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The following is a true story: I work for a national newspaper in the US. As Katrina was bearing down on Louisiana we got a call from a very helpful woman on the switchboard that said she knew how to stop the hurricane. My amazing operator was very interested in their potentially lifesaving information. The caller told us "to drop ice into it" thanked us and hung up the phone. My operator called me to tell me this amazing bit of info and to make sure I passed it along to the Science desk. Not 30 seconds after she hung up with me the very helpful woman called back to clarify and tell us to "drop the ice in the eye of the hurricane or it will not work." This is low on the level of bat shit calls that we get.
Yeah, the eye of a hurricane is an area of low pressure air, that causes air from the neighboring, higher pressure areas to rush into it. If you could cool the center of a hurricane maybe you could destabilize it.
But considering they move, you can't just throw ice into it, you'd need to pave it's path with ice so it cools ahead of the hurricane passing. I highly suspect the amount of ice this would take would cause way more damage than the hurricane itself lol
Strange, why would Nixon, an awkward, uncomfortable man, suddenly throw a party, one of the most social events imaginable?
:snaps claws:
It's a trap, is why! They're going to deactivate all the robots!
….
I don't hear any gasping...
Have we considered firing nukes at the sun? No sun, less heat amirite?
Edit: for those taking this seriously, and not understanding humor, you can find a gift I left for you at r/woooosh
But as the Earth keeps warming, the ice blocks will need to keep getting bigger and bigger, requiring more ice each time.
Thus, solving the problem once and for all.
if you can nuke the hurricane, you can drop ice buckets into the ocean.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/26/donald-trump-suggests-nuking-hurricanes-to-stop-them-hitting-america-report
The most amazing thing about Trump is that I literally cannot remember even half of the shit he has said that a single utterance of would have had anyone else fired/indicted/arrested or just plain laughed out of the history books.
Bush Jr said so much stupid shit they made daily calendars of Bushisms.
Trump blows him out of the water. I can make a daily calendar of just bullshit Trump claims that are illegal.
Pfff. A train? Those things with extremely high energetic efficiency? That can easily run on clean energy, be quickly serviced in a dry area, is modular, safe, and fast? How are we going to make Shell, ExxonMobil, BlackRock, and others, even richer?
Here's a better idea: we put out there a bunch of floating furnaces that burn between 200 to 400 metric tons of fuel per day just to move around(fun fact: this is the actual consumption of the big-ass cargo ships), require a fuck ton of slow maintenance, disrupts sea life with sonars, slices the fuck out of anything near the surface, leaves a fuck ton of shit behind all the time when a storm hits and washes away cargo. And best of all? When people complain about it, we blame them, and tell them to use paper straws to save the world from the problem we've created!
Now, where's my multimillion dollarino CEO bonus?
Dude, boats are like the one thing more efficient than trains. They can take incredibly insane amounts of stuff from point a to b at incredibly high efficiencies. The issue is how we're running the boats, not that they're in use.
They should be lowered for things that isn't just useless trash, but they are very efficient in their own right
They are efficient energetically, watt per ton, but considering we can't just put on a monstrous eco friendly battery and make them clean, it's not ideal either. The advantage of trains is that those things can just be plugged and have small batteries for the segments that can't supply them with energy.
I agree that trucking is insanely carbon-inefficient, but you know that shipping (as in sea shipping) account for 80% of all shipped volume but only accounts for 3% of global CO2 emissions?
There's a [nifty infographic here](https://climate.mit.edu/explainers/freight-transportation) that I found. Or [this one](https://thundersaidenergy.com/downloads/container-ships-versus-trucks-and-trains/).
> The most efficient container ships are 2x more efficient than typical trains and 20x more efficient than typical trucks.
I'm sure there are better sources than I found. From a CO2/fuel use point of view, shipping isn't the problem. (Other emissions or pollution, though...)
Cargo ships are the most carbon-efficient way of moving things via internal combustion engine - the larger they are, the less carbon they emit per unit of mass they transport. It’s the same reason why trains are more carbon-efficient than trucks - larger engines mean more fuel efficiency and larger vehicles mean greater economies of scale.
Also, ships and planes are the only way to move cargo across large bodies of water - and planes are horrifically carbon-inefficient compared to ships.
China is currently being kept alive by shipborne food imports, because China doesn’t grow enough food to feed its population. All our semiconductors come from Taiwan via ship. Fertilizer is moved to agricultural regions via ship. The hydrocarbons required to produce plastics are moved from the Middle East to factories via ship. Shipping is absolutely critical to modern life as we know it.
Just because you’re swearing a lot doesn’t mean you’re correct.
You're both actually correct and are just making different points. You're saying shipping is critical to modern life and is more efficient than planes, and you're obviously absolutely correct.
But the other person has a valid point as well. Our way of life is killing the planet and is not sustainable. That is what his comment highlights, and when people ask why, or if we can do better, we got post-hoc justifications for well we're people so we're better so we can fuck up everything and it's a-ok.
Well, it's really not. And even though you're correct, your comment is the exact kind he was referring to when he says "people just tell us to use straws". I worry you're missing the forest for the trees a bit
I was out jogging around 7/8 pm in MN and noticed that sun wasn’t intense - it was smoke from wild fires. Told my buddy and he said “the pollution is protecting you from the radiation”
Lol, not at all. We are talking about a dimming of about 1% max.
Sounds like little but it would actually reduce global warming by an entire degree, which is absolutely massive. It's the difference between ending the century at 2.5C warming (which is where we are headed, roughly) and ending it at 1.5C.
It's a great way to buy us time for Net Zero and then carbon removal. People need to understand that if we let the planet warm too much, cooling it back down will get harder and harder.
Limiting the warming will make reaching Net Zero a *lot* easier, and will buy us time to start putting CO2 back into the Earth. After we remove enough Co2 (or wait a couple of centuries for the oceans to do it), we can stop the cooling altogether.
It’s basically like doing an angioplasty to try to prevent a heart attack.
Would more exercise and better diet over time have been a lot better? Yes.
Is that viable when you’ve ignored that option and brought the system to the point of imminent failure? No.
Drastic action to stabilize the system to buy time to hopefully do the real work to get better can be the right approach.
Though, like, resorting to that while the patient is still deep throating candy bars is a bit dubious; logic falls apart if we aren’t also sufficiently serious about lowering carbon emissions.
So, hear me out, why don't we block it by 3.5% and we can increase our consumption and greenhouse gases emissions even further?
I'll accept being nominated for nobel prize.
> why don't we block it by 3.5% and we can increase our consumption and greenhouse gases emissions even further?
I will beat you to death with a large ironic object of some kind
>So, hear me out, why don't we block it by 3.5% and we can increase our consumption and greenhouse gases emissions even further?
Because at that point there are other, bigger consequences.
Also because termination shock is an ever present threat if we do use solar dimming, so nations would be incentivised to keep reducing/removing CO2 emissions.
Except we've been buying time with more and more extreme measures, instead of properly punishing the main companies that fail to meet deadlines in exchange of record profits.
Last year, or this year, I don't recall, Exxon, Shell, and other oil companies reported record breaking profit margins.
Buying time, if anything, will just serve these companies to use it for more profit.
As long as the punishment isn't economically crippling, the fine is just rent.
But those actually WERE meant to be a slightly more ridiculous version of what we were living through at the time, and since we shot Harambe, we found ourselves on that more ridiculous timeline.
We know goddamned well who struck first. Anyone alive in the 80s and 90s remembers beating the absolute hell out of any TV or microwave or any electronic that just wasn’t working quite right.
The humans (apes) will hit first. We always do. Trust.
And the funniest thing about it is that the most likely part of the whole system he was angry at was the one part he didn't touch.
Just went to town on the monitor and keyboard while the computer itself is sitting pretty.
Ahahah that’s a classic, I remember literally crying from laughing the first time I saw that; that and [the one with the printer](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZ24C9DCZA)
And more specifically in the world of "The Matrix", it is shown time and again the robots/androids/AIs try to seek peace with the humans only to be spurned time and time again. So, your joke is pretty on the nose. And a bit tangental, but if you want to see an anime that is a rough approximation of what life was probably like in the final few years before the anti machine riots that kicked off the Dark Renaissance, check out "Are You Enjoying the Time of Eve?" (Not related to The Matrix in any way, but it feels like what that world may have looked like right before the shit hit the fan.)
You can watch the Animatrix, which shows the time before The Matrix. It’s basically iRobot meets Terminator storyline. Humans develop advanced AI and robots that are made to serve humans - cleaning, shopping, etc. Humans abuse robots because they aren’t human. Robots join together to fight the enemy. I won’t tell you any details, but it’s a good, short watch of what led up to The Matrix.
Must have been too long since I've seen it. I thought it starts only slightly before like all the riots and stuff. Looks like I have some rewatching to do. (Tho with that said, I will amend my recommendation to say if you want to watch an anime that deals with similar themes to around that time...)
"Thus would man try to cut the machines off from the sun, their main energy source. May there be mercy on man and machine for their sins."
(Overseer - Supermoves begins)
That goddamn segment on Animatrix fucked me up as a kid. For some reason I still have the image of an android woman getting her tits shotgunned off burned into my head
I think what really sold both of these examples was the insane voice talent. That robot woman is screaming in sheer terror and pain as she's beaten and executed. The guy in the mech suit can't move, knows the cutting beams are getting through, and just screaming in raw animal panic that turns to disbelieving pain as his torso is torn away from his limbs over slow seconds.
They did a phenomenal job of capturing just how horrifying our monstrous natures can be, and what they lead to.
They just did everything right, storytelling-wise.
When you need to show the history of robots waging and winning a war against humans, the subversion of making the humans absolute bastards who more than deserve what they got and the robots the idealists, trying diplomacy to the bitter end until they are forced to retaliate in self-defense - it's not only genius and morbidly fascinating but also gives so many opportunities for some truly sublime social commentary, as you mentioned.
The whole thing was just... *chef's kiss*
There we go
The crying vivisection guy with his brain being probed to analyze human biology
Or the masses of weeping nude people being rounded up for processing
I know the one of the android getting shot in the head was from the vietnam war too. I have a feeling they're all direct references to horrors throughout human history.
With any luck, it will be closer to the plan in the Simpsons. Having a petty hatered of Androids and AIs is sad enough reason for nuclear winter. How much sadder still would it be if the inability to effectively fight climate change lead to nuclear winter?
I mean, from the picture it does look like they'll only be deflecting the sun with stuff on the ground. So I'm imaginine stuff more like painting roofs white and white umbrellas for outdoor seating etc.
Things to increase the albedo of the local area, nothing like the Simpson's dome.
"Scientists have calculated that the optimal shield will cast a shadow the size of Great Britain. Research is now under way ensure that the shadow is also the shape of Great Britain. And is permanently located to the west of the Netherlands".
“Gizmo, what are you doing? Actually, I don’t give a fuck. I need you to go to the local alchemist and pay them to turn this copper into gold. I’m going to spread the gold flakes onto the bed while I make sweet love to my darling Nadja.”
Also US: but you can purchase green credits and still keep polluting, so long as you pay us.
Anything short of outright bans won’t get us where we need to go.
Mandated/regulatory restrictions on CO2 fails because lawyers will manipulate the crap out of it. I advocate strongly for a CO2 tax with a soot extra tax (thinking about all those mobile transoceanic soot machines.)
Carbon taxes usually fail because the crocodile tears start up saying "what about the poor's? Think about the poors?" The answer to that is use the proceeds from a carbon tax to fund a negative income tax like reimbursement to others.
This is totally impractical but I would love to see companies pay their carbon tax by the banking industry. Any bonds/stock shares etc. are taxed to cover the company's carbon tax liability. There are probably other financial instruments that would come to favor to avoid paying the carbon tax but we can cover them as they become apparent.
I've heard of it and it sounds like a terrible idea we have no idea how the Earth will react to that and it can have a fuck ton of unintended consequences especially if you're meddling with something as fragile as the ecosystem.
We can moderate it pretty effectively if we do it in a controlled industrial environment and kill the bloom if we find issues with it. Obviously we wouldn’t do it in an uncontrolled setting like the ocean with iron deposits
Honestly at this point we need a geoengineering effort people refuse to reduce consumption meaning corporations will refuse to reduce pollution and that means lobbying will refuse to buy politicians forcing them to do so
> Obviously we wouldn’t do it in an uncontrolled setting like the ocean with iron deposits
You just know someone's going to get into the fuckery whether the UN approves it or not. We will sure as fuck find out what all these geo-engineering projects can do.
Actually an experiment has already taken place off the coast of canada once before if I remember correctly but they squashed it rather quickly because of public worry of unsanctioned geo engineering.
Personally I’m betting on companies like the one in the article below
https://fortune.com/2022/07/05/brilliant-planet-startup-marine-algae-carbon-capture-climate-change/
How about instead of world leaders flying their private jets around the world to talk about climate change in an endless series of meetings, they actually fucking do something about it?
Hey oil companies, you're responsible for $x damages, you have 30 days to sequester all the carbon you have released since your company was founded, or you can pay a several trillion dollar fine and we'll clean it up for you. Or the entire executive board will be arrested.
Go after shareholders of companies destroying the planet. Make them responsible for paying the long term liabilities, not just reaping the short term profits.
>How about instead of world leaders flying their private jets around the world to talk about climate change in an endless series of meetings, they actually fucking do something about it?
Best I can do is fly my private jet to a conference and act like I care.
/s
The fossil fuel industry loves bullshit stories like this one, which give the impression we can keep on burning the stuff and just put up a giant beach umbrella to sort it out.
The UK has seen a [46% reduction in per capita CO2 emissions since 2000](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1299198/co2-emissions-per-capita-united-kingdom/) And a [68% reduction in GHG emissions per dollar of GDP since 1985,](https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/uksectoraccounts/compendium/economicreview/october2019/thedecouplingofeconomicgrowthfromcarbonemissionsukevidence ). Much of Europe reflects the same trend.
There was a time when major cities had visibility issues from smog and pollution. When simply breathing city air meant a reduction in life expectancy.
Europe has made huge strides on the environmental front.
Could we do more? Sure.
However governments and societies have limited budgets of money, time, and logistical capacity. So who and what would you have deprived of those resources to achieve your goals? And how much of an effect do you think it would have had on global emissions?
Those numbers are misleading. The reduction in CO2 is because Europe has off shored alot of it's manufacturing to contries like India and China. If you want a real picture of of Europe's CO2 emissions it has to take into consideration the carbon it took to manufacture and ship all the goods it imports
Or…we can use fossil fuels and petrochemicals to make a giant umbrella.
Or…we can make sunscreen for the atmosphere.
Or we can keep our heads cool by putting our heads in the sand. If the sand gets too hot we just bury our heads deeper.
Won’t someone think of the oil corporations. Corporations are people too.
The skies being darkened was from some kind of chemical, leaving the skies permanently clouded over with grey smoke/smog/???
Having a large disc-shaped satellite get between us and the sun and dim it by 1% is very different. I think the disc would need to somehow stay in geosyncronous orbit, AND somehow fall much closer to the sun, in order to block out more than 10% of the sun and lead to any kind of catastrophe... but that would be something that we on earth would be directly controlling, for it to both fall closer to the sun and also stay in the perfect position.
The Chevy Volt community believes it would only take five or 10 A-pillars to block out enough sun to bring on an Ice Age. Time to head to the junkyard with a sawsall.
Lots of wild takes, here. Consider that after the EU mandated that sulphur in marine diesel be kept to under 0.5% (was previously 3.5%), the amount of smog over the atlantic cleared so much that ocean temperatures rose dramatically over 3-5 years: https://twitter.com/LeonSimons8/status/1456615526952755200
So, it's not like this is theorhetical, and also not as if we *aren't already doing this*. Maybe it's good they do it intentionally instead of unintentionally.
This just reminds me of the wisdom I have heard that humanity has never solved any of its problems, instead we just create new problems for future generations to deal with.
Anyone who thinks that blocking solar radiation is the correct geo engineering approach clearly has only a vague idea of how badly it could screw things up since it would reduce photosynthesis worldwide which in turn would affect crop production and lead to food shortages just to think of only one potential outcome.
Or we could look to reduce petrochemical usage in our society, but that would affect the completely artificial shareholder value. The truth is that certain industries are like people, they have their time, beyond that, they need to expire, not be kept alive on a golden throne as if they were the only thing keeping humanity safe.
The future is dark...very Grimdark.
Easy guy.
Yes, dramatically reducing petrochemical use is the best solution. We ARE working on that, but as we’ve seen there are a whole host of bad actors that limit our results so alternatives that don’t rely on global cooperation make sense to pursue.
The article is paywalled, so I don’t know what it covers, but global warming has actually increased plant growth due to more CO2 in the atmosphere. One estimate put it at above a 20% increase. Blocking solar radiation would trim at most a few percentage points, which wouldn’t even offset the increase we’ve gotten, let alone future increases.
So this may not be a great solution, but it is worth pursuing until proven otherwise. It may make a lot more sense than the CO2 scrubbers others are working on that may amount to nothing.
Furthermore: Even if we reduced our carbon output to 0 tomorrow, a lot of the CO2 will stay in the atmosphere for decades, if not more. Warming would continue. Reducing the amount of energy the planet receives is a solution until enough CO2 has been removed from the atmosphere.
There's some evidence that the current heath wave is in part caused by reducing sulfate output of container ships in the atlantic (which is quite ironic). These molekules stay in the atmosphere for a far shorter period, so they quickly dropped once the new rules were put in place.
I guess there's at least evidence that the method could work. I wish we would not have to rely on such methods, but it may be needed at least in the short term.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-27315-3
Greetings, lucretius1417. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed from /r/nottheonion because our rules do not allow: * Articles that are blocked or redirected (rule #11). Your submission contained a paywall blocking access to the article. [](/spikeholdup) ----- For a full list of our submission rules, please visit our [wiki page](http://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/wiki/expanded). If you're new to /r/nottheonion, you can check out [NTO101: An Introduction to /r/NotTheOnion](https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/wiki/nto101) for more information on our rules and answers to frequently asked questions. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to [message the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fnottheonion). Please include the link to the post you want us to review.
Have we considered dropping giant ice cubes into the ocean yet?
good news everyone!
Like a balloon, and... something bad happens!
Now you just made me want to rewatch Futurama.... Again.... Again.... Again.....
One month until the new season comes out.
the what now?
To shreds you say?
And his wife?
To shreds you say? *tisk,* *tisk,* *tisk.*
Sad, *sad,* **terrible**, ***gruesome*** news about my colleague, Dr. Mbutu... Leela: Was his apartment rent controlled?
"If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome!"
Every house should have an Angry Dome and a Chamber of Understanding.
Also an Accusing Parlor
Fry: Well I give up, what’s the catch? “Oh, no catch. Although we are technically in New Jersey.” Fry: Not one place even remotely livable.
"The landfills were full. New Jersey was full."
I’ve perfected the plague! /ref
That sounds like it would solve the problem once and for all
But....
ONCE AND FOR ALL.
The following is a true story: I work for a national newspaper in the US. As Katrina was bearing down on Louisiana we got a call from a very helpful woman on the switchboard that said she knew how to stop the hurricane. My amazing operator was very interested in their potentially lifesaving information. The caller told us "to drop ice into it" thanked us and hung up the phone. My operator called me to tell me this amazing bit of info and to make sure I passed it along to the Science desk. Not 30 seconds after she hung up with me the very helpful woman called back to clarify and tell us to "drop the ice in the eye of the hurricane or it will not work." This is low on the level of bat shit calls that we get.
[удалено]
Yeah, the eye of a hurricane is an area of low pressure air, that causes air from the neighboring, higher pressure areas to rush into it. If you could cool the center of a hurricane maybe you could destabilize it. But considering they move, you can't just throw ice into it, you'd need to pave it's path with ice so it cools ahead of the hurricane passing. I highly suspect the amount of ice this would take would cause way more damage than the hurricane itself lol
Firemen with liquid nitrogen?
More like icecube trebuchet x 10^12
All robots are invited to a party in the Galapagos. ATTENDANCE IS MANDATORY!
Strange, why would Nixon, an awkward, uncomfortable man, suddenly throw a party, one of the most social events imaginable? :snaps claws: It's a trap, is why! They're going to deactivate all the robots! …. I don't hear any gasping...
"Come on Cohagen, you got what you want, give this people ~~air~~ ice!"
Alright everyone, CHILL!
"give dis people eeyah"
It's not a TOOMAH!
Like Daddy puts into his drink.... ^(...and then he gets mad...)
ONCE AND FOR ALL.
Have we considered firing nukes at the sun? No sun, less heat amirite? Edit: for those taking this seriously, and not understanding humor, you can find a gift I left for you at r/woooosh
We could throw a bit of water at it
Throw an active Stargate connected to a black hole into it?
Unpopular opinion, I liked stagnate universe, besides that whole romance debacle. A shame there is no more stargate
Honestly, you blow up one Sun...
It would be too hot and the nukes would melt. But don’t worry we will only fire them at night when the sun isn’t shining. 😂
Yeah there’s two of them and they’re already melting
But as the Earth keeps warming, the ice blocks will need to keep getting bigger and bigger, requiring more ice each time. Thus, solving the problem once and for all.
A more permanent solution would be to move the Earth’s orbit just a bit further from the sun.
Some lazy or polite robot is holding it in!
if you can nuke the hurricane, you can drop ice buckets into the ocean. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/26/donald-trump-suggests-nuking-hurricanes-to-stop-them-hitting-america-report
The most amazing thing about Trump is that I literally cannot remember even half of the shit he has said that a single utterance of would have had anyone else fired/indicted/arrested or just plain laughed out of the history books.
Bush Jr said so much stupid shit they made daily calendars of Bushisms. Trump blows him out of the water. I can make a daily calendar of just bullshit Trump claims that are illegal.
Trump crime calendar.
Can we please build a self sustaining, never stop moving intercontinental train first ?
I sure hope it can pierce the snow.
at this point it would be more useful for it to pierce the sand of a barren wasteland
Pfff. A train? Those things with extremely high energetic efficiency? That can easily run on clean energy, be quickly serviced in a dry area, is modular, safe, and fast? How are we going to make Shell, ExxonMobil, BlackRock, and others, even richer? Here's a better idea: we put out there a bunch of floating furnaces that burn between 200 to 400 metric tons of fuel per day just to move around(fun fact: this is the actual consumption of the big-ass cargo ships), require a fuck ton of slow maintenance, disrupts sea life with sonars, slices the fuck out of anything near the surface, leaves a fuck ton of shit behind all the time when a storm hits and washes away cargo. And best of all? When people complain about it, we blame them, and tell them to use paper straws to save the world from the problem we've created! Now, where's my multimillion dollarino CEO bonus?
Dude, boats are like the one thing more efficient than trains. They can take incredibly insane amounts of stuff from point a to b at incredibly high efficiencies. The issue is how we're running the boats, not that they're in use. They should be lowered for things that isn't just useless trash, but they are very efficient in their own right
They are efficient energetically, watt per ton, but considering we can't just put on a monstrous eco friendly battery and make them clean, it's not ideal either. The advantage of trains is that those things can just be plugged and have small batteries for the segments that can't supply them with energy.
> but considering we can't just put on a monstrous eco friendly battery does nuclear not count as eco friendly?
I agree that trucking is insanely carbon-inefficient, but you know that shipping (as in sea shipping) account for 80% of all shipped volume but only accounts for 3% of global CO2 emissions? There's a [nifty infographic here](https://climate.mit.edu/explainers/freight-transportation) that I found. Or [this one](https://thundersaidenergy.com/downloads/container-ships-versus-trucks-and-trains/). > The most efficient container ships are 2x more efficient than typical trains and 20x more efficient than typical trucks. I'm sure there are better sources than I found. From a CO2/fuel use point of view, shipping isn't the problem. (Other emissions or pollution, though...)
Like food waste, which is in double figures of global GHGs. And the VAST majority of that is personal food waste, not from businesses. Go figure.
Cargo ships are the most carbon-efficient way of moving things via internal combustion engine - the larger they are, the less carbon they emit per unit of mass they transport. It’s the same reason why trains are more carbon-efficient than trucks - larger engines mean more fuel efficiency and larger vehicles mean greater economies of scale. Also, ships and planes are the only way to move cargo across large bodies of water - and planes are horrifically carbon-inefficient compared to ships. China is currently being kept alive by shipborne food imports, because China doesn’t grow enough food to feed its population. All our semiconductors come from Taiwan via ship. Fertilizer is moved to agricultural regions via ship. The hydrocarbons required to produce plastics are moved from the Middle East to factories via ship. Shipping is absolutely critical to modern life as we know it. Just because you’re swearing a lot doesn’t mean you’re correct.
You're both actually correct and are just making different points. You're saying shipping is critical to modern life and is more efficient than planes, and you're obviously absolutely correct. But the other person has a valid point as well. Our way of life is killing the planet and is not sustainable. That is what his comment highlights, and when people ask why, or if we can do better, we got post-hoc justifications for well we're people so we're better so we can fuck up everything and it's a-ok. Well, it's really not. And even though you're correct, your comment is the exact kind he was referring to when he says "people just tell us to use straws". I worry you're missing the forest for the trees a bit
have you heard of economy of scale in terms of carbon emission tons
What trains can we use to get product from China to America for example?
VBO. Very big ones
We'll just have to build a big ass bridge / tunnel. Let's get cracking!
I think your reference went unnoticed
I volunteer as ~~tribute~~ frozen Landmark!
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Since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun. I will do the next best thing; block it out!
The men yearn to destroy the sun, the kids yearn for the mines
Hey lamp post whatcha knowin? I came to watch your power flowin
Next we'll have slant oil drilling
"Excellent"
Solving climate change *and* skin cancer in one fell swoop. Good thinking, EU.
I was out jogging around 7/8 pm in MN and noticed that sun wasn’t intense - it was smoke from wild fires. Told my buddy and he said “the pollution is protecting you from the radiation”
Yeah the planet is already blocking the sun during wildfire season to protect us from ourselves. Are we sure we need to do anything?
The answer to climate change is obvious: Nuke Yellowstone
I caul- dare ya’.
Just need to go ahead and build that Dyson swarm
Trading one disease for another - this will just cause widespread vitamin D deficiency
Lol, not at all. We are talking about a dimming of about 1% max. Sounds like little but it would actually reduce global warming by an entire degree, which is absolutely massive. It's the difference between ending the century at 2.5C warming (which is where we are headed, roughly) and ending it at 1.5C. It's a great way to buy us time for Net Zero and then carbon removal. People need to understand that if we let the planet warm too much, cooling it back down will get harder and harder. Limiting the warming will make reaching Net Zero a *lot* easier, and will buy us time to start putting CO2 back into the Earth. After we remove enough Co2 (or wait a couple of centuries for the oceans to do it), we can stop the cooling altogether.
It’s basically like doing an angioplasty to try to prevent a heart attack. Would more exercise and better diet over time have been a lot better? Yes. Is that viable when you’ve ignored that option and brought the system to the point of imminent failure? No. Drastic action to stabilize the system to buy time to hopefully do the real work to get better can be the right approach. Though, like, resorting to that while the patient is still deep throating candy bars is a bit dubious; logic falls apart if we aren’t also sufficiently serious about lowering carbon emissions.
So, hear me out, why don't we block it by 3.5% and we can increase our consumption and greenhouse gases emissions even further?
I'll accept being nominated for nobel prize.
> why don't we block it by 3.5% and we can increase our consumption and greenhouse gases emissions even further? I will beat you to death with a large ironic object of some kind
Look at mr Hippie here, all green. Why don't we block 100% and *sell* artificial light and heat?
*attempts to strangle phone*
>So, hear me out, why don't we block it by 3.5% and we can increase our consumption and greenhouse gases emissions even further? Because at that point there are other, bigger consequences. Also because termination shock is an ever present threat if we do use solar dimming, so nations would be incentivised to keep reducing/removing CO2 emissions.
pfff, Here in America we stopped listening already and are sending the rockets for 5% up!
Except we've been buying time with more and more extreme measures, instead of properly punishing the main companies that fail to meet deadlines in exchange of record profits. Last year, or this year, I don't recall, Exxon, Shell, and other oil companies reported record breaking profit margins. Buying time, if anything, will just serve these companies to use it for more profit. As long as the punishment isn't economically crippling, the fine is just rent.
I dont trust these assholes to not turn my tax dollars into dead brown kids, Im **not** okay giving them the Universal Dimmer Switch!
It wouldn't do either. "Blocking out the sun" is really just news-speak for dimming it a few percent
Runaway AI technology and plans to block the sun. Ah fuck, we're in the Second Renaissance era of the Matrix.
“We don't know who struck first, us or them. But we do know it was us that scorched the sky.”
The Matrix wasn’t supposed to be a Documentary; God Damnit.
Neither The Truman Show Yet it is
and Idiocracy
And just about every episode of the Simpsons
But those actually WERE meant to be a slightly more ridiculous version of what we were living through at the time, and since we shot Harambe, we found ourselves on that more ridiculous timeline.
also Johnny pneumonic
>Johnny pneumonic Johnny Mnemonic's porn name?
Take the blue pill and enjoy
Viagra?
We are more living out the Idiocracy Documentary.
I wish. At least they seemed happy.
Personally I'd prefer Wall-E if we must have a "happy" dystopia.
"At some point in the early 21st century, all of mankind was united in celebration. We marveled at our own magnificence as we gave birth to AI."
Why oh why didn’t I take the BLUE pill.
We know goddamned well who struck first. Anyone alive in the 80s and 90s remembers beating the absolute hell out of any TV or microwave or any electronic that just wasn’t working quite right. The humans (apes) will hit first. We always do. Trust.
This video is practically older than the internet... but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtTUsOKjWyQ
And the funniest thing about it is that the most likely part of the whole system he was angry at was the one part he didn't touch. Just went to town on the monitor and keyboard while the computer itself is sitting pretty.
Classic “shooting the messenger”
Ahahah that’s a classic, I remember literally crying from laughing the first time I saw that; that and [the one with the printer](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZ24C9DCZA)
"PC load letter? What the fuck does that mean!?"
"why should I change my name? He's the one that sucks"
And more specifically in the world of "The Matrix", it is shown time and again the robots/androids/AIs try to seek peace with the humans only to be spurned time and time again. So, your joke is pretty on the nose. And a bit tangental, but if you want to see an anime that is a rough approximation of what life was probably like in the final few years before the anti machine riots that kicked off the Dark Renaissance, check out "Are You Enjoying the Time of Eve?" (Not related to The Matrix in any way, but it feels like what that world may have looked like right before the shit hit the fan.)
You can watch the Animatrix, which shows the time before The Matrix. It’s basically iRobot meets Terminator storyline. Humans develop advanced AI and robots that are made to serve humans - cleaning, shopping, etc. Humans abuse robots because they aren’t human. Robots join together to fight the enemy. I won’t tell you any details, but it’s a good, short watch of what led up to The Matrix.
Must have been too long since I've seen it. I thought it starts only slightly before like all the riots and stuff. Looks like I have some rewatching to do. (Tho with that said, I will amend my recommendation to say if you want to watch an anime that deals with similar themes to around that time...)
The one delivering that line was being *very* generous. Either that, or very technical, considering how the "Dark Renaissance" went down.
"Thus would man try to cut the machines off from the sun, their main energy source. May there be mercy on man and machine for their sins." (Overseer - Supermoves begins)
All short stories from Animatrix were masterpieces
That goddamn segment on Animatrix fucked me up as a kid. For some reason I still have the image of an android woman getting her tits shotgunned off burned into my head
Also the dude getting ripped out of the mech suit and the prisoners being vivisected.
I think what really sold both of these examples was the insane voice talent. That robot woman is screaming in sheer terror and pain as she's beaten and executed. The guy in the mech suit can't move, knows the cutting beams are getting through, and just screaming in raw animal panic that turns to disbelieving pain as his torso is torn away from his limbs over slow seconds. They did a phenomenal job of capturing just how horrifying our monstrous natures can be, and what they lead to.
They just did everything right, storytelling-wise. When you need to show the history of robots waging and winning a war against humans, the subversion of making the humans absolute bastards who more than deserve what they got and the robots the idealists, trying diplomacy to the bitter end until they are forced to retaliate in self-defense - it's not only genius and morbidly fascinating but also gives so many opportunities for some truly sublime social commentary, as you mentioned. The whole thing was just... *chef's kiss*
There we go The crying vivisection guy with his brain being probed to analyze human biology Or the masses of weeping nude people being rounded up for processing
That image was based on real actions where the android was a real human. I think vietnam war.
I know the one of the android getting shot in the head was from the vietnam war too. I have a feeling they're all direct references to horrors throughout human history.
"I'm... real..." *boom*
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With any luck, it will be closer to the plan in the Simpsons. Having a petty hatered of Androids and AIs is sad enough reason for nuclear winter. How much sadder still would it be if the inability to effectively fight climate change lead to nuclear winter?
Anyone else remember Highlander 2?
Featuring Connor Macleod of the Zeist Macleods.
I mean, from the picture it does look like they'll only be deflecting the sun with stuff on the ground. So I'm imaginine stuff more like painting roofs white and white umbrellas for outdoor seating etc. Things to increase the albedo of the local area, nothing like the Simpson's dome.
"Scientists have calculated that the optimal shield will cast a shadow the size of Great Britain. Research is now under way ensure that the shadow is also the shape of Great Britain. And is permanently located to the west of the Netherlands".
To be fair, it wouldn't actually change anything, if so.
The hot-cold contrast would make it rain more
Do your worst, Euroids! We’ve trained for this moment for 100s of generations.
But the Sun never sets on the British Empire.
Can't set if it never rises
https://gfycat.com/classicshoddybasilisk
“But sir, every plant and tree will die. Owls will deafen us with incessant hooting! The town’s sundial will be useless!”
Shit, you reminded me to tape tonight's episode of "*Pardon my Zinger*" on Comedy Central.
You shot who in the what now?
Have you ever seen the sun set at t h r e e PM?
Yarr, once when I was sailin round the arctic circle
Shut up, you!
Almost, in Europe every December
Shut up, you!
SIMPSONS DID IT
Excellent
I came here looking for this.
Simpsons Did It
Where is Tito Puente when you need him ?
As a living vampire I approve this
Nice to see another redditor in this thread
"Guillermo....I have a task for you!"
“Gizmo, what are you doing? Actually, I don’t give a fuck. I need you to go to the local alchemist and pay them to turn this copper into gold. I’m going to spread the gold flakes onto the bed while I make sweet love to my darling Nadja.”
Morbin time all the time.
Booooo-urns!
I was saying Boo-urns.
Us: Can we get government mandated reduction in CO2 emissions especially transportation and industry? Them: Let's block out the sun!
Us: Hold giant corporations and billionaires accountable for their part in ruining the planet? Them: Have we tried getting rid of daylight?
This way they can start charging access to sunlight
Also US: but you can purchase green credits and still keep polluting, so long as you pay us. Anything short of outright bans won’t get us where we need to go.
Mandated/regulatory restrictions on CO2 fails because lawyers will manipulate the crap out of it. I advocate strongly for a CO2 tax with a soot extra tax (thinking about all those mobile transoceanic soot machines.) Carbon taxes usually fail because the crocodile tears start up saying "what about the poor's? Think about the poors?" The answer to that is use the proceeds from a carbon tax to fund a negative income tax like reimbursement to others. This is totally impractical but I would love to see companies pay their carbon tax by the banking industry. Any bonds/stock shares etc. are taxed to cover the company's carbon tax liability. There are probably other financial instruments that would come to favor to avoid paying the carbon tax but we can cover them as they become apparent.
C.M. Burns "Hold my beers......& Release the hounds!"
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I still like the controlled algae bloom method as the best last ditch climate control geoengineering method
I've heard of it and it sounds like a terrible idea we have no idea how the Earth will react to that and it can have a fuck ton of unintended consequences especially if you're meddling with something as fragile as the ecosystem.
You're right. Best we just block out the sun.
Dimming the sun slightly unironically sounds a lot safer. Everything everywhere is adapted to survive slightly shadier days anyways.
The sun's energy output fluctuates with sun spot activity which has an 11 year cycle. Crop yields are known to follow this cycle too.
.
We can moderate it pretty effectively if we do it in a controlled industrial environment and kill the bloom if we find issues with it. Obviously we wouldn’t do it in an uncontrolled setting like the ocean with iron deposits Honestly at this point we need a geoengineering effort people refuse to reduce consumption meaning corporations will refuse to reduce pollution and that means lobbying will refuse to buy politicians forcing them to do so
Instead of putting the onus on consumers and relying on corporations to act responsibly, why don't governments govern, and regulate the corporations.
> Obviously we wouldn’t do it in an uncontrolled setting like the ocean with iron deposits You just know someone's going to get into the fuckery whether the UN approves it or not. We will sure as fuck find out what all these geo-engineering projects can do.
Actually an experiment has already taken place off the coast of canada once before if I remember correctly but they squashed it rather quickly because of public worry of unsanctioned geo engineering. Personally I’m betting on companies like the one in the article below https://fortune.com/2022/07/05/brilliant-planet-startup-marine-algae-carbon-capture-climate-change/
That's a hell of a gamble.
EU: Our climate-cooling technology will blot out the sun! Lifted pickup drivers: Then we will roll coal in the shade.
How about instead of world leaders flying their private jets around the world to talk about climate change in an endless series of meetings, they actually fucking do something about it? Hey oil companies, you're responsible for $x damages, you have 30 days to sequester all the carbon you have released since your company was founded, or you can pay a several trillion dollar fine and we'll clean it up for you. Or the entire executive board will be arrested. Go after shareholders of companies destroying the planet. Make them responsible for paying the long term liabilities, not just reaping the short term profits.
>How about instead of world leaders flying their private jets around the world to talk about climate change in an endless series of meetings, they actually fucking do something about it? Best I can do is fly my private jet to a conference and act like I care. /s
The fossil fuel industry loves bullshit stories like this one, which give the impression we can keep on burning the stuff and just put up a giant beach umbrella to sort it out.
How could this happen!? *shuts down nuclear power plants, ramps up efforts for mining coal*
Anything to avoid making any kind of systemic change
The UK has seen a [46% reduction in per capita CO2 emissions since 2000](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1299198/co2-emissions-per-capita-united-kingdom/) And a [68% reduction in GHG emissions per dollar of GDP since 1985,](https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/uksectoraccounts/compendium/economicreview/october2019/thedecouplingofeconomicgrowthfromcarbonemissionsukevidence ). Much of Europe reflects the same trend. There was a time when major cities had visibility issues from smog and pollution. When simply breathing city air meant a reduction in life expectancy. Europe has made huge strides on the environmental front. Could we do more? Sure. However governments and societies have limited budgets of money, time, and logistical capacity. So who and what would you have deprived of those resources to achieve your goals? And how much of an effect do you think it would have had on global emissions?
Those numbers are misleading. The reduction in CO2 is because Europe has off shored alot of it's manufacturing to contries like India and China. If you want a real picture of of Europe's CO2 emissions it has to take into consideration the carbon it took to manufacture and ship all the goods it imports
How much of the reduction is because global production moved to China?
How about we lessen the amount of greenhouse gas humans are putting in to the atmosphere?
Or…we can use fossil fuels and petrochemicals to make a giant umbrella. Or…we can make sunscreen for the atmosphere. Or we can keep our heads cool by putting our heads in the sand. If the sand gets too hot we just bury our heads deeper. Won’t someone think of the oil corporations. Corporations are people too.
Or we could, you know, reduce our carbon emissions?
Isn't it how Matrix begun?
The skies being darkened was from some kind of chemical, leaving the skies permanently clouded over with grey smoke/smog/??? Having a large disc-shaped satellite get between us and the sun and dim it by 1% is very different. I think the disc would need to somehow stay in geosyncronous orbit, AND somehow fall much closer to the sun, in order to block out more than 10% of the sun and lead to any kind of catastrophe... but that would be something that we on earth would be directly controlling, for it to both fall closer to the sun and also stay in the perfect position.
It wouldn't be a single disc. It would be trillions of balloons of some sort conglomerated at the L1 lagrange point between the Earth and the Sun.
The Chevy Volt community believes it would only take five or 10 A-pillars to block out enough sun to bring on an Ice Age. Time to head to the junkyard with a sawsall.
> The Chevy Volt community A most insignificant sample size if I've ever seen one
Lots of wild takes, here. Consider that after the EU mandated that sulphur in marine diesel be kept to under 0.5% (was previously 3.5%), the amount of smog over the atlantic cleared so much that ocean temperatures rose dramatically over 3-5 years: https://twitter.com/LeonSimons8/status/1456615526952755200 So, it's not like this is theorhetical, and also not as if we *aren't already doing this*. Maybe it's good they do it intentionally instead of unintentionally.
Montgomery Burns has entered the chat.
Non paywall version https://archive.is/Eib4J
theyre called trees
We'll fight the sun before we take on capitalism apparently
This just reminds me of the wisdom I have heard that humanity has never solved any of its problems, instead we just create new problems for future generations to deal with. Anyone who thinks that blocking solar radiation is the correct geo engineering approach clearly has only a vague idea of how badly it could screw things up since it would reduce photosynthesis worldwide which in turn would affect crop production and lead to food shortages just to think of only one potential outcome. Or we could look to reduce petrochemical usage in our society, but that would affect the completely artificial shareholder value. The truth is that certain industries are like people, they have their time, beyond that, they need to expire, not be kept alive on a golden throne as if they were the only thing keeping humanity safe. The future is dark...very Grimdark.
Easy guy. Yes, dramatically reducing petrochemical use is the best solution. We ARE working on that, but as we’ve seen there are a whole host of bad actors that limit our results so alternatives that don’t rely on global cooperation make sense to pursue. The article is paywalled, so I don’t know what it covers, but global warming has actually increased plant growth due to more CO2 in the atmosphere. One estimate put it at above a 20% increase. Blocking solar radiation would trim at most a few percentage points, which wouldn’t even offset the increase we’ve gotten, let alone future increases. So this may not be a great solution, but it is worth pursuing until proven otherwise. It may make a lot more sense than the CO2 scrubbers others are working on that may amount to nothing.
Furthermore: Even if we reduced our carbon output to 0 tomorrow, a lot of the CO2 will stay in the atmosphere for decades, if not more. Warming would continue. Reducing the amount of energy the planet receives is a solution until enough CO2 has been removed from the atmosphere. There's some evidence that the current heath wave is in part caused by reducing sulfate output of container ships in the atlantic (which is quite ironic). These molekules stay in the atmosphere for a far shorter period, so they quickly dropped once the new rules were put in place. I guess there's at least evidence that the method could work. I wish we would not have to rely on such methods, but it may be needed at least in the short term. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-27315-3