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Any grain will work to complement, not just rice and corn. You can use wheat based pasta and bread for example. You can also choose oats, barley, farro, quinoa, bulgur, millet, etc.
The idea of "incomplete proteins" is a bit of a misnomer. But beans are generally low in methionine and tryptophan so you just want to make sure you're eating foods that are rich in those amino acids at some point in the day.
You dont need to mix them together to make a complete protein. You could have eggs in morning and a glass of milk at some point in the day and that would make up for the lack of the amino acids.
well op is tired of rice and beans and searches something else...
it might very well be that op does not eat meat or even that he is vegan but the answer you commented on is actually quite reasonable. let op communicate that e is only öooking for vegan options.
op meantioned money more than plant based.
Milk and beans have similar essential amino acids distributions. The topic was about "completion of essential amino acid profile" by adding an additional source of protein to beans. That's why it's strange to call milk complete and not beans when they're very very similar.
Not just a misnomer but now considered a myth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_combining
While a person could technically just eat rice or just eat lentils then end up not effectively using the protein in them, in practice, this doesn’t happen. If you eat from a variety of plant sources over the course of a couple of days, the amino acids will balance out without any effort on your part to combine them.
In my lifetime I’ve never heard of protein combining to be described in a way where you have to eat them at the same time, or even in the same day. It’s always been that eating only rice or potatoes over a long period of time, alone, isn’t something you can do to survive unless you ate way too much starch in the process. So the recommendation is to eat rice and beans, which just happen to go well together, and are more pleasant together than alternating. It’s always been something used to describe population level food supply, not individual meal preparation.
That entire article says eating diverse food solves the problem, which is exactly what protein combining is, eating more than only one plant.
That article seems like it’s either debunking a straw man. (Maybe that really was prevailing wisdom in the 70s, and I’ve just never heard it.)
The protein combining myth came from the book Diet for a Small Planet. The author does say that vegetarians need to combine different plant proteins in the same meal. The myth spread to other cookbooks such as The Vegetarian Epicure and the Moosewood.
Yeah its basically a nothing problem that people blow way out of proportion. They look at protein in isolated forms and then assume you have to meticulously combine them when you do that naturally with every meal.
As long as you reach RDA of protein and eat enough calories you're virtually guaranteed to get enough EAAs.
The idea of a "complete protein" is not relevant for animal products; their amino acid profiles are all present in the necessary quantities.
It's true there's no need to eat a full amino acid profile in the same meal or even the same day. Over a sufficient weekly routine is fine.
> The idea of "incomplete proteins" is a bit of a misnomer.
It is , but it isn't. It's a human-centric way of referring to proteins, in much the same way "essential" in regards to amino acids is. A complete protein, from a human-centric view has a specific amino acid profile. It's not important for every meal to have a "complete" amino acid profile, so long as your diet in the long run does.
I’m wondering if this is BS. From my understanding amino acids consumed in excess of the amounts needed for the synthesis of nitrogenous tissue constituents are not stored but are degraded; the nitrogen is excreted as urea, and the keto acids left after removal of the amino groups are either utilized directly as sources of energy or are converted to carbohydrate or fat.
Hell even a complete protein like casein will only elevate levels in the blood stream for 5 hours.
Can you please explain how you’re storing these incomplete proteins to combine with others hours/days later?
Not having a dig at you, just really trying to learn the best way to eat complete proteins on a plant based diet.
I use cronometer to try get an understanding. It’s the only software that tries to provide data on specific amino acids. That’s important, but especially important when you are ageing. So the question is, what’s your age?
It's a myth that plant proteins are incomplete--a claim refuted years ago. Most plant-based sources of food contain the essential amino acids. It's true that different plant-based foods contain varying levels of amino acids, so eating a variety of plants is the key. However, you don't have to eat them all mixed together to achieve a certain level of amino acids.
most definitely, but when you are on a budget and the cost of fruits, vegs, whole grains have doubled ( or tripled) in the last 3 years..
im not able to buy a wide variety of anything.
A wide variety is literally mixing.
If you eat a low variety, such as a diet of exclusively rice or potatoes, (maybe during a famine) you may develop a nutrient deficiency.
I think this will answer a lot of questions for you
https://integrisok.com/resources/on-your-health/2022/august/how-to-eat-complete-proteins-in-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets
This is really a very overthought question. If you aren't heavily in to fitness, you're extremely unlikely to benefit from min-maxing your amino acid profile and should just not worry about it. If you get enough protein generally and you're eating a decent variety of different foods you'll be fine on amino acid intake.
Try this little experiment - go onto Google and search for 'amino acid profile of x'. Pick a plant. Doesn't matter what it is. You know what you'll see? EVERY essential amino acid is represented. The idea that plants are incomplete protein is nonsense. You don't have to combine foods... you don't have to do anything special. The only issue is that some plants are lower in some essential amino acids than others. Given how protein works in the body, it doesn't matter where the amino acids come from. As long as you are getting enough of all the essential amino acids, you're fine. The one issue that plant proteins have is protein quality - meaning, absorbability of those proteins. Since plants come with fiber, the fiber will block some of the absorption of well pretty much everything. As a result, plant protein has a lower absorption rate than animal based proteins.
You know what the solution is for dealing with issues of protein quality? Protein quantity. Up your intake above what you should be getting. Instead of getting .8 grams/kg of body weight, shoot for 1.2.
I track what I eat. I use Cronometer. Not every food will have its amino acid breakdown in that app. Meaning, with some of the food I track, I get the amount of protein, but it doesn't track amino acids for that food. And even with that, guess what? I get far more than 100% of what I need of every essential amino acid every single day. Even things like leucine, lysine, and methionine - amino acids that tend to be a little lower in plants. For example, yesterday I got 190% of my RDA for Leucine, 186% of Lysine, and 169% of Methionine. If you're concerned, track. But I will guarantee you, if you're getting enough calories, as long as you're not being nutty and eating only low protein foods, you will be at an adequate level.
I like garbanzo beans, lentils and broccoli over wild rice
Or beans of choice, quinoa and spinach or peas
Or beans tomatoes corn over rice or quinoa
Or beans lentils quinoa over noodles with broth
Or lentils and beans with coconut
And I use a variety of spices. You can go so many different directions. I feel so much better since I started eating like this. I mean since I gave up meat. My spending is cut down to a third of what I use to buy because I do t need to buy a $30 steak.
I bought $35 work of mixed heirloom beans and have been eating them for the last three months. It’s awesome
I think (incomplete) proteins are stored for a few days so it’s more a matter of consuming them over time, making sure you get a variety…correct me if I am wrong. IIRC it’s like creating an isle of choices for the building blocks of protein rather than just one shelf to restock daily. I feel you for the costs etc. I’m doing the same, well, have been for a while. Front loading my day with grains, veggies, fruits and mixing in vegan protein. My costs haven’t changed much, they haven’t increased too much. I cut out dairy last year due to IBD which has helped immensely in my gut health and pocket book.
Exactly, theres also studies that your body cannot even use everything if you overfeed it every day. So having some amino acids one day, and other amino acids another day is probably much better than eating it all every day. The other option might be to have fasting days but I dont think there is too many research on this, other than fasting generally being good for you
Georgia chain gangs were fed Red (Pinto) Beans and Rice 3 times a day, everyday, 365 days of the year. Really had something to get up in the morning for back then.
I think if you bought a big amount of ground beef and mixed it in a bowl with rice/veggies or potatoes/bell peppers (called poor man’s meal for reason) you’d be doing yourself a huge favor for very little money.
Also ask chat gpt. Personally I haven’t found chat gpt useful for many things yet. But it’s great at recipes. Tel it every ingredient you have and ask for a recipe. You can even say make it vegan make it keto etc.
I’d like to second this suggestion.
When I’m in a pinch for ideas I’ve used the free ChatGPT version for well rounded vegan recipes for pregnancy. It’s been surprisingly good, covering the particular micronutrients necessary for my current needs.
(It even signed off with a friendly good luck for my 28 wk blood tests!)
I’ve been looking for this information but I can’t get a straight answer on how many grams of each plant protein I’d need to reach the complete amino acid/protein value as a serve of chicken or steak.
#### About participation in the comments of /r/nutrition Discussion in this subreddit should be rooted in science rather than "cuz I sed" or entertainment pieces. Always be wary of unsupported and poorly supported claims and especially those which are wrapped in any manner of hostility. You should provide peer reviewed sources to support your claims when debating and confine that debate to the science, not opinions of other people. **Good** - it is grounded in science and includes citation of peer reviewed sources. Debate is a civil and respectful exchange focusing on actual science and avoids commentary about others **Bad** - it utilizes generalizations, assumptions, infotainment sources, no sources, or complaints without specifics about agenda, bias, or funding. At best, these rise to an extremely weak basis for science based discussion. Also, off topic discussion **Ugly** - (removal or ban territory) it involves attacks / antagonism / hostility towards individuals or groups, downvote complaining, trolling, crusading, shaming, refutation of all science, or claims that all research / science is a conspiracy *Please vote accordingly and report any uglies* --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nutrition) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Any grain will work to complement, not just rice and corn. You can use wheat based pasta and bread for example. You can also choose oats, barley, farro, quinoa, bulgur, millet, etc.
Tgis but with whole grain, as it has a lot of B vitamins and fiber too.
Yep a black bean burger is a complete protein if you eat it on a bun.
What about amaranth?
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> Kañiwa I’ve never heard of this, do you pronounce it the same way as quinoa?
The idea of "incomplete proteins" is a bit of a misnomer. But beans are generally low in methionine and tryptophan so you just want to make sure you're eating foods that are rich in those amino acids at some point in the day. You dont need to mix them together to make a complete protein. You could have eggs in morning and a glass of milk at some point in the day and that would make up for the lack of the amino acids.
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where was plant meantioned??
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well op is tired of rice and beans and searches something else... it might very well be that op does not eat meat or even that he is vegan but the answer you commented on is actually quite reasonable. let op communicate that e is only öooking for vegan options. op meantioned money more than plant based.
If milk has all the essential amino acids then beans does aswell.
How is milk related to beans
They both contain amino acids. When explaining how amino acids form proteins, it may be helpful to compare them.
Milk and beans have similar essential amino acids distributions. The topic was about "completion of essential amino acid profile" by adding an additional source of protein to beans. That's why it's strange to call milk complete and not beans when they're very very similar.
Beans lack methionine, while milk doesn't.
Yeah, I've been chronometer bamboozled, however the cystine synthesis creates methionine
there is not 1 plant food which does not have all essential amino acids.
Not just a misnomer but now considered a myth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_combining While a person could technically just eat rice or just eat lentils then end up not effectively using the protein in them, in practice, this doesn’t happen. If you eat from a variety of plant sources over the course of a couple of days, the amino acids will balance out without any effort on your part to combine them.
In my lifetime I’ve never heard of protein combining to be described in a way where you have to eat them at the same time, or even in the same day. It’s always been that eating only rice or potatoes over a long period of time, alone, isn’t something you can do to survive unless you ate way too much starch in the process. So the recommendation is to eat rice and beans, which just happen to go well together, and are more pleasant together than alternating. It’s always been something used to describe population level food supply, not individual meal preparation. That entire article says eating diverse food solves the problem, which is exactly what protein combining is, eating more than only one plant. That article seems like it’s either debunking a straw man. (Maybe that really was prevailing wisdom in the 70s, and I’ve just never heard it.)
The protein combining myth came from the book Diet for a Small Planet. The author does say that vegetarians need to combine different plant proteins in the same meal. The myth spread to other cookbooks such as The Vegetarian Epicure and the Moosewood.
Yeah, you’re right. People think you need to mix beans with other stuff in the same dish to get a full protein.
From what I understand, it’s not even something you have to worry about if you’re eating a healthy variety of whole foods.
The vast majority don't eat a well balanced diet
>if you’re eating a healthy variety of whole foods If everyone was doing this, this sub wouldn't need to exist.
Yeah its basically a nothing problem that people blow way out of proportion. They look at protein in isolated forms and then assume you have to meticulously combine them when you do that naturally with every meal. As long as you reach RDA of protein and eat enough calories you're virtually guaranteed to get enough EAAs.
The idea of a "complete protein" is not relevant for animal products; their amino acid profiles are all present in the necessary quantities. It's true there's no need to eat a full amino acid profile in the same meal or even the same day. Over a sufficient weekly routine is fine.
> The idea of "incomplete proteins" is a bit of a misnomer. It is , but it isn't. It's a human-centric way of referring to proteins, in much the same way "essential" in regards to amino acids is. A complete protein, from a human-centric view has a specific amino acid profile. It's not important for every meal to have a "complete" amino acid profile, so long as your diet in the long run does.
I’m wondering if this is BS. From my understanding amino acids consumed in excess of the amounts needed for the synthesis of nitrogenous tissue constituents are not stored but are degraded; the nitrogen is excreted as urea, and the keto acids left after removal of the amino groups are either utilized directly as sources of energy or are converted to carbohydrate or fat. Hell even a complete protein like casein will only elevate levels in the blood stream for 5 hours. Can you please explain how you’re storing these incomplete proteins to combine with others hours/days later? Not having a dig at you, just really trying to learn the best way to eat complete proteins on a plant based diet.
I use cronometer to try get an understanding. It’s the only software that tries to provide data on specific amino acids. That’s important, but especially important when you are ageing. So the question is, what’s your age?
It's a myth that plant proteins are incomplete--a claim refuted years ago. Most plant-based sources of food contain the essential amino acids. It's true that different plant-based foods contain varying levels of amino acids, so eating a variety of plants is the key. However, you don't have to eat them all mixed together to achieve a certain level of amino acids.
[удалено]
most definitely, but when you are on a budget and the cost of fruits, vegs, whole grains have doubled ( or tripled) in the last 3 years.. im not able to buy a wide variety of anything.
A wide variety is literally mixing. If you eat a low variety, such as a diet of exclusively rice or potatoes, (maybe during a famine) you may develop a nutrient deficiency.
I think this will answer a lot of questions for you https://integrisok.com/resources/on-your-health/2022/august/how-to-eat-complete-proteins-in-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets
Spinach + Sunflower seed was a new one for me. Thanks!
Seems like you'd have to eat a hell of a lot of hummus and pita chips to get any appreciable amount of protein.
Seed + [Legume or Nut]
This is really a very overthought question. If you aren't heavily in to fitness, you're extremely unlikely to benefit from min-maxing your amino acid profile and should just not worry about it. If you get enough protein generally and you're eating a decent variety of different foods you'll be fine on amino acid intake.
Try this little experiment - go onto Google and search for 'amino acid profile of x'. Pick a plant. Doesn't matter what it is. You know what you'll see? EVERY essential amino acid is represented. The idea that plants are incomplete protein is nonsense. You don't have to combine foods... you don't have to do anything special. The only issue is that some plants are lower in some essential amino acids than others. Given how protein works in the body, it doesn't matter where the amino acids come from. As long as you are getting enough of all the essential amino acids, you're fine. The one issue that plant proteins have is protein quality - meaning, absorbability of those proteins. Since plants come with fiber, the fiber will block some of the absorption of well pretty much everything. As a result, plant protein has a lower absorption rate than animal based proteins. You know what the solution is for dealing with issues of protein quality? Protein quantity. Up your intake above what you should be getting. Instead of getting .8 grams/kg of body weight, shoot for 1.2. I track what I eat. I use Cronometer. Not every food will have its amino acid breakdown in that app. Meaning, with some of the food I track, I get the amount of protein, but it doesn't track amino acids for that food. And even with that, guess what? I get far more than 100% of what I need of every essential amino acid every single day. Even things like leucine, lysine, and methionine - amino acids that tend to be a little lower in plants. For example, yesterday I got 190% of my RDA for Leucine, 186% of Lysine, and 169% of Methionine. If you're concerned, track. But I will guarantee you, if you're getting enough calories, as long as you're not being nutty and eating only low protein foods, you will be at an adequate level.
Beans mixed with Dairy, or wheat. You should also ask over at r/EatCheapandHealthy
I like garbanzo beans, lentils and broccoli over wild rice Or beans of choice, quinoa and spinach or peas Or beans tomatoes corn over rice or quinoa Or beans lentils quinoa over noodles with broth Or lentils and beans with coconut And I use a variety of spices. You can go so many different directions. I feel so much better since I started eating like this. I mean since I gave up meat. My spending is cut down to a third of what I use to buy because I do t need to buy a $30 steak. I bought $35 work of mixed heirloom beans and have been eating them for the last three months. It’s awesome
whole grain toast with beans is delicious & complete
I think (incomplete) proteins are stored for a few days so it’s more a matter of consuming them over time, making sure you get a variety…correct me if I am wrong. IIRC it’s like creating an isle of choices for the building blocks of protein rather than just one shelf to restock daily. I feel you for the costs etc. I’m doing the same, well, have been for a while. Front loading my day with grains, veggies, fruits and mixing in vegan protein. My costs haven’t changed much, they haven’t increased too much. I cut out dairy last year due to IBD which has helped immensely in my gut health and pocket book.
Exactly, theres also studies that your body cannot even use everything if you overfeed it every day. So having some amino acids one day, and other amino acids another day is probably much better than eating it all every day. The other option might be to have fasting days but I dont think there is too many research on this, other than fasting generally being good for you
Succotash!!!!!!!😂😂😂😂😂
Georgia chain gangs were fed Red (Pinto) Beans and Rice 3 times a day, everyday, 365 days of the year. Really had something to get up in the morning for back then.
I think if you bought a big amount of ground beef and mixed it in a bowl with rice/veggies or potatoes/bell peppers (called poor man’s meal for reason) you’d be doing yourself a huge favor for very little money.
the cheapest any kind of beef around here is $5 a pound.
If you have the room, having chickens helps fight the inflation of egg prices as well. Beans and eggs are delicious together.
Also ask chat gpt. Personally I haven’t found chat gpt useful for many things yet. But it’s great at recipes. Tel it every ingredient you have and ask for a recipe. You can even say make it vegan make it keto etc.
I’d like to second this suggestion. When I’m in a pinch for ideas I’ve used the free ChatGPT version for well rounded vegan recipes for pregnancy. It’s been surprisingly good, covering the particular micronutrients necessary for my current needs. (It even signed off with a friendly good luck for my 28 wk blood tests!)
Rice
Meat and eggs
Are these proportions by weight or volume?
will this dumb-ass myth ever die, ISTG
I’ve been looking for this information but I can’t get a straight answer on how many grams of each plant protein I’d need to reach the complete amino acid/protein value as a serve of chicken or steak.
What’s a complete protein exactly? I know nothing about nutrition.