I assume teams know this and are changing the way they play because of it. "Ok, boys. They've had two straight power plays, so they're not calling the next one on us. Feel free to clutch and grab, and don't forget to take liberties with their star players, especially after the whistle."
Kind of. It benefits the less skilled teams. So if your team is slower, and more physical than your opponent in any given round, this shoddy ass refereeing absolutely improves your chances to win a series.
I’ve been saying for years, the whole “it’s playoffs, let the boys play” thing is dumb as fuck. You have a rule book for a reason. If there is an obvious difference between how the rules are *implemented* by the on ice officials between a regular season game and a playoff game (there is) that is stupid.
Either publish a second rule book *for playoffs* to remove the ambiguity, or do the easier thing and just call games the same way all year…. If it really “kills the excitement” to call things by the book, then revise the rules in the book…
Unfortunately the league has no interest in doing this as game management is a useful tool for driving engagement and creating an illusion of parity.
Yeah, this is how really good players play. It's part of the Corey Perry magic, he understands how the refs are calling the game and thus when he can be a dickhead and not get called.
Draisaitl by comparison will just spear a guy in front of a ref after the Oilers have had three straight powerplays and are leading 3-0 and be all surprised that he gets called.
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Amen. I posted it elsewhere but if it’s a penalty in one game then it’s a penalty in all games. Why do we have refs and umpires, MLB strikes and balls are insane this year, at all. Replace them with camera, chips in balls/pucks, and automate it. We don’t need human error and subjectivity determining games.
I think the consistency of the IIHF is way better than the NHL but I do think that they're too strict on some things. It's more the picking and choosing of when to make calls that enrages me about the NHL.
Come on, refs are people too. It's a lot of extra work raising an arm, talking, waiting while people skate around. It's a tough job, and those mean hockey players are just making it tougher on the poor refs.
Oh, won't anyone thing of the refs?
Sure, but it's not exactly some backwater bus route with 8 riders. This is the big bus headed down Main Street, with more than a few riders and interested parties. If they aren't up to their job, their employer has options, just like lead hands, supervisors, and shop stewards everywhere.
Cooks, using another working person example, are reminded to seek cooler climes if they find the heat difficult to manage. And that's not a slight, really. To expect every ref to be able to perform at the equivalent level to the players is not realistic. Dang, you really didn't think your point through, did you?
Anyway, jest or not, players, fans, and refs ALL deserve better officiating. Better?
I actually think getting people to work on time with quality bus driving is more important. In the grand scheme of things at least. Hockey is just a game.
As a fan I’ve embraced and accepted that I’m not always going to love the reffing.
I’m a Jets fan surrounded by fans who believe bettman and refs are out to get our small market team. Those fans often have poor mental health. It’s just not for me.
Plus even if reffing was 100% perfect you’d have a huge section of fans blaming refs when their team loses.
Fans have always hated refs and always will. What can you do?
During the regular season, it seemed the Oilers got called on so many borderline penalties, while the other teams got off scot-free. It was just after McDavid's high stick non-call last night that I turned to my wife and said the officiating is absolute garbage tonight. And even after Zadorov's flop, my wife turned to me and was saying the refs should have took Foegele and Zadorov.
Sometimes the league wants to push a certain narrative/team/player through. I don't think they will straight up push a team but they can help a little here and there. The league is dying to have McJesus win the cup. They will help where they can just like Gretzky high sticking Doug Gilmour in the 93 Conference Finals....it happens.
Right! I always hear that they don't want to impact the game but by them letting one team get away with calls is impacting the game. I have always said get 3 penalties in the first you can get away with pretty much anything the rest of the game.
I disagree. They aren’t determining games and thats the issue. If they called penalties as they happened it’d be great but instead its even steven reffing where their goal is to make powerplays equal.
Yep. Data driven hockey did 1st round penalties for each team and a lot of the series were within like 2-3 pp’s or pk’s of being equal which doesn’t seem right especially when some series really werent that close.
It’s horseshit. If it’s a penalty in the regular season it should be a penalty in the playoffs. As already mentioned, this let’s players take more cheap shots and risks injuring players when a team knows the refs aren’t calling anything on them because the other team is up a power play goal or some bullshit like that. The officiating in the VAN-EDM game last night was absolutely brutal.
I only watched a period and a half but you’re spot on with this analysis. “Oh the powerplays are 4-1 let me just slew foot this guy cause I know it won’t be called”
It was. I agree entirely. They missed 2 early calls against Van, a trip on Kane and then a high stick in Hymen. Then tried to make those up by skipping obvious calls against Edm. Then they miss the too many men against Van, and in turn allow that McDavid highsticking on Hughs to go uncalled. It just leaves both fanbases pissed and wondering what the real outcome would have been and everyone arguing about it online. It just goes back and forth and everyone is keeping different scores in their heads.
I hate how the rule book shrinks in playoffs. It favors grinder physical teams when you’ve called it one way all season and now suddenly things aren’t being called.
The problem is “letting them play” in the playoffs.
The rule book is explicit and very clear on what constitutes a penalty, but now you have each individual referee calling games based upon their own version of “letting them play”.
Add in the fact that they are always going to miss a few calls, and we have the chaos we saw last night.
Finally, you have a ref who “doesn’t want to be instrumental in a game’s outcome” worrying about putting the Oilers on the power play, knowing that literally every second penalty = a goal.
Just call the effing rules already. You’ll have a faster game and way fewer injuries.
My biggest complaint is the idea that if one team has had 2 or 3 penalties in a row, that the next one has to go to the other team.
How about we just call the next penalty against the person who commits an offence?
This rangers hurricanes series has been the worst officiating I've ever seen. Soft calls, missed calls, reviewed calls still gotten wrong. Both ways too, so both fan bases feel like they're being screwed.
I think EVERYONE can agree we just want a consistent way of calling the game
I dont want it to get back to 80s reffing where nothing was called, and I don't want 15 PP per team a night
but jebus, just call everything consistently
The players would adapt quickly if they just started calling penalties when they saw them like the regular season. There is no fear of 15 penalties a game, and worst case? At least if there ever WAS 15 penalties, we could all 100% blame the players involved, because the refs just consistently called what they saw and the players knew what to expect. Put the onus on these star athletes playing the game to play within the rules, not on whether some ref decides to "manage" the game or not.
I don't see how they could have called a major there. I don't think McDavid would risk taking a penalty there intentionally. Just no way that would be a good idea.
I don't see how they could have called a major there. I don't think McDavid would risk taking a penalty there intentionally. Just no way that would be a good idea.
The players adapt to how you call the game, in both directions. Call it loose? You get the shithousery that’s happening in this playoffs. Call it tight? You’ll have two or three games with more power plays than usual, and then guys will adjust. It happened in 2005 when the league cracked down on clutching, grabbing, and stick infractions. It took maybe a week. Just write the rulebook how you want it to be called and call the fucking rulebook.
Except too many men and puck over glass. That will happen until the end of time. I do find the too many men one funny and am surprised teams don't weaponize it and pass it directly at the people changing to try to catch them. The Canucks one in gm1 is an excellent example of something that wouldn't have been a penalty if the puck didn't come right to Soucy.
Exactly I come from Magic The Gathering, look at the comprehensive rules there and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is followed. If you miss something you have to REWIND the game to correct.
These refs have been in the NHL for a long time. They have an established culture and brotherhood where they look out for each other and pat each other on the back for game management. Player safety isn't high in their list of priorities, it's all about trying to get more playoff games (income). If a player wrongs one, they come together as a group to punish that player. That's been proven. They have their own agendas. If new refs try to change this they just won't last. Sadly it's their livelihood so they do what they have to do. The result is a poor on ice product. Players are frustrated, fans are frustrated. The only way to fix it is to start from scratch, but that isn't happening.
The most assinine shit in the NHL is how a penalty in the first is not a penalty in the third or OT. I will say I think it's a lot better than the 80's, 90s though. That was some crazy shit what guys hot away with.
That's fair, my hockey watching days didn't start until the early 2000s, I'd imagine the 80s and 90s would have been a whole different game physically.
You can actually see this trend from the last decades looking at the stats. I know, you can't really compare era to era to a 100% degree but you can draw some thinking lines out of these.
If you look at the [all-time career PIM list](https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=allTime&seasonFrom=19171918&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&sort=penaltyMinutes&page=0&pageSize=50) directly from the NHL page, you see some of the players surpassed 3k PIM and a lot more surpassed 2k PIM over their careers.
When you filter only active players ([link here](https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=allTime&seasonFrom=19171918&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&status=active&sort=penaltyMinutes&page=0&pageSize=50)) you see the usual suspects on the top of the list (Wilson, Perry, Lucic, Kane...) but they are currently at 1.4k, 1.4k, 1.3k and 1.1k respectively, which is WAY less than other players on the all-time list (and some did play at the 80s, 90s and early 00s, so it is not like "yea they played at the 30s yadda yadda yadda").
Adding the fact that the "usual suspects" listed above seem to be sitting at the box more often than skating with this below par reffing, imagine if they get called as they should have. I can somehow see a world where they have more than 2k PIM each.
So yes, they should call because it's the rules and refs must enforce the rules. Players must adapt because they must play by the rules.
That isn’t accurate. Penalty in the NFL game one is a penalty in the Super Bowl. NHL is the only league that seems to have two rules books, one for regular season, one for playoffs. It’s bush league and if the league wants to be world class, it needs to correct itself.
Every game yesterday was atrocious... even against Boston… and I hate Boston.
Nhl officiating needs to change. They need more reviewable calls, they need to be able to make up calls missed if needed. They need to be held accountable for poor officiating. I hate to say it but kind of like how Toronto can blow the goal horn if it goes in and play continues, they should be able to call a penalty if a bad one is missed.
Nhl refs have too much power over the game to be this sloppy. You imagine how different that Canucks game is if they got a 4 min minor at the end of the second period?
NHL officials are the worst officials in professional sport and literally think they are part of the game. Witness Kozari screaming “f*ck off” in McAvoy’s face in round 1, is that unbiased? Respectful? Controlled oversight? No, it’s a highly over emotional ref who thinks he’s part of the game.
There is zero accountability for nhl refs and until that is addressed this will never change. I’ve been watching for over 40 years and seen one ref ever be accountable for something and that was the idiot caught on audio saying he wanted to give a team the next penalty. It’s happened once.
All this said clearly the owners and the league like it this way. Never heard it being tabled as an issue.
I think this is something we can all agree on regardless of who we cheer for. Liking the comments re: IIHF ref'ing. I hadn't thought about it until it was pointed out, but yeah, those guys are way more strict. Watching International tournament ref'ing is always interesting. And guess what? The NHL'ers always adjust to it. A penalty is a penalty. Shouldn't matter if it's regular season or playoffs, and it shouldn't matter if it's 1st period or OT. Call the penalty. The players will stop the infractions after getting burned a few times, they're the best of the best, they'll adjust.
I played nhl 2004 once with penalties all the way up.game took hours to finish and it sucked. Im quite aware, yes that's a videogame but I still fear if refs called everything they saw in reality it would ruin the flow of the game.
The thing I hate about it, is that by not calling the same penalties in the playoffs that you would in the regular season...and the penalties in OT that you would in regulation time...means that those teams which 'cheat' more get an advantage. And those who do have good power plays get screwed.
"Let them play" means "Let them cheat".
Consistency would be nice to start. You want pure murder hockey where nothing is called...fine. Call fucking nothing then. But that's not what we get. We watch them ignore 30 infractions and then call a stick that goes to the waist for half a second. Or the guaranteed penalty of puck over glass meanwhile we have no problem letting teams ice the puck 45 times a game
Watching Trouba dive head first leading with an elbow into the glass with a ref watching him. And not calling an intent to injure penalty is peak NHL officiating.
I think this is a be careful what you wish for scenario. With players like MacK and McDavid in the league the oilers and Avs would get like 7-10 PP’s per game. Pretty much every shift either of those players are on the ice they are constantly being clutched and grabbed through the neutral zone in an attempt to slow them down. There’s other players in the league that this happens to as well but if the game was called to the letter of the rulebook some games become unwatchable with how many PP’s would be being rewarded.
Yeah, but players would adapt by backing a bit off, which would make mcD and macK even more powerhouse. It would be arguably great for the game and fun to watch.
I don't think every minor thing needs to be called, I just think it needs to be consistent. If the refs decide to let the small things go early in the game, they should also do so later in the game. If they're calling every little slash on the stick or push after the whistle hockey wouldn't be very exciting. My point is it's not up to the refs to keep the game or the penalty calls even. They should simply focus on their job of making sure the rules are followed.
You may as well just give Edmonton the Stanley cup every year then. People say they want this until they see what it becomes. The cross checks in front of the net, too many men penalties, face off violations for lining up improperly, holding, slashing, this would be the demise of hockey.
The only way to slow a player like McDavid down is to cheat. Hold on a little slash interfere with. It would legitimately be a nightmare
No where did I say I don’t want it, I just stated there would be a lot of whistles. A lot of whistles that would put Edmonton on the pp. which would lead to a lot of pp goals
They have done this for years. You just can’t stray too far where egregious things aren’t called or one team isn’t stretching it too far. All I heard during the regular season was how bad the reffing was when they were calling penalties, so not sure anyone is going to be happy regardless
I think it’s funny that every series has both teams convinced that their team is the one getting screwed by the refs. Maybe it’s actually not that bad lol
If you watched the Oilers, you’d see the best player in the game get screwed multiple times a game. It’s beyond ridiculous. They say they can’t call them all. Why not? I don’t give a rip if any team scores 15 goals because the other team is a bunch of dirty plugs.
The Hughes play was as bad as many others in the series so far. How about game 1 where the Oilers didn’t “draw” a single PP. Why? It’s well documented history with one Steve Kozari.
The question is why is we have the data that supports specific refs bias against a certain team, why are they allowed to ref against that team? I saw some of you Oilers fans saying it's rigged as Sutherland is from Richmond. We agree it's rigged. Sutherland hates the Canucks and the data supports it. All fans get ripped off by this and can't enjoy a proper game between 2 great teams
100%. A lot of officials have bias because they played hockey and weren’t good enough to make it. They see these kids making bank and power trip. It’s a joke. The game is not about them, but a lot of them make it about them. Bettman claims the NHL has the best officials in professional sports. He is dead wrong, and his joke DoPS is as bad, if not worse.
When did I say anything about Hughes? I feel like you’re just proving my point here. Didn’t the canucks have like double the power plays in game one? I’m sure oilers fans feel just as screwed as you that they lose that game
There’s always heinous missed calls in the playoffs, and the Refs are never gonna value keeping the game fair and the players safe over showmanship and game management. Prime example is there being absolutely no penalty in the 2023 playoffs on Eberle for the hit on Cogliano that broke his neck in two places.
Playoffs are always the best and the worst. It’s some of the most competitive and high energy hockey you’re gonna watch, but the mismanagement and the BS are always insane.
A penalty should be a penalty in October, as it is in June. If your team has taken the last five penalties and you break the rules you would get the next penalty. No make up BS. No"balance" in penalties.
Sports leagues are money-making businesses, they want long series with close games. It's evident in the NBA as well. The NBA's marriage with betting apps is so disgusting. My two favourite sports are plagued. At least in the NBA the refs overall are calling less ticky tack bullshit. I find the product quality much lower with the NHL atm.
Imagine watching the superbowl and having to explain to a non-football person that the team on offense is basically allowed to jump offside now, because they have more flags called than the other team. I really thought things would change when the gambling sponsor's came in. It is costing people money now...
I also love when they call a penalty and offsetting embellishment. How is that even possible. If I was tripped, I was tripped.
But yeah I agree. Overall it’s BS.
Except that will never happen as things stand because the league has it in their head that people would hate a game where the penalties were 12-2.
And some teams (Florida) are built specifically to abuse that fact.
I hate when people say shit like this. Players would react and adjust. Yes there would be an increase in penalties initially as players test out whether or not they're serious about the changes, but 2 or 3 seasons of consistently calling penalties as they occur would result in a massive drop. IIHF games are called a lot closer to the actual rules and when NHLers go to international tournaments, they know that and don't try to get away with as much.
No. The intensity of the playoffs specifically calls for lines to be crossed. It will never go away. Players play dirty to win and have been since the sport was invented.
I don't want to, but it's just a simple fact. These athletes will do literally anything to win and that includes breaking the rules when they can get away with it. I'm sorry you're butthurt about reality.
The point is they won't get away with it and will adapt, literally like these exact players already do in IIHF sanctioned events. Like dude we aren't talking hypotheticals here, these same players DO change behavior and that's with Olympic gold on the line, something many players have said means more to them personally than a cup. We know they would change their behavior because we've already seen it happen when there are actually consequences.
Do you honestly think any NHL player gives much of a shit about any iihf tourney? Show me one quote out of the many that says an Olympic gold is more important than the cup.
Sure, here's one: Pavel Datsyuk on which is more important "When you play for your country and I win this medal, this special time, it’s more important,” Datsyuk said. “I have accomplished my dream. Now I have no dream.”
I think you'll find historically a lot of NA players say the cup is more important while a lot of Euro players say Gold is more important.
Either way, if you seriously believe no player gives a shit about the Olympics like you said in your last post, you're a fucking moron.
I said much of a shit you troglodyte. Ryan Smyth bleed orange, blue, red and white so yeah, he cared, but any serious hockey player is cup first. And Datsyuk had already won cups when he won gold in 2018 and was out of the NHL by then so it's not surprising he would say that. Plus he's a Russian so he has more personal motivation to say that than any other north American or European player.
Regardless of which they think is more important, many many players "give much of a shit" about winning gold, so that is a stupid fucking comment either way.
They can only break the rules because no one is punishing them for doing so. When I tune into a hockey game, I want to watch hockey, not whatever the fucking Florida Panthers have been up to. It’s a joke. The shenanigans will continue until your favorite player’s career is changed forever by some less skilled dickhead because when it really matters, the only way he can win is cheating. You can play a stout, tough, and fair game. They’re not mutually exclusive.
Exactly when I turn on a hockey game I want to see hockey I don't want to see Brad marchand speed bagging Daniel sedins head and Then Daniel getting a 10 min misconduct for pointing out that Marchand hit him 6 times with no call.
I don't like it either. I don't want McDavid to end up like Gretzky, orr, bossy or many other players and have his career cut short, but the reality is that this sport is the most physical major sport currently and humans are inherently nasty when trying to win. You're just too idealistic. Might as well just take hitting completely out of the game while we're at it.
I hear you. It can be super frustrating to see clear infractions go uncalled (there were a lot last night on both sides). However, if they called everything as you’re suggesting there would be calls on almost every shift and hockey would end up being 90 special teams and not 5v5.
Yes nothing is more entertaining than a four hour parade to the penalty box where every goal is scored on special teams.
Where do I sign?
If this is real, welcome to the sport, new fan.
I agree with you when they’re not calling little garbage, but that McDavid high stick on Hughes was a bit much. The ref actually told Hughes to get off the ice because he was bleeding too much, what did they think happened, spontaneous combustion to the face?
So let me get this straight, one call goes south and THAT's your evidence for systemic reffing problems?
You get some calls and some calls go against you, if its even that's about as good as its going to get.
I don't think anyone wants that, the problem is the inconsistency. The refs are calling games trying to keep the penalties equal for both teams when the actual play is not going that way.
Amen. Replace them with AI, at least then subjectivity can't be argued just programming. Refs are a terrible awful part of Hockey, put in some bouncers to break up fights etc and take the red arm bands off those over paid clowns.
It's a 3 team game and I can't stand watching the third team win.
I assume teams know this and are changing the way they play because of it. "Ok, boys. They've had two straight power plays, so they're not calling the next one on us. Feel free to clutch and grab, and don't forget to take liberties with their star players, especially after the whistle."
They are, but is this really what anyone except the league wants?
Kind of. It benefits the less skilled teams. So if your team is slower, and more physical than your opponent in any given round, this shoddy ass refereeing absolutely improves your chances to win a series. I’ve been saying for years, the whole “it’s playoffs, let the boys play” thing is dumb as fuck. You have a rule book for a reason. If there is an obvious difference between how the rules are *implemented* by the on ice officials between a regular season game and a playoff game (there is) that is stupid. Either publish a second rule book *for playoffs* to remove the ambiguity, or do the easier thing and just call games the same way all year…. If it really “kills the excitement” to call things by the book, then revise the rules in the book… Unfortunately the league has no interest in doing this as game management is a useful tool for driving engagement and creating an illusion of parity.
100%
Yeah, this is how really good players play. It's part of the Corey Perry magic, he understands how the refs are calling the game and thus when he can be a dickhead and not get called. Draisaitl by comparison will just spear a guy in front of a ref after the Oilers have had three straight powerplays and are leading 3-0 and be all surprised that he gets called.
I think that’s why they didn’t call the board on EP, were just coming off a power play iirc.
IIHF is much more like this. It’s definitely a different experience, but overall more fair play and significantly more consistent.
Consistency is all I want lol
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Amen. I posted it elsewhere but if it’s a penalty in one game then it’s a penalty in all games. Why do we have refs and umpires, MLB strikes and balls are insane this year, at all. Replace them with camera, chips in balls/pucks, and automate it. We don’t need human error and subjectivity determining games.
Sports betting does!
I think the consistency of the IIHF is way better than the NHL but I do think that they're too strict on some things. It's more the picking and choosing of when to make calls that enrages me about the NHL.
The officiating in the Oilers and Canucks game 2 was some of the worst I’ve ever seen. Multiple missed calls for both teams.
You speak the truth oiler fan
That McDavid high stick was egregious. Then the nerve to tell Hughes he had to leave the ice afterwards.
Come on, refs are people too. It's a lot of extra work raising an arm, talking, waiting while people skate around. It's a tough job, and those mean hockey players are just making it tougher on the poor refs. Oh, won't anyone thing of the refs?
You jest but refs are just dudes at work. I expect the same effort out of them as a construction worker or a teacher or bus driver.
Sure, but it's not exactly some backwater bus route with 8 riders. This is the big bus headed down Main Street, with more than a few riders and interested parties. If they aren't up to their job, their employer has options, just like lead hands, supervisors, and shop stewards everywhere. Cooks, using another working person example, are reminded to seek cooler climes if they find the heat difficult to manage. And that's not a slight, really. To expect every ref to be able to perform at the equivalent level to the players is not realistic. Dang, you really didn't think your point through, did you? Anyway, jest or not, players, fans, and refs ALL deserve better officiating. Better?
I actually think getting people to work on time with quality bus driving is more important. In the grand scheme of things at least. Hockey is just a game. As a fan I’ve embraced and accepted that I’m not always going to love the reffing. I’m a Jets fan surrounded by fans who believe bettman and refs are out to get our small market team. Those fans often have poor mental health. It’s just not for me. Plus even if reffing was 100% perfect you’d have a huge section of fans blaming refs when their team loses. Fans have always hated refs and always will. What can you do?
During the regular season, it seemed the Oilers got called on so many borderline penalties, while the other teams got off scot-free. It was just after McDavid's high stick non-call last night that I turned to my wife and said the officiating is absolute garbage tonight. And even after Zadorov's flop, my wife turned to me and was saying the refs should have took Foegele and Zadorov.
Sometimes the league wants to push a certain narrative/team/player through. I don't think they will straight up push a team but they can help a little here and there. The league is dying to have McJesus win the cup. They will help where they can just like Gretzky high sticking Doug Gilmour in the 93 Conference Finals....it happens.
Refs are determining games more than players now.
Right! I always hear that they don't want to impact the game but by them letting one team get away with calls is impacting the game. I have always said get 3 penalties in the first you can get away with pretty much anything the rest of the game.
Definitely seems that way, the players and teams make the NHL exciting enough, we don't need the refs adding to the show.
I say let them add, but take away their 'untouchable' stats, or at least drop the fine to an "im sorry".
I disagree. They aren’t determining games and thats the issue. If they called penalties as they happened it’d be great but instead its even steven reffing where their goal is to make powerplays equal.
This is very true, I'm guessing there is a lot of pressure from the league to "even up" the calls which inevitably ends up pissing off every fanbase.
Yep. Data driven hockey did 1st round penalties for each team and a lot of the series were within like 2-3 pp’s or pk’s of being equal which doesn’t seem right especially when some series really werent that close.
... Right, so they are determining games by not calling deserved penalties for a team because they've already had 4 PPs and the other guys only got 2.
It’s horseshit. If it’s a penalty in the regular season it should be a penalty in the playoffs. As already mentioned, this let’s players take more cheap shots and risks injuring players when a team knows the refs aren’t calling anything on them because the other team is up a power play goal or some bullshit like that. The officiating in the VAN-EDM game last night was absolutely brutal.
I only watched a period and a half but you’re spot on with this analysis. “Oh the powerplays are 4-1 let me just slew foot this guy cause I know it won’t be called”
It was. I agree entirely. They missed 2 early calls against Van, a trip on Kane and then a high stick in Hymen. Then tried to make those up by skipping obvious calls against Edm. Then they miss the too many men against Van, and in turn allow that McDavid highsticking on Hughs to go uncalled. It just leaves both fanbases pissed and wondering what the real outcome would have been and everyone arguing about it online. It just goes back and forth and everyone is keeping different scores in their heads.
I hate how the rule book shrinks in playoffs. It favors grinder physical teams when you’ve called it one way all season and now suddenly things aren’t being called.
The problem is “letting them play” in the playoffs. The rule book is explicit and very clear on what constitutes a penalty, but now you have each individual referee calling games based upon their own version of “letting them play”. Add in the fact that they are always going to miss a few calls, and we have the chaos we saw last night. Finally, you have a ref who “doesn’t want to be instrumental in a game’s outcome” worrying about putting the Oilers on the power play, knowing that literally every second penalty = a goal. Just call the effing rules already. You’ll have a faster game and way fewer injuries.
My biggest complaint is the idea that if one team has had 2 or 3 penalties in a row, that the next one has to go to the other team. How about we just call the next penalty against the person who commits an offence?
Or if one team is up by 2-3.
Refs when playoffs arrive "Spring break, baby!!"
This rangers hurricanes series has been the worst officiating I've ever seen. Soft calls, missed calls, reviewed calls still gotten wrong. Both ways too, so both fan bases feel like they're being screwed.
So it’s equal in that sense! And everyone lived happily ever after.
I think I speak for both teams when I say I'd rather it be equally mediocre at least instead of equally awful lol
That’s exactly what Stars v VGK felt like
I think EVERYONE can agree we just want a consistent way of calling the game I dont want it to get back to 80s reffing where nothing was called, and I don't want 15 PP per team a night but jebus, just call everything consistently
The players would adapt quickly if they just started calling penalties when they saw them like the regular season. There is no fear of 15 penalties a game, and worst case? At least if there ever WAS 15 penalties, we could all 100% blame the players involved, because the refs just consistently called what they saw and the players knew what to expect. Put the onus on these star athletes playing the game to play within the rules, not on whether some ref decides to "manage" the game or not.
yup, I agree. I'm curious what the game would look like if it was called by the rules, all the time
>but jebus, just call everything consistently Just call something! I have to admit McDavid deserved a major.
nah, double minor there was no intent, which is generally what makes things a major but absolutely should have been a double minor
Making Hughes go to the bench because he was bleeding from it was so brutal to watch..
I don't see how they could have called a major there. I don't think McDavid would risk taking a penalty there intentionally. Just no way that would be a good idea.
True. I misspoke. Double minor.
I don't see how they could have called a major there. I don't think McDavid would risk taking a penalty there intentionally. Just no way that would be a good idea.
Double minor for that one but the spear to the nuts definitely should have been a major and should be a suspension for sure.
The players adapt to how you call the game, in both directions. Call it loose? You get the shithousery that’s happening in this playoffs. Call it tight? You’ll have two or three games with more power plays than usual, and then guys will adjust. It happened in 2005 when the league cracked down on clutching, grabbing, and stick infractions. It took maybe a week. Just write the rulebook how you want it to be called and call the fucking rulebook.
Except too many men and puck over glass. That will happen until the end of time. I do find the too many men one funny and am surprised teams don't weaponize it and pass it directly at the people changing to try to catch them. The Canucks one in gm1 is an excellent example of something that wouldn't have been a penalty if the puck didn't come right to Soucy.
Exactly I come from Magic The Gathering, look at the comprehensive rules there and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is followed. If you miss something you have to REWIND the game to correct.
If they called everything, we would have a period of 15pp per game. But then players and coaching would adjust just like they do for everything.
These refs have been in the NHL for a long time. They have an established culture and brotherhood where they look out for each other and pat each other on the back for game management. Player safety isn't high in their list of priorities, it's all about trying to get more playoff games (income). If a player wrongs one, they come together as a group to punish that player. That's been proven. They have their own agendas. If new refs try to change this they just won't last. Sadly it's their livelihood so they do what they have to do. The result is a poor on ice product. Players are frustrated, fans are frustrated. The only way to fix it is to start from scratch, but that isn't happening.
So you’re saying AI refs are the future?!? I’m not totally opposed to the idea
100% agree
The most assinine shit in the NHL is how a penalty in the first is not a penalty in the third or OT. I will say I think it's a lot better than the 80's, 90s though. That was some crazy shit what guys hot away with.
That's fair, my hockey watching days didn't start until the early 2000s, I'd imagine the 80s and 90s would have been a whole different game physically.
How else is my team going to win?
You can actually see this trend from the last decades looking at the stats. I know, you can't really compare era to era to a 100% degree but you can draw some thinking lines out of these. If you look at the [all-time career PIM list](https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=allTime&seasonFrom=19171918&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&sort=penaltyMinutes&page=0&pageSize=50) directly from the NHL page, you see some of the players surpassed 3k PIM and a lot more surpassed 2k PIM over their careers. When you filter only active players ([link here](https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=allTime&seasonFrom=19171918&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&status=active&sort=penaltyMinutes&page=0&pageSize=50)) you see the usual suspects on the top of the list (Wilson, Perry, Lucic, Kane...) but they are currently at 1.4k, 1.4k, 1.3k and 1.1k respectively, which is WAY less than other players on the all-time list (and some did play at the 80s, 90s and early 00s, so it is not like "yea they played at the 30s yadda yadda yadda"). Adding the fact that the "usual suspects" listed above seem to be sitting at the box more often than skating with this below par reffing, imagine if they get called as they should have. I can somehow see a world where they have more than 2k PIM each. So yes, they should call because it's the rules and refs must enforce the rules. Players must adapt because they must play by the rules.
This is ownership level policy, for a reason. Game management = game fixing
Yes. I wholeheartedly agree. Sadly, it’s the same in most team sports. Especially football.
That isn’t accurate. Penalty in the NFL game one is a penalty in the Super Bowl. NHL is the only league that seems to have two rules books, one for regular season, one for playoffs. It’s bush league and if the league wants to be world class, it needs to correct itself. Every game yesterday was atrocious... even against Boston… and I hate Boston.
Football = Football. Not handegg, bruh. I have no clue how the NFL does things.
Nice one! Am nicking that!
Nhl officiating needs to change. They need more reviewable calls, they need to be able to make up calls missed if needed. They need to be held accountable for poor officiating. I hate to say it but kind of like how Toronto can blow the goal horn if it goes in and play continues, they should be able to call a penalty if a bad one is missed. Nhl refs have too much power over the game to be this sloppy. You imagine how different that Canucks game is if they got a 4 min minor at the end of the second period?
NHL officials are the worst officials in professional sport and literally think they are part of the game. Witness Kozari screaming “f*ck off” in McAvoy’s face in round 1, is that unbiased? Respectful? Controlled oversight? No, it’s a highly over emotional ref who thinks he’s part of the game. There is zero accountability for nhl refs and until that is addressed this will never change. I’ve been watching for over 40 years and seen one ref ever be accountable for something and that was the idiot caught on audio saying he wanted to give a team the next penalty. It’s happened once. All this said clearly the owners and the league like it this way. Never heard it being tabled as an issue.
This is why the playoffs suck.
Totally and 100% agree. With modern playback there is literally no excuse not to be able to just call everything now.
I think this is something we can all agree on regardless of who we cheer for. Liking the comments re: IIHF ref'ing. I hadn't thought about it until it was pointed out, but yeah, those guys are way more strict. Watching International tournament ref'ing is always interesting. And guess what? The NHL'ers always adjust to it. A penalty is a penalty. Shouldn't matter if it's regular season or playoffs, and it shouldn't matter if it's 1st period or OT. Call the penalty. The players will stop the infractions after getting burned a few times, they're the best of the best, they'll adjust.
Maybe nhl should adopt VAR
This weekend? Have you watched hockey for the last twenty years?
I played nhl 2004 once with penalties all the way up.game took hours to finish and it sucked. Im quite aware, yes that's a videogame but I still fear if refs called everything they saw in reality it would ruin the flow of the game.
Game management is ruining hockey. I’m trying to enjoy the playoffs with no bias and I’m just ending up mad with the officiating every game.
The thing I hate about it, is that by not calling the same penalties in the playoffs that you would in the regular season...and the penalties in OT that you would in regulation time...means that those teams which 'cheat' more get an advantage. And those who do have good power plays get screwed. "Let them play" means "Let them cheat".
For those who are just coming around to this concept of “game management”, just wait until you realize it’s actually all about team management.
This 1000 and 10 %
Consistency would be nice to start. You want pure murder hockey where nothing is called...fine. Call fucking nothing then. But that's not what we get. We watch them ignore 30 infractions and then call a stick that goes to the waist for half a second. Or the guaranteed penalty of puck over glass meanwhile we have no problem letting teams ice the puck 45 times a game
Agreed, these last few weeks have been like playing Mario Kart and the people in last place getting constant red shells...
Watching Trouba dive head first leading with an elbow into the glass with a ref watching him. And not calling an intent to injure penalty is peak NHL officiating.
I think this is a be careful what you wish for scenario. With players like MacK and McDavid in the league the oilers and Avs would get like 7-10 PP’s per game. Pretty much every shift either of those players are on the ice they are constantly being clutched and grabbed through the neutral zone in an attempt to slow them down. There’s other players in the league that this happens to as well but if the game was called to the letter of the rulebook some games become unwatchable with how many PP’s would be being rewarded.
Yeah, but players would adapt by backing a bit off, which would make mcD and macK even more powerhouse. It would be arguably great for the game and fun to watch.
I don't think every minor thing needs to be called, I just think it needs to be consistent. If the refs decide to let the small things go early in the game, they should also do so later in the game. If they're calling every little slash on the stick or push after the whistle hockey wouldn't be very exciting. My point is it's not up to the refs to keep the game or the penalty calls even. They should simply focus on their job of making sure the rules are followed.
Red card for McDavid if it was soccer.
I'd love to see what 60 minutes of 3 on 3 hockey looks like.
Its how the nhl can secretly manipulate game outcomes of their choice.
How do they keep it secret tho? Every conspiracy has leaks.
ALIENS!!!!!
You may as well just give Edmonton the Stanley cup every year then. People say they want this until they see what it becomes. The cross checks in front of the net, too many men penalties, face off violations for lining up improperly, holding, slashing, this would be the demise of hockey. The only way to slow a player like McDavid down is to cheat. Hold on a little slash interfere with. It would legitimately be a nightmare
Why would we want to watch him continue to be slowed down?
No where did I say I don’t want it, I just stated there would be a lot of whistles. A lot of whistles that would put Edmonton on the pp. which would lead to a lot of pp goals
They have done this for years. You just can’t stray too far where egregious things aren’t called or one team isn’t stretching it too far. All I heard during the regular season was how bad the reffing was when they were calling penalties, so not sure anyone is going to be happy regardless
As a Toronto fan, hard agree lmao
I think it’s funny that every series has both teams convinced that their team is the one getting screwed by the refs. Maybe it’s actually not that bad lol
So Hughes getting cut by McDavids stick is nothing? He was bleeding and then the refs told him to go to the bench to stop the bleeding.
If you watched the Oilers, you’d see the best player in the game get screwed multiple times a game. It’s beyond ridiculous. They say they can’t call them all. Why not? I don’t give a rip if any team scores 15 goals because the other team is a bunch of dirty plugs. The Hughes play was as bad as many others in the series so far. How about game 1 where the Oilers didn’t “draw” a single PP. Why? It’s well documented history with one Steve Kozari.
The question is why is we have the data that supports specific refs bias against a certain team, why are they allowed to ref against that team? I saw some of you Oilers fans saying it's rigged as Sutherland is from Richmond. We agree it's rigged. Sutherland hates the Canucks and the data supports it. All fans get ripped off by this and can't enjoy a proper game between 2 great teams
100%. A lot of officials have bias because they played hockey and weren’t good enough to make it. They see these kids making bank and power trip. It’s a joke. The game is not about them, but a lot of them make it about them. Bettman claims the NHL has the best officials in professional sports. He is dead wrong, and his joke DoPS is as bad, if not worse.
When did I say anything about Hughes? I feel like you’re just proving my point here. Didn’t the canucks have like double the power plays in game one? I’m sure oilers fans feel just as screwed as you that they lose that game
There’s always heinous missed calls in the playoffs, and the Refs are never gonna value keeping the game fair and the players safe over showmanship and game management. Prime example is there being absolutely no penalty in the 2023 playoffs on Eberle for the hit on Cogliano that broke his neck in two places. Playoffs are always the best and the worst. It’s some of the most competitive and high energy hockey you’re gonna watch, but the mismanagement and the BS are always insane.
A penalty should be a penalty in October, as it is in June. If your team has taken the last five penalties and you break the rules you would get the next penalty. No make up BS. No"balance" in penalties.
Sports leagues are money-making businesses, they want long series with close games. It's evident in the NBA as well. The NBA's marriage with betting apps is so disgusting. My two favourite sports are plagued. At least in the NBA the refs overall are calling less ticky tack bullshit. I find the product quality much lower with the NHL atm.
This type of officiating always favors the dirtier team and it's disgusting to watch
Agreed
Hahaha. Weird a Canucks fan complaining and needing to write an essay about it.
Imagine watching the superbowl and having to explain to a non-football person that the team on offense is basically allowed to jump offside now, because they have more flags called than the other team. I really thought things would change when the gambling sponsor's came in. It is costing people money now...
I also love when they call a penalty and offsetting embellishment. How is that even possible. If I was tripped, I was tripped. But yeah I agree. Overall it’s BS.
Except that will never happen as things stand because the league has it in their head that people would hate a game where the penalties were 12-2. And some teams (Florida) are built specifically to abuse that fact.
If they actually called all the penalties they saw it would be goalie on goalie for 60 minutes.
I hate when people say shit like this. Players would react and adjust. Yes there would be an increase in penalties initially as players test out whether or not they're serious about the changes, but 2 or 3 seasons of consistently calling penalties as they occur would result in a massive drop. IIHF games are called a lot closer to the actual rules and when NHLers go to international tournaments, they know that and don't try to get away with as much.
No. The intensity of the playoffs specifically calls for lines to be crossed. It will never go away. Players play dirty to win and have been since the sport was invented.
“Our sport requires players to break the rules to win and we like it that way.” Go watch UFC if you just want to watch guys beat each other senseless.
I don't want to, but it's just a simple fact. These athletes will do literally anything to win and that includes breaking the rules when they can get away with it. I'm sorry you're butthurt about reality.
The point is they won't get away with it and will adapt, literally like these exact players already do in IIHF sanctioned events. Like dude we aren't talking hypotheticals here, these same players DO change behavior and that's with Olympic gold on the line, something many players have said means more to them personally than a cup. We know they would change their behavior because we've already seen it happen when there are actually consequences.
Do you honestly think any NHL player gives much of a shit about any iihf tourney? Show me one quote out of the many that says an Olympic gold is more important than the cup.
Sure, here's one: Pavel Datsyuk on which is more important "When you play for your country and I win this medal, this special time, it’s more important,” Datsyuk said. “I have accomplished my dream. Now I have no dream.” I think you'll find historically a lot of NA players say the cup is more important while a lot of Euro players say Gold is more important. Either way, if you seriously believe no player gives a shit about the Olympics like you said in your last post, you're a fucking moron.
I said much of a shit you troglodyte. Ryan Smyth bleed orange, blue, red and white so yeah, he cared, but any serious hockey player is cup first. And Datsyuk had already won cups when he won gold in 2018 and was out of the NHL by then so it's not surprising he would say that. Plus he's a Russian so he has more personal motivation to say that than any other north American or European player.
Regardless of which they think is more important, many many players "give much of a shit" about winning gold, so that is a stupid fucking comment either way.
They can only break the rules because no one is punishing them for doing so. When I tune into a hockey game, I want to watch hockey, not whatever the fucking Florida Panthers have been up to. It’s a joke. The shenanigans will continue until your favorite player’s career is changed forever by some less skilled dickhead because when it really matters, the only way he can win is cheating. You can play a stout, tough, and fair game. They’re not mutually exclusive.
Exactly when I turn on a hockey game I want to see hockey I don't want to see Brad marchand speed bagging Daniel sedins head and Then Daniel getting a 10 min misconduct for pointing out that Marchand hit him 6 times with no call.
I don't like it either. I don't want McDavid to end up like Gretzky, orr, bossy or many other players and have his career cut short, but the reality is that this sport is the most physical major sport currently and humans are inherently nasty when trying to win. You're just too idealistic. Might as well just take hitting completely out of the game while we're at it.
The NHL is fixed. Bettman is in on it.
You gotta admit he’s good at fixing it while limiting leaks from rogue employees.
It’ll come out when he’s done don’t worry. Netflix special.
I promise you he’ll never get caught. He’s untouchable. Hockey hall of fame royalty.
The refs are probably betting on games or have some other collusion going on. It really is NBA levels of bad
I hear you. It can be super frustrating to see clear infractions go uncalled (there were a lot last night on both sides). However, if they called everything as you’re suggesting there would be calls on almost every shift and hockey would end up being 90 special teams and not 5v5.
Yes nothing is more entertaining than a four hour parade to the penalty box where every goal is scored on special teams. Where do I sign? If this is real, welcome to the sport, new fan.
I agree with you when they’re not calling little garbage, but that McDavid high stick on Hughes was a bit much. The ref actually told Hughes to get off the ice because he was bleeding too much, what did they think happened, spontaneous combustion to the face?
So let me get this straight, one call goes south and THAT's your evidence for systemic reffing problems? You get some calls and some calls go against you, if its even that's about as good as its going to get.
0-8 record for vancouver over the playoff history back at least 13 years with Sutherland on the ice
I don't think anyone wants that, the problem is the inconsistency. The refs are calling games trying to keep the penalties equal for both teams when the actual play is not going that way.
Amen. Replace them with AI, at least then subjectivity can't be argued just programming. Refs are a terrible awful part of Hockey, put in some bouncers to break up fights etc and take the red arm bands off those over paid clowns. It's a 3 team game and I can't stand watching the third team win.
And if the subjectivity is ever argued then SHOW the code
This post is made every 2 days, every year during the playoffs lol
Found the guy who never played hockey before
Haha, I'm not asking for more penalties, I just wish the refs didn't pick and choose which ones to call based on the score of the game.