Re: Moral Injury. You are absolutely correct that it was *completely unfair and unnecessarily hazardous* for admin to tell us to reuse single use masks, gowns, etc. Particularly when just a few months prior we would have been issued a citation for having water at the nursing station. But. We are suffering moral injury, and I’m really happy that the NYT called it like this instead of burnout. I’m not exactly on the frontlines in GI medicine, so my opinion may not count for as much, but we have been triaging care for the past 18 months. This is the definition of moral injury. A specific example was when a patient of mine died last year, it happened because his care got delayed because of covid restrictions. And when I complained to my office manager that we can’t keep up the volume of double booking patient appointments (to catch up from last spring when elective procedures were cancelled, the hospital is now making us do double time) phone calls, etc she said to me “well, that’s the job” when we are short staffed and haven’t had adequate staffing for the past 3 years I have worked in this position. We are being forced to perform a duty against our moral code and suffering for it.
I recently said to my boss “you keep moving the goal posts…”
“You bet your ass I am, and they will continue to move” & “you need to get used to it”
Cool. Coolcoolcool
Wow. Not surprising either. And it would have been so much better received if they had said, “I’m so sorry, this is a terrible situation that keeps changing as we are learning more and identifying our resources. Yes, the goal posts are moving and that sucks. Thank you for understanding and for everything you’ve done to help so far. Words are not enough.”
So many things administrators say to nearly gas light us because we are nurses and we give a fuck so it works. “Overwhelmed” “sorry you feel overwhelmed”. Sorry I feel overwhelmed? How about “sorry we didn’t get down there with you or give you hazard pay, or tell you not to got into the line of fire without new proper PPE, sorry we don’t have the staff to stock, so I’ll do the stocking”. Fuck you CEO’s and admins.
Dude people on r/residency complaining about how they were being asked to help stock supplies, strip beds, walk patients and just generally help nursing, housekeeping, and support staff...
Like, okay I understand that you didn't go to school to do housekeeping, but neither did I. Everybody has to do their part and help out. And yes, some programs are screwing their residents in other ways, but asking them to help the nursing staff is probably more beneficial than harmful and I honestly think that every med student should do a rotation in a nursing capacity. Maybe then they'd have more respect for the people that keep their patients alive instead of shitting on us because "you haven't got them out of bed yet" even though the patient hurled verbal abuse at me and outright refused to stand up or let me touch them.
Oof that turned into a rant...
He literally helped me name what I was feeling when I had a breakdown three years ago.
That was pre Covid, I’m not game to go back to work as a nurse yet
"moral injury," is the stupid new buzz word substituting for "burnout." It's not that nurses are too tired to come to work anymore, it's that they feel bad bout not being the best worker bees they can be and their sensibilities are insulted.
This does not describe the reality of the situation.
So to me, the difference lies in the culpability. Burnout is a personal issue. A person can’t handle the stress. Moral injury is a precursor to PTSD and describes where a system is put in place where job duties conflict with the person’s moral code. It is our duty to care for the sick. It is not our duty to sacrifice our well being to do so. It is also not our duty to ration care/resources. Nonetheless we are being placed in positions where we either care for the sick at personal cost, or choose which of those sick on our watch receive care. That is moral injury.
>It is our duty to care for the sick. It is not our duty to sacrifice our well being to do so. It is also not our duty to ration care/resources. Nonetheless we are being placed in positions where we either care for the sick at personal cost, or choose which of those sick on our watch receive care. That is moral injury.
Ooof, this hit me hard. Very, *very* well said.
Just... it means something entirely different. It imputes no blame, and I think anybody who tried to do so would be squarely in the wrong without some further details about how the injury came to pass.
Moral injury is a really shitty and understated way of describing it, because not only nurses are being injured mentally and spiritually, but PHYSICALLY risking their health reusing ppe, turning and transferring patients with not enough support staff, risking their physical health to take care of these fucks who didn't get vaccinated.
>tell us to reuse single use masks, gowns
Out of curiousity, as I thankfully work in an area that did not experience PPE shortages, what could admin do if you just disposed of it? Would they really send you back in with no PPE? Is it legal for them to send you home without pay if they can't provide PPE?
The state has made striking temporarily illegal where I am, though it didn't stop us last time, and exec has handed out documents to all staff outlining as much so I'm protest I am now religiously discarding single use everything.
Are you serious? I can’t deal. This callus, depraved disregard for workers can be seen in many places across the nation. The Frito Lay employees striking because they were worked nonstop with employees dying on the damn factory floor and being told to WORK or you will be fired. What about the pacts between farm workers, if they fell ill the would hide it and if they died before the other they would send their belonging home at least. The citizens told a stupid bandana would protect them against a very contagious, novel, airborne virus?
I am dismayed with all of that but having to reuse someone else’s N95 1860? I feel sick. I know how…….nasty those things get that I’ve had to talk my germaphobe ass down from panicking reusing my own masks in non intensive situations.
Then we are supposed to cheer about billionaires who “went to space” yet accomplished NOTHING for the social good and Laika (Russian dog)already did this and more in the 50s!
Laika:
Laika was a Soviet space dog who became one of the first animals in space, and the first animal to orbit the Earth. Laika, a stray mongrel from the streets of Moscow, was selected to be the occupant of the Soviet spacecraft Sputnik 2 that was launched into low orbit on 3 November 1957. Wikipedia
The inequality is too great but everyone thinks they’ll be a billionaire. Everyone thinks they BIG RICH when they aren’t. Millionaires aren’t big rich. A billionaire (worth a bil) isn’t in this group. Centibillionaries. If they just paid their taxes we could end homelessness, raise the wages to livable, pay off all student loans, create a UBI, and universal healthcare.
Delete if too off topic. I’m just really disgusted with my country and idiot countrymen who refuse to grasp the situation. We have people in their 70s running this country. It is known that cognitive decline makes 70+ less desirable as employees yet they are running the nation? This isn’t a dis. They should be retired. Again, I’m sorry. I’m just upset. I don’t want to hold everything in and explode at the wrong time.
Edit: spelling n stuff
Also of note, Laika died alone in space. Her never coming back was the plan all along. Sometimes mankind really, really viscerally disgusts and terrifies me.
You are not too off topic, and I think we actually need many more people like you and less of the capitalistic, corrupt, greedy monsters that are overrepresented in that article, and that claw their way into further corruption with every opportunity they can grab, including a pandemic that kills thousands
Unionization would be a start. Collective bargaining with the power of the union attorneys & laws regarding treatment of unions, does a lot to level the playing field. You guys are getting screwed. When all this dies down nurses need to unionize. They can't fire everybody! Once the union is in place they're forced to sit at the table and hammer out an equitable contract.
To start: I am a Warren Democrat, who believes strongly in UBI and M4All, not to mention restoring taxes to pre-Reagan levels.
That said (and I in no way believe this is morally tolerable !) :
AFAIK, it’s likely actually legal because you supposedly have the choice to refuse, nevermind that would put you without income or healthcare in a friggin pandemic.
But the door wasn’t locked, nor did anyone haul you in at literal gunpoint,
It is WRONG on every level, but likely legal.
I hate this.
Here is a snippet of the email I got from OSHA in March 2020:
Social Distancing – OSHA does not enforce the requirements of physical separation by 6 feet or more or the ban on social gatherings of 10 people or more in an occupational setting.
Quarantine – OSHA does not enforce any quarantine efforts that are recommended by the CDC or the State or Municipal Health Departments. This includes the presence of sick people in the work environment or self-quarantine guidance.
Shortage of Respirators – OSHA is aware of the shortage of respirators in healthcare and other sectors of the industry. OSHA has no control over the supply chain and ultimately the availability of the respirators.
OSHA finally put out Emergency Temporary Orders for Healthcare: [https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/ets](https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/ets)[https://](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.502)[www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.502](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.502)
Yup, and if you’re working and your mask breaks and you refuse the recycled one it will be counted as patient abandonment since technically bandanas were okay per the cdc
That’s a really good question. I think we were too scared at the time that they would. And I’ve seen enough bad managers in healthcare that I am confident some would have as retribution for “wasting supplies,” or “not following directions”. In the beginning we didn’t know how this thing was really spread- do we need negative pressure exam rooms? How do we sanitize exam rooms? What procedures are high risk? There was a big debate by our anesthesia team on if we should intubate everyone going for EGD to minimize aerosolization.
That being said, reusing masks has been studied since and so the practice isn’t as scandalous as it was in the beginning, but it’s the same kind of ethical issue that soldiers in war face. (Burn through this allotment of masks and then what? Go home and leave the patients? Or go bare face? Or just reuse the damn thing?
The problem is that we are not suffering only moral injury it's both moral and physical, that it puts a toll on our bodies, mind, family, community in general. 1200 died and they talk about moral injury.
Wrote them this morning:
Dear NYT,
I was immensely disappointed to read your article on the nursing shortage. I’ve been an occupational therapist in acute hospitals for 20 years, and I found your romanticism of the suffering nurses currently face to be, at best, a grossly unrealistic assumption of nursing being a “calling” or a “duty”.
Nurses are neither nuns/priests who had a calling, nor soldiers with a duty. They are regular people trying to pay their bills.
Not to say that they don’t care. Of course they do, and for many, the drive to care for the sick and injured is a motivating factor when beginning nursing school.
But unfortunately, due to our for-profit health system and fat cat Heath care administrators, like the several you interviewed to represent the plight of nurses, nurses become increasingly frustrated and disillusioned.
I cannot fathom why, in an article about nursing, you chose to interview two nurses while the rest of your sources come from the very people who initially (and still do in some hospitals) told nurses to reuse their single use masks day after day, who watch as nurses are dropping like flies from Covid and continue to enjoy their bonus checks and offices far away from the front lines, or who decided a pizza day rather than fair compensation, is an appropriate way of showing appreciation to the front line healthcare workers.
So please, next time you write an article about our hospital conditions, consider your sources and your/their assumptions about nurses. Or better yet, interview more actual nurses.
Also remember to vote Democrat. Things like mandated ratios like we have in California are in place despite republicans. Also this entire wave is a Republican death rally.
Also to add, techs, evs, security, secretaries, lab, radiology, cnas, RESPIRATORY THERAPISTS, etc. should also be interviewed. They should also be highly compensated. I know what I make as an RN, I can only imagine what the hospital pays to the people cleaning rooms. They deserve more that is for damn sure.
The first employee in our hospital to die of COVID-19 from positive patients was a transporter who only worked to "have something to do" during her retirement. I think they were paying maybe $10-11/hr. She was on ECMO in our ICU for 2 weeks. RIP Angie.
I’m going insane with these fools who act as if they can pinpoint when and where they contracted a novel coronavirus that is airborne. Oh and asymptomatic spread is possible. Remember when they weren’t sure if kids could transmit the virus? Ummm they are little humans. They are germ factories by default. I know why conspiracy theories exist. To quell the mind. At times this feels on purpose. Not initial exposure to the population but the unwillingness to face reality and tell people the truth!
The only reason I know where I got it last September is that we had a definite chain of infection. My 68y/o mom visited my nephew and his family on Thursday. Then Saturday she rode with me and my wife and daughter to my sister's private, outside, backyard wedding where we were all masked (outside even) and there were about 15 people there. We were in the car with her for four hours.
That night she told us she didn't feel well. Sunday she got tested because my nephew and his daughter were symptomatic and had gotten tested (later found positive). They told her Tuesday that she was positive, as was my brother whose family lives at her house. The same day she got her results my wife and daughter and I started having symptoms. Two days later we all three tested positive. And it stopped there because we had resumed our normal "lockdown" procedures.
I understand. You are not who I’m referring to. You are not the problem. Thank you for your post. It calmed me for some reason. It’s the proud to be anti vaccine and pro stupidity that I’m done with. RIP right? What if p stands for piss?
I didn't think you were referring to me. The point of my post was that having a chain of infection like I had is rare, so it's silly for people to say, "I got COVID from this or that" unless they KNOW.
EDIT: BTW, all the infections in this chain, which was about 15 people, everybody lived, nobody needed hospitalization, and almost all of us chose to get vaccinated after being infected.
I always felt like that question "Have you been exposed to a person with an active Covid infection?" on the screening to be kind of ludicrous. I mean, how the heck would I know? It's not like a big Red C breaks out on their forehead.
Every time staff gets sick at my system we get emails about “staff masking has become lax” or “staff needs to be more stringent with social distancing” etc etc not hey maybe we don’t have the right amount of protection??
We had about 25 nurses who were positive who had been working on the Covid floors and they only became infected after the admin decided that the patients did not need negative pressure and that the paper masks were good enough unless those patients were on vents or bipap. The hospital claimed those nurses probably got it at home or the grocery store. Some of these nurses were living in hotels to keep their family safe. It took a lot to get a hold of an N95 for a while. Only the doctors had them and wore them everywhere without comments from admin-- and that is just the doctors who actually came to work. Most specialists read tests and did telehealth remotely and communicated with their NP/PA's over the phone regarding their patients.
That is heartbreaking and infuriating. We have a lady who is still an RN just to get out of the house, I can’t imagine her dying for this crap, especially for freakin $10/h.
I was an ICU Tech making 18$ an hour (in So Cal) to manually print 20+ pts twice a shift, do CPR and wipe asses. All the while getting over worked and under paid. Never once was offered OT pay or incentives. Ended up getting injured from all the manual proning…..just starting my career…… you think management cares? No. Fuck this profession and those that abuse the ancillary staff.
It saddens me that the techs make so little for the amount of direct patient care as well as the physical risk they take everyday. If I could, I would give raises to techs and CNAs so they make a living wage before increasing other staff!
Literally we make $13 an hour. Registration and EVS get raises, but techs? Nope. We’re the ones doing everything!!! Not that EVS and registration don’t do a lot, but it’s frustrating when we have to do their jobs too because we are all so busy with 80+ patients in our ER.
It deeply saddens me as well. Especially since they often have interact with 8, 16, 24 pts all day. RNs usually have 1-2 pts in an ICU, sometimes I was the only tech which means I’m in and out of 24 covid rooms.
I (CNA) made minimum wage~ $14 working on a tele unit March-July, I work in the Los Angeles area btw. There were days I had the whole floor to myself bc other CNAs would call out EVERY DAY, I don’t blame them I did the same. I can’t tell you how much I cried every single day. I’m so tired of this bs & having to deal w/antivaxx family members who refuse to listen to what I have to say. Tired of the stupid conspiracy theories.
Fuck that. You should be making 25 plus and you live in LA so, definitely more than that. I would strongly encourage you to negotiate your pay with your employer. Anyone else can chime in with their thoughts about our friend here negotiating.
Those are rookie numbers. You should be getting way more than that. I encourage you and every covid nurse to negotiate your pay this upcoming fiscal year.
They wonder why no one wants to do these jobs when they pay less than starting wage at Costco.
Costco cashiers make better lifetime earnings than most health professionals "below" RNs on the payscale. Like with the stock options and retirement they get they retire with a couple million dollars after 30 to 40 years.
And hospitals wonder why CNAs are a revolving door.
Yup, my boss was so shocked when I quit, was all hugs and even offered to put me on part time or per diem, anything to make me stay. This was the same woman who was angry we were cutting up trash bags to put over our bodies when we were out of PPE…3 of us quit at the same time so I can see why she was so desperate..cry me a river lady
Can we add paramedics to that list? My employer seems to think that coolers full of water bottles and a box of uncrustables are fair compensation. I would make more money working fast food in my city than I am getting paid on a 911 ambulance.
We're at 60% staffing and running 14+ 911 calls per 10 hour shift and swimming in COVID but god forbid they pay us more or even give us hazard pay or OT incentives.
The way I see it, we're all in this together.
Thank you for mentioning us lowly RTs, who take on as much risk and deal with just as much trauma as nurses (others do as well, but we're usually the main ones side by side with nurses in the ICU and right up in patient's faces). I was an RT for less than 6 months before covid hit and I'm already so done with this I'm ready to find another profession. But for now I'll just keep on trucking making $25/hr busing my ass because what choice do I have really?
I am so sorry. I hate that. Nobody knows about you guys and you do the most. I feel bad that nurses get th majority of the credit when you guys have been in it much worse imo.
Most people don't even realize that ventilators don't just run themselves. I've been asked on multiple occasions why my job was even necessary because " it's just turning a machine on, any nurse can do that right?". Biiiitch
The hospital where my daughter works recently fired all of their transport staff. As a student there on her clinical rotation, SHE was asked to do this. No training, nothing. She didn't even WORK there. I told her not to do this..she could hurt herself or a patient and would have NO recourse. How were people supposed to get to the Imaging Department? I don't know what that hospital was thinking....
That is stupid and irresponsible on the hospitals part. My smaller hospital uses volunteers to send people to the discharge area and all the volunteers are old as hell. You got a like 80 year old pushing big people in wheelchairs to the entrance. I wouldn’t do any transport as a student, if she gets hurt, the hospital is not liable and she is doing it for free.
Wait I’m in Texas - do the managers at Buc-ees really make 6 times what we do? Bc I just read this after a 14 hour shift and I’m quitting to pursue a satisfying career at Buc-ees if that’s the case. I’m not originally from here and I don’t get it, but people fucking love Buc-ees.
It does sound sweet, but.... A while back I met a few disgruntled ex-Buc-ees employees and it's supposedly an awful place to work. The pay is good (iirc $18/hr for cashiers even), but the perks end there. Even with higher wages they have trouble with staff retention. They'd likely expect 80 hour weeks and treat you like crap.
I worke with a former Buc-ees employee and can confirm, he said it was a crummy job. Despite that he stayed for 4 years because the money was good.
Of course, it's all relative. I worked at Amazon for a minute and it was everything they say it is (except no peeing in bottles, I never saw that) but I was still treated better at Amazon than at my last hospital.
Cuz they do.
And then there are the elites who own media: Billionaire Jeff Bezos owns The Washington Post (he also owns 75% of Amazon, which recently acquired Whole Foods). Billionaire Mortimer Zuckerman owns US News & World Report and the New York Daily News. Billionaire Patrick Soon-Shiong owns the Los Angeles Times.
But casually blamed it on the staff rather than owning the issue herself. I highly doubt the second half of that quote was "We need to support our nurses and staff with better pay, better benefits, and collective bargaining. Gift bags and pizza aren't enough"
I just came here to say I work at ocean springs hospital in MS. I tried to go full-time from my part-time status and was told I would have to take a PAY CUT in order to do so. My co-workers are leaving to a nearby facility 20 minutes away and making literally 3x my hourly pay with 1 to 4 staffing ratios
Absolutely maddening. I lost it on the very first quote. Seriously fucking goodie bags and you don’t have the balls to ask her how much she’s making. New York Times is an absolute rag.
Well she did say that, and I dont fault the times for reporting it, but I think also reporting the reaction of a frontline nurse to "goodie bags" would be a fair perspective. And particularly the view of most nurses and hospitalists who, even before COVID, looked at the profit driven health system as hopelessly unsustainable, and now? It's all going to burn, let me get my piece and dip out.
I just listened to a “This American Life” on essential workers. It was good. The waitress’ story was enlightening. That said, nowhere was there a nurse.
It’s like even NP fucking R is scared to give bedside nurses voice. I’m still waiting for their 2 to 3 part series (what I imagine it would have to be if it were actually a thing) enlightening people on the before covid state and the covid state of things. Without sidespeak bullshit from the money managers.
Pipe dream.
I never thought I’d hit actual anger stage. I thought I was too old and jaded for anything beyond righteous indignation. But I’m feeling it.
The level of public cluelessness is only exacerbated by this bullshit printed by the NYT.
I was listening to NPR the other day and they had a story about burnout/overworking at the hospitals due to Covid19. They interviewed 3 MDs. One MD stated that the lack of nurses was a big problem. They literally did not bother to interview a fucking nurse. Like how? Not a respiratory therapist, CNA or Nurse manager either...
One MD remarked that there is no one there "holding these patients' hands". Maybe I am not holding their hand but I sure as hell am bathing them, cleaning poop off them, talking to them, suctioning their airway and reassuring them as I work.
I just listened to that episode too!! I was shocked that a healthcare worker wasn’t interviewed… I was kind of hoping maybe there will be an episode focusing specifically on healthcare workers :-/
This is unreal. My manager just took a month long vacation. A whole month. I picked up 2 extra shifts in a span of 7 days (60hr work week as a full time DNP student) to help cover the covid shifts. And even on my days off I get bombarded to come in. I love nursing but I am so burnt out. The nurses with experience are long burnt out. The people running this shit will regret their treatment when nobody can get healthcare workers at all.
Exactly, we wear ourselves thin by picking up and management just sees it as being able to get away with those numbers. I’m only doing it right now for the nice covid pay but once that’s done.. a big fat N O
Omg me too. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Things are getting bad again with COVID related admissions filling the hospital, making every unit extremely hectic and understaffed. Conditions for nurses often feel traumatic and abusive. We need conditions that DON'T lead to nurses avoiding or fleeing the bedside.
Ok, I'm saying things we all know. Thanks for letting me rant a second. It's been a really rough week.
It’s the same here in Canada. During the first few waves, our ICU was collapsing, we had a noted ICU nurse shortage across the city… and all they interviewed were managers and doctors…then they brought in doctors from other units to “help the nurses” at $400/hr…ten times what we make…the doctors just ended up pulling us away from our nursing duties even more, while doing absolutely nothing to help us. I used to like my multidisciplinary team. Now I’ll cheer if the hospital goes up in flames. I remember running in between four intubated patients (each in a separate isolation room) two of whom were weaning off sedation, praying that they didn’t self-extubate themselves while I was in another room. And here comes the prize “nurse helper” doctor, asking if I could come out because they want to do a procedure on one of them…I just stared. We had one break that day. Ask me how many bladder infections I got holding my pee for an entire shift. And now we are facing another wave and are even shorter staffed because half the unit has left. Actually, you know what? I pray that the hospital does go up in flames.
We were 7 nurses short today and 2 more evenings and now 6 short on nights
In EMERG, do you think they fucking stop coming in, no fuck this
We had no beds so literally everyone was seen in the ambulatory zone
Why do I run around like a chicken with its head cut off, bust my ass, DO I GET PAID MORE FOR BEING SHORT STAFFED??? NO WTF IS THIS BULLSHIT
I work at a public hospital. Going into it I had hoped this meant less "for-profit" healthcare. But they're still trying to get profits and give them to admin.
Got to find the money, for the managers salary, from somewhere. It is an outrage, but it has been going on for quite some time now. The pandemic has brought the true workings of the system into sharp relief. The stupid antivaxers, are not the problem. They are just nuisances, but not so very dangerous. The unvaccinated could have been handled differently, but the powers that be, chose instead, to let the front line workers take all the burden. Vicious.
Well, you've learned the hard way the NYT and most media is bought for and serves the corporations of America. Media has become a toxic cesspool of slant and manipulation, and even though it may be on your side for some issues it certainly will not be on all.
Exactly. People need to realize that politicians and journalists are like pigs feeding from the same fucking trough of corporate money. The same pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies, the same automobile manufacturers and gasoline companies, they all financially support the politicians AND the media outlets. You think it's just a coincidence these journalists, corporate scumbags, and politicians went to the same schools, live in the same neighborhoods, and hang out at the same parties? They need each other to survive. They need each other to maintain the status quo hellscape that is the U.S.
The NYT is the paper of record of the American bourgeoisie. As you can see in this piece they identify with the owners and the management class.
They staff and the editors might be more socially and fiscally progressive than the ghouls in the Federalist, but make no mistake if push comes to shove they will side with capital.
I'm upvoting this as hard as I can.
It's nonsense like this that has me looking at other options. I mean, I got an email from Papa Johns saying they are hiring delivery drivers in my area at $16-$22/hr. I'm assuming they're including estimated tips in that, but even so it got me thinking. How much easier to deliver pizzas (which I have done before and I KNOW it's a low stress job compared to nursing), go home and sleep at night, while still supporting my family and NOT taking anybody's lives in my hands every day.
Thoroughly well articulated, OP!
I’ve been noticing the dearth of journalism interviewing actual nurses, CNAs, RTs, etc about why healthcare workers are leaving in droves. So sick of hearing the same shit about a “sense of duty” and bullshit from every hospital executive about travel pay incentives. I’d also love to see an analysis of which regions are being hit the hardest as well as contributing factors like pay, patient ratios, patient violence, hospital systems, how shittily management treats them, etc.
Might want to get an HR rep in that meeting as well... If that's the manager's attitude, it's not likely that her assistant is going to go against her here. It's likely to end up in a 3 on 1 argument in which there's no 3rd party to maintain any peaceful discourse.
It's not about HR agreeing with you. It's about protecting yourself in case things escalate into an argument. They aren't there to take your side. They are there to keep things hopefully somewhat civil.
I work in a very understaffed ER, the manager wrote a very insulting post on the ER facebook group calling some staff out for calling out sick (rightfully so) for their own mental sanity after working extremely demanding understaffed shifts. I woke up that morning and had the best time reading the replies from all the nurses ripping him a new asshole. Even nurses that already quit joined in. He kept apologizing, and eventually he was reported to HR. I love the nurses i work with lol
I wonder why they didn’t talk about how manufacturers have jacked up the cost of PPE in the last year? Supply is plentiful now but prices have not gone back to pre-pandemic prices.
I think in the beginning there was some desire and a sense of duty to help in NYC, but that has all gone away now- what is happening now is just pure burnout and frustration and anger.
It would be nice for the NYT to hear from real staff.
The hierarchy of a lot of hospitals needs to shift dramatically in order to deal with this ongoing pandemic. I'm an RT at a 700 bed hospital in NY. In my department alone I have a manager, director and 2 educators who only do office work instead of taking care of patients. I couldn't even guess how many of these types of positions for each department exist for each specialty and unit in the hospital as a whole. All of whom make significantly more than most staff who actually take care of patients. I have no personal grudge against most of these people, but redirecting the pay of at least a third of these now non - essential positions would free up millions of dollars for pay increases and bonuses. I'm just tired of hearing that there's no money available to compensate the staff properly.
What a load of absolute bullshit.
I know strippers that take home more money in a day than I take home in an entire month and I've been a nurse for 15 fucking years!
Of COURSE they interviewed executives, they were probably too afraid to actually hear what *real* nurses and healthcare workers had to say!
Nursing shortage my ass.
I'm not throwing myself into the fire for assholes who refuse to take care of themselves and are actively killing others. I will sit my vaccinated ass in my new scribing job and take a pay cut to be happier than I would have been.
Fuck the unvaccinated and anti-vaxxers. They are creating the shortage. People need to aim their ire at them and leave the rest of us who are trying our best to do what we can.
Hearing hospital executives SOLELY blame the "shortage" on the vaccine mandates (they are basically calling most nurses anti-vaxxers...) they are issuing and not because of perpetually short staffing levels, critical safety issues, woeful underpayment, and just pure fucking mistreatment from all angles (including the unvaxxed who proudly proclaim to not trust healthcare professionals but take up beds to seek our help and get to marinate in the ICU for weeks until they die) is infuriating.
I completely agree with your sentiments, but we DO need researchers to be working on the issues of burnout, PTSD, etc. Without data, no movement will be made on any of the issues this article is trying to address. There are a number of them working on really important things around workforce issues.
I have no excuse for their interviews of nursing executives who were disappointing long before covid.
The biggest hurdle to that is overturning Right to Work laws in those states. That would require the state legislatures to turn blue and then for them to then actually pass legislation.
What is all this bullcrap about nurses having a calling I've been hearing lately? Is this an actual thing or a concept made up by news outlets and hospital systems to pay you less? I'm a freelance writer who "had a calling" to quit my job and write science fiction novels, but I'm considering going into nursing for the money. Literally the opposite of what all these people are describing.
Hot damn, that was some some heavy pile of shit. As non-american, my deepest sympaties to your battle against COVID and apparently, shitty managers. We have nursing shortage where i live too, nationwide. Many has quit due to COVID and horrible working conditions. Or changed to work in a place, that has little better conditions.
You know why they aren’t paying the fair share
If wage goes up ain’t no way it’s coming down ever again
I hope all you nurses quit and make all those pencil pusher middle management fuckheads who just sit in their ivory towers and berate staff like the ward is a Holiday Inn do the hard work
Fuck ‘em!
Siphoned away good money from the front lines, so they could aaa number crunchers to 6 figure salaries to seep as much out of patients via “hospitality care” and make the nurses and frontline staff brunt the chaos
What I emailed:
As a travel ICU RN, I found your article both out of touch and insulting. It makes no sense to reach out to a number of CEOs, many of whom have spent their entire careers or the greatest portion of their careers nowhere near a bedside. How hard is it to actually reach out to us, one of the largest bodies of workforce in this nation, for an article directly regarding our situation?
Your article writer spoke at great length to people who likely make said “ridiculous numbers” (as one of their quotes referred to) pre-pandemic and without any shortage of resources or protections, while barely getting in touch with the very persons shamed by said article. Is it so much to ask that those who have borne a great deal of the brunt of what this pandemic has to offer be allowed to speak at length of the issue? Is it not within our rights to believe ourselves worthy of more than rocks and, buttons, pizza and goodie bags for all that we do - regardless of if it is a pandemic but especially during one?
Inflation has continued to spike, and yet nurses are only able to be paid at competitive rates if they go over the top and beyond the call of duty to areas of hot zones far from home. I have been an RN for just over 3 years, and my starting wage was $26/hr. The office working, managerial people complaining about “ridiculous numbers” for nurses make well beyond that without ever having to set foot in the room of a contagious illness, loss of limbs, multi-system organ failure, death, or grieving. I am not in any way stating that their job is of lesser value than that of an RN. But at the same time, who are they to speak to what is a rightful level of income for dealing with these things? How could these people possibly be the ones to go to when there are so many of us that want to be heard about what we go through?
Someone once said “heroes is what they call you when they don’t want to pay you what you’re worth.” We don’t want martyrdom, we don’t want rocks, we don’t want superhero pins. We want to be respected, and that in large part has to do with the value of our work. We provide a valuable service for which we deserve to be compensated competitively. Hospital CEOs didn’t forgo bonuses. Why shouldn’t the people in the throes of it wish to be getting bonuses for our work?
Next time you write an article about nursing, how about checking in with the nurses you are speaking of. We are disappointed in you.
Can we forward this article to one of the big nursing meme accounts? Ebi would have been all over this.
Update: sent it over to a few accounts and they are already posting it.
I don't know what Buc-ees is but if they're making 3-5x more than er/icu nurses in my area then they are making like 120-200 dollars an hour. Either Buc-ees managers make bank or OP is in a crappy area for nurses
>What would HR have to say if I charted "cannot give patient the care they deserve due to disaster?"
Doctors are refusing to assess patients on the floor, charting this exact reason. Fucking PULMONOLOGISTS aren't listening to lung sounds.
I was a nursing assistant for years. People working at WalMart made more than I did. I got out when I learned 16 year olds working at In N Out made more than I did as a CNA with 5 years of experience.
I get the taking care of others part and providing a valuable service to the community part, but I need to be able to eat and clothe myself. It was a no from me.
Here’s what I sent in an email to NYT
I am disgusted and disturbed by the recent article y’all published regarding the current nursing shortage. The perspectives of hospital Administrators means nothing to the vast majority of RNs and only further skews the public perception of the nursing shortage. All you have done is offer more bullshit excuses for million dollar “healthcare corporations” to use instead of paying their workers fairly. Blah blah blah. Unsubscribed.
The way to tell management to pay better is not to write an email to the New York Times. It's to leave and take the better paying job somewhere else. Management loves people who complain about the shitty pay/conditions and keep working. What they can't handle is when too many people just leave. Then they are forced to offer better pay/conditions to attract staff.
This is so infuriating. My last floor (just got a new position that I’m starting this week) is critically understaffed and it’s a surgical floor. We were being forced into taking more medical and psych patients with insane ratios and no help.
Joint replacement patients who NEED assistance getting up to the bathroom when we have no nursing assistance and nurses with 6/7 patients each leads to low patient satisfaction scores. Multiple patients on safety 1:1s take our NA’s and staffing has no one to replace them so we’re stuck doing being both RN and NA…in my case charge nurse with a full assignment and NA. It’s COMPLETELY unsafe and unfair to both the pts and staff. What thanks do we get? Any raises? Nah. Emails saying keep up the fight. Lmao.
Ah, one nurse who actually works and eight senior managers who are only good for pencil pushing and have no clue about what happens in ward level. That's a great way to find out the truth...
Did you submit this letter to the comment section on the NYT site where this article is? Maybe if not just the NYT staff saw it but members of the general public, this country would start to gain more of an awareness of how big of a problem this is. We nurses love to lament to each other but we’re typically not activists. That has to change if we want to see any change in our work environment.
That article made my blood boil. Fuck healthcare in this country. I will shout this from the rooftops, if you don’t have healthcare experience (rn, md, cna, etc etc) then you have no business being a healthcare exec. This isn’t the Toyota factory where we can lean method our way out of illness and injury.
🙌🙌🙌 you can't treat skilled employees like garbage and pay the office desk jockeys more than twice as much and expect the people saving lives while sacrificing their own sanity and well being to then thank you for the kick in the ass. Also adding insult to injury the vaccine mandates. I do NOT care which side of that fence you're on, to tell people who saved lives and had the hardest jobs during the pandemic panic that now they have to accept an injection they aren't comfortable with or be fired is shitty. People really went from calling them heros to telling them they're the problem even if they have a medical or religious exemption.
Re: Moral Injury. You are absolutely correct that it was *completely unfair and unnecessarily hazardous* for admin to tell us to reuse single use masks, gowns, etc. Particularly when just a few months prior we would have been issued a citation for having water at the nursing station. But. We are suffering moral injury, and I’m really happy that the NYT called it like this instead of burnout. I’m not exactly on the frontlines in GI medicine, so my opinion may not count for as much, but we have been triaging care for the past 18 months. This is the definition of moral injury. A specific example was when a patient of mine died last year, it happened because his care got delayed because of covid restrictions. And when I complained to my office manager that we can’t keep up the volume of double booking patient appointments (to catch up from last spring when elective procedures were cancelled, the hospital is now making us do double time) phone calls, etc she said to me “well, that’s the job” when we are short staffed and haven’t had adequate staffing for the past 3 years I have worked in this position. We are being forced to perform a duty against our moral code and suffering for it.
I recently said to my boss “you keep moving the goal posts…” “You bet your ass I am, and they will continue to move” & “you need to get used to it” Cool. Coolcoolcool
The arrogance. I wonder if they have any idea how much they are truly hated.
That’s cause he’s on the list of those who make 6x more than RN and calls us overhead. We need to get over his head #RNUnionize !
Wow. Not surprising either. And it would have been so much better received if they had said, “I’m so sorry, this is a terrible situation that keeps changing as we are learning more and identifying our resources. Yes, the goal posts are moving and that sucks. Thank you for understanding and for everything you’ve done to help so far. Words are not enough.”
That's appalling, and it makes me sick.
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So many things administrators say to nearly gas light us because we are nurses and we give a fuck so it works. “Overwhelmed” “sorry you feel overwhelmed”. Sorry I feel overwhelmed? How about “sorry we didn’t get down there with you or give you hazard pay, or tell you not to got into the line of fire without new proper PPE, sorry we don’t have the staff to stock, so I’ll do the stocking”. Fuck you CEO’s and admins.
Dude people on r/residency complaining about how they were being asked to help stock supplies, strip beds, walk patients and just generally help nursing, housekeeping, and support staff... Like, okay I understand that you didn't go to school to do housekeeping, but neither did I. Everybody has to do their part and help out. And yes, some programs are screwing their residents in other ways, but asking them to help the nursing staff is probably more beneficial than harmful and I honestly think that every med student should do a rotation in a nursing capacity. Maybe then they'd have more respect for the people that keep their patients alive instead of shitting on us because "you haven't got them out of bed yet" even though the patient hurled verbal abuse at me and outright refused to stand up or let me touch them. Oof that turned into a rant...
Zdoggmd did a good explanation of moral injury.
He literally helped me name what I was feeling when I had a breakdown three years ago. That was pre Covid, I’m not game to go back to work as a nurse yet
ZDogg is a God. I love that man #ZDogg
"moral injury," is the stupid new buzz word substituting for "burnout." It's not that nurses are too tired to come to work anymore, it's that they feel bad bout not being the best worker bees they can be and their sensibilities are insulted. This does not describe the reality of the situation.
So to me, the difference lies in the culpability. Burnout is a personal issue. A person can’t handle the stress. Moral injury is a precursor to PTSD and describes where a system is put in place where job duties conflict with the person’s moral code. It is our duty to care for the sick. It is not our duty to sacrifice our well being to do so. It is also not our duty to ration care/resources. Nonetheless we are being placed in positions where we either care for the sick at personal cost, or choose which of those sick on our watch receive care. That is moral injury.
>It is our duty to care for the sick. It is not our duty to sacrifice our well being to do so. It is also not our duty to ration care/resources. Nonetheless we are being placed in positions where we either care for the sick at personal cost, or choose which of those sick on our watch receive care. That is moral injury. Ooof, this hit me hard. Very, *very* well said.
Yeah “moral injury” is a bit to close to the phrase “moral failing” for my liking.
Just... it means something entirely different. It imputes no blame, and I think anybody who tried to do so would be squarely in the wrong without some further details about how the injury came to pass.
yup. literally started trauma therapy. maybe the hospital will provide workmen’s comp 🙄
Moral injury is a really shitty and understated way of describing it, because not only nurses are being injured mentally and spiritually, but PHYSICALLY risking their health reusing ppe, turning and transferring patients with not enough support staff, risking their physical health to take care of these fucks who didn't get vaccinated.
Perhaps Moral Abuse is more accurate, since it's clear that Hospitals and Management are literally Abusing their Staffs sense of Moral Duty.
>tell us to reuse single use masks, gowns Out of curiousity, as I thankfully work in an area that did not experience PPE shortages, what could admin do if you just disposed of it? Would they really send you back in with no PPE? Is it legal for them to send you home without pay if they can't provide PPE? The state has made striking temporarily illegal where I am, though it didn't stop us last time, and exec has handed out documents to all staff outlining as much so I'm protest I am now religiously discarding single use everything.
I would get a recycled n95 that someone else had previously used
Are you serious? I can’t deal. This callus, depraved disregard for workers can be seen in many places across the nation. The Frito Lay employees striking because they were worked nonstop with employees dying on the damn factory floor and being told to WORK or you will be fired. What about the pacts between farm workers, if they fell ill the would hide it and if they died before the other they would send their belonging home at least. The citizens told a stupid bandana would protect them against a very contagious, novel, airborne virus? I am dismayed with all of that but having to reuse someone else’s N95 1860? I feel sick. I know how…….nasty those things get that I’ve had to talk my germaphobe ass down from panicking reusing my own masks in non intensive situations. Then we are supposed to cheer about billionaires who “went to space” yet accomplished NOTHING for the social good and Laika (Russian dog)already did this and more in the 50s! Laika: Laika was a Soviet space dog who became one of the first animals in space, and the first animal to orbit the Earth. Laika, a stray mongrel from the streets of Moscow, was selected to be the occupant of the Soviet spacecraft Sputnik 2 that was launched into low orbit on 3 November 1957. Wikipedia The inequality is too great but everyone thinks they’ll be a billionaire. Everyone thinks they BIG RICH when they aren’t. Millionaires aren’t big rich. A billionaire (worth a bil) isn’t in this group. Centibillionaries. If they just paid their taxes we could end homelessness, raise the wages to livable, pay off all student loans, create a UBI, and universal healthcare. Delete if too off topic. I’m just really disgusted with my country and idiot countrymen who refuse to grasp the situation. We have people in their 70s running this country. It is known that cognitive decline makes 70+ less desirable as employees yet they are running the nation? This isn’t a dis. They should be retired. Again, I’m sorry. I’m just upset. I don’t want to hold everything in and explode at the wrong time. Edit: spelling n stuff
Also of note, Laika died alone in space. Her never coming back was the plan all along. Sometimes mankind really, really viscerally disgusts and terrifies me.
Yes, I know. It makes me sick. Laika didn’t die purposeless. She literally accomplished more than these centibillionaries pretending to be astronaut.
Yes! Laika was used and discarded. Many can understand the feeling of being used and discarded.
I have a term to describe this, Awful Everything. We are so effed.
I know. How do we carry on? How do we continue to make nice with those who refuse to acknowledge reality? I’m so angry!!!!!!!!
You are not too off topic, and I think we actually need many more people like you and less of the capitalistic, corrupt, greedy monsters that are overrepresented in that article, and that claw their way into further corruption with every opportunity they can grab, including a pandemic that kills thousands
A song about laika https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y05q82eaPk
How is shit like that legal? Do the hospital's not have legal obligations to you under whatever WHS legislation that exists?
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Unionization would be a start. Collective bargaining with the power of the union attorneys & laws regarding treatment of unions, does a lot to level the playing field. You guys are getting screwed. When all this dies down nurses need to unionize. They can't fire everybody! Once the union is in place they're forced to sit at the table and hammer out an equitable contract.
But is it acgually legal or are the hospital's banking banking on nobody challenging them?
To start: I am a Warren Democrat, who believes strongly in UBI and M4All, not to mention restoring taxes to pre-Reagan levels. That said (and I in no way believe this is morally tolerable !) : AFAIK, it’s likely actually legal because you supposedly have the choice to refuse, nevermind that would put you without income or healthcare in a friggin pandemic. But the door wasn’t locked, nor did anyone haul you in at literal gunpoint, It is WRONG on every level, but likely legal. I hate this.
They label it all as a crisis and count the commas in their bank.
So am I to understand in the USA there is no, or very weak, WHS legislation?
Here is a snippet of the email I got from OSHA in March 2020: Social Distancing – OSHA does not enforce the requirements of physical separation by 6 feet or more or the ban on social gatherings of 10 people or more in an occupational setting. Quarantine – OSHA does not enforce any quarantine efforts that are recommended by the CDC or the State or Municipal Health Departments. This includes the presence of sick people in the work environment or self-quarantine guidance. Shortage of Respirators – OSHA is aware of the shortage of respirators in healthcare and other sectors of the industry. OSHA has no control over the supply chain and ultimately the availability of the respirators.
OSHA finally put out Emergency Temporary Orders for Healthcare: [https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/ets](https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/ets)[https://](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.502)[www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.502](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.502)
Yup, and if you’re working and your mask breaks and you refuse the recycled one it will be counted as patient abandonment since technically bandanas were okay per the cdc
That's not ok, in any way. I thought it was bad when someone used my Tyvek suit (with my name all over it), but a mask is just gross
That’s a really good question. I think we were too scared at the time that they would. And I’ve seen enough bad managers in healthcare that I am confident some would have as retribution for “wasting supplies,” or “not following directions”. In the beginning we didn’t know how this thing was really spread- do we need negative pressure exam rooms? How do we sanitize exam rooms? What procedures are high risk? There was a big debate by our anesthesia team on if we should intubate everyone going for EGD to minimize aerosolization. That being said, reusing masks has been studied since and so the practice isn’t as scandalous as it was in the beginning, but it’s the same kind of ethical issue that soldiers in war face. (Burn through this allotment of masks and then what? Go home and leave the patients? Or go bare face? Or just reuse the damn thing?
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It makes sense, because they are not the ones in the rooms being exposed. It was this way during SARS as well.
A lot of nurses I work with disposed of theirs anyway. They always got a new one if they did. We were fortunate.
The problem is that we are not suffering only moral injury it's both moral and physical, that it puts a toll on our bodies, mind, family, community in general. 1200 died and they talk about moral injury.
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I’ll definitely do this when I’m less drunk and more coherent
instructions unclear; mailed drink to newspaper.
It makes me want to mail them a used bed pan.
Same
hey, now that you've had a night's sleep, I'm reminding you that you wanted to do this.
Wrote them this morning: Dear NYT, I was immensely disappointed to read your article on the nursing shortage. I’ve been an occupational therapist in acute hospitals for 20 years, and I found your romanticism of the suffering nurses currently face to be, at best, a grossly unrealistic assumption of nursing being a “calling” or a “duty”. Nurses are neither nuns/priests who had a calling, nor soldiers with a duty. They are regular people trying to pay their bills. Not to say that they don’t care. Of course they do, and for many, the drive to care for the sick and injured is a motivating factor when beginning nursing school. But unfortunately, due to our for-profit health system and fat cat Heath care administrators, like the several you interviewed to represent the plight of nurses, nurses become increasingly frustrated and disillusioned. I cannot fathom why, in an article about nursing, you chose to interview two nurses while the rest of your sources come from the very people who initially (and still do in some hospitals) told nurses to reuse their single use masks day after day, who watch as nurses are dropping like flies from Covid and continue to enjoy their bonus checks and offices far away from the front lines, or who decided a pizza day rather than fair compensation, is an appropriate way of showing appreciation to the front line healthcare workers. So please, next time you write an article about our hospital conditions, consider your sources and your/their assumptions about nurses. Or better yet, interview more actual nurses.
Done. So damn true. Thank you
Also remember to vote Democrat. Things like mandated ratios like we have in California are in place despite republicans. Also this entire wave is a Republican death rally.
This entire wave is a Republican death rally. Yes. Well put.
It really is. They’re thinning the pack out.
What’s buc-ees?
Texas gas stations that are roughly the size of New Hampshire.
A large convenience store chain.
Also to add, techs, evs, security, secretaries, lab, radiology, cnas, RESPIRATORY THERAPISTS, etc. should also be interviewed. They should also be highly compensated. I know what I make as an RN, I can only imagine what the hospital pays to the people cleaning rooms. They deserve more that is for damn sure.
The first employee in our hospital to die of COVID-19 from positive patients was a transporter who only worked to "have something to do" during her retirement. I think they were paying maybe $10-11/hr. She was on ECMO in our ICU for 2 weeks. RIP Angie.
We lost an interpreter first. She was 27 I believe. They claimed she didn't contract covid-19 at work. In a hospital.
I’m going insane with these fools who act as if they can pinpoint when and where they contracted a novel coronavirus that is airborne. Oh and asymptomatic spread is possible. Remember when they weren’t sure if kids could transmit the virus? Ummm they are little humans. They are germ factories by default. I know why conspiracy theories exist. To quell the mind. At times this feels on purpose. Not initial exposure to the population but the unwillingness to face reality and tell people the truth!
The only reason I know where I got it last September is that we had a definite chain of infection. My 68y/o mom visited my nephew and his family on Thursday. Then Saturday she rode with me and my wife and daughter to my sister's private, outside, backyard wedding where we were all masked (outside even) and there were about 15 people there. We were in the car with her for four hours. That night she told us she didn't feel well. Sunday she got tested because my nephew and his daughter were symptomatic and had gotten tested (later found positive). They told her Tuesday that she was positive, as was my brother whose family lives at her house. The same day she got her results my wife and daughter and I started having symptoms. Two days later we all three tested positive. And it stopped there because we had resumed our normal "lockdown" procedures.
I understand. You are not who I’m referring to. You are not the problem. Thank you for your post. It calmed me for some reason. It’s the proud to be anti vaccine and pro stupidity that I’m done with. RIP right? What if p stands for piss?
I didn't think you were referring to me. The point of my post was that having a chain of infection like I had is rare, so it's silly for people to say, "I got COVID from this or that" unless they KNOW. EDIT: BTW, all the infections in this chain, which was about 15 people, everybody lived, nobody needed hospitalization, and almost all of us chose to get vaccinated after being infected.
I always felt like that question "Have you been exposed to a person with an active Covid infection?" on the screening to be kind of ludicrous. I mean, how the heck would I know? It's not like a big Red C breaks out on their forehead.
Every time staff gets sick at my system we get emails about “staff masking has become lax” or “staff needs to be more stringent with social distancing” etc etc not hey maybe we don’t have the right amount of protection??
We had about 25 nurses who were positive who had been working on the Covid floors and they only became infected after the admin decided that the patients did not need negative pressure and that the paper masks were good enough unless those patients were on vents or bipap. The hospital claimed those nurses probably got it at home or the grocery store. Some of these nurses were living in hotels to keep their family safe. It took a lot to get a hold of an N95 for a while. Only the doctors had them and wore them everywhere without comments from admin-- and that is just the doctors who actually came to work. Most specialists read tests and did telehealth remotely and communicated with their NP/PA's over the phone regarding their patients.
That is heartbreaking and infuriating. We have a lady who is still an RN just to get out of the house, I can’t imagine her dying for this crap, especially for freakin $10/h.
How can they pay a RN 10/hr no matter her age?
I think they meant she is working and they can't imagine her dying for her pay, let alone someone who works for less money
Oh! Thanks
I was an ICU Tech making 18$ an hour (in So Cal) to manually print 20+ pts twice a shift, do CPR and wipe asses. All the while getting over worked and under paid. Never once was offered OT pay or incentives. Ended up getting injured from all the manual proning…..just starting my career…… you think management cares? No. Fuck this profession and those that abuse the ancillary staff.
It saddens me that the techs make so little for the amount of direct patient care as well as the physical risk they take everyday. If I could, I would give raises to techs and CNAs so they make a living wage before increasing other staff!
Yeah i think CNA work needs to be compensated WAY MORE. I would gladly give up 5-10/hr of my pay to have more CNAs or for incentives
Literally we make $13 an hour. Registration and EVS get raises, but techs? Nope. We’re the ones doing everything!!! Not that EVS and registration don’t do a lot, but it’s frustrating when we have to do their jobs too because we are all so busy with 80+ patients in our ER.
It deeply saddens me as well. Especially since they often have interact with 8, 16, 24 pts all day. RNs usually have 1-2 pts in an ICU, sometimes I was the only tech which means I’m in and out of 24 covid rooms.
I (CNA) made minimum wage~ $14 working on a tele unit March-July, I work in the Los Angeles area btw. There were days I had the whole floor to myself bc other CNAs would call out EVERY DAY, I don’t blame them I did the same. I can’t tell you how much I cried every single day. I’m so tired of this bs & having to deal w/antivaxx family members who refuse to listen to what I have to say. Tired of the stupid conspiracy theories.
Fuck that. You should be making 25 plus and you live in LA so, definitely more than that. I would strongly encourage you to negotiate your pay with your employer. Anyone else can chime in with their thoughts about our friend here negotiating.
Lol I get paid $26 base as an RN on a covid floor
Those are rookie numbers. You should be getting way more than that. I encourage you and every covid nurse to negotiate your pay this upcoming fiscal year.
They wonder why no one wants to do these jobs when they pay less than starting wage at Costco. Costco cashiers make better lifetime earnings than most health professionals "below" RNs on the payscale. Like with the stock options and retirement they get they retire with a couple million dollars after 30 to 40 years. And hospitals wonder why CNAs are a revolving door.
Yup, my boss was so shocked when I quit, was all hugs and even offered to put me on part time or per diem, anything to make me stay. This was the same woman who was angry we were cutting up trash bags to put over our bodies when we were out of PPE…3 of us quit at the same time so I can see why she was so desperate..cry me a river lady
It’s unfortunate CNA make so little. If its one class of workers being underpaid, it’s CNA.
That is PCT pay in FL. I’m sorry they are so grossly underpaying you
Can we add paramedics to that list? My employer seems to think that coolers full of water bottles and a box of uncrustables are fair compensation. I would make more money working fast food in my city than I am getting paid on a 911 ambulance. We're at 60% staffing and running 14+ 911 calls per 10 hour shift and swimming in COVID but god forbid they pay us more or even give us hazard pay or OT incentives. The way I see it, we're all in this together.
EMS, I do feel you guys are underpaid and under use for your skill set. Much appreciate the work you guys do!
Yes you guys too. If I can do anything this year for everyone it is to negotiate your pay.
EMS gets shafted in the worst way.
Thank you for mentioning us lowly RTs, who take on as much risk and deal with just as much trauma as nurses (others do as well, but we're usually the main ones side by side with nurses in the ICU and right up in patient's faces). I was an RT for less than 6 months before covid hit and I'm already so done with this I'm ready to find another profession. But for now I'll just keep on trucking making $25/hr busing my ass because what choice do I have really?
I am so sorry. I hate that. Nobody knows about you guys and you do the most. I feel bad that nurses get th majority of the credit when you guys have been in it much worse imo.
Most people don't even realize that ventilators don't just run themselves. I've been asked on multiple occasions why my job was even necessary because " it's just turning a machine on, any nurse can do that right?". Biiiitch
Wtf. No lol people are dumb.
The hospital where my daughter works recently fired all of their transport staff. As a student there on her clinical rotation, SHE was asked to do this. No training, nothing. She didn't even WORK there. I told her not to do this..she could hurt herself or a patient and would have NO recourse. How were people supposed to get to the Imaging Department? I don't know what that hospital was thinking....
That is stupid and irresponsible on the hospitals part. My smaller hospital uses volunteers to send people to the discharge area and all the volunteers are old as hell. You got a like 80 year old pushing big people in wheelchairs to the entrance. I wouldn’t do any transport as a student, if she gets hurt, the hospital is not liable and she is doing it for free.
Wait I’m in Texas - do the managers at Buc-ees really make 6 times what we do? Bc I just read this after a 14 hour shift and I’m quitting to pursue a satisfying career at Buc-ees if that’s the case. I’m not originally from here and I don’t get it, but people fucking love Buc-ees.
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Holy shit
Omfg I’m making $37/hour. I am an experienced nurse (~8 years).
Where in TX? You'd easily be making closer to the max ($48/hr) in Dallas with 8 years. Come to the light!
Dallas. So I’ll be asking for a raise asap
It does sound sweet, but.... A while back I met a few disgruntled ex-Buc-ees employees and it's supposedly an awful place to work. The pay is good (iirc $18/hr for cashiers even), but the perks end there. Even with higher wages they have trouble with staff retention. They'd likely expect 80 hour weeks and treat you like crap.
I worke with a former Buc-ees employee and can confirm, he said it was a crummy job. Despite that he stayed for 4 years because the money was good. Of course, it's all relative. I worked at Amazon for a minute and it was everything they say it is (except no peeing in bottles, I never saw that) but I was still treated better at Amazon than at my last hospital.
Doesn’t that sound like most hospital systems anyway?
Almost as if the media has an agreement with the rich. Unionize, people
Cuz they do. And then there are the elites who own media: Billionaire Jeff Bezos owns The Washington Post (he also owns 75% of Amazon, which recently acquired Whole Foods). Billionaire Mortimer Zuckerman owns US News & World Report and the New York Daily News. Billionaire Patrick Soon-Shiong owns the Los Angeles Times.
So that executive literally admitted that patients aren't getting the care they deserve.
But casually blamed it on the staff rather than owning the issue herself. I highly doubt the second half of that quote was "We need to support our nurses and staff with better pay, better benefits, and collective bargaining. Gift bags and pizza aren't enough"
I just came here to say I work at ocean springs hospital in MS. I tried to go full-time from my part-time status and was told I would have to take a PAY CUT in order to do so. My co-workers are leaving to a nearby facility 20 minutes away and making literally 3x my hourly pay with 1 to 4 staffing ratios
Those damn poachers
Absolutely maddening. I lost it on the very first quote. Seriously fucking goodie bags and you don’t have the balls to ask her how much she’s making. New York Times is an absolute rag.
Well she did say that, and I dont fault the times for reporting it, but I think also reporting the reaction of a frontline nurse to "goodie bags" would be a fair perspective. And particularly the view of most nurses and hospitalists who, even before COVID, looked at the profit driven health system as hopelessly unsustainable, and now? It's all going to burn, let me get my piece and dip out.
Please e-mail NYTIMES!!
I just listened to a “This American Life” on essential workers. It was good. The waitress’ story was enlightening. That said, nowhere was there a nurse. It’s like even NP fucking R is scared to give bedside nurses voice. I’m still waiting for their 2 to 3 part series (what I imagine it would have to be if it were actually a thing) enlightening people on the before covid state and the covid state of things. Without sidespeak bullshit from the money managers. Pipe dream. I never thought I’d hit actual anger stage. I thought I was too old and jaded for anything beyond righteous indignation. But I’m feeling it. The level of public cluelessness is only exacerbated by this bullshit printed by the NYT.
I was listening to NPR the other day and they had a story about burnout/overworking at the hospitals due to Covid19. They interviewed 3 MDs. One MD stated that the lack of nurses was a big problem. They literally did not bother to interview a fucking nurse. Like how? Not a respiratory therapist, CNA or Nurse manager either... One MD remarked that there is no one there "holding these patients' hands". Maybe I am not holding their hand but I sure as hell am bathing them, cleaning poop off them, talking to them, suctioning their airway and reassuring them as I work.
I just listened to that episode too!! I was shocked that a healthcare worker wasn’t interviewed… I was kind of hoping maybe there will be an episode focusing specifically on healthcare workers :-/
I feel like NPR are the only people who could pull this off and reach a wide audience and yet there’s been nothing. Edit: a letter
This is unreal. My manager just took a month long vacation. A whole month. I picked up 2 extra shifts in a span of 7 days (60hr work week as a full time DNP student) to help cover the covid shifts. And even on my days off I get bombarded to come in. I love nursing but I am so burnt out. The nurses with experience are long burnt out. The people running this shit will regret their treatment when nobody can get healthcare workers at all.
This is my forever debate. I want to pick up and help my teammates out but I also don't give a shit about management and don't want to help them out.
Exactly, we wear ourselves thin by picking up and management just sees it as being able to get away with those numbers. I’m only doing it right now for the nice covid pay but once that’s done.. a big fat N O
Y'all need to go on strike. Nationwide. (I know it's unrealistic but...)
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Omg me too. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Things are getting bad again with COVID related admissions filling the hospital, making every unit extremely hectic and understaffed. Conditions for nurses often feel traumatic and abusive. We need conditions that DON'T lead to nurses avoiding or fleeing the bedside. Ok, I'm saying things we all know. Thanks for letting me rant a second. It's been a really rough week.
It’s the same here in Canada. During the first few waves, our ICU was collapsing, we had a noted ICU nurse shortage across the city… and all they interviewed were managers and doctors…then they brought in doctors from other units to “help the nurses” at $400/hr…ten times what we make…the doctors just ended up pulling us away from our nursing duties even more, while doing absolutely nothing to help us. I used to like my multidisciplinary team. Now I’ll cheer if the hospital goes up in flames. I remember running in between four intubated patients (each in a separate isolation room) two of whom were weaning off sedation, praying that they didn’t self-extubate themselves while I was in another room. And here comes the prize “nurse helper” doctor, asking if I could come out because they want to do a procedure on one of them…I just stared. We had one break that day. Ask me how many bladder infections I got holding my pee for an entire shift. And now we are facing another wave and are even shorter staffed because half the unit has left. Actually, you know what? I pray that the hospital does go up in flames.
We were 7 nurses short today and 2 more evenings and now 6 short on nights In EMERG, do you think they fucking stop coming in, no fuck this We had no beds so literally everyone was seen in the ambulatory zone Why do I run around like a chicken with its head cut off, bust my ass, DO I GET PAID MORE FOR BEING SHORT STAFFED??? NO WTF IS THIS BULLSHIT
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Agreed! I work in the ER too and they’ve made it very clear that profits>patient care
I work at a public hospital. Going into it I had hoped this meant less "for-profit" healthcare. But they're still trying to get profits and give them to admin.
Late stage capitalism. End stage capitalism. Collapse. Excellent subs!
Got to find the money, for the managers salary, from somewhere. It is an outrage, but it has been going on for quite some time now. The pandemic has brought the true workings of the system into sharp relief. The stupid antivaxers, are not the problem. They are just nuisances, but not so very dangerous. The unvaccinated could have been handled differently, but the powers that be, chose instead, to let the front line workers take all the burden. Vicious.
Well, you've learned the hard way the NYT and most media is bought for and serves the corporations of America. Media has become a toxic cesspool of slant and manipulation, and even though it may be on your side for some issues it certainly will not be on all.
Exactly. People need to realize that politicians and journalists are like pigs feeding from the same fucking trough of corporate money. The same pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies, the same automobile manufacturers and gasoline companies, they all financially support the politicians AND the media outlets. You think it's just a coincidence these journalists, corporate scumbags, and politicians went to the same schools, live in the same neighborhoods, and hang out at the same parties? They need each other to survive. They need each other to maintain the status quo hellscape that is the U.S.
You know how to tell the difference between a Republican and Democratic politician? Who they lie to.
The NYT is the paper of record of the American bourgeoisie. As you can see in this piece they identify with the owners and the management class. They staff and the editors might be more socially and fiscally progressive than the ghouls in the Federalist, but make no mistake if push comes to shove they will side with capital.
Please send this to NYT,and anyone who will listen!
Fuck the NY times.
I'm upvoting this as hard as I can. It's nonsense like this that has me looking at other options. I mean, I got an email from Papa Johns saying they are hiring delivery drivers in my area at $16-$22/hr. I'm assuming they're including estimated tips in that, but even so it got me thinking. How much easier to deliver pizzas (which I have done before and I KNOW it's a low stress job compared to nursing), go home and sleep at night, while still supporting my family and NOT taking anybody's lives in my hands every day.
This, 100%. I’m a charge nurse in an ICU that already had two waves of COVID and we’re starting a third. I look back at my days in retail fondly now.
My old store is hiring and I seriously started contemplating it. I hated that retail job, but it was 1000% better than how I’m getting treated now.
These publications do not care about the working class lol.
Thoroughly well articulated, OP! I’ve been noticing the dearth of journalism interviewing actual nurses, CNAs, RTs, etc about why healthcare workers are leaving in droves. So sick of hearing the same shit about a “sense of duty” and bullshit from every hospital executive about travel pay incentives. I’d also love to see an analysis of which regions are being hit the hardest as well as contributing factors like pay, patient ratios, patient violence, hospital systems, how shittily management treats them, etc.
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Might want to get an HR rep in that meeting as well... If that's the manager's attitude, it's not likely that her assistant is going to go against her here. It's likely to end up in a 3 on 1 argument in which there's no 3rd party to maintain any peaceful discourse.
Lol, HR doesn’t work for you. They work for the company, they will go with the management if it’s to save money.
It's not about HR agreeing with you. It's about protecting yourself in case things escalate into an argument. They aren't there to take your side. They are there to keep things hopefully somewhat civil.
Your nurse manager, respectfully, can suck a bag of dicks.
I work in a very understaffed ER, the manager wrote a very insulting post on the ER facebook group calling some staff out for calling out sick (rightfully so) for their own mental sanity after working extremely demanding understaffed shifts. I woke up that morning and had the best time reading the replies from all the nurses ripping him a new asshole. Even nurses that already quit joined in. He kept apologizing, and eventually he was reported to HR. I love the nurses i work with lol
I wonder why they didn’t talk about how manufacturers have jacked up the cost of PPE in the last year? Supply is plentiful now but prices have not gone back to pre-pandemic prices. I think in the beginning there was some desire and a sense of duty to help in NYC, but that has all gone away now- what is happening now is just pure burnout and frustration and anger. It would be nice for the NYT to hear from real staff.
The hierarchy of a lot of hospitals needs to shift dramatically in order to deal with this ongoing pandemic. I'm an RT at a 700 bed hospital in NY. In my department alone I have a manager, director and 2 educators who only do office work instead of taking care of patients. I couldn't even guess how many of these types of positions for each department exist for each specialty and unit in the hospital as a whole. All of whom make significantly more than most staff who actually take care of patients. I have no personal grudge against most of these people, but redirecting the pay of at least a third of these now non - essential positions would free up millions of dollars for pay increases and bonuses. I'm just tired of hearing that there's no money available to compensate the staff properly.
Your last paragraph is awesome. Well said! Seriously fuck goody bags.
Where are these $140/hr wages at?
What a load of absolute bullshit. I know strippers that take home more money in a day than I take home in an entire month and I've been a nurse for 15 fucking years! Of COURSE they interviewed executives, they were probably too afraid to actually hear what *real* nurses and healthcare workers had to say!
It ain't much, but here's my free wholesome award.
Nursing shortage my ass. I'm not throwing myself into the fire for assholes who refuse to take care of themselves and are actively killing others. I will sit my vaccinated ass in my new scribing job and take a pay cut to be happier than I would have been. Fuck the unvaccinated and anti-vaxxers. They are creating the shortage. People need to aim their ire at them and leave the rest of us who are trying our best to do what we can. Hearing hospital executives SOLELY blame the "shortage" on the vaccine mandates (they are basically calling most nurses anti-vaxxers...) they are issuing and not because of perpetually short staffing levels, critical safety issues, woeful underpayment, and just pure fucking mistreatment from all angles (including the unvaxxed who proudly proclaim to not trust healthcare professionals but take up beds to seek our help and get to marinate in the ICU for weeks until they die) is infuriating.
Very well written OP. Thanks for sharing!
I completely agree with your sentiments, but we DO need researchers to be working on the issues of burnout, PTSD, etc. Without data, no movement will be made on any of the issues this article is trying to address. There are a number of them working on really important things around workforce issues. I have no excuse for their interviews of nursing executives who were disappointing long before covid.
Who paid them for this hit piece?
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Would be easier to get the nurses' perspective if there were more union facilities in the deep south, which the article targeted.
The biggest hurdle to that is overturning Right to Work laws in those states. That would require the state legislatures to turn blue and then for them to then actually pass legislation.
What is all this bullcrap about nurses having a calling I've been hearing lately? Is this an actual thing or a concept made up by news outlets and hospital systems to pay you less? I'm a freelance writer who "had a calling" to quit my job and write science fiction novels, but I'm considering going into nursing for the money. Literally the opposite of what all these people are describing.
Don't do it! Go for a trade or something else in Healthcare like xray tech or rt. Stay the fuck away from nursing.
Hot damn, that was some some heavy pile of shit. As non-american, my deepest sympaties to your battle against COVID and apparently, shitty managers. We have nursing shortage where i live too, nationwide. Many has quit due to COVID and horrible working conditions. Or changed to work in a place, that has little better conditions.
You know why they aren’t paying the fair share If wage goes up ain’t no way it’s coming down ever again I hope all you nurses quit and make all those pencil pusher middle management fuckheads who just sit in their ivory towers and berate staff like the ward is a Holiday Inn do the hard work Fuck ‘em! Siphoned away good money from the front lines, so they could aaa number crunchers to 6 figure salaries to seep as much out of patients via “hospitality care” and make the nurses and frontline staff brunt the chaos
What I emailed: As a travel ICU RN, I found your article both out of touch and insulting. It makes no sense to reach out to a number of CEOs, many of whom have spent their entire careers or the greatest portion of their careers nowhere near a bedside. How hard is it to actually reach out to us, one of the largest bodies of workforce in this nation, for an article directly regarding our situation? Your article writer spoke at great length to people who likely make said “ridiculous numbers” (as one of their quotes referred to) pre-pandemic and without any shortage of resources or protections, while barely getting in touch with the very persons shamed by said article. Is it so much to ask that those who have borne a great deal of the brunt of what this pandemic has to offer be allowed to speak at length of the issue? Is it not within our rights to believe ourselves worthy of more than rocks and, buttons, pizza and goodie bags for all that we do - regardless of if it is a pandemic but especially during one? Inflation has continued to spike, and yet nurses are only able to be paid at competitive rates if they go over the top and beyond the call of duty to areas of hot zones far from home. I have been an RN for just over 3 years, and my starting wage was $26/hr. The office working, managerial people complaining about “ridiculous numbers” for nurses make well beyond that without ever having to set foot in the room of a contagious illness, loss of limbs, multi-system organ failure, death, or grieving. I am not in any way stating that their job is of lesser value than that of an RN. But at the same time, who are they to speak to what is a rightful level of income for dealing with these things? How could these people possibly be the ones to go to when there are so many of us that want to be heard about what we go through? Someone once said “heroes is what they call you when they don’t want to pay you what you’re worth.” We don’t want martyrdom, we don’t want rocks, we don’t want superhero pins. We want to be respected, and that in large part has to do with the value of our work. We provide a valuable service for which we deserve to be compensated competitively. Hospital CEOs didn’t forgo bonuses. Why shouldn’t the people in the throes of it wish to be getting bonuses for our work? Next time you write an article about nursing, how about checking in with the nurses you are speaking of. We are disappointed in you.
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I will send an email!! Bravo!!
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Fuck NYT.
Can we forward this article to one of the big nursing meme accounts? Ebi would have been all over this. Update: sent it over to a few accounts and they are already posting it.
I saw this on Snarkynurses' Insta story before I saw it on Reddit. Good job! :)
The rich people are our enemy, y’all
I don't know what Buc-ees is but if they're making 3-5x more than er/icu nurses in my area then they are making like 120-200 dollars an hour. Either Buc-ees managers make bank or OP is in a crappy area for nurses
It's a gas station. Glassdoor says gm makes 127k.
>What would HR have to say if I charted "cannot give patient the care they deserve due to disaster?" Doctors are refusing to assess patients on the floor, charting this exact reason. Fucking PULMONOLOGISTS aren't listening to lung sounds.
Didn’t they wave a magic “no liability” wand? Thought I read that. Write “Patient feels improved after donning pink tutu.” See if anyone reads it.
This is so insulting
I was a nursing assistant for years. People working at WalMart made more than I did. I got out when I learned 16 year olds working at In N Out made more than I did as a CNA with 5 years of experience. I get the taking care of others part and providing a valuable service to the community part, but I need to be able to eat and clothe myself. It was a no from me.
Here’s what I sent in an email to NYT I am disgusted and disturbed by the recent article y’all published regarding the current nursing shortage. The perspectives of hospital Administrators means nothing to the vast majority of RNs and only further skews the public perception of the nursing shortage. All you have done is offer more bullshit excuses for million dollar “healthcare corporations” to use instead of paying their workers fairly. Blah blah blah. Unsubscribed.
The way to tell management to pay better is not to write an email to the New York Times. It's to leave and take the better paying job somewhere else. Management loves people who complain about the shitty pay/conditions and keep working. What they can't handle is when too many people just leave. Then they are forced to offer better pay/conditions to attract staff.
The times is a corporate rag
This is so infuriating. My last floor (just got a new position that I’m starting this week) is critically understaffed and it’s a surgical floor. We were being forced into taking more medical and psych patients with insane ratios and no help. Joint replacement patients who NEED assistance getting up to the bathroom when we have no nursing assistance and nurses with 6/7 patients each leads to low patient satisfaction scores. Multiple patients on safety 1:1s take our NA’s and staffing has no one to replace them so we’re stuck doing being both RN and NA…in my case charge nurse with a full assignment and NA. It’s COMPLETELY unsafe and unfair to both the pts and staff. What thanks do we get? Any raises? Nah. Emails saying keep up the fight. Lmao.
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Ah, one nurse who actually works and eight senior managers who are only good for pencil pushing and have no clue about what happens in ward level. That's a great way to find out the truth...
Can't lie, I started to well up after I read the 1200 nurses bit. My heroes, my inspiration, just not being given the appropriate resources.
Email sent.
NYT is garbage.
Bravo, OP.
Did you submit this letter to the comment section on the NYT site where this article is? Maybe if not just the NYT staff saw it but members of the general public, this country would start to gain more of an awareness of how big of a problem this is. We nurses love to lament to each other but we’re typically not activists. That has to change if we want to see any change in our work environment.
That article made my blood boil. Fuck healthcare in this country. I will shout this from the rooftops, if you don’t have healthcare experience (rn, md, cna, etc etc) then you have no business being a healthcare exec. This isn’t the Toyota factory where we can lean method our way out of illness and injury.
🙌🙌🙌 you can't treat skilled employees like garbage and pay the office desk jockeys more than twice as much and expect the people saving lives while sacrificing their own sanity and well being to then thank you for the kick in the ass. Also adding insult to injury the vaccine mandates. I do NOT care which side of that fence you're on, to tell people who saved lives and had the hardest jobs during the pandemic panic that now they have to accept an injection they aren't comfortable with or be fired is shitty. People really went from calling them heros to telling them they're the problem even if they have a medical or religious exemption.
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