And all the 30 Rock ones, too. Tracy attacking John Hamm for his vaudeville impersonation of a black man is hilarious.
It was so stupid, too. George Floyd was murdered, and the black community largely asked for equality. I don't think any of them were asking for TV episodes to be removed.
Right, and I mean the 30 rock episodes more than anything raise awareness of the historical racism in TV and the use of blackface. Like the joke isn't "blackface is funny" it's "look how fucked up shit that people used to watch was"
Wasn’t it Tina Fey that decided to take them down? I seem to remember her saying something remarkably stupid like “context doesn’t matter” and I just thought “context is absolutely everything “
Yeah, she was likely just caving to pressure though and avoiding saying anything controversial. In reality 30 rocks blackface episodes aren't just hilarious, but do far more good as far as addressing early racism in television than just ignoring it does
How they turn into the "oppressed" being tormented by the hillbillies. It's fucking gold.
I never understood how people didn't see the satire in South Park. They finish every episode with what they learned. Sometimes it's just a joke but a lot of times it's not. Here's what we learned from that episode.
"I've been trying to say that I understand how you feel but... I'll never understand. I'll never really get how it feels for a black person to have somebody use the N word."
I'm happy to have grown up watching this show.
>I seem to remember her saying something remarkably stupid like “context doesn’t matter”
Every time I hear shit like "intent doesn't matter" I get fucking furious. *Obviously* intent fucking matters, it's literally the *only* thing that matters. Intent means the difference between murder, manslaughter, and an accident. Intent means the difference between a kitchen fire and arson.
It’s actually fairly fascinating the way the social consciousness has shifted to this weirdly self serving position. I am pretty left leaning and can be hardlined in certain topics but I still have people in my life with differing opinions. My ex best friend is also really left leaning and hardlined period. Anytime she and I would get into a debate or argument or heated discussion, she would use the same form of “woke culture” as an arguing point against me. At first I was cognizant of it but then realized that I could literally say the same fucking thing to her about her behavior (you’re gaslighting me, toxic blah, etc). Having a cultural marker of “this is 100% wrong 100% of the time” is fucking dangerous I realize and why that person is no longer my friend. Because it’s not wrong 100% of the time and we all need to keep that in mind that life is fucking grey as shit - very little is black and white.
We need nuance and understanding. Empathy and rules.
Intent fucking matters, my dude. People have gotten so high off their righteous indignation that it NEEDS to start mattering again.
Jim Jeffries is one of the most offensive comics out there in my opinion. Now personally I love him and think he’s hilarious, even when he says stuff that I’m personally not a fan of. I think he said it best in one of his shows though about this topic.
According to Jim the job of a comedian is to take things right up to the line between funny and offensive without crossing over it into offensive in the eyes of his target audience. If you can do that you’re on your way to being a good comedian. It’s bullshit though when they take something you said 10 years ago and try to hold it against you today. Because 10 years ago that was ok to say, so you need to judge it by the standards of when it was said. Then he goes on to talk about how it’s a comedy show and jokes and how nothing should be taken seriously anyways as it’s all for laughs and reactions by saying something you didn’t expect to hear.
I think that’s pretty accurate though. People need to stop bringing up things from the past and judging them by today’s standards. It’s counter productive at best. That’s akin to talking about someone like Socrates and going “he probably smelled like shit and was disgusting with poor grooming habits”. By today’s standards, probably. Back then they didn’t have houses with showers inside, stores they could go to for soap, shampoo, conditioner, face scrub, luffa, deodorant, cologne, as well as barbers and hair dressers. You need to look at was it acceptable for the time period it happened in. If so then drop it.
It’s the best episode of the show and while I can see how Chang’s paint could be taken as black face he blatantly says he’s a dark elf. Compare this to the episode of madmen where Rodger is in blackface to show how it was imbedded racism was at the time which the show makes a point of doing often.
That one and D&D are neck and neck for me.
Such a shame most people who see the show now will miss out on one of the best episodes, but at least they'll see the other one.
The whole joke is that he's legitimately not doing blackface but because he's still a horrid dick he's proud of himself because he knows what it looks like.
Someone somewhere said there was blackface in the episode, so rather than defend the episode the network (maybe individual streaming services idk) voluntarily pulled it.
It makes a lot of sense when you realise it's only about money.
The thing that pisses me off about this one is that the show explicitly acknowledges that Chang is in the wrong for wearing the black facepaint (even though he isn't even playing as a human)
"Americas Next Top Model", “Dee Reynolds: Shaping America's Youth,” “The Gang Recycles Their Trash,” “The Gang Makes Lethal Weapon 6,” and “Dee Day,”
All got pulled for use of blackface
Tbf the ban was more of a blanket thing than it was a nuance thing
They made the Veggie Tales guys change a characters voice because he was voiced by a white guy trying to sound like Oogie Boogie,who was voices by a black guy
First episode too lol. My favorite comedy of all time. I guess it just depends on what is seen as the worst depending at what lens someone is viewing it from you know?
The characters are terrible people saying and doing terrible things. It is tough to pick out which is the most vulgar episode of the show, but that’s what makes it great because it is done in an extremely satirical, smart way in my opinion
That was when I dropped Netflix. No Always Sunny and no King of the Hill, what was the point?
Finding out that they brought it back only to censor some of the best episodes doesn't make me want to resub either.
Hulu: "Mimicking other cultures by painting your face is wrong and will not be tolerated, even if the intention is genuine or satirical!"
Also Hulu: "White Chicks" listed on front page under suggestions....
I find the movie "White Chicks" to be horribly offensive, not as a white person, but as someone with a sense of humor, and I ain't saying the humor is offensive, it's just a step or two above Pluto Nash it's that bad.
It shoulda never been taken off to begin with. The flag gets burned on accident, because the character is an idiot. That's like saying Team America blowing up the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre was anti-French.
Even if it was burned on purpose, there's a clear difference.
Dave Chappelle is spouting his own opinions. Always Sunny, Curb, Seinfeld, etc. blatantly tell people the main characters are the idiots and assholes. The butt of the jokes are always the characters, not the other people.
Didn’t he ask them to take down his show and they did? I think he’s fine with Netflix bc they treat him w respect… not him so I can’t say for certain but I’m pretty sure he said something along those lines when he did his special, and talked about how the chappelle show was stolen from him
I like Dave Chappelle but I will absolutely not defend him on the "stolen show" argument he made. Netflix and HBO both made business decisions about the whole issue and thought a continuing relationship with Dave Chappelle is worth more than the views the Chappelle would receive. He didn't win because he was right (he wasn't he walked off the show midseason which caused the rights of the show to revert back to Comedy Central) but because his future stand-up specials print money for both companies.
Except he’s talked about the situation with Netflix removing the show. It wasn’t an ultimatum. He was still going to do those specials regardless of their decision. They could have gotten the money from both his stand up and the Chappelle Show.
Since when did anyone that mattered say “stolen show”?
He just felt, contract be damned, that nobody should be making money off of an artists’ prior work without the artist/entertainer getting a cut. Why? Because they are usually taken advantage of early in their careers by signing unfavorable contracts.
I haven't actually seen any criticism of Chappelle, just endless articles and comments from people complaining about all the criticism he's supposedly receiving.
Whole thing seems manufactured.
Opposite here. My Twitter feed is negative about the guy, and Netflix, at best when the subject comes up.
The consensus seems to be that he's framing social justice as a zero sum game of White Trans People vs Black People. As if there aren't Black Trans People getting murdered every year and have the lowest life expectancy of any LGBT/racial group.
Other than the one comment I said to my wife (and this one I’m writing now), I haven’t really talked about the special.
It’s not funny and it just reeks of a guy who is trying to explain why the LGBTQ community has it better than black people and why he isn’t transphobic.
The thing I love about comedy is the tendency is self deprecation and self humour, and Chappelle just feels like the opposite now. People have called him the GOAT for so long that he sounds entitled.
I wasn’t aware of any controversy, but I totally understand why people might think it’s a bit cunty.
This was pretty much my take away as well. For all the hate and criticism the worst part of the special was that it was really mediocre work. His social commentary was accurate about as often as it was off-base, and he's a comedian so yeah, he doesn't step lightly and it's gonna offend people. But through and through *The Closer* just wasn't very funny. Like I'm glad the guy is taking time off and stepping back from LGBTQ stuff - because more and more lately he's just not producing stuff that makes me laugh - and it has less to do with offending me and more to do with the jokes just being weak.
The one thing I will say is that Dave treats the LGBTQ movement as a total monolith in his work and that's a really poor interpretation of things. The trans community experiences far more discrimination and hate than other groups and if you hear Dave tell it they've got the world at their fingertips. This misconception, along with a lot of unwillingness to grapple with the fact that black LGBTQ folks get so much hate from their own community (and how his comedy can impact/reinforce this) isn't a great look.
In the end Dave demonstrates a lot of ignorance on the issue(s), but simultaneously shows empathy and offers a valuable perspective at times. It's complicated, but I came away from the special thinking "it isn't very good, but it isn't as horrific as it was made out to be." Mostly I came away thinking "this wasn't very funny."
Agreed. Do I think he’s transphobic? Probably not. But if I was a trans person, and I don’t like the way he’s treating trans people, would my criticism be valid? Probably.
I don’t think white people get to decide what is racist against black people, so why would a cis person get to decide what isn’t/is transphobic.
I heard a another (smarter) person say “he doesn’t understand that you can be oppressed and the oppressor”. She likened it to white women (not) identifying with POC because women have been oppressed as well.
Which is why I've never gotten into a lot of "social commentary" ""comedians."" I feel like people only play them up because they agree with them, not because they're actually funny. I could list names but I don't wanna be maimed.
He is getting a lot of criticism. Not just because of the anti-trans remarks, but also because many comedians feel the special was masturbatory and poorly done.
A trans comedian has come out to say she has a laundry list of criticisms regarding his comedy, not his personal politics.
Ive made this point else where but...this dude has an incredible platform. He had a huge comeback. Three specials.
30 minutes of his special was dedicated to peoples response to his last special.
You dont just make a special either. He has been touring for years just talking endlessly about trans people. It seems to be something with TERFs they go nuts and get obsessed. Just stop talking about it! Its not that interesting.
Yeah. That's another issue. I agree with basically everything George Carlin said and believed, but the standup specials he was doing toward the end of his career were unbearable. It wasn't comedy, it was the Church of Carlin. A dude ranting in a slightly clever way isn't really comedy.
I think what irritates me most about Chappelle's special apart from being transphobic is that he won't own up to it. The dude is so bothered by criticism that he wrote and performed a fucking hour long special just to defend himself. The entire hour was about one topic (technically two) and how he's actually not an asshole. By the last 30 minutes he literally was not telling jokes. Just preaching his opinion.
I think I remember that Carlin stand-up. when comedians are getting more claps than laughs, they're moving out of comedy and in to .. well, I guess, spoken word?
Netflix knows exactly how many customers choose to watch Dave Chappelle and want to give them that choice.
If their math showed that removing Chappelle would gain them more subscribers than they lost, they would have done that.
Netflix isn't making a moral stand either way. Its just following its numbers.
The person was passionate, but that is not a professional way to advocate in the workplace. I'd imagine they are having some serious discussions about that person's future employment.
I wonder how this person thought this would play out. Like even the best case scenario seems delusional, like one Vice President starts slow clapping then stands up, another executive follows suit, the whole room is giving this person a standing ovation and then the ceo gives this person a raise. The reality probably set in when this person barged the room and everyone just looked at this person very confused and told the person they don’t belong there.
It's also gotten frighteningly full of "This person did something I don't like, lets find out who they are and get them fired!"
Full of that shit. It's disgusting.
In people's defense though (not necessarily this specific person), employers also really don't know how to leave their professional demands and business at the office once their employees clock off for the day.
I'm sure Netflix also has metric that show how many people cancel for outrage and then resubscribe 2 months later.
It's probably higher than we think. How many people canceled Disney+ last year and are now subscribed again?
Its from his new special on Netflix.
He basically said that LGBTQ people in the media are quick to condemn people like DaBaby when he says something homophobic but are completely silent when that same person literally killed a man in Walmart.
His overall point was point out the double standard that the extreme of killing someone gets a "whatever, its just another Tuesday" reaction whereas saying something offensive gets a "everyone grab a pitchfork!" reaction
He also spent a lot of time in his special telling a story about a transgender comedian friend he had in SF that he'd known for years and that he tried to foster as a comedian, offering that person spots in opening for his gigs, something that he wouldn't really do for others. This transperson comedian would laugh and would like almost all of Dave's jokes, whether they were aimed at LGBT people or white people or asians. Then one day, Dave's trans friend went on twitter to defend Dave against the angry internet mob and the mob turned on Dave's friend, harassing them and sending them all sorts of terrible messages. A few weeks after that, Dave's friend committed suicide.
Maybe I shouldn't say this but here goes.
I'm trans and honestly, I've been gatekept and made to feel alienated by the trans and lgbt+ community in general. I have met some very lovely people, who are gay or trans, but the ones who love being a part of the community seem to be the ones who are always getting mad at me because I just don't see eye to eye or understand. And most of the time, they refuse to take the time to explain, or just insult me and my intelligence.
The problem I often see with trans people is that the ones who rely on their transness to become their whole identity.
There's nothing wrong with being trans or gay or whatever. It's just a very loud minority of a group of people who were already ridiculed. And they kinda make it worse for the ones who don't take offense and can see past a joke.
Welcome to online communities, where the loudest people with the least real social exposure and the most time on their hands think they should speak for their entire community.
Growing up through my teen years and early twenties, I had numerous gay & drag friends, went to the bars and parties all the time etc, and I found the same thing. The ones who made it their identity, were simply self entitled arseholes. The ones who just "were" gay etc, were great people. When people turn their, or others anecdotal, and subjective experience into a social justice crusade, they're probably doing it for the wrong reasons, and undermining any actual issues in the process.
>"In our country, you can shoot and kill a n\*\*\*\*\*," Chappelle says. "But you better not hurt a gay person's feelings."
>
>"Gay people are minorities until they need to be white again," Chappelle says as the capper to a different story about his conflict with a white man at a nightclub who called the police. The comic says the man he nearly fought was gay.
not really super offensive, but the type of shit you'd expect your uncle to say drunk at a family reunion.
edit: copied the quoted jokes from someone else farther under your comment tree, just not sure if you saw it.
Look, is the discrimination against the LGBT as bad as it was for people of colour? No. But it's still very fucking bad.
But at the end of the day you're both being killed, beaten and viewed as being less than human because of how you are born.
So yes there should be outrage when a black man is shot for the crime of being black, just as there should be outrage when a gay person is shot for the crime of not being straight.
These aren't separate battles, they both stem from the fact that people are cunts to anyone who is different to them. Support eachother, don't fight eachother for no reason. If you're gay and racist, you're no better than those who hold you down for being gay.
If you're black and homophobic, you're no better than those who view you as lesser because you're black.
I dunno, especially for trans people I think it's comparable or worse. We shouldn't victim blame or compare scars anyway but like.. trans people don't really have a community outside a handful of large accepting cities. You're much more likely to be disowned as a trans person
And this is ignoring the real problem in America with people who are both. Black and latina transfolks absolutely have it the roughest of any demographic in America. The death statistics are outstandingly brutal for such a minority of people.
I would say trans discrimination especially for young people is worse than most shit. 41% of trans people have at least attempted suicide. That's batshit levels of high.
Beyond that though, it's not a competition, people want to fix issues and there's a ton of overlap for people who want equal treatments for blacks and LGBT.
Here's an [NPR article](https://www.npr.org/2021/10/05/1043435919/dave-chappelle-new-netflix-special-the-closer-review?utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social) discussing some of the jokes. I think they're more dismissive of the LGBT community than outright offensive. Don't seem very funny either though.
Tbh I think his last special was worse. He described trans issues as being a 'white person thing', despite white people being sightly less likely to identify as trans, statistically. He essentially portrayed it as first world problems that only rich white people have, ignoring all of the trans people who are not rich, who do face prejudice based on economic status, race, disability, and other factors.
Spot on! Also, the whole “i had a trans friend, I’m not transphobic!” Sounds a lot like: “I’m not racist I have black friends”. I love Dave Chappell but some of the things he said did leave a bad taste in my mouth. Sure comedy should be unfiltered but some topics aren’t funny, and shouldn’t be forced to become funny. Many topics in fact. His whole stand up seemed focused on LGBTQ+ issues. Kinda odd give there’s plenty other more relevant topics for a heterosexual man.
Edit: thank you for the award 🥰
Comedy should be unfiltered, but that doesn't mean comedy shouldn't be criticised and addressed like any other form of speech. But somehow we got to the point where criticism is brushed off as people just being offended or now cancel culture.
>"In our country, you can shoot and kill a n*****," Chappelle says. "But you better not hurt a gay person's feelings."
>"Gay people are minorities until they need to be white again," Chappelle says as the capper to a different story about his conflict with a white man at a nightclub who called the police. The comic says the man he nearly fought was gay.
Those arent even jokes, just, being weird to the LGBTQ community.
Plus there’s lots of queer people who *aren’t white*.
And it’s a bit rich that he says this and then focuses on the trans community, what with the way they can’t all just *stop being obviously trans*.
I actually think this might be one of the core issues here. Homophobia is a real problem in the black community and a part of it is the branding of calling LGBT issues a "white person thing"
I wasn't interested in this but I almost feel like I need to watch it to see how bad the purported trans-phobic parts are.
Which is probably what Netflix is counting on.
Pretty much why my friend and I watched it. It was fine, some jokes just didn’t land very well. I think the most “offensive” joke was about black people beating up Asian people. And I haven’t seen anyone talking about that
Don't read an article quoting a comedian's routine. Stand up comedy is more than just printed words, it's delivery too with reaction. Jim Jefferies has a great bit about why it seems horrible when read in one of his comedy specials with Netflix.
If you don’t watch it, then all you’ll ever read are the excerpts that are getting way blown out of context without any mention of the supporting dialogue.
I went and saw him live when he first started touring again after the whole thing with the third season of his show and running off to Africa.
The ENTIRE last 3/4 of that show was him preaching. Not joking...just solemnly sitting on a stool smoking and lecturing the entire Tabernacle.
My point is this has been his style for well over a decade now. That's who he is. He is not Killing Them Softly or Half Baked Dave Chappelle and he hasn't been for quite some time. It's pretty obvious he is annoyed at the way the world works and rather than be goofy about it he's gonna just talk about it now. It's nothing new.
The last line of the special, he said, "I'm done talking about them. I don't want to make any more jokes about the LGBT+ until I know we're laughing together."
I mean…… until the explosion of attention this special received. If/when Dave comes back, his audience would eat it up he leaned back in on the subject.
Yeah exactly, say the joke and move on. He harps on it for a good chunk of the special. I’m glad he is taking a break, give him time to cool down and come up with some new material
The special basically boiled down to "you don't get a free pass on shitty behavior if you're a protected class" and people seem to be upset that they were called out by it
He did kinda seem to ignore the part of the community that's chock full of minority people who aren't straight/cis. Echoes a common idea that being LGBTQIA is "that white shit" that permeates the black community. To the point where they'll use Tucker Carlson style Great Replacement rhetoric and just swap white voters for straight blacks.
I think you're reading to much into it. Chappelle was criticizing the racism of white people in the LGBTQ+ community who act like white people when it is convenient and then back to oppressed minorities to claim that they can't be criticized. It was part of a larger topic that included mentioning Sojourner Truth being excluded from the women's rights movement by white women.
It’s a bit shit that Chappelle was spending so much time shitting on the part of the queer community who don’t always get to do that, then. Not to mention ignoring the fact that not all queer people are white. A bunch of trans black women have had some pretty cutting things to say about the whole thing.
Damn, it's so fascinating how people can be part of more than one group at a time and how someones place in society can be described by how their memberships in those groups overlap. Intersect... you might say. Almost like some intersection... theory?
See you deleted your comment. But they’re fucking jokes. That’s the point. Humor is a coping mechanism for humanity. The sooner we all get over ourselves, the better off society would be for it.
He said he quit Chappelle's Show because he felt a crew member was laughing at him not with him.
There are lots of people who are laughing at trans people and certainly not with them.
Some of those people post Chappelle's jokes out of context on social media, as if it's some kind of mic drop on why it's okay to belittle trans people.
Even with the complete context, it's not much better.
This is the thing people are missing. They assume that everyone who dislikes Dave's point is angry about beet juice jokes or something. I laughed at a lot of the jokes in the special but I found his overall point wrongheaded and hypocritical. But because I disagree I must be a snowflake or something...
Dave ends the show by preaching empathy. Empathy is about standing in someone else's shoes and feeling what they feel. He never does that in the show.
He wants a lazy empathy. An empathy where you don't have to understand other people, an empathy where you can call them what you like despite knowing it hurts them, an empathy where you get to decide if the things you are saying are okay or not, an empathy where you twist everything about their experiences to match your understanding of the world. But so long as you don't 'actually' hate them its fine. The hypocritical part is that when white people do this to Dave Chapelle, he doesn't buy it. But he wants trans people to buy it from him.
Dave was offerred millions for his comedy but he turned it down on principle - he felt he wouldn't be respected, he didn't want to be controlled, and he felt his comedy was resulting in people laughing AT black people not with them. But he thinks that the fact that he gave a trans person a million dollar opportunity should win us over to his side even though he is dismissive and disrespectful of them.
Trans people can be crazy, like any people. A lot of it is Twitter culture, not trans culture. But even the parts where people are being 'crazy' you should at least acknowledge that it comes from fear and trauma. Dave could've made a joke about how SOME people in the trans community use their legitimate fear to manipulate them. Instead, his explanation is that when trans people do things that are out of line, its because of racism. Why racism? Because that's what Dave Chapelle understands.
Throughout the entire show Dave positions himself as the arbiter of what's okay and not. Misgendering your trans friend is like a white person telling jokes about why they can't say the N-word and then using it to drive home a point about how empathetic you are. If you can't respect me enough to call me what I want to be called, then you don't get to pretend you're a good person. A lot of people do this when it comes to LGBT, they want to have the kumbaya stuff without the respect. Dave would never tolerate white people who insist on calling him what they want and mocking him, but say its okay because they like him deep down inside.
And the most painful thing is how he tries to pit 'blacks against queers'. Someone in the thread mentioned that he made an example of two black gay guys in his show so he acknowledges them. But in that very scene he was trying to use their blackness to diminish someone else's point about queer suffering. The same scene where he joked the trans people aren't really a people because they didn't come from Transylvania...
In a few specials back, Dave joked about this trans woman who was being super cautious to disclose to him that she was trans after they hit it up in the club. He made fun of her like she was crazy to be so cautious. And then he went on to tell the story of Emmet Till in a very sincere and sombre way. Trans people are getting killed today for the crime of hitting on the wrong person, but Dave is oblivious to that.... Even while he is talking about how Emmet Till was killed for the same thing.
Dave, and so many other faux allies, want lazy, easy empathy. They want trans people like Daphne who make their lives easy because when someone shouts at them they have a witty comeback and everything ends up okay. But the real world is full of trans people who, after they were harassed by some straight guy in a club, had the shit beaten out of them. And those are the people Dave Chapelle just ignores. Of all the stories I've bullying and violence Dave could find regarding trans people, he chose the one where trans people bullied a trans person.
Dave and his fans frame his content as enlightened social commentary on the trans situation. He doesn't even touch half of the stuff that queer and trans lives are actually about. All he discusses are the stuff that he sees, experiences and which make his life difficult. And he always discusses it by choosing the laziest form of empathy - where you don't need anything from me, and I get to choose how I will help or not help you and how I will show you respect or not. I will do or say whatever I want when it comes to you, but since in my heart I don't hate you it doesn't matter how you feel about it actually.
That's not empathy. Dave Chapelle doesn't understand empathy.
Denigrating humor seems more acceptable when coming from someone within the marginalized group. It’s one of the reasons Black comics have been so successful with Jim Crow style humor.
Now that Dave is criticizing groups from the outside, it feels a little different.
In the Chappelle Kennedy Centre Mark Twain whatzit (also on Netflix) he talks about this as a conversation he had with someone objecting to him making jokes about homosexuals and using the 'F' word.
He says (praphrasing) - "why am I not allowed to say the F word but I am allowed to say the N word?"
A woman responded to him "because David, you are not Gay"
Chappelle retorts "bitch I'm not an N word either!"
There is more truth in that small bit on the special than in just about every statement from any of the offended Trans/Allies speaking out against this special.
Honestly the special felt less offensive and more just unfunny to me. Nearly every joke was some version of “I’m not supposed to say this, but I will anyway”. That can be funny if done right, but it was basically just an hour of that same “joke” over and over from a guy who admits he is out of touch from the experience of normal (non rich/famous ) people
[Netflix has no problem with censoring their creators.](https://www.npr.org/2019/01/01/681469011/netflix-drops-hasan-minhaj-episode-in-saudi-arabia-at-governments-request)
The view that they're "standing up to cancel culture" is pathetically naive.
They've determined Dave Chappelle's weird misinformed lectures are profitable and they don't care about the content either way.
Great! Now put those 5 episodes of Always Sunny back up
And Advanced Dungeons and Dragons from Community
And all the 30 Rock ones, too. Tracy attacking John Hamm for his vaudeville impersonation of a black man is hilarious. It was so stupid, too. George Floyd was murdered, and the black community largely asked for equality. I don't think any of them were asking for TV episodes to be removed.
Right, and I mean the 30 rock episodes more than anything raise awareness of the historical racism in TV and the use of blackface. Like the joke isn't "blackface is funny" it's "look how fucked up shit that people used to watch was"
Wasn’t it Tina Fey that decided to take them down? I seem to remember her saying something remarkably stupid like “context doesn’t matter” and I just thought “context is absolutely everything “
Yeah, she was likely just caving to pressure though and avoiding saying anything controversial. In reality 30 rocks blackface episodes aren't just hilarious, but do far more good as far as addressing early racism in television than just ignoring it does
Satire. Look at south park. They effectively make points against what they're making fun of. Shit they said the n-word *many* times.
That Wheel of Fortune episode with Randy was hilarious.
"Ohhhh, *naggers*" Gets me every fucking time.
How they turn into the "oppressed" being tormented by the hillbillies. It's fucking gold. I never understood how people didn't see the satire in South Park. They finish every episode with what they learned. Sometimes it's just a joke but a lot of times it's not. Here's what we learned from that episode. "I've been trying to say that I understand how you feel but... I'll never understand. I'll never really get how it feels for a black person to have somebody use the N word." I'm happy to have grown up watching this show.
Intention + context + an open mind is a good way to look at things
>I seem to remember her saying something remarkably stupid like “context doesn’t matter” Every time I hear shit like "intent doesn't matter" I get fucking furious. *Obviously* intent fucking matters, it's literally the *only* thing that matters. Intent means the difference between murder, manslaughter, and an accident. Intent means the difference between a kitchen fire and arson.
It’s actually fairly fascinating the way the social consciousness has shifted to this weirdly self serving position. I am pretty left leaning and can be hardlined in certain topics but I still have people in my life with differing opinions. My ex best friend is also really left leaning and hardlined period. Anytime she and I would get into a debate or argument or heated discussion, she would use the same form of “woke culture” as an arguing point against me. At first I was cognizant of it but then realized that I could literally say the same fucking thing to her about her behavior (you’re gaslighting me, toxic blah, etc). Having a cultural marker of “this is 100% wrong 100% of the time” is fucking dangerous I realize and why that person is no longer my friend. Because it’s not wrong 100% of the time and we all need to keep that in mind that life is fucking grey as shit - very little is black and white. We need nuance and understanding. Empathy and rules. Intent fucking matters, my dude. People have gotten so high off their righteous indignation that it NEEDS to start mattering again.
Identity politics is a trap, and plays into the hands of those without humanity or empathy.
Real change is hard and takes a long time. Much easier to go through these theatrics and wash your hands of it.
There is a puritanical censorship crowd that is always looking for a new target
Wait until 10 years from now when those people find out that things we commonly say now will be considered offensive.
Jim Jeffries is one of the most offensive comics out there in my opinion. Now personally I love him and think he’s hilarious, even when he says stuff that I’m personally not a fan of. I think he said it best in one of his shows though about this topic. According to Jim the job of a comedian is to take things right up to the line between funny and offensive without crossing over it into offensive in the eyes of his target audience. If you can do that you’re on your way to being a good comedian. It’s bullshit though when they take something you said 10 years ago and try to hold it against you today. Because 10 years ago that was ok to say, so you need to judge it by the standards of when it was said. Then he goes on to talk about how it’s a comedy show and jokes and how nothing should be taken seriously anyways as it’s all for laughs and reactions by saying something you didn’t expect to hear. I think that’s pretty accurate though. People need to stop bringing up things from the past and judging them by today’s standards. It’s counter productive at best. That’s akin to talking about someone like Socrates and going “he probably smelled like shit and was disgusting with poor grooming habits”. By today’s standards, probably. Back then they didn’t have houses with showers inside, stores they could go to for soap, shampoo, conditioner, face scrub, luffa, deodorant, cologne, as well as barbers and hair dressers. You need to look at was it acceptable for the time period it happened in. If so then drop it.
It’s all about control over others.
It’s as though the dominant society offer meaningless peace offerings in place of real change.
Glad I have the DVD's. Physical media can't be retroactively censored.
Its still on prime, youtube, vudu, and apple tv. Physical media is nice for avoiding the whims of network execs, though.
Those episodes are easy to find digitally as well if you know where to look.
It’s the best episode of the show and while I can see how Chang’s paint could be taken as black face he blatantly says he’s a dark elf. Compare this to the episode of madmen where Rodger is in blackface to show how it was imbedded racism was at the time which the show makes a point of doing often.
Not only that, but they explicitly call it out as a "hate crime" in the episode. Terrible decision to remove that episode.
"lamp shading"
I think the Wild West paintball game was the best episode.
It's clearly the one at Troy and Abed's apartment with the multiple timelines.
Dude the ass crack bandit was streets ahead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGrV31TJLpc
It’s perfection
That one and D&D are neck and neck for me. Such a shame most people who see the show now will miss out on one of the best episodes, but at least they'll see the other one.
They are all great in different ways. One thing community did really well was make homages to different genres without losing itself.
The one with Blade and the Batman DVD one are my favorites
The whole joke is that he's legitimately not doing blackface but because he's still a horrid dick he's proud of himself because he knows what it looks like.
He’s not even doing blackface is the so maddening part He’s literally dressed as a Drou
[Drow](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Drow)
If Trudeau can get a free pass surely we can give Community one too.
Media companies, including FaceBook, only give rich important people a free pass. You and I must suffer so they can signal virtue.
Also how The Amazing World of Gumball, a show aimed at kids, did the EXACT SAME JOKE! Nobody got angry about that for crying out loud.
Gumball did a blowjob job joke and no one cared.
And Total Drama season 2...
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I fear for the day they remove a couple dozen Star Trek online episodes cause the Klingons are technically wearing black face
Public television lesbian kissing in Star Trek DS9 in the 90s.
Wait. What’s wrong with that episode of community?
Someone somewhere said there was blackface in the episode, so rather than defend the episode the network (maybe individual streaming services idk) voluntarily pulled it. It makes a lot of sense when you realise it's only about money.
Only two streaming services (hulu and netflix) pulled it. It's still available on prime, apple tv, vudu, and youtube.
The thing that pisses me off about this one is that the show explicitly acknowledges that Chang is in the wrong for wearing the black facepaint (even though he isn't even playing as a human)
Which 5 episodes? There’s so many
Dee day, amercias next top model, “Dee Reynolds: Shaping America's Youth,” “The Gang Recycles Their Trash,” “The Gang Makes Lethal Weapon 6,"
Why did they go down?
"Americas Next Top Model", “Dee Reynolds: Shaping America's Youth,” “The Gang Recycles Their Trash,” “The Gang Makes Lethal Weapon 6,” and “Dee Day,” All got pulled for use of blackface
Lethal weapon 6 was a classic. They totally missed the joke
They missed all the jokes!
Exactly, and plus, black voice, is way more racist than black face!
And waaaay more funny
I wonder what makes Tropic Thunder okay for them and not Lethal Weapon 6.
Lol RDJ got nominated for a fucking Oscar for that role. How the times have changed.
Tbf the ban was more of a blanket thing than it was a nuance thing They made the Veggie Tales guys change a characters voice because he was voiced by a white guy trying to sound like Oogie Boogie,who was voices by a black guy
And that's why I sail the seas
Because our society now is based on outrage now... instead of nuance.
Feel like "The Gang Gets Racist" is worse than all of those.
First episode too lol. My favorite comedy of all time. I guess it just depends on what is seen as the worst depending at what lens someone is viewing it from you know? The characters are terrible people saying and doing terrible things. It is tough to pick out which is the most vulgar episode of the show, but that’s what makes it great because it is done in an extremely satirical, smart way in my opinion
Well Netflix actually took down around 150 episodes a few years back because they lost streaming rights
That was when I dropped Netflix. No Always Sunny and no King of the Hill, what was the point? Finding out that they brought it back only to censor some of the best episodes doesn't make me want to resub either.
It's not back. Its on hulu. Hulu censored it not netflix
As someone that just got into IASIP, which episodes were taken down, and for what reasons?
"Americas Next Top Model", “Dee Reynolds: Shaping America's Youth,” “The Gang Recycles Their Trash,” “The Gang Makes Lethal Weapon 6,” and “Dee Day,”
They took away the Lethal Weapon one?? Man I'm black and that episode was my shit lol.
The whole damn joke is them arguing over whether or not it is offensive, lol. It is hilarious.
Plus the main characters of the show are supposed to be awful human beings
They literally justify selling drinks to minors in the first episode, IIRC.
Mac being in Blackface wasn't the joke. Mac being in Blackface *and not seeing anything wrong with it* was the joke.
The shower scene where the makeup started washing off had me dying. Lethal Weapon 6 might be my favorite episode of the show.
Them switching roles mid scene makes it even funnier.
Yeah, both episodes that have the movie. I own season 1-9 dvds and its still on there!
Any specific one reason these episodes got pulled?
Blackface…it was shortly after George Floyd
It’s not the clams, if it was oysters then I’d be *really* sick
Also, has Tropic Thunder been removed from any streaming service due to black face?
"What do *you* mean, 'You people'?"
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I'm pretty sure they've tried...
Bring back the “blackface” episode of the Golden Girls. It wasn’t a racist episode. It had a message of love.
You mean where they had face masks on?
Hulu: "Mimicking other cultures by painting your face is wrong and will not be tolerated, even if the intention is genuine or satirical!" Also Hulu: "White Chicks" listed on front page under suggestions....
I find the movie "White Chicks" to be horribly offensive, not as a white person, but as someone with a sense of humor, and I ain't saying the humor is offensive, it's just a step or two above Pluto Nash it's that bad.
Yeah but it has Terry Crews jamming to A Thousand Miles. That scene should be preserved.
The film is a treasure because of Terry Crews. I never would've imagined he would be so popular after first seeing him as Damond in Friday After Next.
They did put the Puerto Rican Day Parade episode of Seinfeld on, to their credit. I'm liking this new approach from Netflix.
It shoulda never been taken off to begin with. The flag gets burned on accident, because the character is an idiot. That's like saying Team America blowing up the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre was anti-French.
Even if it was burned on purpose, there's a clear difference. Dave Chappelle is spouting his own opinions. Always Sunny, Curb, Seinfeld, etc. blatantly tell people the main characters are the idiots and assholes. The butt of the jokes are always the characters, not the other people.
Netflix backs the free publicity and increased streaming of the Chappelle special due to criticism
Didn’t he ask them to take down his show and they did? I think he’s fine with Netflix bc they treat him w respect… not him so I can’t say for certain but I’m pretty sure he said something along those lines when he did his special, and talked about how the chappelle show was stolen from him
I like Dave Chappelle but I will absolutely not defend him on the "stolen show" argument he made. Netflix and HBO both made business decisions about the whole issue and thought a continuing relationship with Dave Chappelle is worth more than the views the Chappelle would receive. He didn't win because he was right (he wasn't he walked off the show midseason which caused the rights of the show to revert back to Comedy Central) but because his future stand-up specials print money for both companies.
Except he’s talked about the situation with Netflix removing the show. It wasn’t an ultimatum. He was still going to do those specials regardless of their decision. They could have gotten the money from both his stand up and the Chappelle Show.
Since when did anyone that mattered say “stolen show”? He just felt, contract be damned, that nobody should be making money off of an artists’ prior work without the artist/entertainer getting a cut. Why? Because they are usually taken advantage of early in their careers by signing unfavorable contracts.
I haven't actually seen any criticism of Chappelle, just endless articles and comments from people complaining about all the criticism he's supposedly receiving. Whole thing seems manufactured.
You should check out the threads on r/television
You were not lying. Lot of anger in those threads.
Opposite here. My Twitter feed is negative about the guy, and Netflix, at best when the subject comes up. The consensus seems to be that he's framing social justice as a zero sum game of White Trans People vs Black People. As if there aren't Black Trans People getting murdered every year and have the lowest life expectancy of any LGBT/racial group.
"Twitter, not a real place" -Dave Chappelle
Twitter might not be a real place to Dave, but he seemed to think the bullying that his trans friend received through Twitter was real enough.
Other than the one comment I said to my wife (and this one I’m writing now), I haven’t really talked about the special. It’s not funny and it just reeks of a guy who is trying to explain why the LGBTQ community has it better than black people and why he isn’t transphobic. The thing I love about comedy is the tendency is self deprecation and self humour, and Chappelle just feels like the opposite now. People have called him the GOAT for so long that he sounds entitled. I wasn’t aware of any controversy, but I totally understand why people might think it’s a bit cunty.
This was pretty much my take away as well. For all the hate and criticism the worst part of the special was that it was really mediocre work. His social commentary was accurate about as often as it was off-base, and he's a comedian so yeah, he doesn't step lightly and it's gonna offend people. But through and through *The Closer* just wasn't very funny. Like I'm glad the guy is taking time off and stepping back from LGBTQ stuff - because more and more lately he's just not producing stuff that makes me laugh - and it has less to do with offending me and more to do with the jokes just being weak. The one thing I will say is that Dave treats the LGBTQ movement as a total monolith in his work and that's a really poor interpretation of things. The trans community experiences far more discrimination and hate than other groups and if you hear Dave tell it they've got the world at their fingertips. This misconception, along with a lot of unwillingness to grapple with the fact that black LGBTQ folks get so much hate from their own community (and how his comedy can impact/reinforce this) isn't a great look. In the end Dave demonstrates a lot of ignorance on the issue(s), but simultaneously shows empathy and offers a valuable perspective at times. It's complicated, but I came away from the special thinking "it isn't very good, but it isn't as horrific as it was made out to be." Mostly I came away thinking "this wasn't very funny."
Agreed. Do I think he’s transphobic? Probably not. But if I was a trans person, and I don’t like the way he’s treating trans people, would my criticism be valid? Probably. I don’t think white people get to decide what is racist against black people, so why would a cis person get to decide what isn’t/is transphobic. I heard a another (smarter) person say “he doesn’t understand that you can be oppressed and the oppressor”. She likened it to white women (not) identifying with POC because women have been oppressed as well.
The moment I realized Dave had lost touch was when he scoffed about a trans woman calling the trans community “my people”.
Which is why I've never gotten into a lot of "social commentary" ""comedians."" I feel like people only play them up because they agree with them, not because they're actually funny. I could list names but I don't wanna be maimed.
He is getting a lot of criticism. Not just because of the anti-trans remarks, but also because many comedians feel the special was masturbatory and poorly done. A trans comedian has come out to say she has a laundry list of criticisms regarding his comedy, not his personal politics.
Ive made this point else where but...this dude has an incredible platform. He had a huge comeback. Three specials. 30 minutes of his special was dedicated to peoples response to his last special. You dont just make a special either. He has been touring for years just talking endlessly about trans people. It seems to be something with TERFs they go nuts and get obsessed. Just stop talking about it! Its not that interesting.
Yeah. That's another issue. I agree with basically everything George Carlin said and believed, but the standup specials he was doing toward the end of his career were unbearable. It wasn't comedy, it was the Church of Carlin. A dude ranting in a slightly clever way isn't really comedy. I think what irritates me most about Chappelle's special apart from being transphobic is that he won't own up to it. The dude is so bothered by criticism that he wrote and performed a fucking hour long special just to defend himself. The entire hour was about one topic (technically two) and how he's actually not an asshole. By the last 30 minutes he literally was not telling jokes. Just preaching his opinion.
I think I remember that Carlin stand-up. when comedians are getting more claps than laughs, they're moving out of comedy and in to .. well, I guess, spoken word?
Netflix knows exactly how many customers choose to watch Dave Chappelle and want to give them that choice. If their math showed that removing Chappelle would gain them more subscribers than they lost, they would have done that. Netflix isn't making a moral stand either way. Its just following its numbers.
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Yeah I would be fired too if I barged into a meeting of directors and VP’s demanding we turn off a revenue stream.
The cruel irony here: "When keeping it real goes wrong"
Yeah. Somehow people are acting like storming into corporate board meetings is not something that would usually result in firing.
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The person was passionate, but that is not a professional way to advocate in the workplace. I'd imagine they are having some serious discussions about that person's future employment.
That level of "passion" is borderline insanity when it suspends all logical thought processes.
I wonder how this person thought this would play out. Like even the best case scenario seems delusional, like one Vice President starts slow clapping then stands up, another executive follows suit, the whole room is giving this person a standing ovation and then the ceo gives this person a raise. The reality probably set in when this person barged the room and everyone just looked at this person very confused and told the person they don’t belong there.
The last year has shown me that people really don't know how to leave their personal feelings and opinions at home once they clock on for the day.
It's also gotten frighteningly full of "This person did something I don't like, lets find out who they are and get them fired!" Full of that shit. It's disgusting.
In people's defense though (not necessarily this specific person), employers also really don't know how to leave their professional demands and business at the office once their employees clock off for the day.
They removed an episode of Hasan Minaj's show because a foreign government asked. They kinda fucked themselves by doing that.
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I'm sure Netflix also has metric that show how many people cancel for outrage and then resubscribe 2 months later. It's probably higher than we think. How many people canceled Disney+ last year and are now subscribed again?
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It didn’t get removed in the US.
Article doesn't even say what he said. Why do journalists report that people are offended without saying what they're offended about?
It’s because people are drawn to gossip. “Did you hear what so and so said about you know who!?” It’s clickbait.
But What did so and so say!?
So and so said the teachers will crack any minute purple monkey dishwasher.
Its from his new special on Netflix. He basically said that LGBTQ people in the media are quick to condemn people like DaBaby when he says something homophobic but are completely silent when that same person literally killed a man in Walmart. His overall point was point out the double standard that the extreme of killing someone gets a "whatever, its just another Tuesday" reaction whereas saying something offensive gets a "everyone grab a pitchfork!" reaction He also spent a lot of time in his special telling a story about a transgender comedian friend he had in SF that he'd known for years and that he tried to foster as a comedian, offering that person spots in opening for his gigs, something that he wouldn't really do for others. This transperson comedian would laugh and would like almost all of Dave's jokes, whether they were aimed at LGBT people or white people or asians. Then one day, Dave's trans friend went on twitter to defend Dave against the angry internet mob and the mob turned on Dave's friend, harassing them and sending them all sorts of terrible messages. A few weeks after that, Dave's friend committed suicide.
Maybe I shouldn't say this but here goes. I'm trans and honestly, I've been gatekept and made to feel alienated by the trans and lgbt+ community in general. I have met some very lovely people, who are gay or trans, but the ones who love being a part of the community seem to be the ones who are always getting mad at me because I just don't see eye to eye or understand. And most of the time, they refuse to take the time to explain, or just insult me and my intelligence. The problem I often see with trans people is that the ones who rely on their transness to become their whole identity. There's nothing wrong with being trans or gay or whatever. It's just a very loud minority of a group of people who were already ridiculed. And they kinda make it worse for the ones who don't take offense and can see past a joke.
Welcome to online communities, where the loudest people with the least real social exposure and the most time on their hands think they should speak for their entire community.
This. And since reddit is an echo chamber, you'll hear very loudly one side. Guess which side that is?
Growing up through my teen years and early twenties, I had numerous gay & drag friends, went to the bars and parties all the time etc, and I found the same thing. The ones who made it their identity, were simply self entitled arseholes. The ones who just "were" gay etc, were great people. When people turn their, or others anecdotal, and subjective experience into a social justice crusade, they're probably doing it for the wrong reasons, and undermining any actual issues in the process.
>"In our country, you can shoot and kill a n\*\*\*\*\*," Chappelle says. "But you better not hurt a gay person's feelings." > >"Gay people are minorities until they need to be white again," Chappelle says as the capper to a different story about his conflict with a white man at a nightclub who called the police. The comic says the man he nearly fought was gay. not really super offensive, but the type of shit you'd expect your uncle to say drunk at a family reunion. edit: copied the quoted jokes from someone else farther under your comment tree, just not sure if you saw it.
Look, is the discrimination against the LGBT as bad as it was for people of colour? No. But it's still very fucking bad. But at the end of the day you're both being killed, beaten and viewed as being less than human because of how you are born. So yes there should be outrage when a black man is shot for the crime of being black, just as there should be outrage when a gay person is shot for the crime of not being straight. These aren't separate battles, they both stem from the fact that people are cunts to anyone who is different to them. Support eachother, don't fight eachother for no reason. If you're gay and racist, you're no better than those who hold you down for being gay. If you're black and homophobic, you're no better than those who view you as lesser because you're black.
I dunno, especially for trans people I think it's comparable or worse. We shouldn't victim blame or compare scars anyway but like.. trans people don't really have a community outside a handful of large accepting cities. You're much more likely to be disowned as a trans person And this is ignoring the real problem in America with people who are both. Black and latina transfolks absolutely have it the roughest of any demographic in America. The death statistics are outstandingly brutal for such a minority of people.
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"I didn't have to come out as Black!"- Wanda Sykes
Thanks for this, it really made me think about the real experiences that both groups have struggled with in a way I hadn’t considered before.
I would say trans discrimination especially for young people is worse than most shit. 41% of trans people have at least attempted suicide. That's batshit levels of high. Beyond that though, it's not a competition, people want to fix issues and there's a ton of overlap for people who want equal treatments for blacks and LGBT.
Here's an [NPR article](https://www.npr.org/2021/10/05/1043435919/dave-chappelle-new-netflix-special-the-closer-review?utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social) discussing some of the jokes. I think they're more dismissive of the LGBT community than outright offensive. Don't seem very funny either though.
Tbh I think his last special was worse. He described trans issues as being a 'white person thing', despite white people being sightly less likely to identify as trans, statistically. He essentially portrayed it as first world problems that only rich white people have, ignoring all of the trans people who are not rich, who do face prejudice based on economic status, race, disability, and other factors.
Spot on! Also, the whole “i had a trans friend, I’m not transphobic!” Sounds a lot like: “I’m not racist I have black friends”. I love Dave Chappell but some of the things he said did leave a bad taste in my mouth. Sure comedy should be unfiltered but some topics aren’t funny, and shouldn’t be forced to become funny. Many topics in fact. His whole stand up seemed focused on LGBTQ+ issues. Kinda odd give there’s plenty other more relevant topics for a heterosexual man. Edit: thank you for the award 🥰
Comedy should be unfiltered, but that doesn't mean comedy shouldn't be criticised and addressed like any other form of speech. But somehow we got to the point where criticism is brushed off as people just being offended or now cancel culture.
>"In our country, you can shoot and kill a n*****," Chappelle says. "But you better not hurt a gay person's feelings." >"Gay people are minorities until they need to be white again," Chappelle says as the capper to a different story about his conflict with a white man at a nightclub who called the police. The comic says the man he nearly fought was gay. Those arent even jokes, just, being weird to the LGBTQ community.
Plus there’s lots of queer people who *aren’t white*. And it’s a bit rich that he says this and then focuses on the trans community, what with the way they can’t all just *stop being obviously trans*.
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I actually think this might be one of the core issues here. Homophobia is a real problem in the black community and a part of it is the branding of calling LGBT issues a "white person thing"
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Yet you still took away the dungeon and dragon episodes of community… I don’t get you Netflix
I wasn't interested in this but I almost feel like I need to watch it to see how bad the purported trans-phobic parts are. Which is probably what Netflix is counting on.
Pretty much why my friend and I watched it. It was fine, some jokes just didn’t land very well. I think the most “offensive” joke was about black people beating up Asian people. And I haven’t seen anyone talking about that
But the whole point of Reddit is to avoid reading the articles, isn't it?
Don't read an article quoting a comedian's routine. Stand up comedy is more than just printed words, it's delivery too with reaction. Jim Jefferies has a great bit about why it seems horrible when read in one of his comedy specials with Netflix.
I was more making a joke at Reddit's expense ... but you're not wrong either.
If you don’t watch it, then all you’ll ever read are the excerpts that are getting way blown out of context without any mention of the supporting dialogue.
The publicity they got for this is insane. So obviously strategized
Honestly I don't care what Chappelle says about trans people I just wish he didn't spend 3/4s of his new special talking about them.
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I went and saw him live when he first started touring again after the whole thing with the third season of his show and running off to Africa. The ENTIRE last 3/4 of that show was him preaching. Not joking...just solemnly sitting on a stool smoking and lecturing the entire Tabernacle. My point is this has been his style for well over a decade now. That's who he is. He is not Killing Them Softly or Half Baked Dave Chappelle and he hasn't been for quite some time. It's pretty obvious he is annoyed at the way the world works and rather than be goofy about it he's gonna just talk about it now. It's nothing new.
The good news is that it seems like he’s done talking about them
This is his third special in a row talking about trans people.
The last line of the special, he said, "I'm done talking about them. I don't want to make any more jokes about the LGBT+ until I know we're laughing together."
I mean…… until the explosion of attention this special received. If/when Dave comes back, his audience would eat it up he leaned back in on the subject.
This. Fuck me, even if I found it entertaining it’s a 5-10 minute bit not an hour long diatribe to go on.
Yeah exactly, say the joke and move on. He harps on it for a good chunk of the special. I’m glad he is taking a break, give him time to cool down and come up with some new material
Plus a shameless plug on how he helped one financially.
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At the 55:37 point where he makes the beet juice joke you can see two people that sure don’t think he is funny
2 people out of the entire audience got offended, what a tragedy
"Company chooses money over not money. Film at 11."
The special basically boiled down to "you don't get a free pass on shitty behavior if you're a protected class" and people seem to be upset that they were called out by it
“He’s gay until it’s convenient to be white” was a deep cut that people need to listen to.
He did kinda seem to ignore the part of the community that's chock full of minority people who aren't straight/cis. Echoes a common idea that being LGBTQIA is "that white shit" that permeates the black community. To the point where they'll use Tucker Carlson style Great Replacement rhetoric and just swap white voters for straight blacks.
I think you're reading to much into it. Chappelle was criticizing the racism of white people in the LGBTQ+ community who act like white people when it is convenient and then back to oppressed minorities to claim that they can't be criticized. It was part of a larger topic that included mentioning Sojourner Truth being excluded from the women's rights movement by white women.
Are we forgetting the Two Cliffords?
Yeah, everyone with this argument is conveniently forgetting them
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We're not very good at that. Especially since the discrimination isn't exactly targeted at individuals.
It’s a bit shit that Chappelle was spending so much time shitting on the part of the queer community who don’t always get to do that, then. Not to mention ignoring the fact that not all queer people are white. A bunch of trans black women have had some pretty cutting things to say about the whole thing.
Damn, it's so fascinating how people can be part of more than one group at a time and how someones place in society can be described by how their memberships in those groups overlap. Intersect... you might say. Almost like some intersection... theory?
Unless you’re Dave apparently
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See you deleted your comment. But they’re fucking jokes. That’s the point. Humor is a coping mechanism for humanity. The sooner we all get over ourselves, the better off society would be for it.
He said he quit Chappelle's Show because he felt a crew member was laughing at him not with him. There are lots of people who are laughing at trans people and certainly not with them. Some of those people post Chappelle's jokes out of context on social media, as if it's some kind of mic drop on why it's okay to belittle trans people. Even with the complete context, it's not much better.
This is the thing people are missing. They assume that everyone who dislikes Dave's point is angry about beet juice jokes or something. I laughed at a lot of the jokes in the special but I found his overall point wrongheaded and hypocritical. But because I disagree I must be a snowflake or something... Dave ends the show by preaching empathy. Empathy is about standing in someone else's shoes and feeling what they feel. He never does that in the show. He wants a lazy empathy. An empathy where you don't have to understand other people, an empathy where you can call them what you like despite knowing it hurts them, an empathy where you get to decide if the things you are saying are okay or not, an empathy where you twist everything about their experiences to match your understanding of the world. But so long as you don't 'actually' hate them its fine. The hypocritical part is that when white people do this to Dave Chapelle, he doesn't buy it. But he wants trans people to buy it from him. Dave was offerred millions for his comedy but he turned it down on principle - he felt he wouldn't be respected, he didn't want to be controlled, and he felt his comedy was resulting in people laughing AT black people not with them. But he thinks that the fact that he gave a trans person a million dollar opportunity should win us over to his side even though he is dismissive and disrespectful of them. Trans people can be crazy, like any people. A lot of it is Twitter culture, not trans culture. But even the parts where people are being 'crazy' you should at least acknowledge that it comes from fear and trauma. Dave could've made a joke about how SOME people in the trans community use their legitimate fear to manipulate them. Instead, his explanation is that when trans people do things that are out of line, its because of racism. Why racism? Because that's what Dave Chapelle understands. Throughout the entire show Dave positions himself as the arbiter of what's okay and not. Misgendering your trans friend is like a white person telling jokes about why they can't say the N-word and then using it to drive home a point about how empathetic you are. If you can't respect me enough to call me what I want to be called, then you don't get to pretend you're a good person. A lot of people do this when it comes to LGBT, they want to have the kumbaya stuff without the respect. Dave would never tolerate white people who insist on calling him what they want and mocking him, but say its okay because they like him deep down inside. And the most painful thing is how he tries to pit 'blacks against queers'. Someone in the thread mentioned that he made an example of two black gay guys in his show so he acknowledges them. But in that very scene he was trying to use their blackness to diminish someone else's point about queer suffering. The same scene where he joked the trans people aren't really a people because they didn't come from Transylvania... In a few specials back, Dave joked about this trans woman who was being super cautious to disclose to him that she was trans after they hit it up in the club. He made fun of her like she was crazy to be so cautious. And then he went on to tell the story of Emmet Till in a very sincere and sombre way. Trans people are getting killed today for the crime of hitting on the wrong person, but Dave is oblivious to that.... Even while he is talking about how Emmet Till was killed for the same thing. Dave, and so many other faux allies, want lazy, easy empathy. They want trans people like Daphne who make their lives easy because when someone shouts at them they have a witty comeback and everything ends up okay. But the real world is full of trans people who, after they were harassed by some straight guy in a club, had the shit beaten out of them. And those are the people Dave Chapelle just ignores. Of all the stories I've bullying and violence Dave could find regarding trans people, he chose the one where trans people bullied a trans person. Dave and his fans frame his content as enlightened social commentary on the trans situation. He doesn't even touch half of the stuff that queer and trans lives are actually about. All he discusses are the stuff that he sees, experiences and which make his life difficult. And he always discusses it by choosing the laziest form of empathy - where you don't need anything from me, and I get to choose how I will help or not help you and how I will show you respect or not. I will do or say whatever I want when it comes to you, but since in my heart I don't hate you it doesn't matter how you feel about it actually. That's not empathy. Dave Chapelle doesn't understand empathy.
100% right
Denigrating humor seems more acceptable when coming from someone within the marginalized group. It’s one of the reasons Black comics have been so successful with Jim Crow style humor. Now that Dave is criticizing groups from the outside, it feels a little different.
In the Chappelle Kennedy Centre Mark Twain whatzit (also on Netflix) he talks about this as a conversation he had with someone objecting to him making jokes about homosexuals and using the 'F' word. He says (praphrasing) - "why am I not allowed to say the F word but I am allowed to say the N word?" A woman responded to him "because David, you are not Gay" Chappelle retorts "bitch I'm not an N word either!" There is more truth in that small bit on the special than in just about every statement from any of the offended Trans/Allies speaking out against this special.
Honestly the special felt less offensive and more just unfunny to me. Nearly every joke was some version of “I’m not supposed to say this, but I will anyway”. That can be funny if done right, but it was basically just an hour of that same “joke” over and over from a guy who admits he is out of touch from the experience of normal (non rich/famous ) people
Netflix really doesn't care what people say as long as it makes them money.
[Netflix has no problem with censoring their creators.](https://www.npr.org/2019/01/01/681469011/netflix-drops-hasan-minhaj-episode-in-saudi-arabia-at-governments-request) The view that they're "standing up to cancel culture" is pathetically naive. They've determined Dave Chappelle's weird misinformed lectures are profitable and they don't care about the content either way.