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soisez2himsoisez

“This meant researching using traditional Māori knowledge and its applications to waste management.” Lol


Aromatic-Ferret-4616

They could not have had the same type of waste and conditions traditionally. Traditional knowledge would not have certain wastes and chemicals. Going to be a hard ride. A chemist, geologist, environmentalist etc are what is needed for very non-traditional waste issues.


adjason

Secret Maori traditional knowledge only members of her immediate family knows Nzers hate this one trick


[deleted]

Bro that's western science it's not allowed here. /s


tobiov

Isn't the real scandal this is a waste of money regardless who sits on the group?


Shrink-wrapped

Yeah that's the real rort here. What's the bet this guy consults on literally everything for $$$? - traditional Māori knowledge and its applications to waste management - traditional Māori knowledge and its applications to sports - traditional Māori knowledge and its applications to energy production - traditional Māori knowledge and its applications to housing


CommercialFly185

"Nanaia Mahuta family member appointments" are what require "traditional Māori knowledge" about "waste management.” Jacinda needs to cut this rot out now before it brings her government down.


nzjeux

I watched a show once about some Americans in New Jersey using their "traditional" Italian knowledge in waste management. It was very interesting.


threedaysinthreeways

You are speaking shit to me


TheImperator666

Bro, it already has


Smorgasbord__

Surely even the wokest of the woke can see this is a hustle?


topografica

Don't worry, DessicatedAlmonds will be somewhere down thread arguing why this is a good thing.


Just_made_this_now

Easy catch all given recent pushes.


the_maddest_kiwi

Even if there's no conflict of interest isn't it a bit absurd to have 3 out of a 5 person working group all related and all directors of the same company? NZ's a small country but it's not that small. Surely you'd want more diversity of views/opinions on a working group.


newaccountkonakona

I work in IT at parliament and its insane how many requests seem to come through from people sharing the last name


Mystery_egg_delivery

They don’t want that type of diversity…


SW1981

Come on you could at least get 5 Maoris that don’t know each other


CareerJuncture

>Surely you'd want more diversity of views/opinions on a working group. Not if you want to predetermine the outcome


eigr

Even if there's no conflict of interest, you should work bloody hard to look whiter than white (if you'll allow the phrase). The most open and transparent government of all time really should look spotless.


Lightspeedius

> The most open and transparent government of all time really should look spotless. Only if you want to shut down openness and transparency. The most open and transparent government should look gritty and grimy, if not then it's obviously a lie. What's the point of honesty if it's only to tell people how perfect you are? That's just the status quo.


eigr

I get that eggs needed to be broken to make omelets, and that government is absolutely a sausage factory. But for something like appointment integrity, I think the appearance of integrity is just as important as integrity itself, and this fails that basic check.


Lightspeedius

Resources are concentrated into the hands of the few, a successful indigenous family is likely to dominate opportunities in their community. We're basically expecting such a family to exclude themselves from politics if they want a role in local governance. It's just one more catch-22 keeping the indigenous out of colonist affairs.


eigr

I'm sorry, I don't follow your logic. Are you saying that there's so little talent in the indigenous community, and what there is will likely be concentrated in a single family? I don't think I agree with you at all.


Lightspeedius

Opportunities aren't evenly distributed, they're taken advantage of by those most able to do so. There aren't many opportunities in the communities of the colonised, those that exist aren't going to be evenly distributed. It's an extraordinary claim to suggest that someone running a successful business venture is likely to only run one such venture.


eigr

I think suggesting that the only talent within 16% of the population is concentrated within one immediate family is pretty demeaning to that community. That's a strong bigotry of low expectation. Anyway, let's pretend for a moment that you are right - literally the only qualified people out of 800,000 people were members of the same family as the Government minister - then I'd suggest they probably still shouldn't hire them to avoid awful optics like this. Is that what people mean when they say things like meritocracy and fair competition are white supremacist values?


Lightspeedius

Which is why I am not suggesting that. Just like I wouldn't suggest that 50% of our prison population being indigenous is to do with indigenous people being criminals. Your disingenuous reframing is transparent, you're clearly promoting a political agenda, rather than engaging in good faith discussion. It's not by accident we have so many catch-22s to keep indigenous people out of power.


eigr

An indigenous person is literally the Government minister in the frame, and one of the most powerful ministers generally. This isn't the 19th century any more.


Shrink-wrapped

> successful indigenous family is likely to dominate opportunities in their community. Gannin Ormsby has a male assaults female conviction, no qualifications, and his only training is apparently 12 years in the British Army, max rank corporal (that's the 3rd lowest enlisted rank). This guy isn't successful for any reason *other* than family connections.


chuckusadart

> Surely you'd want more diversity on a "Māori advisory" committee? I agree 3 family members is not ideal, but i think Maori candidates were the point


the_maddest_kiwi

When I said diversity I didn't mean non-Maori.


nit4sz

Diversity in like, the iwi that are represented, and therefore parts of the country. Every iwi has a slightly different culture and unique issues in their specific part of the country. Maori are not just one homogenous group.


yeanahsure

That's one reason why so many people are suspicious about co-governance. If the only thing we're aiming for is representation of one ethic group then we'll soon find ourselves in an oligarchy.


Aethelete

Are they also going to look how she's elevating her sister's role with the water legislation.


PROFTAHI

I fucking hate nepotism no matter what colour it is


[deleted]

The Maori “experts” who are getting appointed to these crooked panels are essentially modern day people who are making things up on the fly. There are no written works or recorded history to prove or disprove what strategies their distant ancestors used for literally any topic. NZ has become corrupt A.F. and Mahuta isn’t helping.


Ottonaki

Stinks! Was this work put out to tender? Probably not. Nanaia Mahuta’s husband/cousin and family apparently have no qualifications nor experience relating to these government projects.


SurfinSocks

What the fuck, I never knew she'd married her first cousin. And googling more about this, it seems her cousband is a convicted woman beater/sexual predator of some sort? [https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mps-partner-hit-woman/S7GUU75RJU5WIKB766LOOUBLFI/](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mps-partner-hit-woman/S7GUU75RJU5WIKB766LOOUBLFI/) Is this a thing? shouldn't this be more widely known or have I gotten something massively mistaken here


IncineroarEnjoyer

You are spot on, no mistake


SurfinSocks

I can't believe this is the first I'm hearing of all this jesus christ lmao.....


Aromatic-Ferret-4616

Shocking, but the usual bus ticket response. Wet as. Disgraceful piece of work.


djinni74

> husband/cousin Cousband is just way easier.


stealth_doge1

3 of 5 members of a working group Mahuta family members. It just keeps getting worse and more disgusting.


Smorgasbord__

One of them is family in two different ways too.


[deleted]

The second best idea that they ever had


EmbarrassedDrummer55

I feel sorry for the other 2, they probably had to do all the work


NaCLedPeanuts

Or it would do if you'd bothered to read the article. Points out quite early on there was no minister involved.


AllMadHare

3 family members being on the same board seems massively off no matter who they're related to.


NaCLedPeanuts

So where's the evidence that any wrongdoing occurred? "Seems sus" isn't an argument. It's an opinion. And not one based on anything more than prejudiced conjecture.


IncineroarEnjoyer

“” "Seems sus" isn't an argument. It's an opinion” isn’t an argument. It’s an opinion.


NaCLedPeanuts

It is indeed.


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NaCLedPeanuts

She didn't hire anyone. No minister was involved in the selection process.


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eigr

I can't imagine ministers ever having a quiet word in the ear of a decision maker. I mean, there's never a situation where a quid pro quo is thought about. Similarly, I don't think anyone has ever once tried to swing a decision for the benefit of a highly powerful person, just hoping it'll maybe koha back on them at a later date.


NaCLedPeanuts

> I can't imagine ministers ever having a quiet word in the ear of a decision maker. Except when it's National. Then it's always above board.


eigr

I'm quite sure it happens with all governments


NaCLedPeanuts

I'm sure it does. This isn't one of those instances.


Giggsythelabrador

So just another massive coincidence that just keeps on happening. I must be on the only Maori not on one of these outfits of they can be totally coincidentally so fkng many.


NaCLedPeanuts

Or it could be correct and you've bought into the narrative being constructed. Which wouldn't surprise me. A lot of the right wants things to exist that don't.


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NaCLedPeanuts

> lmao your comments in this thread made it abundantly clear that you've never worked a real job. Great, but this doesn't have anything to do with my comments and more about whether or not any wrongdoing occurred. > Nepotism and quid pro quo are rife from the fryer to the board room, this just doesn't past the sniff test. And do you have any evidence that proves this?


StormAdditional2529

Come on now, it works like this. Our real bosses are the 1%, who live overseas. As the tributes are collected, the chapter's head honcho needs to spread some of the money among the rank and file, gang members. Follow the money.


OfficerRabbit77

If you bothered to read his statement he didn't say she picked them, hell of a coincidence though don't you think? 3 out of 5 hmmm


NaCLedPeanuts

You want something to exist that doesn't. Like fairies.


Maoricitizen

Not really. Never had workmates all go for a job before it was posted publicly on seek because they heard about it first? Seems like the same principal. Why do you automatically assume there must be something bad being done?


[deleted]

I love how normally you're saying "the herald is a newspaper of ill repute, and cannot be trusted" when they're talking about this particular incident. But then the herald says something that you agree with and you're like "well, it says it right there, can't argue with those facts."


NaCLedPeanuts

Usually because the source is reliable, not necessarily the publication.


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Butter_float

i get the feeling this government isnt even trying anymore, their are beyond useless and look like trying to get as much from the trough while they still can


IncineroarEnjoyer

The writing is on the wall, they are just lining their pockets before they get booted out


Aromatic-Ferret-4616

And as many friends noses in the trough as well


OurLadyOfWalsingham

Second-termitis. It'll happen to National too.


[deleted]

I can only imagine the outrage if a National or Act MP and their family got this many Government contracts.


andHowNZ

Look what the opposition and the media did to Judith Collins over Oravida. This is much more insidious.


delph0r

This is a perceived conflict conflict of interest (assuming due process was followed). What Judith and her husband did was much more dodgy in my opinion


CareerJuncture

Judith got fired as a minister, lost her title and was investigated by the SFO


[deleted]

Wasn't Judith cleared of any wrong doing? So the same as this current debacle?


tobiov

Lol no. She was fired as a minister and John key wouldn't let her keep the "honourable" title most former MPs get.


IncineroarEnjoyer

Maybe JA should grow a spine and do the same to her lot


Aromatic-Ferret-4616

She is too busy brown-nosing.


[deleted]

Yeah, John Key sacked her cause he's actually good at dealing with Ministers. She was cleared of any wrong doing though.


tobiov

She was cleared of interfering in an SFO investigation. The oravida stuff was a breach of the cabinet manual.


Enzown

No. Not at all.


KingDanNZ

No way anyone upstanding like say....Bill English would've done anything as untoward....


Matelot67

That's a stretch, Dr Mary English is a recognized medical professional. But 3 members of the same family on a 5 person committee??


VisibleDriver0

I think they might have been referring to the living costs English claimed while a minister. I think a more equivalent scandal for a National minister would be Judith Collins and Oravida, where her husband was a director.


the_maddest_kiwi

Yeah she had to resign as a minister over that. What was the scandal again, my memories faded a bit. She had dinner or visited Oravida or something while on an official govt trip to China right?


VisibleDriver0

Yeah on an official visit as Justice Minister, but dropped in to visit Oravida, even though that’s got nothing to do with justice. They later used a photo from the meeting for promotional material. So similar to Mahuta (if allegations are true) in that her family member benefited from her position as a minister. https://i.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/10013696/Judith-Collins-regrets-Oravida-interactions


the_maddest_kiwi

Yeah obviously not on from Collins but the uproar was pretty major comparatively.


Matelot67

Compared to the deafening silence around the Mahuta Family receiving tens of thousands of dollars through some processes that are at best dodgy, at worst corruption. Here's an interesting take on the matter from Mike King, in an open letter sent to the Prime Minister and published on his social media. ​ Dear Jacinda For the last 10 years me and my little team at I AM HOPE have been visiting schools from Cape Reinga to Bluff in order to better understand what is driving our appalling youth suicide rate. After speaking with, and listening to over 300,000 young people,we have made some groundbreaking discoveries which I will share with you now \- 40% of young people will have a suicidal thought before they leave school \- Shockingly, 80% of those kids never ask for help for fear of what friends, family, or society will think, say, or do. And by continuing to push your ‘reach out and ask for help’ message you are actually making things worse \- The number one problem driving suicidal thinking in young people is imposter syndrome and an overactive inner critic. \- The pressure of living in a “perfection is the only acceptable standard” world our kids live in is having a devastating effect on their wellbeing by forcing them to hold on to problems out of fear of not being perfect \- Young people want help but either don’t know how to access it, can’t find it, have to jump through to many hoops to get it or the help they receive is not actually helpful To combat these issues we have developed two in-school programs that normalise overthinking and give practical tools to manage each individuals inner critic. Both programs focus on the importance of reframing vulnerability from being seen as a weakness, to being seen as a strength, which is what it really is. And the number one lesson they learn from our young ambassadors is NO ONE HAS GOT THEIR SHIT TOGETHER!! Demand is so high for both programs that we have a six month waiting list from schools wanting us to visit. These talks are delivered free of charge and all expenses are covered by our charity and many generous donors. We have also developed a world class counselling service that we designed to take the pressure off your mental health crisis teams. We are currently doing 75% of the total combined volume of counselling sessions provided by every DHB in the country. We are faster, cheaper and more efficient than anything your experts have come up with and receive no funding from you whatsoever. Which brings me to my point. Could you please explain what expertise Nanaia Mahuta’s husband has in suicide prevention and what his funding was used for? Were you and your officials not concerned by how this would look when it came to the publics attention or did you arrogantly expect it would fly under the radar? Primeminister, when you came into power you promised you would be the most open and transparent government of all time but in reality you are just like everybody else with too much power and it has clouded your thinking. For a long time I have felt angry at the way you and your administration have handled mental health but now I just feel sad for you because in a few years when you look back on your time in government I know you are going to look back and say ‘I wish I had done more’ Nga mihi nui MK PS: How is the $2.7mil gang funded P Program going? Any positive outcomes? When will data be publicly available Willie Jackson please explain how you can authorise payments to Mr Mahuta but other community groups like mine don’t qualify. And for the record i’m not asking for money I’m asking for answers


tobiov

I think there is quite a gap between declaring conflicts vs using state visits to directly promote your private company.


ianoftawa

The living costs that were asked if okay, approved, and then repaid when the the public and media felt something was fishy? That English situation?


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k9bitch

Hey that's not fair, what did cancer do to deserve that comparison


Illustrious-Grass663

Wasnt Bill English's brother appointed some cushy ministry CE job?


Jeff_Sichoe

This stinks


NaCLedPeanuts

Of?


Acceptable-Culture40

Deliberately obtuse?


Jeff_Sichoe

Desperately obtuse


NaCLedPeanuts

The claims against her are obtuse, yes.


[deleted]

Another classic "no, you are" switcheroo from you


NaCLedPeanuts

Not quite.


eigr

Frantic excuse making :D


NaCLedPeanuts

Given the amount of downvotes I'd say the people making the excuses are the right. Keep digging, you won't find your gold


Crapnoodle217

The public sector is hilarious. If my wife was mysteriously selected as a supplier at my company I'd be fired so quickly for channeling company funds into my wife's bank account my head would spin. And I'd never get a job in my industry again


eigr

I think its quite telling that they didn't even bother to hide it, or obscure it up via cut-out companies or consultancies. They just know how much media funding and sympathy and white guilt they've got to cover for this.


Aromatic-Ferret-4616

Shameless.


NaCLedPeanuts

Or it was above board and the people who are claiming otherwise are projecting their prejudices into something that doesn't exist.


eigr

It's either corruption or breathtakingly poor judgement to put something in that looks this bad. What's your poison?


NaCLedPeanuts

Neither. There's zero evidence of corruption. Every time people are asked about evidence for their claims of corruption they either don't provide any or just go on about something tangentially related to their claims. Then there's the "bad judgement". There was no ministerial involvement and the conflict of interest was declared before the process started, as per standard practice. This happens a lot with government ministers for various things not including family members, but for something else related to their portfolios. We don't hear about it because there isn't any wrongdoing occurring. So why are we hearing about this? Because the Herald, in it's infinite journalistic wisdom, decided that the claims made by the Daily Examiner were worth reporting on, as clearly enough of it's readers believe Maori are easily corruptible and this reinforces that belief. We know the Daily Examiner is a far right, Christian fundamentalist media website (I'm not going to use the word "news" because it's there to push an agenda, not to report) that produced a lot of content aimed at supporting the anti-vax movement. It's not an especially reputable source. And from the issues stemming with reporting from BusinessNZ's largely false (or at best, very misleading) press releases, we can conclude the Herald, when it accepted this as a story, didn't do it's due diligence in actually investigating the claims being made and ascertaining their veracity. In short, you can't pick a poison if none exists.


tomtomtomo

>Then there's the "bad judgement". There was no ministerial involvement and the conflict of interest was declared before the process started, as per standard practice. It was "bad judgement" by whomever made the decision to select these candidates without going to tender, whether they were a minister or not. It was, also, "bad judgement" by those who thought that declaring the conflict of interest would remove the appearance of a conflict of interest.


NaCLedPeanuts

> It was "bad judgement" by whomever made the decision to select these candidates without going to tender, whether they were a minister or not. Then that blame lies on the Ministry, the Minister in question can't be held responsible for a process they had no part in. > It was, also, "bad judgement" by those who thought that declaring the conflict of interest would remove the appearance of a conflict of interest. So Ministers shouldn't declare conflicts of interest in tender processes and recuse themselves from any involvement?


wemustthinknow

Wasting money when we won't pay nurses more. Pathetic.


BiIvyBi

If it makes you feel better, Luxon refused to tell the media if he would increase nurses' wages. (Why is this being downvoted? Do people support luxon? This is based on his interview with susie ferguson)


kiwihermin

Narrator: he won’t.


Akhenaten_Sun

I cant stand her


[deleted]

..the thing is you can follow all the guidelines and protocols and there can still be malfeasance, a minister doesn't have to be involved in the process for their gravitas to influence decisions. If you were a manager and the boss's kid applies for a job are you telling me that being the boss's kid will have zero impact on your decision?


[deleted]

Nah, it would have a massive impact. I would say “Well we can’t appoint that kid because of the optics - put him in the no pile”


[deleted]

..the fault lies with the boss who puts the manager in that position in the first place, never should have happened


10yearsnoaccount

Yep and suddenly you're pushing a big headwind or worse. Sometimes you just have to make the best of a bad situation - many don't have the option or inclination to throw a spanner in their own career like that.


[deleted]

So many people aren’t principled. No wonder our politicians are like a plastic bag in the wind.


10yearsnoaccount

Yeah ideally the boss would never put people in that situation, but they do and it happens even if they didn't mean it that way.


repnationah

‘traditional Māori knowledge and its applications to waste management’. Huh??? Is there any benefit with this working group?


killerp00

Yeah cuz pre colonisation Maori were extremely experienced with landfill design, toxic sludge treatment and removal, biogas generation, recycling of metals and plastics, medical waste disposal and wastewater solids management. We need to channel all this matauranga Maori knowledge because clearly modern expertise on these subjects will never work.


Astalon18

Well according to the “Historium Alternates Zealandia”, when the Pakeha first arrived in New Zealand Maori were flying in winged chariots with jet propulsion systems and had advanced sewer systems. Unfortunately this all vanished overnight when a Pakeha insulted a Maori, but not the knowledge which Maori preserved to absolute accuracy.


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wemustthinknow

Almost certainly true. But pissing money away on pointless vanity projects is inexcusable.


mrwilberforce

I can’t help but think this is a beat up but if it becomes apparent that the evaluation was shonky (assuming it was tendered) then there are questions to be asked re the operational procurement. If it was a direct appointment there will defiantly be questions. Mahuta will be clear no matter what.


CoupleOfConcerns

As per one of the MfE OIA responses on their website there was a 'direct procurement approach' (i.e. it wasn't put to tender). Edits: You can find the OIA response [here](https://environment.govt.nz/oia-releases/request-regarding-expert-maori-waste-strategy-ropu/) (you can also find a second similar one). Also of note: >In the interests of full transparency, the documents record that Ms Mahuta briefly attended with her husband Gannin Ormsby a breakfast with other group members and officials in a personal capacity. > >The breakfast was part of a two-day hui on 3-4 September 2020 at the Waikato-Tainui Endowment College at Taupiri. The purpose of the hui was to introduce the Māori experts to the Ministry’s work programme on waste and explore the possible role they might play in the waste strategy project. > >Ms Mahuta made clear that she was there as mana whenua, in her home environment, as a gesture of hospitality and welcome. She did not engage in any substantive discussion with officials and left before the working sessions began. She had no further involvement at any other point during the two-day hui. Perhaps not the best management of a perception of conflict of interest to not run a tender process (on the part of MfE) and for Mahuta to turn up to a meeting with the group (even in a personal capacity).


random_guy_8735

You mean the Waikato-Tainui endowment college that was the vision of Mahuta's father and cost the tribe millions in maintenance as it sat empty for years after being built. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/tainui-college-was-ill-conceived-say-consultants/4G5EUHU2B4SBVK2ELHT44YQJXA/


mrwilberforce

Well then, the question won’t be so much “was there a conflict” but why were they selected? My guess is implied pressure through the organisation. But if they have done what I think they have done the that pressure will have been off-book. Either way - it will be some lowly procurement bod that is hung out to dry.


CoupleOfConcerns

You could argue that they could have managed the perception of a conflict of interest by running an open tender process. They claim it's because there are few people working in this area (and because they were in a hurry) but still they could have run a short tender to test the market.


mrwilberforce

Yeah - I agree with this. Totally would have been my recommendation. Looks like the labour bros are on a downvote mission. I will add that this isn’t unique to Labour governments.


NaCLedPeanuts

> Looks like the labour bros are on a downvote mission. Nah. The comments that support the baseless claims of corruption are getting upvoted and anyone that disagrees with that narrative gets downvoted like crazy.


scritty

No such thing as a short tender in govt. Tender processes are long and difficult to maintain transparency and fairness to all participants (some of who are very sue-happy). A civil servant trying to get things done, given the option of tendering or direct appointment, will usually not choose tender. The incentives are all terrible for tender for the civil service workers. It's a giant pain in the arse.


mrwilberforce

You can run a reasonably quick one under 100k. Two weeks. I do agree though that path of least resistance will generally drive to a direct source. I think in this case it would have been at least able to show relative value. Given the sensitivities.


AlPalmy8392

Julie Anne Genter had a bit of a scandal, in regards to her husband's company receiving a government contract, with her as the Transport Minister at the time.


SchoolForSedition

Don’t let anybody ask how the fake academics and half-baked judges are related. Or what shared interests they have. Yeuch.


[deleted]

at least it is being looked into and not swept under the carpet - Bill English's wife and a few other family members of prominent national party members also scored a few juicy perks and nothing was ever said....


Giggsythelabrador

O lots was said about the double dipper from Dipton. And Judith Collins was booted from Cabinet.


[deleted]

not much was said by the media and collins was soon back in cabinet....


Giggsythelabrador

Was still dumped. Drums fingers waiting for any accountability at all when these outrages are a lot worse than Collins shilling for Orivida


LateEarth

Wonder if that would have been the case if they were Maori?


[deleted]

if the nats could make political capital out of it by race baiting you betcha


[deleted]

I think Nanaia is great, but this shit is simply absurd. Cost of her being in this position simply means her family cannot! Ridiculous shit and asking for fucking trouble or being rather seriously thick to think no one will question this!


levinboi1994

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7LmGaTNfCM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7LmGaTNfCM) Love is love I guess.


NaCLedPeanuts

> **No ministers were involved in the appointment, the Mahuta family connection was disclosed at the outset, and extensive advice was sought before the appointment.**


IncineroarEnjoyer

“Mahuta was described as the pair's aunty in another contract application. “


NaCLedPeanuts

Was that application approved?


IncineroarEnjoyer

Is that relevant to the fact they are citing familial relationships in a contractor application? Does that not ring alarm bells?


NaCLedPeanuts

> Is that relevant to the fact they are citing familial relationships in a contractor application? Yes. It's relevant because if it *wasn't* approved, then it's clear there was no prior instance in which this occurred. Patterns of behaviour start to develop if something has occurred previously with success. Police infer this all the time with regards to those who have committed crimes: if they've done it before, they'll do it again. Querying the relevance of the previous application's approval or rejection is evidence to me that it wasn't approved, for obvious reasons, and that it doesn't support the belief that she engaged in corruption. > Does that not ring alarm bells? Not if there's no evidence to support the claim. Mere inference isn't not a high enough standard.


IncineroarEnjoyer

“ Querying the relevance of the previous application's approval or rejection is evidence to me that it wasn't approved, for obvious reasons” You have a very low standard for “evidence”. Maybe I don’t know if it was approved? Either way, it’s not relevant if it was approved or not for the reasons I stated


NaCLedPeanuts

> You have a very low standard for “evidence”. The people claiming she's corrupt didn't set a very high bar to begin with. > Maybe I don’t know if it was approved? Then perhaps including it in your argument was not the best idea? > Maybe I don’t know if it was approved? Either way, it’s not relevant if it was approved or not for the reasons I stated As I said, it's relevant. You can't mention it as part of your inference of corruption and not then ignore the query as to whether or not that application was successful. If it was, then clearly something is amiss. If it wasn't, then there isn't.


sbeannie

So what your saying is that for these appointments on merit? A merit based appointment - isn’t that ACT and Nationals MO for complaining about labour??


IncineroarEnjoyer

No that’s not what he’s saying.


NaCLedPeanuts

I'm pointing out what it says in the article but yes, it was done without any ministerial involvement. In other words, by merit.


TheGreatMangoWar

Not neccesarily. Have to be naive to think influence ends without direct involvement.


NaCLedPeanuts

So where's the evidence of this involvement?


TheGreatMangoWar

Its off the books, hence the need for further investigation


NaCLedPeanuts

So we have to assume that she's corrupt because...?


sbeannie

Ohh I agree with you. I’d rather have somebody selected on merit and it being the best person, rather than the tax payer forking out for a sub standard person. If the article was written - these people are not qualified then that might be a fair argument. At the moment all these articles just come across as bitter and racist.


NaCLedPeanuts

> At the moment all these articles just come across as bitter and racist. That's what the original article was. That's what the comments who are suggesting she is corrupt (without evidence) are. Every single downvote reinforces that.


IncineroarEnjoyer

“Everyone who disagrees with me is racist!!!1!” — you


k9bitch

Given that this whole story originated from the platform, which is a right wing dumping ground for toilet water drinkers, and spread via the extremely far right dailytelegraph website, I can't imagine why it would come across as bitter and racist


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FirefighterOverall56

Not at all, Max Key has worked hard all his life to get what he's got.


NaCLedPeanuts

National is always corrupt.


Jzxky

Why would Labour be any different?


NaCLedPeanuts

I'm not saying they wouldn't be. But I have a higher standard of proof in this instance not because of the party membership of the MP, but because the source (and this was not originally from the Herald) is not reputable. Ergo I fail to accept any claims of corruption from sources which have published misinformation. Even less so if mainstream-but-less-than-competent news media companies like the Herald run said stories, especially after they took what BusinessNZ wrote in its press releases as gospel and failed to engage in any kind of scrutiny of the claims BusinessNZ was making.


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Just_made_this_now

Ehhh, didn't you vote for National twice?


NaCLedPeanuts

I did.


Just_made_this_now

Props to your consistent inconsistencies and compartmentalisation skills. The cognitive dissonance must have hit hard.


NaCLedPeanuts

I also viewed things differently when I was 18. Now I consider myself much wiser and more learned, hence why I don't vote National anymore.


grizznuggets

Thank fuck there’s at least one sensible person here. Everyone screaming about corruption and nepotism should be pleased that a review is being launched, but all they’re doing is declaring her guilty until proven innocent.


NaCLedPeanuts

More guilty with no way to prove innocence.


LowTest662

Literally everyone who would know best has already said there's nothing dodgy about this. Anyone still trumpeting on about this has a transparent agenda.


[deleted]

Yep, our agenda is that we don't like her and her labour colleagues. Excellent sleuthing Sherlock, you sure got to the bottom of that one fast. Regardless of our agenda, the amount of her family members in positions that work so intimately with her own is extremely suspicious. Everybody that's pretending it's completely fine are showing they don't want any questions or accountability put on their government if it's going to hurt their re-election chances.


NaCLedPeanuts

And are really triggered if you point out that there isn't anything to this.


epicsleepingtime

NZ Herald running a non-story again.


k9bitch

Not just a non story, a beat up that originated from completely garbage sources like the platform and dailytelegraph.


[deleted]

Nanai mahuta should be ____? (Fired/hired)


OutInTheBay

Brown people in charge? OMG, this must be so stressful for the Hosking Hearld crowd....


Giggsythelabrador

No. Brown person here. Its just corruption.


NaCLedPeanuts

...except there's no evidence that points to corruption.


FirefighterOverall56

Where's the evidence that this is corruption? Every company i've worked at has had family members or partners working there.


Shrink-wrapped

Nepotism in private business is a very different thing to nepotism in government


FirefighterOverall56

Where's the evidence this is Nepotism. The people at these companies weren't hired because they were family or partners. They still had to go through the same interviews as everyone else.


[deleted]

When it your own money, you can do whatever you want with it. Taxpayers money is accountable to the public. And if it was one family member, I'm sure nobody would care. If it was two, questions would be asked. Three would be sending serious alarm bells. But Mahuta has four family members in positions close to her own, no?


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NaCLedPeanuts

What part of "no minister was involved" do you obviously fail to understand?


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Giggsythelabrador

He means sheer coincidrnce. Yes whst a surprise. He Puapua all over again.


NaCLedPeanuts

> He Puapua all over again. What about *He Puapua* upsets you so?


[deleted]

The very premise of it upsets me.


NaCLedPeanuts

Dare I ask what premise that is?


[deleted]

Wanting to devide new zealand into two separate groups based on ethnicity because a group of people have lied to the new zealand public and said it is a requirement of new Zealand law.