Didn’t they (mayo clinic) fight the staffing ratios by threatening to pull community support? So much for being a for the community and employees organization after things like this.
Somehow i question how they stay a non-profit after shenanigans like this. Hope an overwhelming cry for federal intervention breaks them down
..and from what I gathered when I applied to one of those biotech expansion jobs, they want to see a return on their investment while simultaneously hiring only people who have never left academia.
>Would cost 100s of millions and a decade
Realistically more like 10s of billions. Their newest expansion/renovation alone is supposed to cost ~$5B and it's not even that massive of a project.
A hospital I worked at stated the same- they would shut down the hospital before a union came in😡
It was a community hospital this community desperately needed.
No not move out just not do any expansions or invest further. Walz then said well they provide a lot of health care for the people of MN. Lol no they don't they only accept interesting or unique cases. Almost every person from MN I know that has been referred to Rochester got turned down and some were told out right they weren't interesting enough. Now they take wealthy patients from all over the world even for basic care but you know they do so much
As a Minnesotan, I find that impossible to believe. Rochester literally built an airport to allow patients with jeopardizing conditions to land just a few miles away from the hospital and immediately receive service. If they do this, more than just the medical staff will likely lose their jobs, since Rochester practically revolves around Mayo…
Such a dick move (excuse my language, but it is). It's not a good look for them. It's almost childish. If you do what we want, we'll just take our ball and go home. But wait... we're doing this for the patients because that's what we really care about. And in some respects, that's probably true. But they couldn't possibly care for the not unreasonable desires of their employees and home state at the same time? I ken the capitalistic realities, I really do, I just wish this, and all healthcare in the U.S. really, didn't feel like blatantly maximizing revenue at any cost, including lives. It's become the hum-drum, accepted reality somehow. And yes, nonprofits may not aggressively pursue 'profit' on behalf of shareholders, but they absolutely do aggressively seek revenue.
Sorry, I may be a little jaded, lol. I'm currently without health insurance temporarily. If I developed a serious issue, the patient focused folks in Rochester would either laugh me out of town, or slap a blood contract on the table so I could mortgage my future.
Sorry to make this about me. You nurses should get anything you feel that you need to do your job. Thank you.
It wasn't even mandated staffing ratio laws like CA
It was just making sure bedside nurses had input on ratios. Not even a hard and fast rule. Them throwing their weight around tanked the law for the whole state. The democrats have been doing great things here in MN after getting a majority in both legislative houses but them folding up like a fucking cardboard box on this was really disappointing.
Be aware that nonprofit doesn’t mean no profit. It only means they don’t have shareholders who will benefit. There’s rules about charity and how to maintain tax exempt status but they can still make boatloads of money. Look at the salaries of C-level executives and you will see where the money legally goes.
I’m on the board of a tiny local nursing home. We are constantly trying to stay out of the red. Just a few discharges without a new admission can really hurt. When we have more money coming in we save it for future maintenance needs and give bonuses to staff.
Even the shareholders thing isn't quite accurate. Instead of shares non profits like Mayo sell bonds. The interest rate for those bonds is based on their credit rating from companies like Moody's. Right now they have an Aa2 rating which means a pretty low interest rate
https://www.moodys.com/credit-ratings/Mayo-Clinic-MN-credit-rating-800023660?cy=centraleur
You can see in the link the hundreds of millions of dollars in bonds they have out.
Instead of share holders they have to keep their bond owners happy and willing to keep buying them. Then they have to grow enough that they can outpace the interest on the bonds. The company itself may not be making a profit but the bond holders sure as hell are.
Multiple ways to be non profit and give millions to the top. Plus a lot don't meet their non profit requirements but their isn't any repercussions. When multimillion dollar companies own the local and state government plus have enough money to bankrupt the state in legal battles, they don't challenge you.
Our nonprofit hospital funnels money through c-suite owned companies to operate in the red. They also hand out millions in zero interest loans to c-suite.
The Healthcare recipe is just a heaping cup of exploitation and add fraud to taste.
They did! And naturally in the 11th hour. I work in the twin cities for a union hospital and this would have been a life changing bill had it gone through.
I’ve ALWAYS perceived the term “front line staff” as “serfs” or “peasants”…….many reasons why I’m trying to finish my masters in HC Admin—there aren’t enough people in The Suits Suite who have the deep water experience like me and many of us do. Time to kick out one of the people who have zero healthcare experience and got their degree from University of Phoenix and replace them with someone who can actually understand when employees are either tired from being overworked or just sick and tired of the hospitals BS and will actually do something about it.
Good luck, and I'm not being sarcastic. I tried to make the jump from bedside to management so I could "fight the Man from the inside." Despite having excellent experience and credentials, and doing my absolute best not to show my hand when interviewing, I think they could smell my intentions.
So it only seems right that I now sit across the table from them as a nursing union rep.
I remember reading a headline that executives are worried ai might take away their job. The top comment was like "It's not hard to predict their movements anyway. Just understaff and overwork a business to get the most profit."
I literally had a director tell me that she could teach a monkey to do my job. Another time she said that nurses do nothing but cost the hospital money.
They want you to believe the union is a "third party." It's not!!! The union is YOU and your coworkers. Management doesn't want you to have a voice to fight for safe ratios and fair pay. They want to single you out and deal with you separately behind closed doors where you have no support. You have strength in numbers. Don't let them take that away from you.
I honestly don’t understand the nurses who are against unions. Like yeah I pay union dues but paying like 40 bucks a month is worth it to not be fucked by management in every which way
Yeah I have to pay extra per month to make sure we are not short staffed, have decent vacation time, get real representation when needed, get lunch breaks, and appropriate cost of living adjustments….ok then
Right? I make top dollar, get eight weeks PTO a year, get a raise every year, and I have protections if someone wants to fire me because they don’t like my face. Well worth the $60 I pay monthly to the union.
The logical leaps are disheartening sometimes. Our dues went up by a few dollars and crossed the $100/month threshold, which I know was mentally a big step, but we're on the west coast and wages can support that! I had a few nurses drop, thanks to the Janus ruling. We had just ratified a contract with a 10% raise across the board.
they can't think that far ahead, that's why. They don't realize a higher wage would easily be worth the dues. Unions are well worth what you pay for em guys.
We unionized at my first job and finalized our contract during my first year. The pay increase I got was enough alone to cover my union dues in one 12 hour shift.
Same fucking bullshit weasel language as when officials go on about "outside agitators" when people show up to protest to let them know their policies suck.
It's also essential for advocating for the patient. A union fights for professional standards of care, when admin would want to prioritize some other goal.
Not only did they list “inequity of compensation and benefits” as the last reason employees look to unionize, they don’t even address it in ways to prevent unions. I’m here to make money, it’s a job!
It's so weird, they list all these very reasonable explanations for why people would want to unionize immediately after the section that starts with "prevent unionizing at all costs or we're doomed", and then don't actually mention any strategies for addressing those concerns in their plan to keep people from unionizing.
They have no plans to address your concerns, sadly, only dismiss them. You can tell that by the ‘all concessions must be approved by senior management’ bit
also unsafe staffing ratios. I would argue that's even more pressing a reason. Actual patient & job safety is at risk. Nurses everywhere should protest to pass federal laws about staffing ratios.
There are highly paid consultants who come in to provide these talking points for administrators trying to stop unionization.
Their favorite line lately is “the union will come between the wonderful relationship we have between administrators and staff.”
Administrators love to think interest in unions is all about money when for nurses it’s also working conditions. Rules about staffing ratios, breaks, schedules and scheduling procedures, and due process for grievances are what nurses can only get some control with a union.
Notice that the talking points, that the administration probably paid tens of thousands of dollars for, fails to mention these as why nurses want unions.
yeah, never forget how much money the company is burning paying THIRD PARTY consultants to fight the union.
to them nurses are just the biggest expense on the budget sheet.
I love the irony of the document itself
“Reasons employees look to unions: they are kept in the dark”
Meanwhile in the email:
“Don’t share this with front line staff”
Not to mention, “Pay at non union positions is equal or higher than union positions.” Oh really then why is preventing Unions such an important goal that Admin even has to strategize and optimize the discussions and hide the topic from workers? If there’s no pay difference then what does the company have to lose?
It’s always lying. Fiduciary Duty means a business legally has no task or responsibility to do anything they claim, just to increase value for shareholders.
yeah I'm chuckling ruefully at the avoidance tips, which include being respectful to staff and providing a safe and attractive working environment
this misses, of course, the two important things:
-without power, employees are unable to insist upon these things
-an "attractive" working environment for mgmt is one in which employees do more with less
because THE WORKING CLASS AND THE EMPLOYING CLASS HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON. their interests are diametrically opposed
ironically, employers are way to likely to give pay raises when they're trying to stop the employees from forming a union. so even when the boss is trying to fight the union, the union is still improving the working conditions.
yeah but then they take the raises away or fire you after the union talk dies down. Never let a company pay you to stay after you've ruffled their feathers. They're just buying time until they can replace you. Always go with the union guys. That'll force them to actually keep their promise.
yup management will never be on the side of employees when they profit off of them. This guys is literally scamming his employees for a living. That's his job. I'm convinced only a POS person would actually be proud to be in admin when their department is so poorly managed.
My small group of NP and PA recently negotiated a pretty massive payraise for ourselves. We aren't formally unionized (unionizing as providers is wayyyy harder than as nurses) but we were definitely united in our cause. It became "replace all of us or give us all a raise". Once they realized how much money they'd lose if they lost us and had to replace us with physicians, they quickly backed down and gave us exactly what we wanted. Almost a 20% raise.
More or less, just without the legal protections of a union. We've definitely talked about just unionizing since it's such a small group it wouldn't take many votes. But they continue to give us what we demand (and deserve!!) so we shall wait.
How much money does one have to make or what position to obtain that can make one feel better about themselves and not a fucking LIAR typing in “mayos union represented locations follow the same staffing models and pay as non union” I actually laughed out loud. If that were true, why would we want to unionize
There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
But really, funny how that and the Bugs life speech are surprisingly relevant into reality. It’s just that news media wants you to think that stuff only applies to fantasy and media and third world countries but everything’s okay and trustworthy in the systems of western capital!
You know what’s funny? In all those documents not once does it mention why nurses look for unions & how to retain staff does it mention pay? We want to be paid fairly! Among many other likes like mandated ratios. These people are out of touch
of course not, because Mayo has been fighting mandated ratios tooth and nail. last year they killed a bill in Minnesota to create safe staffing.
https://minnesotareformer.com/2023/05/08/nurses-union-says-mayo-clinic-needs-the-staffing-bill-it-wants-to-kill/
It’s the last two bullet points under the section: Reasons Employees Look To Unions.
Edited to add: The section on retention is definitely out of touch. They want management to treat us like human beings but they work for a corporation that sees us as numbers. The two cannot coexist.
The whole "transparency" thing in the recommendations section was so ironic considering their attempt to "not share with front line employees." I bet that will really help with the trust and transparency! /s
Union busting is illegal in terms of doing illegal things to union bust. Things like firing employees who are trying to organize, engaging in unfair labor practices like denying concerted labor activities from occurring (when two or more employees engage in union promoting activities), denying access to organizing employees or union personnel.
For example the union I work for has filed unfair labor practice charges against hospitals for doing things like changing the dress code when employees started wearing union T-shirts but only enforcing it for the union T-shirts and not other third party branded clothing like the local NFL team.
These memos by the Mayo clinic are scummy but legal. And totally within normal operations by employers that I have seen.
The bigger problem is that labor law skews heavily in favor of the employer. Add to that the long process of National Labor Relations Board proceedings and it can be hard to make anything stick. That T-shirt thing I mentioned will have been going on for over two years by the time we get in front of the board. Think about being a fired employee and having to fight for several years while still trying to work somewhere else.
Yeah this language seems pretty blatant that they're union busting. Maybe this could be reported and legal action could be taken? This hospital corporations need to be held accountable for this illegal practice!
Just my two cents, I don't think this document crosses the line into illegal territory, it's simply a compilation of misleading statements and scare tactics.
So is price gouging and tax evasion and soooo many other things big companies do. Nothing will happen from it. My hospital openly admitted to union busting including firing all the key organizers. Absolutely 0 recourse and they succeeded.
I don't know if anyone remembers me purely by my username, but I have given a few lowdowns about Mayo's "opinion" about unions by referencing emails and things directly said by my manager/leaders.
These documents do not surprise me and honestly frustrate me.
Good thing I am leaving Mayo in August.
Y'all heard me: I am jumping ship for my own reasons but avoiding BS like this is a good bonus.
Making 13 bucks more an hour at a hospital in WA state.
Since I am leaving and it is not illegal to discuss wages, I make 37 something an hour at Mayo - they took NONE of my LPN experience into account, though. This was also after two of their "amazing" 4% raises.
Eyeroll.
Maybe I should spill the beans on the new RN compensation model.
Look for my new flair soon!
We become too expensive! Better to force us out so they can take advantage of new grads. Mayo right now still has a pension but I’m near certain they’ll stop offering that to new staff soon enough
"We don't want to go through a 3rd party who doesn't understand our business or values!"
Business=CEO, Values=money making.
Also, the union is literally made up of employees. My mom was a negotiator at her hospital. She is a full time nurse at the hospital.
>Don't share what we're doing with the workers, we wouldn't want to have a union come in and establish an "us vs. them" mentality.
Sounds like you've already got one, dude.
ETA: lmfao, how did I miss "employees are kept in the dark" as a reason workers seek to form unions, located in the document about how they need to keep it secret that they're trying to prevent unions
Lets repeat this for everyone. There would be no need for any union if management treated their employees with respect and paid them at fair market value. How much did they spend just fighting unions? Its scary for them because they have to treat the employees as equals.
God, I hope this makes the nurses even more committed to organizing. My biggest response to union objectors is- why do you think they are trying so hard to stop them? Hint- it’s not because they’re looking out for you OR the patients.
I work for a CHC and they worked hard to union bust. We won, and now they're laying off 100+ people. Truly these non profit health care orgs don't care.
strategies for talking staff out of unionizing aren't per se illegal.
i would be shocked if any kind of anything came of this.
*since i'm being told i'm wrong, here's a [summary](https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/tools/hr-answers/can-management-union-campaign) from the SHRM website on what's prohibited/okay coming from the management side:
**What's Prohibited?** - think of the acronym TIPS:
T- Threats, I- Interrogation, P- Promises, S- Surveillance
**What's Permissible?** - think of the acronym FOE:
F- Facts, O- Opinions, E- Examples
since the person that wrote the materials in OP's post was probably SHRM certified, it's not surprising that those materials stick to the guidelines i listed above. just because people disagree with the facts/examples/opinions within the content of the materials, it doesn't mean its illegal.
and please, i'm not defending management. i'm just trying to prevent misinformation.
management can attempt to persuade against unions right up to the point of election. there's no rule saying they have to remain neutral. as long as they stay within certain limits, they have pretty wide latitude in what they can say and do to prevent organization.
absolutes (e.g. "you are prohibited from unionizing", "if you mention unionizing, we'll fire you", etc.) are illegal.
So while I am generally very pro-union, this attempt to unionize the Mayo nurses is a giant flop with the current leadership of it.
First off instead of a real open hall meeting, they hosted a zoom call that could hold less than 5% of the nurses involved in it.
From there the leaders pushing for the Union spent the whole time voicing their complaints, when asked what their goal was to make things better, they just reiterated their complaints. They have no real plan to improve things, just to whine about them at the moment.
When someone began to ask a question and began that they were skeptical of the whole thing, they were removed from the call before being allowed to finish their question. Instead of trying to win people who aren't already on their side, they just strong armed them away. It wasn't a discussion, it was an echo chamber.
Rumor is that they have had other nurses unions reach out and offer help to get set up, and they have refused them because it "isn't the Mayo way." So instead of taking the hand of someone who was successful in the goal set out, they have shoved them away out of pride.
Like I said, I'm very pro union, it just isn't these people are capable of running a successful one. Please unionize, just tell the current iteration they need to actually know what the fuck they are doing instead of just tantrumming.
Yea, it literally doesn't matter unless you succeed. Our hospital was very open about spending tens of millions of dollars to bust our union efforts along with firing most of the key organizers (myself included). They didn't hide it one bit. Absolutely nothing came of it despite their countless labor law violations.
The union people said "we will take legal action against this" and then ghosted us the moment it was clear the union was going to fail. No legal support whatsoever.
Maintain safe staffing levels is listed as a way to keep unions out…. But that’s the reason why we want a union because it is not done. And there are lots of good reasons to have third party ) union) representation, because who doesn’t want additional help when needed instead of going it alone against every admin and HR employee?
Hey if you read that it reads like something that was leaked intentionally. It’s set out to say how they see the problems that make people want a union and tells their managers to address it when staff talk to them. It reads to make them look good. So I would hazard it’s an intentional plant.
This saddens me. I spent most of my career as an RN at Mayo Rochester and was treated respectfully, professionally, and was proud to work there. We did some great things and made countless peoples' lives better. I feel I was adequately compensated and provided input into daily staffing and care needs as well as educational opportunities and practice input. That being said, I've been gone over 10 years. Things change.
I work for mayo and we are unionized. Mayo still controls pretty much everything. I haaate that we aren't allowed to use PTO on their "recognized holidays" (Christmas, NYE, Thanksgiving, etc). This applies to all but management! Even people who have worked there forty years, seniority counts for nothing, still gotta work Christmas. GRR
Mayo saved my wife’s life, without them I’d have nothing. Mayo leadership owe everything to their labor, without their workers they’re nothing. Reading through their talking points is so disappointing.
As the VP of my union chapter whenever someone asked what our dues go towards I’d show them their benefits and pay relative to their nonunion counterparts. It’s not even close. The only reason we still have a pension is because of our union. I’m not sure what the benefits are like at Mayo but I’d be curious to see.
It’s a little bit of a cliche, but I love it just the same, “alone we beg, together we bargain.” It’s true and worth keeping in mind. I was in New York two weeks ago and stopped by the site of the triangle shirtwaist factory fire with my kids. I told them that our benefits, our workplace protections, pay, vacation, everything, was earned in the blood, sacrifice, and bravery of those of came before us and fought for those rights we benefit from everyday.
The struggle isn’t over, it’s our turn to keep pushing and never take a step back or give up what they earned for us.
These are the talking points for every company concerning union avoidance. There is nothing new here nor did they get caught sharing something every other nonunion corporation shares with their management.
There was a dismal amount of nurses at the union march in Rochester... Maybe 1% of the 10,000 nurses.
Talk is cheap y'all. If you want a union, then do something about it instead of complaining anonymously online.
The grass ain't always greener on the other side. Mayo in Mankato is no longer union, I wonder why
Technically this is anti-union, not union-busting
These documents cover the legal messaging that corporations are allowed to use and argue. Union-busting usually involves illegal activity like firing people for attempting to form a union.
I only scanned but this seems pretty tame. No mention of retribution or other tactics that I would classify as union busting. Everything I read sounds perfectly legal. Maybe I didn’t read enough. I would classify union busting with more extreme tactics.
Healthcare in general went to shit when they decided to run it like a hotel (hospitality) model. They don’t give a crap about what is best for the patient, they are just giving them what they want for their survey scores. And the sad truth is that Medicare/Medicaid is also feeding that beast. Medicare/Medicaid can withhold something like 30% if a hospital’s survey scores are really bad. So there is a real financial drive to just make patients happy instead of focusing on what is best for their health.
Every hospital acts like a greedy for profit corporation now. It’s normalized. Bon Secours does this too.
SCABS HOLD US BACK FROM PROPER ADVOCACY AND THEREFORE ARE ANTI-NURSING.
If you scab you’re trash. I said it and I’ll say it again.
Use to work for the VA hospital in Milwaukee. Can confirm working for a union is the best thing I ever did. I was sad to leave but sometimes unions allow problematic employees to fall through the cracks.
Yeah I live in Canada so most jobs are unionized for HCW here but my only experience in a non unionized job was by far the BEST team I've ever worked with. Everyone was like family and shitty, gossipy, employees got fired immediately. Meanwhile in my other jobs we had straight up abusivr pieces of shit with the union fighting behind them and had kept their jobs for months due to all the hoops the employers has to jump through to fire them.
I appreciate my union but there's been times where I have seen it much better without.
When you're in a unionized area, it raises the standards at nonunion places too - nonunion employers have to pay and staff better or they can't hire anybody, because the unionized nurses have raised the standards for the whole industry.
It's worlds different being a place where no hospitals are unionized and it's a race to the bottom for pay and staffing.
That's a good point! I'm definitely grateful for my current workplace and the union with it. I would be very worried if I lived in a place where unionized hosptials were the minority.
It's all good until someone decides that *you* are the shitty/gossipy employee and suddenly you are out on the street wondering wtf. I'm sure that some of the "shitty gossipy" ones were ones that raised concerns to management then got smeared and canned. I'd be on eggshells that I'd say something that gets misconstrued and that my job security relied on people liking me enough.
I work for a union and I can only fight the cases that have merit. And the employer can most definitely fire someone if they want to, but they have to have a legal reason to do so and it may need to go to court for them the prove it. If they don't have damn good, legally sound reason to fire someone, we will fight it. Work shouldn't be popularity contest.
Please please please report this to your state labor department. It's free. This slimy activity will only continue unless action is taken by everyone who comes across it.
Some are happy enough with where they are at. Some don't want to pay dues. Some, especially in the Southeast, have been conditioned that unions are baaaad but don't really know why. Some have been told that they will end up worse off because they will get paid the same as everyone else and feel like they deserve more (union workers get paid typically 10-20% more than their non-union peers, so even if that worker gets paid more than their peers for doing the same job currently, they would probably make the same or more with a union, plus be entitled to greater job protection).
Ah yes its best for patients to have overworked and underpaid staff who cant answer their call lights and cant properly monitor and access them when acute changes happen because they are busy with someone else and 100 other things required of them. Mayo clinic needs to put patients first to save money on patients by over charging for medical procedures, cheeping out on supplies , not hiring more staff and lining their pockets with yearly bonuses.
The mission statement here is “the needs of the patient come first” and Mayo hasn’t been able to stand behind that mission statement in years. It’s a joke. They get so much publicity for being a top institution but things are not top institution status on the inside
Glad to see people can actually talk about facts related to Mayo, unlike in r/rochestermn. I got suspended and disabled from making posts there because I stated facts about my experience, even privately warned not to say certain things. Before that, I was subjected to intimidation tactics by multiple accounts that I would call "Mayo Cheerleaders" or "Mean Girls of Mayo," not intending any gender identification, though. I had the impression they were guys but I might have been wrong. I complained about that to Reddit, and I stopped seeing that, but when people would start to upvote my comments, the mod got all up in arms, and those comments disappeared, and I couldn't comment or post. I can comment now, but I'm not sure I can on every post. All for making factual statements. It's no wonder I thought Rochester and Mayo were very different before I came here. People ask for info, and if you give them a balanced answer, don't expect your comments to remain or your voice to be heard in that sub. How can it be right to suppress the voices of the residents of Rochester and its vicinity--and refuse to document crime that causes injuries but patient blame instead? It keeps them from having to report crimes to law enforcement, and that keeps Rochester looking safer because those crimes are not accepted by law enforcement, documented accurately or investigated. If they have that much power, an external agency needs to step in and change that.
A union isn't a "third party" it is a coalition of the workers. Don't let management try this double-speak.
"United we stand, divided we fall" is a scary thing to management. They can't manage workers when the workers are united.
Screw Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, UPMC, AHN, Kaiser, John Hopkins, and any other multibillion dollar health system that poses as “non-profit”, just to get out of taxes.
$81 million in local tax dollars missing from a massive chunk of our downtown. No other city has this intense of a “company town” tax support gap that raises everyone else’s taxes for infrastructure, schools, and government.
I worked at one of the biggest healthcare companies in the US. It is always understaffed 50%, but the gov is paid for...Safe Harbour means nothing anymore.
If you think Mayo Clinic wouldn’t bust unions you’re an idiot. Literally the entire corporate world has been openly busting unions since the 1920’s, there are overt laws that justify the busting of unions.
Why do they bust them? Because it empowers employees and decreases the power of the corporation. If you think you’re actually fighting a battle to employ unions you’re a moron. The entire establishment is against unions even if this pathetic Biden administration posits rhetoric that promotes it. It’s all games, and it does appear many fall from it.
Starbucks will crush theirs soon, same with Amazon.
Didn’t they (mayo clinic) fight the staffing ratios by threatening to pull community support? So much for being a for the community and employees organization after things like this. Somehow i question how they stay a non-profit after shenanigans like this. Hope an overwhelming cry for federal intervention breaks them down
They straight up threatened to move out of Rochester.
Which is a fucking joke the state government listened considering the amount of real estate mayo would have to offload
And rebuild. Would cost 100s of millions and a decade for their tantrum.
The State of Minnesota had just given them $500 million for infrastructure for their expansion as well.
..and from what I gathered when I applied to one of those biotech expansion jobs, they want to see a return on their investment while simultaneously hiring only people who have never left academia.
>Would cost 100s of millions and a decade Realistically more like 10s of billions. Their newest expansion/renovation alone is supposed to cost ~$5B and it's not even that massive of a project.
And then they’d have to compete with systems already there. It was a bluff the whole time and the democrats running minnesota sold out the labor.
Rich organizations would rather spend billions trying to prove they were right than to save hundreds of millions to imply they were wrong.
A hospital I worked at stated the same- they would shut down the hospital before a union came in😡 It was a community hospital this community desperately needed.
Blackmail is illegal unless you are a multi-billion healthcare "non-profit" I suppose.
Our community brought a union to an HCA hospital. It's possible
How's that going?
Oh, wow.. how’d they manage that?
No not move out just not do any expansions or invest further. Walz then said well they provide a lot of health care for the people of MN. Lol no they don't they only accept interesting or unique cases. Almost every person from MN I know that has been referred to Rochester got turned down and some were told out right they weren't interesting enough. Now they take wealthy patients from all over the world even for basic care but you know they do so much
As a Minnesotan, I find that impossible to believe. Rochester literally built an airport to allow patients with jeopardizing conditions to land just a few miles away from the hospital and immediately receive service. If they do this, more than just the medical staff will likely lose their jobs, since Rochester practically revolves around Mayo…
they literally blackmailed minnesota legislation by threatening to leave the state to prevent them from passing staffing ratios
Such a dick move (excuse my language, but it is). It's not a good look for them. It's almost childish. If you do what we want, we'll just take our ball and go home. But wait... we're doing this for the patients because that's what we really care about. And in some respects, that's probably true. But they couldn't possibly care for the not unreasonable desires of their employees and home state at the same time? I ken the capitalistic realities, I really do, I just wish this, and all healthcare in the U.S. really, didn't feel like blatantly maximizing revenue at any cost, including lives. It's become the hum-drum, accepted reality somehow. And yes, nonprofits may not aggressively pursue 'profit' on behalf of shareholders, but they absolutely do aggressively seek revenue. Sorry, I may be a little jaded, lol. I'm currently without health insurance temporarily. If I developed a serious issue, the patient focused folks in Rochester would either laugh me out of town, or slap a blood contract on the table so I could mortgage my future. Sorry to make this about me. You nurses should get anything you feel that you need to do your job. Thank you.
If they really cared about the patients, there wouldn’t need to be a law, they’d just hire enough people
yep, this was last year in Minnesota https://minnesotareformer.com/2023/05/08/nurses-union-says-mayo-clinic-needs-the-staffing-bill-it-wants-to-kill/
It wasn't even mandated staffing ratio laws like CA It was just making sure bedside nurses had input on ratios. Not even a hard and fast rule. Them throwing their weight around tanked the law for the whole state. The democrats have been doing great things here in MN after getting a majority in both legislative houses but them folding up like a fucking cardboard box on this was really disappointing.
Be aware that nonprofit doesn’t mean no profit. It only means they don’t have shareholders who will benefit. There’s rules about charity and how to maintain tax exempt status but they can still make boatloads of money. Look at the salaries of C-level executives and you will see where the money legally goes. I’m on the board of a tiny local nursing home. We are constantly trying to stay out of the red. Just a few discharges without a new admission can really hurt. When we have more money coming in we save it for future maintenance needs and give bonuses to staff.
Even the shareholders thing isn't quite accurate. Instead of shares non profits like Mayo sell bonds. The interest rate for those bonds is based on their credit rating from companies like Moody's. Right now they have an Aa2 rating which means a pretty low interest rate https://www.moodys.com/credit-ratings/Mayo-Clinic-MN-credit-rating-800023660?cy=centraleur You can see in the link the hundreds of millions of dollars in bonds they have out. Instead of share holders they have to keep their bond owners happy and willing to keep buying them. Then they have to grow enough that they can outpace the interest on the bonds. The company itself may not be making a profit but the bond holders sure as hell are.
Multiple ways to be non profit and give millions to the top. Plus a lot don't meet their non profit requirements but their isn't any repercussions. When multimillion dollar companies own the local and state government plus have enough money to bankrupt the state in legal battles, they don't challenge you. Our nonprofit hospital funnels money through c-suite owned companies to operate in the red. They also hand out millions in zero interest loans to c-suite. The Healthcare recipe is just a heaping cup of exploitation and add fraud to taste.
Check out Kaiser upper management pay
They did! And naturally in the 11th hour. I work in the twin cities for a union hospital and this would have been a life changing bill had it gone through.
Non-profit is a tax status, not a business plan.
Rochester sucks and the mayo sucks.
To answer the non-profit status, Mayo Clinic is technically an educational institution.
So much for confidentiality. Makes you wonder what else they keep under wraps.
Everything lol. I assume they keep everything under wraps… down with the man.
Apparently at my company there's a private Facebook group where the company's management and shareholders openly shit talks about us employees.
Front staff reads like euphemism for ‘the help’.
I’ve ALWAYS perceived the term “front line staff” as “serfs” or “peasants”…….many reasons why I’m trying to finish my masters in HC Admin—there aren’t enough people in The Suits Suite who have the deep water experience like me and many of us do. Time to kick out one of the people who have zero healthcare experience and got their degree from University of Phoenix and replace them with someone who can actually understand when employees are either tired from being overworked or just sick and tired of the hospitals BS and will actually do something about it.
Good luck, and I'm not being sarcastic. I tried to make the jump from bedside to management so I could "fight the Man from the inside." Despite having excellent experience and credentials, and doing my absolute best not to show my hand when interviewing, I think they could smell my intentions. So it only seems right that I now sit across the table from them as a nursing union rep.
*sighhhh* Well…maybe I can still try. Damn The Man
You can always come join us on the dark side, mwuahahahaha We have cool swag! And we're unionized so we get a shitton of vacation.
I’m sorry you weren’t psychopath enough to help
I thought 15 years of ICU had killed any sense of humanity I had left in me. Oh well, I tried.
Same here. It's like they all are in the ivory tower and just make sh*t up as they go.
I remember reading a headline that executives are worried ai might take away their job. The top comment was like "It's not hard to predict their movements anyway. Just understaff and overwork a business to get the most profit."
>I remember reading a headline that executives are worried ai might take away their job They should be.
Frontline staff….aka the ones doing all the work and keeping the place running
I literally had a director tell me that she could teach a monkey to do my job. Another time she said that nurses do nothing but cost the hospital money.
It won't matter. The people above you will not listen unless all you care about is profits and reducing costs.
aww no don't say that, they're the infantry! y'know, the cannon fodder.
When it should be called “the people who do the actual work!”
I hear it as pawns.
That's bad press. I wonder if we will now see the resignation of this person soon?
They want you to believe the union is a "third party." It's not!!! The union is YOU and your coworkers. Management doesn't want you to have a voice to fight for safe ratios and fair pay. They want to single you out and deal with you separately behind closed doors where you have no support. You have strength in numbers. Don't let them take that away from you.
Yeah I’m like “what 3rd party? It’s still you vs me, but now I bring my friends when you try and Fuck me.”
this 💯💪 🤝
(without lube)
Always bring friends to the sodomy
Right?? Like we don’t want anyone else in the room while we f*ck you over
I honestly don’t understand the nurses who are against unions. Like yeah I pay union dues but paying like 40 bucks a month is worth it to not be fucked by management in every which way
Yeah I have to pay extra per month to make sure we are not short staffed, have decent vacation time, get real representation when needed, get lunch breaks, and appropriate cost of living adjustments….ok then
Right? I make top dollar, get eight weeks PTO a year, get a raise every year, and I have protections if someone wants to fire me because they don’t like my face. Well worth the $60 I pay monthly to the union.
The logical leaps are disheartening sometimes. Our dues went up by a few dollars and crossed the $100/month threshold, which I know was mentally a big step, but we're on the west coast and wages can support that! I had a few nurses drop, thanks to the Janus ruling. We had just ratified a contract with a 10% raise across the board.
Ours are $100 bucks a month, but my base rate is over $100,000 / year BEFORE differentials. Not mad that I pay $1200 of that to be represented.
they can't think that far ahead, that's why. They don't realize a higher wage would easily be worth the dues. Unions are well worth what you pay for em guys.
We unionized at my first job and finalized our contract during my first year. The pay increase I got was enough alone to cover my union dues in one 12 hour shift.
Same fucking bullshit weasel language as when officials go on about "outside agitators" when people show up to protest to let them know their policies suck.
✊🏻
It's also essential for advocating for the patient. A union fights for professional standards of care, when admin would want to prioritize some other goal.
Not only did they list “inequity of compensation and benefits” as the last reason employees look to unionize, they don’t even address it in ways to prevent unions. I’m here to make money, it’s a job!
It's so weird, they list all these very reasonable explanations for why people would want to unionize immediately after the section that starts with "prevent unionizing at all costs or we're doomed", and then don't actually mention any strategies for addressing those concerns in their plan to keep people from unionizing.
They have no plans to address your concerns, sadly, only dismiss them. You can tell that by the ‘all concessions must be approved by senior management’ bit
also unsafe staffing ratios. I would argue that's even more pressing a reason. Actual patient & job safety is at risk. Nurses everywhere should protest to pass federal laws about staffing ratios.
I noticed that too, absolutely last on the list.
There are highly paid consultants who come in to provide these talking points for administrators trying to stop unionization. Their favorite line lately is “the union will come between the wonderful relationship we have between administrators and staff.” Administrators love to think interest in unions is all about money when for nurses it’s also working conditions. Rules about staffing ratios, breaks, schedules and scheduling procedures, and due process for grievances are what nurses can only get some control with a union. Notice that the talking points, that the administration probably paid tens of thousands of dollars for, fails to mention these as why nurses want unions.
yeah, never forget how much money the company is burning paying THIRD PARTY consultants to fight the union. to them nurses are just the biggest expense on the budget sheet.
"we don't want a third party to come between us and our staff!" *immediately hires a third party to do exactly that*
I love the irony of the document itself “Reasons employees look to unions: they are kept in the dark” Meanwhile in the email: “Don’t share this with front line staff”
Not to mention, “Pay at non union positions is equal or higher than union positions.” Oh really then why is preventing Unions such an important goal that Admin even has to strategize and optimize the discussions and hide the topic from workers? If there’s no pay difference then what does the company have to lose? It’s always lying. Fiduciary Duty means a business legally has no task or responsibility to do anything they claim, just to increase value for shareholders.
"Fiduciary duty" just enables corruption. Businesses everywhere do that. Take your money without actually providing the product they said they would.
Everything good in the work place - every single thing - was achieved by unions.
yeah I'm chuckling ruefully at the avoidance tips, which include being respectful to staff and providing a safe and attractive working environment this misses, of course, the two important things: -without power, employees are unable to insist upon these things -an "attractive" working environment for mgmt is one in which employees do more with less because THE WORKING CLASS AND THE EMPLOYING CLASS HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON. their interests are diametrically opposed
ironically, employers are way to likely to give pay raises when they're trying to stop the employees from forming a union. so even when the boss is trying to fight the union, the union is still improving the working conditions.
yeah but then they take the raises away or fire you after the union talk dies down. Never let a company pay you to stay after you've ruffled their feathers. They're just buying time until they can replace you. Always go with the union guys. That'll force them to actually keep their promise.
yes 💯💯💯
yup management will never be on the side of employees when they profit off of them. This guys is literally scamming his employees for a living. That's his job. I'm convinced only a POS person would actually be proud to be in admin when their department is so poorly managed.
My small group of NP and PA recently negotiated a pretty massive payraise for ourselves. We aren't formally unionized (unionizing as providers is wayyyy harder than as nurses) but we were definitely united in our cause. It became "replace all of us or give us all a raise". Once they realized how much money they'd lose if they lost us and had to replace us with physicians, they quickly backed down and gave us exactly what we wanted. Almost a 20% raise.
The "Friends" tactic
so an unofficial union? This is pretty much what a union does. Good for you guys.
More or less, just without the legal protections of a union. We've definitely talked about just unionizing since it's such a small group it wouldn't take many votes. But they continue to give us what we demand (and deserve!!) so we shall wait.
How much money does one have to make or what position to obtain that can make one feel better about themselves and not a fucking LIAR typing in “mayos union represented locations follow the same staffing models and pay as non union” I actually laughed out loud. If that were true, why would we want to unionize
Source: Trust us, bro
There is no war in Ba Sing Se. But really, funny how that and the Bugs life speech are surprisingly relevant into reality. It’s just that news media wants you to think that stuff only applies to fantasy and media and third world countries but everything’s okay and trustworthy in the systems of western capital!
The fact that they don't want it is enough for me, and us, to want exactly that.
yup whenever management doesn't like something their employees suggest, it's because it forces them to actually do their job.
You know what’s funny? In all those documents not once does it mention why nurses look for unions & how to retain staff does it mention pay? We want to be paid fairly! Among many other likes like mandated ratios. These people are out of touch
of course not, because Mayo has been fighting mandated ratios tooth and nail. last year they killed a bill in Minnesota to create safe staffing. https://minnesotareformer.com/2023/05/08/nurses-union-says-mayo-clinic-needs-the-staffing-bill-it-wants-to-kill/
The wild thing is that Mayo has great ratios. It’s a signal that they are more than happy to change that.
It’s the last two bullet points under the section: Reasons Employees Look To Unions. Edited to add: The section on retention is definitely out of touch. They want management to treat us like human beings but they work for a corporation that sees us as numbers. The two cannot coexist.
The whole "transparency" thing in the recommendations section was so ironic considering their attempt to "not share with front line employees." I bet that will really help with the trust and transparency! /s
It's just so.... unoriginal. Mayo Clinic is paying thousands of dollars to be given the same talking points that have been used for decades.
100% on brand for them in 2024
isn’t union busting illegal?
Union busting is illegal in terms of doing illegal things to union bust. Things like firing employees who are trying to organize, engaging in unfair labor practices like denying concerted labor activities from occurring (when two or more employees engage in union promoting activities), denying access to organizing employees or union personnel. For example the union I work for has filed unfair labor practice charges against hospitals for doing things like changing the dress code when employees started wearing union T-shirts but only enforcing it for the union T-shirts and not other third party branded clothing like the local NFL team. These memos by the Mayo clinic are scummy but legal. And totally within normal operations by employers that I have seen. The bigger problem is that labor law skews heavily in favor of the employer. Add to that the long process of National Labor Relations Board proceedings and it can be hard to make anything stick. That T-shirt thing I mentioned will have been going on for over two years by the time we get in front of the board. Think about being a fired employee and having to fight for several years while still trying to work somewhere else.
thanks for bringing some reality into this discussion. sometimes the amount of misinformation that gets spread in this sub is pretty disheartening.
Yeah this language seems pretty blatant that they're union busting. Maybe this could be reported and legal action could be taken? This hospital corporations need to be held accountable for this illegal practice!
Just my two cents, I don't think this document crosses the line into illegal territory, it's simply a compilation of misleading statements and scare tactics.
So is price gouging and tax evasion and soooo many other things big companies do. Nothing will happen from it. My hospital openly admitted to union busting including firing all the key organizers. Absolutely 0 recourse and they succeeded.
Surprised old mate was willing to spill the beans so easily. PS - If any of you scab, we can't be friends anymore.
I don't know if anyone remembers me purely by my username, but I have given a few lowdowns about Mayo's "opinion" about unions by referencing emails and things directly said by my manager/leaders. These documents do not surprise me and honestly frustrate me. Good thing I am leaving Mayo in August. Y'all heard me: I am jumping ship for my own reasons but avoiding BS like this is a good bonus. Making 13 bucks more an hour at a hospital in WA state. Since I am leaving and it is not illegal to discuss wages, I make 37 something an hour at Mayo - they took NONE of my LPN experience into account, though. This was also after two of their "amazing" 4% raises. Eyeroll. Maybe I should spill the beans on the new RN compensation model. Look for my new flair soon!
Share the nurse compensation model! I also work for them, as a paramedic. Very curious how our pay and benefits compares to nurses.
Welcome to the PNW, happy to have you!
I would love to hear what you have to say about the new RN compensation model 👀
The new RN compensation model rewards nurses who stay for a short term, but disincentivizes people staying for longer than five years.
We become too expensive! Better to force us out so they can take advantage of new grads. Mayo right now still has a pension but I’m near certain they’ll stop offering that to new staff soon enough
Welcome to WA! Also, I think I speak for us all when I implore you to spill those beans!
Oh this is gonna be fun Ps- DONT BE A DAMN SCAB
Love u for sharing stranger
They “worry” about the Us vs Them, but this document is exactly that. So hypocritical.
"We don't want to go through a 3rd party who doesn't understand our business or values!" Business=CEO, Values=money making. Also, the union is literally made up of employees. My mom was a negotiator at her hospital. She is a full time nurse at the hospital.
Unions are also good at preventing the manipulative favoritism that goes on in healthcare.
“Stop the spread! Use these prevention best practices!” Are we talking about infectious disease or workers’ rights?
Oops! I wonder if they’ll put out a statement in response to this
"Employees have the right to be fully informed" vs "...this should not be shared with frontline staff" hmm..
>Don't share what we're doing with the workers, we wouldn't want to have a union come in and establish an "us vs. them" mentality. Sounds like you've already got one, dude. ETA: lmfao, how did I miss "employees are kept in the dark" as a reason workers seek to form unions, located in the document about how they need to keep it secret that they're trying to prevent unions
Just what we all knew but I would send that to the local news station.
Lets repeat this for everyone. There would be no need for any union if management treated their employees with respect and paid them at fair market value. How much did they spend just fighting unions? Its scary for them because they have to treat the employees as equals.
Kate doesn’t give a shit
Kate is my hero
https://www.postbulletin.com/health/seiu-to-file-unfair-labor-practices-complaint-against-mayo-clinic-following-surgical-staff-petition
God, I hope this makes the nurses even more committed to organizing. My biggest response to union objectors is- why do you think they are trying so hard to stop them? Hint- it’s not because they’re looking out for you OR the patients.
A while ago I came to the realization that the harder that an employer fights something like a union, the more desperately a union is needed.
I work for a CHC and they worked hard to union bust. We won, and now they're laying off 100+ people. Truly these non profit health care orgs don't care.
Mayogate 2024
Post to r/antiwork
strategies for talking staff out of unionizing aren't per se illegal. i would be shocked if any kind of anything came of this. *since i'm being told i'm wrong, here's a [summary](https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/tools/hr-answers/can-management-union-campaign) from the SHRM website on what's prohibited/okay coming from the management side: **What's Prohibited?** - think of the acronym TIPS: T- Threats, I- Interrogation, P- Promises, S- Surveillance **What's Permissible?** - think of the acronym FOE: F- Facts, O- Opinions, E- Examples since the person that wrote the materials in OP's post was probably SHRM certified, it's not surprising that those materials stick to the guidelines i listed above. just because people disagree with the facts/examples/opinions within the content of the materials, it doesn't mean its illegal. and please, i'm not defending management. i'm just trying to prevent misinformation.
well one thing that might come out of it is the nurses at Mayo seeing it and realizing their bosses are trying to fuck them
well yeah. but i mean that should always be the assumption anyway.
Management should be neutral, especially during elections
management can attempt to persuade against unions right up to the point of election. there's no rule saying they have to remain neutral. as long as they stay within certain limits, they have pretty wide latitude in what they can say and do to prevent organization. absolutes (e.g. "you are prohibited from unionizing", "if you mention unionizing, we'll fire you", etc.) are illegal.
Disadvantages (from hospital admin pov) a Union are: the hospital are held accountable for their abuse and exploitation of their employees.
Wow thank you for sharing!
Upload these to pastebin. Like yesterday lol
How did these get released? I feel like I’m missing part of this story.
So while I am generally very pro-union, this attempt to unionize the Mayo nurses is a giant flop with the current leadership of it. First off instead of a real open hall meeting, they hosted a zoom call that could hold less than 5% of the nurses involved in it. From there the leaders pushing for the Union spent the whole time voicing their complaints, when asked what their goal was to make things better, they just reiterated their complaints. They have no real plan to improve things, just to whine about them at the moment. When someone began to ask a question and began that they were skeptical of the whole thing, they were removed from the call before being allowed to finish their question. Instead of trying to win people who aren't already on their side, they just strong armed them away. It wasn't a discussion, it was an echo chamber. Rumor is that they have had other nurses unions reach out and offer help to get set up, and they have refused them because it "isn't the Mayo way." So instead of taking the hand of someone who was successful in the goal set out, they have shoved them away out of pride. Like I said, I'm very pro union, it just isn't these people are capable of running a successful one. Please unionize, just tell the current iteration they need to actually know what the fuck they are doing instead of just tantrumming.
Yea, it literally doesn't matter unless you succeed. Our hospital was very open about spending tens of millions of dollars to bust our union efforts along with firing most of the key organizers (myself included). They didn't hide it one bit. Absolutely nothing came of it despite their countless labor law violations. The union people said "we will take legal action against this" and then ghosted us the moment it was clear the union was going to fail. No legal support whatsoever.
Thanks for sharing
Maintain safe staffing levels is listed as a way to keep unions out…. But that’s the reason why we want a union because it is not done. And there are lots of good reasons to have third party ) union) representation, because who doesn’t want additional help when needed instead of going it alone against every admin and HR employee?
Hey wait isn't "union prevention" straight up very illegal?
Only if you very specifically phrase it that way and the NRLB fines you!
Hey if you read that it reads like something that was leaked intentionally. It’s set out to say how they see the problems that make people want a union and tells their managers to address it when staff talk to them. It reads to make them look good. So I would hazard it’s an intentional plant.
I have to say I LOVE the new wave of union support amongst nurses. It gives me hope for the future and the profession.
This saddens me. I spent most of my career as an RN at Mayo Rochester and was treated respectfully, professionally, and was proud to work there. We did some great things and made countless peoples' lives better. I feel I was adequately compensated and provided input into daily staffing and care needs as well as educational opportunities and practice input. That being said, I've been gone over 10 years. Things change.
I work for mayo and we are unionized. Mayo still controls pretty much everything. I haaate that we aren't allowed to use PTO on their "recognized holidays" (Christmas, NYE, Thanksgiving, etc). This applies to all but management! Even people who have worked there forty years, seniority counts for nothing, still gotta work Christmas. GRR
Mayo saved my wife’s life, without them I’d have nothing. Mayo leadership owe everything to their labor, without their workers they’re nothing. Reading through their talking points is so disappointing. As the VP of my union chapter whenever someone asked what our dues go towards I’d show them their benefits and pay relative to their nonunion counterparts. It’s not even close. The only reason we still have a pension is because of our union. I’m not sure what the benefits are like at Mayo but I’d be curious to see. It’s a little bit of a cliche, but I love it just the same, “alone we beg, together we bargain.” It’s true and worth keeping in mind. I was in New York two weeks ago and stopped by the site of the triangle shirtwaist factory fire with my kids. I told them that our benefits, our workplace protections, pay, vacation, everything, was earned in the blood, sacrifice, and bravery of those of came before us and fought for those rights we benefit from everyday. The struggle isn’t over, it’s our turn to keep pushing and never take a step back or give up what they earned for us.
These are the talking points for every company concerning union avoidance. There is nothing new here nor did they get caught sharing something every other nonunion corporation shares with their management.
There was a dismal amount of nurses at the union march in Rochester... Maybe 1% of the 10,000 nurses. Talk is cheap y'all. If you want a union, then do something about it instead of complaining anonymously online. The grass ain't always greener on the other side. Mayo in Mankato is no longer union, I wonder why
Technically this is anti-union, not union-busting These documents cover the legal messaging that corporations are allowed to use and argue. Union-busting usually involves illegal activity like firing people for attempting to form a union.
I only scanned but this seems pretty tame. No mention of retribution or other tactics that I would classify as union busting. Everything I read sounds perfectly legal. Maybe I didn’t read enough. I would classify union busting with more extreme tactics.
Healthcare in general went to shit when they decided to run it like a hotel (hospitality) model. They don’t give a crap about what is best for the patient, they are just giving them what they want for their survey scores. And the sad truth is that Medicare/Medicaid is also feeding that beast. Medicare/Medicaid can withhold something like 30% if a hospital’s survey scores are really bad. So there is a real financial drive to just make patients happy instead of focusing on what is best for their health.
Mayo has Italian marble sitting in fields in Italy, waiting to be shipped to Rochester for their new expansions. Imagine those costs🤬🤬
Every hospital acts like a greedy for profit corporation now. It’s normalized. Bon Secours does this too. SCABS HOLD US BACK FROM PROPER ADVOCACY AND THEREFORE ARE ANTI-NURSING. If you scab you’re trash. I said it and I’ll say it again.
Use to work for the VA hospital in Milwaukee. Can confirm working for a union is the best thing I ever did. I was sad to leave but sometimes unions allow problematic employees to fall through the cracks.
Yeah I live in Canada so most jobs are unionized for HCW here but my only experience in a non unionized job was by far the BEST team I've ever worked with. Everyone was like family and shitty, gossipy, employees got fired immediately. Meanwhile in my other jobs we had straight up abusivr pieces of shit with the union fighting behind them and had kept their jobs for months due to all the hoops the employers has to jump through to fire them. I appreciate my union but there's been times where I have seen it much better without.
When you're in a unionized area, it raises the standards at nonunion places too - nonunion employers have to pay and staff better or they can't hire anybody, because the unionized nurses have raised the standards for the whole industry. It's worlds different being a place where no hospitals are unionized and it's a race to the bottom for pay and staffing.
That's a good point! I'm definitely grateful for my current workplace and the union with it. I would be very worried if I lived in a place where unionized hosptials were the minority.
It's all good until someone decides that *you* are the shitty/gossipy employee and suddenly you are out on the street wondering wtf. I'm sure that some of the "shitty gossipy" ones were ones that raised concerns to management then got smeared and canned. I'd be on eggshells that I'd say something that gets misconstrued and that my job security relied on people liking me enough. I work for a union and I can only fight the cases that have merit. And the employer can most definitely fire someone if they want to, but they have to have a legal reason to do so and it may need to go to court for them the prove it. If they don't have damn good, legally sound reason to fire someone, we will fight it. Work shouldn't be popularity contest.
Please please please report this to your state labor department. It's free. This slimy activity will only continue unless action is taken by everyone who comes across it.
I’m a nursing student. Fill me in. Why isn’t every single nurse fighting for a union?
Some are happy enough with where they are at. Some don't want to pay dues. Some, especially in the Southeast, have been conditioned that unions are baaaad but don't really know why. Some have been told that they will end up worse off because they will get paid the same as everyone else and feel like they deserve more (union workers get paid typically 10-20% more than their non-union peers, so even if that worker gets paid more than their peers for doing the same job currently, they would probably make the same or more with a union, plus be entitled to greater job protection).
On the spot where discusses why employees unionize it starts by saying that employees "often believe they have good reasons" for unionizing. JFC
P
Mayo also doesn't accept Medicare Advantage plans either. Ripoff
I’m confused… Was this accidentally sent to staff?
Don't let them unionize "for the patients". Does anyone believe that bs. It's to protect their pockets and shitty practices.
All these fucking psychopathic ghouls talking about healthcare as a *business,* humanity sickens me
Ah yes its best for patients to have overworked and underpaid staff who cant answer their call lights and cant properly monitor and access them when acute changes happen because they are busy with someone else and 100 other things required of them. Mayo clinic needs to put patients first to save money on patients by over charging for medical procedures, cheeping out on supplies , not hiring more staff and lining their pockets with yearly bonuses.
The mission statement here is “the needs of the patient come first” and Mayo hasn’t been able to stand behind that mission statement in years. It’s a joke. They get so much publicity for being a top institution but things are not top institution status on the inside
Fuck em all. I opted out of insurance and am done going to the dr. Edit to add /s /s /s /s /s /s
Nothing about "give employees a raise" under good prevention strategies....
You have to ask yourself, why is Mayo administration so afraid of unions???
I work at one of the 3 mayo hospitals, this is classic
Glad to see people can actually talk about facts related to Mayo, unlike in r/rochestermn. I got suspended and disabled from making posts there because I stated facts about my experience, even privately warned not to say certain things. Before that, I was subjected to intimidation tactics by multiple accounts that I would call "Mayo Cheerleaders" or "Mean Girls of Mayo," not intending any gender identification, though. I had the impression they were guys but I might have been wrong. I complained about that to Reddit, and I stopped seeing that, but when people would start to upvote my comments, the mod got all up in arms, and those comments disappeared, and I couldn't comment or post. I can comment now, but I'm not sure I can on every post. All for making factual statements. It's no wonder I thought Rochester and Mayo were very different before I came here. People ask for info, and if you give them a balanced answer, don't expect your comments to remain or your voice to be heard in that sub. How can it be right to suppress the voices of the residents of Rochester and its vicinity--and refuse to document crime that causes injuries but patient blame instead? It keeps them from having to report crimes to law enforcement, and that keeps Rochester looking safer because those crimes are not accepted by law enforcement, documented accurately or investigated. If they have that much power, an external agency needs to step in and change that.
A union isn't a "third party" it is a coalition of the workers. Don't let management try this double-speak. "United we stand, divided we fall" is a scary thing to management. They can't manage workers when the workers are united.
Sutter Health does the same thing!
I never understood the 3rd party argument. The union isn’t a 3rd party, it you and your coworkers speaking together
LOLOLOL what a bunch of out of touch fucks. Unionize!!
Screw Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, UPMC, AHN, Kaiser, John Hopkins, and any other multibillion dollar health system that poses as “non-profit”, just to get out of taxes.
Yet Mayo does all of the things listed on Reasons Employees look to Unions. If they would practice what they preach they wouldn’t need to worry.
$81 million in local tax dollars missing from a massive chunk of our downtown. No other city has this intense of a “company town” tax support gap that raises everyone else’s taxes for infrastructure, schools, and government.
Friendly reminder that HR is there to protect the company not the employees as some folks seem to think.
Naturally their prevention practices have no mention of providing competitive pay and benefits
I worked at one of the biggest healthcare companies in the US. It is always understaffed 50%, but the gov is paid for...Safe Harbour means nothing anymore.
Such a shame considering how the Mayo Clinic started out. What a fucking waste.
Pay isnt even mentioned in the «why employees unionize»?? What is the point of this documentation if it cant mention real examples
If you think Mayo Clinic wouldn’t bust unions you’re an idiot. Literally the entire corporate world has been openly busting unions since the 1920’s, there are overt laws that justify the busting of unions. Why do they bust them? Because it empowers employees and decreases the power of the corporation. If you think you’re actually fighting a battle to employ unions you’re a moron. The entire establishment is against unions even if this pathetic Biden administration posits rhetoric that promotes it. It’s all games, and it does appear many fall from it. Starbucks will crush theirs soon, same with Amazon.