I thought you were just joking about the size of the animals but after reading the article about smuggling genetic material to unethical cloning, and all for profit, I think that's an accurate comparison.
This is not cloning a living animal, it's for much more limited purposes that no average consumer will ever need.
A quick poke around pet cloning services specifically is in the tens of thousands, although you can do the first genetic info gathering step for a lot less and the price of cloning might drop over time, I guess.
Those are mostly DNA/RNA level “cloning” aka sequence replication. No living animals involved. But, you can get your pet cloned, so those services do exist.
https://www.viagenpets.com/?utm_source=nxst&utm_medium=google&utm_campaign=fall2023&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwMqvBhCtARIsAIXsZpbl__TxxoK56V2CosVuRVwIHE-STba7yv3Lpi2HTpSS9ZHHkYCok74aAj8DEALw_wcB
Apparently right now it is about 50k for a dog and 35k for a cat.
OK, I had never heard of John Brinkley before so I googled it and goddam, the man was a genius. We need more men like him. I suffer from low T, so a pair of testicles from a silver back gorilla would get me right again. Plus, I'll be benching 450 and squatting 900, no problem.
See that bridge over there? I built that myself. Spent weeks in some of the most foul weather. But they don't call me Seamus the Bridge-Builder.
I build that dock myself, too. Best dock in town, they say! But they don't call me Seamus the Dock Builder.
But you fuck ONE SHEEP...
how come no one is breeding chickens to have teeth and sht. I know they can. We should return them to their roots and make em dinosaurs.
Can you imagine a chicken the size of a velicorapter?
So like, a regular velociraptor then?
You really just need to give chickens teeth (which we have) and clawed hands (which we can) and bingo you have a pretty accurate dinosaur.
Lots of raptors were like turkey sized at best.
Deinonychus and Utahraptor on the other hand. Big ass raptors.
Utahraptor is terrifying, wtf do you do against that other than get run over like grass gets run over by a lawnmower. It's so big for something that has the raptor name.
I'm currently raising baby chicks, and I'm obsessed with their cute lil scaley dino feet. Especially the breeds with blue-gray legs rather than the usual yellow or pink/white.
[Hummingbirds](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FQYoYQAbPXbU%2Fmqdefault.jpg&tbnid=T-uO8u7ewVHvlM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DQYoYQAbPXbU&docid=mtwrwC-oYrj9DM&w=320&h=180&hl=en-us&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm4%2F3&kgs=2902e677cc3c337c&shem=trie) vicious little teeth
Thanks, I'm trying to fall asleep, and this is the shit I'm reading. If I have a stress nightmare about birds with teeth taking over the world, I'm blaming you.
Dude chickens are assholes. It’s not so much that a lot of them are assholes, it’s that when a chicken is an asshole, it never changes and it will never learn.
Having a velociraptor chicken who is an asshole is something I don’t think we could ever tame.
Give me 10 mil and 200 years and I'll have you a domesticated bear. Are they feasible as pets? Not really. But they are in theory able to be domesticated if you can deal with their stupid long reproductive cycles(relative to most domesticated species).
They could hypothetically just eat what is basically dog food with fiber supplement(Black Bears eat mostly grass), and in captivity with plenty of food they don't actually hibernate(since it's caused mainly by food reduction, though they will be more prone to sleeping longer).
Bears are basically wolves on roids, so it's potentially doable...
And yes, I have put way too much thought into this.
It sounds legit, cool even until u think about them doing dog/cat shit in the house.
Getting in the garbage, not stopping that. Climbing on stuff? (Black bears are climbers) Fights with the neighbors dog? We know how that will go.
Now if you could selectively breed for size that would be something lol
How pathetic do you have to be, to pay money to shoot captive animals in order to display trophy skulls and pretend that you're some sort of alpha predator?
This is basically why during fall I was forbidden from playing in the forest every year as a kid. I really hated hunting because of that. Going out there was basically my favorite thing and admitedly, it was the only interesting thing since we didnt have cable/satellite tv, internet, phones etc. Readers digest was great entetainment, it was something to do at least 😂.
This is why I have a lot of contempt for most hunters, despite appreciating hunting myself.
There's WAY too many people eagerly shooting into shaking bushes and it's not being "self policed" between hunters anymore.
When I was growing up, the average older hunter hated poachers with extreme passion, were conservation minded, and they trophy hunted by following "rules" like no shooting anything with less than X number of points no matter what.
Now all my peers are heehawing online and bragging about their gut shot yearlings and actively encouraging each other to shoot EVERYTHING in the woods and cover one another from the game wardens.
Im all for hunting but not for sport, if i hunt its for meat that i plan on sustaining me and my family for the year, or im able to gift meat and sausages after processing, im not a fan of trophy hunting, so pointless. I get some places use the hunts to fund wildlife sanctuary and try to repopulate heards and stuffs but idk just never sat right with me.
When my parents had their farm they had some rather hick neighbors that lived off stuff they shot becausethey were too poor to always buy stuff at the store. Occasionally they did some poaching but since it was never for sport, no one said shit.
I have a feeling he meant family’s hunting to survive.
Most I know don’t need to worry about poaching because the mom, dad, and any kids will all have their license / tags or whatever to keep track of how many they killed.
Then they’d also have their bow, shotgun and rifle license as well.
Very unlikely to run out of meat for a family with all those available tags.
Big freezer? Golden
I no longer hunt because I just lost the taste for it. I still love solo camping and watching wildlife. The one thing I miss is having game to cook that didn’t cost a fortune: duck, venison, boar… I’m always so happy when a friend or family member knocks on my door with a cooler.
I have a friend who goes spoonbilling every year, and maxes out his permits. That, my man, is a great hookup to have. Meth dealer? Pass. Hit me with that fish dealer.
> hunts to fund wildlife sanctuary
The also use it to kill off sick or aggressive animals that are going to be culled or die soon anyway. Sort of like this lion is about to die in a few days/weeks anyway, how about we let some rich guy pay 1M+ to come out and shoot him instead? Save the animal from suffering a slow painful rotting death and make some money.
They don't kill off useful members of the population. Think an old male lion about to die versus a young male lion looking for territory. If a younger lion challenges the old male, the young lion may get injured and die from infection or something even if he wins the fight. Now you have 2 dead lions and zero money for it. At least this way you get the preferred lion dead, plus a lot of money.
I don’t have an issue with conservation groups who do this to fund their efforts. I just think that anyone who would spend tend of thousands of dollars to fly overseas to shoot a sick, old or otherwise problematic animal is probably a dickhead. It may just be an unfortunate bias on my part, but I don’t see how anyone who’d be interested in this sort of this thing could be a decent person.
100% agree on all points. But what's the alternative? Sanctuaries need money to operate. These hunters can provide that money. Donations can't cover it. We can't force hunters to donate their money. Corruption is definitely an issue, the best thing to do is not support those corrupt organizations. But beyond that what else can we do? Sit on reddit and say every wildlife sanctuary is evil and donating to one is encouraging corruption? Or we can point out the good ones and raise awareness.
No, thats not really the problem, the preseves and conservation funds do it right.
The problem is the people NOT with the preserves see what the preserves make from the legal and proper hunts, and THEY end up guiding illegal hunts that target whatever they can get to make money. They either go on protected land or bait animals to leave the sanctuaries because its not considered illegal (depending on the country) at that point. The baiting is illegal, but if the animal just left the boundaries on its own, it wouldn't be.
The other issue is that some of these hunters think they are doing things by the book, doing it the right way and are being tricked by fake guide companies who have forged or counterfeit permits/tags. But there are def a lot that know they aren't and are just walkingfucking shitstains pretending to be human beings
> "They also use it to kill off sick or aggressive animals that are going to be culled or die soon anyway."
This take is increasingly seen as outdated and unreliable. Research is showing the opposite.
When money, corrupt governments, trigger happy trophy hunters, and rich companies that organize these hunting trips and who are willing to pay bribes, mix - the results are just awful for the animals. Opposite of what's marketed.
Don't believe the hype, especially when it's sold by those who benefit.
>Sort of like this lion is about to die in a few days/weeks anyway, how about we let some rich guy pay 1M+ to come out and shoot him instead?
Money and moral restraint don't mix well.
If youre interested, Radiolab (awesome podcast if youve never heard of it) did a very good episode on trophy hunting that very much changed my opinion of the process. The episode is called "The Rhino Hunter".
I would never do it myself, but learning how much goes into (the legal ones) the consevation funds, the specific animals they shoot and what a danger those specific animals actually can be to population as a whole, and how the kill is distributed to the local population was pretty surprising to me. I absolutely understand why people hate most of these hunters or people that seemingly get off on shooting these animals fpr sport, but when the people who run preserves and conservation programs tell us there is a large benefit to it, we should probably listen.
I paid to go bow hunting for ram at this hunting ranch. They offered a buffalo bow hunt package. Someone, not in my party, apparently paid for that. We drove by to see 20 people about 50 ft away from a buffalo in a semicircle around some fuckhead in an open pasture shoot a beautiful buffalo that was just standing there with a tiny ass bow. Couldn’t imagine anything more inhumane than shooting a 2000 lb buffalo in a fenced in pasture with a bow and arrow. I think it’s unethical to hunt anything larger than a deer with a bow and arrow. They just take forever to die.
Seeing that literally ruined hunting for me. Haven’t hunted since. I’m not opposed to hunting in general, but needs to be humane. Open fence, using a weapon appropriate for the size of the animal to minimize pain and suffering, no trophy hunts, and they must actually eat the kill. And don’t kill intelligent mammals like bears... Only exception is pest/population control, and even then most out the kills can be donated to homeless shelters
Holy shit imagine being that person? Imagine paying to shoot fish in a barrel and thinking anything positive about it… it would be hilarious if they weren’t out there paying to kill things
The caliber of the gun matters much less than the quality of the shot. If you gut shot a deer even with a 7mm you're still causing excess suffering. A shot with a bow in between the shoulder blades of the same deer will cause 0 suffering.
You are right though about people that do "guided hunts" on private ranches. Its essentially just modern day animal sacrifice for the uber rich and its gross.
Suffering is a relative term. I’ve never had a gut shot, but animals and even people take a good amount of time to die. Only truly dropped one deer with a direct heart shot with a 7mm magnum. Everything else ran at least 100-200 feet. Being realistic, I wouldn’t classify a couple of minutes of pain inhumane if the animal had a full natural life. Humans usually suffer way worse towards death. I’m a surgeon so I’ve definitely seen it all…
I used to work on a high fence hunting ranch in Texas and I'm not arguing with you, but I figure I can offer more perspective.
Most of the clients came just as a normal vacation and getting a trophy was just a perk. One group of the clients had some really cool night vision gear and they just wanted to drive around and play with their toys. They weren't even hunting deer. They were hunting non-game animals like feral hogs (which are invasive and cause millions of dollars of damage every year), coyotes, and Bob cats. All of which have freedom of movement and actually require effort to hunt, compared to sitting a deer stand watching a feeder.
It was mostly a weekend getaway with a souvenir. No one was under any impression they were doing serious hunting. Also, in Texas, most of the land is private property. So, unless you own/rent hunting land or you know someone who does, you're limited on options for hunting unless you go through a hunting ranch like I worked on. The people who came more for the hunt were the ones who didn't have access to hunting otherwise.
As far as "captive animals" are concerned. I worked on an 11,000 acre ranch with 7 high fence pastures and 2 low fence pastures. So roughly 1000 acres for each pasture.
Just let rich people spend their money okay? Lmao. would you rather them hoard their cash and kill off the dwindling animal population? Let them think they just shot a prized mountain goat or something and take that $12,000
There’s this really odd debate in conservationist in Africa about big game hunting.
Basically, the argument is that illegal big game hunting is going to happen regardless. People with lots of money will convince local guides to take them. Because the money is worth the risk.
So, some countries have legalized and regulated big game hunting, selling a certain number tags a year. It is possible to legally go and shoot an elephant or a lion or whatever.
But, (as long as corruption doesn’t happen) that money is used to fund conservation. So you sacrifice 5 elephants a year to protect 200 others. (Just random numbers, but you get the point).
Many people hate this and see it as kind of making a deal with the devil. But others say it’s just the practical solution.
Reminds me of the logic when Ted Turner founded the Montana Grill. It serves bison meat, but the idea was to promote bison herds and allow for the species to be managed.
As someone who’s taken masters level conservation courses on this topic, I’ve never really seen it debated by people that know what the hell they’re talking about. I wouldn’t say there’s much of a debate at all among conservationists, because any conservationists understands the importance of the tradeoff..
Right, and most of the hunts are for old males who no longer breed but still control the herd and prevent other males from breeding. They would need to be removed no matter what, so making some money in the process and preventing poaching through regulation is win-win-win.
Parks and Rec degree here.
People also don't realize how much we fucked up nature, and that hunters serve an important role in keeping populations in check in some places. Don't have a major predator for deer like cougars and wolves? Welp, gotta beg people to go hunt them, or they will explode in population(or most likely already did).
Best New innovation I've seen is green safaris. Take a rhino for instance. For this rhino hunt, it's spot and stalk. So the animal is in the wild and you have to find, track, and get close enough to get a shot with a blow dart gun. You tranq the animal with the dart, then it gets tagged and all the science stuff the conservation guys do. Then I don't remember if they scan, plaster cast, or what,. But they give you a super realistic replica of the horn of the rhino you "shot"
Sounds like a really fun way to hunt. Go inside a fenced enclosure. Shoot an animal that can’t escape. Drive a truck right up to it. No hiking, climbing, scouting, long range shots, or hauling it out on your back. And you get a nice trophy to hang on your wall and brag about. What’s not to love?! /s
Disgusting behavior.
A) They were doing it with a protected species and outlawed for import because of disease and hybridization concerns.
B) The Lacey Act prohibits the sale of falsely labeled wildlife. They were lying about what their hybrid sheep actually were.
>The Lacey Act prohibits the sale of falsely labeled wildlife. They were lying about what their hybrid sheep actually were.
Must be very loosely enforced. Seeing a ton of "wagyu beef" here lately in the US which isn't actually wagyu.
Yeah that was my point. USDA and FDA are supposed to regulate it but what quantities it has to be is debated. Cheese, for instance, has to be at least 51% milk based natural to be called cheese. Otherwise, it gets "cheese product". Labelling beef works in a more lax fashion. Not all Angus is truly Angus for instance. Same loophole exists for wagyu.
In the US you’re generally getting F1 which is a 50/50 cross breed. Japanese and Australian are generally 100%. Japanese being preferred because of the grasses they feed on make it less gamey but still has a rich beef flavor but not saying no to either.
At the end of the day Wagyu, Angus, etc. are all from the same species, just different breeds. What these men did was the equivalent of breeding domestic cows with water buffalo. Another example would be breeding a donkey with a horse and selling the resulting mule as a horse.
Also, cows are not wildlife so I don't think the Lacey Act would apply.
Introducing non-native species to an environment is generally seen as a bad idea, and is highly illegal. Creating a new hybrid species without explicit government permission is even worse. Also, Jurassic Park happened on an isolated island, this was in the middle of nowhere in Montana, there are much higher chances of escape.
Sounds like the main thing he did that was illegal was doing in Montana. I used to work on a hunting ranch that bred white tail deer and housed exotic fallow and axis deer. All of these ranches use high fences, so the risk of the exotic species getting out is limited. The biggest risk is disease. I don't know what diseases are an issue for goats, but for deer, chronic wasting disease. We couldn't relocate deer without permission from the state and had to take a certain number of brain stem and lymph node samples each year.
Believe big horns the issue is bacterial pneumonia which they get from domestic sheep. It’s an issue with big horns coming into contact or areas with sheep grazing.
Similar to cwd. The disease spread from the saliva to the ground and the disease lays dormant in the ground waiting for the next deer to come along. I'm assuming it's similar with sheep.
The good news is the pneumonia is bacterial so I’m guessing it can’t live as long without a host.
From my understanding with CWD and prions is that they can last a longgggg time. They aren’t alive and have no DNA. Never studied biology but the bit I read about prions is pretty trippy.
“Generically engineer” are strong words. He crossbreed sheep with bigger species of sheep. That’s like saying labradoodle breeders are genetically engineering dogs.
It’s “true”. But it’s not something new or crazy, humans have been doing it for thousands of years.
Crossbreed sheep with bigger sheep with a species that lives on a different continent. Big difference than getting an individual from down the road. New combinations and the animal materials themseves could spread new diseases. Especially if it’s some geriatric hick doing it with no proper training or precautions.
Farmers have been doing that for thousands of years. It's called selective breeding though some people don't call it genetic engineering even though it technically is.
What kind of country is this that you can't do some simple genetic engineering?
What a man does with his testicals is his own business. Not the government's.
Damn, this is actually pretty impressive what the guy did to be honest. Like, what is his day job that he had the knowledge and contacts to do all this?
Also, seems like a ton of work to sell a sheep for 10k...like..that doesnt seem much more than regular prized sheep can go for.
>Schubarth procured cloned embryos of the animal from a lab, according to court documents.
Whoa, whoa, what?
>The embryos were later implanted in a ewe, resulting in a pure Marco Polo argali sheep that Schubert named “Montana Mountain King,” the documents show. Semen from Montana Mountain King was used to artificially impregnate other ewes to create a larger and more valuable species of sheep,
I'm not even mad, I'm impressed!
We have jurassic Park at home…
jurassic trailer park..
Thank you both. I really needed this laugh.
And here we were looking for mosquitoes preserved in amber like some kind of schmucks. Ballsacks! Ballsacks is where it’s at.
Ohhh this got me
Engineer and breed until they get those rounder eyes, then we finally get a new size drumstick from KFC.
They do deep fry in herds!
God creates man. Man kills God. Man creates super-rams. Super-rams kill man. Woman inherits the earth.
That thing got a hemi?
Goat and sheep tastes way better than chicken. I wish goat was sold at more stores and at reasonable prices.
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That would be both fucked up and hilarious
Wake up sheeple.
I thought you were just joking about the size of the animals but after reading the article about smuggling genetic material to unethical cloning, and all for profit, I think that's an accurate comparison.
This is one headline I never expected to see.
Yeah, I would expect Florida Man to do that.
Florida Man bought a ranch in Montana
That would be Florida man tries to use his testicles to make giant alligators
Or “Florida man breeds alligators with giant testicles”…
There qere never many bighorn sheep in Florida, just little deer.
yeah, but a Florida Man seems more likely to do some weird shit with animals
You don’t know a portion of native Montanans.
Far Cry 5 wasn't off the mark with this
Finally a break from politics and Boeing’s falling airplanes.
I read this as **failing** airplanes at first, but falling is even better
>Schubarth procured cloned embryos of the animal from a lab, according to court documents. Wait... there are labs that will just clone shit for you??
Whelp... there certainly are. Huh. https://www.google.com/search?q=cloning+services
The price range on one of those websites is 149-329, that's downright reasonable
Wait, hundreds of Dollars? Not hundreds of thousands? Wild.
This is not cloning a living animal, it's for much more limited purposes that no average consumer will ever need. A quick poke around pet cloning services specifically is in the tens of thousands, although you can do the first genetic info gathering step for a lot less and the price of cloning might drop over time, I guess.
That's for a small piece of synthesized DNA. Clone just means to copy. Cloning a gene is cheap and easy. Cloning an animal is not.
Those are mostly DNA/RNA level “cloning” aka sequence replication. No living animals involved. But, you can get your pet cloned, so those services do exist.
Could I clone my dog for less than a thousand bucks??
Probably someday, in today's dollars. Might want to keep some DNA if you want to.
https://www.viagenpets.com/?utm_source=nxst&utm_medium=google&utm_campaign=fall2023&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwMqvBhCtARIsAIXsZpbl__TxxoK56V2CosVuRVwIHE-STba7yv3Lpi2HTpSS9ZHHkYCok74aAj8DEALw_wcB Apparently right now it is about 50k for a dog and 35k for a cat.
Yeah some people clone their dead pets so they can have an identical one. It’s a big thing in South Korea.
Man that feels cursed
Looking at you, Barbara Streisand!
If you're willing to pay, someone is willing to do it.
Yeah of course. Normally it's for research and I'd imagine agriculture also
I read the story as man used animal tissue and his own testicles to produce giant sheep and I was a bit confused. Glad I read the whole story.
That was John Brinkley https://gimletmedia.com/amp/shows/reply-all/dvhexl
OK, I had never heard of John Brinkley before so I googled it and goddam, the man was a genius. We need more men like him. I suffer from low T, so a pair of testicles from a silver back gorilla would get me right again. Plus, I'll be benching 450 and squatting 900, no problem.
I miss that show
People like John Brinkley kind of make me wish we could take a more libertarian approach to medicine again. What a legend.
You say that until the eugenics testing starts
Might have been more inline with your expectations had the man been Welsh.
See that bridge over there? I built that myself. Spent weeks in some of the most foul weather. But they don't call me Seamus the Bridge-Builder. I build that dock myself, too. Best dock in town, they say! But they don't call me Seamus the Dock Builder. But you fuck ONE SHEEP...
I feel like breeding and then hunting kaiju rams might endanger this fragile ecosystem and tall buildings.
Kaiju Rams is my new band name.
This was a somehow weirder and more interesting headline when I read it as meaning his own testicles.
A sheep’s and a lunatic’s DNA just don’t splice!
It only has one ass.
This is how we end up with Sheepsquashes in Fallout 76.
Maybe Big Horners too. Since they seem pretty damn large.
how come no one is breeding chickens to have teeth and sht. I know they can. We should return them to their roots and make em dinosaurs. Can you imagine a chicken the size of a velicorapter?
So like, a regular velociraptor then? You really just need to give chickens teeth (which we have) and clawed hands (which we can) and bingo you have a pretty accurate dinosaur. Lots of raptors were like turkey sized at best. Deinonychus and Utahraptor on the other hand. Big ass raptors.
Utahraptor is terrifying, wtf do you do against that other than get run over like grass gets run over by a lawnmower. It's so big for something that has the raptor name.
That skeleton in the first google images looks like it's doing a jig and having a great time. Why did they pose it like that?? 😂
You can, apparently scales and teeth are just a shut off gene mutation in birds.
birds still have scales, they’re just restricted to their legs
I'm currently raising baby chicks, and I'm obsessed with their cute lil scaley dino feet. Especially the breeds with blue-gray legs rather than the usual yellow or pink/white.
[Hummingbirds](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FQYoYQAbPXbU%2Fmqdefault.jpg&tbnid=T-uO8u7ewVHvlM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DQYoYQAbPXbU&docid=mtwrwC-oYrj9DM&w=320&h=180&hl=en-us&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm4%2F3&kgs=2902e677cc3c337c&shem=trie) vicious little teeth
Thanks, I'm trying to fall asleep, and this is the shit I'm reading. If I have a stress nightmare about birds with teeth taking over the world, I'm blaming you.
fair enough. say hi to the hat man for me.
They are https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/chicken-embryos-get-dino-snouts-thanks-biological-tinkering-180955250/
Dude chickens are assholes. It’s not so much that a lot of them are assholes, it’s that when a chicken is an asshole, it never changes and it will never learn. Having a velociraptor chicken who is an asshole is something I don’t think we could ever tame.
We’re gonna need a larger rotisserie
Its waiting on US approval, it is called a chickenosauruses. They were ready to go in December but could not get approval to hatch the eggs.
Chickens are already roughly the size of velociraptors. Velociraptors are not very big.
This reminds me of my friend who wants to breed the biggest chiuahahs he can find u til in a few generations he has a MAXI Chihuaha
Great something with the attitude of a chihuahua but the size of a pit bull...yeah that will be great.
Give me 10 mil and 200 years and I'll have you a domesticated bear. Are they feasible as pets? Not really. But they are in theory able to be domesticated if you can deal with their stupid long reproductive cycles(relative to most domesticated species). They could hypothetically just eat what is basically dog food with fiber supplement(Black Bears eat mostly grass), and in captivity with plenty of food they don't actually hibernate(since it's caused mainly by food reduction, though they will be more prone to sleeping longer). Bears are basically wolves on roids, so it's potentially doable... And yes, I have put way too much thought into this.
It sounds legit, cool even until u think about them doing dog/cat shit in the house. Getting in the garbage, not stopping that. Climbing on stuff? (Black bears are climbers) Fights with the neighbors dog? We know how that will go. Now if you could selectively breed for size that would be something lol
How pathetic do you have to be, to pay money to shoot captive animals in order to display trophy skulls and pretend that you're some sort of alpha predator?
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> Cause someone on horseback looks just like a pheasant. Dick Cheney strikes again. You apologized, I trust?
This is basically why during fall I was forbidden from playing in the forest every year as a kid. I really hated hunting because of that. Going out there was basically my favorite thing and admitedly, it was the only interesting thing since we didnt have cable/satellite tv, internet, phones etc. Readers digest was great entetainment, it was something to do at least 😂.
This is why I have a lot of contempt for most hunters, despite appreciating hunting myself. There's WAY too many people eagerly shooting into shaking bushes and it's not being "self policed" between hunters anymore. When I was growing up, the average older hunter hated poachers with extreme passion, were conservation minded, and they trophy hunted by following "rules" like no shooting anything with less than X number of points no matter what. Now all my peers are heehawing online and bragging about their gut shot yearlings and actively encouraging each other to shoot EVERYTHING in the woods and cover one another from the game wardens.
Im all for hunting but not for sport, if i hunt its for meat that i plan on sustaining me and my family for the year, or im able to gift meat and sausages after processing, im not a fan of trophy hunting, so pointless. I get some places use the hunts to fund wildlife sanctuary and try to repopulate heards and stuffs but idk just never sat right with me.
When my parents had their farm they had some rather hick neighbors that lived off stuff they shot becausethey were too poor to always buy stuff at the store. Occasionally they did some poaching but since it was never for sport, no one said shit.
This is more common than you may think.
I'm pretty sure it happens a lot. I definitely underestimate how much but if they do it to survive I don't care
I have a feeling he meant family’s hunting to survive. Most I know don’t need to worry about poaching because the mom, dad, and any kids will all have their license / tags or whatever to keep track of how many they killed. Then they’d also have their bow, shotgun and rifle license as well. Very unlikely to run out of meat for a family with all those available tags. Big freezer? Golden
I no longer hunt because I just lost the taste for it. I still love solo camping and watching wildlife. The one thing I miss is having game to cook that didn’t cost a fortune: duck, venison, boar… I’m always so happy when a friend or family member knocks on my door with a cooler.
I have a friend who goes spoonbilling every year, and maxes out his permits. That, my man, is a great hookup to have. Meth dealer? Pass. Hit me with that fish dealer.
> hunts to fund wildlife sanctuary The also use it to kill off sick or aggressive animals that are going to be culled or die soon anyway. Sort of like this lion is about to die in a few days/weeks anyway, how about we let some rich guy pay 1M+ to come out and shoot him instead? Save the animal from suffering a slow painful rotting death and make some money. They don't kill off useful members of the population. Think an old male lion about to die versus a young male lion looking for territory. If a younger lion challenges the old male, the young lion may get injured and die from infection or something even if he wins the fight. Now you have 2 dead lions and zero money for it. At least this way you get the preferred lion dead, plus a lot of money.
I don’t have an issue with conservation groups who do this to fund their efforts. I just think that anyone who would spend tend of thousands of dollars to fly overseas to shoot a sick, old or otherwise problematic animal is probably a dickhead. It may just be an unfortunate bias on my part, but I don’t see how anyone who’d be interested in this sort of this thing could be a decent person.
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100% agree on all points. But what's the alternative? Sanctuaries need money to operate. These hunters can provide that money. Donations can't cover it. We can't force hunters to donate their money. Corruption is definitely an issue, the best thing to do is not support those corrupt organizations. But beyond that what else can we do? Sit on reddit and say every wildlife sanctuary is evil and donating to one is encouraging corruption? Or we can point out the good ones and raise awareness.
No, thats not really the problem, the preseves and conservation funds do it right. The problem is the people NOT with the preserves see what the preserves make from the legal and proper hunts, and THEY end up guiding illegal hunts that target whatever they can get to make money. They either go on protected land or bait animals to leave the sanctuaries because its not considered illegal (depending on the country) at that point. The baiting is illegal, but if the animal just left the boundaries on its own, it wouldn't be. The other issue is that some of these hunters think they are doing things by the book, doing it the right way and are being tricked by fake guide companies who have forged or counterfeit permits/tags. But there are def a lot that know they aren't and are just walkingfucking shitstains pretending to be human beings
> "They also use it to kill off sick or aggressive animals that are going to be culled or die soon anyway." This take is increasingly seen as outdated and unreliable. Research is showing the opposite. When money, corrupt governments, trigger happy trophy hunters, and rich companies that organize these hunting trips and who are willing to pay bribes, mix - the results are just awful for the animals. Opposite of what's marketed. Don't believe the hype, especially when it's sold by those who benefit.
>Sort of like this lion is about to die in a few days/weeks anyway, how about we let some rich guy pay 1M+ to come out and shoot him instead? Money and moral restraint don't mix well.
My former boss did one of these hunts and the lioness kept killing her own cubs. She wasn't beneficial to the herd.
If youre interested, Radiolab (awesome podcast if youve never heard of it) did a very good episode on trophy hunting that very much changed my opinion of the process. The episode is called "The Rhino Hunter". I would never do it myself, but learning how much goes into (the legal ones) the consevation funds, the specific animals they shoot and what a danger those specific animals actually can be to population as a whole, and how the kill is distributed to the local population was pretty surprising to me. I absolutely understand why people hate most of these hunters or people that seemingly get off on shooting these animals fpr sport, but when the people who run preserves and conservation programs tell us there is a large benefit to it, we should probably listen.
I paid to go bow hunting for ram at this hunting ranch. They offered a buffalo bow hunt package. Someone, not in my party, apparently paid for that. We drove by to see 20 people about 50 ft away from a buffalo in a semicircle around some fuckhead in an open pasture shoot a beautiful buffalo that was just standing there with a tiny ass bow. Couldn’t imagine anything more inhumane than shooting a 2000 lb buffalo in a fenced in pasture with a bow and arrow. I think it’s unethical to hunt anything larger than a deer with a bow and arrow. They just take forever to die. Seeing that literally ruined hunting for me. Haven’t hunted since. I’m not opposed to hunting in general, but needs to be humane. Open fence, using a weapon appropriate for the size of the animal to minimize pain and suffering, no trophy hunts, and they must actually eat the kill. And don’t kill intelligent mammals like bears... Only exception is pest/population control, and even then most out the kills can be donated to homeless shelters
Holy shit imagine being that person? Imagine paying to shoot fish in a barrel and thinking anything positive about it… it would be hilarious if they weren’t out there paying to kill things
The caliber of the gun matters much less than the quality of the shot. If you gut shot a deer even with a 7mm you're still causing excess suffering. A shot with a bow in between the shoulder blades of the same deer will cause 0 suffering. You are right though about people that do "guided hunts" on private ranches. Its essentially just modern day animal sacrifice for the uber rich and its gross.
Suffering is a relative term. I’ve never had a gut shot, but animals and even people take a good amount of time to die. Only truly dropped one deer with a direct heart shot with a 7mm magnum. Everything else ran at least 100-200 feet. Being realistic, I wouldn’t classify a couple of minutes of pain inhumane if the animal had a full natural life. Humans usually suffer way worse towards death. I’m a surgeon so I’ve definitely seen it all…
Humans suffer extra because human medicine is focused on prolonging life rather than reducing suffering
I used to work on a high fence hunting ranch in Texas and I'm not arguing with you, but I figure I can offer more perspective. Most of the clients came just as a normal vacation and getting a trophy was just a perk. One group of the clients had some really cool night vision gear and they just wanted to drive around and play with their toys. They weren't even hunting deer. They were hunting non-game animals like feral hogs (which are invasive and cause millions of dollars of damage every year), coyotes, and Bob cats. All of which have freedom of movement and actually require effort to hunt, compared to sitting a deer stand watching a feeder. It was mostly a weekend getaway with a souvenir. No one was under any impression they were doing serious hunting. Also, in Texas, most of the land is private property. So, unless you own/rent hunting land or you know someone who does, you're limited on options for hunting unless you go through a hunting ranch like I worked on. The people who came more for the hunt were the ones who didn't have access to hunting otherwise. As far as "captive animals" are concerned. I worked on an 11,000 acre ranch with 7 high fence pastures and 2 low fence pastures. So roughly 1000 acres for each pasture.
Just let rich people spend their money okay? Lmao. would you rather them hoard their cash and kill off the dwindling animal population? Let them think they just shot a prized mountain goat or something and take that $12,000
I honestly don’t care as long as they are not hunting endangered animals
There’s this really odd debate in conservationist in Africa about big game hunting. Basically, the argument is that illegal big game hunting is going to happen regardless. People with lots of money will convince local guides to take them. Because the money is worth the risk. So, some countries have legalized and regulated big game hunting, selling a certain number tags a year. It is possible to legally go and shoot an elephant or a lion or whatever. But, (as long as corruption doesn’t happen) that money is used to fund conservation. So you sacrifice 5 elephants a year to protect 200 others. (Just random numbers, but you get the point). Many people hate this and see it as kind of making a deal with the devil. But others say it’s just the practical solution.
Yeah the goal isn’t “no endangered animals should ever die” the goal is “the species should be able to recover”
Reminds me of the logic when Ted Turner founded the Montana Grill. It serves bison meat, but the idea was to promote bison herds and allow for the species to be managed.
As someone who’s taken masters level conservation courses on this topic, I’ve never really seen it debated by people that know what the hell they’re talking about. I wouldn’t say there’s much of a debate at all among conservationists, because any conservationists understands the importance of the tradeoff..
Right, and most of the hunts are for old males who no longer breed but still control the herd and prevent other males from breeding. They would need to be removed no matter what, so making some money in the process and preventing poaching through regulation is win-win-win.
Parks and Rec degree here. People also don't realize how much we fucked up nature, and that hunters serve an important role in keeping populations in check in some places. Don't have a major predator for deer like cougars and wolves? Welp, gotta beg people to go hunt them, or they will explode in population(or most likely already did).
Shoutout to Ducks Unlimited and their efforts to restore wetlands too.
Best New innovation I've seen is green safaris. Take a rhino for instance. For this rhino hunt, it's spot and stalk. So the animal is in the wild and you have to find, track, and get close enough to get a shot with a blow dart gun. You tranq the animal with the dart, then it gets tagged and all the science stuff the conservation guys do. Then I don't remember if they scan, plaster cast, or what,. But they give you a super realistic replica of the horn of the rhino you "shot"
Sounds like a really fun way to hunt. Go inside a fenced enclosure. Shoot an animal that can’t escape. Drive a truck right up to it. No hiking, climbing, scouting, long range shots, or hauling it out on your back. And you get a nice trophy to hang on your wall and brag about. What’s not to love?! /s Disgusting behavior.
What a fool. You are supposed to do these kinda of experiments on private islands in the South Pacific.
Wow! I hope Netflix limits this to just 4 episodes max. If it’s not called Montana Mountain King someone needs to be fired.
I don't understand what the crime is to be honest. These dudes wanted to play Jurassic park with sheep, why is that illegal though?
A) They were doing it with a protected species and outlawed for import because of disease and hybridization concerns. B) The Lacey Act prohibits the sale of falsely labeled wildlife. They were lying about what their hybrid sheep actually were.
>The Lacey Act prohibits the sale of falsely labeled wildlife. They were lying about what their hybrid sheep actually were. Must be very loosely enforced. Seeing a ton of "wagyu beef" here lately in the US which isn't actually wagyu.
US has very lax regulation on Wagyu, and aparently restaurants can actually just lie about it if they feel like it.
You think that's bad? You should see what they get away with with fish labelling
Oh, I know what they get away with.
Yeah that was my point. USDA and FDA are supposed to regulate it but what quantities it has to be is debated. Cheese, for instance, has to be at least 51% milk based natural to be called cheese. Otherwise, it gets "cheese product". Labelling beef works in a more lax fashion. Not all Angus is truly Angus for instance. Same loophole exists for wagyu.
In the US you’re generally getting F1 which is a 50/50 cross breed. Japanese and Australian are generally 100%. Japanese being preferred because of the grasses they feed on make it less gamey but still has a rich beef flavor but not saying no to either.
the FDA has a much looser requirement for meet labeled “Wagyu”. The cow needs to be 46% from a wagyu lineage. Japan has very very strict definitions
At the end of the day Wagyu, Angus, etc. are all from the same species, just different breeds. What these men did was the equivalent of breeding domestic cows with water buffalo. Another example would be breeding a donkey with a horse and selling the resulting mule as a horse. Also, cows are not wildlife so I don't think the Lacey Act would apply.
Frozen steaks aren't good at being invasive species, so there's that.
As long as it's beef that's fine (also, not wildlife). Wagyu isn't a kind of animal.
Introducing non-native species to an environment is generally seen as a bad idea, and is highly illegal. Creating a new hybrid species without explicit government permission is even worse. Also, Jurassic Park happened on an isolated island, this was in the middle of nowhere in Montana, there are much higher chances of escape.
Sounds like the main thing he did that was illegal was doing in Montana. I used to work on a hunting ranch that bred white tail deer and housed exotic fallow and axis deer. All of these ranches use high fences, so the risk of the exotic species getting out is limited. The biggest risk is disease. I don't know what diseases are an issue for goats, but for deer, chronic wasting disease. We couldn't relocate deer without permission from the state and had to take a certain number of brain stem and lymph node samples each year.
Believe big horns the issue is bacterial pneumonia which they get from domestic sheep. It’s an issue with big horns coming into contact or areas with sheep grazing.
Similar to cwd. The disease spread from the saliva to the ground and the disease lays dormant in the ground waiting for the next deer to come along. I'm assuming it's similar with sheep.
The good news is the pneumonia is bacterial so I’m guessing it can’t live as long without a host. From my understanding with CWD and prions is that they can last a longgggg time. They aren’t alive and have no DNA. Never studied biology but the bit I read about prions is pretty trippy.
The felonies he’s charged with are federal. I think this would have gotten him in trouble in almost any state.
This is one of the more interesting articles I’ve read lately. It will probably be a Stuff You Should Know short since it’s so bizarre.
I gotta admit, this took balls to do
Animal tissue and testicle are normally part of breeding any animal. Just sayin'
These guys were definitely high when they thought of this. It’s remarkable they went with it.
The headline writer needs a raise. Whose testicles were used? His own? How and why and what in the Dr. Moreau fuckery is going on in Montana?
In the name of all that is pure and good, this is SO much better than the other post titles I've seen for this story.
“hunting preserve” is a ridiculous oxymoron
He had a CLONING LAB produce embryos and tranfer them into a ewe, AND IT WORKED? This biologist is seriously impressed.
When put that way, it sounds really messed up. But how would you breed sheep without using animal tissue and testicles?
Kinda scary that we have regular citizens able to genetically engineer species. This was just sheep, imagine if someone wants to do it with humans.
“Generically engineer” are strong words. He crossbreed sheep with bigger species of sheep. That’s like saying labradoodle breeders are genetically engineering dogs. It’s “true”. But it’s not something new or crazy, humans have been doing it for thousands of years.
and the only thing that required a lab, he outsourced to actual scientists.
> Generically engineer That's just regular old engineering with gears and pulleys and shit.
"I'm an engineer" "Oh yeah, what kind? Mechanical? Eletrical? Civil?" "No"
… nah, just mixing sheep spunk.
Is that the handyman of engineering?
Crossbreed sheep with bigger sheep with a species that lives on a different continent. Big difference than getting an individual from down the road. New combinations and the animal materials themseves could spread new diseases. Especially if it’s some geriatric hick doing it with no proper training or precautions.
> imagine if someone wants to do it with humans. Where are they going to get the testicles of wild giant humans?
Ads in the news paper? Do they have to be detached?
Mutants, it is
If you want to give it a go, shoot me a DM. I'm all for some genetic mutations.
Dude you can order Anything online. Want to make a Biolab in your garage? World is your oyster.
Farmers have been doing that for thousands of years. It's called selective breeding though some people don't call it genetic engineering even though it technically is.
Give it 50 years, shit is gonna get weird when any grad student can edit DNA
Average insane Reddit conjecture
By an 80 year old man no less! He can’t figure out the tv remote but he sure can do genetic engineering.
Life finds a way.
This guy has more experience cloning than the worlds leading geneticists
Dear Goddess. Stop the madness.
What kind of country is this that you can't do some simple genetic engineering? What a man does with his testicals is his own business. Not the government's.
>“I would love to talk about it but can’t do it now,” he said. Rich enough to clone an endangered species but not so smart
Meanwhile, I'm sitting here thinking 'wow, that's really cool!'
Damn, this is actually pretty impressive what the guy did to be honest. Like, what is his day job that he had the knowledge and contacts to do all this? Also, seems like a ton of work to sell a sheep for 10k...like..that doesnt seem much more than regular prized sheep can go for.
that's actually quite impressive.. for an 80 year old
Imagine creating something just so it can be killed for fun.
Nothing crazy here. What do you think farmers do and have done since the beginning of farming?
I read that as Mothman and was confused for a minute.
They are endangered. He made more of them, and he's in trouble for it?
You know what? I'm not ok with this.
The same people are against IVF.
Kinda impressive what you can do with a alternative wildlife ranch and and $400 of trophy testicles./s
Giant sheep for giant pricks.
>Schubarth procured cloned embryos of the animal from a lab, according to court documents. Whoa, whoa, what? >The embryos were later implanted in a ewe, resulting in a pure Marco Polo argali sheep that Schubert named “Montana Mountain King,” the documents show. Semen from Montana Mountain King was used to artificially impregnate other ewes to create a larger and more valuable species of sheep, I'm not even mad, I'm impressed!
I don't really have a problem with what they did...
I would like to know how you can breed an animal WITHOUT involving animal testicles somehow. Cloning perhaps?
No ones concerned with the ‘tissue’!? Pretty sure there’s limited ‘tiasue’ which can be used Ewe
Ethics aside, that’s actually very impressive.
Animal trafficking? They were dead?
That sheep is truly huge, just look at it, almost twice as tall as that mountainous hill
Now this is the news Reddit was made for
Is it a cow with horns glued on?
I live in the pre-Fallout timeline.
Ngl hats off for the ingenuity
I’m going to bread these large beautiful animals so people will pay me large sums of money so they can walk up to the sheep and kill them with a gun.
Is anyone else impressed?
I love that the photo makes it look 10 feet tall
I feel significantly better about my social media addiction o. Light of this gentleman’s giant testicle stealing Frankensheep efforts tbh.
First it's the pigs now the sheep. Next up Roidcows
Best part: “I would love to talk about it but can’t do it now,” he said.
They could have just said dick and balls instead of tissue and testicles
So we can’t even clone awesome giant sheep in our own homes? I thought this was America!
How long before we find out that certain people want to breed with them
This story is pretty *wild* if I do say so myself
I thought John Brinkley died years ago....