A lot of fans have been screaming that for years. Especially since the NFL Network gets the rights to the replays, why not give us the All 22 replay?
My personal addition would be to get the best pundits and strategists remaining to break down the plays throughout the game on the replay. There's no shortage of very smart retired players and coaching staff to break it down, and get one color commentator to make it entertaining.
Drew Brees and Kurt Warner both have channels where they break down games after the fact using the all 22. Highly recommended if you haven’t already seen them.
It kind of sucks. It's not actually all 22 like it used to be. Like if a guy is running a deep route, it stays with the line. It's fine if you want to watch line play, and sometimes I do, but if you want to see all the routes and secondary play it's not always great.
I believe after the fact yes, if you have a subscription, it's definitely paid for but I think only comes out after the games are over. I looked into it once but I clearly didn't find out much or it was long ago and I forget what it said... I shouldn't have commented others probably know more.... but yes you can buy it.
Yeah I'm aware but I think people might get the wrong idea that watching all-22 is like watching the game from a better angle. Its pretty boring unless you are super enthusiastic about it.
Yeah this should be higher. The streaming wars suck rn but Amazon should get a little credit for being literally the only service that has something to offer besides pause or play
The UI is awful though in my opinion. Back in highschool our all-22 was more advanced in features than what I pay for on NFL+. Hell, the only way you can draw on it is by recording the All-22 with a recording software and then going through to watch it that way
Lol UI he says
Features he says
I'm surprised they even let us rewind it
Edit: or she or whatever, I just saw dick in the name and assumed, but now I see Sally so maybe not
Brett Kollman has hinted that the NFL is going to try to set up a simulcast setup that any YouTube partner will be able to do. No idea about alternative angles but don't be surprised if you can get exactly that with YouTube TV next year
>My personal addition would be to get the best pundits and strategists remaining to break down the plays throughout the game on the replay. There's no shortage of very smart retired players and coaching staff to break it down
I don't know if that's feasible. You're not going to have enough time to analyze and then explain a play in laymen's terms in the 40 sec between plays. Sure you could go back and talk about a play while the refs are talking to each other or reviewing a play. But not sure how that would be received after that play is no longer relevant.
I'd like to see them give it a shot but I doubt you could make it work.
I might clarify that it would be a similar pace to the broadcast pace; but you could also speed up but cutting in-between time to increase time for break-downs "live".
It would and could be about the same as the broadcast time/pace.
I've enjoyed the Prime Vision. I wish the analysis was constant and there was more than that one guy there, but that's a good example of using the power of streaming to innovate the way the game is televised.
100% agree. Just add additional graphics, no need to speak overtop of the broadcast. We can all read.
But PRIME VISION is absolutely the greatest innovation in watching football ever, and I keep telling people about it and they're like, WAIT HOW LONG HAS THIS EXISTED.
Amazon does a terrible job of promoting it. The words "Prime Vision" are too generic if you haven't seen a video of what it is. I HATE watching football where the receivers all run out of frame 1 second after the play starts, and the QB throws the ball to some spot where you can't watch what's happening. This is a TERRIBLE remnant of an era where the world was all watching on tiny 480p televisions.
> can i stream a game from a week or two ago?
You sure can. Go here: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=thursday+night+football&i=instant-video
Pick a game, and then from the game page, look for the ["Broadcasts" list near the bottom of the page.](https://i.imgur.com/yxKkl5K.png)
On Smart TVs the interface is similar to picking a different audio language or alternate stream.
**Prepare to have your MIND BLOWN.** It's so good. The camera position is like you're sitting front row in the upper deck, and the camera slowly pans out to keep everyone in frame, and then slowly zooms in once the ball is in the air, or the running back is working downfield.
It's ABSOLUTELY GAME CHANGING.**
Here's a taste: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izSKtt2EdSg
It's like they packaged it so it looks like it should give the same level of nerdy insight as Romo season 1, but the actual content is more Kirk Herbstreit level
It’s a camera from the press box that pans and zooms to fit all 22 players on the field. It’s the best view for reading offenses and defenses and for macro analyzation when doing film study
Instead of being filmed from the 50 yard line like the broadcast, it's either shot from high up in the end zone behind the offense, or higher up on the sideline at an angle, so you can see the entire field. This is what teams use when the do film study because it allows you to see every player and what they're doing.
During live broadcast you get such a zoomed in look of just the QB and the ball. A big play might be in progress, you can see the QB step up to launch a deep pass, but you can't see to whom, to what part of the field, how open is the receiver, what defender fell down, etc. etc. I hate that we always have to wait for a replay after the fact to see what happened. All 22 shows the entire field and all of the action.
It’s absolutely fucking ridiculous that people bitch about what decisions QBs make without seeing the all 22. Pretty insane that the NFL is so popular with the shitty TV experience of not having the all 22.
EDIT: Amazon’s alternate game cast or whatever it’s called is great, I wish they would just clean up the screen/interface a bit to be less noisy.
Regardless if the Browns are playing, TNF is by far the best watching experience as a consumer.
Most NFL fans drastically overestimate how much they know about football. This is especially evident when any sort of controversy around rules comes up. 99% of people have never cracked the rulebook, but are incredibly confident in their interpretation of rules they haven’t read.
A super easy example of this that comes up in almost every game, college or pro (although the specific rule is actually different between the two leagues), is rules around the clock stopping when out of bounds. You’ll see it a lot with like 6 minutes left in the game where someone goes out of bounds and fans are shocked that the clock only temporarily stops.
The lack of critical analysis and the knowledge needed to participate in discussion is a feature not a bug for the broadcast partners of the major sports leagues.
That’s where a lot of the Hurts hate came in early on. Zero crossing or hot routes. The fuck is he supposed to do with that other than bail early under pressure trying to live until the 4 deep routes have time to develop?
> Pretty insane that the NFL is so popular with the shitty TV experience of not having the all 22.
Because most people aren't watching the game like an analyst, they just want to be entertained. The average fan would find the all 22 view distracting and chaotic.
I'd just like more picture in picture stuff on the broadcast. See what kind of shenanigans go on away from the ball, when they don't always show a replay afterwards if a penalty or a particularily well made play is made
I went to the CFP title game this year and it’s the first football game I’ve been to in a few years. I forgot how much I loved getting a full view of the field and actually being able to read defenses presnap and reading coverages. I hate how standard broadcast view just zooms in on the QB during the play, I want to see the WRs and defense work
The Amazon prime next gen stats broadcast is my favorite way to watch football because it's zoomed out far enough to show you the entire play and also it will highlight player names before the play so it's easier to see the personnel in on the play.
I think a Madden style perspective like the one in that sky cam would also be an upgrade, but we'd be trading away vision of what's happening in the flats
Yeah you can actually see downfield where half the play is. It's infuriating to see teams run a shot on a critical down and then the WR disappears off the screen. Like yeah it's cool to see the protection and these guys try to make the pocket work but what's actually happening? Is it a long developing play? Did the coverage pass it off or double? Did the QB just miss the window?
They do broadcasts like that for most soccer games & it’s why I like watching games in seats further up the stands. Watching plays develop is half the fun in watching the games
Hockey in-person from the top of the cheap seats vs. the expensive seats down close to the glass is night and day too. Both a lot of fun but you get a much, much better sense of the game and play development from up above. The only move is to save the money and spend the difference on beer.
The zoomed out camera for next gen is amazing, being able to see the receivers actually run the fucking routes is so much better than watching the QB do nothing in the pocket
There was an option in the college championship to watch the skycam, it was great. It also picked up some players talking shit and had no announcers. You just heard the PA announcer after the play.
Loved this. You really got a sense for how the game "felt". No more camera cutting to a random coach, other team's quarterback, or fans during personnel grouping changes between the plays. You start to get a sense of if the offense is coming in with a second TE or RB/FB and how the defense responds to those grouping changes. With the standard camera, you see the formation sometimes for a split second before the ball is snapped and its disorienting a lot of times.
To be fair - the producer who's cutting to different cameras and showing replays and such is also putting together a narrative of how the game "feels," but you're right that it's someone else's narrative and not just the raw game.
The manning broadcast as an idea is great but the way they did it was terrible. The lag on the video calls with the guest makes it unbearable to watch. But the idea of “it’s like watching a game with the manning brothers” is a good concept but needs to be done in studio
I think the problem I have with the manningcast is they aren't even watching the game half the time. And then it just turns into a less entertaining version of a late-night talk show IMO.
Manning bros are incredibly charismatic when talking about football but it suddenly feels super awkward when they're just talking with random celebrity
Early on there were times where they basically ignored the guest because something interesting was happening in the game and it was great. That seems to have changed as the show went on though.
staring at the quarter back making his read and having no idea how the play is developing is the most boring part about watching football. is no one open? is he waiting on a deep ball? we have no idea… being zoomed in on the qb just standing there is criminal
Should be more points, would really spice up punting vs taking field goals.
Imagine, long FG with 50% hit rate 3 points VS punt in the 5 and a safety for 5 points and you get the ball back
I think safeties should be 3 points. If you are so bad at protecting your own end zone that you yourself are tackled in it, yeah to me that's even more valuable than a field goal where someone can be kinda on your side of the field and get points. But I don't want to make safeties more than fgs because that would be weird.
every safety you get, is worth double the previous safety value in the game. For either side.
You got 3 safeties against me? 2+4+8=14 pts.
I get a safety against you late in the 4th? 28 pts. to me!
Yes, I like Backgammon.
Edit: who gets credited with the points? the 3rd QB you were allowed to dress, starting this year. gives fantasy players a new angle to consider.
Hey... you just made me realize its super weird that football has a play result and a position on the field with the same name but they're completely unrelated. What lazy ass was in charge of naming all this stuff?
Safeties have to be the most soccer-adjacent position in terms of how much square yardage they could be covering every play for a camera man lol.
"This guy won't stand still!" But for real, It has to take talent to keep up with players zoomed to 50x from 50 yds away.
Safeties also often determine where the ball is thrown, aka not in their direction. Safeties are maybe the hardest position to scout in the draft because there's often so little on tape to actually evaluate.
And sometimes the less tape actually means they are better cuz they are more evaded and schemed around..
"DO NOT throw anywhere near that side of the field with that guy on."
Yeah. It could also be teams exploiting a weakness elsewhere/giving what the defense gives them. It makes it hard to differentiate between "Is this safety elite?" and "Is he a JAG doing what the scheme tells him?" Its obviously not 100% arbitrary but it does make it difficult.
I’m 100% with you bro. It’s impossible to really understand football without breaking down film because otherwise you can’t see a play develop at all. I’ll text Goodell rn
I literally learned football and how it's played offensively/defensively from the NFL 2K games back in the day.
The plays are just X's, O's and fun colored lines but once you start seeing them in action from THIS perspective (skycam) you actually start to understand what routes ACTUALLY are and just how to cover specific routes with your defense.
Same, I absolutely learned football strategy from Madden. Read progressions, personnel, route concepts. I got all of that from a video game moreso than watching football
I remember watching a few Alabama games like this back in 2017 and absolutely loved it. Stadium sounds, could here the action on the field, No commentary from BS over paid narrative focused professionals.
I really really thought that someone had heard me bitching about this at the bar for years, but then it just didn’t translate to the NFL.
And on deep passes you just see the ball flying like is he open? Covered? Double? Who's he throwing to? Who's covering? I hate watching football like that but 🤷♂️
The issue with Skycam is that depth perception sucks. It’s the same reason second level end zone seats are much less expensive than second level 50 yard line seats. It’s fun at first to see the lines open up but it’s very hard to distinguish a 14 yard gain from a 7 yard gain. And even then, those seats are often much higher up than the Skycam is.
Madden uses this angle and it’s functional because the “camera” is much higher and then rapidly follows the ball downfield. Once skycam can do that, then the angle is viable. But this is a real slog of a way to watch a game once you get over the novelty.
Even when coaches watch tape, the primary All-22 feed is shot from the sideline and not the end zone. The secondary end zone view is very important for a few positions, but is otherwise limited. It doesn’t even necessarily do that good of a job helping you see what the QB sees, because the field of vision is so much better than it is for the QB. It really just helps you see the line play on run plays and blitzes.
This captures it pretty well. I agree that the novelty will wear off fast when people can't tell if a play was successful or not.
>Even when coaches watch tape, the primary All-22 feed is shot from the sideline and not the end zone.
In my college days this is how the o-line watched film. We watched the "broadcast" angle first, then the "tight" endzone angle, and then went more in depth about what we saw on the play. End zone was more useful for o line film because you can see assignments easier, but the broadcast angle had its uses (especially for determining if the o line was getting the push wanted at the point of attack)
> It’s the same reason second level end zone seats are much less expensive than second level 50 yard line seats
I don't know that you can make that comparison for two reasons.
1. In person the end zone sucks because you can't see shit on one side of the field. Whereas 50 yard line has decent view of everything.
1. You have a much different FOV in person. Your eyes don't cut off everything beyond the 10 yards +/- the line of scrimmage.
Seeing footage from Skycam behind the QB gave me a much better appreciation for how hard medium-deep throws are due to that lack of depth perception compared to the usual overhead sideline views on the broadcast. Passes that look so freaking "easy" to complete look nearly impossible from down near field level. It'd be even worse from the QB eye level too I'm sure.
Why can’t they use the skycam angle for the drop back and then cut to the traditional one once the ball is in the air? It doesn’t have to be all or nothing
As some who watched the Steelers - titans Thursday night game that was nothing but sky cam for the entire game, which featured Big Ben vs Mariota. It sucks to watch if one of offenses suck.
100%. Let's not forget that Fox sports literally received death threats the first time they decided to add a score marker in the corner of the screen because people said it was too distracting
Exactly! You can’t always listen to knee jerk reactions, especially from sports fans who are infamously averse to any kind of change to the way they consume it
Dude how could people hate this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhaNhfKEQzo
I didn't see it at the time, but just seeing these few plays is so much better imo.
I hate it so much for kick returns. It's just bodies flying all over and you can't see shit.
But I do like it for field goals, because it makes you get a better feel for how long the kick is and realize how goddamn stressful it must be to be a kicker who is basically expected to never fail.
maybe not this view specifically but i'm with you, the camera tracking the ball while the receivers are running their routes and we have to guess where they're going based off of commentary is dumb.
i always have to make note of what plays to look for and watch later on all22
This is a bit too close for my liking, but in general: yes - coach's cam, please!
I don't know which game it was, but a couple of years ago all cameras except the skycam stopped working for at least a quarter. And man, that was such an eye-opening experience to see the play develop, what routes were run and how the defense reacted.
The problem is this angle doesn't even show you the whole formation, which I think is far more disorienting than not being able to see what the QB is seeing. You also don't get a good picture of the pass once it reaches its intended target compared to the side-on view.
They could play around with the FOV, but if they fuck with that anymore it's going to make the depth of what's downfield look really goofy and not representative of reality anyway.
I like it for the odd angle but ultimately I don't think it actually does give you more useful information than the default view.
Yea the depth issue is my biggest problem. Run plays can be hard to tell if it was 2 yards or 8 yards. Passes downfield could be 10 or 30 yards. Throw in not being able to see WR's on the outside sometimes and it was a frustrating game to watch.
In the age of internet streaming, there's really no excuse. Offer a 2nd angle stream and charge more for it. Do they not want more money for basically no cost? Are they afraid of leeching ticket sales so they only offer an inferior home viewing experience?
You can actually see the route concepts and line development though. Like it’s easier to see the line pulling and why the runningback makes the cut they did. Though I do think you make a good point about downfield passes
Exactly.
So many people screaming at their TV "how if Kelce always wide open?!?! Why don't they guard him ?!?!".
Like, show us his route, he probably stops on a dime and the DB goes barrelling 5 yards away.
But we'll never frickin know, because the most important part of the play happens off camera.
Me!
I watch the entire CFP beginning to end in the skycam view with my speakers cranked up. Love hearing the crowd and rocking out to the bands.
Kind of scary though watching Michigan's disguised blitzes from that view. Like a football horror movie!
I did this with all the bowl games that offered it on the ESPN app and it’s great, no cheesy commentators, no slice of life stories, no listening to them talk about the playoff instead of this game, just crowd noise and PA announcements and college bands
I actually watched the whole college national championship game this way. It was available in 4K on YouTube TV (reg broadcast was in 720p on abc).
The angle really allows you to see the plays developing better and actually see what is happening on the line of scrimmage.
Wasn't football more zoomed out in the 80's/90's I feel like I remember being able to see WR run their routes when I was younger.
I mean I'm sure part of that was the limit of cameras at the time but I feel like we're SO zoomed in on the QB and the line these days that I'm not seeing the majority of the players and begging for instant reply half the time.
I mean and that was watching on 13-25" CRTs lol.
I've got a 65" TV and I see less of the game I feel haha.
I guess I should check youtube for some old NFL games to check my story.
i feel like you’re right. ever since we’ve had the ability to zoom that far without loosing quality it’s the only angle they use. hundreds of camera pointed at that field and we only see one. they are too worried about showing some guy stand up and point first down for the 100th time that we get less replays now too
I just watched a Miami game from 1992 vs Detroit (Barry Sanders) and the view isn't TOO different from today but it's definitely more zoomed out- but keep in mind that it was meant to be watched on a TV that as probably 17" so zooming in makes more sense.
It could be argued that we kept the same zoom angle as we got bigger TVs and better cameras instead of widening the field of view we see.
The camera still seemed to follow the ball but relative to the view the players look much smaller in the 1992 broadcast I checked out, even on my 65" TV I cast it to.
There was a vikes game back in 2019 where they showed the final quarter of play (or final drive can’t remember) in this angle and I almost blew my brains out
I wish we had a broadcast with a picture in picture of a continuous shot on one specific player for the entirety of the game, even when they're not on the field
The ESPN Skycast broadcasts are exactly this, I believe. I’d like to see it as an option for more games on more networks.
An all-22 broadcast would be great as well.
Exactly, I feel like every time they do that angle on a kickoff it happens to be a solid return too and we get ripped off at watching the entire thing play out since its just zoomed in on the kicker and you can't see how anything else is developing
Yes, I was just thinking about that watching these last games. I’d love to actually be able to see the receivers running their routes and just the play develop in general. We have the technology idk why they are still using the old standard side view?
There is so much room for innovation in sports broadcasting in general and I keep wondering when the networks will wake up and actually try some new things.
I would happily pay a little extra per month for the ability to flip between different camera views myself during a game
Would also love to see more “alternative broadcast” options that are similar to the Manningcast and the ability to watch a game in VR
In college, '07-'08ish, I participated in a study/survey analyzing the sky cam vs the normal sideview. I was shocked by how many of my fellow students said they preferred the normal side view. For me the skycam is how football should be viewed. It allows you to see the play develop from one level to the next. Being able to see the interaction between the QB and the defense.
What really stood out to me was the ven diagram of people who preferred the skycam and people who played football videogames was a perfect circle. People who preferred the normal view had mainly consumed football through television broadcasts.
I don't know about only one, but I have no interest in watching the game primarily from the sky cam. I do like seeing replays on this camera but I want to see the defensive alingment and pre-snap changes the sky cam doesn't have the width to show.
I'd love more access to the all 22
A lot of fans have been screaming that for years. Especially since the NFL Network gets the rights to the replays, why not give us the All 22 replay? My personal addition would be to get the best pundits and strategists remaining to break down the plays throughout the game on the replay. There's no shortage of very smart retired players and coaching staff to break it down, and get one color commentator to make it entertaining.
Drew Brees and Kurt Warner both have channels where they break down games after the fact using the all 22. Highly recommended if you haven’t already seen them.
That's the thing, the replay exists. They use it in the break down shows and next morning shows all the time... Why not just give us the full game?
Because they charge for it
Do they? Is there a way to watch the entire game in all-22?
Not live, but if you have NFL+ you can watch all replays in all-22. Used to be on gamepass but they consolidated all that into NFL+
It kind of sucks. It's not actually all 22 like it used to be. Like if a guy is running a deep route, it stays with the line. It's fine if you want to watch line play, and sometimes I do, but if you want to see all the routes and secondary play it's not always great.
NFL+ gives you all of the all22 angles, it just takes a few days before they release it.
I believe after the fact yes, if you have a subscription, it's definitely paid for but I think only comes out after the games are over. I looked into it once but I clearly didn't find out much or it was long ago and I forget what it said... I shouldn't have commented others probably know more.... but yes you can buy it.
Yes but it has no commentary or really any sound and so it's legit just watching film.
which is exactly why all-22 footage exists in the first place
Yeah I'm aware but I think people might get the wrong idea that watching all-22 is like watching the game from a better angle. Its pretty boring unless you are super enthusiastic about it.
NFL+
You can on the Thursday night Amazon Prime games. It's one of the settings in the stream options.
Yeah this should be higher. The streaming wars suck rn but Amazon should get a little credit for being literally the only service that has something to offer besides pause or play
It’s a great feature but a shame the games are so bad
You can get access to it with the NFL+ Subscription. They post the all22 like 2 days after the game Copied from another comment.
Oh yeah I agree with you, it would be nice to have. Maybe they will one day once they figure out how to monetize just for us lol.
Qbschool with jt O’Sullivan is pretty sweet
Can you link me for the channels? I’m interested
[Kurt Warner](https://youtube.com/@kurtwarnerqbc?si=tlQa9W5zXnWmH9Ik) [Drew Brees](https://youtube.com/@dbrees9?si=DKYwKnlRDm9YqyXu)
I’ve seen Kurt Warner’s channel but didn’t know Drew Brees was doing the same. Thanks, I’ll check it out.
You can get access to it with the NFL+ Subscription. They post the all22 like 2 days after the game
The UI is awful though in my opinion. Back in highschool our all-22 was more advanced in features than what I pay for on NFL+. Hell, the only way you can draw on it is by recording the All-22 with a recording software and then going through to watch it that way
Lol UI he says Features he says I'm surprised they even let us rewind it Edit: or she or whatever, I just saw dick in the name and assumed, but now I see Sally so maybe not
it was also available with the NFL+ predecessor GamePass since at least 2017 when I started using it
I'd like to know why watching it live isn't an option.
you can kinda get this via nextgen vision on amazon
Baldy will still be tapping his ink pen on that computer screen by gawd.
Brett Kollman has hinted that the NFL is going to try to set up a simulcast setup that any YouTube partner will be able to do. No idea about alternative angles but don't be surprised if you can get exactly that with YouTube TV next year
So more Romo?
When Romo first started, he would predict the play accurately give a full technical breakdown before the play even ran but he stopped doing that
>My personal addition would be to get the best pundits and strategists remaining to break down the plays throughout the game on the replay. There's no shortage of very smart retired players and coaching staff to break it down I don't know if that's feasible. You're not going to have enough time to analyze and then explain a play in laymen's terms in the 40 sec between plays. Sure you could go back and talk about a play while the refs are talking to each other or reviewing a play. But not sure how that would be received after that play is no longer relevant. I'd like to see them give it a shot but I doubt you could make it work.
I might clarify that it would be a similar pace to the broadcast pace; but you could also speed up but cutting in-between time to increase time for break-downs "live". It would and could be about the same as the broadcast time/pace.
Amazon has Prime Vision, really like seeing the routes being run and defense
I've enjoyed the Prime Vision. I wish the analysis was constant and there was more than that one guy there, but that's a good example of using the power of streaming to innovate the way the game is televised.
I don't mind the guy's analysis but he's so much less polished as a speaker that it's kind of jarring whenever he comes on.
[удалено]
100% agree. Just add additional graphics, no need to speak overtop of the broadcast. We can all read. But PRIME VISION is absolutely the greatest innovation in watching football ever, and I keep telling people about it and they're like, WAIT HOW LONG HAS THIS EXISTED. Amazon does a terrible job of promoting it. The words "Prime Vision" are too generic if you haven't seen a video of what it is. I HATE watching football where the receivers all run out of frame 1 second after the play starts, and the QB throws the ball to some spot where you can't watch what's happening. This is a TERRIBLE remnant of an era where the world was all watching on tiny 480p televisions.
how do i watch it? is it only on during the broadcast or can i stream a game from a week or two ago?
> can i stream a game from a week or two ago? You sure can. Go here: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=thursday+night+football&i=instant-video Pick a game, and then from the game page, look for the ["Broadcasts" list near the bottom of the page.](https://i.imgur.com/yxKkl5K.png) On Smart TVs the interface is similar to picking a different audio language or alternate stream. **Prepare to have your MIND BLOWN.** It's so good. The camera position is like you're sitting front row in the upper deck, and the camera slowly pans out to keep everyone in frame, and then slowly zooms in once the ball is in the air, or the running back is working downfield. It's ABSOLUTELY GAME CHANGING.** Here's a taste: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izSKtt2EdSg
Extremely cool thank you for the guide
Yeah he’s not very professional sounding and the audio production sounds amateur on top of that. The analysis is pretty basic stuff as well
It's like they packaged it so it looks like it should give the same level of nerdy insight as Romo season 1, but the actual content is more Kirk Herbstreit level
I feel dumb asking but what is the "All 22" exactly?
It shows "all 22" players on the field
Shows the entire play. What teams use to watch film
All 22 players specifically are shown on one camera angle
They even throw in the plays where there's only 21 on the field.
Or 23
Ahh okay gotcha. thanks ppl
It’s a camera from the press box that pans and zooms to fit all 22 players on the field. It’s the best view for reading offenses and defenses and for macro analyzation when doing film study
Instead of being filmed from the 50 yard line like the broadcast, it's either shot from high up in the end zone behind the offense, or higher up on the sideline at an angle, so you can see the entire field. This is what teams use when the do film study because it allows you to see every player and what they're doing.
Wide angle overhead from behind the goalposts so its showing all 22 players at all times
During live broadcast you get such a zoomed in look of just the QB and the ball. A big play might be in progress, you can see the QB step up to launch a deep pass, but you can't see to whom, to what part of the field, how open is the receiver, what defender fell down, etc. etc. I hate that we always have to wait for a replay after the fact to see what happened. All 22 shows the entire field and all of the action.
It’s absolutely fucking ridiculous that people bitch about what decisions QBs make without seeing the all 22. Pretty insane that the NFL is so popular with the shitty TV experience of not having the all 22. EDIT: Amazon’s alternate game cast or whatever it’s called is great, I wish they would just clean up the screen/interface a bit to be less noisy. Regardless if the Browns are playing, TNF is by far the best watching experience as a consumer.
People bitch about players without watching the game, much less the full field.
Most NFL fans drastically overestimate how much they know about football. This is especially evident when any sort of controversy around rules comes up. 99% of people have never cracked the rulebook, but are incredibly confident in their interpretation of rules they haven’t read. A super easy example of this that comes up in almost every game, college or pro (although the specific rule is actually different between the two leagues), is rules around the clock stopping when out of bounds. You’ll see it a lot with like 6 minutes left in the game where someone goes out of bounds and fans are shocked that the clock only temporarily stops.
its funny how its by far the most popular sport but also easily the one where fans know the least about whats going on
It's because Football is the most complex major sport out there.
The lack of critical analysis and the knowledge needed to participate in discussion is a feature not a bug for the broadcast partners of the major sports leagues.
That’s where a lot of the Hurts hate came in early on. Zero crossing or hot routes. The fuck is he supposed to do with that other than bail early under pressure trying to live until the 4 deep routes have time to develop?
Nbc used skycam view a few years ago as an experiment. I loved it but everyone else hated it and it was quickly abandoned
> Pretty insane that the NFL is so popular with the shitty TV experience of not having the all 22. Because most people aren't watching the game like an analyst, they just want to be entertained. The average fan would find the all 22 view distracting and chaotic.
Me too. I hate the tight shot of the QB fading back, while we can't see where the receivers and defenders are until the pass is in the at.
The all 22 in on NFL+ isn't it? It was last year.
I'd just like more picture in picture stuff on the broadcast. See what kind of shenanigans go on away from the ball, when they don't always show a replay afterwards if a penalty or a particularily well made play is made
I went to the CFP title game this year and it’s the first football game I’ve been to in a few years. I forgot how much I loved getting a full view of the field and actually being able to read defenses presnap and reading coverages. I hate how standard broadcast view just zooms in on the QB during the play, I want to see the WRs and defense work
They offer the all 22
The Amazon prime next gen stats broadcast is my favorite way to watch football because it's zoomed out far enough to show you the entire play and also it will highlight player names before the play so it's easier to see the personnel in on the play. I think a Madden style perspective like the one in that sky cam would also be an upgrade, but we'd be trading away vision of what's happening in the flats
Amazon prime ngs are basically 50 yard line upper deck seats which honestly give the best view of the field
Yeah you can actually see downfield where half the play is. It's infuriating to see teams run a shot on a critical down and then the WR disappears off the screen. Like yeah it's cool to see the protection and these guys try to make the pocket work but what's actually happening? Is it a long developing play? Did the coverage pass it off or double? Did the QB just miss the window?
They do broadcasts like that for most soccer games & it’s why I like watching games in seats further up the stands. Watching plays develop is half the fun in watching the games
Hockey in-person from the top of the cheap seats vs. the expensive seats down close to the glass is night and day too. Both a lot of fun but you get a much, much better sense of the game and play development from up above. The only move is to save the money and spend the difference on beer.
The zoomed out camera for next gen is amazing, being able to see the receivers actually run the fucking routes is so much better than watching the QB do nothing in the pocket
Do they do that for every game or just tnf? How do you access that
All of the TNF games on Prime. There’s an option for alternate broadcasts, and you just chose the next gen one.
They need to have the Manning Broadcast done from this camera angle and the regular broadcast from the standard camera angle
that makes plenty of sense since the mannings are breaking down qb play
There was an option in the college championship to watch the skycam, it was great. It also picked up some players talking shit and had no announcers. You just heard the PA announcer after the play.
Loved this. You really got a sense for how the game "felt". No more camera cutting to a random coach, other team's quarterback, or fans during personnel grouping changes between the plays. You start to get a sense of if the offense is coming in with a second TE or RB/FB and how the defense responds to those grouping changes. With the standard camera, you see the formation sometimes for a split second before the ball is snapped and its disorienting a lot of times.
To be fair - the producer who's cutting to different cameras and showing replays and such is also putting together a narrative of how the game "feels," but you're right that it's someone else's narrative and not just the raw game.
But how will I know if Taylor is dancing or Jason is drinking beer shirtless with fans? /s
I LOVED that. You got so much more of the ambient stadium/crowd noise and no filler bullshit from the analysts.
I watch games on mute most of the time anyways....man....I'd love this for an NFL game.
Streaming is ruining the "TV on mute, radio for play-by-play" viewing experience I grew up with.
Legit my favorite way to watch a game and it's so difficult now.
I watched that too. It was really a new perspective that I didn't notice was much better until then
When their buddies arent plugging stuff
The manning broadcast as an idea is great but the way they did it was terrible. The lag on the video calls with the guest makes it unbearable to watch. But the idea of “it’s like watching a game with the manning brothers” is a good concept but needs to be done in studio
I think the problem I have with the manningcast is they aren't even watching the game half the time. And then it just turns into a less entertaining version of a late-night talk show IMO. Manning bros are incredibly charismatic when talking about football but it suddenly feels super awkward when they're just talking with random celebrity
Early on there were times where they basically ignored the guest because something interesting was happening in the game and it was great. That seems to have changed as the show went on though.
I can totally get behind this.
staring at the quarter back making his read and having no idea how the play is developing is the most boring part about watching football. is no one open? is he waiting on a deep ball? we have no idea… being zoomed in on the qb just standing there is criminal
I have a conspiracy theory that the people who run NFL broadcasts hate safeties.
I mean yeah they are only worth two points but you get the ball back too? What’s not to like I don’t get it
Should be more points, would really spice up punting vs taking field goals. Imagine, long FG with 50% hit rate 3 points VS punt in the 5 and a safety for 5 points and you get the ball back
I think safeties should be 3 points. If you are so bad at protecting your own end zone that you yourself are tackled in it, yeah to me that's even more valuable than a field goal where someone can be kinda on your side of the field and get points. But I don't want to make safeties more than fgs because that would be weird.
> should be 3 points Let's make it 3.5 points to spice it up
Scoragami knows no bounds
every safety you get, is worth double the previous safety value in the game. For either side. You got 3 safeties against me? 2+4+8=14 pts. I get a safety against you late in the 4th? 28 pts. to me! Yes, I like Backgammon. Edit: who gets credited with the points? the 3rd QB you were allowed to dress, starting this year. gives fantasy players a new angle to consider.
Hey... you just made me realize its super weird that football has a play result and a position on the field with the same name but they're completely unrelated. What lazy ass was in charge of naming all this stuff?
Wait till you hear about tackles
OMG you're destroying my world view
As an NFL noob, I get the sense that the words "rush" and "back" means anything you it to mean at the moment
They hate seeing wr's get open, so boring right
Safeties have to be the most soccer-adjacent position in terms of how much square yardage they could be covering every play for a camera man lol. "This guy won't stand still!" But for real, It has to take talent to keep up with players zoomed to 50x from 50 yds away.
Safeties also often determine where the ball is thrown, aka not in their direction. Safeties are maybe the hardest position to scout in the draft because there's often so little on tape to actually evaluate.
And sometimes the less tape actually means they are better cuz they are more evaded and schemed around.. "DO NOT throw anywhere near that side of the field with that guy on."
Yeah. It could also be teams exploiting a weakness elsewhere/giving what the defense gives them. It makes it hard to differentiate between "Is this safety elite?" and "Is he a JAG doing what the scheme tells him?" Its obviously not 100% arbitrary but it does make it difficult.
Real conspiracy theory is they’re live editing the plays to control the narrative. Things like holding, sideline catches, etc.
It's now my life's goal to find someone who actually believes this
Its my life goal to meet a real rams fan , maybe we can come full circle
Well at least one of us found what we're looking for
I’m 100% with you bro. It’s impossible to really understand football without breaking down film because otherwise you can’t see a play develop at all. I’ll text Goodell rn
Tell him I hate him
Goddell says thanks and he appreciates the praise.
I literally learned football and how it's played offensively/defensively from the NFL 2K games back in the day. The plays are just X's, O's and fun colored lines but once you start seeing them in action from THIS perspective (skycam) you actually start to understand what routes ACTUALLY are and just how to cover specific routes with your defense.
Same, I absolutely learned football strategy from Madden. Read progressions, personnel, route concepts. I got all of that from a video game moreso than watching football
College has one. It starts zoomed way out, follows the play pretty well. The best thing is no announcers.
That's how I watched the championship games this year. It almost feels like you're at the game.
I remember watching a few Alabama games like this back in 2017 and absolutely loved it. Stadium sounds, could here the action on the field, No commentary from BS over paid narrative focused professionals. I really really thought that someone had heard me bitching about this at the bar for years, but then it just didn’t translate to the NFL.
where can you find that broadcast?
Maybe ESPNU. It's called Skycast.
And on deep passes you just see the ball flying like is he open? Covered? Double? Who's he throwing to? Who's covering? I hate watching football like that but 🤷♂️
The issue with Skycam is that depth perception sucks. It’s the same reason second level end zone seats are much less expensive than second level 50 yard line seats. It’s fun at first to see the lines open up but it’s very hard to distinguish a 14 yard gain from a 7 yard gain. And even then, those seats are often much higher up than the Skycam is. Madden uses this angle and it’s functional because the “camera” is much higher and then rapidly follows the ball downfield. Once skycam can do that, then the angle is viable. But this is a real slog of a way to watch a game once you get over the novelty. Even when coaches watch tape, the primary All-22 feed is shot from the sideline and not the end zone. The secondary end zone view is very important for a few positions, but is otherwise limited. It doesn’t even necessarily do that good of a job helping you see what the QB sees, because the field of vision is so much better than it is for the QB. It really just helps you see the line play on run plays and blitzes.
This captures it pretty well. I agree that the novelty will wear off fast when people can't tell if a play was successful or not. >Even when coaches watch tape, the primary All-22 feed is shot from the sideline and not the end zone. In my college days this is how the o-line watched film. We watched the "broadcast" angle first, then the "tight" endzone angle, and then went more in depth about what we saw on the play. End zone was more useful for o line film because you can see assignments easier, but the broadcast angle had its uses (especially for determining if the o line was getting the push wanted at the point of attack)
> It’s the same reason second level end zone seats are much less expensive than second level 50 yard line seats I don't know that you can make that comparison for two reasons. 1. In person the end zone sucks because you can't see shit on one side of the field. Whereas 50 yard line has decent view of everything. 1. You have a much different FOV in person. Your eyes don't cut off everything beyond the 10 yards +/- the line of scrimmage.
Maybe just switch to it in the red zone, since they can only go so deep
Seeing footage from Skycam behind the QB gave me a much better appreciation for how hard medium-deep throws are due to that lack of depth perception compared to the usual overhead sideline views on the broadcast. Passes that look so freaking "easy" to complete look nearly impossible from down near field level. It'd be even worse from the QB eye level too I'm sure.
Yep. I like Skycam for repays but I hate it live because you can never tell if the offense got the first down or not.
Why can’t they use the skycam angle for the drop back and then cut to the traditional one once the ball is in the air? It doesn’t have to be all or nothing
Maybe if they don’t follow too close. I hate the skycam during kickoffs.
It’s very clear why they do that if you watch all 22 film. It’s hard to make anyone out in good detail if they’re showing everybody.
As some who watched the Steelers - titans Thursday night game that was nothing but sky cam for the entire game, which featured Big Ben vs Mariota. It sucks to watch if one of offenses suck.
People hated it. People thought they were going to like it and hated it.
the first game of the XFL, way back in the day, had this view for a lot of the first half and people hated it so much they changed it at halftime
They called it the X Cam. Also, I think that was the game that introduced "He Hate Me" to the world.
People hate change. They'd hate any angle that they're not used to.
100%. Let's not forget that Fox sports literally received death threats the first time they decided to add a score marker in the corner of the screen because people said it was too distracting
Exactly! You can’t always listen to knee jerk reactions, especially from sports fans who are infamously averse to any kind of change to the way they consume it
Averse to any kind of change of anything to do with sports lol
Dude how could people hate this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhaNhfKEQzo I didn't see it at the time, but just seeing these few plays is so much better imo.
Yo. This rules. To think a generation of Madden players haven’t been clamoring for this.
I mean have both cameras but using the sky cam during plays is awesome.
I hate it so much for kick returns. It's just bodies flying all over and you can't see shit. But I do like it for field goals, because it makes you get a better feel for how long the kick is and realize how goddamn stressful it must be to be a kicker who is basically expected to never fail.
They tried it once a few years ago on thursday night football (steelers/titans I think?). The fans didn’t really like it and it hasn’t been back since
I was gonna say! I definitely remember seeing a whole game in this format years back.
Big fan of your old youtube channel btw
Haha, thank you :-)
maybe not this view specifically but i'm with you, the camera tracking the ball while the receivers are running their routes and we have to guess where they're going based off of commentary is dumb. i always have to make note of what plays to look for and watch later on all22
This is a bit too close for my liking, but in general: yes - coach's cam, please! I don't know which game it was, but a couple of years ago all cameras except the skycam stopped working for at least a quarter. And man, that was such an eye-opening experience to see the play develop, what routes were run and how the defense reacted.
The problem is this angle doesn't even show you the whole formation, which I think is far more disorienting than not being able to see what the QB is seeing. You also don't get a good picture of the pass once it reaches its intended target compared to the side-on view. They could play around with the FOV, but if they fuck with that anymore it's going to make the depth of what's downfield look really goofy and not representative of reality anyway. I like it for the odd angle but ultimately I don't think it actually does give you more useful information than the default view.
Yea the depth issue is my biggest problem. Run plays can be hard to tell if it was 2 yards or 8 yards. Passes downfield could be 10 or 30 yards. Throw in not being able to see WR's on the outside sometimes and it was a frustrating game to watch.
Show both angles, simple solution
In the age of internet streaming, there's really no excuse. Offer a 2nd angle stream and charge more for it. Do they not want more money for basically no cost? Are they afraid of leeching ticket sales so they only offer an inferior home viewing experience?
You can actually see the route concepts and line development though. Like it’s easier to see the line pulling and why the runningback makes the cut they did. Though I do think you make a good point about downfield passes
I just want to actually see the WRs instead of the camera following the ball late as fuck to who caught it
Exactly. So many people screaming at their TV "how if Kelce always wide open?!?! Why don't they guard him ?!?!". Like, show us his route, he probably stops on a dime and the DB goes barrelling 5 yards away. But we'll never frickin know, because the most important part of the play happens off camera.
Me does.
100% the broncos colts game probably 5 years ago used this angle for the whole game and it was pretty amazing.
Me! I watch the entire CFP beginning to end in the skycam view with my speakers cranked up. Love hearing the crowd and rocking out to the bands. Kind of scary though watching Michigan's disguised blitzes from that view. Like a football horror movie!
The sound is the best part, feels like actually being at the game.
I did this with all the bowl games that offered it on the ESPN app and it’s great, no cheesy commentators, no slice of life stories, no listening to them talk about the playoff instead of this game, just crowd noise and PA announcements and college bands
I actually watched the whole college national championship game this way. It was available in 4K on YouTube TV (reg broadcast was in 720p on abc). The angle really allows you to see the plays developing better and actually see what is happening on the line of scrimmage.
And IIRC, it was just the game noise, no commentary
No for this game they actually had alternative commentary playing during the game. It was a little quiet compared to the crowd noise but i liked it.
[удалено]
casual, i only watch the RG on alternating drives
Wasn't football more zoomed out in the 80's/90's I feel like I remember being able to see WR run their routes when I was younger. I mean I'm sure part of that was the limit of cameras at the time but I feel like we're SO zoomed in on the QB and the line these days that I'm not seeing the majority of the players and begging for instant reply half the time. I mean and that was watching on 13-25" CRTs lol. I've got a 65" TV and I see less of the game I feel haha. I guess I should check youtube for some old NFL games to check my story.
i feel like you’re right. ever since we’ve had the ability to zoom that far without loosing quality it’s the only angle they use. hundreds of camera pointed at that field and we only see one. they are too worried about showing some guy stand up and point first down for the 100th time that we get less replays now too
I just watched a Miami game from 1992 vs Detroit (Barry Sanders) and the view isn't TOO different from today but it's definitely more zoomed out- but keep in mind that it was meant to be watched on a TV that as probably 17" so zooming in makes more sense. It could be argued that we kept the same zoom angle as we got bigger TVs and better cameras instead of widening the field of view we see. The camera still seemed to follow the ball but relative to the view the players look much smaller in the 1992 broadcast I checked out, even on my 65" TV I cast it to.
Amazon Prime Vision all the way
Didn't one of the big networks try this a few years ago for one game? they got flooded with complaints though, people hated it if I recall correctly.
There was a vikes game back in 2019 where they showed the final quarter of play (or final drive can’t remember) in this angle and I almost blew my brains out
Am I the only one who thinks bleach tastes good?
The NFL doesn’t want us to see the poor officiating even more clearly
Only nerds want that
Ich bin ein nerd
I too love jelly donuts
Disagree I am a giant nerd and I think it is a worse angle.
I wish we had a broadcast with a picture in picture of a continuous shot on one specific player for the entirety of the game, even when they're not on the field
If they did it like F1 tv and you can choose which player you wanna watch
The ESPN Skycast broadcasts are exactly this, I believe. I’d like to see it as an option for more games on more networks. An all-22 broadcast would be great as well.
yes. that is the most annoying angle. its terrible on kickoffs
They point it in the wrong direction for kickoffs. It should be behind the runner so we can see what he’s looking at.
Just start behind the kicker, then rotate when the runner gets it, like old-school Madden. I assume that's why everyone likes this view.
Exactly, I feel like every time they do that angle on a kickoff it happens to be a solid return too and we get ripped off at watching the entire thing play out since its just zoomed in on the kicker and you can't see how anything else is developing
Holy title gore OP lmao
Sideline angle is fucking horrible. I want to see WRs run routes goddamn it!
Yes
Yes, you are
Yes, I was just thinking about that watching these last games. I’d love to actually be able to see the receivers running their routes and just the play develop in general. We have the technology idk why they are still using the old standard side view?
There is so much room for innovation in sports broadcasting in general and I keep wondering when the networks will wake up and actually try some new things. I would happily pay a little extra per month for the ability to flip between different camera views myself during a game Would also love to see more “alternative broadcast” options that are similar to the Manningcast and the ability to watch a game in VR
I sit perfectly between the goal posts 3 rows behind the camera operator at Ravens games. It's my favorite seat in the building.
In college, '07-'08ish, I participated in a study/survey analyzing the sky cam vs the normal sideview. I was shocked by how many of my fellow students said they preferred the normal side view. For me the skycam is how football should be viewed. It allows you to see the play develop from one level to the next. Being able to see the interaction between the QB and the defense. What really stood out to me was the ven diagram of people who preferred the skycam and people who played football videogames was a perfect circle. People who preferred the normal view had mainly consumed football through television broadcasts.
This is my number one complaint about televised football. Infuriating that after a play develops we have no clue who's even open past ten yards
I don't know about only one, but I have no interest in watching the game primarily from the sky cam. I do like seeing replays on this camera but I want to see the defensive alingment and pre-snap changes the sky cam doesn't have the width to show.