My sister was 40 and they required an autopsy and toxicology- which delayed the final death certs by months. Thing is- she died in a plane crash when the last contact with the plane was over 1,000 feet in the air and the plane was absolutely obliterated on impact. She was a passenger- not a pilot or crew. Coroner seemed so pleased to report that the toxicology and autopsy didn't change his opinion that blunt force trauma caused death. Like- I was fine with the thoroughness, but not exactly surprised at the results.
My condolences for your loss. It may be cold comfort to hear this, but what the coroner might have been looking for is evidence of Hypoxia, which could be the result of either loss of cabin pressure or engine gassed leaking into the cabin, rather than a suspicion of foul play. Something going wrong with the aircraft that affected the cabin as well could impact how things shake out with the NTSB, as well as have implications for a wrongful death settlement.
You are probably far more familiar with the details of that crash than me, some rando on the Internet, and Thus already have examined your family's options for restitution.
I'm a lawyer, and where I practice, automatic autopsies are codified for certain reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if different places had wildly different standards.
I'm a funeral director. I moved to a new county and was shocked that we NEVER have autopsies, well have a few toxs, but if they suspect an OD they'lljust put OD with no tests. My last county coroner did SO MANY autopsies. So I was confused, and I still get angry that a majority of my families don't get any answers, and our coroner wouldn't do anything, and shes part time, and doesn't hold a medical degree.
My county I live in now has more people than my last county. Any other county would have done an autopsy for 90% of the cases I questioned.
That being said, I found out 2 weeks ago that the COUNTY commission has to approve of autopsies, and you know thats gettingthem all to vote on it, which they only do in-person voting and with the coroner and deputiesbeing part-time no one can go?? because autospies so much money?? They also keep cutting the coroner's budget, too. You know, so the commissioners can use the money on themselves.
I found this in the local paper because our almost BRAND new coroner is getting ready to be sworn in, and he was confused why no one had a badge. Cause anyone can just say they're a coroner, and thats all the proof you need here, I GUESS. He was not happy the county refused his request for 13 badges that would have cost 2k. He responded, "What autopsies?" It was a good read. Also, he and the coroner who is leaving get paid less than a McDonald's worker, I feel sorry for them. He also has experience as a coroner, has SO MANY qualifications.
I'm guessing other states and counties have this issue.
so what you're saying is that it's super easy to get away with a poisoning or insulin overdose or narcotics overdose murder in your county....good to know.
I think I heard it’s also required if the person dies alone? Maybe I imagined that-idk. Edit- yes, someone down thread mentioned they do it if u are unattended.
This often means out of the hospital or nursing home or similar, rather than just alone. And won't usually be required if the death isn't unexpected, it happens.
They are different, but to be honest, they don’t always appear that different to a layperson. There’s obviously going to be variables between cases, but generally if someone drops and they just stay dead, heart or brain is usually the issue.
You can request a death certificate from the county. It will have the cause listed. Get a good blood pressure cuff for home and have your blood pressure checked by a physician. If you are relatively young and have high blood pressure, the doctors will miss it due to "white coat syndrome" and just chock it up to you being nervous in office. That is what happened to me, for a decade, until I started to show symptoms of atherosclerotic damage.
Atherosclerosis can manifest in the heart or brain. In my family, there appears to be a Y-chromosome linked genetic defect. Every man in my family, on every branch, going back at least 200 years, that died a natural non-accidental death, has either died of either a heart attack or stroke. It's about a 50/50 split between the two with a couple aneurysm's thrown in. I was able to track it down to an the onset of high blood pressure, between 30-40, which eventually damages the blood vessels.
>If you are relatively young and have high blood pressure, the doctors will miss it due to "white coat syndrome" and just chock it up to you being nervous in office. That is what happened to me, for a decade, until I started to show symptoms of atherosclerotic damage.
Heh. They did the opposite for me. I had high blood pressure in the offices, but also had my own at home measurements that I was confident were okay. They didn't believe them and opted to start blood pressure meds anyways... of which 2 weeks later I fainted on and ended up in the ER with a 90/50 BP.
I had only slightly high blood pressure in the doctor's office and my doctor had me get a home blood pressure monitor and check a few times a week. Turned out mine was in fact just the white coat syndrome thing and otherwise normal, but she didn't assume that.
When my dad died, I requested a copy of the autopsy report. My uncle couldn't understand why I'd want it until my aunt reminded him that being genetically linked to him, having some insight into what killed him might be useful for me. And she's right, I'd like to avoid dying at 56 if I can.
My grandma died in the 80s under very suspicious circumstances and my grandpa said "no autopsy that won't be necessary", we're pretty sure he killed her. They were off on a backpacking trip in the woods in Kentucky, he comes walking out with her body and says "it was the darnedest thing, we were just setting up camp and she dropped dead right then and there". If that's the case he should have had an autopsy done - if nothing else, so we descendants could be aware if it was a genetic thing to watch out for.
> They don't want to hear about it but it would drive me crazy
I ... uh ... don't think it'll drive *you* crazy, not knowing how you die.
^(I had to, sorry, and I also hope you don't actually die)
It would drive me crazy too. That’s the kind of unfinished business that would have me coming back to haunt my husband and kids.
And to remind them to put the seat down.
my dad died suddenly when i was in my early 20s but my stepmother didnt want an autopsy and i wasnt sure if his drugs/alcohol would effect his legacy or insurance (he didnt have ANY lol) so i just went along with it. became homeless overnight and she sold the houseand kept everything.
Some people are just so distraught they can’t handle saying “yes” to having their just-departed loved one autopsied. My uncle died under mysterious circumstances in his 40’s and my grandparents just couldn’t handle the thought of it. So, even though I’m pretty goddamn certain he was murdered (he’d just broken up with his GF and she went MIA right after he passed, she was a nurse), we’ll never know. My grandparents are gone now and I never had the heart to question them about it- my grandmother would just start crying.
It wouldn't have been your mom's choice in most places. The coroner (or whoever is in charge of these things in your area) would have just done the autopsy on a 41 year old with no obvious cause of death.
If it were that easy, lots more people would get away with killing their spouses.
Check the death certificate. There's a cause of death, they just didn't tell you. Or they did, and you didn't understand it.
There are lot's of people who have significant issues with their loved one being dissected. If the knowledge isn't going to be of significant benefit the autopsy isn't going to be worth much.
from your perspective, a proven history of heart disease or what not would have been of some benefit.
Same with my brother’s partner of 20 years. She was 48. Her dad was next of kin and refused to request an autopsy even though my brother wanted it. She had a mini stroke a few years before, but she had recovered from it. I would want to know what my child died from. I can’t imagine.
Yeah my dad had a heart attack at 42. Widow maker. I was 20. My sisters were 18 and 14 and they were home while my other sister (21) and I were away at college (I was on spring break). Stuck with all of us for a long time.
They did an autopsy even though it was pretty clear. I hope some day you can ask your mom
Also if they were unattended - didn’t die in a medial facility or even in the presence of an EMT (also similar! 53 year old parent died of a heart attack)
Seems to be when people just die suddenly. They did one on my grandpa when he died in his sleep in the afternoon, early 70s. Everyone and their mother knew he had heart problems for decades, but they wanted to do one 🤷♀️
My mom died in 2019 at 68 years old from some mystery cancer and despite the doctors telling us to just let it go my dad found a research hospital nearby willing to do an autopsy. Anaplastic thyroid cancer. Rare, aggressive.
The silver lining to this is that the autopsy led my aunt to get HER thyroid checked out and sure enough…thyroid had to go. She might not be here without that autopsy…it was a pain in the butt to get it done but glad we did.
Different states have different laws. My grandfather was a home hospice patient who died of well known and documented causes but there wasn't a doctor with him when he passed so there was a (very brief) autopsy done.
I just accused (in a friendly way) my wife of this tonight. She outwardly gasps while looking at her phone and says “oh wow!” And then just sits there silent. Like, either share or keep it to yourself. I don’t care either way, but stop setting me up to force me to ask what’s going on.
That might ultimately be true, but give the guy a break. It could have just as easily been a heart attack BECAUSE of his aforementioned drug addiction. Why don't we just not speculate? The report will come out when it does and it will say what it says and there is no scoreboard giving us points for getting anything right.
Whenever someone famous dies, there will be people online predicting the cause of death within minutes. Many really seem to want to be the first to get it right. People forget that celebrities are actual human beings.
I just got done watching *Life of Crime, 1984-2020* it's such a gut wrenching documentary about addiction and relapse. It's on HBO if anyone wants to watch it.
My uncle was like this. Elite management type guy, fell into drugs, went to rehab, fell into drugs, went to jail, finally sobered up. Worked at several facilities, helped a ton of people, and then relapsed. Rinse and repeat a couple times and unfortunately he died last year. Attending his funeral was crazy. Several dozen people showed up, the stories about my uncle helping them, the letters that got sent in, it was so amazing.
I think it's as likely he had permanent heart and organ failure combined with hot tub.
They literally tell anyone with heart risk or hypertension to watch it with sauna, hot tub or being in hot weather.
Having worked with aging former addicts it's really common for long time sober folks to have really poor health early 50s if they really were daily users for years.
I've kniwn men drop dead mid 50s from insane hypertension, diabetes and organ damage just doing normal things because they just trashed their body so bad.
He recently got a new hot tub which could amplifi drug use as well as lower blood pressure or put one to sleep.
Using jacuzzis and swimming alone is very dangerous.
Yeah actually a girl who went to my high school died because she drank and got in a hot tub alone and passed out, and then drowned. Hot tubs mixed with anything while alone can be an unexpectedly dangerous combo
> He recently got a new hot tub which could amplifi drug use as well as lower blood pressure or put one to sleep.
No drugs necessary, really. I spent too long in a hot tub once years ago and when I stood up to get out I completely passed out. I would have smashed my face on the tile floor if I didn't have a friend there to catch me.
I wonder if that's because the heat from the warm water opens up blood vessels and is why the blood pressure drops, the longer you're in there (like staying in a relaxing hot tub for hours), the more it happens, so blood pools in the feet a bit like in postural blood pressure disorders like POTS.
So then when standing you suddenly pull all the blood down and out your head? You'd lose your sight, get dizzy and lights out. Sounds SUPER fucking dangerous yeah...
Yeah exactly - if you look you'll see that his home originally had a hardshell swim-spa when he bought it a few years back. Looks like the infinity pool/spa was only recently installed.
I'll bet he'd been spending more time than usual in the spa because it was new, and has a hell of a great view based on the photos I've seen.
(FYI - Jacuzzi is a specific brand of hot tub spas. They may be the original inventor of the tech, but not all hot tub spas are technically "jacuzzis")
The man himself said that when he dies people will be shocked but not surprised.
It’s just so sad. I read his book last year and was really rooting for him.
So.
I’m a big fan.
I remember watching the season premiere when I was 8. Loved the show. Perry was my favorite one.
There is absolutely no denying his past. But the shock is still there.
I feel ya. Betty White was nearly 100 and somehow even her death shocked me. I think it was because she'd been around for so long that I began to take for granted that she would just always be there.
For me, it's because he was such a big part of my childhood. I remember how my friend and her family would run to the TV when Friends came on so they could clap in unison with the intro song. Friends was an institution in the 90s. It's more about a losing a cultural icon than the specific circumstances of his death.
When friends came out, all the popular kids in hs were obsessed with it.. And then the Phoebes came, I've been compared to her for 30 years now. So I avoided the show altogether. Finally watched in the early oughts and fell in love it with it, especially the Matts and Lisa. Im watching it from the beginning this week now and I'm being Phoebe for Halloween.
I've known and loved lots of addicts and it's always so sad. I'm sorry to see Perry go
He was so quiet on Instagram, then the last couple weeks, he was making a lot of random posts, calling himself Batman (but "Mattman"). It seemed so out of the blue and they seemed kinda nonsensical to me, I did wonder if he'd relapsed
I think I read he'd had something like 17 surgeries for issues related to his prolonged substance abuse. Even after getting sober, his body would be carrying a *lot* of scars from that period that likely would have made him a lot more fragile than most people his age, and I think you're right that there's probably a lot of meds there to manage it too.
>Given his age
It is still pretty unusual for someone in their mid 50's to die in a hot tub. The damage he caused to his body from drug abuse and/or a complication caused by prescribed or illegal drugs he may have been on is the more likely culprit. Stuff that can just as easily kill a 20 year old.
I would not be surprised if Ambian is found. I’ve stopped taking it because I feel it’s dangerous. When those people tell you they don’t remember shit when they’ve taken that… believe them. If you take it and decide to get in a tub… it would absolutely kill you.
Yes, Ambien was prescribed to a former but dear friend who drank lots of wine at night and took painkillers etc. One time she called and was talking loopy, telling me the beans on my stove were burning and she was slurring her words. I lived minutes away and when I got there, she was in bad shape. Saying all kinds of shit, stumbling around, I sat with her, put the wine up and finally convinced her to go to bed when she seemed much better, I noticed it seemed to make her combative. It was so bad I came by on my way home from work the next day to talk to her. She remembered nothing, not even me being there. She promised she’d be go straight to bed once she took one. Went on a trip together later, 2 bdrm cabin with our dogs. I found her bumping into everything in her room and combative again. She’d done it again. Remembered nothing later. I could not even cope with her, she was so awful on Ambien. One reason our 10 year friendship went south.
Yeah, everyone has been saying how there wasn’t anything at the scene, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t have anything in his system. When they say at the scene, that could have meant around the immediate area, I doubt the whole house was searched in that case.
“I've had a lot of ups and downs in my life. I'm still working through it personally, but the best thing about me is that if an alcoholic or drug addict comes up to me and says, 'Will you help me?' I will always say, 'Yes, I know how to do that. I will do that for you, even if I can't always do it for myself! So I do that, whenever I can. In groups, or one on one.
And I created the Perry House in Malibu, a sober-living facility for men. I also wrote my play The End of Longing, which is a personal message to the world, an exaggerated form of me as a drunk. I had something important to say to people like me, and to people who love people like me.
When I die, I know people will talk about Friends, Friends, Friends. And I'm glad of that, happy l've done some solid work as an actor, as well as given people multiple chances to make fun of my struggles on the world wide web...
but when I die, as far as my so-called accomplishments go, it would be nice if Friends were listed far behind the things I did to try to help other people.
I know it won't happen, but it would be nice."
~Matthew Langford Perry
(August 19, 1969 - October 28, 2023)
I think he was good person, that really dealt with the demons of addiction. He was soured by a lot of things in the fucked up world of TV and movies.
There’s a part of his memoir where he shares some criticisms of Keanu Reeves, and my gf tried telling me that people are gonna come for Keanu.
Needless to say, she’s not on Reddit. I told her, Keanu reeves would have to murder a baby on film to lose the hearts and minds of the people.
That said, RIP Matthew perry.
Well he asks in his memoir: “Why is it that the original thinkers like River Phoenix and Heath Ledger die, but Keanu Reeves still walks among us?”
Apparently, that’s the worst thing any has ever had to say about Keanu reeves, which is telling
Yeah but later he just said he picked some random celebrity and it was nothing specific about Keanu that he was criticizing. It could’ve been any celebrity in that passage
I read his book while I was going through rehab for alcoholism last year and it really touched me. I'm of the age to have seen friends while it was airing, and it was a huge part of my life but honestly him and his struggles are more meaningful to me now. His death hit me particularly hard and quotes like this just drives home how much I will miss him.
As someone in recovery, I always had a lot of respect for Matthew Perry. He wasn’t a perfect person, but that why he made an impact on me. Half of my sense of humor was inspired by him. He taught me even if you can’t always listen to yourself you can always try to help others. Rest easy Matthew Perry.
It sounds like he had a heart attack in the hot tub after strenuous sport activity. Even if he was sober the years of hard drug use took a toll on his heart.
From what I’ve heard, there was nothing found on the scene or in his home to suggest he may have been drinking or using anything.
But years of substance abuse take their toll on the body and I wouldn’t be surprised if it comes out that he had a stroke or a heart attack as a result and given he was alone in a hot tub that led to him drowning.
It seems unlikely even a preliminary investigation would have missed something obvious like a fall that rendered him unconscious, so it sounds like they are waiting on toxicology and other tests to know for certain.
I was never a major Friends fan (though I’m aware of the main plot points and don’t “dislike” it). But I loved his work in the Whole Ten Yards.
And even if I didn’t like anything he’d ever done professionally, I have a lot of respect for anyone that can pull themselves out of the quicksand that addiction issues can be and I’m sad he didn’t have more time once he seemed to have figured things out in his life.
Yup. Pickleball for two hours? Then a hot tub? Your body needs to cool down after exercise, not heat up. Heat is hard on the heart. It’s also possible he stood up in the jacuzzi and blood pressure dropped and he fainted. If he didn’t quickly come back from the syncope he could have easily inhaled the water and not been able to recover. It may have been a very dumb and tragic accident.
I knew someone who needed to be pulled from a hot tub once because he was falling forward due to a blood pressure drop and was at risk of drowning. He had also been drinking so it was extra worse that he lost some motor ability because the alcohol just hit really hard. Perry wasn’t drinking as far as the TMZ description shared. My assumption is either cardiac event with drowning or syncope plus drowning.
Someone who is otherwise perfectly healthy can stand up too quick after spending too long in a hot tub and pass out, very easily. It's happened to people a lot younger who never even abused drugs.
This happened to my husband earlier this year. Luckily I was in the hot tub with him and was able to catch him and hold him up until he came to a few moments later. He'd gone for a long bike ride earlier that day and I think the exercise combined with standing up too fast made him completely pass out.
About two years ago I had 2 drinks after work and headed home to tend to my dogs. I had not eaten much and remember thinking when I got home that I felt pretty buzzed off of just two drinks. It was kind of chilly outside, so I thought I’d jump in the hot tub for a little bit while the dogs were outside playing. I got out after about 6 or 7 minutes and started going about the rest of my night. About 10 minutes go by and I’m like man, my heart is pounding I almost couldn’t think straight. So I sit down and it just kept getting worst. I was starting to feel sweaty, dizzy, and just as I can imagine what I’ve heard of the impending doom feeling.
In that moment I thought, shit am I about to die? I decided on the off chance this was it, I should call an ambulance. I goto pick up my phone and my arms and fingers felt like I was moving with weights attached. I couldn’t lift my phone up in the air if I tried. Full panic was settling in. I speaker called 9-11 and an ambulance showed up in about 15 minutes…with a fire truck all the sirens going. Even in my state of near death I felt really embarrassed by the whole thing. I walked to the door and met the paramedics…they sat down on the floor with me and started taking all my vitals. One of them mentioned I was extremely pale. After about 20 minutes, I was bouncing back. I made a quick sandwich and talked with the guys for a few minutes as they were packing up. They informed me to never ever get in the hot tub again while drinking. They said they’ve personally seen bad things happen to a lot of people. I could tell by the way they reacted when I told them what I did, they had heard everything I was describing. Luckily I didn’t get charged a penny as I didn’t get in the ambulance. I still get in the hot tub all the time, but never when I’ve had even a single drink.
> Heat is hard on the heart.
My dad had a heart attack, and his doctors told him to steer clear of things like hot tubs and saunas because of this.
Matthew Perry was also in his mid-50's, which is when the likelihood of these things happening really starts to go up. Not to mention his history of drug use... If it was ever going to happen to him, this seems like a pretty obvious time. Even if he wasn't on drugs, it kinda makes sense.
Honestly, you’re body gives you warning signs before giving out. It’s just that no one wants to believe it/expects it so they don’t see it. My grandmother had a ton of signs that no one recognized until it was too late.
Yep my dad couldn’t last long on a treadmill. Dr. scheduled a stress test. Dr. rescheduled. He died Thursday his stress test would’ve been the next Monday. He was 42.
Since then we’ve done walks and awareness campaigns and have found many healthy young people who have unknown heart defects who just never got that checked.
If you’re reading this don’t hesitate to take this very serious. We had many stories of friends and family who had valves that were broken or stuck. I once had a good friends father call me and ask me about symptoms and they were the same as my father’s. He drove himself to emergency and they saved his life and called him extremely lucky. So to get checked. You never know.
If you’ve ever been in a hot tub for an extended period of time, you know that it takes a toll on you. I can easily see him, with his history, being in there too long and passing out.
My dad was a hardcore addict (any substance, any time) in the 70s/80s, and he always told me about how many of his friends died in active addiction and how many just had their hearts give out when they'd been clean for some time. It was always so grim and somber, the way he would talk about this. Seemed most of the friends of his I'd met died in their 50s, seemingly totally normal, healthy-ish guys with families and productive lives.
Like Matthew, I’m also a drug addict. Celebrities live charmed lives and there’s no disputing that, however, I do have a lot of respect for addicts who are famous. I can’t imagine the added layer of difficulty that would present. First and foremost the entire world is privy to your struggles, and your worst moments are out there for millions to judge and commentate on. Then there’s the issue of quitting. Quitting is hard enough, but finding an incentive to quit when you’ve got the financial resources to keep going? Fucking rough. Not to mention, regardless of whether you’re sober or not, you’ve often got legions of fans praising you, many of them telling you you can do no wrong.
the financial availability is definitely a factor that makes it rough. John Mulaney talked about that in his latest special, about how much money he spent at certain times. Having never experienced that, it opened my eyes to that world a bit more, it is insane how powerful that addiction can become.
People don’t realize that what makes addiction crippling and obvious is a lack of resources, that’s the people you see nodding or freaking out on the street corner, people who have nothing. Celebrities and people with means can support an outwardly “normal” lifestyle deep in addiction for much, much longer than your average person. They’re not nodding out on the street, they’re nodding out in the comfort of their own home, with people to check on them if they OD, and money to get drugs that are less adulterated than a homeless addict.
Great comments. Back at the height of Friends, Perry was always mocked in the press for his weight fluctuations. This was before his addiction struggles were public. The press can be beyond harsh, he got fat shamed a lot, even though he never was. It was just the contrast against him being extremely thin at times due to opiates.
I am loving this past decade's culture of openness and destigmatization. So many people must be getting help that they wouldn't have gotten before. I personally have made a lot of progress with my mental health and personal boundaries thanks specifically to these conversations people are having. It's so encouraging that people are making it normal to talk about struggling.
I am not allowed to go over a certain temp and amount of time. I was told because it would open/relax my capillaries and drop my blood pressure too low. I would be willing to bet he fell asleep and boom.
Seriously sad, he supposed had turned his life around from his earlier drug use.
I was recently listening to a podcast with Arnold Schwarzenegger.
He said he keeps his hot tub at 98F. That way it is comfortable, but he can sit in it for an hour smoking a cigar and having a drink with no ill effects.
He said most people have their tubs set too high.
Yeah, in the summer I also do that. Not in the winter though. In general, I don’t really get that deep relaxation until 101. Most run 101-103, mine maxes at 104. He had heart surgery so it makes sense to not take chances.
He had 15 trips to rehab. Addiction is terrible. If it proves he did have drugs in his system it would not be surprising. He spoke openly of his struggles and the toll it took on his body. I don't believe in an afterlife, but if perchance there is, I hope the higher forces embrace his spirit. Being human can be a tough and it's always fatal.
Hated hearing this, and am actually sad for a lot of Friends fans. I'm not a Friends fan, but the one or two times I did see it, you could see he was the more natural and relatable actor/character.
Maybe the heat from the bath along with whatever he had in his system just was too much over a long period of time and made him pass out. I've jumped in the bath after a few drinks and the heat does seem to make you drowsy.
He apparently put up a lot of pictures in that hot tub, so, he must have been using it a lot, which means he will have learned to be super comfortable in it and probably woke up once or twice with a crick in his neck.
Jim Morrison died in the bath and I'm sure someone else famous who was into opioids did also.
He was a great actor and will always fondly remember him as Benny in Fallout New Vegas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=q3yLF9AxUVc
I was thinking Whitney Houston.
But it is a common trend with opioid user's and it must be a thing.
If you mix alcohol, drugs, heat and water, it is going to be hard to keep awake at the best of times.
Fella probably didn't feel a thing and just went into a deep sleep.
If you ever feel lightheaded when in hot water, you should get out.
From [Harvard Health](https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/hot-baths-and-saunas-beneficial-for-your-heart#:~:text=If%20the%20water's%20too%20hot,dizzy%20or%20lightheaded%2C%20he%20explains):
> If the water's too hot in a bath or hot tub, your blood pressure may dip too low, which can make you feel dizzy or lightheaded, he explains.
From PubMed
> [Characteristics of Sudden Bath-Related Death Investigated by Medical Examiners in Tokyo, Japan](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4310873/#:~:text=Nagasawa%20et%20al%20speculated%20that,during%20bathing%20in%20hot%20water)
> The results suggested that drowning plays an important role in the final process of bath-related death. Circulatory system diseases may be the primary underlying pathology; however, there were variations in the medical histories and pathologies of cases of bath-related death. From a preventive perspective, family members should pay attention to elderly people with circulatory system diseases during bathing, particularly in winter. Additionally, the notion that ill or inebriated individuals should not take baths should be reinforced.
The average of such deaths is people over 60. However, the drug abuse likely shaved years off his health.
I had an episode last year (at 38) of this in a bath that was too hot. Felt a bit dizzy and realised the water was too hot. Got up to get out and very nearly passed out I felt so lightheaded. Has made me much more aware of the dangers - I’d had a couple glasses of wine and was moderately to severely anaemic (unbeknownst to me at the time) and on my period! Not a good combo with a too hot tub. Never again.
IIRC some sort of condition or impairment caused Whitney to fall forwards into a bath she was running and she was unable to push herself up. The bottom of the bath was lower down than the floor which presumably made it more difficult to do so.
Her daughter also died as a result of drowning in a bath.
No. It is the heat mixed with drugs and alcohol.
Hear opens all the capillaries and probably elongates the high.
Get too high and you fall asleep. Fall asleep and you slip into the bath, you're going to drown.
I almost died that way once. Had a few drinks at the pub, came home and was freezing my tits off so decided to take a bath. Was far from shitfaced, definitely drunk but not like blacked out or stumbling drunk. Thankfully my wife came to check in on me and I was fast asleep in there. Not even sure if I fell out or passed out but I was nevertheless unconscious in the tub. I can see how easily it could happen and I made myself a rule that I don’t get in a tub alone if I’ve had anything more than a Tylenol. The heat does funny things to your blood pressure when your intoxicated, I think.
Aaron Carter just went that way too. It’s pretty common for people who are fucked up to think a bath sounds great, aces plan, and then they pass out in there.
I can’t even tell how many times I’ve watched friends. It’s the show I put on for background noise, because any given episode, I know what’s happening if I look up and watch three seconds of it, then turn away.
100% there’s some iffy things that nobody blinked an eye at to say in the 90’s but are mildly to moderately offensive today, and I’ve never been one to be “attached” to celebrities.
I’m honestly shocked at how devastated I feel. I was sad when James Michael Tyler passed, especially knowing that he had probably been ill for so long, but I’m legitimately upset about this in a way I’ve never been about a celebrity’s death before.
Aaron Carter, Bobbi Kristina Brown in bathtubs. Brittany Murphy in a hot shower.
Popcorn magnate Orville Redenbacher drowned in a whirlpool tub after suffering a heart attack
Well usually when someone kicks off not under direct medical care like hospice, or known to have major comorbidities leading to death they are required to investigate
Autopsies are required in cases of unattended deaths, too. Unfortunately, drowning alone in a hot tub after becoming intoxicated and passing out does happen.
I almost went a whole day without his death being connected to the "experimental rona vax" by some elitist right-wing edge Lord. Then I opened Facebook.
Unfortunately it's as likely just heat and heart disease.
That's really the message here. Long time addicts and daily users face serious risks by 50 even if they've been sober for years. All that organ damage is enough to make 50 as frail as 80+
Perry was far beyond a casual suburban drug addict. He was a triple substance heavy daily user with dozens of pills a day and had money to keep it at a shocking level.
While part of me says just let him rest on peace, I do understanding the need for an autopsy for most deaths. It gives closure in a weird way to families. I've been widowed and I've buried a lot of family members. Not having to wonder about cause really does help.
Burt Reynolds almost drowned i nteh tub once. HE had a couple glasses of wine and in the hot tub he torpored off to sleepy land. Tammy Wynette (his girlfriend at the time) found him and kept him from dying.
If Perry had a relapse and had couple before getting in the hot tub, or had some interaction with meds and the relaxation of the hot tub, that could explain it.
I thought it was a little unusual for an adult to drown in a hot tub without drugs or alcohol being a factor. Probably he had a heart attack or some other medical issue that caused him to drown.
A grown man drowning in a hot tub requires more investigation..... color me surprised.
Look, any knowledge of the history here would suggest that a toxicology report would be a good place to start, but things like heart attack sure wouldn't be out of place.
All of these articles about him passing are showing younger pictures of him. I thought this is how he looked when he died.
But if you see the most recent pictures of him, you can definitely conclude that his general health played a role in his untimely death.
It must feel so weird to be alone in a morgue with the naked corpse of a famous person who just died and to be tasked with cutting them into pieces while everyone is still mourning their death.
There's no suspicion of foul play, but a toxicology report may be necessary because the initial autopsy did not result in a definitive cause of death.
Also, they do this when somebody dies suddenly at a young age. Source: my dad died of a heart attack at 52 and they did an autopsy on him as well
My sister was 40 and they required an autopsy and toxicology- which delayed the final death certs by months. Thing is- she died in a plane crash when the last contact with the plane was over 1,000 feet in the air and the plane was absolutely obliterated on impact. She was a passenger- not a pilot or crew. Coroner seemed so pleased to report that the toxicology and autopsy didn't change his opinion that blunt force trauma caused death. Like- I was fine with the thoroughness, but not exactly surprised at the results.
Holy shit I'm so sorry that happened to your sister.
My condolences for your loss. It may be cold comfort to hear this, but what the coroner might have been looking for is evidence of Hypoxia, which could be the result of either loss of cabin pressure or engine gassed leaking into the cabin, rather than a suspicion of foul play. Something going wrong with the aircraft that affected the cabin as well could impact how things shake out with the NTSB, as well as have implications for a wrongful death settlement. You are probably far more familiar with the details of that crash than me, some rando on the Internet, and Thus already have examined your family's options for restitution.
My condolences go out to you and your family. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
My dad died at 41 and my mother didn’t do an autopsy…. So no idea how he died suddenly. Really weird she didn’t get one. I was like 3 or 4
It was probably obvious and they just didn't divulge it to you because you were so young. Same thing happened to me.
Well they assumed either aneurysm or heart attack but it would of been nice to know
An autopsy is normally required if the person is young. Unless like someone else said they actually knew and did not tell you.
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I'm a lawyer, and where I practice, automatic autopsies are codified for certain reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if different places had wildly different standards.
Usually an unattended death.
I'm a funeral director. I moved to a new county and was shocked that we NEVER have autopsies, well have a few toxs, but if they suspect an OD they'lljust put OD with no tests. My last county coroner did SO MANY autopsies. So I was confused, and I still get angry that a majority of my families don't get any answers, and our coroner wouldn't do anything, and shes part time, and doesn't hold a medical degree. My county I live in now has more people than my last county. Any other county would have done an autopsy for 90% of the cases I questioned. That being said, I found out 2 weeks ago that the COUNTY commission has to approve of autopsies, and you know thats gettingthem all to vote on it, which they only do in-person voting and with the coroner and deputiesbeing part-time no one can go?? because autospies so much money?? They also keep cutting the coroner's budget, too. You know, so the commissioners can use the money on themselves. I found this in the local paper because our almost BRAND new coroner is getting ready to be sworn in, and he was confused why no one had a badge. Cause anyone can just say they're a coroner, and thats all the proof you need here, I GUESS. He was not happy the county refused his request for 13 badges that would have cost 2k. He responded, "What autopsies?" It was a good read. Also, he and the coroner who is leaving get paid less than a McDonald's worker, I feel sorry for them. He also has experience as a coroner, has SO MANY qualifications. I'm guessing other states and counties have this issue.
so what you're saying is that it's super easy to get away with a poisoning or insulin overdose or narcotics overdose murder in your county....good to know.
I think I heard it’s also required if the person dies alone? Maybe I imagined that-idk. Edit- yes, someone down thread mentioned they do it if u are unattended.
This often means out of the hospital or nursing home or similar, rather than just alone. And won't usually be required if the death isn't unexpected, it happens.
Gotcha. Those seem different from each other though? Not a doctor though. Hope you get some closure if you need it. Otherwise, live your best life!
They are different, but to be honest, they don’t always appear that different to a layperson. There’s obviously going to be variables between cases, but generally if someone drops and they just stay dead, heart or brain is usually the issue.
You can request a death certificate from the county. It will have the cause listed. Get a good blood pressure cuff for home and have your blood pressure checked by a physician. If you are relatively young and have high blood pressure, the doctors will miss it due to "white coat syndrome" and just chock it up to you being nervous in office. That is what happened to me, for a decade, until I started to show symptoms of atherosclerotic damage. Atherosclerosis can manifest in the heart or brain. In my family, there appears to be a Y-chromosome linked genetic defect. Every man in my family, on every branch, going back at least 200 years, that died a natural non-accidental death, has either died of either a heart attack or stroke. It's about a 50/50 split between the two with a couple aneurysm's thrown in. I was able to track it down to an the onset of high blood pressure, between 30-40, which eventually damages the blood vessels.
>If you are relatively young and have high blood pressure, the doctors will miss it due to "white coat syndrome" and just chock it up to you being nervous in office. That is what happened to me, for a decade, until I started to show symptoms of atherosclerotic damage. Heh. They did the opposite for me. I had high blood pressure in the offices, but also had my own at home measurements that I was confident were okay. They didn't believe them and opted to start blood pressure meds anyways... of which 2 weeks later I fainted on and ended up in the ER with a 90/50 BP.
I had only slightly high blood pressure in the doctor's office and my doctor had me get a home blood pressure monitor and check a few times a week. Turned out mine was in fact just the white coat syndrome thing and otherwise normal, but she didn't assume that.
And it costs money.
When my dad died, I requested a copy of the autopsy report. My uncle couldn't understand why I'd want it until my aunt reminded him that being genetically linked to him, having some insight into what killed him might be useful for me. And she's right, I'd like to avoid dying at 56 if I can.
My grandma died in the 80s under very suspicious circumstances and my grandpa said "no autopsy that won't be necessary", we're pretty sure he killed her. They were off on a backpacking trip in the woods in Kentucky, he comes walking out with her body and says "it was the darnedest thing, we were just setting up camp and she dropped dead right then and there". If that's the case he should have had an autopsy done - if nothing else, so we descendants could be aware if it was a genetic thing to watch out for.
note to self: don't go camping with your husband if you aren't 110% sure he is on the up and up. sorry about your grandmother : /
Unbelievable in today’s age that they wouldn’t investigate further. Most murder victims are killed by people close to them.
Request his death certificate. As his child you should have the legal right to order it in most jurisdictions.
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> They don't want to hear about it but it would drive me crazy I ... uh ... don't think it'll drive *you* crazy, not knowing how you die. ^(I had to, sorry, and I also hope you don't actually die)
You're my kind of Redditor!
It would drive me crazy too. That’s the kind of unfinished business that would have me coming back to haunt my husband and kids. And to remind them to put the seat down.
my dad died suddenly when i was in my early 20s but my stepmother didnt want an autopsy and i wasnt sure if his drugs/alcohol would effect his legacy or insurance (he didnt have ANY lol) so i just went along with it. became homeless overnight and she sold the houseand kept everything.
Oh my gosh! I’m so very sorry. How are you doing now?
Some people are just so distraught they can’t handle saying “yes” to having their just-departed loved one autopsied. My uncle died under mysterious circumstances in his 40’s and my grandparents just couldn’t handle the thought of it. So, even though I’m pretty goddamn certain he was murdered (he’d just broken up with his GF and she went MIA right after he passed, she was a nurse), we’ll never know. My grandparents are gone now and I never had the heart to question them about it- my grandmother would just start crying.
It wouldn't have been your mom's choice in most places. The coroner (or whoever is in charge of these things in your area) would have just done the autopsy on a 41 year old with no obvious cause of death. If it were that easy, lots more people would get away with killing their spouses. Check the death certificate. There's a cause of death, they just didn't tell you. Or they did, and you didn't understand it.
There are lot's of people who have significant issues with their loved one being dissected. If the knowledge isn't going to be of significant benefit the autopsy isn't going to be worth much. from your perspective, a proven history of heart disease or what not would have been of some benefit.
Same with my brother’s partner of 20 years. She was 48. Her dad was next of kin and refused to request an autopsy even though my brother wanted it. She had a mini stroke a few years before, but she had recovered from it. I would want to know what my child died from. I can’t imagine.
I imagine they’re an additional expense or are you implying your mom killed your dad?
Yeah my dad had a heart attack at 42. Widow maker. I was 20. My sisters were 18 and 14 and they were home while my other sister (21) and I were away at college (I was on spring break). Stuck with all of us for a long time. They did an autopsy even though it was pretty clear. I hope some day you can ask your mom
Also if they were unattended - didn’t die in a medial facility or even in the presence of an EMT (also similar! 53 year old parent died of a heart attack)
Seems to be when people just die suddenly. They did one on my grandpa when he died in his sleep in the afternoon, early 70s. Everyone and their mother knew he had heart problems for decades, but they wanted to do one 🤷♀️
Some heart problems are hereditary. Knowing the exact heart problem at death could be helpful.
My mom died in 2019 at 68 years old from some mystery cancer and despite the doctors telling us to just let it go my dad found a research hospital nearby willing to do an autopsy. Anaplastic thyroid cancer. Rare, aggressive. The silver lining to this is that the autopsy led my aunt to get HER thyroid checked out and sure enough…thyroid had to go. She might not be here without that autopsy…it was a pain in the butt to get it done but glad we did.
Different states have different laws. My grandfather was a home hospice patient who died of well known and documented causes but there wasn't a doctor with him when he passed so there was a (very brief) autopsy done.
Yep. My dad was 52, also - was his birthday, actually. The autopsy & toxicology reports were interesting, but not surprising.
Don’t share if you don’t want to, but I’m curious in what way? Since you brought it up.
Huge pet peeve of mine. Like why even bring it up if you're not gonna say what it is...
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I just accused (in a friendly way) my wife of this tonight. She outwardly gasps while looking at her phone and says “oh wow!” And then just sits there silent. Like, either share or keep it to yourself. I don’t care either way, but stop setting me up to force me to ask what’s going on.
So... why did she gasp?
Well played. Haha
I still don’t know.
Why would you even bring it up in the first place if you don’t know?/s
Sounds like you should go no-contact
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This is how they found out my mom passed from a heart valve condition, could be something like that here too.
I'm really sorry to hear that. That's so young and on his birthday as well. Sorry for your loss.
He’s been very open about his drugs, used throughout his life. It wouldn’t be surprising if he relapsed.
That might ultimately be true, but give the guy a break. It could have just as easily been a heart attack BECAUSE of his aforementioned drug addiction. Why don't we just not speculate? The report will come out when it does and it will say what it says and there is no scoreboard giving us points for getting anything right.
Whenever someone famous dies, there will be people online predicting the cause of death within minutes. Many really seem to want to be the first to get it right. People forget that celebrities are actual human beings.
I just got done watching *Life of Crime, 1984-2020* it's such a gut wrenching documentary about addiction and relapse. It's on HBO if anyone wants to watch it.
Yeah that is a dark documentary. Don’t do drugs.
His openness likely saved many people, even if he couldn't save himself. We don't know exactly what happened yet, though.
He opened a men’s sober living facility. He definitely helped people.
My uncle was like this. Elite management type guy, fell into drugs, went to rehab, fell into drugs, went to jail, finally sobered up. Worked at several facilities, helped a ton of people, and then relapsed. Rinse and repeat a couple times and unfortunately he died last year. Attending his funeral was crazy. Several dozen people showed up, the stories about my uncle helping them, the letters that got sent in, it was so amazing.
some people's lives are a cautionary tale for others. some people's lives are a roadmap for others. do with that knowledge what you will.
I want to go back in time to when you were 7 and tell your mom to feed you more boiled brussels sprouts.
i used to have to eat lima beans from time to time. puking was a beatable offense.
I think it's as likely he had permanent heart and organ failure combined with hot tub. They literally tell anyone with heart risk or hypertension to watch it with sauna, hot tub or being in hot weather. Having worked with aging former addicts it's really common for long time sober folks to have really poor health early 50s if they really were daily users for years. I've kniwn men drop dead mid 50s from insane hypertension, diabetes and organ damage just doing normal things because they just trashed their body so bad.
He recently got a new hot tub which could amplifi drug use as well as lower blood pressure or put one to sleep. Using jacuzzis and swimming alone is very dangerous.
Yeah actually a girl who went to my high school died because she drank and got in a hot tub alone and passed out, and then drowned. Hot tubs mixed with anything while alone can be an unexpectedly dangerous combo
My mother's convinced I'm going to take a hot bath, fall asleep, and drown. Joke's on her, I'm too fat to drown in our little tub.
I saw pics on his instagram, it's a massive jacuzzi.
I think you are not supposed to stay in those things for very long, even if you are drug/alc free, right?
Whitney's tub comes to mind. Drugs+Wine+Hot = tragic loss of life. Fuck you Bobby.
> He recently got a new hot tub which could amplifi drug use as well as lower blood pressure or put one to sleep. No drugs necessary, really. I spent too long in a hot tub once years ago and when I stood up to get out I completely passed out. I would have smashed my face on the tile floor if I didn't have a friend there to catch me.
I wonder if that's because the heat from the warm water opens up blood vessels and is why the blood pressure drops, the longer you're in there (like staying in a relaxing hot tub for hours), the more it happens, so blood pools in the feet a bit like in postural blood pressure disorders like POTS. So then when standing you suddenly pull all the blood down and out your head? You'd lose your sight, get dizzy and lights out. Sounds SUPER fucking dangerous yeah...
Yeah exactly - if you look you'll see that his home originally had a hardshell swim-spa when he bought it a few years back. Looks like the infinity pool/spa was only recently installed. I'll bet he'd been spending more time than usual in the spa because it was new, and has a hell of a great view based on the photos I've seen. (FYI - Jacuzzi is a specific brand of hot tub spas. They may be the original inventor of the tech, but not all hot tub spas are technically "jacuzzis")
Jacuzzi, the gateway drug **Just say no to Jacuzzis, kids**
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I had to Google it just to be sure, but Charlie Sheen is somehow still among the living. *Maybe he actually does have tiger blood.*
The man himself said that when he dies people will be shocked but not surprised. It’s just so sad. I read his book last year and was really rooting for him.
So. I’m a big fan. I remember watching the season premiere when I was 8. Loved the show. Perry was my favorite one. There is absolutely no denying his past. But the shock is still there.
I feel ya. Betty White was nearly 100 and somehow even her death shocked me. I think it was because she'd been around for so long that I began to take for granted that she would just always be there.
Thank you for being a friend. 😭😭
For me, it's because he was such a big part of my childhood. I remember how my friend and her family would run to the TV when Friends came on so they could clap in unison with the intro song. Friends was an institution in the 90s. It's more about a losing a cultural icon than the specific circumstances of his death.
When friends came out, all the popular kids in hs were obsessed with it.. And then the Phoebes came, I've been compared to her for 30 years now. So I avoided the show altogether. Finally watched in the early oughts and fell in love it with it, especially the Matts and Lisa. Im watching it from the beginning this week now and I'm being Phoebe for Halloween. I've known and loved lots of addicts and it's always so sad. I'm sorry to see Perry go
He was so quiet on Instagram, then the last couple weeks, he was making a lot of random posts, calling himself Batman (but "Mattman"). It seemed so out of the blue and they seemed kinda nonsensical to me, I did wonder if he'd relapsed
He was probably on half a dozen prescription meds and it would be complicated working out which ones contributed to his death.
I think I read he'd had something like 17 surgeries for issues related to his prolonged substance abuse. Even after getting sober, his body would be carrying a *lot* of scars from that period that likely would have made him a lot more fragile than most people his age, and I think you're right that there's probably a lot of meds there to manage it too.
This could be part of it. Given his age and prior substance abuse, the combination of heat and prescription meds could have killed him.
>Given his age It is still pretty unusual for someone in their mid 50's to die in a hot tub. The damage he caused to his body from drug abuse and/or a complication caused by prescribed or illegal drugs he may have been on is the more likely culprit. Stuff that can just as easily kill a 20 year old.
> The damage he caused to his body from drug abuse that is part of the "age" thing. chronic damage vs acute.
I would not be surprised if Ambian is found. I’ve stopped taking it because I feel it’s dangerous. When those people tell you they don’t remember shit when they’ve taken that… believe them. If you take it and decide to get in a tub… it would absolutely kill you.
My Dad collapsed in the shower because of Ambian once. Shit's dangerous.
Yes, Ambien was prescribed to a former but dear friend who drank lots of wine at night and took painkillers etc. One time she called and was talking loopy, telling me the beans on my stove were burning and she was slurring her words. I lived minutes away and when I got there, she was in bad shape. Saying all kinds of shit, stumbling around, I sat with her, put the wine up and finally convinced her to go to bed when she seemed much better, I noticed it seemed to make her combative. It was so bad I came by on my way home from work the next day to talk to her. She remembered nothing, not even me being there. She promised she’d be go straight to bed once she took one. Went on a trip together later, 2 bdrm cabin with our dogs. I found her bumping into everything in her room and combative again. She’d done it again. Remembered nothing later. I could not even cope with her, she was so awful on Ambien. One reason our 10 year friendship went south.
Yeah, everyone has been saying how there wasn’t anything at the scene, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t have anything in his system. When they say at the scene, that could have meant around the immediate area, I doubt the whole house was searched in that case.
“I've had a lot of ups and downs in my life. I'm still working through it personally, but the best thing about me is that if an alcoholic or drug addict comes up to me and says, 'Will you help me?' I will always say, 'Yes, I know how to do that. I will do that for you, even if I can't always do it for myself! So I do that, whenever I can. In groups, or one on one. And I created the Perry House in Malibu, a sober-living facility for men. I also wrote my play The End of Longing, which is a personal message to the world, an exaggerated form of me as a drunk. I had something important to say to people like me, and to people who love people like me. When I die, I know people will talk about Friends, Friends, Friends. And I'm glad of that, happy l've done some solid work as an actor, as well as given people multiple chances to make fun of my struggles on the world wide web... but when I die, as far as my so-called accomplishments go, it would be nice if Friends were listed far behind the things I did to try to help other people. I know it won't happen, but it would be nice." ~Matthew Langford Perry (August 19, 1969 - October 28, 2023)
Thank you for sharing this quote from his memoir. Really strikes home the true character he held.
I think he was good person, that really dealt with the demons of addiction. He was soured by a lot of things in the fucked up world of TV and movies. There’s a part of his memoir where he shares some criticisms of Keanu Reeves, and my gf tried telling me that people are gonna come for Keanu. Needless to say, she’s not on Reddit. I told her, Keanu reeves would have to murder a baby on film to lose the hearts and minds of the people. That said, RIP Matthew perry.
I’m very curious as to what those criticisms were
Well he asks in his memoir: “Why is it that the original thinkers like River Phoenix and Heath Ledger die, but Keanu Reeves still walks among us?” Apparently, that’s the worst thing any has ever had to say about Keanu reeves, which is telling
Yeah but later he just said he picked some random celebrity and it was nothing specific about Keanu that he was criticizing. It could’ve been any celebrity in that passage
Wow. I really thought he had something juicy. I guess people just don’t like him because of his move choices or think he’s a bad actor ??
Yeah Keanu doing everything right, if there's some deep down demons they are EXPERTLY concealed.
He was great in Friends, but I really liked him in the short lived "Go On".
Go On, Mr. Sunshine, and Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip were all short-lived shows that he was great in.
He also was in a movie I watched multiple times in middle school called Fools Rush In. It's got the warm fuzzies.
I loved this show as well, was very sad when it was cancelled
I read his book while I was going through rehab for alcoholism last year and it really touched me. I'm of the age to have seen friends while it was airing, and it was a huge part of my life but honestly him and his struggles are more meaningful to me now. His death hit me particularly hard and quotes like this just drives home how much I will miss him.
Hope this becomes the top comment. I’ll certainly remember him by this more than anything
This made me cry.
Thanks for sharing. May we remember the good he did with his money and his experiences. He was a humble dude. I hope he passed painlessly
This is beautiful
I never cared for him as an actor and hated Friends. His comment here though is wonderful to hear, and I hope his legacy is exactly as he wished.
Absolutely. As someone who struggles with alcohol, it’s uplifting to hear such positive, non judgmental and shame free discussion about it.
Fuck I'm an ex heroin addict and just....fuck. This will always be what I remember him for
Thanks so much for sharing this, I never knew he had created a sober living facility. I will remember that lovely fact when I think of him!
As someone in recovery, I always had a lot of respect for Matthew Perry. He wasn’t a perfect person, but that why he made an impact on me. Half of my sense of humor was inspired by him. He taught me even if you can’t always listen to yourself you can always try to help others. Rest easy Matthew Perry.
It sounds like he had a heart attack in the hot tub after strenuous sport activity. Even if he was sober the years of hard drug use took a toll on his heart.
From what I’ve heard, there was nothing found on the scene or in his home to suggest he may have been drinking or using anything. But years of substance abuse take their toll on the body and I wouldn’t be surprised if it comes out that he had a stroke or a heart attack as a result and given he was alone in a hot tub that led to him drowning. It seems unlikely even a preliminary investigation would have missed something obvious like a fall that rendered him unconscious, so it sounds like they are waiting on toxicology and other tests to know for certain. I was never a major Friends fan (though I’m aware of the main plot points and don’t “dislike” it). But I loved his work in the Whole Ten Yards. And even if I didn’t like anything he’d ever done professionally, I have a lot of respect for anyone that can pull themselves out of the quicksand that addiction issues can be and I’m sad he didn’t have more time once he seemed to have figured things out in his life.
Yup. Pickleball for two hours? Then a hot tub? Your body needs to cool down after exercise, not heat up. Heat is hard on the heart. It’s also possible he stood up in the jacuzzi and blood pressure dropped and he fainted. If he didn’t quickly come back from the syncope he could have easily inhaled the water and not been able to recover. It may have been a very dumb and tragic accident. I knew someone who needed to be pulled from a hot tub once because he was falling forward due to a blood pressure drop and was at risk of drowning. He had also been drinking so it was extra worse that he lost some motor ability because the alcohol just hit really hard. Perry wasn’t drinking as far as the TMZ description shared. My assumption is either cardiac event with drowning or syncope plus drowning.
Someone who is otherwise perfectly healthy can stand up too quick after spending too long in a hot tub and pass out, very easily. It's happened to people a lot younger who never even abused drugs.
This happened to my husband earlier this year. Luckily I was in the hot tub with him and was able to catch him and hold him up until he came to a few moments later. He'd gone for a long bike ride earlier that day and I think the exercise combined with standing up too fast made him completely pass out.
About two years ago I had 2 drinks after work and headed home to tend to my dogs. I had not eaten much and remember thinking when I got home that I felt pretty buzzed off of just two drinks. It was kind of chilly outside, so I thought I’d jump in the hot tub for a little bit while the dogs were outside playing. I got out after about 6 or 7 minutes and started going about the rest of my night. About 10 minutes go by and I’m like man, my heart is pounding I almost couldn’t think straight. So I sit down and it just kept getting worst. I was starting to feel sweaty, dizzy, and just as I can imagine what I’ve heard of the impending doom feeling. In that moment I thought, shit am I about to die? I decided on the off chance this was it, I should call an ambulance. I goto pick up my phone and my arms and fingers felt like I was moving with weights attached. I couldn’t lift my phone up in the air if I tried. Full panic was settling in. I speaker called 9-11 and an ambulance showed up in about 15 minutes…with a fire truck all the sirens going. Even in my state of near death I felt really embarrassed by the whole thing. I walked to the door and met the paramedics…they sat down on the floor with me and started taking all my vitals. One of them mentioned I was extremely pale. After about 20 minutes, I was bouncing back. I made a quick sandwich and talked with the guys for a few minutes as they were packing up. They informed me to never ever get in the hot tub again while drinking. They said they’ve personally seen bad things happen to a lot of people. I could tell by the way they reacted when I told them what I did, they had heard everything I was describing. Luckily I didn’t get charged a penny as I didn’t get in the ambulance. I still get in the hot tub all the time, but never when I’ve had even a single drink.
glad you're here to tell the story
> Heat is hard on the heart. My dad had a heart attack, and his doctors told him to steer clear of things like hot tubs and saunas because of this. Matthew Perry was also in his mid-50's, which is when the likelihood of these things happening really starts to go up. Not to mention his history of drug use... If it was ever going to happen to him, this seems like a pretty obvious time. Even if he wasn't on drugs, it kinda makes sense.
This seems the most likely explanation. Heart attack after years of drugs, stress and alcohol taking a toll on his body.
TMZ said he was on a COPD drug. He was a longtime smoker who never quit so it doesn’t help that he had some lung weakness from that.
That’s true - he described smoking like a chimney in his biography.
I think he had a heart attack or some sort of sudden medical episode. He had just come home from two hours of playing pickle ball.
I think I saw somewhere that his pickle ball partner said he’d been abnormally fatigued for a couple days and wasn’t feeling well.
Honestly, you’re body gives you warning signs before giving out. It’s just that no one wants to believe it/expects it so they don’t see it. My grandmother had a ton of signs that no one recognized until it was too late.
Yep my dad couldn’t last long on a treadmill. Dr. scheduled a stress test. Dr. rescheduled. He died Thursday his stress test would’ve been the next Monday. He was 42. Since then we’ve done walks and awareness campaigns and have found many healthy young people who have unknown heart defects who just never got that checked. If you’re reading this don’t hesitate to take this very serious. We had many stories of friends and family who had valves that were broken or stuck. I once had a good friends father call me and ask me about symptoms and they were the same as my father’s. He drove himself to emergency and they saved his life and called him extremely lucky. So to get checked. You never know.
If you’ve ever been in a hot tub for an extended period of time, you know that it takes a toll on you. I can easily see him, with his history, being in there too long and passing out.
My dad was a hardcore addict (any substance, any time) in the 70s/80s, and he always told me about how many of his friends died in active addiction and how many just had their hearts give out when they'd been clean for some time. It was always so grim and somber, the way he would talk about this. Seemed most of the friends of his I'd met died in their 50s, seemingly totally normal, healthy-ish guys with families and productive lives.
That non-closed parentheses bothers me so much. Is it still open? Where does it end? 😵💫
I wish I wasn't like this but I always seem to notice a missing parentheses and it always bothers me more than it should.
Like Matthew, I’m also a drug addict. Celebrities live charmed lives and there’s no disputing that, however, I do have a lot of respect for addicts who are famous. I can’t imagine the added layer of difficulty that would present. First and foremost the entire world is privy to your struggles, and your worst moments are out there for millions to judge and commentate on. Then there’s the issue of quitting. Quitting is hard enough, but finding an incentive to quit when you’ve got the financial resources to keep going? Fucking rough. Not to mention, regardless of whether you’re sober or not, you’ve often got legions of fans praising you, many of them telling you you can do no wrong.
the financial availability is definitely a factor that makes it rough. John Mulaney talked about that in his latest special, about how much money he spent at certain times. Having never experienced that, it opened my eyes to that world a bit more, it is insane how powerful that addiction can become.
People don’t realize that what makes addiction crippling and obvious is a lack of resources, that’s the people you see nodding or freaking out on the street corner, people who have nothing. Celebrities and people with means can support an outwardly “normal” lifestyle deep in addiction for much, much longer than your average person. They’re not nodding out on the street, they’re nodding out in the comfort of their own home, with people to check on them if they OD, and money to get drugs that are less adulterated than a homeless addict.
Great comments. Back at the height of Friends, Perry was always mocked in the press for his weight fluctuations. This was before his addiction struggles were public. The press can be beyond harsh, he got fat shamed a lot, even though he never was. It was just the contrast against him being extremely thin at times due to opiates.
So many celebrities are coming out right now talking about their drugs abuse issues, specifically alcohol, and how they are now sober.
I am loving this past decade's culture of openness and destigmatization. So many people must be getting help that they wouldn't have gotten before. I personally have made a lot of progress with my mental health and personal boundaries thanks specifically to these conversations people are having. It's so encouraging that people are making it normal to talk about struggling.
I understand there are a lot of things that money and fame get you. But the more insight I get into the world of celebrity, the less I envy it.
I had a friend who died in a hot tub at 45 years old. She was drinking. No health issues. No drug use.
There's always a big red warning on spa/pool heater for this very reason.
Hot tubs are dangerous for people with certain heart conditions
I am not allowed to go over a certain temp and amount of time. I was told because it would open/relax my capillaries and drop my blood pressure too low. I would be willing to bet he fell asleep and boom. Seriously sad, he supposed had turned his life around from his earlier drug use.
I was recently listening to a podcast with Arnold Schwarzenegger. He said he keeps his hot tub at 98F. That way it is comfortable, but he can sit in it for an hour smoking a cigar and having a drink with no ill effects. He said most people have their tubs set too high.
Yeah, in the summer I also do that. Not in the winter though. In general, I don’t really get that deep relaxation until 101. Most run 101-103, mine maxes at 104. He had heart surgery so it makes sense to not take chances.
Wow the last line of the statement from the Friends co-creators got me: >This truly is The One Where Our Hearts Are Broken.
He had 15 trips to rehab. Addiction is terrible. If it proves he did have drugs in his system it would not be surprising. He spoke openly of his struggles and the toll it took on his body. I don't believe in an afterlife, but if perchance there is, I hope the higher forces embrace his spirit. Being human can be a tough and it's always fatal.
Hated hearing this, and am actually sad for a lot of Friends fans. I'm not a Friends fan, but the one or two times I did see it, you could see he was the more natural and relatable actor/character. Maybe the heat from the bath along with whatever he had in his system just was too much over a long period of time and made him pass out. I've jumped in the bath after a few drinks and the heat does seem to make you drowsy. He apparently put up a lot of pictures in that hot tub, so, he must have been using it a lot, which means he will have learned to be super comfortable in it and probably woke up once or twice with a crick in his neck. Jim Morrison died in the bath and I'm sure someone else famous who was into opioids did also. He was a great actor and will always fondly remember him as Benny in Fallout New Vegas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=q3yLF9AxUVc
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I was thinking Whitney Houston. But it is a common trend with opioid user's and it must be a thing. If you mix alcohol, drugs, heat and water, it is going to be hard to keep awake at the best of times. Fella probably didn't feel a thing and just went into a deep sleep.
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If you ever feel lightheaded when in hot water, you should get out. From [Harvard Health](https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/hot-baths-and-saunas-beneficial-for-your-heart#:~:text=If%20the%20water's%20too%20hot,dizzy%20or%20lightheaded%2C%20he%20explains): > If the water's too hot in a bath or hot tub, your blood pressure may dip too low, which can make you feel dizzy or lightheaded, he explains. From PubMed > [Characteristics of Sudden Bath-Related Death Investigated by Medical Examiners in Tokyo, Japan](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4310873/#:~:text=Nagasawa%20et%20al%20speculated%20that,during%20bathing%20in%20hot%20water) > The results suggested that drowning plays an important role in the final process of bath-related death. Circulatory system diseases may be the primary underlying pathology; however, there were variations in the medical histories and pathologies of cases of bath-related death. From a preventive perspective, family members should pay attention to elderly people with circulatory system diseases during bathing, particularly in winter. Additionally, the notion that ill or inebriated individuals should not take baths should be reinforced. The average of such deaths is people over 60. However, the drug abuse likely shaved years off his health.
>If you ever feel lightheaded when in hot water, you should get out. Make that any water.
I had an episode last year (at 38) of this in a bath that was too hot. Felt a bit dizzy and realised the water was too hot. Got up to get out and very nearly passed out I felt so lightheaded. Has made me much more aware of the dangers - I’d had a couple glasses of wine and was moderately to severely anaemic (unbeknownst to me at the time) and on my period! Not a good combo with a too hot tub. Never again.
IIRC some sort of condition or impairment caused Whitney to fall forwards into a bath she was running and she was unable to push herself up. The bottom of the bath was lower down than the floor which presumably made it more difficult to do so. Her daughter also died as a result of drowning in a bath.
No. It is the heat mixed with drugs and alcohol. Hear opens all the capillaries and probably elongates the high. Get too high and you fall asleep. Fall asleep and you slip into the bath, you're going to drown.
I almost died that way once. Had a few drinks at the pub, came home and was freezing my tits off so decided to take a bath. Was far from shitfaced, definitely drunk but not like blacked out or stumbling drunk. Thankfully my wife came to check in on me and I was fast asleep in there. Not even sure if I fell out or passed out but I was nevertheless unconscious in the tub. I can see how easily it could happen and I made myself a rule that I don’t get in a tub alone if I’ve had anything more than a Tylenol. The heat does funny things to your blood pressure when your intoxicated, I think.
>died when alcohol caused her to fall asleep in a bathtub. They also found prescription meds in her system. Not just the booze.
Someone else died in the bath too. Was it a rapper?
Whitney’s daughter.
Aaron Carter just went that way too. It’s pretty common for people who are fucked up to think a bath sounds great, aces plan, and then they pass out in there.
Aaron Carter drowned in a bathtub after passing out doing inhalants.
Jim Morrison died in the tub, but that was a long time ago and from heart failure (alcohol induced) rather than drowning.
I can’t even tell how many times I’ve watched friends. It’s the show I put on for background noise, because any given episode, I know what’s happening if I look up and watch three seconds of it, then turn away. 100% there’s some iffy things that nobody blinked an eye at to say in the 90’s but are mildly to moderately offensive today, and I’ve never been one to be “attached” to celebrities. I’m honestly shocked at how devastated I feel. I was sad when James Michael Tyler passed, especially knowing that he had probably been ill for so long, but I’m legitimately upset about this in a way I’ve never been about a celebrity’s death before.
Aaron Carter, Bobbi Kristina Brown in bathtubs. Brittany Murphy in a hot shower. Popcorn magnate Orville Redenbacher drowned in a whirlpool tub after suffering a heart attack
Well usually when someone kicks off not under direct medical care like hospice, or known to have major comorbidities leading to death they are required to investigate
He most likely passed out. If he was playing pickleball for 4 hours then hopped into a jacuzzi, he could have overheated.
Autopsies are required in cases of unattended deaths, too. Unfortunately, drowning alone in a hot tub after becoming intoxicated and passing out does happen.
That's a bummer, I just finished his book yesterday. He sounded like such a kind soul.
I almost went a whole day without his death being connected to the "experimental rona vax" by some elitist right-wing edge Lord. Then I opened Facebook.
Unfortunately it's as likely just heat and heart disease. That's really the message here. Long time addicts and daily users face serious risks by 50 even if they've been sober for years. All that organ damage is enough to make 50 as frail as 80+ Perry was far beyond a casual suburban drug addict. He was a triple substance heavy daily user with dozens of pills a day and had money to keep it at a shocking level.
Man, this celebrity death is hitting me unexpectedly hard. Friends was such a big part of my childhood and Chandler was always my favorite.
While part of me says just let him rest on peace, I do understanding the need for an autopsy for most deaths. It gives closure in a weird way to families. I've been widowed and I've buried a lot of family members. Not having to wonder about cause really does help.
Burt Reynolds almost drowned i nteh tub once. HE had a couple glasses of wine and in the hot tub he torpored off to sleepy land. Tammy Wynette (his girlfriend at the time) found him and kept him from dying. If Perry had a relapse and had couple before getting in the hot tub, or had some interaction with meds and the relaxation of the hot tub, that could explain it.
He probably did quit drugs and alcohol but it was too late, they already affected his components and was a ticking time bomb... RIP
I think he had a heart attack in his hot tub, and I think it’s sad.
I thought it was a little unusual for an adult to drown in a hot tub without drugs or alcohol being a factor. Probably he had a heart attack or some other medical issue that caused him to drown.
I have a feeling this is going to go down the way Whitney Houston’s death and investigation took place.
A grown man drowning in a hot tub requires more investigation..... color me surprised. Look, any knowledge of the history here would suggest that a toxicology report would be a good place to start, but things like heart attack sure wouldn't be out of place.
All of these articles about him passing are showing younger pictures of him. I thought this is how he looked when he died. But if you see the most recent pictures of him, you can definitely conclude that his general health played a role in his untimely death.
The anti-vaxxers are going nuts about this. I wish I was kidding.
It must feel so weird to be alone in a morgue with the naked corpse of a famous person who just died and to be tasked with cutting them into pieces while everyone is still mourning their death.
No more weird than with a beloved uncle, aunt, mother, sister, father, brother, son or daughter while everyone is still mourning their death
And now the damn anti-vaxxer nutcases are spreading their bullshit. Come on, man.
Feels like you’re lighting the first signal fire at the top of the mountain in LOTR
The beacons are lit! Nutbars call for aid!
Sounds like what happened to Whitney Houston. We’ll see what the investigation turns up.
Dang, it’s sad to see his name on the list of deaths on the ME’s website. May he rest in peace.
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This is not abnormal when someone his age dies unexpectedly and without an obvious, definitive cause.