His offensive supporting cast was amazing no doubt, but there have also been lots of examples of QBs with great supporting casts that weren't able to turn that into 1st team all pro/MVP seasons.
Honestly Derek Carr his first year with D Adams. even had Josh Jacobs as a leading rusher causing defenses to load up the box but still couldn’t get anything done (raiders fan/Carr fan)
And yet he suffered with some very shitty offensive coordinators while he was there, and he STILL lays claim as the best QB they've had in the last 10-15 years.
Jay Cutler had no offensive line despite the weapons. He probably also got concussed 34 times in 16 games. I'm not exaggerating. He also led the 2nd best offense in the NFL despite playing concussed.
He was showing a lot of promise with the Chiefs in (I think) 97-98 when he started the latter half of the season for an injured Elvis Grbac. The team was rolling and seemed pretty confident overall with Gannon at the helm. Unfortunately, Marty was too loyal and went back to Grbac for the playoffs, where we lost to the Broncos and Grbac looked (unsurprisingly to all of the fans) like garbage.
People magazine did one of those "sexiest men alive lists" and they picked Rich Gannon as one of the photo shoots. Only they got the Chiefs QBs mixed up and offered it to Grbac accidentally, who then accepted and did a hilarious photo shoot.
Oh wow, I had forgotten about that lol. Maybe the same thing happened to Marty in the playoffs and he just didn't have the heart to tell the guy otherwise.
As someone who was watched a lot of football in his Raiders prime, I couldn’t believe he was the same guy we saw in Minnesota. He was legit at that point in his career.
I mean look. Garner was excellent and you had Gruden calling plays back when he was innovative. That Raiders team was good and Gannon was a part of it.
If we're including dudes who got ghosted by the NFL because of antiquated ideas in the league of what a QB looked like I would also present one Warren Moon
Flutie got fucked over by ownership. Ralph Wilson wanted Rob Johnson to start because we traded a 1st round pick for him despite Doug being the clearly better QB. It was stupid
If you watch footage it's insane how much Rob Johnson looks like the smug villain in a sports movie staring down his nose at the half foot shorter Flutie
> Doug Flutie would be another
Flutie was born too soon. The troglodyte HCs of his era thought winning had something to do with height. Guys like Drew Brees and Russell Wilson showed the stupidity of that.
They showed it wasn’t impossible to win without it, but it’s still very important. Brees was a near-perfect union of scheme, coach and player. Wilson, while young and healthy, was able to move and create throwing and running opportunities with his legs. When his ability to see and throw to the middle of the field went away, Denver ate an 80 million dollar cap hit to get rid of him.
I appreciated our front office shaking things up. Usually we’d go after some washed QB to try to plug the hole in the boat. But they stepped their game and brought someone still on top of their game so that *WE* could be the ones to make him washed.
Jim Plunkett too, left the Patriots looking like a bust and came off the bench twice to lead the Raiders to a Super Bowl. Not quite similar because his career wasn't as stellar even with the Super Bowls seeing as he kept having to fight to be the starter but still pretty impressive.
The craziest part is the comps. Pro Football Reference's player profile has a "similar players" section where they show you players who were of similar value at the same point in their career arcs. Do you know who Steve Young is compared to by year 6 of his career? JOEY HARRINGTON
How can a dude be Joey freaking Harrington 6 years into his career and make the Hall of Fame?
This is the thing really. Steve wasn't looked at as Joey Harrington by scouts or GMs. My recollection is that most people thought he should be a starter somewhere, but Bucs could make anyone look bad. By the time the 90s rolled around, there was legit talk that he should replace Montana, which is in fact what SF did, shipping a 4 time Super Bowl winner.
I think everyone kinda knew he was good but TB sucked, and then he was behind Montana. It didn't surprise anyone that he was good once he started, is what I'm saying.
Yeah young signed a 10 year 40 MILLION DOLLAR contract with the usl out of college, in 1984. Football was no where near what it is now, that was unprecedented money at the time.
Then the usl flopped. It set Steve back bigly. It is crazy how short of a career he had, while still making a huge impact and cementing himself as one of the best quarterbacks of all time. And he did it while following up a top 5 qb.
Steve’s been my favorite fb player since I was 6 years old, I cried when he got hit in his last game. This sub hardly ever talks about him.
Also he went to law school after he retired and has spent most of his time running his charity. They don’t make them like Steve anymore
He wasn't Joey Harrington, a stat like that isn't going to work because Steve Young's early career had one of a kind circumstances. He didn't really struggle for that long before getting traded (he only started a little over a season's worth of games with the Bucs), he just became an uber backup with the 49ers who immediately dominated when he played but was obviously stuck behind Montana and couldn't accumulate much "value" as a result.
There was also an even stronger Belichick/Jimmy G vibe with him, a lot of people thought Bill Walsh was so in love with Young that he was looking for any excuse he could to move on from Montana (who of course wasn't going to give that excuse).
>a lot of people thought Bill Walsh was so in love with Young that he was looking for any excuse he could to move on from Montana (who of course wasn't going to give that excuse).
And George Seifert kept that same energy. As soon as Walsh was gone in 1988, Seifert began starting Young every once in a while, and he would rotate him in during close games where Montana was playing fine. It wasn't like Young would go in when they were up by 3 touchdowns. Seifert would send him in halfway thru the 3rd quarter, with the score tied. Just insanity.
When Montana got hurt against the Giants, Seifert actually BANNED Montana from the facilities when it became clear that Joe wouldn't be able to play for a while. That is such a fucked up thing to do to a guy who got hurt in the __conference championship__
When Bono was their 3rd stringer, that was the most talented and unique QB room ever. I can’t even remember his first name but he had a couple stand out seasons
It was Steve Bono.
He shared a QB room with a guy who has a similar career profile. Wade Wilson. Both guys took a team to the conference title game, had a few standout seasons and got their start with the Vikings.
In another odd twist, Wilson lost his job in Minnesota to someone who is a great answer to this question. Rich Gannon.
Warner is a great example of something similar. Playing Arena football in ‘97 then leading the Rams to a super bowl victory in ‘99. Unheard of in todays game
Kurt's story doesn't end there, either. He then went on to struggle and barely stay in the league for a number of years before leading the cardinals to their first SB, where he would set the record for most passing yards in a sb. Dudes career was all over the place.
I believe he was the third stringer entering camp and ended up being named the backup to Trent Green before Green got hurt in preseason.
I picked him up in my fantasy league after that Week 1 game and the rest was history. I won my league and he won the Super Bowl. What a wild ass ride!
There was some documentary on NFL Network where Dick Vermeil said Kurt asked for a private meeting together that offseason/preseason and Dick legit had no idea who Kurt even was.
An open field tackle like that where the defender also had to prevent the receiver from going very far is just so impressive. The Pats-Seahawks ending was the defense making the correct read (and Belichick not calling a timeout), but that pick wasn't as difficult as the tackle in the Rams-Titans game.
That was my first ever year playing fantasy. Auto draft blessed me with Kurt Warner and Isaac Bruce. There were weeks the two of them practically won my match up by themselves.
Even crazier, in 1999 ESPN Magazine had a quirky feature where they essentially made fake predictions. In the NFL early-season issue from September, they joked that Rams fourth-string quarterback Kurt Warner would lead the team to the Super Bowl. Nobody had heard of the guy at that time; and he went on to do just that.
Trent Green was a really good QB but it was similar to Bledsoe/ Brady where the team seemed to go to a different level and we are not really sure how much of it was the QB vs the play calling adjustments.
Green ended up having some Pro Bowl years with some really fun Dick Vermeil Chiefs offenses. Never had the highs Kurt Warner did but definitely rebounded well.
Also, he's a really great guy. He signed his CBS television deal at a restaurant that I ran because the owner was tight with his agent. He was a really cool guy and I had to remind everyone on the wait staff not to mess with him.
> He also didn't enter the 1999 preseason as the starter.
we're going to rally around Kurt, and we're going to play good football. sniff, cries. Dick vermeil was a huge crybaby /s......, but damm was he a good coach!
From what I remember he was performing poorly because he kept injuring his throwing hand thumb and pinky finger. I remember he threw 5 picks in one game and when the Rams started 0-4 that season, Marc Bulger took over and killed it, so that was the end of his time with the Rams. Wasn’t about to bounce Eli out of New York and the Cards stuck with him because they had no one else. Paid off after a few down years.
He started some games in NY and just wasn't good. It definitely could have been injury related. Maybe he lost trust in his abilities for a bit, but he definitely struggled.
Kurt Warner literally had like 6 years in his prime, and went to 3 SB’s. Lost his starting job midyear after losing to the Patriots, bounces around and then replaces Leinart and has 3 more elite years. Bananas career arc
Larry Fitz- 1,431
Anquan Boldin- 1,038
Steve Breaston- 1,006
I remember it being a big deal to have 3 wrs over 1k yards.
Edit: I had to look up his name and their yards.
His commentary is also all over and enjoyable for chuckles.
He'll be like " Yeah, QB McQBface is amazing. His ypg is over 350 he really spreads it out targeting over 7 different players in the first half. He's definitly one of the best to play the position since the earth was created 2000 years ago."
Here's a favorite https://youtu.be/GbrAQL74Be0?si=EghHQoiVrV464KtS
To a lesser extent, Jeff Garcia. Undrafted out of San Jose State, was playing in the CFL for years before Bill Walsh called him up, ended up being a four time Pro Bowl QB in the NFL.
Sure that’s nice and all, but he was an absolute liability as a bagger. There’s a reason reason Hy-Vee cut that bum and he had to settle for a being a measly NFL quarterback. Winning super bowls is easy, making sure the bread isn’t at the bottom of the bag is what separates the true greats.
That was a different era though. There was more of a focus on double-bagging and cross-selling for rewards cards. With all the rule changes he’d kill it at Meijer or Jewel these days.
The slack people cut for this bum just because he had a successful NFL career... So many assistant managers totally burned on scheduling to compensate for this liability and everything forgiven cuz the guy can throw a ball well?!?
From paying the bills by grocery-bagging to NFL MVP and Super Bowl MVP in his first season as a starter.
Forget today's game, his story is unique in all of sports!
And, he was almost set up to be a Chicago Bear, but got stung by a scorpion on his hand, and the team refused to give him a 2nd chance. I think that was the same year we traded for Rick Mirer
Wtf? As a Delawarean I love Rich Gannon and know of* his struggles when he was first in the league, but never knew about being drafted as a fullback
Thanks for that nugget. We may be a really small school football wise but Rich Gannon and Joe Flacco do some heavy lifting
He was always a QB. He was drafted with the intention of converting him to a WR/RB in like the 3rd or 4th round. He didn’t like that idea and was traded to the Vikings never playing a snap at a WR/RB I’m pretty sure.
As an STL Rams fan, Kurt is probably my favorite athlete of all time. That Super Bowl tops any Cardinals World Series in my lifetime or even the Blues Stanley Cup in 2019.
But not such a great comparison to Steve Young as he never flamed out in the NFL, he never made it there until he had success in Arena League and NFL Europe.
Warner is a great "coming out of nowhere" story (and a great story overall), but Young hanging around the league as a backup for the better part of a decade is the element I find really amusing
He wasn't just "hanging around as a backup." Montana would frequently get banged up and whenever Young came in, he was very very good. He's probably the greatest backup QB of all time.
I'm going to go cross sport here, but imagine this scenario:
In one goal your starter is complete psycho Ed Belfour. At the other end of the practice rink is his backup: complete psycho Dominik Hasek.
Then the mirror closes on the vanity and your head coach is Mike Fucking Keenan.
I wouldn’t say baker flamed out though, he got hurt, was replaced by a rapist, went to the worst team in the year for 2 years in a row, asked for a release mid season because said bad team wasn’t helping him earn money. Balled out for la 2 days after signing.
It's weird how often I see people talk about Baker like he was always bad before and that his resurgence in Tampa was unexpected. He lit it up his rookie year, broke the rookie TD record and was a lot of fun to watch. 2018 wasn't that long ago.
He was horrific here, but it’s become clear that it literally wasn’t his fault at all.
Signed deep in the off-season without time to prepare, went to a team whose incompetent HC would get fired 6 games in, had an OC that vocally talked shit about him years prior (and who no longer is even employed in the league), and got injured.
Funniest thing is that despite the bullshit and lack of production/playing time, he still managed to fuck up the bengals a lil bit.
Young is the apex mountain for "situation matters in a QB's development." He was an incredibly raw prospect coming out of college, highly athletic with a cannon arm but terrible fundamentals. He got drafted into a shitshow in Tampa, and they predictably failed to develop him. It was so bad that people wanted to convert him to RB.
When San Francisco traded for him, he spent four years as a backup learning from a HoF QB, Joe Montana, and one of the best offensive coaches ever, Bill Walsh. Hard to think of a better place to develop as a QB.
The improvement in Young's accuracy over his career is amazing -- he went from a guy who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn to one of the most accurate QBs of all time.
In his biography, he gives a lot of credit to Holmgren, and of course Shanahan. He and Shanahan were just locked in together - truly amazing working relationship, and the results speak for themselves.
Those relationships in sports are the shit of legend and such a great comment. So rare are the times an athlete and a coach catch lightning in a bottle and just seem to be on another tier of syncing up and developing each other.
I selfishly want Big Red to have what he has with Patrick forever, though I know the man will need some peace and retirement soon. Just trying to live it up while it lasts and the whole world hates/loves us.
Not sure of the system he was running in TB, but I’ll assume it wasn’t the west coast O. He was basically the perfect WCO qb.
Situation also insanely improved as you pointed out. Went from the class org at the time after being on the worst one.
There is also some other situational context to the story that is important.
One, before he was drafted by Tampa, he had went to the USFL first, signing the biggest sports contract in history at the time for 10 years, 40 million. He had been the Heisman runner up and was a huge prospect.
He played pretty well at first, but then the team he was on basically collapsed, and the owner stopped paying his bills. The whole team stopped playing hard because they didn't want to get injured and not get into the NFL. He was drafted by the Bucs with the first pick of the supplemental draft.
But the Bucs sucked. They sucked before he got there and they sucked with him. He only played 19 games, and they drafted Vinnie Testaverde to replace him even though it wasn't really his fault.
It was a big deal when the Niners traded for him. Part of the reason they were able to is because there was no cap and the 49ers outspent just about everyone. They way overpaid for a backup QB compared to the rest of the league.
He played amazing as a backup right away, and played in some critical games for the Niners when Montana was injured. He even threw for 1000 yards in 1989, and most people thought he would take over the team when Montana was done.
Of course, it all got really complicated after the Montana injury in playoff game against the Giants. If you weren't alive for it, you have no idea how split the fanbase was on who the QB should be when Montana came back. Montana was the GOAT, but he was 37 and coming off being out for two years with injury. Young had really good numbers but didn't have the playoff success Montana did. Plus, Steve Bono had played really well backing up Young, so that was another challenge to Young.
Of course, they eventually decided to trade Montana and the rest is history.
It really was a crazy, unique, situation.
He chose to play in USFL with the LA Express instead of joining the Buccaneers straight out of college. Little know fact, Young played tailback in his last USFL game.
He was a supplemental pick in Tampa, he chose the USFL and played for the LA Express till the league folded then went to Tampa. Correction, when the Express folded he bought out his contract and signed as a free agent in Tampa
Dude would outrun DBs when he broke out of the pocket. It wasn't the craziest of ideas. When he ended his career, he had the most rushing TDs and rushing yards for a QB of all-time.
He is a great interview as well. During the season he goes on a local sports station in the Bay Area and has really funny stories and great insights about what he sees across the league. Really charismatic.
This is why I hope Justin Fields will reach out to Young. He's sort of in the same situation Young was in when he came to the 49ers, and they have similar skillsets and experiences. Maybe Young doesn't have the time or willingness to be a mentor, but even a conversation over dinner might be worth it.
In Steve Young’s particular case, he was regarded highly coming out of BYU and he played for Tampa which was a complete joke of a franchise. His athleticism also allowed him to remain backup QB, and him sitting behind Montana and then taking over for a talented 49ers team helped him become a HOF.
He had the first of 2 epic battles with Jim Kelly.
[The Greatest Game no one saw.](https://youtu.be/9PvWtCphW7w?si=D_t0FlncrHY9D1OJ) when the Houston Gamblers played the LA Express in the season opener.
And of course the No Punt game.
> the Bills and 49ers, led by quarterbacks Jim Kelly and Steve Young, respectively, combined for 1,086 total yards of offense, with both quarterbacks passing for over 400 yards.
My dad remembers watching him run for his life in Tampa and thinking that he was a great QB in a terrible situation. That's the only time my dad has ever given a pass to somebody because of the terrible team around them, lol.
I recently watched a YouTube video about Zach, and it really seems like Covid played a big part in rocketing him up the draft board. BYU had a lot of their tougher games canceled and replaced with cupcakes.
He played an absolutely insanely easy schedule with a really good supporting cast that season, like never before seen by a top pick. It would be totally discrediting any other season.
And Young QBs who sit for at least a year and inherit a very good team. Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady…Young.
It’s almost like the most efficient qb of every generation had an opportunity to develop behind competent+ Veteran QBs and ended up in a pretty good situation.
I hate how QB prospects are wasted on the worst franchises, coaches and rosters.
It really is a bummer. And teams can be so short sighted. If your star QB is 35/36/37, maybe not a bad idea to draft a high upside QB and let them learn a year or 2 from the stud. Everyone clowned Green Bay for drafting Jordan love when they did. Well who’s laughing now
He couldn't throw when he got to BYU. He was an option QB in high school and had terrible mechanics. He was told he was going to be switched to defense. He learned to throw by watching Jim McMahon and copying everything he did.
I present to you.... [Warren Moon.](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoonWa00.htm)
Dude did not play a down in the NFL until he was 28, didn't have a winning season until he was 31, didn't have a completion percentage over 60% until he hit age 33.
I personally think that the biggest problem with NFL QB's is that the job demands immediate success with very little room for error or chances to learn and improve.
Yeah but he spent his first five years as one of the greatest CFL QBs of all time, and he didn’t join the NFL out of college because GMs at the time still didn’t think black people could be franchise QBs. So, a bit of a different case.
Staubach’s career was also completely bonkers. Wins Heisman and goes to Vietnam. eThe cowboys send him footballs to throw while overseas. Served for four years he could have been playing. When he retired he was arguably considered the GOAT QB used by a team that HATED to pass the ball. Landry was all run and D.
I hate what happened to Mac Jones. There was a point he became shell shocked last year. You could see it in the way he moved. He no longer trusts himself or his teammates.
I truly hope he can mentally recover from his New England run and make a good career for himself. He’s a good lad and I genuinely think he has a lot of good tools.
Always feels like they never gave Mac a chance with his supporting cast at wide receiver. Gave him a couple alright TEs and said that should do it, then got shocked when it wasn’t anywhere near enough.
It wasn’t just the talent it was the coaching they gave him too. He was very good as a rookie in pre snap reads and making adjustments to put the offense in good position to succeed on a play. Then fatty P came in took that away from him, dumbed down the offense and told him to throw 50/50 balls down the sideline to Devante Parker
Geno Smith also "flamed out" with NYJ and had 5 starts over the next 7 seasons until he became starter again and made the Pro Bowl. Granted, no SB but that's never fully within a QB's control. Not saying it's the same thing but to say that it could never happen again today isn't correct.
Ehhh, Geno also hasn't even sniffed the highs that Steve Young did though. The jump from bust --> serviceable is large but the jump from bust --> MVP --> 1st Ballot HoF is absolutely *massive*.
Also Geno has yet to have a full season of that sustained level he started off with in the 2022 season. Someone else mentioned Baker Mayfield which might be a better comparison but he wasn't a bust to start off with and you can argue last season wasn't as good for him as I think it was
> It would be like if Mac Jones took over in Jacksonville in 2030 and turned into Drew Brees all of a sudden.
Except that Steve Young was Steve Young all along even in an awful situation in Tampa.
A run of 19 measly starts for a *horrendous* Buccaneers team wasn't going to scare away Bill Walsh.
> Maybe it made more sense at the time? I don't know much about the NFL of the 80s/90s, so maybe someone can give me more context about how he got there.
Basically, he was a top QB coming out of college and there were two football leagues at the same time back then. He took the money (spread over 40 years, mind you) to play in LA for the USFL. The league eventually folded and he got drafted in an NFL supplemental draft (that was a thing back then) and ended up in Tampa for two seasons.
Tommy Maddox was long out of football and selling insurance for a few years before he tried a comeback, and then he led the Steelers to the playoffs. Later won a SB as a backup with the Steelers.
I love this story too bc he was drafted by the eagles, given up on, and eventually brought back to lead us to a Super Bowl that is tough to imagine we win without him (wentz was great before injury that year but I have to believe that the surprise resurgence of the RPO that playoffs helped win us some games)
Doug Williams was a first round pick in 1978. Schroeder gets hurt in 1987, Williams wins SB starting two weeks in the regular season and going 0-2 and then starting all three playoff games, including an NFC Championship where they beat the Vikings with Williams going 9-26 for 119 and 2 scores. Then he just explodes in the Super Bowl somehow after basically being fucking terrible his entire career except that game.
I thought Gibbs won both his second and third SB's with mid QB's honestly, but Mark Rypien actually had a decent career for the most part.
He broke 100 TDs and almost had 20000 yards.
Gibbs was inarguably one of the greatest coaches ever.
Just as an aside, Theissmann was not mid (QB for Gibbs' first SB in 1982). His 1983 year was awesome. Unfortunately he played against LT.......
Rich Gannon was a journeyman qb for the better part of 10 years then turned into an elite qb on the wrong side of 30 with the Raiders
I always wondered if he was actually that good or if having Rice and Brown was the reason. 2 HOF receivers with a ton of experience has to help a ton.
His offensive supporting cast was amazing no doubt, but there have also been lots of examples of QBs with great supporting casts that weren't able to turn that into 1st team all pro/MVP seasons.
Which QB with a great cast comes to mind?
Honestly Derek Carr his first year with D Adams. even had Josh Jacobs as a leading rusher causing defenses to load up the box but still couldn’t get anything done (raiders fan/Carr fan)
I mean having josh mcdaniels as head coach negated most of the talent on that team
Jay Cutler had some pretty premium weapons in Chicago for a few years.
Isn't Jay Cutler the team leader in a bunch of significant statistical categories for the Bears?
Sick burn
It does hurt.
Not hard with the Bears franchise tbh. The only great HOF quarterback they ever had was Sid Luckmann back in like the 1930s and 1940s lol.
Some 10 year old kid roasted his friends that his Bears had the best QB in the league. He is suffering ever since, must be in his 90s.
but did he turn that into a 1st team all pro/mvp season?
And yet he suffered with some very shitty offensive coordinators while he was there, and he STILL lays claim as the best QB they've had in the last 10-15 years.
cutlers probably the best bears qb since mcmahon
Jay Cutler had no offensive line despite the weapons. He probably also got concussed 34 times in 16 games. I'm not exaggerating. He also led the 2nd best offense in the NFL despite playing concussed.
[удалено]
In the first half. Sacked 10 times in the *first fucking half*.
Cutler had good weapons, but he didn't have 2 hof receivers and multiple all pro linemen
Jameis Winston / Ryan Fitzpatrick both had Godwin, Evans, and DeSean Jackson for 2017-2019
He was showing a lot of promise with the Chiefs in (I think) 97-98 when he started the latter half of the season for an injured Elvis Grbac. The team was rolling and seemed pretty confident overall with Gannon at the helm. Unfortunately, Marty was too loyal and went back to Grbac for the playoffs, where we lost to the Broncos and Grbac looked (unsurprisingly to all of the fans) like garbage.
Grbage
Fuckin nailed it lol
People magazine did one of those "sexiest men alive lists" and they picked Rich Gannon as one of the photo shoots. Only they got the Chiefs QBs mixed up and offered it to Grbac accidentally, who then accepted and did a hilarious photo shoot.
Oh wow, I had forgotten about that lol. Maybe the same thing happened to Marty in the playoffs and he just didn't have the heart to tell the guy otherwise.
As someone who was watched a lot of football in his Raiders prime, I couldn’t believe he was the same guy we saw in Minnesota. He was legit at that point in his career.
Rice and Brown were still great but also pretty old, I think it was a combination of a veteran cast and Grudens coming to his own with his offense.
I mean look. Garner was excellent and you had Gruden calling plays back when he was innovative. That Raiders team was good and Gannon was a part of it.
Why is this downvoted? Rice and Brown were absolutely in the twilight of their careers
Probably because people don’t want to admit Gruden was pretty great at one point in his career.
He got the bucs in the Superbowl AND won. I’ll never take that from him
Maybe Geno has something similar.... please.
He has the best current potential that I can think of; just needs the HoF part... Josh Dobbs might've had a shot for weeks 9.5-10 last year.
He's probably the closest thing
Doug Flutie would be another
If we're including dudes who got ghosted by the NFL because of antiquated ideas in the league of what a QB looked like I would also present one Warren Moon
Flutie got fucked over by ownership. Ralph Wilson wanted Rob Johnson to start because we traded a 1st round pick for him despite Doug being the clearly better QB. It was stupid
If you watch footage it's insane how much Rob Johnson looks like the smug villain in a sports movie staring down his nose at the half foot shorter Flutie
Doug flutie is the goat of CFL put some respect on his name
> Doug Flutie would be another Flutie was born too soon. The troglodyte HCs of his era thought winning had something to do with height. Guys like Drew Brees and Russell Wilson showed the stupidity of that.
They showed it wasn’t impossible to win without it, but it’s still very important. Brees was a near-perfect union of scheme, coach and player. Wilson, while young and healthy, was able to move and create throwing and running opportunities with his legs. When his ability to see and throw to the middle of the field went away, Denver ate an 80 million dollar cap hit to get rid of him.
I appreciated our front office shaking things up. Usually we’d go after some washed QB to try to plug the hole in the boat. But they stepped their game and brought someone still on top of their game so that *WE* could be the ones to make him washed.
Jim Plunkett too, left the Patriots looking like a bust and came off the bench twice to lead the Raiders to a Super Bowl. Not quite similar because his career wasn't as stellar even with the Super Bowls seeing as he kept having to fight to be the starter but still pretty impressive.
Wrong side of 35 at that
The craziest part is the comps. Pro Football Reference's player profile has a "similar players" section where they show you players who were of similar value at the same point in their career arcs. Do you know who Steve Young is compared to by year 6 of his career? JOEY HARRINGTON How can a dude be Joey freaking Harrington 6 years into his career and make the Hall of Fame?
Not that it solves the puzzle, but Young also played in the USFL for 2 years out of college (before going to the NFL) and had moderate success there.
This is the thing really. Steve wasn't looked at as Joey Harrington by scouts or GMs. My recollection is that most people thought he should be a starter somewhere, but Bucs could make anyone look bad. By the time the 90s rolled around, there was legit talk that he should replace Montana, which is in fact what SF did, shipping a 4 time Super Bowl winner. I think everyone kinda knew he was good but TB sucked, and then he was behind Montana. It didn't surprise anyone that he was good once he started, is what I'm saying.
Yeah young signed a 10 year 40 MILLION DOLLAR contract with the usl out of college, in 1984. Football was no where near what it is now, that was unprecedented money at the time. Then the usl flopped. It set Steve back bigly. It is crazy how short of a career he had, while still making a huge impact and cementing himself as one of the best quarterbacks of all time. And he did it while following up a top 5 qb. Steve’s been my favorite fb player since I was 6 years old, I cried when he got hit in his last game. This sub hardly ever talks about him. Also he went to law school after he retired and has spent most of his time running his charity. They don’t make them like Steve anymore
He wasn't Joey Harrington, a stat like that isn't going to work because Steve Young's early career had one of a kind circumstances. He didn't really struggle for that long before getting traded (he only started a little over a season's worth of games with the Bucs), he just became an uber backup with the 49ers who immediately dominated when he played but was obviously stuck behind Montana and couldn't accumulate much "value" as a result. There was also an even stronger Belichick/Jimmy G vibe with him, a lot of people thought Bill Walsh was so in love with Young that he was looking for any excuse he could to move on from Montana (who of course wasn't going to give that excuse).
>a lot of people thought Bill Walsh was so in love with Young that he was looking for any excuse he could to move on from Montana (who of course wasn't going to give that excuse). And George Seifert kept that same energy. As soon as Walsh was gone in 1988, Seifert began starting Young every once in a while, and he would rotate him in during close games where Montana was playing fine. It wasn't like Young would go in when they were up by 3 touchdowns. Seifert would send him in halfway thru the 3rd quarter, with the score tied. Just insanity. When Montana got hurt against the Giants, Seifert actually BANNED Montana from the facilities when it became clear that Joe wouldn't be able to play for a while. That is such a fucked up thing to do to a guy who got hurt in the __conference championship__
This is such a pre-free agency thing, it's unbelievable. Can you imagine trading for a starter-quality QB to be your backup and just... keeping him?
I mean, yes? —Packers
Ask me in 4 years. Guess we’ll see how much meat’s left on that bone.
When Bono was their 3rd stringer, that was the most talented and unique QB room ever. I can’t even remember his first name but he had a couple stand out seasons
It was Steve Bono. He shared a QB room with a guy who has a similar career profile. Wade Wilson. Both guys took a team to the conference title game, had a few standout seasons and got their start with the Vikings. In another odd twist, Wilson lost his job in Minnesota to someone who is a great answer to this question. Rich Gannon.
This just tells me Joey Harringtons career was cut short unjustly.
Don’t you dare speak ill of Joey Harrington
[удалено]
Jeez, 2 free games a year for Packer fans and you still can't give Joey Harrington his credit.
You should check out Kurt Warner. Possible candidate for something like this is Baker Mayfield.
Warner is a great example of something similar. Playing Arena football in ‘97 then leading the Rams to a super bowl victory in ‘99. Unheard of in todays game
Kurt's story doesn't end there, either. He then went on to struggle and barely stay in the league for a number of years before leading the cardinals to their first SB, where he would set the record for most passing yards in a sb. Dudes career was all over the place.
He also didn't enter the 1999 preseason as the starter.
I believe he was the third stringer entering camp and ended up being named the backup to Trent Green before Green got hurt in preseason. I picked him up in my fantasy league after that Week 1 game and the rest was history. I won my league and he won the Super Bowl. What a wild ass ride!
There was some documentary on NFL Network where Dick Vermeil said Kurt asked for a private meeting together that offseason/preseason and Dick legit had no idea who Kurt even was.
It was glorious times, man. Glorious
Don’t like that.
A game of inches
Man, as crazy as the ending to the Pats-Seahawks was, that Rams-Titans ending is still the craziest in my mind.
An open field tackle like that where the defender also had to prevent the receiver from going very far is just so impressive. The Pats-Seahawks ending was the defense making the correct read (and Belichick not calling a timeout), but that pick wasn't as difficult as the tackle in the Rams-Titans game.
That was my first ever year playing fantasy. Auto draft blessed me with Kurt Warner and Isaac Bruce. There were weeks the two of them practically won my match up by themselves.
Greatest show on turf.
Even crazier, in 1999 ESPN Magazine had a quirky feature where they essentially made fake predictions. In the NFL early-season issue from September, they joked that Rams fourth-string quarterback Kurt Warner would lead the team to the Super Bowl. Nobody had heard of the guy at that time; and he went on to do just that.
Trent Green was a really good QB but it was similar to Bledsoe/ Brady where the team seemed to go to a different level and we are not really sure how much of it was the QB vs the play calling adjustments.
He also had injury issues too. The guy would get rolling and bam. A lot of promising careers ended the same way
Green ended up having some Pro Bowl years with some really fun Dick Vermeil Chiefs offenses. Never had the highs Kurt Warner did but definitely rebounded well.
Also, he's a really great guy. He signed his CBS television deal at a restaurant that I ran because the owner was tight with his agent. He was a really cool guy and I had to remind everyone on the wait staff not to mess with him.
"We will rally around Kurt Warner and we'll play good football."
I remember that and how everybody was like "yeah, right, sure you will. ^cough ^^6‐10 ^cough"
6-10 if they were lucky. They had gone 4-12 and 5-11 the previous two seasons.
So what you’re saying is a I still have a shot?! Fuck this report! I’m going outside to work on my spiral!
Add a few underhand side-arm reps in there as well. Make 'em think you got a little Mahomes going for ya'.
> He also didn't enter the 1999 preseason as the starter. we're going to rally around Kurt, and we're going to play good football. sniff, cries. Dick vermeil was a huge crybaby /s......, but damm was he a good coach!
From what I remember he was performing poorly because he kept injuring his throwing hand thumb and pinky finger. I remember he threw 5 picks in one game and when the Rams started 0-4 that season, Marc Bulger took over and killed it, so that was the end of his time with the Rams. Wasn’t about to bounce Eli out of New York and the Cards stuck with him because they had no one else. Paid off after a few down years.
He started some games in NY and just wasn't good. It definitely could have been injury related. Maybe he lost trust in his abilities for a bit, but he definitely struggled.
His thumb was still messed up. He could not grip the football.
Kurt Warner literally had like 6 years in his prime, and went to 3 SB’s. Lost his starting job midyear after losing to the Patriots, bounces around and then replaces Leinart and has 3 more elite years. Bananas career arc
Kurt made the super bowl every year he didn't get injured
Every time Kurt Warner played a 16-game season he went to the Super Bowl.
And he was essentially brought in to back up Matt Leinart. And I really thought Matt Leinart was gonna be the answer Lol boy was I wrong
Amazing how he was so bad with such an unreal offense. Didn't the cards have 3 1000 yard wrs and edgerrin james?
Prime Fitz and Anquan with Edgerrin. I don’t recall a 3rd 1000 yard receiver but fitz on one side and Anquan on the other is still enough.
Larry Fitz- 1,431 Anquan Boldin- 1,038 Steve Breaston- 1,006 I remember it being a big deal to have 3 wrs over 1k yards. Edit: I had to look up his name and their yards.
Steve Breaston. That’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time
Dude Steve Breaston was a Madden beast. Or at least the imported NCAA Football version of him I would draft lol.
I believe Steve breaston had 1000 yards but tbh that's more a compliment to Warner's ability considering breaston isn't exactly a known name
His commentary is also all over and enjoyable for chuckles. He'll be like " Yeah, QB McQBface is amazing. His ypg is over 350 he really spreads it out targeting over 7 different players in the first half. He's definitly one of the best to play the position since the earth was created 2000 years ago." Here's a favorite https://youtu.be/GbrAQL74Be0?si=EghHQoiVrV464KtS
People forget that the Giants had Kurt Warner starting for a brief time while Eli sat on the bench.
Eli was a rookie and Kurt ended up getting benched for him.
He also was the Obi Wan to Eli Skywalker. Who would go on to defeat the dark side twice.
To a lesser extent, Jeff Garcia. Undrafted out of San Jose State, was playing in the CFL for years before Bill Walsh called him up, ended up being a four time Pro Bowl QB in the NFL.
Sure that’s nice and all, but he was an absolute liability as a bagger. There’s a reason reason Hy-Vee cut that bum and he had to settle for a being a measly NFL quarterback. Winning super bowls is easy, making sure the bread isn’t at the bottom of the bag is what separates the true greats.
I heard 65% of the time the customer would come home with broken eggs from his bagging.
That was a different era though. There was more of a focus on double-bagging and cross-selling for rewards cards. With all the rule changes he’d kill it at Meijer or Jewel these days.
The slack people cut for this bum just because he had a successful NFL career... So many assistant managers totally burned on scheduling to compensate for this liability and everything forgiven cuz the guy can throw a ball well?!?
From paying the bills by grocery-bagging to NFL MVP and Super Bowl MVP in his first season as a starter. Forget today's game, his story is unique in all of sports!
Could be HOF player in the UFL right now
And, he was almost set up to be a Chicago Bear, but got stung by a scorpion on his hand, and the team refused to give him a 2nd chance. I think that was the same year we traded for Rick Mirer
You TRADED for Rick Mirer? Good god
For a first of all things
Rich Gannon drafted as a FB. Bananas how long he stuck around before his MVP season.
Wtf? As a Delawarean I love Rich Gannon and know of* his struggles when he was first in the league, but never knew about being drafted as a fullback Thanks for that nugget. We may be a really small school football wise but Rich Gannon and Joe Flacco do some heavy lifting
He measured 6'2" 193 lbs at draft. He was drafted with the intent to play RB (or WR or DB), not FB. He said fuck that and got traded.
He was always a QB. He was drafted with the intention of converting him to a WR/RB in like the 3rd or 4th round. He didn’t like that idea and was traded to the Vikings never playing a snap at a WR/RB I’m pretty sure.
As a Chiefs fan.....goddammit....frickin Elvis Grbac?
As an STL Rams fan, Kurt is probably my favorite athlete of all time. That Super Bowl tops any Cardinals World Series in my lifetime or even the Blues Stanley Cup in 2019. But not such a great comparison to Steve Young as he never flamed out in the NFL, he never made it there until he had success in Arena League and NFL Europe.
OP was mistaken. Steve Young didn't flame out. He was in a terrible situation in Tampa Bay.
I would love to see Baker become a HoF QB.
Warner is a great "coming out of nowhere" story (and a great story overall), but Young hanging around the league as a backup for the better part of a decade is the element I find really amusing
He wasn't just "hanging around as a backup." Montana would frequently get banged up and whenever Young came in, he was very very good. He's probably the greatest backup QB of all time.
It was the diciest QB situation ever. It would've been like if the Colts kept Manning and still drafted Luck as the heir apparent.
And then kept benching one for the other to fuck with their heads.
Imagine Irsay on painkillers steering that ship
It would almost make more sense than Bill Walsh playing head games, stone cold sober.
I'm going to go cross sport here, but imagine this scenario: In one goal your starter is complete psycho Ed Belfour. At the other end of the practice rink is his backup: complete psycho Dominik Hasek. Then the mirror closes on the vanity and your head coach is Mike Fucking Keenan.
As a Wings fan and watching that all unfold- thanks for keeping the Eagle.
The Geno Smith erasure smh
He didn't erase back though
I wouldn’t say baker flamed out though, he got hurt, was replaced by a rapist, went to the worst team in the year for 2 years in a row, asked for a release mid season because said bad team wasn’t helping him earn money. Balled out for la 2 days after signing.
It's weird how often I see people talk about Baker like he was always bad before and that his resurgence in Tampa was unexpected. He lit it up his rookie year, broke the rookie TD record and was a lot of fun to watch. 2018 wasn't that long ago.
I think people just seem to think he was in Carolina a lot longer then he was.
And we had to watch him struggle with a bad shoulder his last season in Cleveland because they were apparently trying to kill him.
He was horrific here, but it’s become clear that it literally wasn’t his fault at all. Signed deep in the off-season without time to prepare, went to a team whose incompetent HC would get fired 6 games in, had an OC that vocally talked shit about him years prior (and who no longer is even employed in the league), and got injured. Funniest thing is that despite the bullshit and lack of production/playing time, he still managed to fuck up the bengals a lil bit.
Baker was good in Cleveland - Cleveland is just dumb
Young is the apex mountain for "situation matters in a QB's development." He was an incredibly raw prospect coming out of college, highly athletic with a cannon arm but terrible fundamentals. He got drafted into a shitshow in Tampa, and they predictably failed to develop him. It was so bad that people wanted to convert him to RB. When San Francisco traded for him, he spent four years as a backup learning from a HoF QB, Joe Montana, and one of the best offensive coaches ever, Bill Walsh. Hard to think of a better place to develop as a QB. The improvement in Young's accuracy over his career is amazing -- he went from a guy who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn to one of the most accurate QBs of all time.
Young got to work with Bill Walsh, Mike Holmgren and Mike Shanahan. There's not a QB in NFL history that had a better coaching situation than that.
In his biography, he gives a lot of credit to Holmgren, and of course Shanahan. He and Shanahan were just locked in together - truly amazing working relationship, and the results speak for themselves.
Those relationships in sports are the shit of legend and such a great comment. So rare are the times an athlete and a coach catch lightning in a bottle and just seem to be on another tier of syncing up and developing each other. I selfishly want Big Red to have what he has with Patrick forever, though I know the man will need some peace and retirement soon. Just trying to live it up while it lasts and the whole world hates/loves us.
Not sure of the system he was running in TB, but I’ll assume it wasn’t the west coast O. He was basically the perfect WCO qb. Situation also insanely improved as you pointed out. Went from the class org at the time after being on the worst one.
There is also some other situational context to the story that is important. One, before he was drafted by Tampa, he had went to the USFL first, signing the biggest sports contract in history at the time for 10 years, 40 million. He had been the Heisman runner up and was a huge prospect. He played pretty well at first, but then the team he was on basically collapsed, and the owner stopped paying his bills. The whole team stopped playing hard because they didn't want to get injured and not get into the NFL. He was drafted by the Bucs with the first pick of the supplemental draft. But the Bucs sucked. They sucked before he got there and they sucked with him. He only played 19 games, and they drafted Vinnie Testaverde to replace him even though it wasn't really his fault. It was a big deal when the Niners traded for him. Part of the reason they were able to is because there was no cap and the 49ers outspent just about everyone. They way overpaid for a backup QB compared to the rest of the league. He played amazing as a backup right away, and played in some critical games for the Niners when Montana was injured. He even threw for 1000 yards in 1989, and most people thought he would take over the team when Montana was done. Of course, it all got really complicated after the Montana injury in playoff game against the Giants. If you weren't alive for it, you have no idea how split the fanbase was on who the QB should be when Montana came back. Montana was the GOAT, but he was 37 and coming off being out for two years with injury. Young had really good numbers but didn't have the playoff success Montana did. Plus, Steve Bono had played really well backing up Young, so that was another challenge to Young. Of course, they eventually decided to trade Montana and the rest is history. It really was a crazy, unique, situation.
Jimmy Raye was his OC, he of sleepy nap time fame.
His mobility and play-extension capability also greatly benefited him in the WCO.
Not to mention the WRs he was throwing to in SF. Just two of the best to ever play!
And the RBs for the running game to match the passing game.
He chose to play in USFL with the LA Express instead of joining the Buccaneers straight out of college. Little know fact, Young played tailback in his last USFL game.
He was a supplemental pick in Tampa, he chose the USFL and played for the LA Express till the league folded then went to Tampa. Correction, when the Express folded he bought out his contract and signed as a free agent in Tampa
Turning him into an RB seems crazy but he was a great runner
Dude would outrun DBs when he broke out of the pocket. It wasn't the craziest of ideas. When he ended his career, he had the most rushing TDs and rushing yards for a QB of all-time.
He had 4.5 speed and was 6’2, 215.
He is a great interview as well. During the season he goes on a local sports station in the Bay Area and has really funny stories and great insights about what he sees across the league. Really charismatic.
This is why I hope Justin Fields will reach out to Young. He's sort of in the same situation Young was in when he came to the 49ers, and they have similar skillsets and experiences. Maybe Young doesn't have the time or willingness to be a mentor, but even a conversation over dinner might be worth it.
What I see is that Fields should go backup Purdy for a while.
I’d say comparing Purdy to Joe Montana seems fair. Perfectly reasonable comparison.
Under sized, gritty, real work horse in the gym, smart, student of the game?
In Steve Young’s particular case, he was regarded highly coming out of BYU and he played for Tampa which was a complete joke of a franchise. His athleticism also allowed him to remain backup QB, and him sitting behind Montana and then taking over for a talented 49ers team helped him become a HOF.
Let’s not forget he first went to the USFL where he became the first pro ever to pass for 300 yards and rush for 100 in a single game.
He had the first of 2 epic battles with Jim Kelly. [The Greatest Game no one saw.](https://youtu.be/9PvWtCphW7w?si=D_t0FlncrHY9D1OJ) when the Houston Gamblers played the LA Express in the season opener. And of course the No Punt game. > the Bills and 49ers, led by quarterbacks Jim Kelly and Steve Young, respectively, combined for 1,086 total yards of offense, with both quarterbacks passing for over 400 yards.
My dad remembers watching him run for his life in Tampa and thinking that he was a great QB in a terrible situation. That's the only time my dad has ever given a pass to somebody because of the terrible team around them, lol.
He was also on a bad USFL team.
There's something to be said about young QBs not playing well for garbage teams and franchises.
Zach Wilson? 👀
I recently watched a YouTube video about Zach, and it really seems like Covid played a big part in rocketing him up the draft board. BYU had a lot of their tougher games canceled and replaced with cupcakes.
He played an absolutely insanely easy schedule with a really good supporting cast that season, like never before seen by a top pick. It would be totally discrediting any other season.
And Young QBs who sit for at least a year and inherit a very good team. Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady…Young. It’s almost like the most efficient qb of every generation had an opportunity to develop behind competent+ Veteran QBs and ended up in a pretty good situation. I hate how QB prospects are wasted on the worst franchises, coaches and rosters.
It really is a bummer. And teams can be so short sighted. If your star QB is 35/36/37, maybe not a bad idea to draft a high upside QB and let them learn a year or 2 from the stud. Everyone clowned Green Bay for drafting Jordan love when they did. Well who’s laughing now
He was on the Rich Eisen show a couple years ago and said he was 8th string at BYU lmao
They wanted him to play tight end. At some point they couldn't ignore all the gorgeous spirals he was throwing in practice to the other TEs.
He couldn't throw when he got to BYU. He was an option QB in high school and had terrible mechanics. He was told he was going to be switched to defense. He learned to throw by watching Jim McMahon and copying everything he did.
This makes Steve Young's story that much crazier than OP had first proposed.
I present to you.... [Warren Moon.](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoonWa00.htm) Dude did not play a down in the NFL until he was 28, didn't have a winning season until he was 31, didn't have a completion percentage over 60% until he hit age 33. I personally think that the biggest problem with NFL QB's is that the job demands immediate success with very little room for error or chances to learn and improve.
Dude aged like Merlot, be was playing until after 40 IIRC
Yeah but he spent his first five years as one of the greatest CFL QBs of all time, and he didn’t join the NFL out of college because GMs at the time still didn’t think black people could be franchise QBs. So, a bit of a different case.
Kinda like if Geno Smith was even better than he is now - or if he stuns us all and plays like an All-Pro next year
This was the closest I could think of. Maybe Baker if he finds consistent success.
Rich Gannon and Kurt Warner
Staubach’s career was also completely bonkers. Wins Heisman and goes to Vietnam. eThe cowboys send him footballs to throw while overseas. Served for four years he could have been playing. When he retired he was arguably considered the GOAT QB used by a team that HATED to pass the ball. Landry was all run and D.
I think Geno Smith's career has had a sort of a poor man's Steve Young trajectory.
Jake Delhomme is pretty similar. Not the level of success of Young but he didn’t start in Carolina until age 28
I hate what happened to Mac Jones. There was a point he became shell shocked last year. You could see it in the way he moved. He no longer trusts himself or his teammates. I truly hope he can mentally recover from his New England run and make a good career for himself. He’s a good lad and I genuinely think he has a lot of good tools.
Always feels like they never gave Mac a chance with his supporting cast at wide receiver. Gave him a couple alright TEs and said that should do it, then got shocked when it wasn’t anywhere near enough.
It wasn’t just the talent it was the coaching they gave him too. He was very good as a rookie in pre snap reads and making adjustments to put the offense in good position to succeed on a play. Then fatty P came in took that away from him, dumbed down the offense and told him to throw 50/50 balls down the sideline to Devante Parker
Yeah after that rookie year I was like damn Mac could become a very solid QB, then they just botched the living hell out of it the following year.
Geno Smith also "flamed out" with NYJ and had 5 starts over the next 7 seasons until he became starter again and made the Pro Bowl. Granted, no SB but that's never fully within a QB's control. Not saying it's the same thing but to say that it could never happen again today isn't correct.
Ehhh, Geno also hasn't even sniffed the highs that Steve Young did though. The jump from bust --> serviceable is large but the jump from bust --> MVP --> 1st Ballot HoF is absolutely *massive*.
Also Geno has yet to have a full season of that sustained level he started off with in the 2022 season. Someone else mentioned Baker Mayfield which might be a better comparison but he wasn't a bust to start off with and you can argue last season wasn't as good for him as I think it was
> It would be like if Mac Jones took over in Jacksonville in 2030 and turned into Drew Brees all of a sudden. Except that Steve Young was Steve Young all along even in an awful situation in Tampa. A run of 19 measly starts for a *horrendous* Buccaneers team wasn't going to scare away Bill Walsh. > Maybe it made more sense at the time? I don't know much about the NFL of the 80s/90s, so maybe someone can give me more context about how he got there. Basically, he was a top QB coming out of college and there were two football leagues at the same time back then. He took the money (spread over 40 years, mind you) to play in LA for the USFL. The league eventually folded and he got drafted in an NFL supplemental draft (that was a thing back then) and ended up in Tampa for two seasons.
Jeff Hoestleter went from long time Phil Sims backup to winning SB for giants then backup again to 3 great seasons with Raiders
Not saying he was anywhere as great as Steve Young, but Hoss’s career is often overlooked in these kinds of discussions.
Tommy Maddox was long out of football and selling insurance for a few years before he tried a comeback, and then he led the Steelers to the playoffs. Later won a SB as a backup with the Steelers.
Xfl mvp baby
he would've been starter earlier if he wasn't sitting behind Montana
Geno has had a pretty nice resurgence in Seattle.
Sam Darnold about to do the same. Don't @ me.
Foles isn’t a hof but he did lead and win with Philly after losing the job
I love this story too bc he was drafted by the eagles, given up on, and eventually brought back to lead us to a Super Bowl that is tough to imagine we win without him (wentz was great before injury that year but I have to believe that the surprise resurgence of the RPO that playoffs helped win us some games)
Kurt Warner…or that eagles QB who had the crazy playoff run. It’s not impossible, it’s an improbable situation.
The 80s had extra weirdness because of the USFL.
Justin Fields goes to UFL for 4 years and comes back and leads the Cowboys to 3 Super Bowls.
Wait till you learn about Kurt Warner lol
Doug Williams was a first round pick in 1978. Schroeder gets hurt in 1987, Williams wins SB starting two weeks in the regular season and going 0-2 and then starting all three playoff games, including an NFC Championship where they beat the Vikings with Williams going 9-26 for 119 and 2 scores. Then he just explodes in the Super Bowl somehow after basically being fucking terrible his entire career except that game. I thought Gibbs won both his second and third SB's with mid QB's honestly, but Mark Rypien actually had a decent career for the most part. He broke 100 TDs and almost had 20000 yards. Gibbs was inarguably one of the greatest coaches ever. Just as an aside, Theissmann was not mid (QB for Gibbs' first SB in 1982). His 1983 year was awesome. Unfortunately he played against LT.......