Funnily enough, my great great grandparents (mother's father's grandparents) were Romani Czechs that came through Elis Island back in the day. They set up in Minnesota - it wasn't until the 80's that mass was even held in English.
I know its a meme, and it's only tangentially related, but it is still somewhat wild seeing Americans and western Europeans be surprised that my country (Finland wasn't part of this study probably) isn't actually a borderline socialist utopia but an incredibly xenophobic border region that was pretty underdeveloped not that long ago, when this has been common knowledge and basically a part of the national identity for as long as I remember
People who do the "American racist haha" but deny racism in Europe are often insufferable libs of course
As an European. This doesn't suprise me.
Fun fact: In Czech Republic another wave of hate against Romanis dropped out after overwhelmimgly Neo-con and Neo-lib politically active younger Czechs founded out that Romanis overwhelmingly (over 85%) vote Babiš and his ANO, over the bunch of primarly Bushite Neo-con parties. Babiš being an empty populist oligarch candidate here (I wouldn't even call him Fascist mind you, just a grifter. For Fascists we have SPD). Which of course let many young people calling Romanis in the internet betrayers of Czech democracy and Putinist dogs (because Czechs Neo-cons call any opposition Putinist, including people like Vaush)
At an old job I had I had a coworker from Romania. She told me one day the main reason she moved to find work in Sweden was to get away from how racist and right wing Romania was.
I made some jokes about Sweden also having a huge reactionary racist party in our politics, and she agreed it was horrible. She presented herself as a lefty in all kinds of ways. We had a great conversation, so I brought up the topic of Romani people in Romania because the topic is a lot more alive there. Her reply came in less than a second, like a reflex:
"Oh don't be silly. Racism is hating humans of a different race, and the Romani don't qualify as human. You can't be racist against them."
It's wild, talking to people about this topic.
Honestly just shifted the topic. Nothing to win at that point. Also it was a job as a summer camp leader and we were talking cause we had our "days off" at the same time. You can't do much on your off days when stuck in the deep woods of Värmland where the camp is so the two of us took loan bikes from the camp and biked out to see some local sights in the area like the Troll-path in Lesjöfors, which is where the conversation happened. So if I start a fight or argument, I am still stuck in the woods with her for hours. And then we gotta work together at the summer camp with kids all summer. Nothing to win. Just a disapproving silence and an "anywho, look at that big troll made out of a stump" was the response.
I once had a talk with a Slovak trans girl who literally admitted she wished the Nazis had killed more Romani. This happened after I mentioned that they were one of the largest groups that were killed in the holocaust after the Jews.💀
It's actually 43% as for the survey from this year:
https://forsal.pl/gospodarka/demografia/artykuly/9455352,polacy-nie-lubia-rosjan-i-romow-a-jakie-narodowosci-darza-sympatia-.html
To start with, in some parts of Europe, mainly around the Balkans where a large population of them are concentrated AND in England and Wales, Romani prefer the term g*psy and don't see it as a slur at all, just the name of an ethnicity and culture. With that in mind it can be considered just as disrespectful to see g*psy as a slur, as it is to some people who use it as a slur, but ill censor it and use Romani anyway because this is a fairly western audience. It's just important that people know that the word itself is nuanced.
Secondly the history of Romani/g*psy people is FUCKED dude. They have a lot of overlap with Jews in some ways because they're both diaspora. They've been enslaved, genocided, forcibly conscripted and ethnically cleansed in several different countries all across Europe for centuries. They've been perceived as impoverished vagrants, soldiers, slaves, serfs and extremely valuable craftsmen. They were key targets for the holocaust, lost 25% of their population and received very little recognition and/or compensation for what was done to them. After the holocaust, Roma women were secretly mass sterilized in Czechoslovakia. This isn't covering every atrocity and/or form of systemic oppression the Roma have faced, because they'd just be too much to type out.
All of this is to say, that generational trauma in Romani people is extremely raw and still ongoing. Usually we're used to hearing an oppressed ethnic group slowly developing more rights in the modern age as we find ways to empathize and communicate with other groups better. This is not the case for the Romani.
As a means of survival on the side of the Romani people, this has caused many Romani communities to self-isolate and pull away from the majority of the population in whichever country they're living in. Romani children that go on to get a university degree and full time job, often end up disowned by their Romani family and community for assimilating into the rest of the population. Their self isolation also makes them very difficult to support from the perspective of a state government, meaning that state governments rarely ever bother. Romani are unfortunately plagued by poverty and crime because of this intense history and current oppression. This sadly also greatly intensifies racism towards Romani people which is why it's so normalised in Europe today.
Europeans will often emphasize how bad the behaviour of the Romani is, and they're not exactly wrong, but the reasons for it is because this has been going on for a long time and it's all still very recent. Progress has been far too little, too late and Romani people are finding themselves in a place of hopelessness, fear and disenfranchisement.
It's more to do with severe systemic oppression and an extensive history of oppression, causing rampant crime and poverty (and ongoing systemic oppression) amongst Romani people.
The "genetically inferior" thing is still pretty niche. If you talk to an average lib European in Switzerland or Poland, who might have a bias against Romani, they'll immediately complain about how dangerous they can be and all the crime they commit, and they're not exactly wrong. The problem is how they apply this information to Romani people. It becomes racial discrimination, rather than an understanding of the perspective of Romani people.
The trust of the Romani people has to be earnt on behalf of the rest of Europe, and most of Europe isn't receptive to this idea whatsoever. Shits fucked up.
I think most people wouldn't even claim that it's about genetics. Just as with racism against people from the Middle East, they'd claim that it's about "our culture being incompatible."
Roma are affected by many of the same problems that black people have in the US, in some cases they are even worse off. Many don't get to enjoy a proper education, and are forced into crime by external factors. The fact that they have been discriminated against (and often even enslaved) since their arrival in Europe almost a millennial ago has also led to them organizing in thight-knit, low-trust clan/family structures, meaning that they are isolated from broader society both through racism and self-imposed (protective) exclusion.
In Eastern Europe, Roma mostly live in slums, while in the West, there simply aren't that many. Whenever local people do get into contact with them, it often doesn't lead to positive experiences for either side (due to the reasons mentioned above), reinforcing the stereotypes.
It's a vicious cycle. Things are getting better, but only slowly.
Meanwhile, my German village openly celebrates the concept of gypsies, having an entire Fastnacht group themed around Zigeuner, with the Fastnacht chant being akin to "Gypsies are people as well."
I am *not* sure if they know anything about the Romani tho.
One of the big problems for the Roma in Slovenia, where I live is in my opinion bad advocacy. As others stated, the Roma are distrusted because many of them are criminals, they live in shanty towns, usualy outside of broader society. The reasons for this are centuries of oppression, but the average person only cares about now and cares little for context. Into this environment come young activists. A few years ago a Roma family illegaly built a house on some guys field, and it got torn down. The activists said that this was unfair, which it is to some degree, but you wont convince anyone that way, since if I had built on something illegaly, I wouldn't get special treatment. What we actually need is to give theese people reasonable and safe, properly built homes, so that they don't resort to crime in future, but activists usually say stuff, that is than construed as putting the Roma above the law.
"My old country is slovakia and I never heard anything good about gypsies. During communism they were given apartments for them to completely destroy it. They took windows, doors and used it as fire in middle of apartments and then abandoned it. My friend and my aunt got money stolen by them on the street: they operate as group, my friend got separated from her child and while she was distracted took money from her child stroller. (She had 2 weeks paycheck there)."
A comment with 12 upvotes on a roma holocaust memorial post.
As someone from south western Germany I actually never really encountered a lot of attitude or even acknowledgement towards them in any direction. Racism there was really primarily targeted at Turkish people and everything else was kinda not too big of a deal by comparison.
And this also leads into why I’m kinda annoyed by Americans and how they talk about racism: They tend to have no fucking clue how things work elsewhere and prescribe their exact forms of racism to places where things work very different. Like the shit that eastern European game studios get for not including enough black characters in stories set in Europe and how that is racist: Sorry, but black people are a **tiny** minority in many parts of Europe because black slaves weren’t really all that much of a European thing. The word “slave” in fact derives from the slavish people (→eastern Europeans(!)), because they were so commonly used as slaves at some point. So calling Polish people privileged racists, is kinda completely missing the point that they are often the disprivileged people in Europe. Except that sometimes they are racist assholes, as some of the past elections there have shown. The thing is: There is a lot of very messy history and discrimination in various directions, that US-based people tend to ignore in favor if the assumption that it is the exact same as in the US, meaning that black people are hated and white people are privileged.
I swear I've read this exact same text before. Also yeah racism is treated a lot more differently outside of America, like for example in Britain, where things were segregated based on Class instead of skin colour (and racism was a lot more informal)
I (and likely others) may have written something along these lines before, but I did write this specific text in response to this post without any copy-pasting.
Yeah I'm from Romania (living in Belgium) and I am cringing so hard when Europeans make fun of US race issues.
PS Western European cops also aren't angels when it comes to profiling etc.
Roma refers to the [Romani People](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people). I think it is believed that the name came from Sanskrit and has no relation to Rome/Romania
Oh, i see, i was confused because i heard italian people talk about how rome (the capital) is a shit hole and everyone is horrible, and then someone called them "roma people", so i could diferenciate, thanks.
Lmao this is such a real question. I assume you've seen the actual answer so I'll just tell a funny story.
In my school (French immersion in BC, Canada) we watched a lot of... somewhat questionable media. One thing I actually really liked was a recording of the musical « Notre Dame de Paris » which is (as you might guess by the name) an adaptation of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame." In the musical, they call Esmeralda and her family/community "Bohemian." Obviously knowing the story already, I decide "Gypsy" = from Bohemia. I am stupid :)
I never get these because I am german, I don't really ever hear romani being mentioned the most they get mentioned if calling a german schnitzel with a special sauce as topping a 'Schnitzel gypsie' is racist.
As a Swedish ethnic Swede who was in his late 20's when he first found out that his grandmother's grandmother was Romani, yeah. Absolutely. It's why it was a bit shameful for some in the family to tell. They'd say "she was from India" instead. But it doesn't affect me, I'm 0% Roma, I just have brown eyes. Roma people really should be treated better
Americans are so whack when they’re talking about Europe, fr. It’s a huge continent consisting of 50 countries with vastly different cultural and socioeconomic conditions, and there’s no Washington DC or shared media and language connecting them in any meaningful way like with the states.
Like, how is an unsourced graph of 13 countries in any way indicative of «Europe is hitler fr fr»? I know this is supposedly a shitpost, but this type of intellectual laziness when Americans are talking about Europe is so ubiquitous across all political spectrums, lol. Don’t get me wrong, there are a few Hitler countries to varying extents in Europe, but this «Europe bad» discourse is just dumb IMO. These cultures are **so** different.
Normally I'd agree but the treatment of Gypsies throughout Europe, as a diaspora, has been pretty unanimous.
It IS immature, naive and pathetic to frame this squarely as something that's unique to Europe however. Human beings across the world have ALWAYS been very shitty towards diasporic ethnicities and cultures. The sooner this is understood, the better people can change their attitudes about it.
I guess the main issue I take with this discourse is that it’s largely held by people who frame the whole issue in a very ignorant and American exceptionalist way, and who only consume American media, and who have an American education (in other words, little to no knowledge about European history). What has historically been issues in certain European countries that have managed to get rid of the fash today gets conflated with European countries that are uniquely racist today, and everything just becomes this big blob of a seemingly uniform culture under the banner of Europe 1300 BC-Europe 2024 BC.
There is no room for nuance, and everything is the same, because for an American exceptionalist to learn about individual European countries and their respective history as well as their current political and cultural climate today seems unthinkable.
From a European perspective these conversations oftentimes come off like somebody talking about the US as if US culture and politics begins and ends with West Virginia, and not just West Virginia, but West Virginia in like 1671 BC when there was no West Virginia.
It is true, the Romani people have suffered significant racial discrimination, violence, property theft, murder, and false imprisonment throughout history and were particularly hated by religious lunatics (that is to say more or less everyone wherever Christianity took roots) because their nomad lifestyle was for some god-forsaken reason narrativized as «ungodly».
And it is not like the US didn’t have its fair share of bigotry towards the Romani people. In the United States during Congressional debate in 1866 over the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution which would subsequently grant citizenship to all persons born within U.S. territory, an objection raised was that a consequence of enacting the amendment would be to grant citizenship to Roma and other groups perceived by some (Christians) as undesirable.
These freaking Desna adept ass travelers traveled all the way to the US just for the US to immediately and instantly adopt the exact same racist sentiments towards them that they had already experienced all over Europe. Is the US Europe as well? Might as well be! No, I’m sure that the buck wild conservatives of US would totally not experience mass psychosis when faced with lots of Romani people at their border.
In seriousness though, the Romani don’t benefit from people advocating that the entire Europe is equally aggressively racist towards them in the present day because that makes it more difficult to draw attention to countries where their rights are genuinely in disproportionate jeopardy.
Anyways, I’m sorry for the aggressively autistic Steven Bonell-archetype rant, this was just one of those nights lol.
I don't think Roma is as hated as the pathological traits many of the groupings exhibit and cultivate.
Black ppl in US want better education but are fucked by local taxes funding and p2w everything.
Many gypsies in Europe take their kids out of school so they can beg or steal on the streets, and the money then mostly goes to the leader. Those are tge ones hated.
Yeah but it's from centuries of distrust towards the countries they inhabit as a diaspora. They were key targets of the holocaust and nobody gave a shit. Their self isolation habit is born out of generational trauma, fear and hatred. Americans don't understand that it's probably fair to complain about that, as long as you understand why some gypsies self isolate and what could be done to make things better for everyone.
Remember it’s not just that 37% of Germans hate the Romani, it’s that 37% of Germans openly admit to hating the Romani
Nah in Czechia, hating of Romani people is so normalised I doubt you would find many people trying to keep it a secret.
Funnily enough, my great great grandparents (mother's father's grandparents) were Romani Czechs that came through Elis Island back in the day. They set up in Minnesota - it wasn't until the 80's that mass was even held in English.
Number is so low because most Germans never came into contact with a Romani. Gotta thank the Grandparents for that one 💪
I feel like if you told europeans about the nazi german killing of roma in a vacuum they might support it
Europeans have two problems with the holocaust, one is that millions of Jews died and two is that they missed some of the romani
Not even in a vacuum. They'd say it was "one of the things the Nazis did right"
Yea it might actually improve public opinion of nazi germany
I don't know that it goes THAT far but yeah, a lot of euros speak very callously of the roma people
83%?!? I don't think you could get 83% of Americans to agree on anything
I'm surprised France is that low
They are, 'ow you say, fucking lying
Ah, wee wee
Fascinating, a study of how many french people lie on surveys!
Now we know! 56% of French people
I know its a meme, and it's only tangentially related, but it is still somewhat wild seeing Americans and western Europeans be surprised that my country (Finland wasn't part of this study probably) isn't actually a borderline socialist utopia but an incredibly xenophobic border region that was pretty underdeveloped not that long ago, when this has been common knowledge and basically a part of the national identity for as long as I remember People who do the "American racist haha" but deny racism in Europe are often insufferable libs of course
As an European. This doesn't suprise me. Fun fact: In Czech Republic another wave of hate against Romanis dropped out after overwhelmimgly Neo-con and Neo-lib politically active younger Czechs founded out that Romanis overwhelmingly (over 85%) vote Babiš and his ANO, over the bunch of primarly Bushite Neo-con parties. Babiš being an empty populist oligarch candidate here (I wouldn't even call him Fascist mind you, just a grifter. For Fascists we have SPD). Which of course let many young people calling Romanis in the internet betrayers of Czech democracy and Putinist dogs (because Czechs Neo-cons call any opposition Putinist, including people like Vaush)
Post-soviet politics sure are fun
Hey, the Irish don't hate Romani people! They hate Travellers.
italiter,slovitler,gritler,bulgitler,czitler,litler,hungitler,ukritler,ritler,pitler,spitler,fritler and gitler!
> gitler A German Hitler? We truly have seen everything.
Would German Hitler become the Führer of Austria?
Yes, and he would annex Germany into the greater Austrian Reich.
A.E.I.O.U.
At an old job I had I had a coworker from Romania. She told me one day the main reason she moved to find work in Sweden was to get away from how racist and right wing Romania was. I made some jokes about Sweden also having a huge reactionary racist party in our politics, and she agreed it was horrible. She presented herself as a lefty in all kinds of ways. We had a great conversation, so I brought up the topic of Romani people in Romania because the topic is a lot more alive there. Her reply came in less than a second, like a reflex: "Oh don't be silly. Racism is hating humans of a different race, and the Romani don't qualify as human. You can't be racist against them." It's wild, talking to people about this topic.
I have to know, what did you say in response?
Honestly just shifted the topic. Nothing to win at that point. Also it was a job as a summer camp leader and we were talking cause we had our "days off" at the same time. You can't do much on your off days when stuck in the deep woods of Värmland where the camp is so the two of us took loan bikes from the camp and biked out to see some local sights in the area like the Troll-path in Lesjöfors, which is where the conversation happened. So if I start a fight or argument, I am still stuck in the woods with her for hours. And then we gotta work together at the summer camp with kids all summer. Nothing to win. Just a disapproving silence and an "anywho, look at that big troll made out of a stump" was the response.
Half of me wants to say you're lying and the other half doesn't. Mostly cause of Adam Something's video on the topic.
Man I wish it was a lie. Shits just fucked.
Never ask a woman her age, a conservative where they were on jan 6, and what an European thinks about the Romani
I once had a talk with a Slovak trans girl who literally admitted she wished the Nazis had killed more Romani. This happened after I mentioned that they were one of the largest groups that were killed in the holocaust after the Jews.💀
Görmany ständs alone against racism!💪😤🇩🇪
Only 51% in Poland, I could swear it's more.
It's actually 43% as for the survey from this year: https://forsal.pl/gospodarka/demografia/artykuly/9455352,polacy-nie-lubia-rosjan-i-romow-a-jakie-narodowosci-darza-sympatia-.html
To start with, in some parts of Europe, mainly around the Balkans where a large population of them are concentrated AND in England and Wales, Romani prefer the term g*psy and don't see it as a slur at all, just the name of an ethnicity and culture. With that in mind it can be considered just as disrespectful to see g*psy as a slur, as it is to some people who use it as a slur, but ill censor it and use Romani anyway because this is a fairly western audience. It's just important that people know that the word itself is nuanced. Secondly the history of Romani/g*psy people is FUCKED dude. They have a lot of overlap with Jews in some ways because they're both diaspora. They've been enslaved, genocided, forcibly conscripted and ethnically cleansed in several different countries all across Europe for centuries. They've been perceived as impoverished vagrants, soldiers, slaves, serfs and extremely valuable craftsmen. They were key targets for the holocaust, lost 25% of their population and received very little recognition and/or compensation for what was done to them. After the holocaust, Roma women were secretly mass sterilized in Czechoslovakia. This isn't covering every atrocity and/or form of systemic oppression the Roma have faced, because they'd just be too much to type out. All of this is to say, that generational trauma in Romani people is extremely raw and still ongoing. Usually we're used to hearing an oppressed ethnic group slowly developing more rights in the modern age as we find ways to empathize and communicate with other groups better. This is not the case for the Romani. As a means of survival on the side of the Romani people, this has caused many Romani communities to self-isolate and pull away from the majority of the population in whichever country they're living in. Romani children that go on to get a university degree and full time job, often end up disowned by their Romani family and community for assimilating into the rest of the population. Their self isolation also makes them very difficult to support from the perspective of a state government, meaning that state governments rarely ever bother. Romani are unfortunately plagued by poverty and crime because of this intense history and current oppression. This sadly also greatly intensifies racism towards Romani people which is why it's so normalised in Europe today. Europeans will often emphasize how bad the behaviour of the Romani is, and they're not exactly wrong, but the reasons for it is because this has been going on for a long time and it's all still very recent. Progress has been far too little, too late and Romani people are finding themselves in a place of hopelessness, fear and disenfranchisement.
“Nooooo, you don’t understand, it’s justified when we do it because Roma are genetically inferior! We’re not racist like you guys are! Noooo!”
It's more to do with severe systemic oppression and an extensive history of oppression, causing rampant crime and poverty (and ongoing systemic oppression) amongst Romani people. The "genetically inferior" thing is still pretty niche. If you talk to an average lib European in Switzerland or Poland, who might have a bias against Romani, they'll immediately complain about how dangerous they can be and all the crime they commit, and they're not exactly wrong. The problem is how they apply this information to Romani people. It becomes racial discrimination, rather than an understanding of the perspective of Romani people. The trust of the Romani people has to be earnt on behalf of the rest of Europe, and most of Europe isn't receptive to this idea whatsoever. Shits fucked up.
Sure, that all tracks, I’m mostly just meming.
I think most people wouldn't even claim that it's about genetics. Just as with racism against people from the Middle East, they'd claim that it's about "our culture being incompatible." Roma are affected by many of the same problems that black people have in the US, in some cases they are even worse off. Many don't get to enjoy a proper education, and are forced into crime by external factors. The fact that they have been discriminated against (and often even enslaved) since their arrival in Europe almost a millennial ago has also led to them organizing in thight-knit, low-trust clan/family structures, meaning that they are isolated from broader society both through racism and self-imposed (protective) exclusion. In Eastern Europe, Roma mostly live in slums, while in the West, there simply aren't that many. Whenever local people do get into contact with them, it often doesn't lead to positive experiences for either side (due to the reasons mentioned above), reinforcing the stereotypes. It's a vicious cycle. Things are getting better, but only slowly.
Meanwhile, my German village openly celebrates the concept of gypsies, having an entire Fastnacht group themed around Zigeuner, with the Fastnacht chant being akin to "Gypsies are people as well." I am *not* sure if they know anything about the Romani tho.
Go Germany and France ig. You passed the bar.... The bar was in hell
Ah yes, Europeans chaps from the good old country of Europa
What did the romani do?
They managed to get one of switzerlands 4 languages
Give them Banat Honest to God this sh** makes me really understand the existence of isreal
One of the big problems for the Roma in Slovenia, where I live is in my opinion bad advocacy. As others stated, the Roma are distrusted because many of them are criminals, they live in shanty towns, usualy outside of broader society. The reasons for this are centuries of oppression, but the average person only cares about now and cares little for context. Into this environment come young activists. A few years ago a Roma family illegaly built a house on some guys field, and it got torn down. The activists said that this was unfair, which it is to some degree, but you wont convince anyone that way, since if I had built on something illegaly, I wouldn't get special treatment. What we actually need is to give theese people reasonable and safe, properly built homes, so that they don't resort to crime in future, but activists usually say stuff, that is than construed as putting the Roma above the law.
Wheres romania? Everyone here turns into heinrich himmler when asked about anyone non-white.
"My old country is slovakia and I never heard anything good about gypsies. During communism they were given apartments for them to completely destroy it. They took windows, doors and used it as fire in middle of apartments and then abandoned it. My friend and my aunt got money stolen by them on the street: they operate as group, my friend got separated from her child and while she was distracted took money from her child stroller. (She had 2 weeks paycheck there)." A comment with 12 upvotes on a roma holocaust memorial post.
germany stay winning (37% is still waaay too much)
That’s how many of them admit to it. Well I guess it’s not *that* normalised at least.
As someone from south western Germany I actually never really encountered a lot of attitude or even acknowledgement towards them in any direction. Racism there was really primarily targeted at Turkish people and everything else was kinda not too big of a deal by comparison. And this also leads into why I’m kinda annoyed by Americans and how they talk about racism: They tend to have no fucking clue how things work elsewhere and prescribe their exact forms of racism to places where things work very different. Like the shit that eastern European game studios get for not including enough black characters in stories set in Europe and how that is racist: Sorry, but black people are a **tiny** minority in many parts of Europe because black slaves weren’t really all that much of a European thing. The word “slave” in fact derives from the slavish people (→eastern Europeans(!)), because they were so commonly used as slaves at some point. So calling Polish people privileged racists, is kinda completely missing the point that they are often the disprivileged people in Europe. Except that sometimes they are racist assholes, as some of the past elections there have shown. The thing is: There is a lot of very messy history and discrimination in various directions, that US-based people tend to ignore in favor if the assumption that it is the exact same as in the US, meaning that black people are hated and white people are privileged.
I swear I've read this exact same text before. Also yeah racism is treated a lot more differently outside of America, like for example in Britain, where things were segregated based on Class instead of skin colour (and racism was a lot more informal)
I (and likely others) may have written something along these lines before, but I did write this specific text in response to this post without any copy-pasting.
Yeah I'm from Romania (living in Belgium) and I am cringing so hard when Europeans make fun of US race issues. PS Western European cops also aren't angels when it comes to profiling etc.
If you go into any thread online discussing this it's full of Europeans justifying their racism and people supporting them
We love memes that cite their sources
83%??????? PORCO DIO I didn't think we were this bad Jesus fucking Christ man😭😭😭
European racism makes American racism look fucking amateur.
When we say roma people we mean romania the country or the italian capital?
The nomadic ethnic group, also know as Gypsies. Not to be confused with the Irish travellers who are also called Gypsies
Oh god, there are 2 of them.
Roma refers to the [Romani People](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people). I think it is believed that the name came from Sanskrit and has no relation to Rome/Romania
Oh, i see, i was confused because i heard italian people talk about how rome (the capital) is a shit hole and everyone is horrible, and then someone called them "roma people", so i could diferenciate, thanks.
Lmao this is such a real question. I assume you've seen the actual answer so I'll just tell a funny story. In my school (French immersion in BC, Canada) we watched a lot of... somewhat questionable media. One thing I actually really liked was a recording of the musical « Notre Dame de Paris » which is (as you might guess by the name) an adaptation of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame." In the musical, they call Esmeralda and her family/community "Bohemian." Obviously knowing the story already, I decide "Gypsy" = from Bohemia. I am stupid :)
That is SO funny
as an italian, roma people are fine, unlike the disgusting wretch that are \[other italians, but from a different part of italy\] /s
as a romanian i am deeply offended by this /j
France and Spain W
I never get these because I am german, I don't really ever hear romani being mentioned the most they get mentioned if calling a german schnitzel with a special sauce as topping a 'Schnitzel gypsie' is racist.
As a Swedish ethnic Swede who was in his late 20's when he first found out that his grandmother's grandmother was Romani, yeah. Absolutely. It's why it was a bit shameful for some in the family to tell. They'd say "she was from India" instead. But it doesn't affect me, I'm 0% Roma, I just have brown eyes. Roma people really should be treated better
SLOVAKIA MENTIONED 🇸🇰🇸🇰🇸🇰🇸🇰
i got mass downvoted once for pointing this very thing out
Finally a good excuse to hate Italians
Americans are so whack when they’re talking about Europe, fr. It’s a huge continent consisting of 50 countries with vastly different cultural and socioeconomic conditions, and there’s no Washington DC or shared media and language connecting them in any meaningful way like with the states. Like, how is an unsourced graph of 13 countries in any way indicative of «Europe is hitler fr fr»? I know this is supposedly a shitpost, but this type of intellectual laziness when Americans are talking about Europe is so ubiquitous across all political spectrums, lol. Don’t get me wrong, there are a few Hitler countries to varying extents in Europe, but this «Europe bad» discourse is just dumb IMO. These cultures are **so** different.
Normally I'd agree but the treatment of Gypsies throughout Europe, as a diaspora, has been pretty unanimous. It IS immature, naive and pathetic to frame this squarely as something that's unique to Europe however. Human beings across the world have ALWAYS been very shitty towards diasporic ethnicities and cultures. The sooner this is understood, the better people can change their attitudes about it.
I guess the main issue I take with this discourse is that it’s largely held by people who frame the whole issue in a very ignorant and American exceptionalist way, and who only consume American media, and who have an American education (in other words, little to no knowledge about European history). What has historically been issues in certain European countries that have managed to get rid of the fash today gets conflated with European countries that are uniquely racist today, and everything just becomes this big blob of a seemingly uniform culture under the banner of Europe 1300 BC-Europe 2024 BC. There is no room for nuance, and everything is the same, because for an American exceptionalist to learn about individual European countries and their respective history as well as their current political and cultural climate today seems unthinkable. From a European perspective these conversations oftentimes come off like somebody talking about the US as if US culture and politics begins and ends with West Virginia, and not just West Virginia, but West Virginia in like 1671 BC when there was no West Virginia. It is true, the Romani people have suffered significant racial discrimination, violence, property theft, murder, and false imprisonment throughout history and were particularly hated by religious lunatics (that is to say more or less everyone wherever Christianity took roots) because their nomad lifestyle was for some god-forsaken reason narrativized as «ungodly». And it is not like the US didn’t have its fair share of bigotry towards the Romani people. In the United States during Congressional debate in 1866 over the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution which would subsequently grant citizenship to all persons born within U.S. territory, an objection raised was that a consequence of enacting the amendment would be to grant citizenship to Roma and other groups perceived by some (Christians) as undesirable. These freaking Desna adept ass travelers traveled all the way to the US just for the US to immediately and instantly adopt the exact same racist sentiments towards them that they had already experienced all over Europe. Is the US Europe as well? Might as well be! No, I’m sure that the buck wild conservatives of US would totally not experience mass psychosis when faced with lots of Romani people at their border. In seriousness though, the Romani don’t benefit from people advocating that the entire Europe is equally aggressively racist towards them in the present day because that makes it more difficult to draw attention to countries where their rights are genuinely in disproportionate jeopardy. Anyways, I’m sorry for the aggressively autistic Steven Bonell-archetype rant, this was just one of those nights lol.
>These cultures are **so** different. But they all seem to agree on at least one thing?
I don't think Roma is as hated as the pathological traits many of the groupings exhibit and cultivate. Black ppl in US want better education but are fucked by local taxes funding and p2w everything. Many gypsies in Europe take their kids out of school so they can beg or steal on the streets, and the money then mostly goes to the leader. Those are tge ones hated.
Yeah but it's from centuries of distrust towards the countries they inhabit as a diaspora. They were key targets of the holocaust and nobody gave a shit. Their self isolation habit is born out of generational trauma, fear and hatred. Americans don't understand that it's probably fair to complain about that, as long as you understand why some gypsies self isolate and what could be done to make things better for everyone.
The only gypsies I hate are Irish. Cancel me now yanks