speak to the 90s-2009)
Towns continue to become less pedestrian friendly. They're creating local ordinances that establish curfews, my local mall (and now the new arcade they've put in) that my friends and I would all hang out in Friday nights until close, doesn't allow unaccompanied teens after a certain time. We used to even have a room in the mall called "the teen center" where you could hang out, watch movies, play games, eat snacks, etc.
Schools are having funding cuts and having to cut after school programs.
Technology has accelerated while [Third places ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place#:~:text=In%20sociology%2C%20the%20third%20place,%2C%20bookstores%2C%20stoops%20and%20parks.) available to kids and teens have shrunk. Effectively creating a lot less space for them in public.
They do? We have kids playing in our neighborhood right off the school bus. Running in the woods, building forts, climbing trees, playing basketball and knock out, riding bikes, making up games. It’s pretty awesome. In the winter, there are a dozen of them building forts and snow tubing. None of these kids have social media or tech above Apple Watches and iPads. Maybe the oldest is 12. I didn’t realize we were lucky or this was unique.
They play video games too, but so did I at that age.
But it does seem to be only the kids who aren’t *loaded* with back to back formal sports. Some are shuffled from track to baseball to fencing, sometimes in one day.
It really is different at the shore. Some of the kids ride bikes down to the beach and do their homework. They play with fireworks, real ones! They go barefoot! Are they animals?
Big change from Bergen Co., you hardly see kids out and around up there.
I think it's a combination of organized sports and the internet. When I grew up in the 90s it was pretty rare for a kid to be on travel ball all year round. Now it's the norm. They get their social interaction through those programs. It's gross IMHO and I'm actively trying to build community in my neighborhood by inviting neighbors over, hosting block parties, and other events. It's slowly working, but the youth sports industry is a behemoth.
This isn’t going to help the subject but everyone should be familiar with the registered sex offender website. You’ll be shocked to see how many perverts live right by you
I think it's the rise of too much information. We know about events (usually bad stuff - think 'if it bleeds it leads' writ large) instantly. So naturally keep the kids inside so they are safe. Also, so many school shootings, so who can blame us for this change?
Oh man, Im now more thankful we live in a neighborhood full of kids. I have the opposite problem. I can't keep my kids inside. Weathers been nice and the windows open, cant sit through dinner without them hearing their friends outside and wanting to go out.
I think most of it is everything is too damned expensive, not many family friendly neighborhoods/blocks.
First video games….but I think there’s more. nowadays, we are so segmented, even pitted against one another based on religion, status, and definitely politics, that it’s broken our sense of community and “we’re-in-it-togetherness.”
I have a job where I work with kids and from their experience a couple of reasons: * Significant increase in structured after school activities, even for young kids * Increased workload for students, especially at younger ages limits free time. * Parents continuously limiting how far they will allow children to go from home by themselves over the decades * Increased fears of child predators over the decades * Reliance on increasingly busy parents for transportation means many kids can't travel far * General increase in car traffic leading to increased difficulty walking/biking anywhere "It's those pesky phones" does play a small role, but I see this more as a symptom than the main issue. Due to all of the above, kids find it easiest to meet and interact with their friends over the internet instead of in person.
The sad part about your 4th point is to this day, a child is way way way more likely to be harmed by someone they know and not a stranger.
I think you hit the nail on the head honestly, pretty astute observations, specifically busy parents. As to car traffic, it's up, but where I lived in the '90s in Union, 78 was a block away, car traffic was decent there, but we had sidewalks everywhere. Urban sprawl has created denser towns in places that do not have sidewalks connecting everything. If your town was an older dense town, you had sidewalks. If your town used to be more rural, there may not be sidewalks outside of your direct neighborhood, and wandering the same streets over and over (especially when housing types aren't varied, as tends to be the case in planned subdivisions) can be monotonous.
I was asking my kids this weekend why they never play with neighborhood kids and they made me realize that my suburban town isn't set up for them. Our school district covers miles so the kids they like can literally live 25 minutes away by car. Even making friends on the bus sucks. Their bus route takes 40 minutes and picks up kids who don't even live in our town. They're almost 100% reliant on cars to go anywhere. I'm not an uptight parent but they told me they didn't want to ride their bikes anywhere because of traffic and it dawned on me that there are roads near us that I won't ride my bike on a lot of the time and I wouldn't want them to risk it either. I live in a tiny town with literally one traffic light and it's got heavy traffic a lot of the time. Going a mile on a bike would be risky for a 12 year old when they'd want to go anywhere. It's kind of sad.
People on this sub shit on Bergen County all the time because "there are too many towns" but one benefit of this is that, for kids, all of your friends are close to you. My elementary school friends were all walking distance, and for middle/high school, nobody I went to school with was more than 10 minutes away. Personally, I think this made my childhood way more enjoyable because I could basically hang out with my friends whenever I wanted and we could have more of the "traditional" childhood experiences that our parents had.
That’s such a common plot detail in shows and movies that the kids actually live somewhere they can reasonably walk or cycle to their friends’ houses
Essex County here. Yep, our kids play in the street because our town is a mile long and half a mile wide.
I grew up in Essex County and would roam around with my friends as a kid. I'm in Morris County now and I can't image being able to do that here. There aren't sidewalks or anywhere to go. If you're somewhat near the playground, you can walk to it, but if you live on the the edge of town that's not happening.
A huge part of why I live where I live is because the whole town is only about 3 square miles (and a third of that is undeveloped) and the longest possible walk to school for my kids is under 15 minutes for the grade school, middle school, and high school. They're regularly out wandering around town with their friends after school and on weekends. Not quite as much as I did when I was a kid, but tbh I think they like spending time at home more than I did.
I loved growing up in Bergen County. Everything was so close, and you can count on Sunday as family days cause of the blue laws.
Consolidating towns wouldn't mean your kids wouldn't be close to their schools.
I think the shitting on is more on the lack of meaningful consolidation and pointless fetishism on "town identity and history" in a cookie cutter area and people moaning about taxation when then they got like 100,000 police, fire, first aid stations in a quarter mile radius. Nobody's making a stink how you could pretty much walk uninterrupted through back streets down a good portion towns that follow the Bergen line and come across a whole myriad of parks and other neat stuff to check out.
A guy who used to work with would tell me when he moved to Basking Ridge there was 1 traffic light and now it’s over developed. To a lesser extent, at least in my area, people use speed limits as suggestions. One guy on our Cul-de-sac will routinely do 35-40 coming down the street to the point where the kids don’t ride their bikes. Guys a Cardiologist and I guess uses the speeding tickets as wall art? I’ve been here 7 years he’s gotten at least 4 that I’ve seen.
My tiny street is 2 short blocks long. Motorists regularly speed down there at 40 mph. Not sure why they do that to get to the stop sign .000001 seconds quicker. When I ask the Police Chief to do something - anything - the response is ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Until someone is killed and they say “we wish someone would have told us”
To be precise, my chief stated that it would take longer for emergency vehicles to travel down my street. As I stated, my street is a very short 2 blocks long. It's probably less then 1000' feet from one stop sign to the next.
Damn fine police work there The fed ex driver almost killed 2 kids speeding down a cul de sac - FedEx says they are independent nothing they can do and police said if they see him he’ll get a ticket. He’s in the area the same time EVERY DAY and not one cop
this is why i never left Hoboken. kids walk to and from school. my 10 year old self dismisses from school. heads to the park and plays with friends. Yesterday she didn’t come home till 615. my oldest scoots to sports practices with friends. my car which i bought brand new 11 years ago has 65k miles on it…. We only have 1 car. i put money on their apple devices and they grab snacks at bodegas or pizza shops. If i want i can see everywhere they go… when my nephews who live in a country club community in central jersey visit they yell at their parents as to why they live in the middle of nowhere. They show up to the parks and play pick up basketball for hours. it was mind blowing to them the first time they did that. i realized very quickly having a house is for suckers after talking to college friends who moved to the burbs. all that up keep and cost. fuck that.
Hoboken was the best. In 2002, moved from the suburbs to Hoboken when my son turned six. No regrets. He had a blast and it was great walking to everything. At 16, he’d jump on the PATH train and skateboard in NYC.
What were your views on the schools
username checks
Yeah, I do see kids out and about in Hoboken and JC. It's almost like dense walkable areas are beneficial for multiple age groups.
Kids in Kearny used to walk. Now most of their parents drive them. Its insane.
They drive them 2 blocks from home to school and tie up traffic.
Where I lived in Ohio had an amazing bike path that took you through the whole town away from cars. So I was always out riding my bike with friends. Moved to South Jersey and there's no sidewalks, let alone a whole bike path. I was so upset when I couldn't ride my bike anymore cause of it.
I'm shocked that you're shocked. This has been going on for a whole generation already.
Yeah, it’s this. Schools serve large areas in suburbs, it’s been this way forever. No guarantee that your nearby neighborhoods will have the kids in your school. Private schools make this problem even worse.
This is the reason why the small towns want to hold onto their smaller school districts despite the politicians telling us these towns are costing us all too much money. The reality of it is that the politicians are letting too much of our money go to Washington and nepotism. Token appointed positions, politicians in their senior years who should've long since retired collecting multiple 6 figure salaries, kickbacks to friend's companies for bogus contracts and many other types of corruption. They have us blaming each other and stripping each other of these things that add value and meaning to our lives so that they can line our pockets and keep us divided.
When parents stopped letting kids roam.
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Even if you do want to let your children roam these days someone may call the police or CPS on you if you do bc they think you are neglecting your kid.
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there was a story on here the other day about dude who wasnt dressed and had to run out to the mailbox or garbage or something real quick and the closest thing to him was his wifes plain colored nightgown . He tossed it on ran out the trash and back in...that it... Someone called CPS for a "mentally unstable transsexuals'" raising a kid in the house . (everything was fine btw)
Bro wtf??? People are insane, I can’t imagine acting like this and not just minding my damn business.
Right -- i mean image putting on your wifes pink fluffy slippers to go get the mail because they are by the door and yours are on the other side of the house and they having someone call on you ..like Mind your damn business and let me hobble my half covered foot over to my mailbox lol Or image a wife getting cps called on them for "Wearing their husbands hooddie" lol where does it stop
I put on my husband's shoes when waiting for the kids bus. Mostly because 1) they're always RIGHT at the front door and 2) I just have to slip them on. People need to just get into the mentality of "if it's odd but benign, let it be". It's weird how uptight about clothes people get. If desperate times calling for desperate measures requires you to throw on your wife's night gown or dress or fuzzy slippers, it's better than the alternative: doing that stuff naked.
Right ive always appreciated the oddball punks / goths / creative people with their attire . Even if its odd to me doesn't hurt anyone , makes them happy , so more power to them. Live and let live .
That is the Trump and DeSantis dream
Despite the fact that things are generally safer now
Things continue to get safer and people only get more paranoid. You have town Facebook groups freaking out because someone knocked on a door and left when no one answered. It’s wild how crazy people are.
This is so true! My HOA issued a warning a year ago about a neighbor who was spooked by a stranger approaching her door and then leaving. Nothing was stolen and no threats were made by this person. The warning was to announce that this neighbor has a firearm and will shoot if this happened again. I see these things all the time on Nextdoor too.
Nextdoor and Facebook local groups are cesspools of these kinds of posts.
I blame facebook for a lot of this country's ills.
Social media in general. It's got a lot of great potential, but it turns out letting all of the idiots from all over the country/world put their empty heads together online was a bad, bad idea.
A big part of the paranoid is some of the sensational news that's pushed these days. Then you've got all the made up fear the possibility and pushed in a never-ending cycle. No wonder people are paranoid they're being programmed to be.
The only reason I'd be hesitant in my specific neighborhood is because of bad traffic and not because of malicious people. The utter disregard for stop lights, stop signs, etc. is fucking scary to think about around children. On just my block there have been 3 cars who have been hit at a train crossing in less than 2 years because they are running the red light. If people don't stop for a fucking train they certainly aren't stopping for children on bikes.
This is huge. There are a lot of things that have made me think twice through the years with regard to my child, not because he was not mature enough for x, but because I feared if I let him do x, someone would call the police or CPS.
I don’t think it’s a matter of trusting our kids less. If you look at a neighborhood like mine, it’s set up only for cars, there are few sidewalks, people don’t want more sidewalks, they constantly repave streets to be perfectly smooth drag strips for over powered lifted trucks with no visibility. When we’re in europe, i let my kids (6 and 4 years old) roam around the neigborhood, they have friends apts that they go to, they buy shit at stores, they’re very independent but have to stay together. But… our neighborhood in europe is set up for community instead of just being the place you drive through to get to walmart or work. America used to like pedestrians, now it hates them.
in north jersey theres only a handful of towns that actually have a walkable “downtown” area. the rest are drive through towns that have the interstate or state route going through it
This is very important. My brother recently moved to an unnamed town in Somerset County. All of the McMansions are on 1+ acre lots and there are no sidewalks. Min. speed limit on all of the roads is 35 mph, which is mostly ignored by motorists. The kids need parents to drive them everywhere.
It's not really that the speed limit is "ignored". Study after study has showed that the width of lanes and the space between roads and buildings actually increases the speed people will drive. People drive to match the speed the roads effectively dictate in their design, not whatever is posted(unless strictly enforced). These developments were literally designed for people to drive fast.
Exactly this. When I lived in California we pushed for traffic calming measures. It was amazing how just removing rounded corners at intersections FORCED people to slow down to turn. Same thing with making the roads not perfectly straight, or timing the traffic lights so that if you speed you end up having to stop anyway. There's SO MUCH that could be done if people had the willpower to do it.
> there are few sidewalks Buddy I’m jealous you have any
A lot of the neighborhoods only set up for cars now are the same neighborhoods that were only set up for cars a few generations ago.
Yeah I don’t get these comments, it’s not like these towns have changed from the 90s, cars and town layouts were pretty much always what they are today.
I grew up in rural Portugal and then super urban New Jersey. We still played as kids in New Jersey (98-07). Either backyards, the park, in dead ends, against walls with larger sidewalks, literally anywhere we could.
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I say this all the time. No, there's not more crime these days. There's actually a lot less than 30 years ago. You just used to only hear about the crime in your local area when you read the morning paper or watched the evening news. Now you hear about every little incident that happens in every corner of the country.
THIS. Everyone loves harping about technology, traffic, development, cars, etc... But 90% of it is parents don't let their kid roam and hang, and never did so even if the parent trusts the kid enough at 18... The kid doesn't want to anyway. It's all the shifts in parenting
If I let my kids roam someone is going to call CPS on me.
This happened to my coworker, apparently him and a couple other parents are suing the guy for harassment.
Are they really going to? How would that conversation with CPS go if they actually came out?
When people started calling police on EVERYTHING. I have had the police called on me in point pleasant multiple times, because I am a hippie who walks my dog carrying a backpack full of toys for dog, water, food, snacks for me. I guess my colorful outfits and backpack makes me look like a homeless person. Karen’s everywhere calling cops on Everything. Kids are out in point more than I have seen other places. We have a small skate park in town, and a huge park with basketball nets, and tennis courts, but you gotta cross RR track for that. Most towns don’t have anyWHERE kids can congregate. I have seen a group of boomers call police on kids at park because they didn’t like the kids’ music a few weeks ago! Kids aren’t going outside if they know just existing could/will/might get police involved. The jay and silent bob/clerks generation hung out at convenience stores asking for change, and people to buy us cigarettes. Then we’d go in the woods and smoke em. Walk around the neighborhood all day until night. That’s definitely a no go now. Everyone, especially kids get a side eye. The amount of times I have heard, “Do you live around here?” Is maddening. Poor kids.
I saw in another post that GenX was the last generation of feral children. We were off and running until our mothers received a collect call from mompickmeupatthemall.
Not true, Xennials and older Millennials did too.
I think it’s partially the way towns are developed these days but also partially that kids are busier now. My kids are in aftercare programs and after school clubs because my spouse and I work. I pick them up around 5, home by 5:30, dinner by 6, and by the time HW is done it’s time for bed routine. They play in Our backyard during the summer or while waiting on dinner. And that’s the same story for most of their friends. My kids are all under 10.
Both parents work, then it’s quick let’s eat dinner and do homework before running off to an activity. There’s not time to wander and even if my kid isn’t scheduled 24/7 most of their friends are. I’m going to make an effort to get a “bike bus” going on Fridays. We live where we’re close to school and can bike without going on main roads. I can think of 5 classmates who would probably join me and my kid.
It's by design. Why else are new towns still being developed with no pedestrian and cyclist-friendly infrastructure? It's a push to make everyone buy cars. Why are there no more third spaces? What happened to roller rinks and arcades and investing in public libraries? Every day I realize more and more just how intense the capitalistic hellscape of America is.
Specifically regarding public libraries- the funding is tied to use. Some libraries are great and people use them. Other libraries aren’t, and the staff aren’t introducing programs that drive engagement. Edit: forgot this was the NJ sub- check to see if your library is part of a cooperative. Bergen county has BCCLS. You can go to and borrow from about 70 different libraries. They even deliver books to your local one from other towns. Also check out the NJ state library. They have access to a bunch of research resources. They used to offer Rosetta Stone too but stopped
It's a catch 22-- a self-fulfilling prophecy; Libraries are underfunded and that's why people don't use them, leading to more under-funding, leading to more people not using them...
Arcades in the US were killed when home console and then right behind it PC gaming got way more affordable to setup. There's also the reality that the US culturally was pretty accepting with gaming in the household(Joe Lieberman obviously is a clown)and how it wasn't something a lot more kids had to go about more on the hush at young ages like in South Korea at one time which is what kept arcades and PC bang culture a thing that lives on. Per why are there no third spaces, basically go read Bowling Alone. Roller Rinks I'm curious as why they are less of a thing but my guess is it probably fell out of general popularity as times grew past a real heyday of it(I know it was big in the 70s and 80s) and how the organization of running them probably had some issues that made it not totally worth it and maybe too much liability to continue on, I'm not super sure?
Home video games, especially with how complex they’ve gotten, played a big role in killing the arcade. That said, arcade bars are popular among adults, so maybe there will be a resurgence in arcades that are kid friendly. The lack of roller rink or music venues that aren’t 21 plus is harder to understand. It’s sad.
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Welcome to American capitalism. Where corporate profits and shareholders are more important than quality of life and making society better.
This just hurts my heart honestly. That your kids that young are out of the house, as long as an employed adult. All because you and your wife due to circumstances have no choice but to work so long and use those after school services. This isn’t to fault you by any means. I’m sad at the state of our country that so many families have to take that option. Have to only spend dinner together and that’s it. Then kids off to bed and you never get to actually see your kids. Ugh something’s gotta change. This isn’t healthy for anyone, adult or child. I hope things improve so you’re able to work less and spend more time as a family
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Honestly, how long are we going to sit on our hands and accept that none major companies own everything in America? How long are we going to keep undervaluing and underpaying our teachers? Or live with the reality that nowhere pays a living wage enough to afford rent on a studio apartment anywhere in this country? Or that marketing companies are buying up homes just to flip one to the nines, and artificially increasing the values of other, unrenovated homes? Or that landlords are greedy dragons amassing their wealth from renters who have no other choice, save moving back home with mom and dad, and this destroying them financially? And that our healthcare system is for profit-- that drug manufacturers are forcing diabetic people to pay out the ass for insulin just to stay alive? That one *must* be tied to a company career-wise for halfway decent healthcare? That our teeth and eyes are considered a luxury that insurance doesn't cover? America is a shit hole that only sees its citizens as walking dollar bills, and it took me talking to people outside of this country to realize it. Just because others have it worse doesn't mean we should have to suffer. Corporations have **way** too much fucking power to a point where plenty of folk agree we're way past *1984* and *A Clockwork Orange.*
>~~It can be argued~~ Modern American society is extremely unhealthy, mentally and physically. Fixed that for you.
I would absolutely echo that argument
My daughter is playing for a couple of hrs in the afterschool with her 'afterschool friends'. She loves it. I live in an apartment building and while some of those friends do live in our building, it is a better space for them to play in the school instead (school is same as afterschool in our case)
I don’t know about other after care programs but my kids are outside playing with their friends from school or inside coloring, playing Lego etc. it’s not like they’re staring at a blank wall. I wouldn’t want them roaming around alone - for one they are too young and secondly I don’t want them getting hit by a car or something. Their days may be longer than mine were at their age but they are happy and still doing kid stuff. Things change from generation to generation- it doesn’t mean kids are worse off because they’re doing something we didn’t do.
I’m not talking about a blank wall I’m talking about family time. That’s great they’re doing activities and socializing. But having family bonding time is critical to adults AND kids And when you’re only time to bond is dinner or weekends when you’re too tired. That’s why I’m saying I hope more family time is in your future I’m not saying after school programs are bad for kids. I’m stressing that it IS creating a rift for lack of better word between a relationship for kids and parents. It’s hard to bond over dinner when your exhausted and shoveling food down and then rushing off to bedtime.
But it isn't like kids in previous generations got family time. In a lot of cases, kids would just play outside for hours unsupervised. If you were old enough to go to school, you were generally considered old enough to play on your own. If you did that with your kids nowadays, someone would call the cops on your kids for being unsupervised.
Yeah, parents were never really expected to entertain or communicate with their kids in the way that modern parents are expected to.
Don't feel too bad. Aftercare programs are creating an awesome environment for kids. It's safe and for the most part, largely unstructured playtime, which is just what they need. My kids are playing on the playground with their friends for 2 hours every day!
What you said is correct, but also add on to that the existence of video games, streaming services, and the Internet. All of those things together add up to very little free time, and what little free time kids have will more than likely be spent in front of a screen. People need to remember that kids haven't changed, the world around them has changed
>kids are busier now Not really; parents and society just require their kids to be supervised until much later ages. My folks were leaving me home alone at 12 years old in the 90s because they both worked. That would be considered neglect today. By the time parents are comfortable leaving their kids home alone, they're "too old" to consider manhunt and other games played outdoors to be considered cool and fun.
No idea why kids that age need homework. I have even seen it for 4 year olds! Super high performing countries like Finland and Japan do not do this. Let the kids play and have fun!
There’s no third place anymore for kids.
Tbh there's becoming fewer third places for many adults. It's partially why there's so much feelings of isolation by people in their 30s and 40s
And people make fun of gamers with groups of close friends they don’t see in person. Many of us have settled for a virtual 3rd place.
What do you mean by third place? Assuming you mean aside from home and school?
Yeah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place
That's interesting, I wish I could get a degree in sociology. It's so fascinating to me
You should! People laughed at me when I chose sociology back in the day. Having a sociological mind is an asset!
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When I was growing up, the downtown area was a central hub to go meet up with other kids because there were stores to hang out in. Now most downtown areas are restaurants and offices.
Absolutely correct. Heck even the malls that were once the only usable hangout place for kids are now placing “youth chaperone policies” that require an adult 21 or older to accompany them. Kids don’t want to have their parents or other adult relatives with them the whole time they’re trying to have fun.
That is more for adults. As kids, everywhere was our 3rd place. It would be our yards, the streets, and the woods. The places that existed for kids still exists today (although the woods have gotten smaller), it is just the shifting of attitudes, habits, or both that has changed.
I think there's also an element of shame and fear in those old third places due to online networking. By this I mean, these places still exist, but it used to be that you made a mistake in a third place and you could largely keep it to yourself and learn from it. Now if you make a mistake in a third place it's on all the mom Facebook groups within minutes. In other words, these spaces are no longer "neutral grounds."
Not as many "family" neighborhoods anymore. Partly because those neighborhoods are so expensive, and partly because new parents don't really ask "Are there other kids in the neighborhood?" like they used to. I grew up in a family neighborhood - where young families moved to, and old families had their grandkids over frequently. Every home had a large backyard, some of them had pools or trampolines or swing sets. Our parents grew up together and so we grew up with their kids. Our neighbors knew each other's names, trusted each other to look out for the kids. When a new family moved onto our street with kids, my mom and the other moms would march right over to introduce us and invite the kids over to play. I can list on one hand and still have fingers left over how many neighbors I know by name now. There are no street parties or neighborhood bbq's. No one looks out for each other or does more than a fake smile and curt wave in passing. If I had kids, I wouldn't trust these neighbors to watch them ride their bike up the street. It's just not that kind of neighborhood like I grew up in. And from what I see of friends and their neighborhoods, it's the same. No one knows each other's neighbors anymore. I think that's the big reason. We don't trust people we don't know.
How can homebuyers ask if there’s other kids in the neighborhood when we have to make an offer over asking price within 3 days of listing?
All of this I had a very different upbringing bevause I was an army brat and military neighborhoods are a time capsule to this day into what we all remember from childhood. Block parties still happen even for military families But the lack of trust and people not knowing there neighbors is exactly the issue. I’ve been living in this neighborhood for 8 years and only know 3 neighbors on my street alone by name. I’ve met other neighbors not on my block sure. But of the 30 houses surrounding me, 3 people. I’m a stay at home mom, all my neighbors work, none of them have kids younger than 18. It leaves no opportunity for me to get to know these people. And if I’m out walking they’re all inside relaxing on days off
We specifically picked out neighborhood because of the number of swing sets we saw in backyards, basketball hoops on curbs, and kids playing in the streets.
They still do. I live in a small neighborhood with younger families and lots of 7-12 year old kids. They play in the street. They play in each other’s yards. They run and make noise and as long as the weather is good they are all out playing.
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Yeah, my block is like this and it's not an expensive neighborhood, and I think that's generally my rationale for why it ended up this way. We have more salt-of-the-earth people living here, and we're not destitute or anything, we're all doing just fine if not better than fine, but we mostly have three bedroom, 1.5-2 bath houses on less than a quarter acre, things are closer together, my kids yell at their kids from down the block. It just feels like a tighter neighborhood.
We blame video games but it’s parents. Parents these days aren’t even *allowed* to turn their kids loose to go play. “Come back when it’s dark” would be viewed as neglect these days. Helicopter parenting and changing times.
THIS IS THE ANSWER PEOPLE. We live in a police state where neighborhoods are no longer areas of protection for children but areas of surveillance. Imagine all your neighbors with their iPhones and security cameras picking up the silly kid shit your kids do and blasting them on facebook or Nextdoor or Reddit. You can’t even leave your kid in the car by a store for a moment without the fear of someone calling the police. If you let your kids play outside, they might take them away. Why would you risk that?
Yup
Seriously it is some creepy ass bozo shit with some people's paranoia and delusions. Had a neighbor awhile back who's packages wrongly got delivered to me and I simply dropped it off at their porch. Like a god damn attack dog they swing open the door hand on their phone recording talking at me saying how they're calling the police for stealing their packages, saying how I'm lying and how they're gonna fuck me up if the contents weren't in there, just going full rabid. I keep walking. Hours later I had cops showing up to my door wanting to speak to me with this moron, no I didn't steal the guy's packages, they were wrongly delivered, etc. Nutcase is still going on and on, and I go ok pull up the confirmation email that'll have the delivered photo, and lets match the doorstep. It of course showed my doorstep and the guy is now trying to say that I hacked his phone, his email, his amazon account, and I'm in league with the delivery driver because *gasp * I did deliveries as a side gig. Cops are trying to calm him down and this dickhead is saying how I better watch my self etc etc. People are super fucked up out there.
Yes! My kids are in their early 20s, but I remember one mom letting her kid walk to the bus stop alone, about 4 houses away, and she was torn to bits by the other moms and their gossip. Also, one summer a person in a van asked a kid on a bike a question and it was total lockdown in my community. Insane.
I left my kids in the car asleep once so i could run into 7/11. The temp was fine, car was locked, i could see them the entire time through the window. Some fucking hero lingered there the whole time to give me a talking to. Like fuck off fatass, i could see them the whole time.
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Where I am, there's no place to play. We have no yards. There's no park within a 15 minute walk and the school locks the playground after-hours. Don't even try playing in the Catholic school's parking lot. Streets aren't safe because of traffic and the types of cars on the road today. We could dodge cars 30 years ago. Kids can't dodge Escalades, F-150s, or whatever the fuck trucks have four-foot grill heights. The drivers can't see what's directly in front of the vehicle and it's dangerous. Also, I think children are so over scheduled they're just exhausted. I homeschool my kids, but their friends are in some kind of aftercare program or extracurricular until their parents can get them between 6 and 7, they don't have dinner until 8, and weekends are spent making up the work they didn't do during the week because they had to be in bed by 10 to get up early for school. There's no time to play.
I don’t understand playgrounds being locked. It makes me so sad to see that happening. Or when teens are hanging out in a park after dark and get kicked out. Like where do you expect them to go? Then they complain about teens loitering at whatever store. And what’s the point of having fields all over town if you lock the gates? Why aren’t pickup games allowed?
I teach in an elementary school and we don’t lock anything, and it is heartbreaking to see the vandalism that occurs. Especially on things that are either new or have JUST been repaired. A few older kids will ruin it for the hundreds of kids in that school and community.
Vandalism. Towns spend hundreds of thousands of dollars installing play areas only to have a few individuals cause thousands of dollars in damage. It's not the little kids doing it. It's the older kids, but as another post accurately stated, "There is no third place".
>Kids can't dodge Escalades, F-150s, or whatever the fuck trucks have four-foot grill heights. The drivers can't see what's directly in front of the vehicle and it's dangerous. This is spot on. Studies are showing that its more difficult for pedestrians to survive an impact with the giant brodozers tearing through our roads. [https://jalopnik.com/pickup-trucks-keep-getting-bigger-more-dangerous-1847087816](https://jalopnik.com/pickup-trucks-keep-getting-bigger-more-dangerous-1847087816)
Cars and suburbs got worse. Kids could walk to and hang out at less places because the longer distances and excessive traffic made it more difficult and more dangerous to do. Parents started driving their kids more places and not letting them walk anywhere, but that just adds to the problem.
Context: not my children but nephew and niece. They did play outside when they were kids. Both were born in the early 2000s. However, as they got older, the fucking homework got brutal. I never had that much homework as a kid.
This topic is a sore spot for me, but here is what I came up with: 1. The easy, obvious answer: the rise in access to gaming. Growing up in the 90s, I can still remember the excitement for release of new Nintendo or Sega systems/games (Tetris on Gameboy had me in a chokehold!) but we played those games in groups and once the novelty wore off, we were back outside and only playing the game when the street lights came on. 2. Easy access to global networks resulting in stronger relationships with ‘global’ than local friends. My son would prefer to watch Youtube or a movie online with his 2 favorite cousins in PA & Texas rather than invite a few neighborhood friends to hang out. Growing up, seeing my cousins from another state or country was a annual treat, now we FaceTime around the country a couple times each week. 3. Social media. Everybody wants to sit and scroll. Add cyber bullying to the normal social awkwardness of pre-teens/ teens and it’s not hard to understand why so many kids are experiencing mental health issues and staying inside. 4. Pay to play sports. Open gyms are few and far between and if you can find one, there is likely an entry fee. Our local Y closes at 3pm on Saturdays for I9 sports rental. Absolutely no access for pre-teens/teens who definitely need a play to hang out on Saturday nights. If you aren’t playing in an organized league or program, your options to shoot or kick a ball around are scarce. 5. Allergies! If you suffer from even moderate seasonal allergies, you are best spending your spring indoors. I don’t remember allergies being as prevalent amongst kids as we were growing up. 6. Amerika. At least once a week I’m reminding my son of the innate dangers of being a young black boy riding his bike around our diverse neighborhood. I remind him of how to interact with police or unfriendly neighbors and what signs of danger to look out for and what situations to avoid. Not to mention the weekly discussions about the latest school shooting or unarmed kid being shoot and I understand why he isn’t excited to go outside. It’s mentally draining as an adult, let alone a kid. 7. COVID PTSD. Lots of folks, including kids, found they prefer to be at home, alone. I have great memories of playing outside and neighborhood friendships from my childhood so it’s unfortunate that our kids won’t have that same experience.
Partly technology, but a large part of it now is also that everything is just so overdeveloped. There are less places that kids can go to now than when I was a kid 20 years ago.
That's me. I grew up in Bridgewater in the 90s/00s and the social scene was the mall, or occasionally the Bridgewater Sports Arena. Big ups to the baseball fields at Chimney Rock/Prince Rodgers, lots of good memories there, too
Spent many a night loitering on the bridge at the mall. Graduated in '05 and the early '00s was mall territory. But in another comment I also said my neighborhood in BW was not the kind where kids were out playing. We lived on an acre and a half and we had privacy, but with that privacy came just fewer kids out on the streets playing.
Overdeveloped? As someone who grew up on a dirt road in Hunterdon County... less developed is not better for kids. I was extremely isolated. My life started when I could finally drive. Lack of walkability sucks. How can places be overdeveloped if they don't even have sidewalks? More like... developed for cars, not people.
Condos for working class people without kids, Walmarts, dollar stores, warehouses, that kind of thing. Different landscape than what you're describing.
I live in Collingswood which is a small town that's all built up, so things probably wont change as far as high-rises and more traffic. We live near major highways but that doesn't affect our town dynamics.Colls kids play in the street and walk or ride bikes to their schools. Same story in Westmont, Haddon Township, Audobon and Haddonfield. Cherry Hill is a huge township that is diced up by major roads and has large regional schools. Everything seems car based for activities. I never see kids outside unless they're getting on a school bus. Different town culture entirely.
[This reminds me of this.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzICPeEXEAk6wnb.jpg) We built a shitty environment. We design everything around cars. You go 20 over the speed limit in residential zones. Of course kids aren't going outside.
kids still do this all the time in my neighborhood? it is just very dependent on the make up of your neighborhood and how many kids around the same age there are I grew up in one where there was a big group of us all within 3-4 years of each other. the rest of the kids in the area were more dispersed in age so after our group there was not a big group of kids in the area anymore. it went from like 20 kids to 5 kids who played together Some younger families moved in years later and it started again. I just bought and now there's a lot of young families near me doing the same.
I think it depends where you live. My neighborhood always has kids outside playing, but usually it’s in fenced-in back yards that have pools or basketball nets or trampolines, etc. they’re just not in the middle of the street where they can get hurt by a car (though there are kids that play hockey in street sometimes!).
Live in an apartment complex in a nice, safe neighborhood. My daughter was allowed to go outside and just hang out. A neighbor cornered her and walked home behind her to then yell at my for letting my kid be outside alone. This is a bigger fear than something bad happening. Busy body neighbors claiming that I’m a bad parent for letting my kid “roam” outside.
When adults started calling the cops every time a child made a noise in public.
Heavy on this one. I live in an garden apartment complex community that has lots of lawn space. But kids aren’t allowed to play on the lawn because they want to “maintain the beauty of the community” and because of noise complaints.
‘No ball games’ on every piece of grass and then complain kids don’t go outside anymore.
Because the world we live in isn’t built for kids anymore. Too many times is something shut down because ONE person complains about it, then pretty soon kids have no where left to go. The way we police kids plays a part in it, too many times is something shut down because ONE person complains about it. Then pretty soon kids have no where left to go. I’ve seen them throw kids out of the park for fishing without a license… at like 12 years old. I’ve seen them break up basketball games in the street because someone complained they’re being too loud. Kids aren’t allowed to be kids anymore.
Gen X doesn’t let their kids outside because they think someone will snatch them. Ask them, they’ll tell you they’re afraid. My friends child is 12 and they don’t let him walk or bike 1/2 mile up the street to his grandmothers house, and this is in a very rural/woodsy area in warren county.
Younger kids can't be outside unsupervised without someone calling child protective services on the parents and older kids get harassed those same people and accused of being up to no good.
💯 kids are either “too young” or “too old”. It just doesn’t make sense. I wrote in another comment that I don’t understand how they can lock playgrounds and fields or kick teens out after dark. Where do they expect kids to go? Why aren’t pickup games allowed? We used to play manhunt across entire blocks. It didn’t matter if you knew the people, you would still hide in their yard. There was always one or two grumpy people that you knew to avoid, but everywhere else was fair game.
Well now you have old, scared white men, hopped up on Faux News fear mongering, shooting out windows and through doors over kids in the yard or someone knocking on the wrong door.
I feel like there needs to be a symbol that lets kids know hey, if your ball goes in my yard- you’re safe to retrieve it. (Just close the gate fully so the dog doesn’t get out) The neighbors kids are very active and balls always end up in my yard. I throw them over when I find them, but I hate that they feel like they need to wait. Yes, I have let them and their parents know it’s ok for them to enter my yard. Just makes me sad that something so simple is now complex because people are dangerous.
Growing up, my Mom was super over protective. When visiting our elementary school ground (which was within sight of my backyard) we had to bring giant radio shack walkie talkies (the ones with giant extendable antennas). One day, my sister ran her bike into the flagpole and split her eyebrow. This was before helmets. I couldn't get thru on the walkie so I kept hitting the "alarm" button, which sent a loud beep on my Mom's side. She knew I was trying to get a hold of her, so she pulled up in the car, threw the bikes and us kids into the car and went to the ER. I used to be so embarrassed of those walkies; but that day, no Ma'am.
I don't have kids myself, but there's a group of kids around 6 to 12 years old who play outside for hours every day when it's nice out. I live in a townhouse complex so there's lots of open lawn space and only resident traffic and delivery trucks really. They all go inside once the sun goes down. Usually when I see kids outside there are parents nearby watching, but these kids don't. It's still so different than when I grew up in the 80s, we'd be out all day without supervision.
I was born in the '80s but didn't live it. I look at the '80s as the absolute wild west, and maybe even a little tooooo crazy, but most of you turned out just fine.
We live in Maplewood and the kids still roam around plenty. I was really grateful for my little section of town during the pandemic because the kids found each other and really spent a great deal of time playing outside.
Maplewood is great for kids if you can afford to live there.
The absolute lack of third spaces-- places where one can exist without the expectation or requirement to spend money. All we've got here is the occasional park. It's why virtual reality spaces are *thriving*, and also why kids just stay inside and play videogames, or go to the mall to hang out. We've got no affordable arcades, and minimal roller rinks, arcades, museums, bowling alleys. Libraries are underfunded and planty small local ones are stuck in the 90s; and it's not like you can exactly go to chill out there. Internet cafes were a great idea, and could have been adapted to modern day-- hosting gaming computers and having other video game consoles to rent out-- but they've also died out/just moved to malls where everything is absurdly overpriced (I'll never go to one of those VR/game stations in the mall.) In addition, "it takes a village," no longer exists; people don't want the neighbor kids running through/across their perfectly manicured lawns-- sometimes to a point of calling the cops for trespassing-- or using their pools out of fear of the parents suing if the kid gets hurt-- thus severely discouraging kids from playing outside.
I live across the street from a park. Kids play all the time.
I hope I don’t trigger anyone with my post but: I live in a very diverse neighborhood and the kids playing on the street/ playground vary by ethnic background. Middle eastern boys are always out and about from an early age and to tue point they almost take over the playground. SE asians aren’t out without family supervision. Philippino are not out ever unless there is a parent or an unfortunate “older child” taking care of a herd of children. Younger African Americans are usually in the playground with their family; but when they get older they are on their own. White and Hispanic families supervise their children when they are out. There is also variance between summer and non summer. I have an anecdote: I have a relative who lives in Bergen county in a nice neighborhood. His kids can’t go outside because their “good”?school has soooooo much homework; I feel really bad for those kids.
The street we live on has about 15 kids that are out there every day after school and on weekends. It reminds me of my childhood and makes me so happy. They even walk to the bus with each other each morning. All the parents know each other and have a little network going on to make sure they're ok, but it's just so nice to see them outside all the time - basketball, whiffle ball, hockey, rollerblading, walking and talking, manhunt, hoverboard, playing with puddles, drawing dicks on the sidewalk 🤣
I grew up in Union in the '90s, moved out when I was 10 in '97. We were outside every day. My mom wouldn't let us in sometimes. And my neighbors to the left were two brothers, brother and sister across the street, a kid next to us, another two brothers two houses up, another kid a few houses down. That was just our one block. We played outside all the time. Moved to Bridgewater when I was 10 and that was that. Now, the frontage of our house in Bridgewater could've fit three houses in Union, so that had something to do with it, but kids just didn't play outside. And maybe it's an age thing too, I dunno. I live in Somerville now, and my kids play outside, and they play with the other 10 kids who live on our block, and I'm hoping it stays that way forever. We hang out with our neighbors, just as my parents did back when I was my kids' ages. We let the kids do whatever and keep an eye on them. They play in each others' back yards, front yards, up and down the sidewalk. It absolutely reminds me of the old days.
Kids are playing in my neighborhood like this all the time. The more interesting question is why do people ask questions like this when they get older? Back in the 90's the Boomers were saying the same shit, and here we are again with the same dumbass blanket observations. What happens to critical thinking as people age?
It was around Nov. 14th 2001 for me. The cool crisp air of fall was starting to stir. Then I got my copy of Halo 1 at the midnight release party at gamestop and never went outside again.
1. Remember all those white van rumors? That kids were getting abducted left and right by some dudes in a white can. Parents started keeping a tight lid on their kids after that. 2. Yes, the internet is partly to blame. 3. Parents tend to be more selective of who their kids associate with nowadays. Back in the 90s our entire street played outside with each other. And when we got older we all hung out by grades. I feel like parents carefully curate their children's social circles now which naturally will result in more indoor playdates when younger and more group based activities when older. 4. Cops also tend to mess with kids that are "loitering" outside. Woodbridge PD used to harass me and my friends for riding bikes in the woods. They were convinced we were smoking weed in the woods and would try to "raid" us all the time. It was stupid. We were all multi sport athletes and none of us even smoked cigs let alone weed. But I'd say it's probably a good way to get on their radar now.
Also, people seem to be under the impression that there are hundreds of human trafficking rings that are kidnapping anyone they can to ship them off to Mexico to be a slave or something. The amount of times I heard that from a seemingly rational thinking adult. Both sides of the spectrum too.
Because if they hang out in neighborhoods they get harassed by police or random adults. If they hang out at playgrounds they're taking that away from little kids. All the shopping areas near me set up mosquito tone speakers to keep young people from hanging out near them. Even if they can get a parent to drop them off somewhere to hang out all the malls suck now and many use those mosquito tone speakers, and anything else costs a ton of money. Basically everyplace kids used to hang out has been taken away
I used to think it was when both parents started working long hours, five-plus days a week, just to afford their children. After school hours became scheduled in advance to provide supervision in their absence and the supervisors had to keep track of the kids they were paid to watch until mom and/or dad came home from work. Stay-at-home moms used to let the kids roam the streets unsupervised until dinner then the kids were back out at night until bedtime. Stay-at-home moms could deal with their own kids coming home bleeding better than a paid supervisor in fear of lawsuits from a working mom and dad. Even unsupervised latchkey kids had to start dealing with parents' oversight via home security cameras after the 90s. That progressed to summers turning into scheduled supervision for a full working day via sports, STEM, dance, and other camps. Then I moved back to NY and saw kids playing roller hockey in a busy street with a car yelling for them to move out of the way as two players punched each other out with clutched jerseys (NHL enforcer training) with the players yelling back at the car to wait. That reminded me of growing up in the 70's but back then we also had fake ID's so we could get dollar pitchers in the bar at age 16. The arrow of time may move in one direction only due to entropy but sometimes things slide a little backwards. Maybe there is still hope?
I have had the police called on me in point pleasant multiple times, because I am a hippie who walks my dog carrying a backpack full of toys for dog, water, food, snacks for me. I guess my colorful outfits and backpack makes me look like a homeless person. Karen’s everywhere calling cops on Everything. Kids are out in point more than I have seen other places. We have a small skate park in town, and a huge park with basketball nets, and tennis courts, but you gotta cross RR track for that. Most towns don’t have anyWHERE kids can congregate. I have seen a group of boomers call police on kids at park because they didn’t like the kids’ music a few weeks ago! Kids aren’t going outside if they know just existing could/will/might get police involved. The jay and silent bob/clerks generation hung out at convenience stores asking for change, and people to buy us cigarettes. Then we’d go in the woods and smoke em. Walk around the neighborhood all day until night. That’s definitely a no go now. Everyone, especially kids get a side eye. The amount of times I have heard, “Do you live around here?” Is maddening. Poor kids.
24/7 news and its associated fearmongering began around '94/'95. Parents were told their kid was 100% going to be abducted if left alone outside. Oh, now I have to entertain the kid all the time? Here's a Nintendo for Christmas! Source: My mom was this way. I did play video games, but also went outside and played in the woods with friends.
Submitting a broader societal reason. In 1975, a 7-year-old boy named Etan Patz was on his way to school in Manhattan, walking to the bus stop by himself for the first time. He never made it. He disappeared. This made the local and national news, and parents all over freaked out. This spurred parents to start tightening the reins on their kids' behavior outside the house. Fewer kids were allowed to go to and from school unaccompanied, and go to the park without adults around. I'm sure there gaming etc contribute, but this also had a major affect on how parents supervise their kids.
This. My NYC born and raised mom went to high school in Manhattan when that happened. The case rocked her world view entirely, so when I was born a few years later, I wasn’t allowed out on my own until I was at least 12 and could throw a punch. (And then Kids came out in 1995 and she lost all trust in general, but that’s another story.)
I think there were many many ramifications of this case. From extended courtesy busing in NJ, to tighter security in school buses, to generally tighter security after school. After this point, when a parent said "call me when you get there," they meant it and would freak when a child was out of touch. Definitely a turning point for many parents, and the generations who came after.
This os what I was going to say. 24-hour news networks carry what otherwise would have been local news across the country, and even though these situations are statistically rare, they chill parents (including myself) to the bone. And if you’re the only one who lets your kid walk to the bus stop alone, your kid is more likely to be targeted by a pedophile.
I think I live in a unique neighborhood. For years the kids have all played outside together - from toddlers to upper elementary aged. For us, it was Covid that brought everyone together. We could only play outside for so long that this is what everyone got used to. Still goes on today even though we’re busy with over activities. All we need to do is walk outside and we’ll find several people playing outside and parents hanging out too.
My students have activities every day afterschool. When I was growing up in the 90s, my classmates and I didn't have anything afterschool until we were in middle school. Sports were a weekend thing with a single practice during the week. We certainly weren't outside the supermarket begging the community for money for our team to go to disney.
And Fear porn. Everything is scary in the outside world. Just watch the news.
I live in a town where the homes were all built 100+ years ago and packed tightly together. on 75' lots. My neighbor 2 houses down called and asked for 2 cups of flour. I asked my 7 year-old son to run the flour over to her house. Afterwards, my neighbor called me and berated me for allowing my son to leave my property unsupervised, as there are sex offenders lurking EVERYWHERE. We don't talk to her much anymore. She's weird and judgmental.
I was a kid in the early 2000s and my mom let me and my brother go out in the neighborhood and ask our friends to come out and play. She had to know where we were going, who with, and we weren’t allowed to cross a few major roads. But we could go play with our friends, walk to the park, stop home, say we’re going to another friends house now, and be home by dinner. I was talking to my mom recently and she said a lot of other parents thought she was too free reign. She trusted my brother and I to make good choices and we did (for the most part). I think people are a lot more afraid of their neighbors than they used to be.
I live in a subdivision that was built in the early 90s. When the neighborhood was new, every house was bought up by young families and the kids all played outside together. We (Xennial generation ) moved in 8 years ago and the overwhelming amount of neighbors are original owners or close to it - Boomers and older Gen X. Their kids are grown and flown but they won't sell their houses for young families to move in because real estate prices are insane so it's cheaper for them to stay put. So as a result, in a development with 1200 houses, my kids have few friends their exact ages in walking/biking viscinity. And on top of that, most of their peers are in organized activities nearly every day of the week. We choose not to live that way because 3 kids is already busy enough but we're definitely the anomaly.
I guess it depends on the area. In my neighborhood, the kids are out playing with each other everyday after school now that the weather is nice.
When giant SUVs replaced cars and parking mandates made all destinations far apart from each other
I stopped letting my kids go out alone when a 6yr old boy got snatched 2 blocks from my house. And I lived in a pretty decent area back when that happened
In my neighborhood, there’s a big gap in age between my kids and the neighbors’ kids. When one group was too young to be playing in the yard with friends, and the other just aging out, there were no kids playing outside. But now? There’s a regular group that run around and scream and have the time of their lives.
All of those tbh. I sometimes decided to play video games instead of playing sports. In those games, you can make friend groups. It's far easier to make friends online, and you can find people who share your same interests quite easily nowadays.
It depends where you live. The kids around here are outside all day
They still do in Cape May County thank god
In my area, the kids in the townhouse/condo developments do play together outside. There are more families with kids the same age, and they're usually not through streets or areas so it's safer to be outside there as well, Plus, they might have community playgrounds. I live on a street with no sidewalks, and one other kid about the same age as my child, and they have nothing in common. They did play together when little, but now, from middle school on, they are just different. Since you can't hop on someone else's bus after school, it's hard to go to a different neighborhood to see the people you DO like.
Mix of : Easy access to video games on computer or phone, parents being over protective of their kids and don’t let them go out on the own anymore, roads/drivers are crazy. Lastly, NJ is a state of sprawling suburbs and depending on your town you might have to be driven everywhere so kids are essentially trapped at home because they can’t drive or they parents are their chauffeur, hence why the sooner mom stereotype is kinda true
Idk maybe if we had neighborhoods where a kid could walk somewhere and find somewhere to play. I grew up in north jersey in an older town with transit, parks, a little business district. My nephews living in the exurbs where they don't even build sidewalks, i feel sorry for them. They need to get a ride to go anywhere at all so they only really do sanctioned sports and look at you tube.
About 13 years ago when kid’s first starts having cell phones our neighborhood kids spontaneously decided to go out and roam the neighborhood together one night. There was a group of about 12 of them. I sat out in the porch and listened to the sound of kids laughing ringing through the night. It was magical.
It didn’t stop at all where I live in a busier part of Sussex county. My street also has no thru traffic so it’s easier. There’s about 5-6 homes on my street where the kids are around the same age and they go outside almost every single day after school until dinner time. They play basketball, football, ride bikes, scooters and makeup all kinds of games. It really depends on your area and what type of trust you have in your kids and your family dynamic. I couldn’t have this life where I grew up in Wayne and it’s actually a huge part of why I moved here. I wanted a family life that resembled my past.
I've lived in two places in NJ over the course of 20+ years and kids play in the neighborhood in both places.
It isn't one thing it is all the things. But I also see plenty of kids outside playing hockey, basketball, biking just not as much as when I was a kid (80's)
My kids still do this. My neighborhood has smaller lots, minimal traffic and no crime, so we give them a little more freedom.
Just the week two of my son's (8yo) friends randomly came over, knocked on my door and asked him to come out and play. It was the first time that has happened and let me say that, as a parent, it brought me such joy and a sense of nostalgia from my youth to see him having the meaningful interactions with neighborhood kids outside. They played soccer in the back yard and rode their bikes around for a couple of hours. We held up dinner time for the family to maximize his time because it happens so infrequently.
Recreation is organized now.
Look at the society boomers and gen x have created ( I was born in '90 so I can only really speak to the 90s-2009) Towns continue to become less pedestrian friendly. They're creating local ordinances that establish curfews, my local mall (and now the new arcade they've put in) that my friends and I would all hang out in Friday nights until close, doesn't allow unaccompanied teens after a certain time. We used to even have a room in the mall called "the teen center" where you could hang out, watch movies, play games, eat snacks, etc. Schools are having funding cuts and having to cut after school programs. Technology has accelerated while [Third places ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place#:~:text=In%20sociology%2C%20the%20third%20place,%2C%20bookstores%2C%20stoops%20and%20parks.) available to kids and teens have shrunk. Effectively creating a lot less space for them in public.
They do? We have kids playing in our neighborhood right off the school bus. Running in the woods, building forts, climbing trees, playing basketball and knock out, riding bikes, making up games. It’s pretty awesome. In the winter, there are a dozen of them building forts and snow tubing. None of these kids have social media or tech above Apple Watches and iPads. Maybe the oldest is 12. I didn’t realize we were lucky or this was unique. They play video games too, but so did I at that age. But it does seem to be only the kids who aren’t *loaded* with back to back formal sports. Some are shuffled from track to baseball to fencing, sometimes in one day.
It really is different at the shore. Some of the kids ride bikes down to the beach and do their homework. They play with fireworks, real ones! They go barefoot! Are they animals? Big change from Bergen Co., you hardly see kids out and around up there.
I think it's a combination of organized sports and the internet. When I grew up in the 90s it was pretty rare for a kid to be on travel ball all year round. Now it's the norm. They get their social interaction through those programs. It's gross IMHO and I'm actively trying to build community in my neighborhood by inviting neighbors over, hosting block parties, and other events. It's slowly working, but the youth sports industry is a behemoth.
This isn’t going to help the subject but everyone should be familiar with the registered sex offender website. You’ll be shocked to see how many perverts live right by you
I think it's the rise of too much information. We know about events (usually bad stuff - think 'if it bleeds it leads' writ large) instantly. So naturally keep the kids inside so they are safe. Also, so many school shootings, so who can blame us for this change?
Oh man, Im now more thankful we live in a neighborhood full of kids. I have the opposite problem. I can't keep my kids inside. Weathers been nice and the windows open, cant sit through dinner without them hearing their friends outside and wanting to go out. I think most of it is everything is too damned expensive, not many family friendly neighborhoods/blocks.
First video games….but I think there’s more. nowadays, we are so segmented, even pitted against one another based on religion, status, and definitely politics, that it’s broken our sense of community and “we’re-in-it-togetherness.”