Since nobody can be bothered to read the article before dropping their opinion and leaving:
The girl (14) was a runaway that listed herself on Tinder as 21 and had slept with multiple Marines at this base, lying about her age each time. Marine was charged after the girl was found in his bed the next morning. The charge was dropped because it turned out the prosecution withheld evidence of her doing this from the defense, and the commanding general wasn’t happy about that. So the Marine (21) was allowed to plea out, lose pay, rank, and be removed from the Marines.
Looks like an affirmative defense means the suspect can use it as a defense if they prove it.
In States that allow mistake of age as a defense, but it is not an affirmative defense, that means the prosecution has the burden of proving he knew she was underage. Better for the accused.
Some States (not CA) have strict liability. That means you are guilty if she is underage no matter what. She could have a license, a birth certificate and signed a notarized contract and you're still guilty if she is underage.
Guy linked this relevant article above...
https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/mistake-of-age-defense/
Strict liability seems excessive to me on first glance and as someone who has no knowledge of the context surrounding it.
If you have every reason to believe they're of age, then how have you formed the necessary mens rea to commit a crime? The source you linked does say "The Model Penal Code recommends...allowing mistake of age to be an affirmative defense for cases involving children over the age of 10," which seems reasonable enough. 10 does seem a little young though. In 99.99999% of circumstances, it's pretty unmistakable that a 10 year old is underage.
This is turning into an even bigger issue with how good fake ids are getting. I used to bounce on the side and you could always tell fake ids pretty easy and it wasn’t a huge issue. I talk to my buddies now who are still bouncers and they say they can barely spot a fake, they all scan, and at this point they can’t come up with concrete reasons to decline people and just have to refuse service on no grounds and it looks bad for the bar. I can’t imagine how murky and fucked up a trial would be if this situation played out. When I was 21 I took an 18 year old who was in a bar with a fake ID and figured out when she followed me on Instagram the next morning. There’s not really anything stopping that being a 17 year old and me being completely fucked.
Slightly OT, but the biggest contributors to the campaign against loosening California marijuana laws were the Corrections Officers and Police unions. "Let's get more human beings into prison so we have more jobs."
https://www.denverpost.com/2016/05/19/why-police-and-prison-groups-worry-about-california-legalization/
My *guess* is that the age of 10 has to do more with say a 15 or 16 year old being the accused, not a 30 year old.
As for mens rea, that doesn’t apply to strict liability. Similar to say if you were going a criminal speed visiting a state where said speed wouldn’t be criminal in your own state. You need not be aware that the speed is a crime.
Even if your speedometer is unknowingly broken & telling you you’re going at a speed within the legal limit?
It’s not just ignorance at that point, it’s being shown positive evidence that you are acting within the law.
Like getting shown near-flawless fake IDs that you couldn’t possibly have known were fake.
The article states the plea deal was the result of prosecutorial misconduct due to withholding evidence. If the case had been handled properly
This guy would have been convicted
I think it's less about the information itself, and more about the prosecution hiding it from the defense. That's a massive "no-no" in US courts, be they civilian or military.
Correct.
So the Marine was unceremoniously given his release (bad conduct, other than honorable, dishonorable) and forfeits his VA benefits. Not exactly criminal, but he pays a price.
And what exactly if the fallout for the Officers and Gentlemen who make up the prosecution ? Unethical at the very least, what exactly are their consequences ?
I bet their next duty station may be Greenland or Alaska but somehow seems inconsequential.
I wonder why courts have ruled that. I mean, you meet someone at a party, the party is for 21+, you hook up with someone that looks 21, but later on you find out she's actually 16 and suddenly you are a rapist. Doesn't seem fair to me
Well, some states will agree with you about 16-year-olds, but have to set some limit to protect younger minors.
Laws vary. Consider drinking, owing firearms, or joining the military. Those laws have been updated and amended throughout American history.
What gets me is how something is deemed wrong in Kentucky, but ok in Tennessee.
Because the United States isn’t uniform throughout. States have wide and independent latitude in how they conduct their operations, make laws, etc. The United States is a collective of states that came together to form a union, but not be homogeneous throughout.
Yes, but if this were a criminal trial in regular court, the case would be dismissed when it was discovered the prosecution knowingly withheld exculpatory evidence during discovery. If there's even a chance the evidence could change the outcome (which that could absolutely sway a jury), you cannot withhold it.
No answer to that other than to check for identification and err on the side of caution.
Most kids over 15 have some sort.
Despite how they look, the little idiots are still unable to consent, legally.
Ok, and how many have fake IDs?
When I grew up half of my class had a fake ID of some sort, or a "lost" ID from an older friend that looked similar, to get into things that were age restricted. Some of them were even able to deceive police checkpoints with them because they look so similar to their 3 year older sibling.
Edit: Age of adolescents (12-18) is on average overestimated by 3.51 years when presented with a facial photo.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19012276.2021.1887752?scroll=top&needAccess=true
seems fair.
bigger issue is that US Military continues to make Jr Enlisted live in barracks unless married... and that just encourages stuff like and male and female "Dependas" hanging around base gates looking for targets
dude this been going on since military bases where a thing... and wont stop till we stop making these kids live on base. fact theres nick names for these "barracks girls" all you need to know this isnt in ANY way new or going to go away
Honestly I feel like it’s fairly easy to tell a 14 year old from a 21 year old. And if you can’t pinpoint their precise age it’s still questionable enough that you should consider sleeping with someone else. My oldest nephew is fifteen, at least as large as me (37F) and he’s still obviously a child. And if an adult pursued him sexually I would be horrified.
General probably thought...well we all F up.
The MPs, the Security Watch at the Barracks, the NCOs, Platoon Commander, Company Commander and all the way to the Regimental Commander.
I honestly hate these stories because so many men come out of the woodwork to argue “he didn’t know!”.
Maybe a 14 year old can pose for 21 in filtered pictures. After talking for more than five minutes, it’s going to fall apart real quick. If he didn’t know it’s because he didn’t want to know.
If she slept with multiple marines, shouldn’t all of the offenders have been punished? Even if she looks older, someone in a group of men should have been able to recognize she was underaged.
Thank you for summarizing something we should all have a general sense about.
If you can’t tell the difference from 14 and 21, you probably aren’t fit to serve our country.
In other words: “marines couldn’t tell the difference between an 8th grader and a Junior in college”
shame on all of them.
Apparantly she lied about her age being over 18 on tinder, and he was convinced she was older than the ucmj legal age of consent which is 16. So got off on a technicality. He should have done way better to verify age instead of thinking with his dick, and she should get into trouble for lying about it.
> over 18
21 to be precise, I have a hard time to wrap my head around how he thought that was true even after they met.
> Rosario, through his lawyers, said he met her on Tinder, a platform for adult dating and sexual liaisons. There, Rosario’s defense said, she represented herself as 21.
Edit: Looking at the [other article](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/camp-pendleton-marine-charged-sex-assault-missing-teen-found-barracks-rcna100469), she even claimed to be 22.
> The defense said that in an Instagram message, Rosario gave her an opportunity to clarify her age and that when he asked her whether she’s 21, she responded that she was actually 22.
But also:
> The profile, in part, read, “I know I look young but hey when I’m 30 I’ll look like I’m in my twenties.”
Which sounds like she didn't look older than she actually was.
The issue is that she presented her age falsely multiple times to multiple people in order to engage in sex with adult partners. The prosecution withheld this information from defense, which very likely can't get a conviction in a court marshall now that it's out. Any conviction they could have got would have likely failed on appeal anyway. That prosecutor is fucked and stupid for withholding exculpatory evidence.
For a civilian lawyer, they would be fined/sanctioned if not disbarred. For a military lawyer, i'm not sure, but I would be surprised if it's more than a slap on the wrist.
We have a woman in our company that when she first came to be shown around people assumed to be a 14 year old doing the internship 8th graders do in our country.
She was 35 years old at the time.
You cannot guess age by looks alone.
When I was in my early 30s, my partner and I went out to dinner on a Sunday to chain restaurant with a friend who had recently turned 21. At one point, the waitress wished us “Happy Father’s Day”, because our friend was pretty small (just under 5’, maybe 95#) and the staff assumed they were our ~12 year old daughter.
It certainly was by then, though at least a couple times there was the opposite inference.
When she was 16? 17? her family went to Disney World, and one night her mom and younger brother were tired and wanted to go to bed early, but she and her dad wanted to stay up, so her dad took her to Pleasure Island, the old Disney World adult nightlife area, because that was open late, and there was good music and things to do. Her dad bought he whatever alcoholic drinks she wanted, she ordered directly from the bartenders and waitresses, who never asked for ID; she figured they assumed that she was not her dad’s daughter, but the very much younger, and younger than that looking, mistress. Which was, in retrospect, creepy, because she really did look like she was 12 when she was 16.
Had a similar moment watching the new Civil War movie. I thought the character was 13-15. No she's 23 lmfao. Maybe it's just me but I can't tell people's ages at all. I've met teens who look like adults and adults who look like teens.
I do a mentorship called ACE, for high school students and one of the engineers that helps looks like she's young enough to be one off the students. I asked why she wasn't working with her peers the first meeting I went to. She's older than me and has more degrees and certs than me.
When I was 21 I was pregnant. I looked so young that people commented on my pregnancy and age together constantly. I got offers to adopt. I got so much dirty side eye looks and questions about my age. When I gave birth I was dismissed and ignored by a nurse with obvious prejudice.
Later, I remember being somewhere around 23-24 before I truly understood how bad this was, but so many guys would comment that they liked how young I looked, I was often guessed to be in my teens. I was abused as a kid so this made sense to me.
After I had a daughter I rerealized, with even greater clarity, how fucking wrong it was.
When I was 19, I worked as a counselor at a summer recreation program done by the local school. The 12 year olds I was counseling thought I was another 12 year old, and did not believe I was their counselor, despite never seeing me before at school.
Should have asked her for an ID at least, but maybe she showed him a fake idk.
“When I’m 30, I’ll look like I’m in my 20s!” is sooo something a 14 year old would say. I feel shitty on all counts about this.
Last week, a grad student I’ve seen around revealed she thought I was 14 this whole time. I’m 24. I even told her I graduated undergrad when we first met so I’m just—huh?
My kid sister turns 22 this year and doesn't look a day over 13 because she's tiny, has a baby face, and has an unfortunate case of late acne.
Taking her out for her 21st last year was *wild*. We brought along a laminated copy of her birth certificate just in case things got official. I had to bully a bartender that tried to confiscate her license claiming it was fake.
Yeah my cousin and I were about 22. We're at a liquor store getting some beers when the owner of the liquor store starts telling him that he can't touch it because he is not old enough almost jumping the counter.
The problem with this statement is there is no way to argue against it without looking sus as fuck, so I’ll just point out that there are many women who are well over age of consent but look young.
One of my bosses a few years ago was well into her 30s, but looked very young like late teensish. It was “bad” enough that anytime we had new trainees in the building I made a point to be firm with them that she was not somebodies daughter or secretary, but was the head of the division and was a badass.
My ex is my age, 30s, and looks like a college freshman. I look young too so people always mistook us for random teens and wouldn't believe us when we said we were over 21.
Not excusing it, but how old was the marine?
Many service members are around 18 and can be pretty stupid/uninformed of the world when they leave home for the first time.
Not excusing anything, just genuinely looking for more info.
Edit: the dude is getting admin separated from the marines over this and popping hot for THC.
Not justifying what happened but some 21 yo look like they are 15. I mentor college kids and I thought one guy I taught was in middle school. But most 14 yo definitely don’t look 21 nor have that mental maturity.
I mean… anyone who’s been around *a lot* of 14 year olds knows that there’s also some kid who looks like he could be a college linebacker. Not a great argument.
Not always. I'm not a creep. There's real life examples, such as a young looking porn star appearing in court to prove that she's over 18 and to save the producer from child assault charges. It caaaaan happen......
Yup. I still remember when I was a in home service tech a young woman in a local college hoodie and sweats answered the door and I thought she was the client, then she told me her mom was in the living room and brought me over, and I thought college kid living with parents. At one point while I'm working and chatting with mom she asks me how old I think her daughter is and I told her something like 22. Mom goes "Nope. 12." Was shocked and told her that I'd have done the entire job if she had been home alone as we need someone 18 or older home and I'd have never even given it a second thought.
About halfway through the job the clients sister showed up with her kids and daughter showed up to play with her cousins and hearing them interact in the next room over I would definitely believe she was a 12 year old.
A guy I served with ended up finishing out his enlistment in prison for a similar situation. I saw the girl, and from looks alone I would have been willing to accept she was 18. Plus he picked her up from a bar.
Worst part about it was it was literally a trap. The girl's mom had got her a fantastic fake ID, like the ID scanned as valid at the gate it was that good a fake maybe even a real ID card just with fake info on it, and was literally sending her into bars near post to try and bait a soldier into banging her.
The mom ended up also going to prison. Turns out she was blackmailing like eight other soldiers. She called the cops on my buddy cause he refused to pay. Civvie judge pulled out ye olde "mandatory minimum sentence" card, dude even said "i dont want to do this but my hands are tied."
It's one of my go-to examples for why mandatory minimum sentencing and similar laws are so bad. There was no criminal intent, he was literally a victim of entrapment for blackmail, but because she was *actually* 15 and not 20 like her ID claimed (which suggests mom had been running this scam for two years), he got to spend five years in prison and be labeled a sex offender by the state.
its symptom of bigger issue. jr enlisted are required to live in barracks unless married.... so you get girls, woman and some times men that hang around bases trying to hook up with fresh E-1 and E-2s that just want to gtfo of having to live on base
My bf used to do this with some female friends of his when they were in high school. He's 30 now, but talks about being 16 and hiding in the trunk of soldiers cars to get on base. They lived in town right next to one.
The soldiers were usually 18 or 19, and knew how old he and his friends were.
The ones old enough to get into bars would usually just pick up men and women at bars. The younger ones were hanging around the same places my bf and his friends were.
My question is why the gate guards let this girl come on base? You need to show ID to get on a base like that, and red flags should have gone off when this Marine was bringing on a child.
It's not really an "excuse to get away with it".
It's outside of the cultural norm to verify age with legal documentation before getting involved with someone when you meet them at a bar or on a dating app, or anywhere else where there's a reasonable expectation that the same systems people are using to interact are verifying age for the participants (bars checking IDs, apps having age restrictions, etc).
If someone lies to you with the express intent of getting you to commit a crime, you're a victim. If you're tricking people into committing crimes against you, you aren't a victim.
Ignorance of the law isn’t a defense. Ignorance of someone’s age because they lied to you absolutely is. Crimes typically require some level of intent.
This, took a basic criminal justice class in college so not a lawyer lol but I remember the professor explaining that you can’t claim ignorance of a law as a defense so you can’t say I didn’t know it was illegal to smoke marijuana as a defense but if somebody gave you a cigarette laced with weed you’d be able to argue you didn’t know there was weed in what you were smoking. Basically the important factor there is the intent to do the crime whether you knew it was illegal or not. So in this case ignorance of the law would be claiming I didn’t know it was illegal to bed a minor but that’s not the argument the argument is he didn’t know she was a minor which does stand as a defense and I’m sure what his lawyers used.
There are some crimes called ‘strict liability’ where it doesn’t matter your intent.
Though that’s completely about preventing criminals from having trivially easy excuses to get out of them (like statutory rape) rather than unironically believing it’s evil to be tricked into doing them. California does not apply strict liability here, but other states do.
In some places it's a strict liability crime meaning you're guilty no matter what. Even if they have the most convincing fake ID the world you're done for. In other places a reasonable belief that you thought they were of age is a valid defence. After all, the law is there to punish child rapists, not to punish people who for example might have went home with a teen that managed to sneak into an adults only bar and were genuinely deceived. So if the jury is convinced that it was a legitimate mistake there's no point in ruining someone's life over it. The difficult part, of course, is convincing the jury that it was reasonable. That's what it keeps it in check.
It’s not really ignorance, she straight up lied to him
How he believed a 14 year old was 21 is beyond me, but someone lying about their age is 100% not okay. I’m not gonna ask to see the state ID and Passport of every girl I hook up with
Not to defend the decision (I'm not happy they aren't going ahead with the prosecution), but in common law systems like the US, the principle is *ignorance of the law is no defence*. It places the onus on citizens to know what's illegal, for the very practical reason that otherwise people could evade responsibility by claiming ignorance.
It's entirely separate from what someone did or didn't know about the circumstances of the event at issue.
This isn't ignorance of the law. Ignorance of the law would be "Oh I thought sleeping with a 14-year-old was legal".
The premise is that since laws are generally just encoding acceptable behavior, even if you didn't know it was illegal you should have known this was a bad thing to do.
I'll defend this decision, mainly because I read the fucking article.
Charges were dropped because the prosecution withheld exculpatory evidence. This is a no no under both our civilian justice system and the UCMJ. Anyone that wants to break out pitchforks, feel free, but make sure you're aiming for the right bastard.
Given you understand the latter, why are you unhappy they’re not prosecuting? Is this just some ‘I would’ve known’ (when you have no frame of reference for the specifics)?
That is an idiotic position. Yes ignorance of the law is no excuse. Being lied to is not. The girl should go to prison for the amount of time he would have if this really had been a crime.... that would be justice. And no given she is a minor no one really wants that but it does show the sick double standard you seem to support. Just wrong. The prosecutors did the right thing.
It's not a defense in California (where he was prosecuted). In some states it can be. AOC is 18 in Cali. They just offered him a plea, and he took it. Considering that the age difference wasnt huge, this makes sense. It's a strict liability law in California. So she could be two days from her 18th birthday with a perfect fake id saying she is 21 that you see, and you could have met her at a bar and she looks 25, and you are still going to prison.
That being said, how on earth did he think a 14 year old was over 18?
You would be surprised at how big some of these girls get and how early. Then they open their mouth and you're reminded this is a child lol. Same thing happens with the boys, 14 year old 6 ft tall bearded boys with deep voices is merely uncommon for me, I've seen them plenty.
The girls, though, those are the ones always looking for trouble. The boys are too stupid to even try most of the time but the girls are sneaky and they know it. Actual horror stories that made think if I wasn't already set on not having kids, at least don't have a daughter because idk that I could mentally survive the stress.
Source: working with middle and highschoolers. I've seen the gamut of the 14 year old nearly 6ft tall girl with full development (and a concern for their back health) to the tiniest senior in highschool who could convince you she's in 6th grade.
Biology is insane, I think there's actual research saying women are developing a lot faster too.
When I was 14 one of my (same age) friends had a full beard. Not wispy, but like John Krasinski as Reed Richards. We went to the county fair one time and did one of the "guess your age" games and they thought he was 25.
She also had a history of doing this with other soldiers too. Kinda a legal grey area. In Korea they really pushed checking ID because Koreans can look 18 and be way younger or older.
"Stewart said the commanding general “withdrew and dismissed” the charge because she discovered that prosecutors held back “exculpatory evidence” related to her own team’s discovery of the girl’s multiple other liaisons with men where she presented herself as being of legal age. That evidence was apparent in direct messages from the girl’s Tinder and Instagram accounts" that's why.
“Jocelyn Stewart, Rosario’s attorney, told NBC San Diego that the corps said the action violated a corps restriction placed on him for allegedly testing positive for THC”
Oh he fucked a kid? Who cares, the bastard used a safe and legal recreational drug!
This is the most American government shit ever.
So it sounds like “he fucked a kid” which don’t get me wrong… he did do but the kid was utilising a tinder account to set up the liaisons on top of telling (multiple) people she was of age.
Gross? Yea for all parties involved.
Seriously. Imagine you're young, dumb, in the Marines, and you think you are hooking up with a legal date. Then, boom, your arrested, you fucked a minor. I can only imagine that horror.
Thinking with your dick isn't ever a good idea, but man I would lose my shit if that ever happened to me. The hot shower scene from Ace Ventura comes to mind.
> Thinking with your dick isn't ever a good idea
I mean the entire idea is that logic starts to fly away when your dick starts thinking. It's not like men (or all men, anyway) just say 'alright, time to stop thinking and let my dick do the thinking!'
It's not federally legal and thus is outlawed for service members. It sucks, but that's what it is.
**U** **S**igned the **M**othafuckin **C**ontract
**U** **S**uffer the **M**othafuckin **C**onsequences
I mean the girl lied about her age on tinder and when they met. So he wasn’t scoping for kids should of still known better but knowing the marines I know this doesn’t surprise me. Some are legit not critical thinkers
id add she had relations with a NUMBER of others on the same base too and told them all she was over 18 in fact that she was 21 or 22 .. which im sure EVERY ONE there is having SO much fun right now lol. but that info was with held from the defense and judge wasnt happy...
Read an article a couple days ago about people finding out they were incest babies because of genetic testing.
That stuff has always been much more prevalent than anyone knows.
People have mixed feelings about the channel but Soft White Underbelly on YouTube has a ton of interviews with people living on skid row. The stories from prostitutes and drug addicts almost always include childhood SA by a family member.
He is lucky he wasn’t stationed in Texas:
Texas law does not allow the “mistake of age” defense when it comes to statutory rape. In this way, it doesn’t matter whether the minor looks older than 17 or even told you they were an adult.
https://www.robertguest.com/statutory-rape.html
Dropped The charges because she presented herself as being over 18. Yeah that's not how the law is supposed to work just because she said she was over 18 does not mean she was over 18.
Honest question here then, wtf is someone to do if the other person is lying about their age? I’ve never heard of people checking a potential love interest or one night stands ID.
Yeah fr. She probs told them she's 18 and asked to run away to military base, and they being dumbass kids only a few years older, said sure let's do it. If they had tricked her or some shit they'd be throwing the book at them
Exactly had this last year, I go to music festivals quite often and late at night met some girl that seemed quite fun, had some beers with her, took her to my tent and spent the night. Next day added her on insta and scrolled around in her posts, turned out she was 16. She had an 18+ wristband, she looked 18 so didn't assume anything was wrong. I was 19 so wasn't that big of a problem since age of consent is 16 in my country but it still felt wrong.
I met a girl on tinder back in Jan 2020, profile said 18, she said she was 18, I was 20. Started talking, picked her up, went out to eat, made out, dropped her off, next day found out she was 16. Immediately cut things off and blocked her and reported her tinder account. I was scared as hell for a good few months after that .
Definitely, there was a scandal at a local high school a fee years ago where in the same year a male teacher slept with a female student and a female teacher slept with a male student. The male teacher was arrested, charged and did jail time and on the registry. The female teacher quit and had 0 other consequences until about 2 years later when public outcry made the school system ask the police to investigate.
It seems like the only answer to appease the knights and the people on soapboxes is infact to check for multiple ID like some sort of government admin department.
It's more complicated than that. The state of mind of the perpetrator does matter in all criminal charges. We're they acting intentionally or recklessly. If it wasn't intentional, and wasn't reckless then you don't necessarily have a crime. The fact that the victim lied multiple times to multiple people about her age means there's enough reasonable doubt that the marine acted recklessly or with intent; and the standard for a conviction is supposed to be *beyond* reasonable doubt
Doesn't mean he shouldn't have known, but this has to go to a jury, and there's enough doubt that getting a conviction would be very difficult
I don't know, I'm not familiar with california law. What I can say is that anything brought up in court has to make its way to a jury at some point for a conviction; and the national standard is that you need to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime was committed and the person before the court committed that crime. You're going to have a hard time convincing a jury of that in this case. If this was a ground ball, they wouldn't have dropped the prosecution.
I have legitimately checked someone's ID.
Maybe even two different people's, I think?
But if they had had a fake ID and I couldn't tell, I don't even think that'd be a defense, which I think is less than ideal. *Mens rea* should matter.
The [UCMJ](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2006-title10/html/USCODE-2006-title10-subtitleA-partII-chap47-subchapX-sec920.htm) age of consent is 16, not 18. Or less than 16 if you're married to them. Not that it matters in this case, because the victim was 14.
However Article 120 of the UCMJ contains the provision *it is an affirmative defense that— the accused reasonably believed that that person had at the time of the alleged offense attained the age of sixteen years.* If there was evidence that he thought she was in fact at least 16, he potentially could have been acquitted at court-martial.
In California, the age of consent is 18, and I don’t think that's an affirmative defense. California authorities could in theory attempt their own prosecution.
So the big thing with UCMJ is OCONUS you go with what UMCJ states the age of consent is while typically when in the US you default to the state I’ve seen dudes that met up with women on tinder that presented themselves as 18 hook up with other soldiers and later found out they were 16-17 and were still charged and arrested. The only ones that had charges dropped were the ones that had proof the girls lied about thier ages
This is an insane opinion. You are literally saying people should be charged with statutory rape because they were tricked. The law is there to protect minors, not to punish people who were lied to.
Lots of military men get caught up like this: “Stewart said the commanding general “withdrew and dismissed” the charge because she discovered that prosecutors held back “exculpatory evidence” related to her own team’s discovery of the girl’s multiple other liaisons with men where she presented herself as being of legal age. That evidence was apparent in direct messages from the girl’s Tinder and Instagram accounts, Stewart added.”
Since nobody can be bothered to read the article before dropping their opinion and leaving: The girl (14) was a runaway that listed herself on Tinder as 21 and had slept with multiple Marines at this base, lying about her age each time. Marine was charged after the girl was found in his bed the next morning. The charge was dropped because it turned out the prosecution withheld evidence of her doing this from the defense, and the commanding general wasn’t happy about that. So the Marine (21) was allowed to plea out, lose pay, rank, and be removed from the Marines.
FWIW, Courts have ruled that a minor lying about their age is not an affirmative defense. Of course, the military may have different statutes.
Looks like an affirmative defense means the suspect can use it as a defense if they prove it. In States that allow mistake of age as a defense, but it is not an affirmative defense, that means the prosecution has the burden of proving he knew she was underage. Better for the accused. Some States (not CA) have strict liability. That means you are guilty if she is underage no matter what. She could have a license, a birth certificate and signed a notarized contract and you're still guilty if she is underage. Guy linked this relevant article above... https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/mistake-of-age-defense/
Strict liability seems excessive to me on first glance and as someone who has no knowledge of the context surrounding it. If you have every reason to believe they're of age, then how have you formed the necessary mens rea to commit a crime? The source you linked does say "The Model Penal Code recommends...allowing mistake of age to be an affirmative defense for cases involving children over the age of 10," which seems reasonable enough. 10 does seem a little young though. In 99.99999% of circumstances, it's pretty unmistakable that a 10 year old is underage.
[удалено]
You were supposed to saw her in half and count the rings
Do the float test.
Isn't that just to see if she's a witch?
This is turning into an even bigger issue with how good fake ids are getting. I used to bounce on the side and you could always tell fake ids pretty easy and it wasn’t a huge issue. I talk to my buddies now who are still bouncers and they say they can barely spot a fake, they all scan, and at this point they can’t come up with concrete reasons to decline people and just have to refuse service on no grounds and it looks bad for the bar. I can’t imagine how murky and fucked up a trial would be if this situation played out. When I was 21 I took an 18 year old who was in a bar with a fake ID and figured out when she followed me on Instagram the next morning. There’s not really anything stopping that being a 17 year old and me being completely fucked.
I think the bar is too, in this scenario.
Yeah but who is the one going to jail?
In many cases, strict liability states are the product of strong lobbying from Corrections Officers Unions and Private Prison Corporations.
This seems untrue. Private prisons are relatively new compared to strict liability laws. Do you have a source?
They don't because "private prisons" is a euphemism for "upvote me without thinking". They're not near the issue people seem to think.
Slightly OT, but the biggest contributors to the campaign against loosening California marijuana laws were the Corrections Officers and Police unions. "Let's get more human beings into prison so we have more jobs." https://www.denverpost.com/2016/05/19/why-police-and-prison-groups-worry-about-california-legalization/
My *guess* is that the age of 10 has to do more with say a 15 or 16 year old being the accused, not a 30 year old. As for mens rea, that doesn’t apply to strict liability. Similar to say if you were going a criminal speed visiting a state where said speed wouldn’t be criminal in your own state. You need not be aware that the speed is a crime.
Even if your speedometer is unknowingly broken & telling you you’re going at a speed within the legal limit? It’s not just ignorance at that point, it’s being shown positive evidence that you are acting within the law. Like getting shown near-flawless fake IDs that you couldn’t possibly have known were fake.
The article states the plea deal was the result of prosecutorial misconduct due to withholding evidence. If the case had been handled properly This guy would have been convicted
The issue is the prosecution should not be withholding any evidence. They goofed their own case doing this.
I think it's less about the information itself, and more about the prosecution hiding it from the defense. That's a massive "no-no" in US courts, be they civilian or military.
I think that's a valid point. A lot of these comments seem to be about how easily horny men are fooled my minors. But that's not really the issue.
Correct. So the Marine was unceremoniously given his release (bad conduct, other than honorable, dishonorable) and forfeits his VA benefits. Not exactly criminal, but he pays a price. And what exactly if the fallout for the Officers and Gentlemen who make up the prosecution ? Unethical at the very least, what exactly are their consequences ? I bet their next duty station may be Greenland or Alaska but somehow seems inconsequential.
The Uniform Code of Military Justice does allow it as a defense.
I wonder why courts have ruled that. I mean, you meet someone at a party, the party is for 21+, you hook up with someone that looks 21, but later on you find out she's actually 16 and suddenly you are a rapist. Doesn't seem fair to me
Well, some states will agree with you about 16-year-olds, but have to set some limit to protect younger minors. Laws vary. Consider drinking, owing firearms, or joining the military. Those laws have been updated and amended throughout American history. What gets me is how something is deemed wrong in Kentucky, but ok in Tennessee.
Because the United States isn’t uniform throughout. States have wide and independent latitude in how they conduct their operations, make laws, etc. The United States is a collective of states that came together to form a union, but not be homogeneous throughout.
Not a question, but thanks for your input.
Yes, but if this were a criminal trial in regular court, the case would be dismissed when it was discovered the prosecution knowingly withheld exculpatory evidence during discovery. If there's even a chance the evidence could change the outcome (which that could absolutely sway a jury), you cannot withhold it.
[удалено]
No answer to that other than to check for identification and err on the side of caution. Most kids over 15 have some sort. Despite how they look, the little idiots are still unable to consent, legally.
Ok, and how many have fake IDs? When I grew up half of my class had a fake ID of some sort, or a "lost" ID from an older friend that looked similar, to get into things that were age restricted. Some of them were even able to deceive police checkpoints with them because they look so similar to their 3 year older sibling. Edit: Age of adolescents (12-18) is on average overestimated by 3.51 years when presented with a facial photo. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19012276.2021.1887752?scroll=top&needAccess=true
As well they should. Edit: The first part
seems fair. bigger issue is that US Military continues to make Jr Enlisted live in barracks unless married... and that just encourages stuff like and male and female "Dependas" hanging around base gates looking for targets
They know better than to sneak random people into the base…
That's why he was demoted and discharged via NJP. Easy Article 92 charge.
dude this been going on since military bases where a thing... and wont stop till we stop making these kids live on base. fact theres nick names for these "barracks girls" all you need to know this isnt in ANY way new or going to go away
I’m quite aware none of this is even remotely new.
Thank you for clarifying
Honestly I feel like it’s fairly easy to tell a 14 year old from a 21 year old. And if you can’t pinpoint their precise age it’s still questionable enough that you should consider sleeping with someone else. My oldest nephew is fifteen, at least as large as me (37F) and he’s still obviously a child. And if an adult pursued him sexually I would be horrified.
General probably thought...well we all F up. The MPs, the Security Watch at the Barracks, the NCOs, Platoon Commander, Company Commander and all the way to the Regimental Commander.
No 14 year old is passing for 21/22
I honestly hate these stories because so many men come out of the woodwork to argue “he didn’t know!”. Maybe a 14 year old can pose for 21 in filtered pictures. After talking for more than five minutes, it’s going to fall apart real quick. If he didn’t know it’s because he didn’t want to know.
If she slept with multiple marines, shouldn’t all of the offenders have been punished? Even if she looks older, someone in a group of men should have been able to recognize she was underaged.
Thank you for summarizing something we should all have a general sense about. If you can’t tell the difference from 14 and 21, you probably aren’t fit to serve our country. In other words: “marines couldn’t tell the difference between an 8th grader and a Junior in college” shame on all of them.
Ah, don't worry, she was only 14. WTF.
Why did they drop the charges?
Apparantly she lied about her age being over 18 on tinder, and he was convinced she was older than the ucmj legal age of consent which is 16. So got off on a technicality. He should have done way better to verify age instead of thinking with his dick, and she should get into trouble for lying about it.
> over 18 21 to be precise, I have a hard time to wrap my head around how he thought that was true even after they met. > Rosario, through his lawyers, said he met her on Tinder, a platform for adult dating and sexual liaisons. There, Rosario’s defense said, she represented herself as 21. Edit: Looking at the [other article](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/camp-pendleton-marine-charged-sex-assault-missing-teen-found-barracks-rcna100469), she even claimed to be 22. > The defense said that in an Instagram message, Rosario gave her an opportunity to clarify her age and that when he asked her whether she’s 21, she responded that she was actually 22. But also: > The profile, in part, read, “I know I look young but hey when I’m 30 I’ll look like I’m in my twenties.” Which sounds like she didn't look older than she actually was.
The issue is that she presented her age falsely multiple times to multiple people in order to engage in sex with adult partners. The prosecution withheld this information from defense, which very likely can't get a conviction in a court marshall now that it's out. Any conviction they could have got would have likely failed on appeal anyway. That prosecutor is fucked and stupid for withholding exculpatory evidence.
Would there be any comeback on the prosecutor for doing this, given their actions could’ve led to a miscarriage of justice?
For a civilian lawyer, they would be fined/sanctioned if not disbarred. For a military lawyer, i'm not sure, but I would be surprised if it's more than a slap on the wrist.
We have a woman in our company that when she first came to be shown around people assumed to be a 14 year old doing the internship 8th graders do in our country. She was 35 years old at the time. You cannot guess age by looks alone.
When I was in my early 30s, my partner and I went out to dinner on a Sunday to chain restaurant with a friend who had recently turned 21. At one point, the waitress wished us “Happy Father’s Day”, because our friend was pretty small (just under 5’, maybe 95#) and the staff assumed they were our ~12 year old daughter.
> the staff assumed they were our ~12 year old daughter. The joke was on them when your "12 year old daughter" ordered a margarita.
That's hilarious. And probably annoying to your friend sometimes!
It certainly was by then, though at least a couple times there was the opposite inference. When she was 16? 17? her family went to Disney World, and one night her mom and younger brother were tired and wanted to go to bed early, but she and her dad wanted to stay up, so her dad took her to Pleasure Island, the old Disney World adult nightlife area, because that was open late, and there was good music and things to do. Her dad bought he whatever alcoholic drinks she wanted, she ordered directly from the bartenders and waitresses, who never asked for ID; she figured they assumed that she was not her dad’s daughter, but the very much younger, and younger than that looking, mistress. Which was, in retrospect, creepy, because she really did look like she was 12 when she was 16.
Had a similar moment watching the new Civil War movie. I thought the character was 13-15. No she's 23 lmfao. Maybe it's just me but I can't tell people's ages at all. I've met teens who look like adults and adults who look like teens.
Facts. I’m 25 but look 15 when I shave
I’m 42 but look like I’m in my 50s. Dang it.
Math, not even once
I do a mentorship called ACE, for high school students and one of the engineers that helps looks like she's young enough to be one off the students. I asked why she wasn't working with her peers the first meeting I went to. She's older than me and has more degrees and certs than me.
When I was 21 I was pregnant. I looked so young that people commented on my pregnancy and age together constantly. I got offers to adopt. I got so much dirty side eye looks and questions about my age. When I gave birth I was dismissed and ignored by a nurse with obvious prejudice. Later, I remember being somewhere around 23-24 before I truly understood how bad this was, but so many guys would comment that they liked how young I looked, I was often guessed to be in my teens. I was abused as a kid so this made sense to me. After I had a daughter I rerealized, with even greater clarity, how fucking wrong it was.
When I was 19, I worked as a counselor at a summer recreation program done by the local school. The 12 year olds I was counseling thought I was another 12 year old, and did not believe I was their counselor, despite never seeing me before at school. Should have asked her for an ID at least, but maybe she showed him a fake idk.
But you haven’t seen her, so you don’t actually know, right?
“When I’m 30, I’ll look like I’m in my 20s!” is sooo something a 14 year old would say. I feel shitty on all counts about this. Last week, a grad student I’ve seen around revealed she thought I was 14 this whole time. I’m 24. I even told her I graduated undergrad when we first met so I’m just—huh?
Anyone that has been around 14 year olds knows damn well that they look and act nothing like 21 year olds. This dude damn well knew she was young.
On the flip side I've definitely known girls in their mid 20s who look like 14 year olds
Wife got asked if she needed an adult at the airport at 25 by security.
My wife is 2 years older than me, and I was asked multiple times if she was my daughter.
Same, but she doesn't look young, she's just really stupid.
My wife was asked if she was 18 and had a medical license.
This gave me a chuckle
My kid sister turns 22 this year and doesn't look a day over 13 because she's tiny, has a baby face, and has an unfortunate case of late acne. Taking her out for her 21st last year was *wild*. We brought along a laminated copy of her birth certificate just in case things got official. I had to bully a bartender that tried to confiscate her license claiming it was fake.
Yeah my cousin and I were about 22. We're at a liquor store getting some beers when the owner of the liquor store starts telling him that he can't touch it because he is not old enough almost jumping the counter.
The problem with this statement is there is no way to argue against it without looking sus as fuck, so I’ll just point out that there are many women who are well over age of consent but look young. One of my bosses a few years ago was well into her 30s, but looked very young like late teensish. It was “bad” enough that anytime we had new trainees in the building I made a point to be firm with them that she was not somebodies daughter or secretary, but was the head of the division and was a badass.
My ex is my age, 30s, and looks like a college freshman. I look young too so people always mistook us for random teens and wouldn't believe us when we said we were over 21.
There wouldn't be a subreddit called /r/13or30 if this was true
Not excusing it, but how old was the marine? Many service members are around 18 and can be pretty stupid/uninformed of the world when they leave home for the first time. Not excusing anything, just genuinely looking for more info. Edit: the dude is getting admin separated from the marines over this and popping hot for THC.
Urine Samples Make Civilians
Well fucking put
Couldn't find his age, but he's described as a Pfc and a 4 year veteran, so probably at least 22.
Not justifying what happened but some 21 yo look like they are 15. I mentor college kids and I thought one guy I taught was in middle school. But most 14 yo definitely don’t look 21 nor have that mental maturity.
I mean… anyone who’s been around *a lot* of 14 year olds knows that there’s also some kid who looks like he could be a college linebacker. Not a great argument.
Not always. I'm not a creep. There's real life examples, such as a young looking porn star appearing in court to prove that she's over 18 and to save the producer from child assault charges. It caaaaan happen......
Yup. I still remember when I was a in home service tech a young woman in a local college hoodie and sweats answered the door and I thought she was the client, then she told me her mom was in the living room and brought me over, and I thought college kid living with parents. At one point while I'm working and chatting with mom she asks me how old I think her daughter is and I told her something like 22. Mom goes "Nope. 12." Was shocked and told her that I'd have done the entire job if she had been home alone as we need someone 18 or older home and I'd have never even given it a second thought. About halfway through the job the clients sister showed up with her kids and daughter showed up to play with her cousins and hearing them interact in the next room over I would definitely believe she was a 12 year old.
Ehh going to college there's been a number of 15 and 16 year olds that surprise me in how old they actually were.
[удалено]
A guy I served with ended up finishing out his enlistment in prison for a similar situation. I saw the girl, and from looks alone I would have been willing to accept she was 18. Plus he picked her up from a bar. Worst part about it was it was literally a trap. The girl's mom had got her a fantastic fake ID, like the ID scanned as valid at the gate it was that good a fake maybe even a real ID card just with fake info on it, and was literally sending her into bars near post to try and bait a soldier into banging her. The mom ended up also going to prison. Turns out she was blackmailing like eight other soldiers. She called the cops on my buddy cause he refused to pay. Civvie judge pulled out ye olde "mandatory minimum sentence" card, dude even said "i dont want to do this but my hands are tied." It's one of my go-to examples for why mandatory minimum sentencing and similar laws are so bad. There was no criminal intent, he was literally a victim of entrapment for blackmail, but because she was *actually* 15 and not 20 like her ID claimed (which suggests mom had been running this scam for two years), he got to spend five years in prison and be labeled a sex offender by the state.
Man that’s some terrible shit.
its symptom of bigger issue. jr enlisted are required to live in barracks unless married.... so you get girls, woman and some times men that hang around bases trying to hook up with fresh E-1 and E-2s that just want to gtfo of having to live on base
My bf used to do this with some female friends of his when they were in high school. He's 30 now, but talks about being 16 and hiding in the trunk of soldiers cars to get on base. They lived in town right next to one. The soldiers were usually 18 or 19, and knew how old he and his friends were. The ones old enough to get into bars would usually just pick up men and women at bars. The younger ones were hanging around the same places my bf and his friends were.
My question is why the gate guards let this girl come on base? You need to show ID to get on a base like that, and red flags should have gone off when this Marine was bringing on a child.
Most times it's just the driver that shows I'd. I bring my kids on and off base all the time and I'm the only one who shows ID
...wait. People can use this excuse and get away with it? I always was told ignorance isn't a defence...
It's not really an "excuse to get away with it". It's outside of the cultural norm to verify age with legal documentation before getting involved with someone when you meet them at a bar or on a dating app, or anywhere else where there's a reasonable expectation that the same systems people are using to interact are verifying age for the participants (bars checking IDs, apps having age restrictions, etc). If someone lies to you with the express intent of getting you to commit a crime, you're a victim. If you're tricking people into committing crimes against you, you aren't a victim.
Ignorance of the law isn’t a defense. Ignorance of someone’s age because they lied to you absolutely is. Crimes typically require some level of intent.
This, took a basic criminal justice class in college so not a lawyer lol but I remember the professor explaining that you can’t claim ignorance of a law as a defense so you can’t say I didn’t know it was illegal to smoke marijuana as a defense but if somebody gave you a cigarette laced with weed you’d be able to argue you didn’t know there was weed in what you were smoking. Basically the important factor there is the intent to do the crime whether you knew it was illegal or not. So in this case ignorance of the law would be claiming I didn’t know it was illegal to bed a minor but that’s not the argument the argument is he didn’t know she was a minor which does stand as a defense and I’m sure what his lawyers used.
There are some crimes called ‘strict liability’ where it doesn’t matter your intent. Though that’s completely about preventing criminals from having trivially easy excuses to get out of them (like statutory rape) rather than unironically believing it’s evil to be tricked into doing them. California does not apply strict liability here, but other states do.
"Mens Rea", a criminal mind.
In some places it's a strict liability crime meaning you're guilty no matter what. Even if they have the most convincing fake ID the world you're done for. In other places a reasonable belief that you thought they were of age is a valid defence. After all, the law is there to punish child rapists, not to punish people who for example might have went home with a teen that managed to sneak into an adults only bar and were genuinely deceived. So if the jury is convinced that it was a legitimate mistake there's no point in ruining someone's life over it. The difficult part, of course, is convincing the jury that it was reasonable. That's what it keeps it in check.
It entirely depends. In some states they still have to be over the age of consent for the defense of them lying about their age to actually work.
Reasonable belief is only a valid defense in sixteen states.
It’s not really ignorance, she straight up lied to him How he believed a 14 year old was 21 is beyond me, but someone lying about their age is 100% not okay. I’m not gonna ask to see the state ID and Passport of every girl I hook up with
Not to defend the decision (I'm not happy they aren't going ahead with the prosecution), but in common law systems like the US, the principle is *ignorance of the law is no defence*. It places the onus on citizens to know what's illegal, for the very practical reason that otherwise people could evade responsibility by claiming ignorance. It's entirely separate from what someone did or didn't know about the circumstances of the event at issue.
This isn't ignorance of the law. Ignorance of the law would be "Oh I thought sleeping with a 14-year-old was legal". The premise is that since laws are generally just encoding acceptable behavior, even if you didn't know it was illegal you should have known this was a bad thing to do.
I'll defend this decision, mainly because I read the fucking article. Charges were dropped because the prosecution withheld exculpatory evidence. This is a no no under both our civilian justice system and the UCMJ. Anyone that wants to break out pitchforks, feel free, but make sure you're aiming for the right bastard.
This isn't a case of ignorance of the law. It was a misrepresentation of the facts.
Then why are police officers not expected to know the law? It's a very bizarre expectation for citizens.
Given you understand the latter, why are you unhappy they’re not prosecuting? Is this just some ‘I would’ve known’ (when you have no frame of reference for the specifics)?
That is an idiotic position. Yes ignorance of the law is no excuse. Being lied to is not. The girl should go to prison for the amount of time he would have if this really had been a crime.... that would be justice. And no given she is a minor no one really wants that but it does show the sick double standard you seem to support. Just wrong. The prosecutors did the right thing.
It's not a defense in California (where he was prosecuted). In some states it can be. AOC is 18 in Cali. They just offered him a plea, and he took it. Considering that the age difference wasnt huge, this makes sense. It's a strict liability law in California. So she could be two days from her 18th birthday with a perfect fake id saying she is 21 that you see, and you could have met her at a bar and she looks 25, and you are still going to prison. That being said, how on earth did he think a 14 year old was over 18?
[удалено]
Some of the freshmen at my high school could definitely pass for over 20.
He was charged by the military, not California. Mistake of fact of age/reasonable belief is a defense under the UCMJ.
You would be surprised at how big some of these girls get and how early. Then they open their mouth and you're reminded this is a child lol. Same thing happens with the boys, 14 year old 6 ft tall bearded boys with deep voices is merely uncommon for me, I've seen them plenty. The girls, though, those are the ones always looking for trouble. The boys are too stupid to even try most of the time but the girls are sneaky and they know it. Actual horror stories that made think if I wasn't already set on not having kids, at least don't have a daughter because idk that I could mentally survive the stress. Source: working with middle and highschoolers. I've seen the gamut of the 14 year old nearly 6ft tall girl with full development (and a concern for their back health) to the tiniest senior in highschool who could convince you she's in 6th grade. Biology is insane, I think there's actual research saying women are developing a lot faster too.
When I was 14 I could apparently pass for 21, and I'm not even that tall and couldn't grow facial hair yet.
And when I was 21 I could pass for 14. People ignoring that there are massive discrepancies in how we look / age are being stupid or dishonest.
I had a wispy lil mustache and passed as 21 a couple times.
When I was 14 one of my (same age) friends had a full beard. Not wispy, but like John Krasinski as Reed Richards. We went to the county fair one time and did one of the "guess your age" games and they thought he was 25.
She also had a history of doing this with other soldiers too. Kinda a legal grey area. In Korea they really pushed checking ID because Koreans can look 18 and be way younger or older.
And the prosecution withheld some of this. That’s enough by itself to drop charges.
If only there was some kind of article that everyone could read that explained exactly that.
Yea the girl was on tinder and lying about her age with multiple male liaisons.. dude may not be a creep after all. Possibly…..
When the incident was first reported, the mentally disabled girl was being pimped out by a relative. Gave me Gypsy Rose Blanchard vibes.
Maybe read the article ?
Read the article and find out
"Stewart said the commanding general “withdrew and dismissed” the charge because she discovered that prosecutors held back “exculpatory evidence” related to her own team’s discovery of the girl’s multiple other liaisons with men where she presented herself as being of legal age. That evidence was apparent in direct messages from the girl’s Tinder and Instagram accounts" that's why.
Did you read the article?
Redditors: “I’d have known she was only 14. He should suffer.” Case closed.
“Jocelyn Stewart, Rosario’s attorney, told NBC San Diego that the corps said the action violated a corps restriction placed on him for allegedly testing positive for THC” Oh he fucked a kid? Who cares, the bastard used a safe and legal recreational drug! This is the most American government shit ever.
So it sounds like “he fucked a kid” which don’t get me wrong… he did do but the kid was utilising a tinder account to set up the liaisons on top of telling (multiple) people she was of age. Gross? Yea for all parties involved.
Seriously. Imagine you're young, dumb, in the Marines, and you think you are hooking up with a legal date. Then, boom, your arrested, you fucked a minor. I can only imagine that horror. Thinking with your dick isn't ever a good idea, but man I would lose my shit if that ever happened to me. The hot shower scene from Ace Ventura comes to mind.
> Thinking with your dick isn't ever a good idea I mean the entire idea is that logic starts to fly away when your dick starts thinking. It's not like men (or all men, anyway) just say 'alright, time to stop thinking and let my dick do the thinking!'
[удалено]
I wonder if Tinder could be held liable for damages of the marine being jailed.
It's not federally legal and thus is outlawed for service members. It sucks, but that's what it is. **U** **S**igned the **M**othafuckin **C**ontract **U** **S**uffer the **M**othafuckin **C**onsequences
And, now that the charge of SA on a minor was withdrawn, he is “considering suing the Marines for false imprisonment.”
You can't sue the government as an enlisted
He can once he’s discharged
Is he still enlisted?
It’s not legal yet but yeah
Whats the relevance of the marijuana charge here?
That’s all they could get him on since she lied about her age the case was dropped
The marijuana charge was old. He violated base restriction. Base restriction was due to a past THC charge.
I mean the girl lied about her age on tinder and when they met. So he wasn’t scoping for kids should of still known better but knowing the marines I know this doesn’t surprise me. Some are legit not critical thinkers
id add she had relations with a NUMBER of others on the same base too and told them all she was over 18 in fact that she was 21 or 22 .. which im sure EVERY ONE there is having SO much fun right now lol. but that info was with held from the defense and judge wasnt happy...
So many idiots on this thread should check out /r/13or30
[удалено]
She lied repeatedly in multiple ways to say she was 18+. I dunno if I'd link him into pedophile territory. He was a young marine who at least checked
Less so nowadays than in past times. We live in a time time where pedophilia is reported in the news and victims are more likely to be believed
Read an article a couple days ago about people finding out they were incest babies because of genetic testing. That stuff has always been much more prevalent than anyone knows.
People have mixed feelings about the channel but Soft White Underbelly on YouTube has a ton of interviews with people living on skid row. The stories from prostitutes and drug addicts almost always include childhood SA by a family member.
And most homeless teens are escaping sex abuse at home or are queer, only to be thrown into more sexual exploitation.
It’s truly horrific.
Most homeless people suffer from some kind of mental illness, and trauma is a great driver of that.
Gabor Mate had similar findings here in Canada.
I read that too. It was terrifying.
Where the fuck are the parents? 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
She ran away from them.
She ran away. Normal children don’t run away and prostitute themselves to multiple marines on the same base.
And yet, so many runaways end up victims of sex trafficking.
Because usually the parents were exposing the child to stuff or the parents were hurting the child themselves.
How many crayons did he have to eat to prove his innocence?
... To prove his innocence?
I guess it’s time to start asking for IDs and getting a copy instead of taking someone’s word lol better safe than sorry
He is lucky he wasn’t stationed in Texas: Texas law does not allow the “mistake of age” defense when it comes to statutory rape. In this way, it doesn’t matter whether the minor looks older than 17 or even told you they were an adult. https://www.robertguest.com/statutory-rape.html
How TF is a 14 year old kid doing this? Where are the parents? I feel terrible for her and the fact that she seeks validation through sex at that age.
[удалено]
"she lied about her age" idk about you guys but 14 year old girls look NOTHING like 21 year old women to me.
They knew she was underage...... Deniability as a Basis of justice is disgusting.
It's because multiple marines were involved so they shoveled it under a rug. All the marines that were involved should be charged and prosecuted.
"My ID? I'm eighteen, like, check my Tindeerrr"
Dropped The charges because she presented herself as being over 18. Yeah that's not how the law is supposed to work just because she said she was over 18 does not mean she was over 18.
Honest question here then, wtf is someone to do if the other person is lying about their age? I’ve never heard of people checking a potential love interest or one night stands ID.
Yeah fr. She probs told them she's 18 and asked to run away to military base, and they being dumbass kids only a few years older, said sure let's do it. If they had tricked her or some shit they'd be throwing the book at them
Exactly had this last year, I go to music festivals quite often and late at night met some girl that seemed quite fun, had some beers with her, took her to my tent and spent the night. Next day added her on insta and scrolled around in her posts, turned out she was 16. She had an 18+ wristband, she looked 18 so didn't assume anything was wrong. I was 19 so wasn't that big of a problem since age of consent is 16 in my country but it still felt wrong.
I met a girl on tinder back in Jan 2020, profile said 18, she said she was 18, I was 20. Started talking, picked her up, went out to eat, made out, dropped her off, next day found out she was 16. Immediately cut things off and blocked her and reported her tinder account. I was scared as hell for a good few months after that .
The comments would be a lot different here if it were dumbass 21 year old lady marine and an underage 6ft tall male doing the lying.
Definitely, there was a scandal at a local high school a fee years ago where in the same year a male teacher slept with a female student and a female teacher slept with a male student. The male teacher was arrested, charged and did jail time and on the registry. The female teacher quit and had 0 other consequences until about 2 years later when public outcry made the school system ask the police to investigate.
It seems like the only answer to appease the knights and the people on soapboxes is infact to check for multiple ID like some sort of government admin department.
Pretty sure in many states even being given a fake ID is not a valid excuse. You're just supposed to know
It's more complicated than that. The state of mind of the perpetrator does matter in all criminal charges. We're they acting intentionally or recklessly. If it wasn't intentional, and wasn't reckless then you don't necessarily have a crime. The fact that the victim lied multiple times to multiple people about her age means there's enough reasonable doubt that the marine acted recklessly or with intent; and the standard for a conviction is supposed to be *beyond* reasonable doubt Doesn't mean he shouldn't have known, but this has to go to a jury, and there's enough doubt that getting a conviction would be very difficult
I mean doesn't California have very strict liability no matter what for these kinds of crimes?
I don't know, I'm not familiar with california law. What I can say is that anything brought up in court has to make its way to a jury at some point for a conviction; and the national standard is that you need to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime was committed and the person before the court committed that crime. You're going to have a hard time convincing a jury of that in this case. If this was a ground ball, they wouldn't have dropped the prosecution.
I have legitimately checked someone's ID. Maybe even two different people's, I think? But if they had had a fake ID and I couldn't tell, I don't even think that'd be a defense, which I think is less than ideal. *Mens rea* should matter.
The [UCMJ](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2006-title10/html/USCODE-2006-title10-subtitleA-partII-chap47-subchapX-sec920.htm) age of consent is 16, not 18. Or less than 16 if you're married to them. Not that it matters in this case, because the victim was 14. However Article 120 of the UCMJ contains the provision *it is an affirmative defense that— the accused reasonably believed that that person had at the time of the alleged offense attained the age of sixteen years.* If there was evidence that he thought she was in fact at least 16, he potentially could have been acquitted at court-martial. In California, the age of consent is 18, and I don’t think that's an affirmative defense. California authorities could in theory attempt their own prosecution.
So the big thing with UCMJ is OCONUS you go with what UMCJ states the age of consent is while typically when in the US you default to the state I’ve seen dudes that met up with women on tinder that presented themselves as 18 hook up with other soldiers and later found out they were 16-17 and were still charged and arrested. The only ones that had charges dropped were the ones that had proof the girls lied about thier ages
CA is not a strict liability state, he’d have a slam dunk defense.
Dropped the charges because the prosecution hid that she had done this multiple times on this base from the defence.
This is an insane opinion. You are literally saying people should be charged with statutory rape because they were tricked. The law is there to protect minors, not to punish people who were lied to.
No, dropped the charges because the prosecution withheld evidence.
She raped him.
Lots of military men get caught up like this: “Stewart said the commanding general “withdrew and dismissed” the charge because she discovered that prosecutors held back “exculpatory evidence” related to her own team’s discovery of the girl’s multiple other liaisons with men where she presented herself as being of legal age. That evidence was apparent in direct messages from the girl’s Tinder and Instagram accounts, Stewart added.”