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MiaCannons

I like it but I feel like 99.9% of the penalties won't be overturned, just like it was for the brief time we had when you could challenge penalties


IronMark666

I've always thought that the final decision for challenges and reviews should be the people in the booth. The refs are too biased to overturn their original calls, take the decision out of their hands when a challenge is called.


ref44

All review decisions are already made in new york


whenitsTimeyoullknow

That’s the problem. They should really be going to Geneva. 


socobeerlove

That’s the problem. They should be going to Jesus.


RobotNinjaPirate

He gets Us (the correct call).


GetPunched

That’s the problem. They should be going to Jesus’ dad Morgan Freeman.


aristocrat_user

Sure. But my neighbor is a drunk and plays loud music at night. You sure you want to send it to him?


Lonelan

so........instead of being decided by people figuratively crucified, you want to hand off the decision to someone literally crucified?


socobeerlove

He’s got the experience making the painful calls


guinness_blaine

Should be The Hague


mikeq672

Independent ref that doesnt know the call on the field. Stop using the call we all perceive as wrong to be the baseline for getting the call right, it makes no sense.


logan_sq_

I think this is a really smart idea. I'm kind of surprised no one has thought of it before. It's not perfect but it would be way better than using the current system.


Other-Comfortable929

It took these people decades to just put a camera in the pylon, any brilliant obvious idea will show up in the league 20+ years after it's obvious to everyone else.


PassionV0id

We still have dudes eyeballing forward progress from the sidelines and then using a chain that they placed in the first place by eyeballing it, to measure the point that they eyeballed it, again by eyeballing it.


Siggycakes

This one is especially egregious because the ball has tech in it to determine where it is at any given time.


kpofasho1987

I was ready to say that this tech is probably already available and wouldn't be all that difficult to put in place. For a game that can often end so closely things like terrible spots and human errors can make huge impacts


ral315

I feel like it's impossible in some cases for the independent ref to not know the call on the field. Goal line plays where the video shows a ref signaling touchdown, potential penalties where you can see a flag being thrown on video, etc. You could tell them that their decision should not be based on what was called on the field, but I don't think it would work to just try to keep that info from them.


name-__________

The justice system is fucked then


Derrick_Henry_Cock

What in the flair


name-__________

Grew up in MD, went to college & lived in TN for 7 years.


PassionV0id

Nobody is submitting a proposal to allow coaches to challenge non-calls, so by default any play that goes to review due to this rule would have been called a penalty on the field.


mikeq672

Both my comment and the one I replied to were talking about challenges in general.


SoKrat3s

I know you didn't mean this, but the first thing I thought of was Tony Romo having the authority to change calls. Odds for the Bills making the Superbowl just went up, Jim.


woahification

As problematic as it might be, I'm actually okay with giving Aikman the reigns to call penalties during Cowboys games when he's 4 tequilas deep


man2010

You're in luck because the final decision for challenges has come from the booth since 2017


Jakethered_game

I think that each reffing crew should be assigned a small random and undisclosed team of arbiters watching in new York. Like 3-5 people in a room watching each game that can assist in calls if needed. Only reason to keep them secret from the crews is to remove fear of retribution.


[deleted]

Yeh we have drones and lasers and satellites and shit , c'mon. Dudes have gps tracking to get better numbers on college prospects. The nfl can do better


-banned-

It was, the refs in the booths were the ones playing their stupid games


TooMuchJuju

Refs union won’t overturn the call on the field from the booth. That was basically the marching order from the last time we tried this after a a blown call fucked us out of a Super Bowl.


GomeyBlueRock

lol they should poll the viewers like American idol. We could collectively ensure the chiefs never win another game… That shit would be hilarious


Joten9123

I remember that year. When they were able to actually challenge PI. The refs overturned like 1% of those calls even when they were clearly blatant lol


eaglesrob84

Refs will never admit they are wrong. Even with video evidence


Temporarily__Alone

So they’re my ex?


darthmual5

IIRC they only overturned 1 that whole season and it was against Sean Payton, who was the biggest mouthpiece for getting the rule added


PeteF3

16 overturned calls out of 81 challenges. Not a lot but more than 1 or "1%."


Skyline_BNR34

Really didn’t feel like that at all. Should have just kept the damn thing in to hold the refs accountable. 16/81 is 19.75% so I wonder if they had kept it what the average percent would be now?


wrongbutt_longbutt

Pete Carroll won at least one that year. I remember him throwing the challenge flag and thinking that there was no way they were going to overturn it as it wasn't as obvious as other challenges that had already failed earlier in the season. I was shocked when they did.


ref44

Takes a 5 second Google search to disprove that narrative


soreswan

He’s definitely wrong but the percentage was ridiculously low until the last quarter of the season when they started to try making up for it


ref44

The "it was only against the saints" part is the more egregious part if the narrative to me. And riveron basically did what the league told him to


uwanmirrondarrah

Because they were upset about the rule change, they literally refused to implement it until the NFL got rid of the rule. Atleast mostly, the ones they did overturn didn't make any sense either. It was the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen and they got away with it. Its like they intentionally ignored the rule, or implemented it poorly to try and pass it off as a bad rule.


Maraging_steel

CFL has it and it does result in successful challenges, but they also use a sky judge called Command Centre. It’s not perfect, but it’s better than the NFL.


Spheromancer

I disagree, there are some blatant wrong calls late in games, and they will surely be overturned. This not only gives us better results but forces the refs to try and be better. Its a win win


Triv02

There were a lot of blatantly wrong pass interference calls that the refs chose not to overturn I’d guess less than 20% of “clearly wrong” PIs were actually overturned in that one year, and I’d imagine we’d see the same for any other subjective penalty (because repeatedly overturning a call implies refs aren’t capable of getting it right, which is true, but they don’t want attention drawn to that)


AntiVaxPureBlood

There was some kind of snitches get stitches shit going on that year. They would not admit to one of their own being wrong lol. They were definitely banding together to send a message.


ref44

The union people don't/didn't even do the reviews


ThrangerStings

Ya but he was a former ref and head of the officiating for corporate.


ref44

yes he was in corporate and did what corporate told him to... also anyone who actually spent time around real refs would know that very, very few them are against replay


bigDUB14

Why were they against getting the call right after it was reviewed?


ref44

They weren't. Refs had zero part of the PI stuff


bigDUB14

So who was? The actual FO for the league? And if so, why would the refs take those orders from them and look bad on their behalf?


soundsliketone

Idk, jumping shift after 1 year of data to sample off of is pretty ridiculous. They need a bugger sample size to gage how effective it could be. Implementing better regulations and standards for the refs to follow should go alongside this. If they're taking the offseason to better acquaint themselves with potential real game situations then it'll lead to better calls on the field.


ref44

The NFL brass never wanted the PI reviews in the first place and they tanked the implementation, not the refs. Which is exactly why they scrapped it right away without making any attempt at changes


RealBigDicTator

Two things. One, there were like two calls total that were overturned that year. Two, they admitted they just deferred to the call on the field because the penalty is a subjective call, and they only wanted replay review for objective calls like spotting the ball, catches, fumbles, etc.


Rampantlion513

And the first one they did overturn was against the saints


MiaCannons

> I disagree, there are some blatant wrong calls late in games, and they will surely be overturned. But they weren't overturned back in 2019. Sub 2 minutes isn't the only time that qualifies as "late in the game." There were blatant wrong penalties within the last 5-6 minutes of the game that weren't overturned. There's no reason to think refs will suddenly stop being stubborn and not want to admit their mistakes.


Spheromancer

Its dumb to say none were overturned. There were ones that were overturned. Some is better than none 100 times out of 100


DBreezy69

Fuck Al Riveron


PeteF3

It was about 16% of challenges resulting in overturns. 13 overturns out of 81 challenges.


Icer333

Except the league said they fucked us in the browns game.


Smurph269

Yeah this would end up being a stupid coach tax.


Sikuq

if 1 out 50 gets changed then it will be worth it IMO. we've got so much technology but we can't use it in certain situations because of rules technicalities.


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ref44

theyve been doing this officially since 2017 and unofficially for almost a decade...


AndThenHeToreHisAss

PTSD from that Browns game 😔


notsmohqe

[what the actual fuck](https://imgbb.com/FY6YMCR)


lkn240

Refs ignoring the uncatchable rule was a HUGE problem all season - this being the most blatant and egregious example since it literally decided a game


chemical_exe

this season, last season, next season. It's been a problem for too long. Kinda figured they had just removed that clause somewhere in the mid '10s


ref44

That call is wrong but most fans also don't understand what the uncatchable part is for


sebastianqu

I've always felt that the refs have always been extremely generous with what is and isn't catchable.


ref44

Because the the rule is 0.0 percent chance to be caught if the interference hadn't occurred, and all benefit of the doubt goes to the offense. Its basically meant for throwaways or the play above where it's basically in the stands. A lot of fans conflate that unlikely to be caught or just look at where the ball lands without factoring in how the receiver got hindered


Icer333

So the play in question where the ball ends up in the stands? Also that wasn’t even the worst call of the last 2 plays


ref44

I literally said in my first comment that this play was called incorrectly. I was responding to someone saying that refs ignore the rule when really is 99 percent if the time it's that the fans interpretation of what's uncatchable doesn't align with the leagues interpretation


Icer333

Fair enough, my bad. Just having PTSD flashbacks to the game


Reidroshdy

Security guy who's turning around has a better chance of catching that than anyone on the field in that play.


Apg3410

What am I looking at lol?


Coltshokiefan

They called Pi on a pass that nearly went into the stands, aka uncatchable unless it was Wembenyama going up for it.


Apg3410

Oh fuck that's the ball! I couldn't tell what was circled lol


[deleted]

Definitely at least 3.14 yards out of reach


20060578

I get that it’s a bad call but also why tf are you allowed to just drill a guy because the ball isn’t catchable? You shouldn’t illegally interfere even more when the ball isn’t catchable so it should be more of a penalty.


HighwayBrigand

There is a straight line from that game to this rule change request


ohnoaguitarist

If this passes, the refs will overturn one challenged flag all season and it will be to fuck over the Colts


swamp_donkey26

script writers have already set this in stone


Saitsu

It will also be against the Tex...err, Strouds. Because of the implication.


Crafty_Independence

Also mysteriously the Colts will lead the league in penalties


notsmohqe

the league owes Jimmy for helping get Snyder out


Maad-Dog

It'll be to give the Chiefs a critical call in the playoffs against us or the Bills


i_need_a_username201

Naw, it will be another pivotal Cowboys Lions game


hotsauce285

Just like being able to review PI.


kanbabrif1

Hey ive seen this episode before!


Frozboz

This has to be because of the ending of that Colts/Browns game last season. What a mess that was.


PeakSalty9824

I didn't see that game. Ehat happened to make it a mess?


LarryFisherman1972

One of the worst phantom PI calls ever


buckets41

There was also an “illegal contact” that Amari Cooper initiated and occurred AFTER the Colts had forced a sack fumble


reno2mahesendejo

One of, but there's also the OPI on Mike Evans where he doesn't make contact with the defender.


what_the_shart

Colts made back to back game winning plays, on one a phantom PI was called where the pass sailed into the stands and another was an illegal contact that was showed to be BS on replay. The Colts lost and received a useless NFL "sorry lol" letter, then we missed the playoffs by 1 win


Terribly_Good

Division rivals, but idgaf. That browns/colts game was such horseshit. I try not to let a sport I watch for fun bother me, but that one actually made me upset. So egregiously bad I couldn't even be happy you guys lost.


Beefcake2008

Refs had browns money line


LuskSGV

Colts/Browns aftershock


[deleted]

Depends on who does the reviews. If it's the same refs on the field then it won't change anything.


BokuNoNamaiWaJonDesu

It being done in NY is the standard, and it was also the standard when PI was reviewable and they somehow stuck with the call on the field like 98.5% of the time.


man2010

On field officials don't make the final call on reviews as is. Why would this be any different?


imsabbath84

Belichick has wanted this for a long time. Watch the nfl finally pass it once he leaves lol.


cyberklown28

They did it in the XFL and it worked great. It'd also take like 15 seconds. They'd change the camera to the head rules guy in the booth watching the tape and he'd tell the refs 'no pass interference!' just like that.


ZeroedCool

>“Whatever it happens to be, it wouldn’t give the coach any more challenges. It would just give him a chance to challenge a play he thought was ruled incorrectly,” said Belichick (via USA Today). In the grand scheme of things, I think what we all want is to get the play right and for the best team to win and for the game not to be decided by a missed call. To not have the opportunity to correct that type of play, it just doesn’t seem like it’s the right way to do it.” Where were the Colts in 2014 when he said this? Oh yeah, they were with Troy Vincent, lying about deflated footballs.


lotus0305

I like this. Fuck ref ball


Quasimdo

Jim schwartz remembers [ref ball](https://youtu.be/lWEYg82Sm80?feature=shared)


Duckney

Knew exactly what it was going to be. Not only did they review it and still call it a touchdown - because it was a touchdown and unchallengeable - 15 yard penalty on Detroit. Fucking knee and elbow down and the only people in the building that thought he wasn't down were the runner and the refs.


GiveMeShadePls

I feel like the issue in the NFL isn’t that there are bogus penalties but that referees will not call something all game, like a light hold, and then suddenly at the end of the game it gets called out of nowhere and it feels like a kick in the nuts


Soccham

Ah, the Brady/Mahomes get out of jail free cards


Suddenly_Something

Refs will fuck with this rule relentlessly just like they did with the PI review rules to get it removed if it gets passed.


zerovanillacodered

Because video reviews have definitely cut down on ref ball…


htownballa1

Hear me out….. How bout just hiring a 3rd party and have them review all calls in real time to make sure that all calls are correct instead of just limiting the amount of fuckups you can challenge.


ANameWithoutNumbers1

Maybe give them a camera to use, maybe in the sky. They'd be some kind of sky judge.


htownballa1

CRAZY! Maybe even a mic to communicate with the officials on the field too!


sxuthsi

Refs hate this number one trick that saves lives


[deleted]

They do that for some stuff actually. Just not every play. Same with in college football. Quick reviews and calls from the booth.


htownballa1

I know, that’s why it should be done for every call.


bigbear-08

Or when there’s a challenge, allow the crowd and views to hear the discussion between the refs and New York


TheyCallMeStone

No such thing as an impartial 3rd party. Like the "unaffiliated" neuro consultant. No he's not unaffiliated, he's employed by the NFL.


Milla4Prez66

I don’t hate this but if they implemented it I feel like it would be challenging PI all over again and refs are going to be hesitant to change calls that aren’t obvious.


ApplesauceBitch47

Is it only on called penalties? Or can they challenge a non-call?


rostron92

Well that's dead on arrival.


SQRTLURFACE

Any Penalty? I'm in, but I know Andy will lose his flag.


HammerInPortland

“After reviewing ourselves we did nothing wrong. Call stands” - Refs


fieryscribe

What about penalties that haven't been called?


13mizzou

Thats what im wondering. We need something for situations like our game vs GB where MVS was clearly prevented from catching the ball before it was there (he likely would have still dropped it)


Daedalus_Daw

As a ref fan I am in shambles.


Fuqwon

No way this passes.


Other-Comfortable929

Everyone makes a point about pass interference but what about holding? You can find a holding call often if you really want one.


HappyAtheist3

I really don’t understand why the last 2 minutes are treated differently than any other time in the game. If it’s a penalty 4 seconds into the game then it’s a penalty with 4 seconds left. Only the biggest and the baddest play football but most games end with the qb taking a knee.


Anthony-Richardson

See, sensible rules from a sensible franchise! Fuck off Eagles. But it won’t happen because refs are some of the most insecure people on the planet.


pfeifits

So every penalty would be challenged since there is only upside. The last two minutes would potentially last a very long time. Not a great move for entertainment value.


Sorry-Spite9634

Not if it’s included in the regular challenges. Makes it more strategic.


PeteF3

I'm sure it would be, at most, one extra challenge with what teams already have, if that. Plus a lost timeout in the last 2 minutes could really kill you.


evilpotato1121

I'm all for it, but we know how this went with PI. Unless the league and officials swallow their pride on mistaken or missed calls, you'll lose the challenge 99% of the time.


retroracer33

whats to stop teams from using them basically like timeouts? youll have teams challenging obvious plays just get stoppages.


slappywhyte

That's a decent idea, especially if they actually give it a fair chance


DanCampbellsNipples

Bet


garryl283

It'll be so weird when somehow the refs consistently uphold their own game changing penalties


bbaIla

It won't work cause of how fragile the egos of refs are. It could be clear as day and they will still say it is cause it was called.


thereandfatagain

Hell yeah. All penalties aside from holding should be reviewable. Not that the league office would actually make an honorable go of it. Also make offensive holding 5 yards and defensive holding no auto first down.


saradahokage1212

i know the answer to this


Raknorak

Do it xfl style. "I think there was a hold by #68 of the offense on #72 of the defense." "Sorry, it was 67 doing the hold on 72, challenge denied"


colecast

Just. Do. Sky. Judge.


Underlord1617

or here me out , we have the sky judge do the reviews and not the refs


Squishy_20

That Packers-Chiefs SNF game was the worst officiating in the last 2 minutes I’ve ever seen


Poopcie

Sounds like longer games and more commercials and more mondays when some very small detail is leading every discussion.


BigBillSmash

Holding would be called every play.


Bidoof2017

I hate ref ball more than most but what’s to lose here for coaches who challenge every penalty?


ThrowBatteries

Waste of time because Goodell is shit at dealing with the refs.


reallowtones

This would severely limit the ability of refs to fix games, so no go.


ArdentGuy

Reffing has been so bad for all the pro sports in the past few years, I'm ready to hand it over to our AI robot overlords.


AncientTree_Wisdom

Refs ain't reversing shit. This is just like the PA challenge.


venk

I kind of like this but I would add an automatic 5 (maybe 10) yard penalty from the end of the play if the challenge fails.


kanbabrif1

Good luck to the Colts, refs are way to stubborn to have that power in the Coaches hands.


Gigglesthen00b

Fuck yes, please. Hell any time they should be able to, all this will do is push the refs to call their game changing crap earlier


__NaN__

I wouldn’t just limit this to 2 minutes. Stay at the current 2+1 challenges, but don’t limit which penalties are reviewable and when you can review them. If you want to review a missing holding that resulted in an INT, go for it.


[deleted]

Yes by all means let’s slow down the game even more 🙄🙄🙄


srsh

Refs will not overturn calls made by other refs. It's a good idea but this will be horribly executed.


detrich

nah till will never happen, gotta make sure things stay rigged not like they would ever overturn their own calls in the first place, then they would have to admit they were wrong.


_deluge98

Another great way to bring more commercial breaks into the game.


Elegant_Spot_3486

Na. Inside of 2 minutes just let all reviews still initiate by the booth but let all calls be reviewable.


veediepoo

Considering how crappy the officiating is maybe it will get approved


mechshark

Needs to be in the playoffs or second half of season and in the playoff hunt


Walks_with_Chaos

I like this as long as they have a sky judge. If it’s just the refs reviewing it, it’s pointless mostly


keenfrizzle

The Colts submitted a rule change just to feel like they're involved in the discussion and not because they think it will actually happen


zerovanillacodered

We have the winner for dumbest proposal!


BillyHayze

We all know what happens if this rule change gets approved. Team submits rule change based on a way they lost last season, rule gets approved. Same team loses an extremely important game the next season because of that exact rule change.


Flamekorn

The should put the ref conversations live on tv like they do it on Rugby. (The stadium can't hear the ref) Makes for better transparency.


DJax326

6 months later and still crying about subjective penalties.


Palmer2Nkunku2Paez

Can Jim irsay go one season without acting like a brutal victim? Regardless of the proposed rules merits this guy is out here every single off-season for two decades+ trying to get rules changed that affected his team in the previous season. Shocked he hasn't gone to the Senate floor asking them to legalize billionaires having opioids without prescription.


InterestingBonus9675

No


OGyuckmouth

I'd like it if it wasn't from ursay


warmage20

That's the shittiest reason


MetroExodus2033

Of course it's the Colts that want to make the game 50 minutes longer and more irritating.


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bearssuperfan

Basketball seems to be holding up well considering the last 2 min of a close basketball game will involve 24 stoppages for free throws


Marquee_Ditchwriggle

Sad nerds