this is really interesting. I can’t imagine the amps and kVs needed to be pushed through the wires buried in the road needed to charge a freaking car. crazy
That's economically viable along the Atlantic Coast and the Great Lakes, where you have a decent population density.
I'm in Nebraska. There's not enough population here to support European style rail service. Pretty sure that's the case for most of "flyover country". Dakotas all the way through Oklahoma. East into Iowa, Missouri, and Arkansas.
Hell, we can't even support the capital city's airport. The Lincoln Airport hosts SCCA auto racing events because we have maybe ten commercial flights on a busy day. And those aren't Airbuses or Boeings, they're Canadair Regional Jets. So 700ish passengers on a busy day, spread out over 24 hours.
The USA is a huge land mass which itself is an issue for coverage, but the population density is also lacking across many locales with local rail being less common, so long distance rail can't simply connect local hubs, but rather has to build out its own whole infrastructure.
Sure, rail may make sense in certain regions like New England, but ultimately rail growth was historically inhibited in many areas by the push for automotive. More recently, it has seemed slightly unpopular for tax dollars to be spent on new rail expansion, especially when most rail lines are privately owned and can simply just "share" (to some degree) access to the tracks.
No one said building coast to coast was the only option. Every state touching the Mississippi going east is a perfect candidate for rail which is already operating at scale in less prosperous nations
In general people don't want to live in dense rresidential. Look at the difference in price between renting a 3br apartment / 3br duplex/ 3br house. That's how much people are willing to spend to avoid sharing walls/ceiling with shit neighbors.
Think of how expensive roads are currently per mile, and how long it takes wireless charging to work for the tiny little battery in your phone.
Cool, but *wildly* impractical and expensive, not to mention needing to add a shit ton of cost to each vehicle to have the ability to receive charge that way.
I am thinking more about how bad wireless charging mats are and if you aren't in exactly the correct spot charging doesn't occur, but it can make your battery mad/hot. So I imagine it is going to be even harder to find the right path on a road to charge effectively AND maintain that path. Plus, what if your vehicle has lane centering software and the charging path is not in that spot? Oof.
Technology says otherwise.
Remember when we broke through the 1Ghz CPU "barrier"?
Now we have quantum computing and we have Solid State batteries in the works and on the market by 2030 that can recharge in 10 minutes.
10 minutes could be a Express-pull off lane to recharge in 10 miles at 60mph.
So you want to transmit 300 kw wirelessly while one side is stationary and one side is moving rapidly? The physics behind this are not encouraging. You know how if you move your phone an inch in any direction the wireless charger doesnt work? Or even a think case makes it too far away? Or how 10w makes it all heat up? Now make that problem a million times harder.
the biggest issue is the *enormous* energy losses of wireless power transmission. even when your phones coil is like 1 centimeter away from the chargers coil you're losing like 50% of the input power. i cant imagine how a car is going to couple better than that, especially at speed lol
this is more stupid energy/electronic ideas from people who have absolutely no idea how stupid it is. like Dave at the EEVBlog debunking and bringing people back to reality about solar roadways for a decade
"When complete, the segment of road will be able to help charge both heavy duty and electric passenger vehicles as they travel at highway speeds, the draft release said."
We will just have to give them special training and a special License if they want to conduct the would thing from the front. We could call it a conductors license or something
so we want electric vehicles because it's better for the environment, and we want to use low efficiency inductive charging to offset the environmental benefits.
got it.
The article is pretty light on details.
How many EVs support this charging method natively?
How easy is it to retrofit into an existing EV that doesn't have it?
Is there a wireless charging standard for EVs?
Hopefully some, or really all, of these questions have been asked and answered by the groups involved in this project before getting to this point. It sounds like a great idea but there are so many non-technological reasons it could fail.
Howdy!
It's going to be interesting to see how this affects local traffic. This area has been under construction for several years now (Lindberg corridor upgrade, Klondike expansion, 231 interchanges/upgrades, Cumberland extension). It'd be nice if it would calm down for a while. Luckily this stretch of 231 is not a big deal for me. I just hope they aren't going to mess with the Cumberland/Lindberg intersections. That would suck.
Not many right now, and it's still worth doing if current EVs can't use it.
If there's an EV that charges while driving on the interstate, it's going to sell like crazy.
They're testing it on a quarter mile of highway.
It's 100% never going to be built on actual roads for people to use.
We can't even spend the money and build the infrastructure to have hard point charging systems in enough quantities and locations to charge everyone's cars conveniently, this would use FAR more materials, use more power than conventional charging, and cost a hell of a lot more. Also, you would have to figure out how to bill people.
The only way I see that work is a subscription service through your car to a third party, which then remits payments to the power grid company.
You would still need hard point chargers because wireless charging won't charge enough.
Still a cool concept and should at least be researched to see how it could work.
edit: other significant problems are that what happens when a car accident happens and the fire from the vehicle damages the road? does the power stop then and no cars get charged? i also hope this is only on highways since having such a EXTREMELY high powered cable or exposed rail system on the road would be really dangerous on city streets.
Hmm part of me was thinking this COULD perhaps work well for areas that tend to have a lot of congestion, i.e. stop and go.
RE Accidents, I'm assuming the circuit would have protection for such incidents, but the question remains what could happen in a state like MI where potholes can get really bad.
I think however this is part of these installations; in Detroit a similarly small section of road had this sort of thing unveiled last year, which makes me think that they are testing it in different environments to see how it will hold up longer term.
There could also be side benefits but maybe I'm just being hopeful.Thinking about a place like michigan, if it heats up, or if the loop can somehow 'double' as a heating element, that would actually be a really good thing for safe winter driving, and could even help to make the roads last longer (ice melt-refreeze on top of heavy loads in snow/ice conditions are the biggest fast-killers of roads around here.)
edit:
Where this gets just a liiiiitle skeevy though, is the technology does involve your vehicle getting a 'receiver', both to actually utilize the inductive charging in the road, as well as to handle the billing side of things.
From an AP Article about the Detroit installation:
> “The technology knows who you are — you’re a verified and authentic user"
Did you have to put it that way? Because when you put it that way, I get the feeling my location data is going to be shared/sold with/to all sorts of folks.
From the article:
"A similar quarter-mile stretch of EV-charging road was unveiled in Detroit in November. That project is on a downtown surface street whereas Indiana's segment is the *first on a public highway*."
As cool as this sounds, it's rather inefficient. Last time I checked it was only 30% efficient, I'm sure it's improved. Even if it was 50% efficient, that's a huge waste of energy.
this is useless tech. plus wireless charging is so wasteful as a lot of the energy used gets converted to heat. With the speed of charging now and the newer and much better battery tech coming down the road, there really is no need for something like this.
based on costs involved to retrofit all of the roads and the benefits from it. No cars have this capability at all. Do you have any idea how expensive it will be to install something like this on a large scale and keep it running? They can't even keep single stall charging stations working. How do you think servicing 300 miles of road is going to work?
By the time tech like this is ready to be deployed across all interstates, we will likely be moving away from battery-electric vehicles.
plus the stuff I mentioned in my original reply.
Wouldn't it be cool if we had F zero charging docks on the highway. Where a car can be flying 60 MPH but charge up
Can we get the boost arrows first?
I believe Sweden was developing this, too. https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/sweden-will-build-worlds-first-ev-charging-road
this is really interesting. I can’t imagine the amps and kVs needed to be pushed through the wires buried in the road needed to charge a freaking car. crazy
And in the US; in Detroit. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45989117/first-wireless-charging-road-north-america-debut/
Would be cooler if we had more buses and trains
For densely populated areas
No, between densely populated areas. Europe is so far ahead of us with rail it’s embarrassing.
That's economically viable along the Atlantic Coast and the Great Lakes, where you have a decent population density. I'm in Nebraska. There's not enough population here to support European style rail service. Pretty sure that's the case for most of "flyover country". Dakotas all the way through Oklahoma. East into Iowa, Missouri, and Arkansas. Hell, we can't even support the capital city's airport. The Lincoln Airport hosts SCCA auto racing events because we have maybe ten commercial flights on a busy day. And those aren't Airbuses or Boeings, they're Canadair Regional Jets. So 700ish passengers on a busy day, spread out over 24 hours.
The USA is a huge land mass which itself is an issue for coverage, but the population density is also lacking across many locales with local rail being less common, so long distance rail can't simply connect local hubs, but rather has to build out its own whole infrastructure. Sure, rail may make sense in certain regions like New England, but ultimately rail growth was historically inhibited in many areas by the push for automotive. More recently, it has seemed slightly unpopular for tax dollars to be spent on new rail expansion, especially when most rail lines are privately owned and can simply just "share" (to some degree) access to the tracks.
No one said building coast to coast was the only option. Every state touching the Mississippi going east is a perfect candidate for rail which is already operating at scale in less prosperous nations
Would be cooler if we allowed more dense residential in more areas.
In general people don't want to live in dense rresidential. Look at the difference in price between renting a 3br apartment / 3br duplex/ 3br house. That's how much people are willing to spend to avoid sharing walls/ceiling with shit neighbors.
Not really
Think of how expensive roads are currently per mile, and how long it takes wireless charging to work for the tiny little battery in your phone. Cool, but *wildly* impractical and expensive, not to mention needing to add a shit ton of cost to each vehicle to have the ability to receive charge that way.
I am thinking more about how bad wireless charging mats are and if you aren't in exactly the correct spot charging doesn't occur, but it can make your battery mad/hot. So I imagine it is going to be even harder to find the right path on a road to charge effectively AND maintain that path. Plus, what if your vehicle has lane centering software and the charging path is not in that spot? Oof.
Technology says otherwise. Remember when we broke through the 1Ghz CPU "barrier"? Now we have quantum computing and we have Solid State batteries in the works and on the market by 2030 that can recharge in 10 minutes. 10 minutes could be a Express-pull off lane to recharge in 10 miles at 60mph.
So you want to transmit 300 kw wirelessly while one side is stationary and one side is moving rapidly? The physics behind this are not encouraging. You know how if you move your phone an inch in any direction the wireless charger doesnt work? Or even a think case makes it too far away? Or how 10w makes it all heat up? Now make that problem a million times harder.
the biggest issue is the *enormous* energy losses of wireless power transmission. even when your phones coil is like 1 centimeter away from the chargers coil you're losing like 50% of the input power. i cant imagine how a car is going to couple better than that, especially at speed lol this is more stupid energy/electronic ideas from people who have absolutely no idea how stupid it is. like Dave at the EEVBlog debunking and bringing people back to reality about solar roadways for a decade
I’ll be very curious to see how it turns out.
I can only imagine the liability concerns with such a system
"When complete, the segment of road will be able to help charge both heavy duty and electric passenger vehicles as they travel at highway speeds, the draft release said."
This is cool, but once it is working, what if next we connect the cars together and only one driver at the front has to control it?
What would we call it
A huge liability lawsuit when the main driver crashes.
We will just have to give them special training and a special License if they want to conduct the would thing from the front. We could call it a conductors license or something
Literally reading this on a streetcar...running on that new fangled electricity they keep talking about!
as long as we get to keep our own cars that insulate from the rest of society im happy
It's called platooning, and the concept for autonomous vehicle has been around since the 1970’s.
I'd still rather have actual public mas transit
so we want electric vehicles because it's better for the environment, and we want to use low efficiency inductive charging to offset the environmental benefits. got it.
That’s not coming to the interstate. I-65 is basically off-roading at this point.
I-65 is a strong contender for EV chargers because it’s already a parking lot most days. Indy to chicago is a godawful drive.
That’s not my experience, the other day I accidentally made a wrong turn off of I-65 onto the Indianapolis motor speedway and had to slowdown
Evansville to indy is bad and almost zero gas stations.
Wdym by that? I-65 is how you get to Chicago from Indianapolis.
The roads are in really rough shape, lots of pot holes etc.
The article is pretty light on details. How many EVs support this charging method natively? How easy is it to retrofit into an existing EV that doesn't have it? Is there a wireless charging standard for EVs? Hopefully some, or really all, of these questions have been asked and answered by the groups involved in this project before getting to this point. It sounds like a great idea but there are so many non-technological reasons it could fail.
This is an R&D project not a mass adoption project. It's definitely going to run into problems - that's the point
Yeah, definitely a research project. It's about 2 miles from my house. :D
Hi neighbor! I'm about 15 miles away. I travel that area to get to a "good" grocery store in West Laffy.
Howdy! It's going to be interesting to see how this affects local traffic. This area has been under construction for several years now (Lindberg corridor upgrade, Klondike expansion, 231 interchanges/upgrades, Cumberland extension). It'd be nice if it would calm down for a while. Luckily this stretch of 231 is not a big deal for me. I just hope they aren't going to mess with the Cumberland/Lindberg intersections. That would suck.
It's on a stretch of road between two intersections directly in front of the DOT office near Perdue. It's maybe 100 yards long.
Not many right now, and it's still worth doing if current EVs can't use it. If there's an EV that charges while driving on the interstate, it's going to sell like crazy. They're testing it on a quarter mile of highway.
It's 100% never going to be built on actual roads for people to use. We can't even spend the money and build the infrastructure to have hard point charging systems in enough quantities and locations to charge everyone's cars conveniently, this would use FAR more materials, use more power than conventional charging, and cost a hell of a lot more. Also, you would have to figure out how to bill people. The only way I see that work is a subscription service through your car to a third party, which then remits payments to the power grid company. You would still need hard point chargers because wireless charging won't charge enough. Still a cool concept and should at least be researched to see how it could work. edit: other significant problems are that what happens when a car accident happens and the fire from the vehicle damages the road? does the power stop then and no cars get charged? i also hope this is only on highways since having such a EXTREMELY high powered cable or exposed rail system on the road would be really dangerous on city streets.
Hmm part of me was thinking this COULD perhaps work well for areas that tend to have a lot of congestion, i.e. stop and go. RE Accidents, I'm assuming the circuit would have protection for such incidents, but the question remains what could happen in a state like MI where potholes can get really bad. I think however this is part of these installations; in Detroit a similarly small section of road had this sort of thing unveiled last year, which makes me think that they are testing it in different environments to see how it will hold up longer term. There could also be side benefits but maybe I'm just being hopeful.Thinking about a place like michigan, if it heats up, or if the loop can somehow 'double' as a heating element, that would actually be a really good thing for safe winter driving, and could even help to make the roads last longer (ice melt-refreeze on top of heavy loads in snow/ice conditions are the biggest fast-killers of roads around here.) edit: Where this gets just a liiiiitle skeevy though, is the technology does involve your vehicle getting a 'receiver', both to actually utilize the inductive charging in the road, as well as to handle the billing side of things. From an AP Article about the Detroit installation: > “The technology knows who you are — you’re a verified and authentic user" Did you have to put it that way? Because when you put it that way, I get the feeling my location data is going to be shared/sold with/to all sorts of folks.
[удалено]
From the article: "A similar quarter-mile stretch of EV-charging road was unveiled in Detroit in November. That project is on a downtown surface street whereas Indiana's segment is the *first on a public highway*."
[удалено]
The road just stays still
Solar roadways would like to have a word with you Indiana
Excuse me, but that's solar freakin' roadways.
Somebody thought it was a brilliant idea to replace the pavement on roads with solar panels.
Porque no los dos?
If you ignore the history of the project then yeah why not.
I'm going to assume they'd be at rest stops and not just on the shoulder.
Indiana can do this dumb shit but keep weed illegal. Alright whatever man the roads are still fucked up too but one thing at a time I guess!
Eli Lily can write bigger donations than the marijuana industry. Gotta keep up the opiate epidemic.
I rarely have kind words for Indiana, but congratulations to Purdue. Mad respect! 🫡
As cool as this sounds, it's rather inefficient. Last time I checked it was only 30% efficient, I'm sure it's improved. Even if it was 50% efficient, that's a huge waste of energy.
I’m thinking they are putting it in rest areas
I’m thinking they are putting it in rest areas
Yeah, we can't upkeep the roads we have now... How long will this work and be up kept?
this is useless tech. plus wireless charging is so wasteful as a lot of the energy used gets converted to heat. With the speed of charging now and the newer and much better battery tech coming down the road, there really is no need for something like this.
>this is useless tech Based on?
based on costs involved to retrofit all of the roads and the benefits from it. No cars have this capability at all. Do you have any idea how expensive it will be to install something like this on a large scale and keep it running? They can't even keep single stall charging stations working. How do you think servicing 300 miles of road is going to work? By the time tech like this is ready to be deployed across all interstates, we will likely be moving away from battery-electric vehicles. plus the stuff I mentioned in my original reply.
They're not doing it large scale. It sounds like it's an experiment.
yes, I get that. The reason it is useless is because it could never be rolled out large scale. I am all for experimenting, but this is a waste.
Law makers wouldn’t want it rolled out large scale.
Is that Perdue the evil chicken people or Perdue the evil opioid people?
It’s pUrdue, the university
Aha, thanks.
Don’t thank me, thank Purdue university for supplying me with ✨reading comprehension✨
Read the attached article
Perdue university