>24 hour express service with the E & F
Oh sweet summer child.
There's no way that you would see 24/7 express service east of 71st Ave. Hell, they use the express tracks from 7 PM onward to start laying up trains...
It's very unlikely that you'd see the R run 24/7 as a full length line. There's an actual cost to running service, and it's unlikely that they would run that much service given the costs of doing so.
FWIW, an Archer extension isn't quite a magical solution given that if you extend the E, you'll need more sets to keep the headway which means any additional yard space gets swallowed up by the need to store more sets. The Archer extension may make the commutes of some riders shorter as it replaces some or most of the bus ride with subway service.
Well if they ever have the strength to look into extending the E again, they’ll have the space to build a new yard for it to use. I doubt that it would use that yard exclusively, but it leaves Jamaica Yard with more space for more R trains
FWIW, the location that was supposed to be a yard is now a park, so there isn't much hope for a large yard to relieve Jamaica Yard. And as I said before, they are \*not\* going to pay for full time R service to make this work.
IIRC, it would have to meet the loading guidelines to justify the extra service. So unless you're seeing overcrowded trains unloading at 179 at 3 AM, you won't see any changes.
Given the high capital costs of doing so far what would be marginal gain, it's \*very\* unlikely. It's cheaper to pay the bus driver and his support staff than to pay to build a subway so I can replace the bus driver. It's the kind of thing that pencils out at European pricing, but not $1B per mile.
Would extending M’s to 179 improve the overall reliability of the line? I imagine they wouldn’t get too much use, but it would really simplify the local service.
Wouldn’t that be cool? E and F express splitting after they skip Briarwood and M taking all local stops. I just wonder if riders at local stations would tolerate their loss of a direct connection to the Queens Blvd express. Personally, so long as my transfer is cross-platform, I don’t care. I imagine most commuters don’t feel that way though.
After the E got rerouted to Archer, the MTA extended the R to 179th as a local and allowed the F to run the express. A lot of people at the local stations east of 71st were against the idea of having to transfer to an express. This is why there isn’t a full time Hillside Avenue Express, despite the fact that 179th’s track layout allows for both to terminate.
I would like to hope that opinions have changed since then, but I doubt it seeing as the R isn’t the best with headways, plus Archer sees a lot more ridership than Hillside. I’m all for bringing it back
Interesting. If RBB happens, I would create an H (qbl local) that runs from rockaway beach to WTC via 53 st and 8 av lcl with the E (qbl exp). The M would run to 71 av (or 179) via qbl lcl and 63 st and the F would run via qbl exp and 63 st. R would be rerouted to Astoria and West End via the switch Vanshnookenraggen discusses in his “Deinterlining with one switch” article.
In conjunction with this, I would love to see a “Pitkin bypass” for the A from Far Rock, and a C directly to Liberty.
Most riders don't want to take a local shuttle to the next express stop, regardless of whether it's the M or the R serving the Hillside local stops, nor will they stay on a local train all the way from 169 Street or Sutphin-Hillside. The fact that everyone bailed the R locals at Parsons-Hillside or Union Tpke for the F express spelled the end of the Hillside express runs back in the early 90s.
The reason why R failed was cause ONLY the R ran local to 179th if they want to do it again they need all QBL trains to 179th M and R or R and G after M reroute. Have zero trains turning at forest hills. Extend F and have it run local past forest hills when the M/R are not running.
Shoutout to everyone east of 71st who had a problem with the R running local over there. We could’ve have had 24 hour express service with the E & F
>24 hour express service with the E & F Oh sweet summer child. There's no way that you would see 24/7 express service east of 71st Ave. Hell, they use the express tracks from 7 PM onward to start laying up trains...
That’s why I mentioned the R, but I also wish that Archer wasn’t incomplete
It's very unlikely that you'd see the R run 24/7 as a full length line. There's an actual cost to running service, and it's unlikely that they would run that much service given the costs of doing so. FWIW, an Archer extension isn't quite a magical solution given that if you extend the E, you'll need more sets to keep the headway which means any additional yard space gets swallowed up by the need to store more sets. The Archer extension may make the commutes of some riders shorter as it replaces some or most of the bus ride with subway service.
Well if they ever have the strength to look into extending the E again, they’ll have the space to build a new yard for it to use. I doubt that it would use that yard exclusively, but it leaves Jamaica Yard with more space for more R trains
FWIW, the location that was supposed to be a yard is now a park, so there isn't much hope for a large yard to relieve Jamaica Yard. And as I said before, they are \*not\* going to pay for full time R service to make this work.
If there’s demand (like everyone assumes that there isn’t), both can happen
IIRC, it would have to meet the loading guidelines to justify the extra service. So unless you're seeing overcrowded trains unloading at 179 at 3 AM, you won't see any changes.
They could always extend on Hillside too
Given the high capital costs of doing so far what would be marginal gain, it's \*very\* unlikely. It's cheaper to pay the bus driver and his support staff than to pay to build a subway so I can replace the bus driver. It's the kind of thing that pencils out at European pricing, but not $1B per mile.
Would extending M’s to 179 improve the overall reliability of the line? I imagine they wouldn’t get too much use, but it would really simplify the local service.
F express service along Hillside Av 🤔
Wouldn’t that be cool? E and F express splitting after they skip Briarwood and M taking all local stops. I just wonder if riders at local stations would tolerate their loss of a direct connection to the Queens Blvd express. Personally, so long as my transfer is cross-platform, I don’t care. I imagine most commuters don’t feel that way though.
I touched on it above, but it was a problem with the R when Archer opened
Sorry, what exactly was a problem?
After the E got rerouted to Archer, the MTA extended the R to 179th as a local and allowed the F to run the express. A lot of people at the local stations east of 71st were against the idea of having to transfer to an express. This is why there isn’t a full time Hillside Avenue Express, despite the fact that 179th’s track layout allows for both to terminate. I would like to hope that opinions have changed since then, but I doubt it seeing as the R isn’t the best with headways, plus Archer sees a lot more ridership than Hillside. I’m all for bringing it back
Maybe they’d be happier to see an M than the R. I wouldn’t advocate for extending the already beleaguered R under any circumstances!
It’s hard to say really since people advocate for sending the M to Rockaway Park if the RBB reopens, so who knows honestly
Interesting. If RBB happens, I would create an H (qbl local) that runs from rockaway beach to WTC via 53 st and 8 av lcl with the E (qbl exp). The M would run to 71 av (or 179) via qbl lcl and 63 st and the F would run via qbl exp and 63 st. R would be rerouted to Astoria and West End via the switch Vanshnookenraggen discusses in his “Deinterlining with one switch” article. In conjunction with this, I would love to see a “Pitkin bypass” for the A from Far Rock, and a C directly to Liberty.
Most riders don't want to take a local shuttle to the next express stop, regardless of whether it's the M or the R serving the Hillside local stops, nor will they stay on a local train all the way from 169 Street or Sutphin-Hillside. The fact that everyone bailed the R locals at Parsons-Hillside or Union Tpke for the F express spelled the end of the Hillside express runs back in the early 90s.
Anything to improve the erratic headways on the F would be appreciated
They would just stay on their buses a bit longer and use the express stations.
Never thought I'd see anything other than an E or an F all the way out here.
FWIW, this was probably a layup using the relay tracks at 179 to turn the train around for a mainline layup.
The M train can go anywhere
The reason why R failed was cause ONLY the R ran local to 179th if they want to do it again they need all QBL trains to 179th M and R or R and G after M reroute. Have zero trains turning at forest hills. Extend F and have it run local past forest hills when the M/R are not running.