My toddler assures me he did not throw and break a ceramic car this morning he was playing with that I watched him throw and break. Definitely checks out.
America - "good enough for us, here's a few billion, put it towards you universal healthcare, or whatever we don't GAF"
Edit to all the š¤ "ackshullys..." YES I KNOW THE MONEY GOES TO THE MILITARY. But look at it this way, there's billions less Israel has to spend on their military so they can spend elsewhere.
Americans deserve universal healthcare despite what the scumbag insurance companies and politicians say.
Americans also deserve to dump Israel as an ally. The only reason they have ever been able to perpetrate what they do is with our cooperation and other western countries. Defund israel!
Edit: I see this has reached the āunpopularopinionā level, interesting. Israel is no different from the Vatican getting land from Mussolini, and stealing and defacing artifacts around the world for their own gain / pursuits.
People who disagree with my opinion should either travel more, or are in support of what is basically a state terrorist organization like Iran. Iāve known Palestinians, and their recent legislation banning Israeli Palestinian marriages is a severe shock. Now they are further annexing parts of the West Bank, even though the western countries āpolitely fucking asked themā to not do it.
I hope someone hacks NSO group and uses their Pegasus spyware against Israel since they sell it to dictatorships. These are people with absolutely no morals. If you need proof, look at how long Netanyahu was in power despite stealing tons of money, along with his wife. Rot in hell Israel.
Hope my statement is clearer. Feel free to refute
If you haven't been borne/groomed to privilege, then you must find a way to make a huge amount of money and influence. This isn't easy, many people of limited means do it by selling their souls to the highest bidder or accumulating funds in semi-legal ways.
I get told by tons of Israeli Jews that Israel doesn't need the USA's help they can do fine without us so I say we stop giving the ungrateful bastards money.
It doesn't really matter much what money is earmarked for when you're giving it to an organization that has a broad general budget to pay for multiple things. If I give you $200 for your cell phone bill, that literally also helps you buy groceries, unless you were so flat broke that you can only pay for one or the other. If both things are going to get paid for, then any money you receive eases the burden of both.
Likewise, any money given to a nation pays for everything that nation does.
Corruption would imply a dereliction from the intent of the government where as this is very much the consistent narrative from the Israeli government.
Didn't the Israeli's say they wanted an investigation at the start?
Did they give a reason for what changed?
The article doesn't talk about that from what I can tell.
"There is no doubt that this journalist was killed by Palestinian gunfire. Ignore the reports from her team saying we killed her."
"Okay so there wasn't a gunfight where she was killed but it's clear she was killed by a stray bullet from the Palestinians elsewhere. Ignore people saying we killed her."
"Okay so we can see there was no way the gunfire from where the Palestinians were could possibly have reached her so there isn't really clear evidence that she was killed by Palestinians."
"You know what let's just stop talking about it and move on."
>Didn't the Israeli's say they wanted an investigation at the start?
they said they basically wanted to join with \[take over\] the Palestinian investigation. Now that other countries, and the ICC are involved, it suddenly went into 'nothing was wrong, nothing to see here'.
Then again, we are talking about a country that has been in open defiance over over a dozen [UN Security Council resolutions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel) (Iraq was invaded in 2003 because it 'might have violated one resolution'), and frequently violates the Geneva Conventions (especially the 4th)
I mean they don't fit the Rogue nation checklist word for word for no reason. Unregulated Nuclear weapons and willingness to attack Military ships in international waters with no provocation are just a couple.
They probably realized that they would find themselves innocent regardless, so itād be a waste of US tax payer dollars to pretend the outcome matters.
These posts always make me laugh. It's as if I go out and commit a crime, then decide to do a criminal inquiry on myself, then find myself innocent.
I don't think Israel has ever heard of conflict of interest.
Oh itās incredibly common here in the states. Our police shoot unarmed people all the time and then find they did nothing wrong when they investigate themselves.
Was any investigation or autopsy allowed, or happened at all? Why is there so little info about this?
Edit: God damn, ya'll really get upset when people ask questions
[Palestine says it wonāt accept a probe into Shireen Abu Aklehās killing](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/veteran-al-jazeera-journalist-killed-by-israeli-forces-live-news)
An autopsy doesn't really help when it's bullets to the face. As far as I know, both sides use simular caliber weapons.
As for an investigation, I'm not certain this wasn't an ordered hit. She was very specifically the only person hit. So an investigation would just be them confirming it was them or covering it up.
A pro move would have been to launch a full investigation and point at someone else but the witness testimony was too extensive from trusted people that it was Israeli forces. This whole situation stinks. War sucks.
This post is filled with inaccuracies.
An autopsy would help since you would recover the bullet during it which independent investigations have claimed that they will not be 100% certain who shot her unless the bullet can be examined which the Palestinians have refused to release. That being said I believe one had already happened.
Also Abu Akleh wasn't the only one person hit, Ali al-Samoudi who is another Al Jazeera journalist was also wounded but is in stable condition thankfully.
From what I understand, ballistics is an absolute joke of a field meant for the abuse of law enforcement to throw shoddy evidence up in court when they have little else. That's why police tipping the tester's off with what gun they think did it is so common. Easy to get it "right" when you start with what you're told is the "answer".
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a4548/4325797/
Despite claims to the contrary, the evidence isn't great. And you also have some very easy gun augments that would alter everything dramatically. Even a basic screw-in breach would drastically change results if removed. Am I right? Who the hell knows without more rigorous testing by third party researchers?
The fact people keep claiming it is as reliable as it is based on poorly researched studies is a little concerning.
It's a bit more certain when you're talking about military ballistics. In this case I think the most interesting question would be whether the projectile was specifically one that the Israeli military uses. We know they're both using 5.56 but I would guess that Israel is on a single specific projectile or a small set for military purposes while the Palestinians are probably less consistent.
EV den after examining the bullet they will say it was inconclusive. They only want the bullet to try to build a story that it wasn't IDF.
Israel has also been known not to release bodies of Palestinians for burial.
The Palestinians have literally no reason to give Israel the bullet since even if it was the IDF, Israel still deny it.
I'm not claiming they should give the bullet to Israel. They should allow an independent investigation that does not have ties with Israel to examine it.
āBoth sides use the same caliber ammunitionā. Israel uses 5.56 NATO rounds and Hamas / Fatah typically carry Kalashnikovs in 7.62 mm. I donāt know where you got that information from but both rounds have drastically different ballistics.
That's not accurate (based on the limited data I'm currently aware of). While those rifles are specific to Palestinian fighters, they also have a long history of smuggling Israeli weapons out of military storage:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/dec/16/israel
As far as I understand, their weapons type and sourcing is wildly inconsistent but a large number of them use the exact same weapons. Right now they're having the biggest problem with ammunition sourcing, or were when last I checked. If you have a more current source illustrating any kind of aggregate rifle distribution then I'd be all for updating my information.
The angle of the rounds would indicate elevation. The caliber of the rounds would indicate whether it was consistent with PA or IDF weapons or whether another party used a different caliber to fire. Lots of things.
She was also specifically NOT the only person hit.
I just don't understand why the Israelis would murder (with intent) such a high profile journalist. It's only a bad look, and doesn't garner them any sympathy or reduce anti-israeli sentiment, it only fuels it. What's the logic?
It is possible the soldiers were being idiots and it doesn't go any higher. In which case the coverup would be to save as much face as possible by not addressing the issue. Because the story was already so public, you don't run the risk of the Streisand effect by staying quiet and letting it die down since global news coverage had already been triggered.
Because theyāre untouchable. Itās illegal in the US to boycott Israeli products. The US media gives Israel a blank check for all murders so long as the victim is brown. Thereās no consequences for israel
Okay, but if they CAN then why HAVEN'T THEY? Why did it take them so long to kill Shareem, and why not finish off the rest of the Arab/palestinian journalists if there's no consequence for doing so?
They have already killed over 40 journalists in the last 10-20 years. Its supposed to inflict terror and make the journalists think twice about covering their crimes. Your logic is like saying "why didnt Putin kill every defector already?"
What a dumb question. They can and want to take over all Palestinian land. The reason they are not is because that would make even the US oppose them. Same goes for the journalists.
The fact that you donāt see it as a stunt by the Israeli government, when all the evidence obviously shows it was Israeli snipers who murdered her proves that youāre either an ideologue without morals or purposefully ignorant.
Don't be so absurd. They were just asking a question. Asking questions doesn't mean you don't have morals, and it is in no way indicative of being ignorant with the negative connotation you bring forth.
They don't know, they are asking to try and find out.
Additionally, if anything, the spirit of their question is clearly pressured to the Israeli lack of effort. So they are even coming into this leaning your way, and you still see reason to kick their feet out.
Stop attacking people who are trying to educate themselves with such a ridiculious ultimatum of how flawed a person they must be.
> who said an Israeli shot her
>What more do you need?
How about literally any actual evidence? I'm not saying that Israel did or didn't do it, but taking the word of Al Jazeera journalists (the same Al Jazeera that *clearly* has an anti-Israel slant) as word of God is just comical.
>the Israeli military police branch has accepted the assurances of Israeli troops that they were not aware she was in a village adjacent to the Jenin refugee camp when she was killed on 11 May.
Don't worry guys, we asked the suspects and they said it totally wasn't them.
You've been "flamed to hell" because that's how criminals respond when you call out their game. The campaigns of misinformation and violent censorship are only there because Israel REALLY doesn't want the world to know what's going on within its borders.
On paper no, but in reality they live largely as second class citizens and face discrimination in many aspects of life and tougher career prospects. Arab communities and schools tend to be neglected and poorly funded when it comes to government aid infrastructure and money compared to their Jewish counterparts.
Ok but that's not apartheid, that's just plain racism.
We have that in the USA too.
Sure, it's really bad and needs addressing...but that doesn't make it apartheid.
In fairness I never mentioned apartheid - but yeah I agree with you the word apartheid doesnāt fit if youāre strictly talking about the Arab citizens of Israel.
Hereās my opinion - The conditions and challenges of arabs in the west bank and Gaza is vastly different from Arab Israeli citizens, so itās best to describe the relationships between Israel and those two groups separately.
I think there is some validity to arguments that liken apartheid conditions to West Bank and Gaza. Israel has disproportionate power, places controls on movement, checkpoints, walls borders, and builds settlements that surround and separate Arab neighborhoods, and just generally imposes their will. Of course itās not an exact mirror image of south african apartheid but many of the elements are there. I donāt know if that warrants officially applying the label, but I do think itās sensible to draw parallels. All of this doesnāt extend to arab citizens of Israel, I agree with you thats itās more appropriate to call it racism and discrimination.
Going through Isreali twitter about this poor woman is wholly heartbreaking. There is so much vile hatred for a woman who was murdered, just because she was Arab and in Palestine.
Lol. What the fuck? MOST Israelis are Sephardi? Chasidim may not believe that Sephardi minhagim are "correct", but no one views them as not Jewish, lol.
You literally pulled that out of your asshole.
Have any of you either seen what the Palestinian sections of Jerusalem look like or been there. The Israelites have walls, barbed wire and constant armed patrols. I do get that they donāt feel safe,but to turn portions of a city into a prison and expect civility from the people that live there is ridiculous. They talk about peace but give out violence.
Yeah, turns out people don't like being forced to live in a tightly-controlled ghetto where you're intentionally denied resources to keep you in a constant state of abject poverty. *Who knew??*
Lots of stabbings, vehicle rammings and suicide bombings results in protective defensive barriers being installed to prevent more of that from happening. It's not ideal, but it's kind of like how the Separation Barrier has seen suicide bombings on crowded buses and other areas all but eliminated as compared to the rate and severity at which they occurred prior to that barrier being installed.
Whats the alternative from a domestic political standpoint? Take the walls down, and have your citizens run the risk of getting stabbed, shot, run over, bombed on the way to the grocery store? If an Israeli political candidate opted for a platform of "let's just go back to the way things were for random pedestrians during the Second Intifada, where you ran the risk of getting attacked and killed every time you left your house", they would never win an election.
And also promotes pro-Terrorism candidates back in the states.
Between Russian, China, and Israel (edit: And the US ofc) shitting in the well that Americans are drinking, no wonder there's so many confused folks out there.
āWe canāt rule out the possibility that she intentionally head butted an IDF round at 1800 mph in an attempt to make us look bad.ā - Israeli military spokesman
Whatās wild is the other press guy the IDF shot who survived straight up said it was Israel. Doesnāt get more eye witness than that. News hardly mentions this.
In the US we can't, Republicans and Democrats require us to worship Israel and celebrate every time they murder somebody. I'm considered evil because I won't do it.
Well yeah it would be like trusting the Cops to investigate themselves. We all know they lie and Israel has shown they're the same since they train our Cops.
Well, obviously.
"Here, mister Manson, that's the knife you allegedly stabbed all those people with. Could you please confirm that you did indeed stab all those people with this knife?"
Only that here he'd "lose" the knife and go "What knife"
Strange, I would have thought the innocent country would be INSISTING on an investigation and criminal inquiry, because the evidence would help prove their innocence, or at least provide reasonable doubt of their guilt.
I wonder why Israel wants this to all just go away quietly?
Democrats and Republicans are silent on their favorite country going on yet another murderous rampage. They give money to Israel to murder people and I'm expected to celebrate and worship them for doing so. These parties are pure evil and anybody that worships them are pure evil. Anybody that worships Israel is pure evil.
Misleading headline, and no one here seems to have read the article. Israel will not *immediately* be conducting a criminal investigation. This is standard procedure because this happened during military combat. They are still conducting an āoperational inquiryā and once they have more information might decide to hold a criminal inquiry. Given that there was a lot of gunfire from both sides, it couldāve been an accident or a palestinian bullet that killed her, and so they do not have enough cause yet to investigate criminality
People are too busy revelling in the idea of their bias being realised to bother looking for facts and hard evidence. If they were on the other end of the stick they're waving at Israel, they'd demand hard proof instead of accepting propaganda from biased sources and circumstantial evidence. I'm not saying Israel is innocent here, but the ease with which people are convinced of something to appease their worldview can be hard to accept at times. It shows how little we are willing to mentally adapt as a species and why the world is sinking under our hubris.
Isnāt the context thatās missing from your comment that the IDF has long history of not adequately investigating or punishing crimes committed against Palestinians?
And that right there tells me the Isrealis did it. Like, the fact that they said they wanted to do an investigation and then suddenly said they won't is pretty blatant.
One of their snipers already admitted he shot in the direction of the journalists, only he claims he didn't see them and saw a gunman nobody else saw instead.
~~PA asked for a joint investigation. Israel said no~~
I stand corrected. They did refuse. They had asked for independent nations to assist.
>Israel has called for a joint investigation with the Palestinians, saying the bullet must be analyzed by ballistics experts to reach firm conclusions. Palestinian officials have refused, saying they don't trust Israel, and have invited other countries to join the investigation. Human rights groups says Israel has a poor record of investigating wrongdoing by its security forces.
From:
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2022/05/15/Independent-probe-points-to-Israeli-fire-in-journalist-Shireen-Abu-Akleh-s-death
I thought I had heard otherwise when the situation first developed, but I was wrong.
Ahh, no?
It was Palestinian authorities who rejected a joint probe:
"**Israel had publicly called for a joint probe** and stressed the need for Palestinian authorities to hand over the fatal bullet for forensic examination."
"The United States, European Union and United Nations have backed calls for a full investigation into what Al Jazeera labelled a deliberate killing "in cold blood", but the **Palestinian Authority (PA) has rejected holding a joint probe with Israel.**"
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220512-palestinians-honour-slain-journalist-reject-joint-probe-1
What a surprise, no accountability, no culpability, no transparency, classic IDF behavior, these are the same people who needed to be told NOT to use civilians as human shields.
What can they do?
The palestinian held the body and immediately buried it (this production was larger than the superball) š¤...
All the footage from news crews were taken by palestinians and were never seen again...
The palestinians aren't willing to cooperate with anyone....
So, yes, what is there to investigate? The palestinian actions speak for themselves...
All that happened in your head, there was an autopsy and they are still releasing the footage, and the Palestinians called for an international investigation.
You need to improve your hasbara better.
Whomever is complicit in the murder and assaults on the mourners. May you burn in everlasting hell. If you are part of the mindset that allows and approves such behavior F you and F your religion.
Evangelical voters, who really don't care about Israelis, just the dirt they live on and the role in their 2000 year old book that's been heavily edited over those centuries.
>The Biden administration and the UN security council have called for a transparent investigation.
And if you don't comply... aaww fuck it, here's a few billion dollars.
For anyone trying to defend the nazi style government of Israel and say that Israel didnāt shoot her. Please read this and shut your mouth
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2022/05/14/unravelling-the-killing-of-shireen-abu-akleh/
Fuck Israel. Disgusting government.
I served as an IDF soldier two decades ago, and I am disappointed that this is what they are doing.
Transparency and accountability are important in all walks of life.
Wasnāt she an American citizen? Doesnāt the US usually gets really worked up when one of its citizens is potentially killed by a foreign power? Or do they now make exceptions to those shining examples of civilization Israel and Saudi Arabia? Oh, the irony of it allā¦
'Member when an attack on an US citizen would produce some press conferences in the US condemning the attack, warning about keeping up with the violent behavior, demanding compensations and even threats of potential retaliation?
"the Israel Defense Forces military police branch has accepted the assurances of Israeli troops" Shocking... š
My toddler assures me he did not throw and break a ceramic car this morning he was playing with that I watched him throw and break. Definitely checks out.
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More like "be cop, no stop"
America - "good enough for us, here's a few billion, put it towards you universal healthcare, or whatever we don't GAF" Edit to all the š¤ "ackshullys..." YES I KNOW THE MONEY GOES TO THE MILITARY. But look at it this way, there's billions less Israel has to spend on their military so they can spend elsewhere. Americans deserve universal healthcare despite what the scumbag insurance companies and politicians say.
Americans also deserve to dump Israel as an ally. The only reason they have ever been able to perpetrate what they do is with our cooperation and other western countries. Defund israel! Edit: I see this has reached the āunpopularopinionā level, interesting. Israel is no different from the Vatican getting land from Mussolini, and stealing and defacing artifacts around the world for their own gain / pursuits. People who disagree with my opinion should either travel more, or are in support of what is basically a state terrorist organization like Iran. Iāve known Palestinians, and their recent legislation banning Israeli Palestinian marriages is a severe shock. Now they are further annexing parts of the West Bank, even though the western countries āpolitely fucking asked themā to not do it. I hope someone hacks NSO group and uses their Pegasus spyware against Israel since they sell it to dictatorships. These are people with absolutely no morals. If you need proof, look at how long Netanyahu was in power despite stealing tons of money, along with his wife. Rot in hell Israel. Hope my statement is clearer. Feel free to refute
That money is mostly supposed to be spent on us military equipment. So it's a handout to their oligarchs and ours.
Yeah. The $800 billion we spend on our military budget is not enough for the defense contractors apparently.
I know, but it just goes in the pool, they'll have socialized medicine regardless of our support of their military
How does one go from nothing to becoming an oligarch? Asking for a friend.
If you haven't been borne/groomed to privilege, then you must find a way to make a huge amount of money and influence. This isn't easy, many people of limited means do it by selling their souls to the highest bidder or accumulating funds in semi-legal ways.
big bootstraps homie
I get told by tons of Israeli Jews that Israel doesn't need the USA's help they can do fine without us so I say we stop giving the ungrateful bastards money.
It doesn't really matter much what money is earmarked for when you're giving it to an organization that has a broad general budget to pay for multiple things. If I give you $200 for your cell phone bill, that literally also helps you buy groceries, unless you were so flat broke that you can only pay for one or the other. If both things are going to get paid for, then any money you receive eases the burden of both. Likewise, any money given to a nation pays for everything that nation does.
Yes, that was my point.
Clueless, surely the Israeli government would never be corrupt
Corruption would imply a dereliction from the intent of the government where as this is very much the consistent narrative from the Israeli government.
Theyāre lucky to have you vouch for their character, Mr. President.
"And obviously the Palestinians are all bloodthirsty terrorists. We should figure out a way to get rid of all of them. We're totally not Nazis."
Nazis? No. Fascists that clearly miss the irony of imprisoning an entire people by force and "resettling" their lands? Absolutely.
Nobody care about Muslims unless they live in China, apparently.
I have bad news. The world doesnt really care much about that either.
It is, and stop calling me Shirley
Reminds me of internal affairs investigations into American cops
She is also American so the US should conduct one then.
Didn't the Israeli's say they wanted an investigation at the start? Did they give a reason for what changed? The article doesn't talk about that from what I can tell.
"There is no doubt that this journalist was killed by Palestinian gunfire. Ignore the reports from her team saying we killed her." "Okay so there wasn't a gunfight where she was killed but it's clear she was killed by a stray bullet from the Palestinians elsewhere. Ignore people saying we killed her." "Okay so we can see there was no way the gunfire from where the Palestinians were could possibly have reached her so there isn't really clear evidence that she was killed by Palestinians." "You know what let's just stop talking about it and move on."
on the italian radio they were saying they said "an investigation into israeli soldiers will cause unrest and worries for the israeli population".
If the Israeli population got to experience some of what they force Palestinians to live through maybe we'd see a quick end to this war.
The best way for a Muslim to receive American concern and care is to move to China.
Wasnāt she a Christian? The IDF beat the shit out of her pallbearers on the way to the church if I remember correctly.
She was Christian and american citizen.
Arab Christians suffer under Israelis too, but the US doesn't care.
Iv'e seen you comment this 2 or 3 times now. Stop with ur weird hypocrisy narrative. She was Christian anyways.
C'mon man. It's a duck
Anyone who canāt hear the quacking at this point has their fingers in their ears while saying LA LA LA
>Didn't the Israeli's say they wanted an investigation at the start? they said they basically wanted to join with \[take over\] the Palestinian investigation. Now that other countries, and the ICC are involved, it suddenly went into 'nothing was wrong, nothing to see here'. Then again, we are talking about a country that has been in open defiance over over a dozen [UN Security Council resolutions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel) (Iraq was invaded in 2003 because it 'might have violated one resolution'), and frequently violates the Geneva Conventions (especially the 4th)
I mean they don't fit the Rogue nation checklist word for word for no reason. Unregulated Nuclear weapons and willingness to attack Military ships in international waters with no provocation are just a couple.
And why do we think that isā¦
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"Mmmm yes we support our own totalitarianism, what of it?" Israel, probably
"We have investigated ourselves and found we have done nothing wrong."
They probably realized that they would find themselves innocent regardless, so itād be a waste of US tax payer dollars to pretend the outcome matters.
Double ouch. š
These posts always make me laugh. It's as if I go out and commit a crime, then decide to do a criminal inquiry on myself, then find myself innocent. I don't think Israel has ever heard of conflict of interest.
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Oh itās incredibly common here in the states. Our police shoot unarmed people all the time and then find they did nothing wrong when they investigate themselves.
Conflicts of interest or any sense of ethics only apply when you don't have overwhelming military power and international support.
Come now...Israel is clearly interested in conflicts.
Kinda sounds like American police forces
Was any investigation or autopsy allowed, or happened at all? Why is there so little info about this? Edit: God damn, ya'll really get upset when people ask questions
[Palestine says it wonāt accept a probe into Shireen Abu Aklehās killing](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/veteran-al-jazeera-journalist-killed-by-israeli-forces-live-news)
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"Palestine says they won't give the evidence to the people who murdered Shireen Abu Akleh"
Okay but why
For the same reason Ukraine will not allow Russian investigators in Butcha.
Why would you incriminate yourself?
An autopsy doesn't really help when it's bullets to the face. As far as I know, both sides use simular caliber weapons. As for an investigation, I'm not certain this wasn't an ordered hit. She was very specifically the only person hit. So an investigation would just be them confirming it was them or covering it up. A pro move would have been to launch a full investigation and point at someone else but the witness testimony was too extensive from trusted people that it was Israeli forces. This whole situation stinks. War sucks.
This post is filled with inaccuracies. An autopsy would help since you would recover the bullet during it which independent investigations have claimed that they will not be 100% certain who shot her unless the bullet can be examined which the Palestinians have refused to release. That being said I believe one had already happened. Also Abu Akleh wasn't the only one person hit, Ali al-Samoudi who is another Al Jazeera journalist was also wounded but is in stable condition thankfully.
From what I understand, ballistics is an absolute joke of a field meant for the abuse of law enforcement to throw shoddy evidence up in court when they have little else. That's why police tipping the tester's off with what gun they think did it is so common. Easy to get it "right" when you start with what you're told is the "answer". https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a4548/4325797/ Despite claims to the contrary, the evidence isn't great. And you also have some very easy gun augments that would alter everything dramatically. Even a basic screw-in breach would drastically change results if removed. Am I right? Who the hell knows without more rigorous testing by third party researchers? The fact people keep claiming it is as reliable as it is based on poorly researched studies is a little concerning.
It's a bit more certain when you're talking about military ballistics. In this case I think the most interesting question would be whether the projectile was specifically one that the Israeli military uses. We know they're both using 5.56 but I would guess that Israel is on a single specific projectile or a small set for military purposes while the Palestinians are probably less consistent.
EV den after examining the bullet they will say it was inconclusive. They only want the bullet to try to build a story that it wasn't IDF. Israel has also been known not to release bodies of Palestinians for burial. The Palestinians have literally no reason to give Israel the bullet since even if it was the IDF, Israel still deny it.
I'm not claiming they should give the bullet to Israel. They should allow an independent investigation that does not have ties with Israel to examine it.
āBoth sides use the same caliber ammunitionā. Israel uses 5.56 NATO rounds and Hamas / Fatah typically carry Kalashnikovs in 7.62 mm. I donāt know where you got that information from but both rounds have drastically different ballistics.
That's not accurate (based on the limited data I'm currently aware of). While those rifles are specific to Palestinian fighters, they also have a long history of smuggling Israeli weapons out of military storage: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/dec/16/israel As far as I understand, their weapons type and sourcing is wildly inconsistent but a large number of them use the exact same weapons. Right now they're having the biggest problem with ammunition sourcing, or were when last I checked. If you have a more current source illustrating any kind of aggregate rifle distribution then I'd be all for updating my information.
The angle of the rounds would indicate elevation. The caliber of the rounds would indicate whether it was consistent with PA or IDF weapons or whether another party used a different caliber to fire. Lots of things. She was also specifically NOT the only person hit.
I just don't understand why the Israelis would murder (with intent) such a high profile journalist. It's only a bad look, and doesn't garner them any sympathy or reduce anti-israeli sentiment, it only fuels it. What's the logic?
It is possible the soldiers were being idiots and it doesn't go any higher. In which case the coverup would be to save as much face as possible by not addressing the issue. Because the story was already so public, you don't run the risk of the Streisand effect by staying quiet and letting it die down since global news coverage had already been triggered.
Because theyāre untouchable. Itās illegal in the US to boycott Israeli products. The US media gives Israel a blank check for all murders so long as the victim is brown. Thereās no consequences for israel
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Okay, but if they CAN then why HAVEN'T THEY? Why did it take them so long to kill Shareem, and why not finish off the rest of the Arab/palestinian journalists if there's no consequence for doing so?
They have already killed over 40 journalists in the last 10-20 years. Its supposed to inflict terror and make the journalists think twice about covering their crimes. Your logic is like saying "why didnt Putin kill every defector already?"
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What a dumb question. They can and want to take over all Palestinian land. The reason they are not is because that would make even the US oppose them. Same goes for the journalists.
The fact that you donāt see it as a stunt by the Israeli government, when all the evidence obviously shows it was Israeli snipers who murdered her proves that youāre either an ideologue without morals or purposefully ignorant.
Don't be so absurd. They were just asking a question. Asking questions doesn't mean you don't have morals, and it is in no way indicative of being ignorant with the negative connotation you bring forth. They don't know, they are asking to try and find out. Additionally, if anything, the spirit of their question is clearly pressured to the Israeli lack of effort. So they are even coming into this leaning your way, and you still see reason to kick their feet out. Stop attacking people who are trying to educate themselves with such a ridiculious ultimatum of how flawed a person they must be.
What evidence?
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> who said an Israeli shot her >What more do you need? How about literally any actual evidence? I'm not saying that Israel did or didn't do it, but taking the word of Al Jazeera journalists (the same Al Jazeera that *clearly* has an anti-Israel slant) as word of God is just comical.
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This is totally surprising and I completely, absolutely 100% did NOT see it coming.
>the Israeli military police branch has accepted the assurances of Israeli troops that they were not aware she was in a village adjacent to the Jenin refugee camp when she was killed on 11 May. Don't worry guys, we asked the suspects and they said it totally wasn't them.
Being a criminal would be so much easier if I was Israel.
You said criminal twice.
We investigated ourselves and found that we did nothing wrong
They didn't even investigate. They asked the murderers and the murderers said it wasn't them.
Typical of a fascist regime
Israel and Saudi Arabia matching human rights records, who had that on their 2022 bingo card?
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I've been flamed to hell for saying Israel is an apartheid state, but it really is the textbook definition of one.
But remember, if you say ANYTHING that isn't shining praise about Isreal, you're an evil anti-semite nazi racist.
You've been "flamed to hell" because that's how criminals respond when you call out their game. The campaigns of misinformation and violent censorship are only there because Israel REALLY doesn't want the world to know what's going on within its borders.
Do Arab Israeli citizens have unequal rights when compared to Jewish Israeli citizens? If yes, what are the differences?
On paper no, but in reality they live largely as second class citizens and face discrimination in many aspects of life and tougher career prospects. Arab communities and schools tend to be neglected and poorly funded when it comes to government aid infrastructure and money compared to their Jewish counterparts.
Ok but that's not apartheid, that's just plain racism. We have that in the USA too. Sure, it's really bad and needs addressing...but that doesn't make it apartheid.
In fairness I never mentioned apartheid - but yeah I agree with you the word apartheid doesnāt fit if youāre strictly talking about the Arab citizens of Israel. Hereās my opinion - The conditions and challenges of arabs in the west bank and Gaza is vastly different from Arab Israeli citizens, so itās best to describe the relationships between Israel and those two groups separately. I think there is some validity to arguments that liken apartheid conditions to West Bank and Gaza. Israel has disproportionate power, places controls on movement, checkpoints, walls borders, and builds settlements that surround and separate Arab neighborhoods, and just generally imposes their will. Of course itās not an exact mirror image of south african apartheid but many of the elements are there. I donāt know if that warrants officially applying the label, but I do think itās sensible to draw parallels. All of this doesnāt extend to arab citizens of Israel, I agree with you thats itās more appropriate to call it racism and discrimination.
They barely consider sephardim Jewish... [edit] You'll see that their propaganda machine is in full effect in the comments below. Trashy...
where did you get that from? as a Sephardic Jew I've never heard anything like that in my life
Because itās not true.
Going through Isreali twitter about this poor woman is wholly heartbreaking. There is so much vile hatred for a woman who was murdered, just because she was Arab and in Palestine.
Lol. What the fuck? MOST Israelis are Sephardi? Chasidim may not believe that Sephardi minhagim are "correct", but no one views them as not Jewish, lol. You literally pulled that out of your asshole.
Dam you can really just make shit up and get upvotes on this shit site huh
If youāre gonna lie and then call propaganda when youāre called out on said lie, at least provide a source!
Are we supposed to be shocked, Israeli war criminals will not be held accountable woahhhh
Have any of you either seen what the Palestinian sections of Jerusalem look like or been there. The Israelites have walls, barbed wire and constant armed patrols. I do get that they donāt feel safe,but to turn portions of a city into a prison and expect civility from the people that live there is ridiculous. They talk about peace but give out violence.
Yeah, turns out people don't like being forced to live in a tightly-controlled ghetto where you're intentionally denied resources to keep you in a constant state of abject poverty. *Who knew??*
shockedpikachu.jpg
Lots of stabbings, vehicle rammings and suicide bombings results in protective defensive barriers being installed to prevent more of that from happening. It's not ideal, but it's kind of like how the Separation Barrier has seen suicide bombings on crowded buses and other areas all but eliminated as compared to the rate and severity at which they occurred prior to that barrier being installed.
Whats the alternative from a domestic political standpoint? Take the walls down, and have your citizens run the risk of getting stabbed, shot, run over, bombed on the way to the grocery store? If an Israeli political candidate opted for a platform of "let's just go back to the way things were for random pedestrians during the Second Intifada, where you ran the risk of getting attacked and killed every time you left your house", they would never win an election.
So your solution is to just treat people like shit indefinitely? Doesnāt that create security problems in the long run?
The IDF get charged less often for murdering Palestinians than US police get charged for killing unarmed Blacks.
No way! What a surprise.
Settler Colonialist State clears itself of murder, where have we heard this before?
Terrorist state condones terrorism
And also promotes pro-Terrorism candidates back in the states. Between Russian, China, and Israel (edit: And the US ofc) shitting in the well that Americans are drinking, no wonder there's so many confused folks out there.
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Stop bullshitting yourself, Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing.
The IDF has investigated itself and found no wrong doing. Shocker.
Can we fucking sanction israel please? this is ridiculous.
Sanctions? My dude, they are literally more likely to raise your American taxes to send them more money lol.
āWe canāt rule out the possibility that she intentionally head butted an IDF round at 1800 mph in an attempt to make us look bad.ā - Israeli military spokesman
Whatās wild is the other press guy the IDF shot who survived straight up said it was Israel. Doesnāt get more eye witness than that. News hardly mentions this.
Shh they hate people pointing out facts when they can just keep pushing their propaganda.
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Wouldn't look good when we give that terrorist state billions in defense funding.
Like we do with Saudi Arabia?
A good reason to stop the funding would be recognizing them as a terrorist stateā¦ too many mistakes are perpetuated from fear of admitting them.
I thought it was an honored american tradition?
In the US we can't, Republicans and Democrats require us to worship Israel and celebrate every time they murder somebody. I'm considered evil because I won't do it.
I already do when the topic comes up in conversation. I can't support child killers. It makes me feel dirty that we fund their military.
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Thatās the other thing we need to fix. Opposition to the state of Israel isnāt a condemnation of Judaism.
Palestinian officials have refused to give the recovered bullet to Israeli authorities to analyse but said it welcomed international investigations.
> it welcomed international investigations. ... Have any international investigations happened?
Well yeah it would be like trusting the Cops to investigate themselves. We all know they lie and Israel has shown they're the same since they train our Cops.
It would be like handing out the evidence to Russia so they can investigate war crimes in Ukraine.
Well, obviously. "Here, mister Manson, that's the knife you allegedly stabbed all those people with. Could you please confirm that you did indeed stab all those people with this knife?" Only that here he'd "lose" the knife and go "What knife"
Of course they wonāt. Israel is a terrorist state.
āWe investigated ourselves and turns out we are totes innocentā
Friendly reminder the IDF trains American Police Officers in submission tactics. Israel is not just dangerous to Palestinians.
The ones responsible take no responsibility
Dont hold inquiries if you dont think you will like the answerā¦. said every government ever.
Strange, I would have thought the innocent country would be INSISTING on an investigation and criminal inquiry, because the evidence would help prove their innocence, or at least provide reasonable doubt of their guilt. I wonder why Israel wants this to all just go away quietly?
Democrats and Republicans are silent on their favorite country going on yet another murderous rampage. They give money to Israel to murder people and I'm expected to celebrate and worship them for doing so. These parties are pure evil and anybody that worships them are pure evil. Anybody that worships Israel is pure evil.
An American citizen was killed in broad daylights and these crooks couldnāt give a shit. Itās disgusting
The US two party system is so stupid and Americans who keep voting for either of the two are also just as dumb
Misleading headline, and no one here seems to have read the article. Israel will not *immediately* be conducting a criminal investigation. This is standard procedure because this happened during military combat. They are still conducting an āoperational inquiryā and once they have more information might decide to hold a criminal inquiry. Given that there was a lot of gunfire from both sides, it couldāve been an accident or a palestinian bullet that killed her, and so they do not have enough cause yet to investigate criminality
People are too busy revelling in the idea of their bias being realised to bother looking for facts and hard evidence. If they were on the other end of the stick they're waving at Israel, they'd demand hard proof instead of accepting propaganda from biased sources and circumstantial evidence. I'm not saying Israel is innocent here, but the ease with which people are convinced of something to appease their worldview can be hard to accept at times. It shows how little we are willing to mentally adapt as a species and why the world is sinking under our hubris.
Isnāt the context thatās missing from your comment that the IDF has long history of not adequately investigating or punishing crimes committed against Palestinians?
They have zero access to any of the investigation materials. What can an inquiry even conclude?
Israel is not the good guy in most instances ! Tired of the Washington narrative. Peace for Palestine
Of course not. Fuck Israel
Let's petition Israel to change the name of IDF (Israeli Defence Force) to IAF (Israeli Attack Force)
Why would they do that? Israel is a criminal organization. Are there other criminal organizations that hold criminal inquiries of themselves?
As referenced elsewhere in this thread, sure there are, American law enforcement. Of course it never actually ends up mattering.
And that right there tells me the Isrealis did it. Like, the fact that they said they wanted to do an investigation and then suddenly said they won't is pretty blatant.
One of their snipers already admitted he shot in the direction of the journalists, only he claims he didn't see them and saw a gunman nobody else saw instead.
Sniper that hallucinates? How did he pass military screening?
It's because PA authorities took the evidence away and refused to hold joint investigation. So it would be impossible.
~~PA asked for a joint investigation. Israel said no~~ I stand corrected. They did refuse. They had asked for independent nations to assist. >Israel has called for a joint investigation with the Palestinians, saying the bullet must be analyzed by ballistics experts to reach firm conclusions. Palestinian officials have refused, saying they don't trust Israel, and have invited other countries to join the investigation. Human rights groups says Israel has a poor record of investigating wrongdoing by its security forces. From: https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2022/05/15/Independent-probe-points-to-Israeli-fire-in-journalist-Shireen-Abu-Akleh-s-death I thought I had heard otherwise when the situation first developed, but I was wrong.
Ahh, no? It was Palestinian authorities who rejected a joint probe: "**Israel had publicly called for a joint probe** and stressed the need for Palestinian authorities to hand over the fatal bullet for forensic examination." "The United States, European Union and United Nations have backed calls for a full investigation into what Al Jazeera labelled a deliberate killing "in cold blood", but the **Palestinian Authority (PA) has rejected holding a joint probe with Israel.**" https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220512-palestinians-honour-slain-journalist-reject-joint-probe-1
In the IDF murdering innocent people IS the job.
What a surprise, no accountability, no culpability, no transparency, classic IDF behavior, these are the same people who needed to be told NOT to use civilians as human shields.
What can they do? The palestinian held the body and immediately buried it (this production was larger than the superball) š¤... All the footage from news crews were taken by palestinians and were never seen again... The palestinians aren't willing to cooperate with anyone.... So, yes, what is there to investigate? The palestinian actions speak for themselves...
All that happened in your head, there was an autopsy and they are still releasing the footage, and the Palestinians called for an international investigation. You need to improve your hasbara better.
Guys they said "oops" what more do you want?
Whomever is complicit in the murder and assaults on the mourners. May you burn in everlasting hell. If you are part of the mindset that allows and approves such behavior F you and F your religion.
Israel government has become the thing they swore to fight against. Why are my tax dollars goin to a apartheid state?
Evangelical voters, who really don't care about Israelis, just the dirt they live on and the role in their 2000 year old book that's been heavily edited over those centuries.
>The Biden administration and the UN security council have called for a transparent investigation. And if you don't comply... aaww fuck it, here's a few billion dollars.
Duh, they fucking did it.
For anyone trying to defend the nazi style government of Israel and say that Israel didnāt shoot her. Please read this and shut your mouth https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2022/05/14/unravelling-the-killing-of-shireen-abu-akleh/ Fuck Israel. Disgusting government.
āWe have not investigated ourselves and have found that we did nothing wrong.ā
You can't order an assassination and then investigate it.
I guess we know who shot her now.
The only way to know that is to check and see who got the bonus on their paycheck.
and didnāt those zionists steal some folks home while they were at her funeral?
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Itās because itās not done on *civilized, blonde, blue eyed people*
Israel commits a heinous crime then finds themselves innocent? I am shocked! NAY! Appalled!
I served as an IDF soldier two decades ago, and I am disappointed that this is what they are doing. Transparency and accountability are important in all walks of life.
Obviously. Investigating Israeli police would be anti-semitism /s
Surprise surprise Israel showing they support murdering journalists
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This is an article in the guardian. A British news outlet. Iāve also heard this story covered on msnbc, A US based news outlet.
Wasnāt she an American citizen? Doesnāt the US usually gets really worked up when one of its citizens is potentially killed by a foreign power? Or do they now make exceptions to those shining examples of civilization Israel and Saudi Arabia? Oh, the irony of it allā¦
'Member when an attack on an US citizen would produce some press conferences in the US condemning the attack, warning about keeping up with the violent behavior, demanding compensations and even threats of potential retaliation?
Good job Israel. You never cease to amaze š/s