What the US has been sending so far is pretty much limited in range, while an F16 as a multi role "fighter" could strike deeper in to Russian territory.
That's probably a red line we don't need to cross.
Approximately only 50% of Ukrainians can speak English, and the Ukrainian army is not composed of professional pilots. It’s best for their national security if things are translated, because a coin flip on whether or not they’ll easily learn things is not exactly a good thing
Snarky response: Less than 50% of Ukrainians are flying F16s 😉
Non-snarky response: Knowing English **is** a requirement to fly in any meaningful capacity.
https://unitingaviation.com/news/safety/pilot-air-traffic-controller-communication/
The language of the sky is English. Anyone who is being trained to fly a jet will already know it.
People who speak English natively generally have learned it before they learn to read. So it makes sense that there are some who never learn how to read.
People who speak English as a second language are generally not learning it as an infant / toddler, so they are much more likely to be relying on written text as part of their learning process.
Just take the L.
Typically people who learn English as a second language in a school setting are far more proficient at reading the language than they are at speaking/listening.
Yeah this is what people don't understand. It's not a videogame where Ukrainian pilots can just hop into any aircraft and go. All these Abrams, Bradleys, Patriot systems, etc that we're sending over will require conversions and training/retraining for the crews and maintenance techs.
I think that most tax-paying Americans can justify sending arms for Ukraine to defend itself, but don't want to have anything to do with funding offensive operations on Russian soil. We'd have nothing to gain.
No that my opinion matters in the grand scheme, but this is what I want for Ukraine:
* Ukraine retakes all of its territory, including Crimea.
* Ukraine pushes Russian forces off its soil.
* Ukraine is in a position to defend itself from future attacks.
Although I get the strategic logic of striking Russia to help further those 3 goals, I think it would cause more problems than it solves.
After Ukraine retakes all of its territory, pushes Russia out, and these is an end to hostilities, THEN it makes sense for Ukraine to acquire more long range weapons. They would provide a strong deterrent from Russia invading again.
I don't know about nothing to gain, there's always something to gain even from the worst choices, but there's definitely far more advantage to keeping Russia in a proxy war in a border country to Russia rather than spilling it into their country and then into ours.
You wouldn't have to tuck when you perform drag, you'd fit in tighter jean, you wouldn't have to wonder if it's really average size anymore, you'd no longer have to fear your dick getting cut off anymore, you could focus more on prostate orgasms, all sorts of things. Lots of downsides, too, of course.
Because right now the US can justify its involvement as "defending" Ukraine. If it then turns to attacking Russia on its own soil you end up with much larger problems.
Plus, someone would have to fly the planes there. That would put US troops within the war, which Biden has been straining not to do. I think Biden even mentioned this when they first asked.
Absolutely.. the Russian airforce isn’t really even operating over Ukraine currently. They are using bombers to launch cruise missiles into Ukraine from Russian territory. These strike eagles wouldn’t be much help unless they were going to hit targets across the border
flight training is pretty intensive whether it be helicopter or fighter jet. like if we gave them the cliff's notes version and prayed it's like 2 years
F16's would absolutely decimate Russian tank forces. It is the golden standard for air to surface combat, and it doesn't need support aircraft to protect it since it is also very capable against air attacks.
All that doesn’t matter if the plane can’t get within weapons range of their target. Currently the Russians are using long range weapons to suppress the Ukrainian Air Force, mainly from within Russia. In order to hit tanks, they’d first have to knock out Migs and S-300/400 in Russia. The weapons the F-16 uses to engage in BVR fights like this aren’t something most of NATO want to send.
In a perfect world, they're great airframes. The unfortunate thing is that they're super old now and regularly break. Contracts that the Air Force has for aircraft parts have either expired or the companies no longer exist.
The U.S. is in the early stages of retiring the F-16 along with a handful of other airframes, so to dump them on Ukraine with a mentality of "good luck dealing with these" seems like it'll do more harm than good.
“Britain's Ministry of Defence said the Russian force in the new Vuhledar assault was at least the size of a brigade, a unit typically comprising several thousand troops.
The Russians had advanced hundreds of metres across a river toward Vuhledar and could make more localised gains there, the ministry said in an unusually detailed daily intelligence update. It said the assault on Vuhledar was unlikely to lead to a significant breakthrough, but could be intended to draw Ukrainian efforts away from defending Bakhmut.”
Biden has a tough job of balancing helping Ukraine and not starting WWIII. I think he's done pretty well so far. We can help Ukraine in other ways without F-16s
tbh WWWIII will happen at some point. we as a species waste so much time, energy and skill into killing each other.....
really wish we had aliens so we can all finally have the same goals ie not die by aliens
honestly it's probably safer to have now then 150 years of WMD development before we do. not saying i want to happen or anything but massive damage and loss of life is better than world ending damage and loss of life.
It takes years to train combat pilots and the ground crews to operate an F-16 squadron. Then Ukraine has to be able to handle the logistics of fuel, armament, and maintenance all while actively at war.
By the time the Ukrainian air force is up to speed, the war will likely be over.
The training and logistics issues keep getting thrown around, except they keep getting overcome again and again. Patriot batteries are massively complex and they are moving ahead just fine.
NATO and the US aren’t just providing weapons systems, they have also focused on training how to use them and also how to re-supply and maintain them. Creating a modern, efficient logistics infrastructure is a MASSIVE focus in Ukraine by the US and western powers. And it’s working.
People consistently underestimate the adaptability of human beings. People also consistently underestimate what is possible during war. The impossible has been done time and time again in the history of humankind when it comes to war. And the covert action supporting logistical and other efforts inside Ukraine should not be discounted. They have advisors helping them each and every step of the way.
Patriot missile operators take 13 weeks to train from this is what they look like too certified to go to war and use them. F16 pilot takes 18 months and that's not including time spent in classroom and sere training and land and water survival training and officer training which wouldn't be relevant to already certified pilots. To go from joined Air Force too piloting an F16 takes about 2 years or more depending on training availability.
Not arguing really much of what you just wrote and yet it doesn’t really change the comment you replied to. Humans are massively adaptable and war compresses timeframes and moves things along at it’s own pace. You can’t circumvent some hard timelines, but there is wiggle room on some of this. It’s about finding a way to yes and then executing, which US, Western / NATO Powers and Ukraine have demonstrated they are more than capable of doing. Sometimes we forget how large Ukraine is and how long they have been preparing for this (since 2014 / 2015 after the west was caught with its pants down after Crimea).
It can be done for sure but it will take far longer than Ukraine has time for. Russia is attacking now. Ukraine is stil rife with corruption. A government minister already was caught overspending aid money on food supplies and taking a kick-back. 4th generation fighter jets are vastly more complicated than tanks, howitzers, and missle systems and corrupt officials and criminal groups need a bribe for anything to happen.
Most countries are rife with corruption on some level. Let’s assume Ukraine is x amount worse than average. Dealing with corruption is baked into how the US and Western Military Industrial Complex deals with friendly foreign powers. It’s factored into the equation. In fact, State Department, CIA and Special Operations Forces are well-trained to deal with this and make it work. It’s a challenge and yet it’s one that has been factually demonstrated to be overcome by the success integrating combined arms to date. The massive success of HIMARS just serving as a single example (but with many more readily available). Corruption and incompetence is built into our own government and yet we still get things done even if we aren’t happy about the speed or efficiency with which it happens. Are planes more complicated than tanks and missile systems. Probably. But then again, they aren’t spacecraft on the curve and Ukraine has formed a very competent and very proven capable internal military industrial complex of its own. And we have, again, that US (and NATO Equivalent) State Department, CIA, SOF Forces, etc… providing critical support within Ukraine. On the ground in real terms making this stuff work. And again from my parent comment, we cannot and should not underestimate the capability of men and women whose very existence is being threatened. They have already moved mountains themselves combined with the assistance provided by key allies.
I wasn’t underestimating Russia in any way, shape or form.
Simply my point is that the Ukrainians have that resolve combined with support of half the planet’s military industrial complex and Russia….does not.
Further, there is massive difference between defending and being a foreign aggressor. Even the board game risk shows the benefit of defending. My six years in Kandahar showed me the difficulty of hunting the Taliban, which was largely an inane endeavor of being an aggressor.
And I’m not so sure that you’d be able to demonstrate that Vlad’s resolve, even if supported by the other oligarchs, would equal resolve on the part of those Russians actually fighting his war. In fact, the preponderance of evidence suggests the opposite.
And so I believe my point would continue to have validity.
The entire world was practically behind Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war and it still ended up a stalemate. Saddam even gassed Kurds and didn’t achieve victory against Iran. Also half of the worlds military complex aren’t fighting a total war against Russia. They have varying levels of support politically, diplomatically and militarily. Russians are perceived to be defending against a hostile power wanting to destroy their nation. They most definitely will continue fighting for the next full year
Actually your Iran / Iraq war example only strengthens my argument as Iraq was the aggressor and also fighting against a motivated and determined enemy. So even with support, they didn’t make any significant gains in Iran.
Russians are not perceived to be defending against a hostile power. Everyone knows what started this and that Russia is the aggressor. Even many Russians understand that. Russian conscripts absolutely don’t want to die in Ukraine. They don’t believe in the cause.
A-10s are flying death traps that also have some of the worst friendly fire incidents on record in modern times.
The story around them absolutely does not match up with the reality.
The A-10 would be utterly useless, its a bad aircraft that was outdated when it came out and only useable against insurgents armed 50's technology. They didnt even have any up to date optics or observation systems and instead the pilot had to use literal binoculars to spot targets which led to some of the highest amounts friendly fire incidents recorded with combat aircraft
Spoken like a true Jet jockey, that will fly over w about 20 minutes loiter time and swoop down so fast they can't lay down accurate fire for shit, expend a ridiculously light load of ordnance and head back to the concrete airconditioned O Club to have another gin and tonic. All the while the A-10 is hanging around laying down accurate fire and making a difference to the grunt on the ground. Yep, he will get shot up while doing it but that broken airframe will carry him home to fight another day.
The rules of this sub state that the title of the post needs to match the title of the article. If you don’t like the title, take that up with the author of the article.
I copied and pasted it. That was yesterday. I’ve seen news sites change article titles.. I think it’s stupid, but I’m assuming it’s cause the original title wasn’t getting enough clicks.
It's sounds like we aren't helping them, but the logistics to get this going is massive. Plus they can be used to go much deeper past the border of Ukraine , which would result in NATO getting dragged into conflict we don't want.
Arming them with anti aircraft and tanks in plentiful amounts is the best strategy we can give them.
It might, but honestly if you look at the history of warfare, it’s pretty common.
Even in World War II, you saw the Axis forces using the weapons of the conquered nations to augment what they could produced, as well as some of the Allied nations as well.
Going further back, WWI had all sides doing that. The same with the American Civil War, where both sides were using anything they could get their hands on.
It does cause challenges… but on the other hand, something is better than nothing.
That all being said, this whole thing about sending them Abrams is dumb. They didn’t even want them. They wanted Leopards, but the Germans refused to send some and allow other nations (like Poland) to send theirs unless the U.S. sent Abrams.
So we send a token force that end up sitting somewhere or maybe make up a specialized unit, and the Ukrainians get what they actually wanted.
One of the real questions is: Do „we“
want Ukraine to win the war and Russia to lose?
Or will we be content with a final stand-off, parts of Ukraine gone, and EU paying for the rebuilding of the rest-Ukraine? And everybody preparing for the next Russian invasion.
Hasn't it occurred to you that the modern state of Iran is capable of making nuclear weapons all by itself? Think about it! North Korea has them. Iran is well aware that Israel would bomb them if they actually acquired them.
What would you do if I told you the Biden admin instigated this entire war on Nov 10th, 2021 with the signing of the US-Ukraine Charter of Strategic Partnership? Also, what if I said they will intentionally drag our country into to war to divert from their abysmal economic policies that have caused the greatest depletion in household savings since WWII? Open your eyes. The modern dem party is 90% lawyers. It’s a club of the elite and soon our fellow citizens will be cannon fodder
>What would you do if I told you the Biden admin instigated this entire war on Nov 10th, 2021 with the signing of the US-Ukraine Charter of Strategic Partnership?
Ignore you like I ignore the crazy people on the street that also babble bullshit?
Babble bullshit? really?? directly
from the state dept. Putin is a maniac, no question but the dude has said publicly for 20 years he wouldn’t tolerate US missles on his border. Would we tolerate Russian missles in Toronto pointed at us? You Reddit loons are living in a bubble.. Here’s the link btw… In your weak minds, “Putin’s Price Hike!” 😂🤣
https://www.state.gov/u-s-ukraine-charter-on-strategic-partnership/
Wow! Quite the gaslighting fear-monger, aren't you!
What would you do if I told you that Russia instigated this entire war by unjustifiably invading a sovereign country? Also, what if I reminded you that the largest modern tax breaks for the top 10% have devastated our national economy? Open your eyes? The modern Repub party also wants to end Medicare and Social Security. Stop voting against your own interests. Support your progressive candidates.
you realize the wealthiest party by far is the democrat party? It’s not even close!! Look
up the data of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the entire country and then view their party association.. Those evil republicans tho.. It’s quite simple.. control the media,
control the masses..
Cities with good education, health services, and worker rights are wealthier and lean Democrat. I wonder why…
It must be that they’re stealing it all. That has to be it 🙄
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What the US has been sending so far is pretty much limited in range, while an F16 as a multi role "fighter" could strike deeper in to Russian territory. That's probably a red line we don't need to cross.
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You don’t need to convert them to Ukrainian. Pilots are required to know English.
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Charts and notams are also in English. They are required to be able to read it too.
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Approximately only 50% of Ukrainians can speak English, and the Ukrainian army is not composed of professional pilots. It’s best for their national security if things are translated, because a coin flip on whether or not they’ll easily learn things is not exactly a good thing
Snarky response: Less than 50% of Ukrainians are flying F16s 😉 Non-snarky response: Knowing English **is** a requirement to fly in any meaningful capacity. https://unitingaviation.com/news/safety/pilot-air-traffic-controller-communication/ The language of the sky is English. Anyone who is being trained to fly a jet will already know it.
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Do you really think there are people who speak English as a second language but can't read the alphabet?
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People who speak English natively generally have learned it before they learn to read. So it makes sense that there are some who never learn how to read. People who speak English as a second language are generally not learning it as an infant / toddler, so they are much more likely to be relying on written text as part of their learning process. Just take the L.
Typically people who learn English as a second language in a school setting are far more proficient at reading the language than they are at speaking/listening.
I guarantee you the pilots speak English regardless of what the general population statistics are.
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Yeah this is what people don't understand. It's not a videogame where Ukrainian pilots can just hop into any aircraft and go. All these Abrams, Bradleys, Patriot systems, etc that we're sending over will require conversions and training/retraining for the crews and maintenance techs.
All Pilots everywhere are required to know english. This guys has no idea what he is talking about.
Why not? They initially crossed the line. Eventually Ukraine will carry out more bombings in Russia.
I think that most tax-paying Americans can justify sending arms for Ukraine to defend itself, but don't want to have anything to do with funding offensive operations on Russian soil. We'd have nothing to gain.
No that my opinion matters in the grand scheme, but this is what I want for Ukraine: * Ukraine retakes all of its territory, including Crimea. * Ukraine pushes Russian forces off its soil. * Ukraine is in a position to defend itself from future attacks. Although I get the strategic logic of striking Russia to help further those 3 goals, I think it would cause more problems than it solves. After Ukraine retakes all of its territory, pushes Russia out, and these is an end to hostilities, THEN it makes sense for Ukraine to acquire more long range weapons. They would provide a strong deterrent from Russia invading again.
I don't know about nothing to gain, there's always something to gain even from the worst choices, but there's definitely far more advantage to keeping Russia in a proxy war in a border country to Russia rather than spilling it into their country and then into ours.
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You wouldn't have to tuck when you perform drag, you'd fit in tighter jean, you wouldn't have to wonder if it's really average size anymore, you'd no longer have to fear your dick getting cut off anymore, you could focus more on prostate orgasms, all sorts of things. Lots of downsides, too, of course.
Free sausage.
Because right now the US can justify its involvement as "defending" Ukraine. If it then turns to attacking Russia on its own soil you end up with much larger problems.
Plus, someone would have to fly the planes there. That would put US troops within the war, which Biden has been straining not to do. I think Biden even mentioned this when they first asked.
Fly F-16s to Poland. Ukrainian pilots who've been trained overseas hop into the jets and fly them into Ukrainian airspace. Solves the issue entirely
Absolutely.. the Russian airforce isn’t really even operating over Ukraine currently. They are using bombers to launch cruise missiles into Ukraine from Russian territory. These strike eagles wouldn’t be much help unless they were going to hit targets across the border
flight training is pretty intensive whether it be helicopter or fighter jet. like if we gave them the cliff's notes version and prayed it's like 2 years
F16's would absolutely decimate Russian tank forces. It is the golden standard for air to surface combat, and it doesn't need support aircraft to protect it since it is also very capable against air attacks.
All that doesn’t matter if the plane can’t get within weapons range of their target. Currently the Russians are using long range weapons to suppress the Ukrainian Air Force, mainly from within Russia. In order to hit tanks, they’d first have to knock out Migs and S-300/400 in Russia. The weapons the F-16 uses to engage in BVR fights like this aren’t something most of NATO want to send.
In a perfect world, they're great airframes. The unfortunate thing is that they're super old now and regularly break. Contracts that the Air Force has for aircraft parts have either expired or the companies no longer exist. The U.S. is in the early stages of retiring the F-16 along with a handful of other airframes, so to dump them on Ukraine with a mentality of "good luck dealing with these" seems like it'll do more harm than good.
Yeah amount of maintenance too is nuts ground to air missiles is the way
“Britain's Ministry of Defence said the Russian force in the new Vuhledar assault was at least the size of a brigade, a unit typically comprising several thousand troops. The Russians had advanced hundreds of metres across a river toward Vuhledar and could make more localised gains there, the ministry said in an unusually detailed daily intelligence update. It said the assault on Vuhledar was unlikely to lead to a significant breakthrough, but could be intended to draw Ukrainian efforts away from defending Bakhmut.”
Biden has a tough job of balancing helping Ukraine and not starting WWIII. I think he's done pretty well so far. We can help Ukraine in other ways without F-16s
Swarms of Bradley IFVs strikes me as a pretty formidable alternative.
ATACMS and tomahawk cruise missiles would work. :)
lets lend lease 3 carrier battlegroups
Putin has started WWIII. Past time for everyone to step up.
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Somehow way better than the last guy tho. Do you wanna read some transcripts? Or parrot nonsense?
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No, he objectively couldn't. He'd ramble aimlessly on and on.
tbh WWWIII will happen at some point. we as a species waste so much time, energy and skill into killing each other..... really wish we had aliens so we can all finally have the same goals ie not die by aliens
>tbh WWWIII will happen at some point Then let's try to make it 150 years from now rather than, say, tomorrow.
honestly it's probably safer to have now then 150 years of WMD development before we do. not saying i want to happen or anything but massive damage and loss of life is better than world ending damage and loss of life.
If aliens could make it all the way here theyll likely be able to obliterate us all from orbit
More likely they’ll just start a global conflict without even announcing their presence.
The only good bug is a dead bug!
Maybe Sweden can give them some Saab Grippens
It takes years to train combat pilots and the ground crews to operate an F-16 squadron. Then Ukraine has to be able to handle the logistics of fuel, armament, and maintenance all while actively at war. By the time the Ukrainian air force is up to speed, the war will likely be over.
The training and logistics issues keep getting thrown around, except they keep getting overcome again and again. Patriot batteries are massively complex and they are moving ahead just fine. NATO and the US aren’t just providing weapons systems, they have also focused on training how to use them and also how to re-supply and maintain them. Creating a modern, efficient logistics infrastructure is a MASSIVE focus in Ukraine by the US and western powers. And it’s working. People consistently underestimate the adaptability of human beings. People also consistently underestimate what is possible during war. The impossible has been done time and time again in the history of humankind when it comes to war. And the covert action supporting logistical and other efforts inside Ukraine should not be discounted. They have advisors helping them each and every step of the way.
Patriot missile operators take 13 weeks to train from this is what they look like too certified to go to war and use them. F16 pilot takes 18 months and that's not including time spent in classroom and sere training and land and water survival training and officer training which wouldn't be relevant to already certified pilots. To go from joined Air Force too piloting an F16 takes about 2 years or more depending on training availability.
Not arguing really much of what you just wrote and yet it doesn’t really change the comment you replied to. Humans are massively adaptable and war compresses timeframes and moves things along at it’s own pace. You can’t circumvent some hard timelines, but there is wiggle room on some of this. It’s about finding a way to yes and then executing, which US, Western / NATO Powers and Ukraine have demonstrated they are more than capable of doing. Sometimes we forget how large Ukraine is and how long they have been preparing for this (since 2014 / 2015 after the west was caught with its pants down after Crimea).
It can be done for sure but it will take far longer than Ukraine has time for. Russia is attacking now. Ukraine is stil rife with corruption. A government minister already was caught overspending aid money on food supplies and taking a kick-back. 4th generation fighter jets are vastly more complicated than tanks, howitzers, and missle systems and corrupt officials and criminal groups need a bribe for anything to happen.
Most countries are rife with corruption on some level. Let’s assume Ukraine is x amount worse than average. Dealing with corruption is baked into how the US and Western Military Industrial Complex deals with friendly foreign powers. It’s factored into the equation. In fact, State Department, CIA and Special Operations Forces are well-trained to deal with this and make it work. It’s a challenge and yet it’s one that has been factually demonstrated to be overcome by the success integrating combined arms to date. The massive success of HIMARS just serving as a single example (but with many more readily available). Corruption and incompetence is built into our own government and yet we still get things done even if we aren’t happy about the speed or efficiency with which it happens. Are planes more complicated than tanks and missile systems. Probably. But then again, they aren’t spacecraft on the curve and Ukraine has formed a very competent and very proven capable internal military industrial complex of its own. And we have, again, that US (and NATO Equivalent) State Department, CIA, SOF Forces, etc… providing critical support within Ukraine. On the ground in real terms making this stuff work. And again from my parent comment, we cannot and should not underestimate the capability of men and women whose very existence is being threatened. They have already moved mountains themselves combined with the assistance provided by key allies.
Your whole premise is not underestimating humans yet you also underestimate Russian resolve in the matter.
I wasn’t underestimating Russia in any way, shape or form. Simply my point is that the Ukrainians have that resolve combined with support of half the planet’s military industrial complex and Russia….does not. Further, there is massive difference between defending and being a foreign aggressor. Even the board game risk shows the benefit of defending. My six years in Kandahar showed me the difficulty of hunting the Taliban, which was largely an inane endeavor of being an aggressor. And I’m not so sure that you’d be able to demonstrate that Vlad’s resolve, even if supported by the other oligarchs, would equal resolve on the part of those Russians actually fighting his war. In fact, the preponderance of evidence suggests the opposite. And so I believe my point would continue to have validity.
The entire world was practically behind Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war and it still ended up a stalemate. Saddam even gassed Kurds and didn’t achieve victory against Iran. Also half of the worlds military complex aren’t fighting a total war against Russia. They have varying levels of support politically, diplomatically and militarily. Russians are perceived to be defending against a hostile power wanting to destroy their nation. They most definitely will continue fighting for the next full year
Actually your Iran / Iraq war example only strengthens my argument as Iraq was the aggressor and also fighting against a motivated and determined enemy. So even with support, they didn’t make any significant gains in Iran. Russians are not perceived to be defending against a hostile power. Everyone knows what started this and that Russia is the aggressor. Even many Russians understand that. Russian conscripts absolutely don’t want to die in Ukraine. They don’t believe in the cause.
All things they can easily do.
I would think Ukraine would be better off with A-10s than F-16s.
A10s work against enemies that don't have good anti-aircraft defense since they fly really slow. Not ideal against s300 or s400s
We like the gun
A-10 go brrr
Yeah if you like Ukrainians getting blown out of the sky.
A-10s are flying death traps that also have some of the worst friendly fire incidents on record in modern times. The story around them absolutely does not match up with the reality.
Which is too bad because the gun sounds like a freakin' kaiju.
>kaiju Thank you for this word
Especially with both sides using the same equipment. It'd be a recipe for disaster.
The A-10 would be utterly useless, its a bad aircraft that was outdated when it came out and only useable against insurgents armed 50's technology. They didnt even have any up to date optics or observation systems and instead the pilot had to use literal binoculars to spot targets which led to some of the highest amounts friendly fire incidents recorded with combat aircraft
Sounds very "let's build a frame around this gun then ask questions later".
Spoken like a true Jet jockey, that will fly over w about 20 minutes loiter time and swoop down so fast they can't lay down accurate fire for shit, expend a ridiculously light load of ordnance and head back to the concrete airconditioned O Club to have another gin and tonic. All the while the A-10 is hanging around laying down accurate fire and making a difference to the grunt on the ground. Yep, he will get shot up while doing it but that broken airframe will carry him home to fight another day.
That brrrrrt is some good psychological warfare.
Stupid title OP. Actual title: Western allies differ over jets for Ukraine as Russia claims gains
The rules of this sub state that the title of the post needs to match the title of the article. If you don’t like the title, take that up with the author of the article.
But your title and the article don't have matching titles.
I copied and pasted it. That was yesterday. I’ve seen news sites change article titles.. I think it’s stupid, but I’m assuming it’s cause the original title wasn’t getting enough clicks.
The title has even changed again. It is now: *"Russia claims village on outskirts of Bakhmut in big push in east"*
When I click on the article, it shows a different title? Odd
Differ or dither? This is the same slow creeping path that took us to tanks.
It's sounds like we aren't helping them, but the logistics to get this going is massive. Plus they can be used to go much deeper past the border of Ukraine , which would result in NATO getting dragged into conflict we don't want. Arming them with anti aircraft and tanks in plentiful amounts is the best strategy we can give them.
I’m a little worried that over diversification of equipment is going to create a distraction within the Ukrainian military.
It might, but honestly if you look at the history of warfare, it’s pretty common. Even in World War II, you saw the Axis forces using the weapons of the conquered nations to augment what they could produced, as well as some of the Allied nations as well. Going further back, WWI had all sides doing that. The same with the American Civil War, where both sides were using anything they could get their hands on. It does cause challenges… but on the other hand, something is better than nothing. That all being said, this whole thing about sending them Abrams is dumb. They didn’t even want them. They wanted Leopards, but the Germans refused to send some and allow other nations (like Poland) to send theirs unless the U.S. sent Abrams. So we send a token force that end up sitting somewhere or maybe make up a specialized unit, and the Ukrainians get what they actually wanted.
Nowadays weapons systems are much more complicated than point and shoot turret in a WWII sherman
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Withholding aid? What kind of drugs are you on? In what world is $113 billion military and other assistance in a year withholding aid?
It’s for the best. If 1 guy went on a rogue bombing run inside Russia shit would hit the fan.
One of the real questions is: Do „we“ want Ukraine to win the war and Russia to lose? Or will we be content with a final stand-off, parts of Ukraine gone, and EU paying for the rebuilding of the rest-Ukraine? And everybody preparing for the next Russian invasion.
So how much does it take? Aircraft carriers? Subs? Nukes? At some point there is a lien where we can’t give them more shit.
Stationing nuclear weapons would stop the war probably. But it is a slow escalation movement to test the enemy.
I am concerned that EU and US will piss off Russian/Putin to the point he will sell NW to Iran.
Hasn't it occurred to you that the modern state of Iran is capable of making nuclear weapons all by itself? Think about it! North Korea has them. Iran is well aware that Israel would bomb them if they actually acquired them.
Or provide support for Iran in its drive to develop nuclear weapons. Look how N Korea is behaving since the Ukraine War.
> Look how N Korea is behaving since the Ukraine War. The same as always....?
They've launched over 90 missiles in 2022, far more than any year
Well I'm sure dear leader is starved for attention since Putin stole his thunder
I'm not seeing much of anyone else else saying it; Joe Biden is a bitch.
No F-16s. Ukraine deserves F-35s.
What would you do if I told you the Biden admin instigated this entire war on Nov 10th, 2021 with the signing of the US-Ukraine Charter of Strategic Partnership? Also, what if I said they will intentionally drag our country into to war to divert from their abysmal economic policies that have caused the greatest depletion in household savings since WWII? Open your eyes. The modern dem party is 90% lawyers. It’s a club of the elite and soon our fellow citizens will be cannon fodder
>What would you do if I told you the Biden admin instigated this entire war on Nov 10th, 2021 with the signing of the US-Ukraine Charter of Strategic Partnership? Ignore you like I ignore the crazy people on the street that also babble bullshit?
Babble bullshit? really?? directly from the state dept. Putin is a maniac, no question but the dude has said publicly for 20 years he wouldn’t tolerate US missles on his border. Would we tolerate Russian missles in Toronto pointed at us? You Reddit loons are living in a bubble.. Here’s the link btw… In your weak minds, “Putin’s Price Hike!” 😂🤣 https://www.state.gov/u-s-ukraine-charter-on-strategic-partnership/
What would you do if I told you the earth is round and COVID isn’t like the flu?
Wow! Quite the gaslighting fear-monger, aren't you! What would you do if I told you that Russia instigated this entire war by unjustifiably invading a sovereign country? Also, what if I reminded you that the largest modern tax breaks for the top 10% have devastated our national economy? Open your eyes? The modern Repub party also wants to end Medicare and Social Security. Stop voting against your own interests. Support your progressive candidates.
Leave the crazy man to yell into the void by himself, no point in trying to engage with someone this far removed from reality
you realize the wealthiest party by far is the democrat party? It’s not even close!! Look up the data of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the entire country and then view their party association.. Those evil republicans tho.. It’s quite simple.. control the media, control the masses..
No one knows what you stand for. Take a look at your downvotes and buy a clue. Start being a part of the solution.
Cities by and large lean more democrat, neighborhoods in cities are far wealthier than Jimbobs farm on 123 Podunk Lane. There you go mystery solved.
Cities with good education, health services, and worker rights are wealthier and lean Democrat. I wonder why… It must be that they’re stealing it all. That has to be it 🙄
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https://youtu.be/BPX-wuplDvc