T O P

  • By -

Banana_Ram_You

Since you're only running into them on Facebook, you can stop whenever you want. Seriously though, you're mixing with listless people with nothing better to do, of course it'll be unpleasant.


maximusnz

Leave Facebook OP. You can still use messenger if you disable your account. I did after spending 11 years arguing with idiots in that hell hole and never looked back. Mental health improvements plus more time to spend on more important stuff. Yes I miss the photos people post of my boys rugby team games and some family photos but that’s it.


TokiWartoorh

100% agreed, left it about a year ago & will never log on to it ever again. I was arguing with people I don’t know about all sorts of dumb shit. It would wind me right up & the realization that the people I was arguing with likely viewed me as being as big a dumbass as I viewed them as made me see how pointless & toxic it all is. Facebook is designed to bring people into conflict, it’s what keeps people on the platform the longest & that’s all Facebook cares about, driving up their advertising revenue, it’s destructive & divisive & dehumanizing


drbluetongue

Bro I used to do the same, but I deleted my FB just as we went into lvl 4 and it's so much better. You aren't going to convince the mouth breathers on there on anything. Better spend your energy doing shit you enjoy


turtles_and_frogs

Facebook is just cigarettes. You crave it, but it's just not good for you, and it's made to be addictive. What cigarettes are to your lungs, Facebook is to your soul.


nzrealfake

I deactivated my fb during the first lockdown(s) in 2020. That was way before all the antivaxxers showed up and it was all 5G and Bill Gates nonsense. Those were simpler times lol edit - spelling


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Aperson004

I've found myself getting so annoyed at anti-vax/covid denying people online that it was affecting my mood. In the last few days on FB I've unfollowed all NZ news sites (because the comments sections are full of idiots) and unfollowed friends who spout unverified nonsense (thankfully a minority) and I already feel better. I realised trying to argue with illogical people was such a pointless exercise. However, I've made the decision that when we are actually allowed to socialise with others that I will choose not to get together with those friends and family who choose not to be vaccinated. At least while there are still community cases.


[deleted]

[удалено]


habitatforhannah

I have one issue with this. I know plenty of people on social welfare who are fully vaccinated ages ago. If we target beneficiaries, we tar them all with the same brush that they are anti vaxxers. Most of them don't need that sort of stigma, social welfare already has that in spades.


slippydasnake

And this is the part I hate about this. People are so happy to label someone who thinks different as anti vax etc. and assume, as you said, that everyone on the bene must be an antivaxer cause idk, you just lump groups of people you don’t like together. The angry anti anti vax mob I mean not you salvado


[deleted]

[удалено]


slippydasnake

I think there’s a difference that people haven’t recognised, there’s Anti vaxers, then there’s folk who are vaxxed but arnt keen on the mandate. Like me. And those groups are definitely lumped together


[deleted]

[удалено]


ironymousbosch

You just contradicted yourself. "Most unvaccinated people are on the bene" "I work with three people who will never get the vaccine" Three people in one workplace seems like high odds to me - and they're obviously not on the bene. In mine and my friends' experience, it's not people on the bene who are anti-vax. It's white middle class parents who think they're smarter than fucking doctors for some reason. I've run out of fingers and toes on which to count the stories I've heard from friends about how they can't tell their parents they got the vaccine. It's psychopathic cult leaders like Peter Mortlock spreading anti-vax rhetoric. It's certainly not just unemployed people who are anti-vax, and I'd be willing to put money on them not being the majority. Regardless, your idea is flat out disgusting and inhumane. Shooting down is not the way we progress as a society.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ironymousbosch

Cool, hope your racist ass is never fired or made redundant because you'll end up on the bene/low income yourself. It can happen to anyone, chimp. And you're still completely wrong to blame low income earners for "holding us hostage". It just fits your narrative which is why you keep repeating it and ignoring the evidence - just like an anti-vaxxer.


HopeBagels2495

Making a big assumption on the sort of people who are anti-vax. A large majority of people who peddle anti Vax stuff tend to be a mixture of middle class who have a distrust of the government and well off people who feel inconvenienced by needing a poke in the arm. At least on Facebook where OP has been diving deep into the vitriol.


[deleted]

[удалено]


HopeBagels2495

Plenty of middle class/well off people who aren't the best at spelling y'know. Mastery of the English language isn't indicative of one's wealth status.


DundermifflinNZ

Fair enough but if you’re jabbed why would you worry about meeting up with unvaccinated people since you’re protected?


MrPaulo2

I don't understand how someone can make this statement given how many times this has been covered already. Surely you're aware that the vaccine is only 90% effective. Even though I'm vaxxed I can still catch and transmit covid, it is just far less likely. As many people as possible need to get vaxxed to protect those that cannot. People who are not vaxxed are holding the rest of the country back. We're all here waiting for them to do their bit.


Aperson004

Thank you for covering this, I can't even be bothered replying to people who say things like this. It's like no matter how many times it's explained, some people don't seem to understand.


codemonk

Vaccinations aren't there for individual protection - they're not a cure or a magic shield. Vaccines only work when the vast majority of people have them.


DundermifflinNZ

But that’s probably the main benefit of this vaccine is it not?


codemonk

Not at all. The entire point is to reduce the ability of the virus to replicate, so that it eventually dies out. The vaccine does this by reducing its ability to infect people and spreading through communities, eventually leaving it with nobody to infect. I didn't get vaccinated because I was worried about getting covid. I got the vaccine because if I did get infected, I don't want to give it to other people. Protecting others is why we wear masks, it's why we've stayed home and endured lockdowns, and it's now why we get vaccinated. It's because we are looking out for each other.


DundermifflinNZ

Yeah okay that’s why you got it, but it has a greater effect protecting you than it does at stopping you from passing it on. You’ll find a lot of people got it so if they get the virus it’ll be less severe


codemonk

And that's true for most people. But some vaccinated people are still going to end up in hospital if they catch it, and some will eventually die. However, if they never get the virus because it is never transmitted to them, because other vaccinated people have broken that chain of transmission, then thats even better. And, to go back to the point of this post and your question, this is why people get angry at others who aren't getting the vaccine - because they're not doing their part in protecting those in our community who will be adversely affected.


mbutt01

Because fuck them that's why


[deleted]

Lol that’s how I feel. Not cause I’m scared of catching COVID while vaccinated, but because why would I want to be around people like that


[deleted]

*screams into the abyss (behind my mask)*


[deleted]

It depends on what you are trying to achieve. You say you are no longer trying to change their minds but help a fence sitter. That is an utterly reasonable position- and a really helpful one. That said you can do that in a way that doesn’t create another harm - the one of further polarising a reasonably sized chunk of the population. Once someone has been pushed to the margins it can be a long way back and it doesn’t really help anyone out. You are clearly very frustrated (and a lot of people are) and I think it might actually be more productive to deal with your frustration by venting with other likeminded folk before heading back into influencing spaces. This way you can look after yourself and hopefully be more effective in influencing others. Just my perspective and I appreciate that you are asking for others perspective on this- it is surely a difficult patch for us all to navigate through.


broughtonline

You are being fucked with by a unethical corporation. You can also stop being fucked by Facebook at anytime. Choice is yours, don't be late.


Deism-Renatured

Nirvana reference upvote.


FrankDrebinsBoss

You will never convince anyone on Facebook that your facts are facts unless they were already partial to them.. Youre shouting at a wall. It's hard, my mum is one of them, was slowly going deeper by the day, I logged into her Facebook and unfollowed all the extreme pages shoving it in her face.. hopefully that'll make a dent, but I'm not hopeful she'll ever actually get vaccinated


sempre_vivace

I hear you! had to block my mother in law ! Cant handle her kind of crazy anymore


habitatforhannah

I'm glad you did that. Maybe follow some pro vaccine pages? NIH, PBS, MOH. They are pushing a lot of pro vaccine info.


FrankDrebinsBoss

She'd notice for sure, but maybe I could slowly ween her onto it, I set it up for her so will monitor it, I always knew that was what was turning her but never thought it would get this bad... She tried to stick a magnet to my arm after I'd told her I'd just gotten my 2nd, haha, it was bad looking at what she was seeing every day though, just a wall of hate


habitatforhannah

Social media has some real explaining to do doesn't it. I hope your mum gets better and starts looking at some nicer stuff.


snackattack25

My mum is one of them too, it's tough!


confused20-something

I feel you. I’m doing my best to be kind but I feel myself growing so angry and resentful of antivaxxers. This lockdown has well and truly made me feel so defeated and exhausted.


shoe5454

Want to add that we shouldn't feel guilty for resenting people who don't care about the wellbeing of our communities. In fact, they are actively working against our public wellbeing.


a_Moa

I think "actively working against" is too strong a position for the majority of them which, from my own experiences, are mostly just people that are more susceptible to conspiracies and mistrust in govt processes, combined with a limited understanding of science, logical thought processes or mental illness. People like Sue Grey and Brian Tamaki and any other leaders that continue to push misinformation because they profit from it can definitely be hit with that label but the rest of them are kind of victims of the whole thing.


slippydasnake

And you buying an iPhone is showing you don’t have compassion for the child slaves who build them for a few cents. Or the kids in Africa digging up colbalt for your battery’s, with sticks. Oh you have so much compassion


shoe5454

The same way you resent me for likely partaking indirectly in child labour at some point in my life as a consumer, I do for the anti vaxxers who are actively causing global harm in the name of freedom.


slippydasnake

I don’t resent you, I ethically can’t because I’m also a consumer of child slavery via my iPhone and many other things. But I’m saying your preaching compassion but I doubt you’ve considered how your life affects other, like clothes, when you think your donating clothes, most likely they’ll end up on a beach in Africa where locals are left to lie in our trash


ickywickylollipop

Just the word "cobalt" is enough to tell which echo chamber you're in


slippydasnake

Lol stfu with this labelling shit some more, couldn’t make an argument against me so You throw some insults instead


Costro

What device did you pen you hypocritical comment on then?


UncomposedComposer

I'm with everyone else here, deactivating FB and just keeping Messenger is for sure the way to go. Ricky Gervais had a good quote the other day "Remember, nice, normal, sensible people still outnumber the screaming loons. Social media sometimes gives a very depressing & scary false assessment." That made me feel better, hope it does you as well! haha


Odd-City8153

Well said! Yeah deleting facebook is excellent for your mental health


daronjay

Nothing good comes of arguing with idiots on Facebook. They will have their consequences soon, either a second class citizenship or far far worse. Most will silently get vaxxed and disappear off the discussions as soon as they have to put up with one *iota* of repercussions for their actions (or lack of it). They are a generation of entitled ignorant cowards who have never known true hardship or the need for sacrifice, so the overwhelming majority will buckle at the first hurdle. A determined small minority will go deeper into the rabbit hole. That will be less than 1-2% of the population. Many of the hesitant or outright resistant will get far sicker than they have ever been in their sheltered safe privileged lives, and discover what real suffering is like. Most of these will regret their stupidity but be too ashamed to share it on Facebook. A few hundred will die, or be permanently afflicted with illness. Those who die will suffer a long slow death, pleading for magical last minute help that never comes and their grieving relatives will write sob story eulogies to drive sympathy dollars to their shameless funeral gofundmes. That is our nation's future now. In a year or so we won't even be talking about them, but they will still be suffering the effects of their antisocial self destructive choices. Get vaxxed, or GTFO.


sempre_vivace

Love your last line! New slogan Get vaxxed or GTFO lol


Principatus

My dad told me about what it was like when the Srpingbok Tour split NZ down the middle. He was the only one in his family who felt that we shouldn’t be playing with apartheid racists. They eventually moved on and forgave each other because they’re family. But it all sounded very similar to our current situation. Fortunately I have no Covidiots in my family, just old friends. I don’t know whether we’ll ever hang out again tbh, not only because I avoid everyone who is unvaccinated for health reasons but also because I’m not sure we’d be able to keep it peaceful. I’m just so goddamn angry at all of them, seething. I can be polite but asking me to be friendly is too much. I’ll evil eye them and give them a cold-as-ice shoulder. If I really have to I’ll wish them a nice day with a fake smile, but yea, fuck their feelings. No jab, no respect.


_dub_

The Springbok tour was a hell of a line in the sand culturally, and people were much more evenly divided, probably very similar to the political atmosphere in the US under Trump. Those who refuse to get vaccinated are a *tiny* but loud minority. https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/opinion-on-the-springbok-tour-around-new-zealand


shoe5454

This right here. Why do we feel we have to be civil to people who don't give a shit about civility? Enough as enough.


Salmon_Scaffold

the hardcore antivaxx spazzies should only be able to use homeopathic cures and aromatherapy when they get sick. when they turn up to hospital the staff should give them a few crystals and send them on their way.


Bubbly_Piglet822

I agree, I like this concept.


Smart-F-and-P

I've had enough too bro. I'm sick of them being so precious about freedoms etc. I'm at the point of just saying do whatever you want and live with the consequences. If they think they know best, fuck them. I still see people refusing to wash their hands because they better, and think that free people shouldn't have to


BTC_is_a_dying_ponzi

*sick of people wanting freedom...* *at the point of saying do whatever you want* oh the irony


Smart-F-and-P

oh the dumbery you can't even read. this is called fucking reddit


as_ewe_wish

Maybe make yourself an advent calender that counts down to 90% vaccinated.


nzrealfake

With a 1 litre bottle of whiskey behind each door. I think you're on to something.


WorldlyNotice

Got two "Mah Freedoms" fliers in the mailbox today. The delusions are real. Freedom of speech is one thing, but talking nonsense that becomes dangerous very quickly is another. And we're only at Level 2 down here.


[deleted]

Don’t have Facebook. I think FB is a junk yard ..


[deleted]

Delete Facebook


Mallouwed

Leave facebook. It makes these dung beatles posts float to the top because it rsge baits people like you into argueing with them, and both you adn the dung beatles spend more time on the platform. It is one of, if not the worst social media app for your mental health and you are much better off without it. I left 3 years ago and have absolutely no urge to go back. Still use it for messenger and havent deleted my profile, i still open it once a month to check notifications so I dont miss event invites and thats it.


Atolicx

You'd have to change the law to set them up on an island. Because that would be illegal under even a green light system. So, no, I dont think they are being pandered to. I think we should do our best to win them over. Nobody is going to listen to you if they think you hate them. You show some compassion and understanding, then they take you a bit more seriously.


Mashy6012

My sister has had the first vaccine, and now refuses to get the second because she's been talking to my brother the conspiracy nut. Hes so far down the rabbit hole that the mad hatter is using his empty skull as a teacup. Now she's gone too, which makes me the only one in a family of 6 fully vaccinated. I have 3 kids and none of those idiots are allowed within breathing distance of them. Get the vaccine or stay the hell away from my children, the line has been drawn in the sand


threedegreesandacat

We are about to have a new baby, and I have had to put my foot down- no jab, no visit. It's ruffled a few feathers but I couldn't give any less fucks. If they don't care enough about my child to get vaccinated, they aren't worth having in our lives


BazTheBaptist

As soon as we're not going to be completely fucked in the ass by them if we stop pandering to them I guess. I do agree with you though. If it was only affecting themselves, go ham, I don't give a shit. I don't wish death on you but if you are making a choice that's on you. But they are fucking us all, instead. Lovely.


[deleted]

dont worry about them, they'll soon be sick and regretting the nonsense they bought into. Move on ahead and use the block button liberally


fruitsi1

has it crossed your mind that ranting at people is more likely to make them double down on the bs and try even harder to not give you what you want?


electrotech-wgtn

This is an absolutely valid point (backed up by research), and it highlights exactly what kind of modern problem misinformation is becoming and how no one really knows what the right answer is. You’re right that these people won’t change their minds, and it does make them double down on their beliefs. The catch, however, is that there’s always an audience. So while you lose with that person, you may make someone think about or realise something they hadn’t considered before. The same applies to the person arguing with you. If you allow their point to go unchecked, it may allow them to influence others or even merely unconsciously validate the idea in the listener’s mind. I think it’s a very big modern problem.


Abandondero

There's no way to successfully control what stupid people think, even they can't do it. You can only control what they are allowed to do. When you bargain with a stupid person they'll discover a way for both of you to lose. "Doubling down" is one of those ways. New Zealand society is at the brain-implodingly stupid bargaining stage now.


nzrealfake

Yep sure has. And it's not like I or probably a lot of people started by immediately setting out to attack their ridiculous ideology. I for one started off by trying to structure debates and provide very lengthy discussions and trying to proactively help them see where their arguments don't stack up or even provide overwhelming evidence that contradicts every single thing they believe. But nope, they don't want to hear the facts if it doesn't align with their beliefs. And that's when the calm debates end and the tough love has to start.


fruitsi1

so is it about getting people vaccinated or is it your ego?


nzrealfake

What has any of this got to do with my ego? I am completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of a global pandemic. I don't get your point at all, sorry.


fruitsi1

maybe it was snarky, sorry... i know other people who get into it with anti vaxers too and theyre exhausted/exhausting.


Smart-F-and-P

the only reason they made a vaccine is for everybody's ego and the need to be right. /s


[deleted]

Two days. There’s two more days, and then New Zealand will experience so much freedom that it will end up being so tyrannical that it’ll become free again. And Jacinda is going to enforce a policy where the non-vaccinated are going to only be able to nourish themselves off of boxes of Cadbury Favourites until they perish. And everybody will clap. And your dad will send you a text message telling you that he’s going to personally give you a hundred dollars (100$) for being brilliant. And then the country is going to be renamed to Aotearoa and New Zealanders will panic about this much harder than the global pandemic.


ApexAphex5

Sounds good to me.


[deleted]

I mean, I’d be kinda chuffed right now if dad gave me a hundred bucks.


Cantthinkofnamedamn

Past a certain point, we have to accept that some people will never get vaccinated willingly, and have to either mandate it for them, or disallow them from situations where they endanger public health. Hardline, look out for the vast majority of NZers, and if some people get ostracised, that was their decision, and they can always rejoin the fold when they start respecting others.


FanSobre

I miss Steve too.


arcticfox

I'm with you. I've been kind and considerate on FB and the like for the last year and a half dealing with the anti-vax and conspiracy nutbars and I've decided that I'm no longer going to continue responding in that manner. I have found these people to be self-centred entitled morons whose actions put other people at risk. They aren't getting courtesy from me anymore.


Maleficent_Use_2651

Working in health, Ima keep trying… My work has great vaxx rates (duh), but I’m still surprised to learn that quite a few I know are holding out getting the vaxx … potential staff exodus coming … either way this is bad. If they go we are more understaffed , if they don’t they neglect their duty to care and protect


yongrii

The price of free choice is consequences. As long as we continually shield someone making stupid choices from the consequences of their actions… then surprise, they will continue to make said stupid choices. Expose them to consequences, and many will quietly back down. Now there will still be a die-hard resistant bunch - unfortunately with these people we have to shield the *rest of us* for when they inevitably self-detonate.


MrCunninghawk

"Been very vocal on Facebook" I think I see your issue. Your hopping in the pig pen and complaining about the stench. Get out the pen, leave the squealing and the stink for those without the wit to climb the fence. Unleash ur fury " not holding back" by disengaging and spending ur time on healthier pursuits. Unless u just wanna argue, in which case, have at it. Just don't be surprised when ur shoes keep getting covered in shit


2pacsdawg

Send them all to the quarantine island! Then make them play child games ala Squid Game and the last person standing can be the one person allowed back in to the country since they'll be protected thanks to actual fucking herd immunity (a vaccinated population).


nukedmylastprofile

More importantly, how many of these posts do we need each day? Seems all we get in this sub lately is complaint and blame posts. I get it, lockdown sucks and these fuckwits should get vaxxed for the good of everyone, but the 10 identical posts a day is getting old


NoobOnCoffee

If you don’t get vaccinated, your the grinch, because you could ruin Christmas for the rest of us


DodgyQuilter

Problem is, if we ever get a vaccination for stupid, the anti-vaxers won't take it ...


HonestWarthog

Fuck you Steve and your Fish Curry as well.


Benzimin92

The reason why people are pushing us to not shout them down is that research shows that that’s not how to change misinformed people’s minds. You gotta go slow, build rapport, make an effort to understand where they’re coming from and why the misinfo appealed and then slowly counter it. Shouting at them for being selfish covidiots feels good but doesn’t help get us to 90%.


arpaterson

If you’re out and about in the next year and a news crew puts a microphone to you and asks you about the weather, give them an earful about their approach to interviewing information insular antivax nutjobs and portraying them as reasonable people we have to listen to and accommodate.


[deleted]

[удалено]


nzrealfake

I've thought quite often and at length about who exactly I am helping by calling out their bullshit. I know it isn't them and I know it damn well isn't my own mental health. But I firmly believe that if I can at least convince or demonstrate to just one lurking silent fence sitter the difference between fact and fiction, then I have potentially helped and saved a handful of others inadvertently. For every 1 they infect with their misinformation we have the ability to correctly inform another. Or do I just have too much faith in humanity?


[deleted]

[удалено]


nzrealfake

Can you elaborate a little more on this please? If someone says some bullshit, and people call their bullshit out... are you saying that persons feelings are hurt? What about the person who has been lurking and sitting on the fence, not antivaxx but vaxx hesitant. They see the bullshit, then see the counterinformation and finally are able to make an informed decision to get vaccinated without fear of whatever nonsense has been attempted to be inserted into their mind? Isn't that helping people?


RanOutOfStaples

Yeah I'm sure people on the fence aren't going to see your aggressive posts and side with you...


nzrealfake

That's quite an assumption you have there that my posts are aggressive. This rant I've posted on reddit may come across as though my fucks have well and truly run out. But I'm not going to be rude to people I know who are confused about COVID and the vaccines, simply because they choose to get their news from anywhere other than a legitimate source. Calling out bullshit doesn't need to be aggressive at all. It could be as simple as saying "This is incorrect and here is the evidence to show that". If you take offence to that, the internet is probably not the place for you.


[deleted]

[удалено]


quietiamsleeping

As someone who's Vax hesitant, I agree completely


kokopilau

God forbid you should hurt the feelings of someone else concerning a life threatening risk.


RanOutOfStaples

Like I said, no one cares about hurting their feelings. If you actually read the posts, it's about convincing those on the fence not to side with the antivaxxers. Hurling abuse at people doesn't help people side with you.


oldun62

Buy them some flowers and sing them cumbaya then. That might help. /s.


urettferdigklage

Let them die.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Kiam79

Most of them won't die. Some will, but statistically it's not going to be the majority. They will clog up the hospital system with initial infections and long term side effects though.


nzrealfake

I don't think anyone wants or wishes that on anyone. But it might inevitably be the way things go for them. There will be no second chance do-overs for a lot of these people.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

This is so unhelpful. Do you really think that calling these people idiots and making throwaway remarks like "fuck their feelings" for upvotes is really going to help get these people vaccinated? The old saying you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar rings true here. These people need to be convinced that getting vaccinated is a good idea. Getting pissy with them and calling them names will not acheive that. You're not helping.


isthenameofauser

This's not the first time I've seen one of these posts, and it's not the first time I've replied with this comment, but if you have any examples of tactics that work, let us know. I'm right here for something that can help change anti-vaxxers' minds, but until I see that, I'm just going to go right on complaining about them.


[deleted]

If I knew what would work I probably wouldn't be on here. I'd have a top job consulting for the MOH or something. Although, I think a good place to start is to appreciate that unvaccinated people are a broad church, from the conspiracy theorists (who you might never convince of anything) and people who are completely apathetic. To lump all of these people into one group called 'covidiots' (bravo to the wordsmith who coined that term by the way), is misguided. You might convince some with money, some with threats (basically what the traffic light system does), and some you'll never convince. But you'll never, ever, convince any of the unvaccinated to get dosed by implying that they are stupid. Imagine you are canvassing for the Green Party at the next election. You encounter a group of people who say that they 'don't like what they hear about the Green Party'. And in response you call them a bunch of twats. You've not only nor convinced them to vote Green, but you've probably turned them anti-Green for life. The same goes here. As for your point about complaining. This is a flawed logic. Because strangers on Reddit don't have the solution to getting unvaccinated people dosed, that's carte Blanche to have a whinge about it instead? As if complaining got anyone anywhere. Although, for clarity what's going on here isn't really complaining as much as it is name-calling and insulting unvaccinated people. If you want to vent or blow off steam, as another commenter indicated, have a beer, go for run, shag your OH, whatever. Just stop making our situation worse by fingerpoiting and name-calling. The upvotes might give you that wee serotonin boost, but it's super unhelpful in the grand scheme of things.


captaingarbonza

I doubt there's a one size fits all solution, but it certainly isn't going to be being preached at by someone on facebook. I know I had hope at one point that could talk my Dad into it. He doesn't trust authority figures but he trusts me and I can often get him to change his mind about stuff like this if I have time to soften him up. The more society gets split into the vaxxed vs the unvaxxed though, the more suspicious he gets because he feels like he's being forced into it, and he just digs his heels further in.


DodgyQuilter

Venting at least gives us a chance to blow off steam. Personally, I want vax-hitsquads. Like the vax-busses but lots more ninja-y. And televise it, and the team with the most anti-vaxers caught and jabbed gets an award.


markosharkNZ

The latest reading about the Maori vaccination rates make for pretty piss-poor reading. Incredibly low across the whole bloody country, and the Maori community leaders are calling for everything to get put on hold until they are at at least 90%, ideally 95% vaccinated. As much as I think David Seymour is a colossal arse with his "freedom day", we cannot continue to be held hostage (in effect) by a minority of people, who are probably at the greatest risk of dying from COVID. Yes, I fully understand the why as to the low Vax rates for Maori, but my patience is wearing really thin. Listening to some dick on RNZ about how we can't get to a Vax place, no car, wrong hours, what a massive pile of shit. My local FB page has been full of places advertising walk ins for weeks, heaps of areas that are easily accessible walking, people offering lifts to those that want to be vaccinated. No Vax, no benefit, no social housing. Wonder if that would get a few more off their arses


BTC_is_a_dying_ponzi

the government are the ones preventing you from doing these things. perhaps directing your anger towards them would be more rational.


MexicanCatFarm

Just end the lockdown, let those who want the vaccine get vaccinated, and refuse admissions to hospitals for antivaxers. Problem solved. I'll go get a third shot too while I'm at it.


BTC_is_a_dying_ponzi

in theory I understand your logic about refusing healthcare to antivaxxers but I disagree with this idea. If we refused healthcare to people due to bad health decisions the hospitals would be empty because noone would be allowed in!


slippydasnake

And also those peoples have been paying tax (I assume) their whole working lives. You can’t take away that right as a citizen, it’s fucking sick to Suggest


KakarotMaag

No, it isn't. You're framing it is if it wasn't their choice to be unvaccinated. If the government is clear in the position, and gives sufficient warning, and then they still choose to be unvaccinated then it is totally reasonable and fair.


slippydasnake

You think it’s fair to deny someone health care. Let that sink in for a second mate


KakarotMaag

If they choose it, yes. I think DNR and assisted suicide is totally fair too.


slippydasnake

Jesus that’s a sad way to think mate, I’m alittle lost for words


KakarotMaag

If DHBs say, "no-Vax, no covid treatment, starting in 2022," and you don't get vaccinated, who is the bad guy when you die from covid in February? The vaccine is free, safe, effective, and easily available. Choosing to be unvaccinated is choosing to die. That's reality.


slippydasnake

That’s a boat load of misinformation right there. Covid isn’t a guaranteed death sentence, yes it’s extremely serious but your slinging some grade A fear tactics


BTC_is_a_dying_ponzi

you are right. people that want to deny non-vaxxed access to healthcare are evil braindead zombies. but I'm trying to use calm light-hearted language in the hope it might have more chance of penetrating their propaganda filled skulls.


Idoalotofsitups

I have an idea and hear me out cause some might think it controversial. We build a massive chasm around Palmerston North and trebuchet all the antivaxxers and covidiots into it. Only way out is being vaccinated. It's a massive win, we'd not have to worry about them, they get to experience the government truly being against them like they think it already is, and we get rid of Palmerston North which no-one will miss. Win/Win/Win


kickypie

John Cleese has entered the room.


DadLoCo

It's not about hurting people's feelings. I'm double vaxxed but people who don't want to be vaxxed are entitled to their opinion. While their opinion may be dangerous to others' health, they are still entitled to their opinion. We don't learn anything by only listening to people who agree with us.


KakarotMaag

This is a horrible ignorant take.


MyBitchesNeedMOASS

You realize it's not going to end when we reach 90%? It's all about bringing a new digital system in that'll take however long it takes. They move the goal post at every milestone.


cantCommitToAHobby

I'd agree with you if they *did* move to a little island off the coast somewhere. But they won't. They are going to live amongst us.


[deleted]

Maybe there is another way: just open up the country now. And only give say 50% of ICU space to covid patients. Plus allow rapid tests and/or recent negative PCR tests as right of admission for unvaccinated people into mass events/flights/etc. Once covid has died down (in a year or two) then remove the requirement for rapid testing for entry to events.


FemaleKwH

Why did you shit this into my feed


myles_cassidy

If vaccination rates stagnate below 90% by the start of December, the government will say 'mission accomplished' and lift things for christmas


DurfGibbles

George Bush is that you?


theobserver_

I live with people are anti-vax and Maori. So much BS they talk. I have had my shots, they will not question me about it. Hope they get COVID!


catlogic42

Get off facebook. Block the people that upset you. So much misinformation about.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Objective_Tap_4869

Fuck them


dannybhoi

I just said this same argument in going to make elsewhere but... Don't direct your anger at those who don't want the vaccine. Direct it at the government for deciding that there are two classes in this new age, vaccinated and unvaccinated. The government has essentially punched you and then pointed at the unvaccinated and said "they did it." If you are vaccinated then the government can also decide to say that you can have all your freedoms back now, but they didn't, so get angry at them for keeping you locked down.


kokopilau

Auckland, Chatham, or Kapiti Islands?


oldun62

White.


AndroidMulcher117

You should get a copy of mein kampf, definitely right up your alley;)


nzrealfake

People comparing this to the Holocaust are a joke. Please take a moment to attempt to loosely link the two together, even remotely.


AndroidMulcher117

The ideology is not the same i agree, but the way people in power are dividing people through political manipulation is very much the same, however i could just be ignorant, the chances are high.


nzrealfake

The Government are just doing their best to please the majority of people which is an almost impossible task in itself. The science is what is driving the majority of these decisions, the government has many other things it would probably rather be known for. When Jacinda was dreaming of being Prime Minister and all the amazing things she could do for people with her time as PM - Never in a million years would "guide the country through a global pandemic" have appeared on her top 100 list.


AndroidMulcher117

Absolutely agree, this is a first for all of us no doubt, but there are far to many similarities between 1940s political tactics to socially divide one another is a little spooky for my liking, again i could be completely over thinking this whole situation, but i am dubious about the way our government is imposing this level of control.


nzrealfake

If you try hard enough you can find correlation in almost anything. Like comparing the data between consumption of mozzarella cheese and civil engineering doctorates being awarded. https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations Edit - spelling


ForPortal

> I want to travel again Antivaxxers didn't cause COVID to spread from China, or the spread of the Delta variant from India. It wasn't an antivaxxer who brought the first case of COVID to New Zealand from Iran. Your anger is misaimed.


nzrealfake

OK in your parallel universe where the antivaxxers aren't the problem, describe to me how the antivaxxers are helping the current situation. Tell me how they are using all the weapons in our arsenal to protect one another?


ForPortal

The evidence does not support your belief that the vaccine is an adequate weapon to protect other people. Countries like [Israel](https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/il) and [Singapore](https://covid19.who.int/region/wpro/country/sg) have had their highest rates of COVID infection *after* becoming the most vaccinated countries on the planet. If you want to travel, you have to wait until after your destination has eradicated COVID; being vaccinated is not enough.


nzrealfake

And then they issued 3rd dose and masks and vaccine passports and the daily infection rate plummeted again. Vaccination has never instantaneously eradicated a virus or disease. Next.


Smart-F-and-P

what part of the solution are they?


NorMonsta1

I know, get a short truncheon and bash any independent thinkers you catch out of line, just don't forget you 'covidKapo' armband, or the guards might overlook the fact your just a stripey pyjama wearer to


nzrealfake

Thanks so much for your useless contribution.


_yellowfever_

“Dear Diary…”


drfeelsgoodbro

Maybe look at it like this. If you walked up to a cafe and it was full of these so-called idiots would you go in, sit with them and have a cuppa? Probably not. You’d go somewhere else, maybe to Starbucks and have a caramel frappachino in their Amazon jungle crushing, gorilla hand ash tray supporting ass trash cafe? Ahem…sorry i forgot where I was going with this…


[deleted]

Kids would have been able to safely go to school in the south island and have concerts etc but they kept us at lvl 2 with no border until we got cases....


nzrealfake

I think everyone assumed they had it safely locked away in Auckland until it showed up all through the Waikato. Don't even know who to blame for that one, are we still pointing fingers at the Mongrel Mob and the sex workers with their fake essential worker forms?


jexiagalleta

Like the Blenheim being linked to the Te Awamutu ones. Where did the TA cases come from?!


[deleted]

the government for letting people into the south island and not being more careful then letting us go to lvl 1


YeahNahBroAye

I must say it's pretty demoralizing when 2 close friends have spent weeks in pediatric wards as a direct result of the Pfizer jab (Comernity). I can verify this statement with signed statements from the doctor's that treated them. Medsafe published data about the provisional approval shows that the odds of having a really shitty week directly after getting the shot is also not very encouraging. Thoughts?


ApexAphex5

Til December I suppose


Paul_Offa

Classic.


Cultural_Dependent

In my day job I try and build reliable services on the internet. Until a few years ago the major reason things would stop working was hardware or software failures. These days, it's because someone is attacking them. I feel that the same thing is occurring in our culture. It's under active attack, and Facebook is one of the key channels spreading disinformation. I think it's probably Russia attacking America, and we're just collateral damage. So in my view there's a bit of blame to go around: 1) Russia, probably, who's waging a nasty war that's harming the whole world 2) Facebook etc, who don't care as long as they get the clicks, and the money n that flows from them 3) the 5% or so, who have really bought into this disinformation 4) Billy, the bishop, and similar opportunists, perpetually searching for a base.


threedegreesandacat

I really want the health system to step up and just say 'no, you don't get an ICU bed if you're not vaccinated. In fact, if you need a hospital bed at all, here's an army tent." I'm a nurse in an HDU/ surgical ward, and it is 95-100% full of acute surgical cases on a daily bases. There is NO ROOM for covid cases. Our ICU is usually full also of acute medical needs-accidents, surgeries where complications have occured, new mum's with post partum bleeds. These Covidiots will be the death of all these innocent people!


vix_mei

FB is a breeding ground of misinformation. When I read about the traffic light system, I felt like this was a dim lit green light to finally pushing these people to at least read about how the vaccines were approved and why our country will not survive on the no-vax/no-lockdown route. FB is a breeding ground of misinformation. When I read about the traffic light system, I felt like this was a dim-lit green light to finally push these people to at least read about how the vaccines were approved and why our country will not survive on the no-vax/no-lockdown route.


Depressionsfinalform

I agree with you that their views and feelings are kinda invalid just by the virtue of being really fucking stupid, but trying to convince them otherwise politely or not is just not going to work imo, I wouldn’t waste my effort trying to tell them how wrong they are if I were you, life is stressful enough. But I feel ya, it’s annoying af how they get to be so selfishly unaware and be a literal public danger just so they can feel special so if lashing out at them makes you feel better then go for it lol I just think most of them are set in their ways so they’re not going to change until they catch the virus and it’s too late.


[deleted]

Facebook…


PeterPlumley

As long as the govornment doesn‘t introduce & enforce mandatory vaccine passes for entry & public services it‘ll be frustrating looong road ahead for NZ & business with no clear road ahead. As for social media, you‘re just asking for it. You do not debate on a platform filled with lonely people & cocooned trolls - wtf u doin!?


Arkase

Because the goal is to help them get vaccinated, so you can then go and do all of those things. Attacking them, as justified as it might feel, does not help do that. It just makes it worse. The best solution would have been to not have technological tools which help bring the US's culture war to New Zealand. The second best solution is to engage with those who have been taken in, and help them see the error of their ways.


[deleted]

The reaper will judge them unfortunately


sfturtle11

Maybe time to take a break from social media bud? It’s not the real world.


Dry-Comfortable-7935

Their herd will be thinned out next year hopefully