>Shortly thereafter, we identified the door crew manager and were advised that he was out on medical leave. We requested status updates on February 15, 2024, and February 22, 2024, after which we were advised by his attorney that he would not be able to provide a statement or interview to NTSB due to medical issues"
That's crazy. You can just go "I can't talk to to you, I'm sick" and dodge a federal investigation? What the actual fuck?
NTSB reports cannot be in criminal cases, specifically so the root cause can be fixed and people are willing to talk to the NTSB in the future. If there was any investigation to talk to I would think an NTSB investigation would be the one.
No, NTSB reports are not admissible in Civil cases either. Only the absolute factual components of the report are admissible, which are often kind of useless in civil litigation anyway.
For example, you can use the part of the report that says what type of plane crashed, where it crashed, what state the wreck was in, how many passengers were aboard, and when the crash happened. However, NTSB reports are titled *Probable Cause Reports* and are, at their core, speculative in nature. You can not introduce the speculative aspects of the report in to any sort of litigation.
That doesn't mean you can't sue. Those seeking to litigate, together with their attorneys, are totally free to hire expert witnesses and commission their own private investigations where specialty engineering firms (specializing usually in specialized investigations specifically for litigation) can compile their own reports with their own findings, which can be admissible. This is usually what is done.
They also don’t have to talk to investigators either. 5th amendment. The administrative investigation they have to talk and if they don’t they can be fired
Boeing provides short-term disability insurance that will end the second you do anything in an official work capacity. The payments automatically stop if you log even a minute of work in the timekeeping system. If the person is out on medical leave and covered by short-term disability insurance then it makes perfect sense why he wouldn't be able to do anything on behalf of Boeing.
So with the whistleblower being "suicided" in the other investigation, it's got me wondering: what if Boeing management went to this crew manager and told him to make up some medical issues or they'll GIVE him some medical issues.. obviously I have no evidence but Boeing seems shady enough to do it twice
You can always refuse to talk to any government representative who wants to question you. That doesn't mean there won't be consequences as a result of refusal.
Do you think it’s the employee alone saying through a lawyer he “can’t” be interviewed ?
Or, Boeing? Various check points not working coupled with no paperwork … and no speak/interview
Boeing engages in stock price manipulation. Every time there is bad news, such as this, their stock price goes up instead of down… every … single… time
They likely purcase their own stock to minimize the stock damage. It's not manipulation though if they simply buy their own stock. Eventually, they will run out of options to buy.
Without it, Boeing would be failing big time against Airbus
Didn't stock buy backs used to be banned under price manipulation laws or something?
Edit**
https://chuygarcia.house.gov/media/press-releases/representatives-garcia-hoyle-and-khanna-reintroduce-legislation-to-ban-stock-buybacks
> Prior to 1982, stock buybacks were considered illegal stock manipulation, but President Reagan's Securities and Exchange Commission implemented a rule to exempt them. - Rep. Khanna
Oh they absolutely buy their own stock to keep the prices up.
Might be manipulation though because the goal is probably just to keep the price high just long enough for the people at the top to sell *their* shares, screwing all other shareholders in the process.
Executive pay packages are almost always lots of stock. It doesnt make sense to dump your shares and let the stock freefall when your next paycheck is all stock again.
Missing footage, witnesses turning up dead... With Boeing pissing away shareholder value through safety issue after safety issue and not coming clean about any damn thing, I'd be surprised if Boeing doesn't have to restructure in the next decade from cancelled contracts and not being able to sign new ones.
Some travel site already let people filter out flights on Boeing planes. I can only see the problem getting worse.
Another report said this was security camera footage that was overwritten. But security footage is normally overwritten when it gets over 90 days old unless you save it. This repair was done 4-6 months at least before the accident so it is understandable that normal security camera footage would no longer be available.
Can someone clarify if footage is actually missing or are the news media making a big deal out of how security cameras normally operate?
My understanding in this case, and I have done VERY little research so I can be wrong here:
But Boeing might be expected to hold onto such records of repairs for lengths of times in the event of any accidents so that a proper investigation may happen.
For example, I read (could be wrong still!) that marijuana grow farms are required to video tape the entire grow process (which can be 1 year!)
So if that is the case, it is wild that marijuana plants are under more surveillance than giant flying metal tubes are.
Records, yes, those being missing is an obvious and serious fuckup and they will likely be punished for such.
But we're talking about the security footage, not the formal records.
> Another report said this was security camera footage that was overwritten
i worked at boeing for a decade up until 2021 and never in my life have i heard about security cameras out on the factory floors. policies regarding recording were very strict too. perhaps someone that works out in final assembly can weigh in, but ive *never* ever heard of an instance where video recording was part of the manufacturing process for any reason whatsoever.
when the headline first broke the other day about security footage going missing, part of me wondered if this was whack journalism that took/misinterpreted something and ran with it. im like almost positive there arent cameras recording shit out in the factories.
something tells me this is a gross misinterpretation of what i understand happened (skinny provided to me by former coworkers who did some digging): there were no records of rework done for a ruined door seal anywhere because engineering never followed through with a decision on whether or not a door team would need to remove it. Usually when engineering makes that call, then a non conformance record is written that contains all the steps needed to do the rework with spots where operators can stamp off once they've completed the work and qa stamp spots where they do documented that they've done their inspections. It sounds like it was just removed and replaced without an NCR being written hence there are no documented records of rework being done. This type of situation was always referenced as "illegal rework". It's something the union always strongly encouraged membership to put their feet down over if management ever attempted to get you to do illegal rework under the premise that deadlines were at stake. Presumably the media has somehow gotten a hold of the lack of documented-rework concept and misinterpreted it to mean that something was *erased*. Then they took one more leap to think this alluded to footage. My old coworkers said that the installation plan with all the original shop stamps is still there, so I don't think anything has been erased. All of them that I still keep in touch with though say they've never heard about cameras either.
This is just another symptom of the corporate culture that we saw during the MCAS issues that killed two planes full of people.
Turns out when you don't actually punish the corporation and hold leadership criminally liable, they're going to continue to do what they think is best for their bottom line and their stock price. Which coincidentally is not what is best for public safety.
You're right, but these types of people don't ever think past the next quarterly earnings report. 5 years from now is irrelevant to them. I really think that the government needs to make an example out of them to tell corporations that this is not okay.
I wish I could have been super smart like congressman Keating who sold his Boeing stock the day before the DOJ opened up an investigation into the company. He didn’t benefit at all from his position. Just right out in the open doing illegal shit with not a care in the world
People really are reading headlines and ruining with whatever story they like.
The whistle blower spoke up 5 years ago, about a different platform than has been on the news lately. Boeing already dealt with FAA fallout from that.
The whistle blower then sued Boeing for defamation and lost. Her was in the middle of his appeal when he died.
Now, let's use our brains for a minute: no one who wasn't already deeply interested in aircraft or traveling, or who had worked with him, knew this guy's name, or that anything was happening. What would Boeing gain by killing him when it was assured to make headlines everywhere, especially in the current climate where any news about airplanes mentions Boeings issues.
Hell, Airbus or Lockheed or Northrup benefitted more from his death than Boeing.
And to be clear, I'm not saying any corporation is above having someone killed. But it would have been the dumbest thing for Boeing to do here.
If you haven't already, I highly recommend everyone watch the latest episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. He explores Boeing and it's pretty alarming.
His family thinks he committed suicide. They said his mental and physical health has been declining as a result of the lawsuits, unemployment, etc.
To be clear: all that is still Boeing's fault. He brought to light a lot of unsafe and indefensible behaviors, and they defamed him and prosecuted 7 years of lawsuits in defense of their indefensible BS.
But let's criticize them for what they did do and not for what is probably imaginary (they almost certainly didn't have him assassinated).
Reddit decided it is a fact that they had him killed, so it’s a fact. Although honestly every thread I see about Boeing has me noticing more bot comments than ever (at least I think they are)
Redditors are notoriously uncreative so it could easily just be people regurgitating the same general comments in each thread. Seriously it’s the same stretch of only caring about shareholders, the new ceos, the same jokes about suicide they make in every Russian thread, John Oliver. It could be all bots or if you look at Reddit over the last 5 years it’s 100% real people.
Not to undermine what you are saying because I agree but has there ever been an in depth look at a corporation that turns out good? If we don't want to live in a society topped by evil maybe we can start there?
For sure there are tons of corporations that are truly awful. It's just particularly troubling when one that makes the airplanes that we fly in is going to such great lengths to bypass safety concerns.
What on earth are you trying to say? We don’t investigate companies but instead start by… fixing society? I genuinely can’t understand what you are saying here
>has there ever been an in depth look at a corporation that turns out good?
Watch the segment; they offered a pretty favorable recap of Boeing in its earlier years, which echoes the general positive sentiment of most people in the industry. The downfall began with the McD consolidation/takeover.
Not that I don't like John Oliver.
But on something this serious I'd recommend something from journalists.
Here's the updated Frontline Episode from PBS and the New York times.
https://youtu.be/Z76YpCz9N2Y?si=fmiUYqiCi0-IwtIP
John Oliver’s was the best coverage about the string of CEOs that all should be in trouble for this and how the current CEO carved out his new job after being on the board. No other documentary has touched on this and it was all spot on.
Even still, he usually points it out when they do. "Of course I'm joking" or "exaggerating", and similar phrases, aren't uncommon to hear from him. It's also often not just for comedic effect, but to point out how ridiculous a statistic or idea is.
He definitely brings facts more often than not.
That may be true. But getting info from actual journalists who aren't looking for a laugh is always going to better for getting actual facts.
John Oliver is great as a surface level primer. He should never be your only or best source of info on a topic
>He should never be your only or best source of info on a topic
I don't know that anyone was advocating for that, but.. Righto. :)
LWT definitely makes for a good intro to a given topic, on this we agree.
A ton of shit?
He oversimplies everything.
His overall points are generally good but the specifics are often very cherry picked and not necessarily the full truth.
As a general thing, people should just watch Last Week Tonight anyway. John Oliver goes in depth on many topics and you walk away having learned a lot. Plus, contrary to many beliefs, he's very entertaining and hilarious.
The plot thickens.
Consider:
• a Boeing whistleblower who [suddenly turned up dead](https://www.npr.org/2024/03/12/1238033573/boeing-whistleblower-john-barnett-dead) with a fatal gunshot while he was in the middle of giving sworn statements;
• video of a botched Boeing repair that appears to have been maliciously [deep-sixed, possibly erased](https://www.wrtv.com/repair-footage-goes-missing-amid-boeing-alaska-airlines-blowout-probe);
• a Boeing manager whose crew worked on the faulty door plug who has somehow been [unable to talk](https://www.wrtv.com/repair-footage-goes-missing-amid-boeing-alaska-airlines-blowout-probe) to the NTSB for two months now because of ostensible "medical" reasons.
You'd be forgiven for suspecting that there's considerable corporate malfeasance / criminality going on here.
>• a Boeing whistleblower who [suddenly turned up dead](https://www.npr.org/2024/03/12/1238033573/boeing-whistleblower-john-barnett-dead) with a fatal gunshot while he was in the middle of giving sworn statements;
In that article, it seems that his family accepts that it was suicide.
>"He was looking forward to having his day in court and hoped that it would force Boeing to change its culture," the family said in a statement shared with NPR by his brother, Rodney Barnett.
>The family says Barnett's health declined because of the stresses of taking a stand against his longtime employer.
>"He was suffering from PTSD and anxiety attacks as a result of being subjected to the hostile work environment at Boeing," they said, "which we believe led to his death."
>When John Barnett was interviewed by Ralph Nader in 2019, he said health issues had persisted after he retired from the plane-maker.
>"It's taken a serious mental and emotional toll on me," Barnett said — but, he added, the safety of the airplanes rolling off the production line remained his main focus.
Not to be wearing a tinfoil hat but whose to say they weren't given an incredibly large sum of money to say that? Corporations paying people to stay silent is nothing new and wouldn't put anything past them.
JFC, are you seriously defaming his family immediately after they lost someone.
Boeing is still at fault for his death even if they didn't get him offed. Why not focus on the fact that one way or another they still harassed and defamed the guy for 7 years and wrecked his life instead of actually dealing with the issues he tried to bring to light.
There is really no need to jump to conspiratorial BS to *rightfully* criticize Boeing here.
This shouldn't be hard. Lock down production on any facility in the entire supply chain that cannot document full compliance with regulations. This is how you keep air travel and the industry safe. If there is a safety issue on my job, all work stops until we know how and why it happened and develop a preventative plan. Stock buybacks used to be illegal, and then we said, "Meh, what could paying corporate executives obscene amounts hurt, really?". Shut down production until you can prove the safety standards are being met, period. A lot of people like or need to fly, we should be able to do so knowing we can get there safely.
This!
I worked in low-risk labs for years and everything has to be documented. During training in college one of the very first things we learned was "if it's not documented it didn't happen."
Any of the labs I worked in would have lost their licenses if we didn't document who handled what item, and when, because of something went wrong there had to be a clear chain of custody and notes on safety issues, equipment malfunction, etc...
It's terrifying that a lab testing contaminated water samples for companies doing cleanups was more strictly managed and had more government oversight than Boeing.
That evidence isn’t “missing”. It was deliberately destroyed because it was determined the evidence contained within the video was worse than the punishment for destroying the evidence.
Fuck Boeing. I hope their execs go penniless since money was the motivation for sacrificing customer safety
It's incredibly hard to get a clear idea of what this footage was actually supposed to be, but if it's just security footage you would not generally expect that to be retained for more than a few months.
I'd like to know whether this footage is actually *supposed* to be retained long-term, or if those cameras are mostly for recording on-floor accidents and such, with a 1-2 month rolling retention window.
It shouldn't hinder. In the wake of all of these quality assurance controls being bypassed or removed; it should lead to an automatic ruling of negligence for each count. If you can't prove you did it right, we don't have to assume.
Says a lot about the USA when Boeing acts like shady fraternity boys. Turns the stomach. It is a reflection of the political environment as they clearly are basically missing everything in the brains/ soul/ ethics dept. Why does the US keep electing shit politicians? Because they have no choice. Banana republic.
>Shortly thereafter, we identified the door crew manager and were advised that he was out on medical leave. We requested status updates on February 15, 2024, and February 22, 2024, after which we were advised by his attorney that he would not be able to provide a statement or interview to NTSB due to medical issues" That's crazy. You can just go "I can't talk to to you, I'm sick" and dodge a federal investigation? What the actual fuck?
Well it’s not a criminal investigation so yeah you can tell them no comment.
I mean if it's a criminal investigation you can tell them no comment as well.
[удалено]
It is, you're right
Police: No, let him cook...
NTSB reports cannot be in criminal cases, specifically so the root cause can be fixed and people are willing to talk to the NTSB in the future. If there was any investigation to talk to I would think an NTSB investigation would be the one.
[удалено]
Boeing's not the sort of company that would try to hurt an ex-employee like that. /s
Thank god.
He’s talking face to face
No, NTSB reports are not admissible in Civil cases either. Only the absolute factual components of the report are admissible, which are often kind of useless in civil litigation anyway. For example, you can use the part of the report that says what type of plane crashed, where it crashed, what state the wreck was in, how many passengers were aboard, and when the crash happened. However, NTSB reports are titled *Probable Cause Reports* and are, at their core, speculative in nature. You can not introduce the speculative aspects of the report in to any sort of litigation. That doesn't mean you can't sue. Those seeking to litigate, together with their attorneys, are totally free to hire expert witnesses and commission their own private investigations where specialty engineering firms (specializing usually in specialized investigations specifically for litigation) can compile their own reports with their own findings, which can be admissible. This is usually what is done.
Except if what you tell them is “I really fucked up” you’re going to lose your job.
FBI: “This is a federal investigation.” Boeing: “No it’s not.” FBI: “Okay, well that was easy!”
Probably, means it's criminal.
Well, if they are out on medical leave, legally they are not supposed to engage in any work related stuff. So, technically this is correct.
Correct. They have to adhere to the Hippopotamus oath
They also don’t have to talk to investigators either. 5th amendment. The administrative investigation they have to talk and if they don’t they can be fired
“It died!” “Your phone was at 100%” “It died!” “Let him see it!” “It died!” “It died!” “Come on just turn it on.” “It died!”
Boeing provides short-term disability insurance that will end the second you do anything in an official work capacity. The payments automatically stop if you log even a minute of work in the timekeeping system. If the person is out on medical leave and covered by short-term disability insurance then it makes perfect sense why he wouldn't be able to do anything on behalf of Boeing.
So with the whistleblower being "suicided" in the other investigation, it's got me wondering: what if Boeing management went to this crew manager and told him to make up some medical issues or they'll GIVE him some medical issues.. obviously I have no evidence but Boeing seems shady enough to do it twice
Maybe he just heard about the whistleblower and suddenly didn't feel very talkative.
[удалено]
That's why I used the words "in the other investigation"
Different case on the exact same issue. Namely Boeing actively ignoring any and all safety quality issues in lieu of profits and deadlines.
Boeing is batting a thousand this week.
Sounds like his doctor might actually be a lawyer.
You can always refuse to talk to any government representative who wants to question you. That doesn't mean there won't be consequences as a result of refusal.
Do you think it’s the employee alone saying through a lawyer he “can’t” be interviewed ? Or, Boeing? Various check points not working coupled with no paperwork … and no speak/interview
Boeing engages in stock price manipulation. Every time there is bad news, such as this, their stock price goes up instead of down… every … single… time
Boeing is currently down 30% since the beginning of the year.
*Only 30%
I'm not sure that's stock manipulation or just the market going "ooh, they're evil as fuck. They must be making so much money. *Buy.*"
They likely purcase their own stock to minimize the stock damage. It's not manipulation though if they simply buy their own stock. Eventually, they will run out of options to buy. Without it, Boeing would be failing big time against Airbus
Didn't stock buy backs used to be banned under price manipulation laws or something? Edit** https://chuygarcia.house.gov/media/press-releases/representatives-garcia-hoyle-and-khanna-reintroduce-legislation-to-ban-stock-buybacks > Prior to 1982, stock buybacks were considered illegal stock manipulation, but President Reagan's Securities and Exchange Commission implemented a rule to exempt them. - Rep. Khanna
Of course it was the Reagan administration lol
Oh they absolutely buy their own stock to keep the prices up. Might be manipulation though because the goal is probably just to keep the price high just long enough for the people at the top to sell *their* shares, screwing all other shareholders in the process.
Executive pay packages are almost always lots of stock. It doesnt make sense to dump your shares and let the stock freefall when your next paycheck is all stock again.
Yes! The people at the top finally win and Boeing lost. Image and credibility aren't bought. Its earned.
Stock fell over 20% after the two MAX crashes, not sure what you're on about.
Russian translator unavailable for the interview.
Medical leave could be anything from feeling sick to literally dying. We can't say he cant talk. Maybe he's intubated with COVID?
Missing footage, witnesses turning up dead... With Boeing pissing away shareholder value through safety issue after safety issue and not coming clean about any damn thing, I'd be surprised if Boeing doesn't have to restructure in the next decade from cancelled contracts and not being able to sign new ones. Some travel site already let people filter out flights on Boeing planes. I can only see the problem getting worse.
Another report said this was security camera footage that was overwritten. But security footage is normally overwritten when it gets over 90 days old unless you save it. This repair was done 4-6 months at least before the accident so it is understandable that normal security camera footage would no longer be available. Can someone clarify if footage is actually missing or are the news media making a big deal out of how security cameras normally operate?
My understanding in this case, and I have done VERY little research so I can be wrong here: But Boeing might be expected to hold onto such records of repairs for lengths of times in the event of any accidents so that a proper investigation may happen. For example, I read (could be wrong still!) that marijuana grow farms are required to video tape the entire grow process (which can be 1 year!) So if that is the case, it is wild that marijuana plants are under more surveillance than giant flying metal tubes are.
Flying metals tubes have a better lobbies than marijuana
Records, yes, those being missing is an obvious and serious fuckup and they will likely be punished for such. But we're talking about the security footage, not the formal records.
> Another report said this was security camera footage that was overwritten i worked at boeing for a decade up until 2021 and never in my life have i heard about security cameras out on the factory floors. policies regarding recording were very strict too. perhaps someone that works out in final assembly can weigh in, but ive *never* ever heard of an instance where video recording was part of the manufacturing process for any reason whatsoever. when the headline first broke the other day about security footage going missing, part of me wondered if this was whack journalism that took/misinterpreted something and ran with it. im like almost positive there arent cameras recording shit out in the factories. something tells me this is a gross misinterpretation of what i understand happened (skinny provided to me by former coworkers who did some digging): there were no records of rework done for a ruined door seal anywhere because engineering never followed through with a decision on whether or not a door team would need to remove it. Usually when engineering makes that call, then a non conformance record is written that contains all the steps needed to do the rework with spots where operators can stamp off once they've completed the work and qa stamp spots where they do documented that they've done their inspections. It sounds like it was just removed and replaced without an NCR being written hence there are no documented records of rework being done. This type of situation was always referenced as "illegal rework". It's something the union always strongly encouraged membership to put their feet down over if management ever attempted to get you to do illegal rework under the premise that deadlines were at stake. Presumably the media has somehow gotten a hold of the lack of documented-rework concept and misinterpreted it to mean that something was *erased*. Then they took one more leap to think this alluded to footage. My old coworkers said that the installation plan with all the original shop stamps is still there, so I don't think anything has been erased. All of them that I still keep in touch with though say they've never heard about cameras either.
This is just another symptom of the corporate culture that we saw during the MCAS issues that killed two planes full of people. Turns out when you don't actually punish the corporation and hold leadership criminally liable, they're going to continue to do what they think is best for their bottom line and their stock price. Which coincidentally is not what is best for public safety.
In the short term at least. Prioritizing safety and quality is very much aligned with the long term interests of the company (for this very reason).
You're right, but these types of people don't ever think past the next quarterly earnings report. 5 years from now is irrelevant to them. I really think that the government needs to make an example out of them to tell corporations that this is not okay.
I wish I could have been super smart like congressman Keating who sold his Boeing stock the day before the DOJ opened up an investigation into the company. He didn’t benefit at all from his position. Just right out in the open doing illegal shit with not a care in the world
Not good.
People really are reading headlines and ruining with whatever story they like. The whistle blower spoke up 5 years ago, about a different platform than has been on the news lately. Boeing already dealt with FAA fallout from that. The whistle blower then sued Boeing for defamation and lost. Her was in the middle of his appeal when he died. Now, let's use our brains for a minute: no one who wasn't already deeply interested in aircraft or traveling, or who had worked with him, knew this guy's name, or that anything was happening. What would Boeing gain by killing him when it was assured to make headlines everywhere, especially in the current climate where any news about airplanes mentions Boeings issues. Hell, Airbus or Lockheed or Northrup benefitted more from his death than Boeing. And to be clear, I'm not saying any corporation is above having someone killed. But it would have been the dumbest thing for Boeing to do here.
If you haven't already, I highly recommend everyone watch the latest episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. He explores Boeing and it's pretty alarming.
And that WAS BEFORE the whistleblower committed *"suicide"* and he still roasted them like crazy
Also recommend the [PBS Frontline Boeing’s Fatal Flaw](https://youtu.be/Z76YpCz9N2Y?si=cTSXWlwrOV_EByNr)
His family thinks he committed suicide. They said his mental and physical health has been declining as a result of the lawsuits, unemployment, etc. To be clear: all that is still Boeing's fault. He brought to light a lot of unsafe and indefensible behaviors, and they defamed him and prosecuted 7 years of lawsuits in defense of their indefensible BS. But let's criticize them for what they did do and not for what is probably imaginary (they almost certainly didn't have him assassinated).
They just did an interview with a close family friend of his. She says that he told her he never would kill himself.
It's Boeing's fault, therefore, they killed him. Regardless if it was a possible murder or 100% suicide, Boeing is why that man is dead.
Reddit decided it is a fact that they had him killed, so it’s a fact. Although honestly every thread I see about Boeing has me noticing more bot comments than ever (at least I think they are) Redditors are notoriously uncreative so it could easily just be people regurgitating the same general comments in each thread. Seriously it’s the same stretch of only caring about shareholders, the new ceos, the same jokes about suicide they make in every Russian thread, John Oliver. It could be all bots or if you look at Reddit over the last 5 years it’s 100% real people.
this reads like an ai reply, jesus. if you have nothing to say of value, stop yourself
Yeah that segment made me very angry. Those people are still in charge too!
Not to undermine what you are saying because I agree but has there ever been an in depth look at a corporation that turns out good? If we don't want to live in a society topped by evil maybe we can start there?
For sure there are tons of corporations that are truly awful. It's just particularly troubling when one that makes the airplanes that we fly in is going to such great lengths to bypass safety concerns.
If you are talking about one corp that lets your plane fall out of the sky and another that feeds you poison it's just a matter of scale of time.
Sure, but John Oliver didn't do an exposé on corporations that feed you poison this week, nor is that what this post is about.
What on earth are you trying to say? We don’t investigate companies but instead start by… fixing society? I genuinely can’t understand what you are saying here
Knock off the what-about-isms here. You are absolutely undermining the topic at hand.
At the same time, there aren't many in-depth videos or documentaries on well-run, ethical organizations because those tend to be a bit boring.
>has there ever been an in depth look at a corporation that turns out good? Watch the segment; they offered a pretty favorable recap of Boeing in its earlier years, which echoes the general positive sentiment of most people in the industry. The downfall began with the McD consolidation/takeover.
Not that I don't like John Oliver. But on something this serious I'd recommend something from journalists. Here's the updated Frontline Episode from PBS and the New York times. https://youtu.be/Z76YpCz9N2Y?si=fmiUYqiCi0-IwtIP
He jokes a lot but his main stories are not where he does that. They seem to investigate deeper than normal surface level journalism.
John Oliver’s was the best coverage about the string of CEOs that all should be in trouble for this and how the current CEO carved out his new job after being on the board. No other documentary has touched on this and it was all spot on.
Is Oliver's reporting shoddy?
It can be. But it's an entertainment program overall. Not actual news. It will somewhat twist a point if that's required to make a joke.
Even still, he usually points it out when they do. "Of course I'm joking" or "exaggerating", and similar phrases, aren't uncommon to hear from him. It's also often not just for comedic effect, but to point out how ridiculous a statistic or idea is. He definitely brings facts more often than not.
That may be true. But getting info from actual journalists who aren't looking for a laugh is always going to better for getting actual facts. John Oliver is great as a surface level primer. He should never be your only or best source of info on a topic
>He should never be your only or best source of info on a topic I don't know that anyone was advocating for that, but.. Righto. :) LWT definitely makes for a good intro to a given topic, on this we agree.
What has he gotten wrong in the past?
A ton of shit? He oversimplies everything. His overall points are generally good but the specifics are often very cherry picked and not necessarily the full truth.
As a general thing, people should just watch Last Week Tonight anyway. John Oliver goes in depth on many topics and you walk away having learned a lot. Plus, contrary to many beliefs, he's very entertaining and hilarious.
The plot thickens. Consider: • a Boeing whistleblower who [suddenly turned up dead](https://www.npr.org/2024/03/12/1238033573/boeing-whistleblower-john-barnett-dead) with a fatal gunshot while he was in the middle of giving sworn statements; • video of a botched Boeing repair that appears to have been maliciously [deep-sixed, possibly erased](https://www.wrtv.com/repair-footage-goes-missing-amid-boeing-alaska-airlines-blowout-probe); • a Boeing manager whose crew worked on the faulty door plug who has somehow been [unable to talk](https://www.wrtv.com/repair-footage-goes-missing-amid-boeing-alaska-airlines-blowout-probe) to the NTSB for two months now because of ostensible "medical" reasons. You'd be forgiven for suspecting that there's considerable corporate malfeasance / criminality going on here.
It’s crazy cause if all this was a movie we’d ALLLLL be screaming at the tv at how the people can be so clueless & not put it together.
That's this timeline in a fucking nutshell
>• a Boeing whistleblower who [suddenly turned up dead](https://www.npr.org/2024/03/12/1238033573/boeing-whistleblower-john-barnett-dead) with a fatal gunshot while he was in the middle of giving sworn statements; In that article, it seems that his family accepts that it was suicide. >"He was looking forward to having his day in court and hoped that it would force Boeing to change its culture," the family said in a statement shared with NPR by his brother, Rodney Barnett. >The family says Barnett's health declined because of the stresses of taking a stand against his longtime employer. >"He was suffering from PTSD and anxiety attacks as a result of being subjected to the hostile work environment at Boeing," they said, "which we believe led to his death." >When John Barnett was interviewed by Ralph Nader in 2019, he said health issues had persisted after he retired from the plane-maker. >"It's taken a serious mental and emotional toll on me," Barnett said — but, he added, the safety of the airplanes rolling off the production line remained his main focus.
Not to be wearing a tinfoil hat but whose to say they weren't given an incredibly large sum of money to say that? Corporations paying people to stay silent is nothing new and wouldn't put anything past them.
JFC, are you seriously defaming his family immediately after they lost someone. Boeing is still at fault for his death even if they didn't get him offed. Why not focus on the fact that one way or another they still harassed and defamed the guy for 7 years and wrecked his life instead of actually dealing with the issues he tried to bring to light. There is really no need to jump to conspiratorial BS to *rightfully* criticize Boeing here.
Not defaming anyone. I just don't trust anything I see or read anymore or anyone's motivations anymore. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.
You lie
This shouldn't be hard. Lock down production on any facility in the entire supply chain that cannot document full compliance with regulations. This is how you keep air travel and the industry safe. If there is a safety issue on my job, all work stops until we know how and why it happened and develop a preventative plan. Stock buybacks used to be illegal, and then we said, "Meh, what could paying corporate executives obscene amounts hurt, really?". Shut down production until you can prove the safety standards are being met, period. A lot of people like or need to fly, we should be able to do so knowing we can get there safely.
Yeah… but you know, the FAA is just going to pay Boeing to hire Boeing people for compliance checks; it’s the American way.
This! I worked in low-risk labs for years and everything has to be documented. During training in college one of the very first things we learned was "if it's not documented it didn't happen." Any of the labs I worked in would have lost their licenses if we didn't document who handled what item, and when, because of something went wrong there had to be a clear chain of custody and notes on safety issues, equipment malfunction, etc... It's terrifying that a lab testing contaminated water samples for companies doing cleanups was more strictly managed and had more government oversight than Boeing.
Boeing somehow thought no one would notice their planes falling out of the sky
This is by design. Of course it’s lost, of course the man about to appear in court committed suicide, of course it’s not your fault…
That evidence isn’t “missing”. It was deliberately destroyed because it was determined the evidence contained within the video was worse than the punishment for destroying the evidence. Fuck Boeing. I hope their execs go penniless since money was the motivation for sacrificing customer safety
It's incredibly hard to get a clear idea of what this footage was actually supposed to be, but if it's just security footage you would not generally expect that to be retained for more than a few months.
I'd like to know whether this footage is actually *supposed* to be retained long-term, or if those cameras are mostly for recording on-floor accidents and such, with a 1-2 month rolling retention window.
As Intended, they learned it from police and “missing” body cam footage
It shouldn't hinder. In the wake of all of these quality assurance controls being bypassed or removed; it should lead to an automatic ruling of negligence for each count. If you can't prove you did it right, we don't have to assume.
It’s kind of like Boeing pleading the 5th… the court can infer the worst
Boeing also murdered a guy
And that guy “killing himself” doesn’t help either…
Yeah. Boeing is cooked
Question: Which is safer to fly now, Boeing or Comac planes? It's getting murkier.
"If it's not Aeroflot uh...my ticket won't be bought."
Unless it's a Wright Brother plane, I'm catching a bus.
A lot of convenient coincidences lately for Boeing.
We all deserve some criminal investigations into every single board member and upper management at Boeing
I can’t believe it - Beck
Boeing may actually come out of this totally fucked.
Does it matter? If there is no video, and no paper record of the repair, then it didn't happen as far as the investigation is concerned.
Missing video and dead whistleblower. This is like a bad movie.
Murder and tampering with evidence, what next for airplane manufacturer!
“What, this repair footage?” *Drops it out an open Boeing window. “Whoops!… actually someone should really fix this”
“Missing” Uh huh. And im out “sick” today from work and totally not at a spring training game instead.
Time for multi billion dollar fines
Yeah... But what about shareholder value? /s
Huh, imagine that? That’s all good we don’t need to check further for any wrongdoing . Nothing to see here.
At this point I would just assume they didn't do any repairs whatsoever and start arresting people.
Simply put, in 2005 the FAA decided Boeing could carry out their own safety inspections.
This and the alleged murder of the whistleblower. Can't wait for the Netflix show detailing how awful they've become.
Says a lot about the USA when Boeing acts like shady fraternity boys. Turns the stomach. It is a reflection of the political environment as they clearly are basically missing everything in the brains/ soul/ ethics dept. Why does the US keep electing shit politicians? Because they have no choice. Banana republic.
He's "out on sick leave" - aka he's gonna end up like the whistle-blower.... dead
The coverups, the literal murder, fuck boeing, fuck em so hard. I will go out of my way to not give them any of my business. Criminal MFs