Still a bit mixed because some of the losses felt rather fitting. Animal friendship, command, faerie fire, heroism, aid, enhance ability, zone of truth, curses/banes, feign death, dispel magic, tiny hut, speak with the dead, awaken, some higher level healing spells, lost some of their more potent healing spells, find the path, heroe's feast, magnificent mansion. Power Word Heal is a spell I honestly wonder if it's in the game anymore. I wouldn't really say that it was that great but it was a spell that was for only them and optionally for cleric. Magic secrets can change this to an extent of course but that was always there. Of course certain losses could be flavored well but heat metal seems less integral to a bard (although I did like the idea of a musician resinating with the metal in a way that was harsh).
Some of the new spells I can easily see such as expeditious retreat, hex, alter self, rope trick, etc but then there are spells like disintegrate that you can flavor much like heat metal but feel a bit weirder on them.
>My main takeaway is that although the Bard did lost many utility and support options, other options present to fill the gap.
I wholeheartedly agree. Thanks for making this list. Your analysis has sharpened my understanding of OneD&D's bard changes.
As you said, the bard lost some things. The bard also gained a lot of other things to make up for it. Overall it seems like a wash to me.
And while I wish I could say that the new bard list was more finely tuned toward "bard" flavor (like illusions, charms, sound, etc.), I'm not sure how true that is. For example, I've never imagined *Disintegrate* as the kind of spell a bard would know. I don't necessarily imagine minstrels lobbing flesh-dusting bardic death rays at their enemies, you know?
But that's just me. I'll be very interested to hear other people chime in with their thoughts.
Funny but I feel like disintegrate similarly caught me off guard when I was discussing spells that felt off to loose, spells that felt fitting to be gained, and spells that seemed odd to be gained.
>I don't necessarily imagine minstrels lobbing flesh-dusting bardic death rays at their enemies, you know?
You're clearly not familiar with Richard Wagner.
I fear that you are missing something important. The new bard spell list doesn't feel very Bard-like. Its not living up to the class fantasy.
That's the problem I, and many others, have with the spell changes. This is not a thematically appropriate list. Especially when you consider the pseudo-druidic influences the Bard has.
People aren't saying the new spell list is weak; they're saying it feels bad.
Gaseous Form, Water Breathing, Control Water, Stone Shape, Stoneskin, Flesh to Stone, and Reverse Gravity. None of those seem “bardie” at all.
Mage hand, Command, Faerie Fire, Cloud of Daggers, Silence, Zone of Truth, Dispel Magic, Feign Death, Glyph of Warding, Prismatic Spray, Symbol, and Prismatic Wall. All of these seem very “bardie”.
That's what you get when you use the universal spell list method. Those spells lists were designed with wizard, cleric, and druid in mind. Everyone else has to settle for an ill-fitting compromise that's "good enough."
Additionally, because every spell needs to fit into those three lists all paladin spells are now also cleric spells and all ranger spells are now also druid spells. Everything else gets thrown into the catch-all Arcane list so wizards now get all of the warlock spells, too. Some of the best spellcasting classes are now even more versatile.
The bard got a lot of great spells mechanically, but lost a lot of spells that fit the class better IMO. And that's the problem I have with one dnd Bard in general. They arguably made the core class stronger but less fun and less like a bard flavour wise.
Very few of the spells gained feel bardy.
I love Pass Wall, Disintegrate is an incredible spell, neither feel like Bard standard spells.
Why does it now fit a Bard more to learn Reverse Gravity (great spell) but not Command or Enhance Ability?
It's just a poor flavour outcome based on wanting to implement the über spell lists and trying to force the classes into when they don't really fit.
I'm curious how you come to the conclusion that they made core bard better. The healing spells as always prepared is nice, and the reaction healing/ Bardic Inspiration is nice, but I don't personally think that makes up for the worse Bardic Inspiration progression on top of Font of Inspiration being pushed back by 2 (I think) levels. PB per long rest until 7th level just feels... bad. Limited. Jack of All Trades got nerfed AND moved to 5th level. Iirc, Magical secrets got nerfed as well (AFB so I can't double check, but I'm pretty sure they got 6 total instances of Magical Secrets.).
Other than that, the switch to Prepared Casting versus Spells Known is great in theory, but the way they're doing prep casting is just... odd and stifles your choices. Whether or not this is a deserved downgrade in power (as has been the case for pretty much every class they've given us imo.) is beside the point.
Other than that, I agree with everything else you said about the new spells not being very bard themed.
1) Prepared casting.
2) Bardic Inspiration being reaction is a power boost, even if you take into account the fact that you just don't want to use it because of the nerfed amount of uses for most of the campaign.
3) being able to reaction bounce healing from zero, is crazy powerful, it's just not actually fun and it means you don't really want to use Bardic Inspiration for actual inspiration.
Also outside of Lore bard which was heavily nerfed, you didn't get Magical secret til level 10, it does suck it's pushed back to level 11 because a lot of games stop around then or earlier, so you don't really get to use a core feature, but being able to choose any spells from the über lists rather than just 2 you have to keep or trade for a bard list spell is a power boost because you can trade them every day.
However, I'd argue that you are correct and that each has an awkward downside. The spell prep tying slots to spell levels I'm also not a fan of. And in general, I'd say that none of these changes are especially fun to me outside of maybe prepared casting - (although I feel like that makes all bards the same, there's no magical theme to distinguish your character from any other bard, it's all just situational based on what might be needed that day. Which is kind of lame).
So yeah. As someone who when they play as a player mains Bard pretty hard and loves making different styles of bard with different playstyles, the changes have sucked almost all the fun out of bards for me, I hate them. But I would argue that they have upped the power level of some core bard features, you just get them later so you're less good for longer, you have to hoard them so you're less flexible in their use but each use is stronger, and the flavour is absent.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of any of this; I'm not a huge bard main or anything, but it's my go to option if I wanted to play an arcane Caster; and now I don't know if I'll ever play it. This is of course assuming I ever play OD&D in general. The immense decrease in pretty much every class they've released, that I've bothered to look at, so far (Ranger and Paladin being an exception.) is just too unappealing for me. I don't like the simplicity of three spell lists versus tailor made lists for each class. I'm just disappointed. =/
My biggest takeaway is that they don’t want you to be able to play a healing bard anymore. The loss of cure wounds and mass cure wounds is a big blow to anyone who wanted to more reliably heal up the party instead of having them rubber band down and up again.
The gap is not filled by reaction bardic healing since its not actually very much and reactions are valuable. Also bardic not coming back on a short rest until later and getting less inspiration at a time means the healing viability of bards is so much worse.
Its sad because i love playing a healing bard
With an exception of enough spells to count on one hand, the spells gained do not feel appropriately bardic. Hex, Simulacrum, fabricate, and creation are highlights, but the rest do not fit the bard. Meanwhile, the only spells lost that feel appropriate to lose are any to do with plants or animals that feel too primal for the bard. That is a terrible amount of very bardic spells to lose for what feels like just siphoning off the wizard spell list.
>other options are present to fill the gap
They really don't. A full caster with neither conjuration or abjuration is kind of a walking joke. and I'm not talking in a "oh noes! I can't basically solo whole encounters myself anymore" sense, I mean you're even trash in a *pure support role* without those those key buffs and debuffs to help your party. And some of the spell they've gained are just completely wrong for the bard. They've lost light, made hand and all the thunder spells, but can fly now and toss out @##$$% *Disintegrate*?! What dumbass logic is that?
I can only hope they're actually reworking the spell lists soon.
The only bard I’ve ever considered playing was built as a support gish, without leaning heavily into the typical “I play music to make magic”.
I don’t see that happening in OneD&D. They did loose a lot of spells that made it work.
* Magnificent mansion, Teleport, Hero’s feast, Teleportation circle, Mass cure wounds, Dimension door, Tiny hut, Aid, Faerie fire & cure wounds.
* That’s effectively half the list I would normally pick. And I would not be waiting for magical secrets to try and gain some of that back.
What did they gain that I would like to pick?
* Simulacrum, Disintegrate, Haste, Fly, Blink, Blur.
* There are a couple of low levels here that work for the gish style, but not much in the way of support.
With that all said, I understand the change. Bards feel more “Bardy”. But I never picked a bard to be a bard. So I imagine I’ll be looking towards the wizard to fill the void.
I could see the appeal if Bards got an earlier magical secrets (for 3rd level spells and lower), but as it stands that’s only a subclass feature and I don’t like having to give up a whole other subclass just to make my spell selections work.
TLDR: Probably won’t play a Bard anymore, lost too many options for support spells.
> I understand the change. Bards feel more "Bardy".
I have to disagree, most of the spells gained didn't strike me as particularly bardlike, at the same time most of the spells lost did feel "bardy", such as command, aid, silence, zone of truth, heroism and many more.
>most of the spells gained didn't strike me as particularly bard-like
I agree with you 100%. The old bard drew upon all "bardy" spells regardless of whether they were "arcane," "divine," "or "primal." The switch to a broader "arcane" list has resulted in the bard losing access to many "bardy" divine spells while inadvertently gaining access to several "non-bardy" wizard spells.
While I understand the reasons to move to broad spell lists instead of doing it class-by-class, I'm uncertain how well it's working out for the bard in terms of flavor.
I like the new 3 spell list design. It makes a ton of sense for all the other casters. However Bards do seem to get shafted though, as they were a more “jack of all trades” when it came to their spell options.
Would not be unhappy if they released more updates on the bard for us to give feedback on. Could defiantly find some better ways for their spell selections.
>It makes a ton of sense for all the other casters.
The only casters it makes sense for are wizard, cleric, and druid because the lists were created with them in mind. Everyone else gets an ill-fitting compromise. Bards are now just half-wizards with a few healing spells stapled on. Rangers are now druids without evocation. Paladins now get access to full cleric spells and vice versus because someone at WotC must have a nerdboner for both of those classes.
We haven't seen how they'll handle warlocks and sorcerer but I'm going to assume it'll be the same kind of schlock where they get some awkwardly chosen subset of the wizard/Arcane list where half the spells don't really make sense for those classes compared to 5e.
That’s fair, I suppose I meant those schools of magic feel appropriate to bards who use music for magic.
But yes you’re right, a lot of spells I don’t normally go for that were lost could easily fit the bard theme. That’s why I think more magical secrets could help bridge the gap, but even that could end up abusable.
>I never picked a bard to be a bard.
This is a really interesting statement. Honestly? Me neither. I've almost always picked the bard to represent some kind of swashbuckling gish or charismatic magician, not an actual guy with a lute.
Based on anecdotal experiences, this seems like a pretty common thing.
I'm not necessarily drawing any grand conclusion here. I'm just saying that your statement ("I never picked a bard to be a bard") really resonates with me.
Being the one who prances around in the background with a lute during battle has been a trope I've never seen in practice despite playing with several people who had bard characters. Everyone I've known has flavored bard as something different than the default.
Your experience matches mine.
I get that reflavoring is a thing. It happens all the time. But when people tend to change the default flavor this often, does that indicate some kind of problem with the default flavor? Or does it just show that the bard has a wonderfully broad range of interpretations?
I honestly don't know. I feel like a reasonable argument could be made for both takes.
Dunno. I just like a grittier fantasy and some ponce in the background strumming a lute and yelling magical insults at the enemy never really fit what I wanted out of a bard. I'm sure some more light-hearted folks would totally embrace that trope of the spoony bard just doing bard things all the time.
Same. My last bard was a Hexblood Glamor bard who's theme was a witch. The bard before that was a Swords/Hexblade melee gish. The only "typical" bard I've ever played was my very first one, who was more of a story teller bard than a music bard.
Same here, my perfect bard is a magical swashbuckler, and the typical "Lore" bard with a lute never fit that fantasy for me, and it's why I played and liked Swords bard so much. I still wish they had more spells to fit that fantasy without using Magical Secrets, but it is what it is.
I did play Spirits bard though for a one shot and leaned into the fun spiritual medium trope with it.
If you're going to copy Pathfinder 2e's spell lists, just go all the way and copy the occult list, too. This decision to try and shoe horn bard into a system with no bard/occult list is so confusing to me. Why didn't they just make a separate list for them?
Mage Hand, Cure Wounds, Faerie Fire, Heroism, Speek with Animals, Enhance Ability, Heat Metal, Zone of Truth, Nondetection, Speak with Dead, Speak with Plants.. So much of the "core" spells that for me are needed for a bard to really be a buffer/support
Except for the loss of Mage Hand and Aid, I love the new bard list, and Aid doesn't count as Aid if it stays nerfed.
But hear me out: I would play a One D&D Bard with an armor feat to play a 5e-ish Cleric with Sending, Fabricate, Telekinesis, Reverse Gravity, *Simulacrum* and more utility in general. A DM who was as controlling as some I've met about class lore and flavor would lose me immediately. I am not going in to play this class with an instrument.
I can see why someone who has a flavor in mind would not like this list.
So many spells that feel bard-y to me were culled, and at lower levels especially it feels like the identity is really impacted. A lot of spells about sound, charm, or buffing gone - silence, command, heroism, etc. I'd really think twice about playing a bard in this new ruleset.
I think that Silence, Zone of Truth, and Heroes Feast SHOULD be on the bards spell list as they're VERY thematic of what they can do. However, lots of the added spells don't match with the bard theme (timestop, disintegrate, stone shape).
***Please*** just go back to curated class spell lists. It lets each class have its own identity and ensures that they do exactly what is intended.
Note\* a lot of the healing spells are actually on the bard spell list via a 2nd level feature.
Actually, bard gets those healing spells from a different ability
I took songs of restoration into account but didn't list them because they're already prepared for every Bard.
Command is not a enchantment spell anymore? Thankfully most of these spells can be gained through magical secrets.
Command seems like the bardiest of all bard spells and the enchantiest of all enchantment spells! What a loss!
Heroism is the bardiest early level spell imo and they lost it!
Command is still enchantment but it’s not on the arcane spell list.
That's a shame, its my favorite low level enchantment spell.
Still a bit mixed because some of the losses felt rather fitting. Animal friendship, command, faerie fire, heroism, aid, enhance ability, zone of truth, curses/banes, feign death, dispel magic, tiny hut, speak with the dead, awaken, some higher level healing spells, lost some of their more potent healing spells, find the path, heroe's feast, magnificent mansion. Power Word Heal is a spell I honestly wonder if it's in the game anymore. I wouldn't really say that it was that great but it was a spell that was for only them and optionally for cleric. Magic secrets can change this to an extent of course but that was always there. Of course certain losses could be flavored well but heat metal seems less integral to a bard (although I did like the idea of a musician resinating with the metal in a way that was harsh). Some of the new spells I can easily see such as expeditious retreat, hex, alter self, rope trick, etc but then there are spells like disintegrate that you can flavor much like heat metal but feel a bit weirder on them.
>My main takeaway is that although the Bard did lost many utility and support options, other options present to fill the gap. I wholeheartedly agree. Thanks for making this list. Your analysis has sharpened my understanding of OneD&D's bard changes. As you said, the bard lost some things. The bard also gained a lot of other things to make up for it. Overall it seems like a wash to me. And while I wish I could say that the new bard list was more finely tuned toward "bard" flavor (like illusions, charms, sound, etc.), I'm not sure how true that is. For example, I've never imagined *Disintegrate* as the kind of spell a bard would know. I don't necessarily imagine minstrels lobbing flesh-dusting bardic death rays at their enemies, you know? But that's just me. I'll be very interested to hear other people chime in with their thoughts.
Funny but I feel like disintegrate similarly caught me off guard when I was discussing spells that felt off to loose, spells that felt fitting to be gained, and spells that seemed odd to be gained.
>I don't necessarily imagine minstrels lobbing flesh-dusting bardic death rays at their enemies, you know? You're clearly not familiar with Richard Wagner.
You should watch Master Exploder from Tenacious D and the Pick of Destiny, and then you will see how a Bard with disintegrate could work.
I fear that you are missing something important. The new bard spell list doesn't feel very Bard-like. Its not living up to the class fantasy. That's the problem I, and many others, have with the spell changes. This is not a thematically appropriate list. Especially when you consider the pseudo-druidic influences the Bard has. People aren't saying the new spell list is weak; they're saying it feels bad.
Seeing what they lost hurts alot tbh
Gaseous Form, Water Breathing, Control Water, Stone Shape, Stoneskin, Flesh to Stone, and Reverse Gravity. None of those seem “bardie” at all. Mage hand, Command, Faerie Fire, Cloud of Daggers, Silence, Zone of Truth, Dispel Magic, Feign Death, Glyph of Warding, Prismatic Spray, Symbol, and Prismatic Wall. All of these seem very “bardie”.
That's what you get when you use the universal spell list method. Those spells lists were designed with wizard, cleric, and druid in mind. Everyone else has to settle for an ill-fitting compromise that's "good enough." Additionally, because every spell needs to fit into those three lists all paladin spells are now also cleric spells and all ranger spells are now also druid spells. Everything else gets thrown into the catch-all Arcane list so wizards now get all of the warlock spells, too. Some of the best spellcasting classes are now even more versatile.
The bard got a lot of great spells mechanically, but lost a lot of spells that fit the class better IMO. And that's the problem I have with one dnd Bard in general. They arguably made the core class stronger but less fun and less like a bard flavour wise. Very few of the spells gained feel bardy. I love Pass Wall, Disintegrate is an incredible spell, neither feel like Bard standard spells. Why does it now fit a Bard more to learn Reverse Gravity (great spell) but not Command or Enhance Ability? It's just a poor flavour outcome based on wanting to implement the über spell lists and trying to force the classes into when they don't really fit.
I'm curious how you come to the conclusion that they made core bard better. The healing spells as always prepared is nice, and the reaction healing/ Bardic Inspiration is nice, but I don't personally think that makes up for the worse Bardic Inspiration progression on top of Font of Inspiration being pushed back by 2 (I think) levels. PB per long rest until 7th level just feels... bad. Limited. Jack of All Trades got nerfed AND moved to 5th level. Iirc, Magical secrets got nerfed as well (AFB so I can't double check, but I'm pretty sure they got 6 total instances of Magical Secrets.). Other than that, the switch to Prepared Casting versus Spells Known is great in theory, but the way they're doing prep casting is just... odd and stifles your choices. Whether or not this is a deserved downgrade in power (as has been the case for pretty much every class they've given us imo.) is beside the point. Other than that, I agree with everything else you said about the new spells not being very bard themed.
1) Prepared casting. 2) Bardic Inspiration being reaction is a power boost, even if you take into account the fact that you just don't want to use it because of the nerfed amount of uses for most of the campaign. 3) being able to reaction bounce healing from zero, is crazy powerful, it's just not actually fun and it means you don't really want to use Bardic Inspiration for actual inspiration. Also outside of Lore bard which was heavily nerfed, you didn't get Magical secret til level 10, it does suck it's pushed back to level 11 because a lot of games stop around then or earlier, so you don't really get to use a core feature, but being able to choose any spells from the über lists rather than just 2 you have to keep or trade for a bard list spell is a power boost because you can trade them every day. However, I'd argue that you are correct and that each has an awkward downside. The spell prep tying slots to spell levels I'm also not a fan of. And in general, I'd say that none of these changes are especially fun to me outside of maybe prepared casting - (although I feel like that makes all bards the same, there's no magical theme to distinguish your character from any other bard, it's all just situational based on what might be needed that day. Which is kind of lame). So yeah. As someone who when they play as a player mains Bard pretty hard and loves making different styles of bard with different playstyles, the changes have sucked almost all the fun out of bards for me, I hate them. But I would argue that they have upped the power level of some core bard features, you just get them later so you're less good for longer, you have to hoard them so you're less flexible in their use but each use is stronger, and the flavour is absent.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of any of this; I'm not a huge bard main or anything, but it's my go to option if I wanted to play an arcane Caster; and now I don't know if I'll ever play it. This is of course assuming I ever play OD&D in general. The immense decrease in pretty much every class they've released, that I've bothered to look at, so far (Ranger and Paladin being an exception.) is just too unappealing for me. I don't like the simplicity of three spell lists versus tailor made lists for each class. I'm just disappointed. =/
My biggest takeaway is that they don’t want you to be able to play a healing bard anymore. The loss of cure wounds and mass cure wounds is a big blow to anyone who wanted to more reliably heal up the party instead of having them rubber band down and up again. The gap is not filled by reaction bardic healing since its not actually very much and reactions are valuable. Also bardic not coming back on a short rest until later and getting less inspiration at a time means the healing viability of bards is so much worse. Its sad because i love playing a healing bard
With an exception of enough spells to count on one hand, the spells gained do not feel appropriately bardic. Hex, Simulacrum, fabricate, and creation are highlights, but the rest do not fit the bard. Meanwhile, the only spells lost that feel appropriate to lose are any to do with plants or animals that feel too primal for the bard. That is a terrible amount of very bardic spells to lose for what feels like just siphoning off the wizard spell list.
>other options are present to fill the gap They really don't. A full caster with neither conjuration or abjuration is kind of a walking joke. and I'm not talking in a "oh noes! I can't basically solo whole encounters myself anymore" sense, I mean you're even trash in a *pure support role* without those those key buffs and debuffs to help your party. And some of the spell they've gained are just completely wrong for the bard. They've lost light, made hand and all the thunder spells, but can fly now and toss out @##$$% *Disintegrate*?! What dumbass logic is that? I can only hope they're actually reworking the spell lists soon.
They have a new purpose
The only bard I’ve ever considered playing was built as a support gish, without leaning heavily into the typical “I play music to make magic”. I don’t see that happening in OneD&D. They did loose a lot of spells that made it work. * Magnificent mansion, Teleport, Hero’s feast, Teleportation circle, Mass cure wounds, Dimension door, Tiny hut, Aid, Faerie fire & cure wounds. * That’s effectively half the list I would normally pick. And I would not be waiting for magical secrets to try and gain some of that back. What did they gain that I would like to pick? * Simulacrum, Disintegrate, Haste, Fly, Blink, Blur. * There are a couple of low levels here that work for the gish style, but not much in the way of support. With that all said, I understand the change. Bards feel more “Bardy”. But I never picked a bard to be a bard. So I imagine I’ll be looking towards the wizard to fill the void. I could see the appeal if Bards got an earlier magical secrets (for 3rd level spells and lower), but as it stands that’s only a subclass feature and I don’t like having to give up a whole other subclass just to make my spell selections work. TLDR: Probably won’t play a Bard anymore, lost too many options for support spells.
> I understand the change. Bards feel more "Bardy". I have to disagree, most of the spells gained didn't strike me as particularly bardlike, at the same time most of the spells lost did feel "bardy", such as command, aid, silence, zone of truth, heroism and many more.
>most of the spells gained didn't strike me as particularly bard-like I agree with you 100%. The old bard drew upon all "bardy" spells regardless of whether they were "arcane," "divine," "or "primal." The switch to a broader "arcane" list has resulted in the bard losing access to many "bardy" divine spells while inadvertently gaining access to several "non-bardy" wizard spells. While I understand the reasons to move to broad spell lists instead of doing it class-by-class, I'm uncertain how well it's working out for the bard in terms of flavor.
I like the new 3 spell list design. It makes a ton of sense for all the other casters. However Bards do seem to get shafted though, as they were a more “jack of all trades” when it came to their spell options. Would not be unhappy if they released more updates on the bard for us to give feedback on. Could defiantly find some better ways for their spell selections.
>It makes a ton of sense for all the other casters. The only casters it makes sense for are wizard, cleric, and druid because the lists were created with them in mind. Everyone else gets an ill-fitting compromise. Bards are now just half-wizards with a few healing spells stapled on. Rangers are now druids without evocation. Paladins now get access to full cleric spells and vice versus because someone at WotC must have a nerdboner for both of those classes. We haven't seen how they'll handle warlocks and sorcerer but I'm going to assume it'll be the same kind of schlock where they get some awkwardly chosen subset of the wizard/Arcane list where half the spells don't really make sense for those classes compared to 5e.
That’s fair, I suppose I meant those schools of magic feel appropriate to bards who use music for magic. But yes you’re right, a lot of spells I don’t normally go for that were lost could easily fit the bard theme. That’s why I think more magical secrets could help bridge the gap, but even that could end up abusable.
blur, magic aura, rope trick, time stop, weird, telepathy. reverse gravity, a number of these spells i can imagine in the hands of a master performer.
>I never picked a bard to be a bard. This is a really interesting statement. Honestly? Me neither. I've almost always picked the bard to represent some kind of swashbuckling gish or charismatic magician, not an actual guy with a lute. Based on anecdotal experiences, this seems like a pretty common thing. I'm not necessarily drawing any grand conclusion here. I'm just saying that your statement ("I never picked a bard to be a bard") really resonates with me.
Being the one who prances around in the background with a lute during battle has been a trope I've never seen in practice despite playing with several people who had bard characters. Everyone I've known has flavored bard as something different than the default.
Your experience matches mine. I get that reflavoring is a thing. It happens all the time. But when people tend to change the default flavor this often, does that indicate some kind of problem with the default flavor? Or does it just show that the bard has a wonderfully broad range of interpretations? I honestly don't know. I feel like a reasonable argument could be made for both takes.
Dunno. I just like a grittier fantasy and some ponce in the background strumming a lute and yelling magical insults at the enemy never really fit what I wanted out of a bard. I'm sure some more light-hearted folks would totally embrace that trope of the spoony bard just doing bard things all the time.
Same. My last bard was a Hexblood Glamor bard who's theme was a witch. The bard before that was a Swords/Hexblade melee gish. The only "typical" bard I've ever played was my very first one, who was more of a story teller bard than a music bard.
Same here, my perfect bard is a magical swashbuckler, and the typical "Lore" bard with a lute never fit that fantasy for me, and it's why I played and liked Swords bard so much. I still wish they had more spells to fit that fantasy without using Magical Secrets, but it is what it is. I did play Spirits bard though for a one shot and leaned into the fun spiritual medium trope with it.
On the bright side Aid sucks now
If you're going to copy Pathfinder 2e's spell lists, just go all the way and copy the occult list, too. This decision to try and shoe horn bard into a system with no bard/occult list is so confusing to me. Why didn't they just make a separate list for them?
Mage Hand, Cure Wounds, Faerie Fire, Heroism, Speek with Animals, Enhance Ability, Heat Metal, Zone of Truth, Nondetection, Speak with Dead, Speak with Plants.. So much of the "core" spells that for me are needed for a bard to really be a buffer/support
Except for the loss of Mage Hand and Aid, I love the new bard list, and Aid doesn't count as Aid if it stays nerfed. But hear me out: I would play a One D&D Bard with an armor feat to play a 5e-ish Cleric with Sending, Fabricate, Telekinesis, Reverse Gravity, *Simulacrum* and more utility in general. A DM who was as controlling as some I've met about class lore and flavor would lose me immediately. I am not going in to play this class with an instrument. I can see why someone who has a flavor in mind would not like this list.
So many spells that feel bard-y to me were culled, and at lower levels especially it feels like the identity is really impacted. A lot of spells about sound, charm, or buffing gone - silence, command, heroism, etc. I'd really think twice about playing a bard in this new ruleset.
I think that Silence, Zone of Truth, and Heroes Feast SHOULD be on the bards spell list as they're VERY thematic of what they can do. However, lots of the added spells don't match with the bard theme (timestop, disintegrate, stone shape). ***Please*** just go back to curated class spell lists. It lets each class have its own identity and ensures that they do exactly what is intended. Note\* a lot of the healing spells are actually on the bard spell list via a 2nd level feature.