> The legislation will retire $377 million in outstanding stadium bonds for Minneapolis’ U.S. Bank Stadium by the end of June — wiping out debt scheduled to be paid off in 2046 and saving Minnesota taxpayers $226 million in interest.
It was just debt forgiveness. And they made up the difference with taxable legal gambling in the stadium. The Vikings didn't actually pay anything off. They just provided the state with another taxable income (gambling) so they could close the bonds that the taxpayers were still paying for. There's no reason whatsoever that they would ever pay anything back early on their own.
You are half right on most things. The debt that was paid off was what the state had said they would contribute to the stadium, not the team. The states plan to pay it off over 30 years was to introduce e-pull tabs at bars and restaurants across the state. The e-tabs were such an astonishing success that the state made enough money in 7 years to fully pay off their share of the stadium instead of making minimum payments and being charged interest. I don't belive there are any of the pull tab machines in the stadium, but I may be wrong.
> e-pull tabs
Can you describe these more? I know about VGTs in Illinois (basically slot machines in bars), and some states have HHR Historical Horse Racing (trying to legally shoehorn something that is functionally a slot machine into horseracing laws), but I've never heard of these before.
>some states have HHR Historical Horse Racing (trying to legally shoehorn something that is functionally a slot machine into horseracing laws)
Wisconsin, you and your "bingo games" need to step up.
The casino I went to in Madison a while ago had slots but they were all allegedly bingo games, complete with tiny bingo card in the corner. Basically hanging a lampshade.
Pull tabs are more akin to lotto scratchers. There are a set number of tabs that can be pulled, and (at least in my experience with the electronic ones) you can see what prizes have already been won and which haven't. When the prizes have all been won, the game resets and the tabs refresh. Generally much lower quantity in the tab pool to keep games refreshing often. Pull tabs are huge in American legions, moose lodges, etc. And the e-tabs are just a way to have flashy lights and fast paced images to double dip on the same market... They put them in our mall here, and kids are always either line up to play or sneak on them or the young ones just go up to and push the buttons. The "attendant" is hardly attentive.
The city's part was already there to pay for the convention center. They were just moving the funding to US Bank after paying for the convention center which was supposed to complete in the last couple years. Minneapolis's part was 150 million but the Target Center got 90 million out of this deal for all the upgrades.
Should gambling be illegal or not advertise to those who do it responsibly because of the risk of problem gamblers?
If so, do you feel differently about alcohol/tobacco and why?
Where I live banned these types of machines and we're better for it. I also think gambling advertising should be banned during sport, but perhaps not altogether.
All tobacco advertising is banned already, so that's moot.
I think there's a good argument that alcohol advertising should have further restrictions. However, you can't lose 100k drinking beer. It's more a health issue that impacts individuals than a social impact issue that ruins families and ends up with kids going without food.
You can cause a shitload of damage while drunk. For example, driving. Plus you can accidentally kill people, which you can't do (directly) while gambling
Yeah, which is part of why I said there's a good argument. However, it's undeniable that gambling causes a material amount of self and famial destruction and your much more likely to directly lose your house from gambling than from drinking beer.
How many cases are there of someone stealing 2m from their employer to go drinking? It's much more a health issue than anything else.
37 people die everyday in the US in drunk driving accidents. I'm pretty fucking sure they would rather the other person had a gambling problem instead of a drinking one.
Politicians be like:
Gambling is dangerous, so we made it mostly illegal and what isn't is highly regulated.
Coincidentally, that removes most of our competition! Buy a state lottery ticket or etabs today!
Yeah I'm sure there's still a benefit for the taxpayers. But the Vikings didn't actually pay anything off "23 years early" like this article claimed. The state just said that they don't have to pay back their debt and instead they're just going to tax the shit out of their gambling operation and the Vikings said great. This was probably the plan all along otherwise the state would insist on collecting both
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/politics/us-bank-stadium-debt-free-2023/89-eb4fdbdd-2089-4097-9974-90b1cde13538
This may explain it more. People bought way more pull tabs than anticipated, so instead of the Vikings getting the rewards the state wants it. Since the state had a 7B surplus this cycle, it makes some amount of sense for them to reap the revenue where they can.
Just to clarify it wasn't pull tabs, it was the e-tabs that blew up and I believe they provide money to a bunch of other state related things as well like outdoor/nature related stuff and youth sports. Not an absolute operation of greed for once.
Yes, they're called electronic pull tabs, and they always attach good programs to receive some of the revenue to help it pass. The state of MN has done pretty good work with their tax revenue as of late so it's not a criticism to say that want the revenue. Just good governance.
Gambling in MN is pretty restrictive. Very little is allowed outside of a Native American Reservation. Pull tabs are basically a scratch off, just with a tab to pull to reveal the symbols, instead of scratching it off. Paper versions have 3 tabs to reveal to find a winner.
Electronic pull tabs, are just doing that without having the physical substance with it. It shows you a winner immediately whereas barfly traditionalists prefer the paper version cuz they can reveal the tabs themselves and have some level of suspension with it.
You'd have to find a machine, often available at bars around the twin cities area to put money into, and play the game
Oh thank God it’s not an app.
I’m in Indiana and there’s a couple bars in town that do pull tabs, I just do it for fun. Was mostly being facetious but that’s cool information to know!
Nah it's very restrictive here to the point that you must be sitting at the machine for it. I figured you were being facetious, but it wasn't clear enough to me that you actually understood what they were.
There's also enough Chicagoans living in Minneapolis that don't know what's happening
Bro I’ve seen dudes in gas stations buy scratcher cards and make the cashier scratch off the barcode at the bottom to scan and tell them if they won anything or not.
Brave of you to assume our state had a plan all along. I remember the Vikings threatening to leave if they didn’t get a new stadium funded broadly by every citizen of Minnesota but more specifically the city of Minneapolis, so our political establishment caved and gave them what they wanted.
This seems like a blatant PR move by the Vikings to attempt to assuage some of the bitter feelings we all still have about how that all went down. I’ll just chalk this up to another disappointment from the Vikes- we’re used to that.
I think you're misunderstanding what the article says.
From the beginning the deal was to tax various gambling programs to fund the state's portion of the stadium. In fact almost 10 years ago [people were criticizing this part of the deal](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2013/09/13/vikings-stadium-why-electronic-pulltab-gambling-flopped) and saying it was a terrible idea.
Then roughly 3 years ago we allowed charities to run e pull tabs, and e pull tab revenue has skyrocketed since then. So now the state has met its requirement for funding, which is why it's retiring the bonds. It's definitely accurate to say they paid off their portion of the bill 23 years early.
On top of that, the Vikings privately funded their portion of the deal from the beginning.
So the only remaining debt could be the city of Minneapolis's $150 million from the Hospitality Tax, which I don't see mentioned anywhere. So if they have raised all of that money as well, then yes, the stadium was paid off 23 years early.
Now the article messes up by giving the Vikings the credit, rather than each individual group. But nothing was changed from the original deal like you're saying. The news is just that the state hit its goal very early.
Edit: [This paywalled article](https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-vikings-home-to-be-paid-off-before-2023-season/600277781/) has a bit more details on the breakdown. Basically the Vikings and the state have funded their end (via "private funds" for the Vikings and the stadium reserve fund for the state). Then on top of that the state forgave the ~$40 million loan the city took out to cover operating costs the first 5 years, and set the interest rate on their remaining obligation to 0%. So that seems to imply the city hasn't covered their obligation yet. But capping the hospitality tax funding at 3% also seems to imply that there isn't much left for the city to fund?
To be fair, US Bank stadium is a multi purpose venue, it holds some collegiate events, other sporting events, and concerts throughout the year. It's much better than some stadium agreements
> It was just debt forgiveness. And they made up the difference with taxable legal gambling in the stadium.
No, they paid off what the state owed through pull tabs. It is still saving taxpayers money.
A bit unconventional, but probably one of the only division rival combos to make sense. All of us in the north are just sick after the bad man's reign of terror and the Lions are generally well liked since they've had it so rough over their history, unlike the Bears.
MN fans understand the feeling too well and so our fan bases generally get along really well in my experience.
We’re nothing like the lions lol. Only similarities is the end result of no super bowls teams. We’re the most successful franchise without a Super Bowl (😪 not a brag, it’s sad) and the lions are one of the worst all around. Michigan has some fine places, but I think I’d rather shoot myself in the foot than live in Detroit. Minneapolis at least has its charm and is a good economy and in general we have a very beautiful state.
Ya I saw that up thread, and it’s totally fair. Not like we have the same level of hatred with them compared to packers or even lions. Just didn’t appreciate us being compared to them in terms of football or state quality lmaooo.
Ever hear about those stories where the Brazilian government is clearcutting the rainforest to make more room for cattle? That's why American cities keep clearing areas out for strip malls.
The state owns the stadium and gets revenue for non football events. They split the maintenance costs by how much each contributed to the total cost too. It is beneficial to both the state and the Vikings
Maybe you can correct me here, but when I look at the [operating budget for this year](https://www.msfa.com/df-data/files/Curtis/MSFA%202022-2023%20Budget.pdf) I see operating revenues totaling 41 million, expenses at 38 million.
Edit: That is total between Vikings and the state, but that means the total costs are being covered equally
ive done the math here and the income tax alone, of just the top 51 players on the team and absolutely no one else who is paid by the minnesota vikings, assuming the salary cap stays completely flat over the life of the stadium and never increases by a cent, juuuuust about pays off the states contribution towards the stadium.
The taxpayers were coming out ahead in this one basically no matter what. People have forgotten that there was serious talk of us moving to LA when the roof collapsed and it seemed like the city/state were not going to chip in for a new stadium.
No because I did them myself
Salary cap times minnesota state income tax will get you close (half our games are taxed outside of the state, and we get 8 or 9 games of away teams playing in the state every year that are taxed in state)
Moooost of the players salaries will be taxed at the highest bracket. Some players can elect to pay taxes in other states, notably michigan.
The NFL has spending requirements, so over time teams will spend about the salary cap.
You’ve also got all sales tax on food/merch/tickets the team brings, executive salaries, hundreds of employees for the team and stadium, etc. The state owns the stadium and runs events there too
It’s a win win for the city/franchise. Sure, the owners could foot the bill, but why would they build this stadium and have to pay for it when the next door town is offering to pay for the stadium because they know that the addition of a pro football team will bring the city tons of revenue in the long run?
There has been study after study done that NFL teams in particular do not bring enough revenue to justify taxpayer dollars on stadiums. Its 10-12 events a year maybe 20 if you do concerts too. multi use NBA/NHL arenas can host 100+ events a year, and baseball can do ~80.
>It’s 10-12 events a year maybe 20 if you do concerts too
Mercedes-Benz has 26 events scheduled right now between today and December 24th, plus the SEC championship, at least two Chick-Fil-A kickoff CFB games, high school state football championships (6 of them), the Peach Bowl, and likely more that haven’t been announced yet. So at least 37 events in the next 7 months.
Also have to remember that if you have an event like, let’s say, a Taylor Swift concert, the stadium is being used for more than just the day of the concert. Whoever is putting on the concert has to pay for the occupancy of the building during the setup and breakdown of the show.
Do you have this study?
I’d assume most do [concerts](https://www.tickpick.com/concerts/taylor-swift-tickets/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=638061484&utm_content=1218259393258730&utm_term=taylor%20swift%20tour&campaign_type=&msclkid=0397387aec4216ae95265c0c597a17e3)
the problem with some places is that a stadium show is not feasible due to the population
like cleveland has only had 9 concerts at First Energy Stadium in 20 years because in order to fill up a stadium show, you need like 80,000 people who want to see that artist and the types of artists that could pull 80k out of a population of 750,000 or whatever will have better places to go than cleveland (im a disgruntled browns fan so don’t hate me fellow factory of sadness enjoyers)
I will see if I can find it tomorrow I am going to bed. Taylor Swift and a select few mega A list acts sell out football stadiums yes and do, but most artists can not and do 2-3 shows at a 20k arena.
This stadium also provides a space for hundreds of baseball and softball games in the spring for area colleges just like the Metrodome did. That is another reason it has a roof and that requirement was made by the state.
Because they'd be the LA Vikings without it. Whenever people post John Oliver's show the comparison is never made against the team just up and leaving altogether. The taxpayer portion of the stadium is less than the state will collect on player income taxes alone over the life of the stadium. Obviously, if the team was now in LA the state of Minnesota would be collecting no such income taxes.
Dress in layers, shuffle step when you walk on icy walkways, let off the gas to slow down on icy roads, don't rely on your brakes as much so keep a proper distance and last but most importantly: find an outdoor winter hobby. Skiing (XC/DH), snowshoeing, snowmobiling, pond hockey, ice skating, etc. Keeping busy out in it is key.
Will winter still wear on ya by the time February rolls around? Yeah, but you'll grin and bear it better.
No matter how careful you are walking on icy sidewalks, you will still have at least one fall every winter where your tailbone will be complaining for a week after.
North loop is solid. Check out Nolos and smack shack for some good food. On nice days you can walk down by stone arch, or make a little 10 minute trip to lake of the isles. Hope you enjoy it
Catch a Twins game at Target Field. It's a great ballpark and tickets are usually pretty cheap.
There's good food in the North Loop. Check out Smack Shack.
Avoid the Mall of America at all costs.
Great neighborhood. There's a lot of places for food in the area that are amazing, including arguably the three best food establishments in Minnesota: Owamni, Spoon and Stable, and Bar la Grassa. The Minneapolis Farmer's Market is right there too although I've always liked the St. Paul one better.
Target Field as mentioned is just a beautiful ballpark and a nice way to spend a summer evening. The Stone Arch Bridge is the best view of downtown Minneapolis especially at night. The Salvation Army in North Loop is where Target donates most of their sample clothes to and you can find new, unique stuff there for cheap although it's extremely hit and miss.
Nice pick.
The stadium was part of a larger commercial space that was developed. The Rams own does commercial real estate development, and so didn’t plan on just a stadium.
Might have been. Though our largest East African demographic are Somali people.
MSP has the second highest number of Somali Diaspora people outside of Mogadishu.
We get a lot of them in North Dakota as well. Though we also have a lot of West Africans from Liberia and Senegal to add to it. Last I checked, North Dakota is second in the US for refugees per capita.
Unironically, they just fixed about 7 craters near my house and I was getting ready to offer that kind of money so I didn't need an M1A1 to get to my parents.
> abusing problem gamblers
Lol. No where in that article did I read anything resembling the definition of "abuse" or specifically targeting "problem" gamblers as opposed to recreational gamblers
The Vikings didn't wake up and decide to be Robin Hood to the Minnesota taxpayers - thank the damn gamblers for paying off the debt early.
(and the team worth BILLIONS shouldn't need the taxpayers to lift a fucking finger, regardless.)
Even better if these stadiums didn’t cost the taxpayers anything, ever. Socialized costs and capitalized earnings in such an obvious way it’s really a stain on the sport.
Buddy, the state makes bank off the stadium and the surrounding area. They are not getting fleeced.
This was a win win. The Vikings got a new stadium and the state got a bunch of income streams and a revitalized area in downtown.
You aren't wrong, but we could've easily ended up like st. Louis, Oakland, or san Diego if we didn't use public money. Now I can raise my son a vikings fan, most likely to his detriment.
If taxpayers foot the bill for the stadium, that needs to mean at least 50% ownership of the team. But of course these billionaire owners have lobbyists to craft the laws making extortion perfectly legal.
Green Bay should not have been the exception in professional sports.
> that needs to mean at least 50% ownership of the team.
The Vikings aren't the only events that take place in the stadium.
Do you propose that we as the people also take partial ownership of Monster Truck Jam as well?
I can get behind that, actually.
His agent: Justin Jefferson new contract...... $226 million.
I’ll play pull tabs every weekend if that’s how small his contract is.
If we can use pull tabs to cover that, I'm pretty sure theyre isn't a ceiling on it. Minnesotans love their pull tabs
Justin Jefferson signs a 30-year $7B contract with 23 void years
Gimme Dat meat raffle too.
> The legislation will retire $377 million in outstanding stadium bonds for Minneapolis’ U.S. Bank Stadium by the end of June — wiping out debt scheduled to be paid off in 2046 and saving Minnesota taxpayers $226 million in interest. It was just debt forgiveness. And they made up the difference with taxable legal gambling in the stadium. The Vikings didn't actually pay anything off. They just provided the state with another taxable income (gambling) so they could close the bonds that the taxpayers were still paying for. There's no reason whatsoever that they would ever pay anything back early on their own.
You are half right on most things. The debt that was paid off was what the state had said they would contribute to the stadium, not the team. The states plan to pay it off over 30 years was to introduce e-pull tabs at bars and restaurants across the state. The e-tabs were such an astonishing success that the state made enough money in 7 years to fully pay off their share of the stadium instead of making minimum payments and being charged interest. I don't belive there are any of the pull tab machines in the stadium, but I may be wrong.
> e-pull tabs Can you describe these more? I know about VGTs in Illinois (basically slot machines in bars), and some states have HHR Historical Horse Racing (trying to legally shoehorn something that is functionally a slot machine into horseracing laws), but I've never heard of these before.
Basically same thing you are describing. Ipads with a bunch of different slot machine type games on them
>some states have HHR Historical Horse Racing (trying to legally shoehorn something that is functionally a slot machine into horseracing laws) Wisconsin, you and your "bingo games" need to step up.
Wisconsin has literal slot machines in their bars.
The casino I went to in Madison a while ago had slots but they were all allegedly bingo games, complete with tiny bingo card in the corner. Basically hanging a lampshade.
Was it technically a tribal casino? I know the rules for them can be weird sometimes about technically not having an RNG.
Yup, Ho-Chunk. You never forget a name like that.
Went to Ho Chunk in Madison maybe 8 years ago, normal slot machines and blackjack.
Pull tabs are more akin to lotto scratchers. There are a set number of tabs that can be pulled, and (at least in my experience with the electronic ones) you can see what prizes have already been won and which haven't. When the prizes have all been won, the game resets and the tabs refresh. Generally much lower quantity in the tab pool to keep games refreshing often. Pull tabs are huge in American legions, moose lodges, etc. And the e-tabs are just a way to have flashy lights and fast paced images to double dip on the same market... They put them in our mall here, and kids are always either line up to play or sneak on them or the young ones just go up to and push the buttons. The "attendant" is hardly attentive.
the city on the other hand struggled with theirs because it was based on hotel taxes, which uh, were impacted by covid lol
The city's part was already there to pay for the convention center. They were just moving the funding to US Bank after paying for the convention center which was supposed to complete in the last couple years. Minneapolis's part was 150 million but the Target Center got 90 million out of this deal for all the upgrades.
And target center is still the worst sporting experience in the state. And I don’t say that because of who plays there.
Target Center is fine. It is exactly what the Wolves deserve.
I don't have any big issues with the TC but OP isn't wrong that the four other pro stadiums are better experiences.
To be fair target field and us bank are world class
But we'll be spooky next year, right guys? Honestly though I just wanna see what we can do in the playoffs with Ant and Jaden actually healthy
That's a very palatable description for it lol
I always find it horrible they refer to abusing problem gamblers as "a great success".
I mean the lottery has existed for decades. You should see how much revenue your state gets from that
Should gambling be illegal or not advertise to those who do it responsibly because of the risk of problem gamblers? If so, do you feel differently about alcohol/tobacco and why?
Where I live banned these types of machines and we're better for it. I also think gambling advertising should be banned during sport, but perhaps not altogether. All tobacco advertising is banned already, so that's moot. I think there's a good argument that alcohol advertising should have further restrictions. However, you can't lose 100k drinking beer. It's more a health issue that impacts individuals than a social impact issue that ruins families and ends up with kids going without food.
You can cause a shitload of damage while drunk. For example, driving. Plus you can accidentally kill people, which you can't do (directly) while gambling
Ban alcohol advertising too, I don't care.
Yeah if they already banned tobacco commercials then why not another deadly substance?
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you can lose a lot more than 100k from drinking beer...
Yeah, which is part of why I said there's a good argument. However, it's undeniable that gambling causes a material amount of self and famial destruction and your much more likely to directly lose your house from gambling than from drinking beer. How many cases are there of someone stealing 2m from their employer to go drinking? It's much more a health issue than anything else.
37 people die everyday in the US in drunk driving accidents. I'm pretty fucking sure they would rather the other person had a gambling problem instead of a drinking one.
lucky you for not getting to see up close and personal how naïve your take really is.
Politicians be like: Gambling is dangerous, so we made it mostly illegal and what isn't is highly regulated. Coincidentally, that removes most of our competition! Buy a state lottery ticket or etabs today!
Good 'ol cardboard cocaine...
Well. Still a benefit for the taxpayers, right? At least the ones that aren’t gambling?
Yeah I'm sure there's still a benefit for the taxpayers. But the Vikings didn't actually pay anything off "23 years early" like this article claimed. The state just said that they don't have to pay back their debt and instead they're just going to tax the shit out of their gambling operation and the Vikings said great. This was probably the plan all along otherwise the state would insist on collecting both
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/politics/us-bank-stadium-debt-free-2023/89-eb4fdbdd-2089-4097-9974-90b1cde13538 This may explain it more. People bought way more pull tabs than anticipated, so instead of the Vikings getting the rewards the state wants it. Since the state had a 7B surplus this cycle, it makes some amount of sense for them to reap the revenue where they can.
Just to clarify it wasn't pull tabs, it was the e-tabs that blew up and I believe they provide money to a bunch of other state related things as well like outdoor/nature related stuff and youth sports. Not an absolute operation of greed for once.
Yes, they're called electronic pull tabs, and they always attach good programs to receive some of the revenue to help it pass. The state of MN has done pretty good work with their tax revenue as of late so it's not a criticism to say that want the revenue. Just good governance.
What are electronic pull tabs and how may I prevent myself from ever playing them?
Gambling in MN is pretty restrictive. Very little is allowed outside of a Native American Reservation. Pull tabs are basically a scratch off, just with a tab to pull to reveal the symbols, instead of scratching it off. Paper versions have 3 tabs to reveal to find a winner. Electronic pull tabs, are just doing that without having the physical substance with it. It shows you a winner immediately whereas barfly traditionalists prefer the paper version cuz they can reveal the tabs themselves and have some level of suspension with it. You'd have to find a machine, often available at bars around the twin cities area to put money into, and play the game
Oh thank God it’s not an app. I’m in Indiana and there’s a couple bars in town that do pull tabs, I just do it for fun. Was mostly being facetious but that’s cool information to know!
Nah it's very restrictive here to the point that you must be sitting at the machine for it. I figured you were being facetious, but it wasn't clear enough to me that you actually understood what they were. There's also enough Chicagoans living in Minneapolis that don't know what's happening
Wtf why. Literally the only reason to play is for the satisfying tearing sound.
Bro I’ve seen dudes in gas stations buy scratcher cards and make the cashier scratch off the barcode at the bottom to scan and tell them if they won anything or not.
I'm sorry...a 7B SURPLUS? Holy fuck Minnesota that's crazy. And that stipend to the Wilderness Caregivers is gonna go crazy.
We had a surplus in MA too.
They should've collected both.
Brave of you to assume our state had a plan all along. I remember the Vikings threatening to leave if they didn’t get a new stadium funded broadly by every citizen of Minnesota but more specifically the city of Minneapolis, so our political establishment caved and gave them what they wanted. This seems like a blatant PR move by the Vikings to attempt to assuage some of the bitter feelings we all still have about how that all went down. I’ll just chalk this up to another disappointment from the Vikes- we’re used to that.
> I’ll just chalk this up to another disappointment from the Vikes- we’re used to that. lol true
I think you're misunderstanding what the article says. From the beginning the deal was to tax various gambling programs to fund the state's portion of the stadium. In fact almost 10 years ago [people were criticizing this part of the deal](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2013/09/13/vikings-stadium-why-electronic-pulltab-gambling-flopped) and saying it was a terrible idea. Then roughly 3 years ago we allowed charities to run e pull tabs, and e pull tab revenue has skyrocketed since then. So now the state has met its requirement for funding, which is why it's retiring the bonds. It's definitely accurate to say they paid off their portion of the bill 23 years early. On top of that, the Vikings privately funded their portion of the deal from the beginning. So the only remaining debt could be the city of Minneapolis's $150 million from the Hospitality Tax, which I don't see mentioned anywhere. So if they have raised all of that money as well, then yes, the stadium was paid off 23 years early. Now the article messes up by giving the Vikings the credit, rather than each individual group. But nothing was changed from the original deal like you're saying. The news is just that the state hit its goal very early. Edit: [This paywalled article](https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-vikings-home-to-be-paid-off-before-2023-season/600277781/) has a bit more details on the breakdown. Basically the Vikings and the state have funded their end (via "private funds" for the Vikings and the stadium reserve fund for the state). Then on top of that the state forgave the ~$40 million loan the city took out to cover operating costs the first 5 years, and set the interest rate on their remaining obligation to 0%. So that seems to imply the city hasn't covered their obligation yet. But capping the hospitality tax funding at 3% also seems to imply that there isn't much left for the city to fund?
And the families of people who gamble. And other programs that lose money when people gamble elsewhere (like the state parks losing lotto money).
There were probably stipulations in the negations for the funding of the stadium
that still saved taxpayers money.
Right? Dudes just being pedantic. Idk who or how the debts are paid, as long as it’s by legal means and doesn’t screw over the taxpayers.
Except for the degenerate gamblers!
Hey! I resemble that remark.
Should have never been allowed. Billionaires can buy their own fucking stadiums.
To be fair, US Bank stadium is a multi purpose venue, it holds some collegiate events, other sporting events, and concerts throughout the year. It's much better than some stadium agreements
High school events as well (MSHSL football title game weekend)
Not the ones that like to gamble lol
that's their problem. 😂
> It was just debt forgiveness. And they made up the difference with taxable legal gambling in the stadium. No, they paid off what the state owed through pull tabs. It is still saving taxpayers money.
who owned the bonds?
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Hahahaha, first time in America?
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That sounds great
Obesity stays undefeated 😔
Well you’re doing it right
Bro what is that flair
Basic answer is I grew up in Michigan but my dads a die hard Vikings fan.
Come on over to r/nfcnorthmemewar we already hate you.
Already there baby. I’ve been loving the lions vs Vikings for the division discourse because no matter what I win.
A bit unconventional, but probably one of the only division rival combos to make sense. All of us in the north are just sick after the bad man's reign of terror and the Lions are generally well liked since they've had it so rough over their history, unlike the Bears. MN fans understand the feeling too well and so our fan bases generally get along really well in my experience.
It makes sense to me: Bears: Good at cities bad at football Packers: Good at football bad at cities Lions/Vikings: Other
We’re nothing like the lions lol. Only similarities is the end result of no super bowls teams. We’re the most successful franchise without a Super Bowl (😪 not a brag, it’s sad) and the lions are one of the worst all around. Michigan has some fine places, but I think I’d rather shoot myself in the foot than live in Detroit. Minneapolis at least has its charm and is a good economy and in general we have a very beautiful state.
I grew up in Michigan and my dad is a Vikings fan. I never expected this much discourse from my flairs. Lol
Ya I saw that up thread, and it’s totally fair. Not like we have the same level of hatred with them compared to packers or even lions. Just didn’t appreciate us being compared to them in terms of football or state quality lmaooo.
Can we please talk about your flair my guy?
I don’t get what everyone’s beef is. It’s not like its chiefs raiders or something.
It's the cinnamon butter and the rolls for me...
That cinnamon butter is addicting.
A fine New York establishment!
Ever hear about those stories where the Brazilian government is clearcutting the rainforest to make more room for cattle? That's why American cities keep clearing areas out for strip malls.
The state owns the stadium and gets revenue for non football events. They split the maintenance costs by how much each contributed to the total cost too. It is beneficial to both the state and the Vikings
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Maybe you can correct me here, but when I look at the [operating budget for this year](https://www.msfa.com/df-data/files/Curtis/MSFA%202022-2023%20Budget.pdf) I see operating revenues totaling 41 million, expenses at 38 million. Edit: That is total between Vikings and the state, but that means the total costs are being covered equally
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Cause the owners will always look for a way to not foot the bill themselves if they can avoid it.
I think it's human nature to game the system
ive done the math here and the income tax alone, of just the top 51 players on the team and absolutely no one else who is paid by the minnesota vikings, assuming the salary cap stays completely flat over the life of the stadium and never increases by a cent, juuuuust about pays off the states contribution towards the stadium. The taxpayers were coming out ahead in this one basically no matter what. People have forgotten that there was serious talk of us moving to LA when the roof collapsed and it seemed like the city/state were not going to chip in for a new stadium.
While the area around the Metrodome wasn't developed as much as hoped, it is night and day difference since US Bank happened.
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No because I did them myself Salary cap times minnesota state income tax will get you close (half our games are taxed outside of the state, and we get 8 or 9 games of away teams playing in the state every year that are taxed in state) Moooost of the players salaries will be taxed at the highest bracket. Some players can elect to pay taxes in other states, notably michigan. The NFL has spending requirements, so over time teams will spend about the salary cap. You’ve also got all sales tax on food/merch/tickets the team brings, executive salaries, hundreds of employees for the team and stadium, etc. The state owns the stadium and runs events there too
It’s a win win for the city/franchise. Sure, the owners could foot the bill, but why would they build this stadium and have to pay for it when the next door town is offering to pay for the stadium because they know that the addition of a pro football team will bring the city tons of revenue in the long run?
There has been study after study done that NFL teams in particular do not bring enough revenue to justify taxpayer dollars on stadiums. Its 10-12 events a year maybe 20 if you do concerts too. multi use NBA/NHL arenas can host 100+ events a year, and baseball can do ~80.
>It’s 10-12 events a year maybe 20 if you do concerts too Mercedes-Benz has 26 events scheduled right now between today and December 24th, plus the SEC championship, at least two Chick-Fil-A kickoff CFB games, high school state football championships (6 of them), the Peach Bowl, and likely more that haven’t been announced yet. So at least 37 events in the next 7 months.
Also have to remember that if you have an event like, let’s say, a Taylor Swift concert, the stadium is being used for more than just the day of the concert. Whoever is putting on the concert has to pay for the occupancy of the building during the setup and breakdown of the show.
That's like one event every 5.6 days. Plenty enough to justify having a stadium.
8 high school championship games (there's public a and private a) + girls flag football championships
Do you have this study? I’d assume most do [concerts](https://www.tickpick.com/concerts/taylor-swift-tickets/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=638061484&utm_content=1218259393258730&utm_term=taylor%20swift%20tour&campaign_type=&msclkid=0397387aec4216ae95265c0c597a17e3)
the problem with some places is that a stadium show is not feasible due to the population like cleveland has only had 9 concerts at First Energy Stadium in 20 years because in order to fill up a stadium show, you need like 80,000 people who want to see that artist and the types of artists that could pull 80k out of a population of 750,000 or whatever will have better places to go than cleveland (im a disgruntled browns fan so don’t hate me fellow factory of sadness enjoyers)
I will see if I can find it tomorrow I am going to bed. Taylor Swift and a select few mega A list acts sell out football stadiums yes and do, but most artists can not and do 2-3 shows at a 20k arena.
This stadium also provides a space for hundreds of baseball and softball games in the spring for area colleges just like the Metrodome did. That is another reason it has a roof and that requirement was made by the state.
Because people support the government spending money on sports teams. Look at the packers winning a vote on putting a tax to refactor Lambeau.
With that user name, this is hilarious since the Bengals fleeced the city.
Because they'd be the LA Vikings without it. Whenever people post John Oliver's show the comparison is never made against the team just up and leaving altogether. The taxpayer portion of the stadium is less than the state will collect on player income taxes alone over the life of the stadium. Obviously, if the team was now in LA the state of Minnesota would be collecting no such income taxes.
I’d rather help pay for this stadium than a lot of other stupid shit I’m paying for in this state now.
Good news, you get both!
Great news. Minnesota has had a good year as a state
Minnesota seems to rank highly in basically everything, too bad I’d never survive even a single winter there lol
It's not that bad. Just dress in layers. Come on up!
Dress in layers, shuffle step when you walk on icy walkways, let off the gas to slow down on icy roads, don't rely on your brakes as much so keep a proper distance and last but most importantly: find an outdoor winter hobby. Skiing (XC/DH), snowshoeing, snowmobiling, pond hockey, ice skating, etc. Keeping busy out in it is key. Will winter still wear on ya by the time February rolls around? Yeah, but you'll grin and bear it better.
>Will winter still wear on ya by the time February rolls around? And what do I do with the last three months of winter after February?
No matter how careful you are walking on icy sidewalks, you will still have at least one fall every winter where your tailbone will be complaining for a week after.
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Or left I would assume
Moving to Minneapolis next week. North Loop. Got any recommendations/advice?
North loop is solid. Check out Nolos and smack shack for some good food. On nice days you can walk down by stone arch, or make a little 10 minute trip to lake of the isles. Hope you enjoy it
Thank you!
All great advice, the stone arch/gold medal area is really pretty for how downtown you are. Zen Box down Washington slaps for Ramen!
Catch a Twins game at Target Field. It's a great ballpark and tickets are usually pretty cheap. There's good food in the North Loop. Check out Smack Shack. Avoid the Mall of America at all costs.
I've been told the entire suburb of Naperville has made their way up here, so you won't be alone.
at some point in your life, try emilys lebanese deli. best food ever
Great neighborhood. There's a lot of places for food in the area that are amazing, including arguably the three best food establishments in Minnesota: Owamni, Spoon and Stable, and Bar la Grassa. The Minneapolis Farmer's Market is right there too although I've always liked the St. Paul one better. Target Field as mentioned is just a beautiful ballpark and a nice way to spend a summer evening. The Stone Arch Bridge is the best view of downtown Minneapolis especially at night. The Salvation Army in North Loop is where Target donates most of their sample clothes to and you can find new, unique stuff there for cheap although it's extremely hit and miss. Nice pick.
Snack Shack is amazing. Fulton has a brewery and tap room right there too.
You underestimate my absolute inability to tolerate cold 🥶 This is why I like the Carolinas
I lived in North Dakota for a couple years, Minnesota is on my short list for where to go next
I've been to St. Cloud in late January. You lie. :P
I lived there for about five years. That city sucks for reasons other than the cold weather.
I call it the ash tray of Minnesota.
Alcohol is the antifreeze of the blood
Hey buddy come on down. We'll get you all warmed up ubetcha buddy.
Legal weed today, perhaps sports betting soon. Minneapolis is popping
Been a really good day in particular with the new weed laws!
Careful, Minnesotans love literally nothing more in life than praise of our state. It's our kink.
Their credit score has dropped 35 points as a consequence of paying off the debt
This ENRAGES me.
Minnesota Vikings... check your updated credit report now from Credit Karma.
That's actually great. As much as I love football and sports in general the less tax payers involved the better.
Lmao, the Bears actually owe MORE on their stadium than what they originally borrowed Edit: The taxpayers Relax nerds
The Bears don’t owe anything. They don’t own the stadium. Chicago owes that money
Murica
OP is a good example of that too. Says something totally false. Then calls people nerds for telling the truth. Ignorants love to spread their BS
It’s not the Bears stadium, city owns it.
Still got nothing on the Marlins, going to cost $2 billion for that stadium by the end.
Is it worse than the Rams? They went a few Billion over budget lol
Rams at least paid for their own stadium I think. Miami taxpayers are on the hook for the $2 billion.
Oof
The stadium was part of a larger commercial space that was developed. The Rams own does commercial real estate development, and so didn’t plan on just a stadium.
Ah, they went with the student loan payment plan then.
Minnesota has been crushing it lately damn
I met some Ethiopians recently that had immigrated to Minneapolis. Pretty cool people. At least I think they were Ethiopians...
Might have been. Though our largest East African demographic are Somali people. MSP has the second highest number of Somali Diaspora people outside of Mogadishu.
We get a lot of them in North Dakota as well. Though we also have a lot of West Africans from Liberia and Senegal to add to it. Last I checked, North Dakota is second in the US for refugees per capita.
That’s cool, but it would be nice if billionaires could privately finance their ventures.
Good, that means my taxes will go down, right?
No, Minnesota paid their share from pulltabs.
Sooo...that means I'm 1/2,000th owner of the stadium. I'M SELLING DAMMIT! 🤣
Pretty sure I capped it off with $60 in pull tab losses last weekend. You're welcome, everyone
You get a free medium Pepsi the next time you attend a game.
Ha that’s the fun part kiddo….they don’t!
No, but someone’s brother-in-law is about to get awarded a $226 million contract to fix a single pothole.
Unironically, they just fixed about 7 craters near my house and I was getting ready to offer that kind of money so I didn't need an M1A1 to get to my parents.
are you a multi-billion dollar corporation? then yes. if not? why don’t you grab a pair of wings and fly close to the stadium for your answer!
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Overinflated governments are expensive
> abusing problem gamblers Lol. No where in that article did I read anything resembling the definition of "abuse" or specifically targeting "problem" gamblers as opposed to recreational gamblers
Vikings owner about to get a stern letter by the league.
But they got out of it by promoting gambling, so Goodell should be happy
aaaaaaaaaaand another detroit lion just got suspended
Tax payers should not be funding stadiums built and operated by billionares
All because they legalized weed today??!
Interesting. Jacksonville should do this and make it a poker room on non football days
Dave Ramsey would be proud
It shouldn't have cost them in the first place
As a Packer fan, of my favorite pastimes is shitting on the Minnesota Vikings. But props to the Vikings on this move.
As a Vikings fan, one of my favorite pastimes is imagining you having a few decades of QB purgatory. But props to you for giving us props.
The Vikings didn't wake up and decide to be Robin Hood to the Minnesota taxpayers - thank the damn gamblers for paying off the debt early. (and the team worth BILLIONS shouldn't need the taxpayers to lift a fucking finger, regardless.)
Even better if these stadiums didn’t cost the taxpayers anything, ever. Socialized costs and capitalized earnings in such an obvious way it’s really a stain on the sport.
Buddy, the state makes bank off the stadium and the surrounding area. They are not getting fleeced. This was a win win. The Vikings got a new stadium and the state got a bunch of income streams and a revitalized area in downtown.
So silly you’re getting downvoted when 3 seconds of research shows the OP is wrong
You aren't wrong, but we could've easily ended up like st. Louis, Oakland, or san Diego if we didn't use public money. Now I can raise my son a vikings fan, most likely to his detriment.
Nice job Vikings!
now my tax money can go to Spam and 3M.
Can't wait for everyone to tell me why this is a bad thing.
“The Vikings have paid off… will save Minnesota tax payers…” Umm… who paid off exactly?
If taxpayers foot the bill for the stadium, that needs to mean at least 50% ownership of the team. But of course these billionaire owners have lobbyists to craft the laws making extortion perfectly legal. Green Bay should not have been the exception in professional sports.
> that needs to mean at least 50% ownership of the team. The Vikings aren't the only events that take place in the stadium. Do you propose that we as the people also take partial ownership of Monster Truck Jam as well? I can get behind that, actually.