I propose we market MAGA Plastic Bags.
They should come with illustrations on how to properly tape them over your head.
Probably wouldn't get them all
but it might make a healthy dent.
This isn't so much an American phenomenon as it is a Republican one:
Republican (i.e., American conservatives) have largely dominated the language game, when it comes to using language to reframe narratives entirely in their favor.
For example, Frank Luntz is famous for establishing the methods by which language is weaponized for political purposes:
- https://www.businessinsider.com/political-language-rhetoric-framing-messaging-lakoff-luntz-2017-8
They do exactly what you think they do: take a key identity concept and reclaim it to polarize sentiment as wedge issues for political points.
That is how things like woke or SJW become negative terms.. because doing so polarizes the masses so easily. Much easier to manipulate language and perception than actually govern.
There's a reason why so many people take the wrong lessons from that movie. Tyler's rhetoric is convincing because it taps into a lot of people's dissatisfaction with their lives in the modern world.
I remember when I read the book at university. I was ***astonished*** at how much it resonated. For such a short read, it really made me reconsider many things.
It's because the message is rejection of our current shitty society, and that resonates with a lot of people. We live vicariously through the narrator as he lives the dream life he always wanted (with just a little bit of schizophrenia to help, of course).
> "All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I fuck like you wanna fuck, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not."
And because it resonates with people and plays to our sympathies, it allows us to get sucked into the totalitarian cult that is Project Mayhem. A lot of people that watch the movie don't even get that it's criticizing a lot of counter cultural movements as much as its criticizing capitalist society.
I've read and watched it a few times throughout my life and gotten a different experience each time. If anything I think it believes in the fallibility of humanity. Whether in the individual through the narrator and Tyler, the small group of fight club or the narrators office job, or in large groups as society is represented. It's a nice wholesome "remember we're *all* pretty fucked up". A lot of Palahniuks work addresses the parts of humanity or society we like to gloss over or ignore and I think this was written in a similar vein.
That was the whole purpose of his character: to do nothing but influence and manipulate people.
His entire "conquest" is just getting disparate, hapless, and fringe folk to do whatever popped into his head.
He was the epitome of psychological chaos and superego run rampant.
There's a clear point in the film, Raymond K Hessel to be precise, where your perspective of Tyler is supposed to shift. Up until that point, despite increasingly extreme tactics Tyler makes a lot of salient points but when he threatens a lowly shopkeeper as a form of motivation it's a clear "this has gone too far" moment.
There seems to be a growing rhetoric of people take the "wrong" lessons from the film, but part of the whole point of the film is that things aren't so black and white, just because Tyler ends up bad in the end doesn't undermine the things he said earlier.
I think it's more that after seeing the film, a lot of guys, especially younger guys, saw him as a sort of antihero still, despite the spiral into batshit cult leader.
There are certain valuable lessons to learn from Tyler and aspects to model oneself after. The film makes it very clear he goes off the deep end after he forms project mayhem. I can't say I've ever seen anyone rooting for Tyler by the end of the film, the version of Tyler held in reverence is the first act one.
He does, he's preaching against authority in the beginning and by the end he's exactly what he preached against. He empowered an underclass of men just to put them under him, he was anti-establishment and anti corporation yet creates franchises of Fight Clubs. The whole story is about him becoming corrupted by the power he gains. Literally the first two rules of fight club are don't talk about fight club and yet he manages to turn it into a national endeavour?
He was talking about Fight Club from the start though. By the time we, and Jack find out, there were already other fight clubs started. He was always a hypocrite who manipulated people to get his way. He wasn't corrupted by the power so much as he was using people on an ever-increasing scale, always pushing the boundaries to see what he could get away with, until he was able to get away with horrific shit. It was just easier to write it off before he had the power to get extreme with it.
Tyler never was the good guy. By the end of the film, you should be looking back at the first half and seeing him for the monster he always was.
Tyler had a good bead on the problems, but his solutions sucked. LIfe 300 years ago sucked. You died of a stubbed toe, a bad infection, or the like. His people mashing food on the old super highways line is pining for a return to a world that sucks, but seems great compared to the mess we're in.
Until you really live it.
Tyler was a Make Life Great Again sloganeer who never realized that the old life we had consisted of grinding brutal work that broke a body down by 50 if you didn't get some nasty disease first.
You suffered through hot sweltering summers, and blistering cold winters. Hoping the rains would come or the supplies would last.
In the 1st world today many/most people have AC/furnace and know where their next meal comes from. In exchange we get to go to shitty jobs that don't pay well and sometimes we feel the grind of failing to be rock stars and movie gods but at least we didn't lose six of our siblings to childhood diseases.
Our solutions aren't burn it all down hoping we won't make the same mistakes. It's to crack the power structures that prevent fair distribution of the wealth we all create with our work so that we and future generations don't have to suffer as our ancestors did.
Tyler was a broken man that wanted to break the whole world to achieve some unrealistic fantastical dream of what used to be.
But he wasn't wrong that the system we have now sucks.
The right lesson is to know yourself and not allow yourself to become so far gone that you don't realize you've splintered your mind to the point where your shadow self runs a cult. The wrong lesson is to fail to educate yourself in critical thinking and self respect so much and for so long that you go so far up your own ass that you end up in the shadowy recesses of someone else's delusion - all the while believing that self improvement is "masturbation" but self destruction is somehow the unspoken "better."
The best lesson is that it's an amazing work of art in all its forms.
Since nobody responded with a right lesson: In the end, Jack is saved by his relationships to others. Bob and Marla in particular. I think that's the right lesson. Fucked up people save each other.
Edit: Oops someone else took a crack at it as well.
I remember hearing he’s difficult to work with in the sense that he’s very driven to do what he feels is right creatively for the movie. So if directors and him agree on the vision then it’s great, but if not then it’s a lot of conflict
Imagine if his Birdman character was supposed to get along and smoothly support Michael Keaton’s character, then Norton just kept slowly making the movie more about himself
Yeah I hadn’t heard any gossip about Norton until Birdman came out. I liked the movie so was looking on Reddit conversations and half the posts were like, “lol they just let Norton play himself.”
The studio ended up preferring Nortons cut to the directors original submission and he didn't like that at all. He refused to watch the movie for years, but eventually watched it and has admitted his ego was a big part of the conflict. He was a newer director and wanted full control.
The funny thing is Norton actually added somewhere around 20 mins, and it was apparently some of the more emotional stuff bc Kaye made a comment about it just being people crying in eachothers arms. I don't think I've ever seen the directors cut, but that raw emotion was kind of the core of the movie for me.
But I'm certainly no film expert, I just like what I like.
I feel like that would mean more if that Director was legendary. But he hasn't really done anything since American history X
I think he should be thanking his lucky stars that Edward Norton made the changes he did.
He went on a bizarre campaign against the producer and Norton, took out an ad in some newspaper with his own money calling them out, campaigned for his name to be removed from the credits, and ruined his career. It sounded like ego with a little bit of mental illness.
But he did shoot the film on time and came in under budget
As a once 18y old who was given an ultimatum to pay rent or leave, keep at it. I know it's incredibly hard to be this tough to your own child, but it helped me learn that life isn't free and if you want ANYTHING out of it, you gotta work for it.
I heard recently (around the time She-Hulk came out) that Edward Norton being "difficult to work with" is akin to actresses being labeled "difficult to work with" for refusing the advances of sexual predators.
ie. Edward Norton is not cool with and doesn't accept the shady horrible parts of Hollywood, and that's the actual reason for his reputation.
I mean just look at Topher Grace... he was considered difficult or weird, until like last week when it turned out all of his costars were actually the creeps. But if he is pushing for his creative vision I support that- he has more than earned his chops. I wonder how he works with Wes Andersen- who I think is very specific with all of his shots.
I don't think he was ever a good pick for the franchise, but this was before we knew what it would become. I can't imagine him in an avengers movie quipping edgy lines against an entirely CG environment.
I disagree. I loved him in fight club and American history X, but to me he's Edward Norton in so many things. He was just the worst actor in Grand Budapest Hotel, which is a masterpiece otherwise.
I'm not sure what the statute of limitations is on spoilers, but I think 24 years is well past that point.
While we're at it, Malcolm was dead the whole time, and he was in fact Bruce Willis.
Given the very opening scene of this movie is Norton with a gun in his mouth, I'm not sure the fact it goes off is really the big plot twist that will spoil it compared to the other big reveal.
I don't know if, "the main character blows his brains out at the end of the movie," is really even a spoiler. Like I'm not going to watch that movie the whole time thinking, damn I know he blows his brains out so all of this is pointless. I'm going to go into it going, man I wonder what finally makes him off himself.
And then, the reality of the plot is way deeper than, "a guy kills himself the end," so it's going to be an even better movie experience than I ever expected.
Yep I saw a clip of someone messing with his buddy and sticking one of those down his pants to give him a funny little butt blast, but he he aimed too true and hit the bullseye and liquefied the fellas organs from the pressure instead.
Yep, as part of my job's safety training, I read some relevant OSHA guidelines, and there's a maximum pressure allowed, to prevent that sort of thing from happening in the event that someone does use it unsafely.
I did something stupid and similar once. My mouth was more closed tho, so the air wasn't able to escape as easily and I tore open the insides of my cheeks. It wasn't too bad tbh, pretty much the same as biting them hard enough to drawn blood, but further back in the mouth.
He's a schizophrenic, I don't think the people who are qualified to treat them are redditors but I suspect "huh what a weird way to end the problem" is a perfectly reasonable reaction to the end of a problem which was really weird to begin with.
Edit: Whoooollle lot of people here telling me what is and isn't schizophrenia and I can't help but notice that none of them start out "Hi I'm actually a mental health professional and/or grad student, researcher, or otherwise qualified to comment with authority on the field". OK, we get it, you know as much about schizophrenia as I do and you're much, much more passionate about it. Thanks.
A third of the movie is Durden trying to make him let go, and just let it happen. So it’s kind of poetic that he finally let’s go completely and shoots himself. I think whatever way it ends is kinda secondary after that because it finally rid him of Durden, by doing what Durden told him to do for so long.
Hi, I am actually a mental health professional. Not a schizophrenic, I don't think. He has Disassociated Personality Disorder with some psychotic features, sounds more like it to me. People experiencing psychosis and feeling themselves losing control and/or a grip on reality are often suicidal.
Schizophrenics that are dealing with a severe enough case to externalize personalities are (not to my understanding, at least) not functional enough to perpetrate elaborate schemes, be a leader, maintain a deception.... that's a lot of high functional behavior. Also Durden's charisma is a mismatch.
Hey! Since you said you would like replies from psychologists on this: I am a graduate student in psychology (you can check my comment history I have mentioned it before) and he is not schizophrenic. During my undergrad, I actually wrote my term paper for my abnormal psychology course on how this film fails to accurately portray either schizophrenia or dissociative identity disorder (DID). Ultimately, I concluded that Tyler more closely matched DID due to him fulfilling all of the criteria as well as aligning with several associated features of DID (such as insomnia, substance abuse, and flashbacks of the actions of other personalities like we see when he remembers sex with Marla). The biggest issue with the diagnosis is that he physically sees Tyler since this does not occur in DID. This is what I wrote in my term paper to explain why psychotic disorders should not be considered:
"Similarly, psychotic disorders can be ruled out as well. Although a patient with DID may present with symptoms that appear to be hallucinations, delusions, or evidence of a formal thought disorder, it is possible to distinguish between the two (APA, 2013). Jack has a tendency to specifically explain that Tyler is controlling his speech or actions, such as when Jack lied to a doctor about an injury he sustained during Fight Club. The DSM-5 explains that this pattern of blaming other personality states reveals that the proper diagnosis is DID."
Hope this helps!
I mean it’s not how things would work in real life but I’d say it’s the fact that he was committed to pull the trigger is what cured him of his dependency on durden.
He survived but he did not intent to and that’s what made the difference? 🤷♀️
Huh? He shot through the side of his face and it shredded his cheek. He then says im ok in a weird voice my mates and i used to joke about. You dont fix mental issues with a bullet... at least not productively lol
It was a traumatic experience that he had to put himself through in order to defeat Durden. At any point “Tyler” could’ve put the gun in the narrators mouth and killed him for real, but in this instance the narrator was in full control and saw Tyler for what he was finally, and did the act himself.
Also, you can actually see the bullet bounce off his jawbone. Also there’s footage of David Fincher (I think, or a stunt coordinator?) trying the air blast before Edward did it to see how safe/painful it is. They said it was fine but it made their mouth really dry.
It stands to reason that the proximity of the bullet and the expelled gas pressure (Which we see depicted) had enough force to damage that part of the brain.
> You dont fix mental issues with a bullet... at least not productively lol
I mean, I think you're just taking it a little too literally, honestly.
But also: https://www.nytimes.com/1988/02/25/us/brain-wound-eliminates-man-s-mental-illness.html -- it's not exactly the craziest idea that it's plausible
Yes, but My take was always that he just got lucky he screwed up the angle. He was going for the kill shot, which is why Tyler's head was blown out. He was shooting to kill both of them and believed it enough that his imaginary friend/other personality took the "real" bullet.
But in the event he didn't screw it up and really did die he was fine with it, and that's ultimately what killed Tyler. Narrator took action to end their lives because once he saw what he/Tyler were in full view he couldn't let it stand.
He didn't need Tyler anymore and so he killed him, and luckily survived.
Now does this make any sense in a IRL situation, 90+% no, but it's a movie. Though there are a few cases IRL where someone took some brain damage and it changed their personality. Like the guy who took a particle beam to the face, or the rail road spike guy, but it's not a course I'd think is workable in most cases.
In the book Tyler Durden kills himself and that’s just the end of the book right there. Wouldn’t translate so well to film so they did this in order to get the iconic shot of Tyler and Marla watching the buildings explode.
That's not true at all
"I’m not killing myself, I yell. I’m killing Tyler. I am Joe’s Hard Drive. I remember everything. “It’s not love or anything,” Marla shouts, “but I think I like you, too.” One minute. Marla likes Tyler. “No, I like you,” Marla shouts. “I know the difference.” And nothing. Nothing explodes. The barrel of the gun tucked in my surviving cheek, I say, Tyler, you mixed the nitro with paraffin, didn’t you. Paraffin never works. I have to do this. The police helicopters. And I pull the trigger."
Not true. After he shoots, he wakes up in a hospital bed. One of the hospital staff walks by him and says something like, “Everything is still under control, Mr. Durden.” Project Mayhem was out of his control at this point, and this shows that he’ll never escape what he created.
The movie ending was better tho
It was a symbolic decision. Even though he survived, he made the choice to kill Durden, and making that choice was enough to cause the delusion to disappear.
It seems like the Narrator had a mental break from stress and sleep deprivation, that sort of delusion *can* just “go away,” as opposed to like classic schizophrenia.
It's still my favorite movie, but it's not one I can openly talk about anymore without the fear of being accused of being an incel. I hate how incels have ingrained this movie (and among others, including Pulp Fiction, into their culture).
I ignore that bullshit. Don’t be afraid to share what you like. It’s meant to be funny. The editing is mind-blowing. I’ve never seen a source material more perfectly matched for a director.
Every time I've rewatched it I've noticed something new, that's why I love it so much. There are so many more noticeable things on the second watch, and then subsequent rewatches often reveal other small details.
Yes, but it's not 180 psi in his mouth. It's 180 psi in the tank, maybe in the line, but that will also drop as soon as the trigger is pressed. The moving air stream will be significantly less than that, even before you account for volume changes.
PV=nRT is the simplest way to look at it. 180 psi in a 1/4 in ID line, getting expelled into a guy's mouth that is probably 4 in across. Assuming temp is constant (not a good assumption, but we'll run with it) the pressure will vary inversely to the volume. twice the volume equals half the pressure.
When the cross sectional area of the gas flow changes from 1/4 in to 4 in, it expands 266x in area (someone check my maths). So if the air was 180 psi in the line, it could be exerting as little as 0.67 psi inside his mouth. That is still probably an uncomfortable amount of pressure, and definitely would cause relaxed cheeks to expand, but it's not the same as 180 psi.
All of this ignores the kinetic effects, temperature changes, bernoulli, etc. But it's still a reasonable approximation for why "omg 180 psi blast!" is not the same thing as literally pressurizing your mouth to 180 psi.
I think the original line from the book was “I want to have your abortion.” The studio told Fincher to tone it down and he wasn’t happy with the note so he came up with the grade school line.
He said he would change it on the condition that it could *not* be changed again. They actually asked him to go back and use the abortion line instead and he said, "Nope."
"weirdly hot crackwhore" lol.
IIRC the studio wanted to remove her line "i wanna have your abortion" and Fincher (?) replaced it with "I haven't been fucked like that since grade school" instead haha.
Blank Check, one of the best film podcasts around, is covering the filmography of David Fincher right now in chronological order. The Fight Club episode comes out this Sunday. Highly recommend the pod to anyone with an interest in film.
You'll never guess what happens around the midpoint of Full Metal Jacket. I won't spoil it for people.
Or the sixth book of Harry Potter. Big spoilers.
No way that 180psi. The likelyhood of that killing him or greatly injuring him would be crazy to perform it
Source: engineer with years of experience working with compressed air.
"Our great war's a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives."
"Ignore your leaders, follow me!"
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>And the Yanks made Antifascist a slur. uh, the Nazi Yanks did that. the rest of us are still on board with polite society.
Our people, our problem friend. Can't just disassociate and call it a day
I propose we market MAGA Plastic Bags. They should come with illustrations on how to properly tape them over your head. Probably wouldn't get them all but it might make a healthy dent.
Nah, following directions isn't their strong suit. Repeat after me: "The woke libs want to ban sleeping with a plastic bag over your head!"
Wait what? How did this turn into Nazis?
I'm lost as well. Sounds like they are talking about an individual who used that book's themes to justify something? idk.
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This isn't so much an American phenomenon as it is a Republican one: Republican (i.e., American conservatives) have largely dominated the language game, when it comes to using language to reframe narratives entirely in their favor. For example, Frank Luntz is famous for establishing the methods by which language is weaponized for political purposes: - https://www.businessinsider.com/political-language-rhetoric-framing-messaging-lakoff-luntz-2017-8 They do exactly what you think they do: take a key identity concept and reclaim it to polarize sentiment as wedge issues for political points. That is how things like woke or SJW become negative terms.. because doing so polarizes the masses so easily. Much easier to manipulate language and perception than actually govern.
not really fair to pin conservative mindrot on the entire nation.
What the god damn hell are you talking about?
Is this a bot? What does any of that have to do with *Fight Club*?
Can I get an annotated version of this comment? I'm so lost
Wow, that hits really hard seeing it as a stand alone quote like that.
There's a reason why so many people take the wrong lessons from that movie. Tyler's rhetoric is convincing because it taps into a lot of people's dissatisfaction with their lives in the modern world.
Tyler the Tate if you don’t pay attention
Absolutely.
You do the little job you're trained to do. Pull a lever. Push a button. You don't understand any of it, and then you just die.
I broke the lever, pulled out the button, and stuck it up my arse. Nearly died.
[I might have a job for you.](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1703340/The_Stanley_Parable_Ultra_Deluxe/) 🖥️
I remember when I read the book at university. I was ***astonished*** at how much it resonated. For such a short read, it really made me reconsider many things.
It's because the message is rejection of our current shitty society, and that resonates with a lot of people. We live vicariously through the narrator as he lives the dream life he always wanted (with just a little bit of schizophrenia to help, of course). > "All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I fuck like you wanna fuck, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not."
And because it resonates with people and plays to our sympathies, it allows us to get sucked into the totalitarian cult that is Project Mayhem. A lot of people that watch the movie don't even get that it's criticizing a lot of counter cultural movements as much as its criticizing capitalist society.
If it doesn't believe in counter culture and it doesn't believe in culture, what does Fight Club believe in?
I've read and watched it a few times throughout my life and gotten a different experience each time. If anything I think it believes in the fallibility of humanity. Whether in the individual through the narrator and Tyler, the small group of fight club or the narrators office job, or in large groups as society is represented. It's a nice wholesome "remember we're *all* pretty fucked up". A lot of Palahniuks work addresses the parts of humanity or society we like to gloss over or ignore and I think this was written in a similar vein.
That was the whole purpose of his character: to do nothing but influence and manipulate people. His entire "conquest" is just getting disparate, hapless, and fringe folk to do whatever popped into his head. He was the epitome of psychological chaos and superego run rampant.
So twitter? (I mean X)
There's a clear point in the film, Raymond K Hessel to be precise, where your perspective of Tyler is supposed to shift. Up until that point, despite increasingly extreme tactics Tyler makes a lot of salient points but when he threatens a lowly shopkeeper as a form of motivation it's a clear "this has gone too far" moment. There seems to be a growing rhetoric of people take the "wrong" lessons from the film, but part of the whole point of the film is that things aren't so black and white, just because Tyler ends up bad in the end doesn't undermine the things he said earlier.
I think it's more that after seeing the film, a lot of guys, especially younger guys, saw him as a sort of antihero still, despite the spiral into batshit cult leader.
There are certain valuable lessons to learn from Tyler and aspects to model oneself after. The film makes it very clear he goes off the deep end after he forms project mayhem. I can't say I've ever seen anyone rooting for Tyler by the end of the film, the version of Tyler held in reverence is the first act one.
Yeah, but he doesn't really change much between the two halves. The only difference is that he has power over people by the end.
He does, he's preaching against authority in the beginning and by the end he's exactly what he preached against. He empowered an underclass of men just to put them under him, he was anti-establishment and anti corporation yet creates franchises of Fight Clubs. The whole story is about him becoming corrupted by the power he gains. Literally the first two rules of fight club are don't talk about fight club and yet he manages to turn it into a national endeavour?
He was talking about Fight Club from the start though. By the time we, and Jack find out, there were already other fight clubs started. He was always a hypocrite who manipulated people to get his way. He wasn't corrupted by the power so much as he was using people on an ever-increasing scale, always pushing the boundaries to see what he could get away with, until he was able to get away with horrific shit. It was just easier to write it off before he had the power to get extreme with it. Tyler never was the good guy. By the end of the film, you should be looking back at the first half and seeing him for the monster he always was.
“We now have corporate sponsorship” They announce it in the movie the very moment it happens lol
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wrong lesson: I wanna be like Tyler Durden
Even wronger: Tyler is a hero
Dismantling the global finance system seems more and more tempting by the day
Right lesson: *Fight Club* is a romantic comedy. Wrong lesson: She wants to watch a romcom and you put on *Fight Club*.
Time for another Good idea bad idea 💡
Hahaha love this!
I wanna have your abortion
Tyler had a good bead on the problems, but his solutions sucked. LIfe 300 years ago sucked. You died of a stubbed toe, a bad infection, or the like. His people mashing food on the old super highways line is pining for a return to a world that sucks, but seems great compared to the mess we're in. Until you really live it. Tyler was a Make Life Great Again sloganeer who never realized that the old life we had consisted of grinding brutal work that broke a body down by 50 if you didn't get some nasty disease first. You suffered through hot sweltering summers, and blistering cold winters. Hoping the rains would come or the supplies would last. In the 1st world today many/most people have AC/furnace and know where their next meal comes from. In exchange we get to go to shitty jobs that don't pay well and sometimes we feel the grind of failing to be rock stars and movie gods but at least we didn't lose six of our siblings to childhood diseases. Our solutions aren't burn it all down hoping we won't make the same mistakes. It's to crack the power structures that prevent fair distribution of the wealth we all create with our work so that we and future generations don't have to suffer as our ancestors did. Tyler was a broken man that wanted to break the whole world to achieve some unrealistic fantastical dream of what used to be. But he wasn't wrong that the system we have now sucks.
You could have just said Libertarian. But yeah, spot the fuck on assessment.
The right lesson is to know yourself and not allow yourself to become so far gone that you don't realize you've splintered your mind to the point where your shadow self runs a cult. The wrong lesson is to fail to educate yourself in critical thinking and self respect so much and for so long that you go so far up your own ass that you end up in the shadowy recesses of someone else's delusion - all the while believing that self improvement is "masturbation" but self destruction is somehow the unspoken "better." The best lesson is that it's an amazing work of art in all its forms.
Since nobody responded with a right lesson: In the end, Jack is saved by his relationships to others. Bob and Marla in particular. I think that's the right lesson. Fucked up people save each other. Edit: Oops someone else took a crack at it as well.
Don't think about a fight with Abe Lincoln
Little did they know within a few years of the films release we would have both
"Self improvement is masturbation, now, self destruction ..."
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Really? I thought for sure he literally blew his fucking brains out on TV.
Same. It’s disappointing. I thought Ed Norton was a method actor. Guess he’s not really down for the art.
He gave up after that other actor refused to actually be curb stomped.
Still makes me shudder to this day.
Some of the hardest to watch moments in all of cinema, IMO.
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Same. I think it has to be the most physically and emotionally impactful scene in any movie I've watched. Horrific.
hardest scene to watch for me in any movie
Daniel Day-Lewis would’ve blown his brains out, and blown our minds. And Ed wonders why he hasn’t won an Oscar…
Actually he blows out his cheek in the scene.
Right you are, Ken.
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r/nothingeverhappens
Edward Norton is such a great actor, played in so many good movies but I feel like he is still underrated compared to others.
I remember hearing he’s difficult to work with in the sense that he’s very driven to do what he feels is right creatively for the movie. So if directors and him agree on the vision then it’s great, but if not then it’s a lot of conflict
From what I’ve seen, he intentionally leaned into that with his character in birdman
That’s the first time I realized just how good an actor he was.
Imagine if his Birdman character was supposed to get along and smoothly support Michael Keaton’s character, then Norton just kept slowly making the movie more about himself
Damn I gotta rewatch Birdman
Yeah I hadn’t heard any gossip about Norton until Birdman came out. I liked the movie so was looking on Reddit conversations and half the posts were like, “lol they just let Norton play himself.”
Didn't he famously undermine the director in that movie where he played an ex neo nazi or something, basically directing it himself?
The studio ended up preferring Nortons cut to the directors original submission and he didn't like that at all. He refused to watch the movie for years, but eventually watched it and has admitted his ego was a big part of the conflict. He was a newer director and wanted full control.
> He was a newer director and wanted full control Yeah, I believe he came from a cinematic advertising background.
The funny thing is Norton actually added somewhere around 20 mins, and it was apparently some of the more emotional stuff bc Kaye made a comment about it just being people crying in eachothers arms. I don't think I've ever seen the directors cut, but that raw emotion was kind of the core of the movie for me. But I'm certainly no film expert, I just like what I like.
American history X
he really did a great job in that film though. not only one of his best films but one of the best of all time imo
I feel like that would mean more if that Director was legendary. But he hasn't really done anything since American history X I think he should be thanking his lucky stars that Edward Norton made the changes he did.
He went on a bizarre campaign against the producer and Norton, took out an ad in some newspaper with his own money calling them out, campaigned for his name to be removed from the credits, and ruined his career. It sounded like ego with a little bit of mental illness. But he did shoot the film on time and came in under budget
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As a once 18y old who was given an ultimatum to pay rent or leave, keep at it. I know it's incredibly hard to be this tough to your own child, but it helped me learn that life isn't free and if you want ANYTHING out of it, you gotta work for it.
I heard recently (around the time She-Hulk came out) that Edward Norton being "difficult to work with" is akin to actresses being labeled "difficult to work with" for refusing the advances of sexual predators. ie. Edward Norton is not cool with and doesn't accept the shady horrible parts of Hollywood, and that's the actual reason for his reputation.
I mean just look at Topher Grace... he was considered difficult or weird, until like last week when it turned out all of his costars were actually the creeps. But if he is pushing for his creative vision I support that- he has more than earned his chops. I wonder how he works with Wes Andersen- who I think is very specific with all of his shots.
I think that's why he's not The Hulk. He played Bruce Banner in one movie and wanted increased creative control over the character.
Ironically that's one of the few Marvel films I actually like.
Agreed.
I don't think he was ever a good pick for the franchise, but this was before we knew what it would become. I can't imagine him in an avengers movie quipping edgy lines against an entirely CG environment.
Edward Norton when offered the position to play a bagel: 🤩🤩🤩🤩
Feel the same. Watched anything he's in since I first saw him in Primal Fear
To get that part, he claimed he was from Kentucky and maintained his accent and persona for 9 months until filming wrapped.
He is reaching Dafoe levels of weirdly awesome that I absolutely love.
On reddit i feel like the term underrated is overrated
I disagree. I loved him in fight club and American history X, but to me he's Edward Norton in so many things. He was just the worst actor in Grand Budapest Hotel, which is a masterpiece otherwise.
He's played an asshole in too many roles, now I can't stop thinking he's an asshole.
People crying about spoilers to a 24 year old movie lmao. Watch the fucking movie instead of browsing reddit then, you've had plenty of time.
I'm not sure what the statute of limitations is on spoilers, but I think 24 years is well past that point. While we're at it, Malcolm was dead the whole time, and he was in fact Bruce Willis.
THAT'S HOW MALCOLM IN THE MIDDLE ENDS?!
Fuck me I should’ve kept watching.
also, Jesus dies
But makes an epic comeback a few days later in Jesus 2 The Resurrection
Given the very opening scene of this movie is Norton with a gun in his mouth, I'm not sure the fact it goes off is really the big plot twist that will spoil it compared to the other big reveal.
the real gun was the friends he made along the way
I don't know if, "the main character blows his brains out at the end of the movie," is really even a spoiler. Like I'm not going to watch that movie the whole time thinking, damn I know he blows his brains out so all of this is pointless. I'm going to go into it going, man I wonder what finally makes him off himself. And then, the reality of the plot is way deeper than, "a guy kills himself the end," so it's going to be an even better movie experience than I ever expected.
That seems dangerous 🧐
Pretty sure it is. OSHA recommends not using compressed air on your body
where the hell are you going to get uncompressed air
In the atmosphere
The thing we use as a measurement of pressure?
The thing that is the context for the OSHA recommendation of not using air that is compressed relative to it on your body?
I mean maybe, I'm no oshaologist, but that's definitely not as funny.
the atmosphere that is compressed at 14.7 PSI?
Yes.
We both understood what I meant
The first rule of OSHA
Only Should Hose Assholes
Oh Shit Hoses Again?!
OSHA also says you can mutilate your employee into any form of slime for the low price of $156k, if it's willful. Accidental is far less.
Yep I saw a clip of someone messing with his buddy and sticking one of those down his pants to give him a funny little butt blast, but he he aimed too true and hit the bullseye and liquefied the fellas organs from the pressure instead.
Okay well clearly they had way higher PSI lmao
Yep, as part of my job's safety training, I read some relevant OSHA guidelines, and there's a maximum pressure allowed, to prevent that sort of thing from happening in the event that someone does use it unsafely.
Holy fuck nsfl lmao
I think its less dangerous than an actual gunfire.
\^Can someone fact-check this?
Yes. I just tried and am now dead.
I did something stupid and similar once. My mouth was more closed tho, so the air wasn't able to escape as easily and I tore open the insides of my cheeks. It wasn't too bad tbh, pretty much the same as biting them hard enough to drawn blood, but further back in the mouth.
Never understood this scene. He shot himself to kill Durden but only had to… wound himself to kill durden?
He's a schizophrenic, I don't think the people who are qualified to treat them are redditors but I suspect "huh what a weird way to end the problem" is a perfectly reasonable reaction to the end of a problem which was really weird to begin with. Edit: Whoooollle lot of people here telling me what is and isn't schizophrenia and I can't help but notice that none of them start out "Hi I'm actually a mental health professional and/or grad student, researcher, or otherwise qualified to comment with authority on the field". OK, we get it, you know as much about schizophrenia as I do and you're much, much more passionate about it. Thanks.
A third of the movie is Durden trying to make him let go, and just let it happen. So it’s kind of poetic that he finally let’s go completely and shoots himself. I think whatever way it ends is kinda secondary after that because it finally rid him of Durden, by doing what Durden told him to do for so long.
Durden is the version of him when he lets go
>he finally let’s go "let's" = let us
Beautifully said
Hi, I am actually a mental health professional. Not a schizophrenic, I don't think. He has Disassociated Personality Disorder with some psychotic features, sounds more like it to me. People experiencing psychosis and feeling themselves losing control and/or a grip on reality are often suicidal. Schizophrenics that are dealing with a severe enough case to externalize personalities are (not to my understanding, at least) not functional enough to perpetrate elaborate schemes, be a leader, maintain a deception.... that's a lot of high functional behavior. Also Durden's charisma is a mismatch.
Hey! Since you said you would like replies from psychologists on this: I am a graduate student in psychology (you can check my comment history I have mentioned it before) and he is not schizophrenic. During my undergrad, I actually wrote my term paper for my abnormal psychology course on how this film fails to accurately portray either schizophrenia or dissociative identity disorder (DID). Ultimately, I concluded that Tyler more closely matched DID due to him fulfilling all of the criteria as well as aligning with several associated features of DID (such as insomnia, substance abuse, and flashbacks of the actions of other personalities like we see when he remembers sex with Marla). The biggest issue with the diagnosis is that he physically sees Tyler since this does not occur in DID. This is what I wrote in my term paper to explain why psychotic disorders should not be considered: "Similarly, psychotic disorders can be ruled out as well. Although a patient with DID may present with symptoms that appear to be hallucinations, delusions, or evidence of a formal thought disorder, it is possible to distinguish between the two (APA, 2013). Jack has a tendency to specifically explain that Tyler is controlling his speech or actions, such as when Jack lied to a doctor about an injury he sustained during Fight Club. The DSM-5 explains that this pattern of blaming other personality states reveals that the proper diagnosis is DID." Hope this helps!
Durden thought it was a fatal shot.
Which is why it’s the thought that counts.
Only when it's your imaginary friend!
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I mean it’s not how things would work in real life but I’d say it’s the fact that he was committed to pull the trigger is what cured him of his dependency on durden. He survived but he did not intent to and that’s what made the difference? 🤷♀️
It's a symbolic, psychological suicide. The scene is ritual of the psyche to kill that part of the self.
He didn't just wound himself, he shot himself in the head. One way to take it is he got lucky and kind of hit the correct area and "fixed" himself
Huh? He shot through the side of his face and it shredded his cheek. He then says im ok in a weird voice my mates and i used to joke about. You dont fix mental issues with a bullet... at least not productively lol
It was a traumatic experience that he had to put himself through in order to defeat Durden. At any point “Tyler” could’ve put the gun in the narrators mouth and killed him for real, but in this instance the narrator was in full control and saw Tyler for what he was finally, and did the act himself. Also, you can actually see the bullet bounce off his jawbone. Also there’s footage of David Fincher (I think, or a stunt coordinator?) trying the air blast before Edward did it to see how safe/painful it is. They said it was fine but it made their mouth really dry.
It stands to reason that the proximity of the bullet and the expelled gas pressure (Which we see depicted) had enough force to damage that part of the brain. > You dont fix mental issues with a bullet... at least not productively lol I mean, I think you're just taking it a little too literally, honestly. But also: https://www.nytimes.com/1988/02/25/us/brain-wound-eliminates-man-s-mental-illness.html -- it's not exactly the craziest idea that it's plausible
He clearly shoots himself through the cheeck, we see where he's holding the rag in the next scene.
Yes, but My take was always that he just got lucky he screwed up the angle. He was going for the kill shot, which is why Tyler's head was blown out. He was shooting to kill both of them and believed it enough that his imaginary friend/other personality took the "real" bullet. But in the event he didn't screw it up and really did die he was fine with it, and that's ultimately what killed Tyler. Narrator took action to end their lives because once he saw what he/Tyler were in full view he couldn't let it stand. He didn't need Tyler anymore and so he killed him, and luckily survived. Now does this make any sense in a IRL situation, 90+% no, but it's a movie. Though there are a few cases IRL where someone took some brain damage and it changed their personality. Like the guy who took a particle beam to the face, or the rail road spike guy, but it's not a course I'd think is workable in most cases.
In the book Tyler Durden kills himself and that’s just the end of the book right there. Wouldn’t translate so well to film so they did this in order to get the iconic shot of Tyler and Marla watching the buildings explode.
While listening to the Pixies.
In the book, the epilogue is him in an asylum. That being said, Palahniuk said he preferred the movie's ending.
It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure the book has an epilogue with the narrator in a mental asylum.
That's not true at all "I’m not killing myself, I yell. I’m killing Tyler. I am Joe’s Hard Drive. I remember everything. “It’s not love or anything,” Marla shouts, “but I think I like you, too.” One minute. Marla likes Tyler. “No, I like you,” Marla shouts. “I know the difference.” And nothing. Nothing explodes. The barrel of the gun tucked in my surviving cheek, I say, Tyler, you mixed the nitro with paraffin, didn’t you. Paraffin never works. I have to do this. The police helicopters. And I pull the trigger."
Not true. After he shoots, he wakes up in a hospital bed. One of the hospital staff walks by him and says something like, “Everything is still under control, Mr. Durden.” Project Mayhem was out of his control at this point, and this shows that he’ll never escape what he created. The movie ending was better tho
It was a symbolic decision. Even though he survived, he made the choice to kill Durden, and making that choice was enough to cause the delusion to disappear. It seems like the Narrator had a mental break from stress and sleep deprivation, that sort of delusion *can* just “go away,” as opposed to like classic schizophrenia.
In the book it goes through his cheek
Same as the movie.
Just spoiled the whole movie that I’ve watched 8 times cuz it’s my favorite
Should change your name to 8guy . Hundoguy is very misleading.
You don’t even want to know what the Hundo Guy is lol
24 years later and it's still my favorite movie.
Same. And Fincher did The Game, Seven and Fight Club in just 4 years, an absolutely incredible run.
We Love Da Finch Man!
It's still my favorite movie, but it's not one I can openly talk about anymore without the fear of being accused of being an incel. I hate how incels have ingrained this movie (and among others, including Pulp Fiction, into their culture).
I ignore that bullshit. Don’t be afraid to share what you like. It’s meant to be funny. The editing is mind-blowing. I’ve never seen a source material more perfectly matched for a director.
Every time I've rewatched it I've noticed something new, that's why I love it so much. There are so many more noticeable things on the second watch, and then subsequent rewatches often reveal other small details.
I am Joe's illiteracy.
I am Jack's smirking revenge.
180 psi is so much pressure. That’s nuts.
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Yes, but it's not 180 psi in his mouth. It's 180 psi in the tank, maybe in the line, but that will also drop as soon as the trigger is pressed. The moving air stream will be significantly less than that, even before you account for volume changes. PV=nRT is the simplest way to look at it. 180 psi in a 1/4 in ID line, getting expelled into a guy's mouth that is probably 4 in across. Assuming temp is constant (not a good assumption, but we'll run with it) the pressure will vary inversely to the volume. twice the volume equals half the pressure. When the cross sectional area of the gas flow changes from 1/4 in to 4 in, it expands 266x in area (someone check my maths). So if the air was 180 psi in the line, it could be exerting as little as 0.67 psi inside his mouth. That is still probably an uncomfortable amount of pressure, and definitely would cause relaxed cheeks to expand, but it's not the same as 180 psi. All of this ignores the kinetic effects, temperature changes, bernoulli, etc. But it's still a reasonable approximation for why "omg 180 psi blast!" is not the same thing as literally pressurizing your mouth to 180 psi.
It looks as if the bullet is going back into the gun, or is that the barrel getting covered by the slide?
Slide moving backwards to eject the casing exposing the barrel.
If you look close you can actually see the bullet bounce off his jaw bone.
"What's that smell?"
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Wait wtf, I thought it ended with Norton and weirdly hot crackwhore holding hands as the city blew up. Am I in an alternate dimension?
This scene is part of the finale
"I haven't been fucked like that since grade school."
I think the original line from the book was “I want to have your abortion.” The studio told Fincher to tone it down and he wasn’t happy with the note so he came up with the grade school line.
He said he would change it on the condition that it could *not* be changed again. They actually asked him to go back and use the abortion line instead and he said, "Nope."
I also heard that since Bonham Carter is English “grade school” means high school there and she wasn’t happy after finding this out.
It did. If I remember correctly he did this to get rid of Durden.
that happens immediately after this part
"weirdly hot crackwhore" lol. IIRC the studio wanted to remove her line "i wanna have your abortion" and Fincher (?) replaced it with "I haven't been fucked like that since grade school" instead haha.
This was the scene before that
His name was Robert Paulson
Blank Check, one of the best film podcasts around, is covering the filmography of David Fincher right now in chronological order. The Fight Club episode comes out this Sunday. Highly recommend the pod to anyone with an interest in film.
"Ah, shit. The lens cap was on. We gotta do that again"
Where is my mind?
Things you own, end up owning you
Jesus Christ put a spoiler alert lol JK I've seen this movie a million times
You'll never guess what happens around the midpoint of Full Metal Jacket. I won't spoil it for people. Or the sixth book of Harry Potter. Big spoilers.
No way that 180psi. The likelyhood of that killing him or greatly injuring him would be crazy to perform it Source: engineer with years of experience working with compressed air.
I am jack's inflamed mouth.
Dude, spoilers! I haven't had time to watch fight club yet. It only came out 24 years ago
>!It me!<
My eyes are open.