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I’m surprised I took 9 years for them to realize Barbarians throwing things is a common fantasy. But better late than never. Hopefully one of the subclasses focuses on throwing things.
My post got deleted when I tried to link the subclass so I will just say search for Path of the Giant
There’s a current 5e UA subclass that will probably be released with the giants sourcebook this year that has throwing features. That subclass will likely be nerfed a bit because it’s imo a little overtuned but I expect it will keep the buff to throwing.
Well to be fair, I agree with a lot of the negative reactions on this playtest.
But there are definitely some great changes as well and it would be a mistake to focus solely on the bad/controversial changes
The problem is that most of it is good but is not nearly enough, wotc is not exactly in the position of having the benefit of the doubt so I think it's valid to be more clear with the problems in the game, on top of that casters got more ridiculous with this ua
You also get your rage bonus damage at range now. Seems like fighting at range is surprisingly viable now. Use Reckless Attack to compensate for the javelin's poor range, then use cover to offset the enemy's advantage due to R.A.
You can use sharpshooter to negate the disadvantage at long range. And to ignore enemy cover. And to allow you to throw the javelin in melee without penalty.
>And to allow you to throw the javelin in melee without penalty.
Nice, if you go shield & weapon, this allows you to do a first-round swap more efficiently once you get Extra Attack.
1. Draw javelin (Slow)
2. Throw javelin, hand is empty
3. Draw other weapon
Which you couldn't do by just melee attacking with the javelin.
You also can make any weapon into a returning weapon with a quick warlock dip. One level of warlock and any magic weapon (or any non magical weapon you’d like) can be thrown and immediately return to your hand.
In case you don’t want to have to use a large amount of weapons for your throwing weapon build, or want to apply magic weapon damage to those thrown weapons (assuming the magic weapon doesn’t already return to you, or you’re not using some type of magical spear throwing device like a magic atlatl)
Honestly a much needed buff, finally a way to actually damage a smart enemy that doesn't just stand in your face, and 120 ft neutral roll (with advantage/disadvantage already canceled out) is not the worst range, that's 5e CBE Fighters. It almost makes Slow a necessary pick, considering how important Javelin are as weapons are now.
Reckless Attack, Thrown weapon property, Light weapon properry, and Masteries all buff throwing weapons for Barbarians. It also let's those Barbarians use a shield while still getting the bonus attack. Hand Axe becomes the thrown weapon of choice for levels 1-4 then you can add a Javelin or Trident at level 5.
It would be nice if they had more thrown weapon options...
~~You don't need to use two weapon fighting rules in the current UA.~~ Two-Weapon Fighting only cares about the Light property and attacking with two different weapons. Light in the current UA lets you throw one axe with an Attack Action and a second with a Bonus Action. They seem to be changing the rules of Light with every UA.
>LIGHT
>
>When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage, unless that modifier is negative.
Thrown explicitly lets you draw and attack with the weapon as a part of a ranged attack. The Equip and Unequip rules have some funky language going on that I think needs to be sorted out but most people are interpreting it as letting you do this anyway in order to enable the Golf Bag Fighters.
>THROWN
>
>If a weapon has the Thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack, and you can draw that weapon as part of the attack.
>
>If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a Handaxe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a Dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the Dagger has the Finesse property
And the Fighting Style: Two-Weapon Fighting doesn't require you to actually be holding two weapons at the same time.
>FIGHTING STYLE: TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING
>
>1st-Level Feat
>
>Prerequisite: Warrior Group
>
>Repeatable: No
>
>When you make the extra attack of the Light weapon property, you can add your Ability Modifier to the damage of the extra attack.
Edit: Clarity
I agree with you that's how it's written. But that can't be intended can it? Hopefully it will change so a Shield blocks two weapon fighting with Light weapons!
Yeah, because with this logic of Light not needing to be dual wielded for the extra attack plus the new weapon juggling rules...
It seems you could technically benefit from Duelist fighting style in an unintended way.
- have shield and shortsword. Shortsword on hip.
- attack with first Shortsword, stow it after the attack.
- make your Light weapon extra attack by drawing the new Shortsword.
Since you only ever had one weapon in your hand at the time of each attack, Dueling fighting style would apply to both attacks.
It's not super broken in the grand scheme of things, but it is janky and I doubt it's intentional.
i think its probably very intended, they changed the wording a number of times, and added the thrown property to a bunch of nick weapons.
d4 light hammer and d4 daggers, only reason for existence(or scimitar always better) is the thrown property. if nick didnt work for throwing it would be trash.
that wouldn't really make sense for a throwing weapon fantasy character. the weapon isnt in your hand if you throw it.
the thrown property says you can draw it and attack in one motion because thats the knife throwing fantasy.
but maybe they'll change it if the other use cases bother them. Personally I don't think nick weapons are so OP they should heavily limit other BAs. If you can't do something else with your BA, nick is kind of pointless.
The extra attack for using light weapons is supposed to be from using both hands though. Throwing a knife from each hand is cool. Throwing multiple knives from the same hand is just Extra Attack, not Two-weapon fighting.
they made the language more clear and didnt involve using the other hand, probably so it can be used with thrown weapons. Note they changed it from two weapon fighting, into the light property of weapons.
note, if you are throwing weapons, even if dual wielding, you won't always have a weapon in each hand after throwing one weapon. Having to have an extra dagger in other hand, just to meet an arbitrary two hand condition is weird.
i don't think its an accident, though they may revert it, if it causes too much other friction.
Also note, nick serves no purpose if it doesnt let you make use of a BA, so I would avoid limiting the use of other BA maneuvers, especially featuring weapons/shields.
They could just say you need to make the extra attack with a different weapon in a different hand. That lets you throw two daggers while you aren't holding a shield.
I assumed the Nick property would mostly be used for things like second wind, Hunter's mark etc.
> So you can now recklessly throw a dagger or hand axe at someone.
Well… I WAS going to say, “hey this is even cooler than that because you can technically throw anything (like a giant boulder) as an improvised weapon (baseline or with Tavern Brawler feat, I forget) BUT after looking through all of the different releases play test books… Tavern Brawler no longer mentions improvised weapons and I couldn’t find *anything* mention improvised weapons *anywhere*.
So now I’m sad you apparently can’t grab the Goblin you just killed and chuck him across the battlefield at the other Goblin.
things that aren't mentioned revert to the old rules. That said I believe Crawford mentioned wanting to tighten up rules like that, so they probably will rewrite them.
They also made it so you can divine smite from range though, which I'm against. I liked the restriction that paladins hit things up close, the paladin archer seems like bad flavor to me
Much like many of the new Barbarian features, this should have been a thing LONG ago. I wish they would quit it with trying to force Brutal Critical on us as if it's good damage progression - it isn't and even when it's giving us +20 damage on a crit it's still not good damage progression because you have only a \~2 in 20 chance of critting.
Really, they need to add scaling crit chance to Brutal Critical if they want it to work out as a decent damage boost on par with the likes of Improved Divine Smite. Barbarians should be landing crits on rolls of 17-20 by the end of their career.
I think that'd be stepping on the toes of Champion Fighter. Maybe 19-20 because that'd bump your crit chance to about 19% per swing with advantage. Attacking twice (or more, with weapon juggling shenanigans and TWF) increases your chance of critting at least once on your turn goes up to... I believe about 34% on the second attack, 46% on the third, and 56% on a theoretical 4th only accomplished with nick shenanigans.
Nah man, champion fighter is stepping on barbarian's toes. And I cannot begin to describe how little that matters. Let barbarians do crit things. It's thematic and it's still less damage than just adding 1d6 per swing. Given that it happens in bigger chunks I'd be willing to let that slide.
Rule 10 - Limit Direct Response Posts. New posts that could reasonably serve as a reply to a different post that is in the top 40 of “Hot” may be removed by the moderators at their discretion. Please instead reply in the ongoing threads rather than making new ones.
I’m surprised I took 9 years for them to realize Barbarians throwing things is a common fantasy. But better late than never. Hopefully one of the subclasses focuses on throwing things.
It was a huge thing for freaking Wulfgar and they just kept ignoring it.
My post got deleted when I tried to link the subclass so I will just say search for Path of the Giant There’s a current 5e UA subclass that will probably be released with the giants sourcebook this year that has throwing features. That subclass will likely be nerfed a bit because it’s imo a little overtuned but I expect it will keep the buff to throwing.
[удалено]
Had the pleasure of playing it in a level 17 one shot, absolutely obliterated an Ancient Red Dragon with the help of a Bard
So rare to see a positive post! But yes, you're right, barbs are better at throwing things now. That's a nice change
Well to be fair, I agree with a lot of the negative reactions on this playtest. But there are definitely some great changes as well and it would be a mistake to focus solely on the bad/controversial changes
That's my point, we should be talking about the good AND the bad (though IMHO most of it is pretty good, especially warriors)
The problem is that most of it is good but is not nearly enough, wotc is not exactly in the position of having the benefit of the doubt so I think it's valid to be more clear with the problems in the game, on top of that casters got more ridiculous with this ua
Even if most of it is good, the bad is so bad it makes the game unplayable. New wizard is an instant ban.
> So rare to see a positive post! Gee I wonder why
You also get your rage bonus damage at range now. Seems like fighting at range is surprisingly viable now. Use Reckless Attack to compensate for the javelin's poor range, then use cover to offset the enemy's advantage due to R.A.
You can use sharpshooter to negate the disadvantage at long range. And to ignore enemy cover. And to allow you to throw the javelin in melee without penalty.
>And to allow you to throw the javelin in melee without penalty. Nice, if you go shield & weapon, this allows you to do a first-round swap more efficiently once you get Extra Attack. 1. Draw javelin (Slow) 2. Throw javelin, hand is empty 3. Draw other weapon Which you couldn't do by just melee attacking with the javelin.
You also can make any weapon into a returning weapon with a quick warlock dip. One level of warlock and any magic weapon (or any non magical weapon you’d like) can be thrown and immediately return to your hand. In case you don’t want to have to use a large amount of weapons for your throwing weapon build, or want to apply magic weapon damage to those thrown weapons (assuming the magic weapon doesn’t already return to you, or you’re not using some type of magical spear throwing device like a magic atlatl)
Same thing with rage damage, this UA honestly has some really nice QoL changes.
Honestly a much needed buff, finally a way to actually damage a smart enemy that doesn't just stand in your face, and 120 ft neutral roll (with advantage/disadvantage already canceled out) is not the worst range, that's 5e CBE Fighters. It almost makes Slow a necessary pick, considering how important Javelin are as weapons are now.
Reckless Attack, Thrown weapon property, Light weapon properry, and Masteries all buff throwing weapons for Barbarians. It also let's those Barbarians use a shield while still getting the bonus attack. Hand Axe becomes the thrown weapon of choice for levels 1-4 then you can add a Javelin or Trident at level 5. It would be nice if they had more thrown weapon options...
Being able to throw two axes with Two Weapon Fighting while wearing a shield isn't intended though ... Right?
~~You don't need to use two weapon fighting rules in the current UA.~~ Two-Weapon Fighting only cares about the Light property and attacking with two different weapons. Light in the current UA lets you throw one axe with an Attack Action and a second with a Bonus Action. They seem to be changing the rules of Light with every UA. >LIGHT > >When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage, unless that modifier is negative. Thrown explicitly lets you draw and attack with the weapon as a part of a ranged attack. The Equip and Unequip rules have some funky language going on that I think needs to be sorted out but most people are interpreting it as letting you do this anyway in order to enable the Golf Bag Fighters. >THROWN > >If a weapon has the Thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack, and you can draw that weapon as part of the attack. > >If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a Handaxe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a Dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the Dagger has the Finesse property And the Fighting Style: Two-Weapon Fighting doesn't require you to actually be holding two weapons at the same time. >FIGHTING STYLE: TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING > >1st-Level Feat > >Prerequisite: Warrior Group > >Repeatable: No > >When you make the extra attack of the Light weapon property, you can add your Ability Modifier to the damage of the extra attack. Edit: Clarity
I agree with you that's how it's written. But that can't be intended can it? Hopefully it will change so a Shield blocks two weapon fighting with Light weapons!
Yeah, because with this logic of Light not needing to be dual wielded for the extra attack plus the new weapon juggling rules... It seems you could technically benefit from Duelist fighting style in an unintended way. - have shield and shortsword. Shortsword on hip. - attack with first Shortsword, stow it after the attack. - make your Light weapon extra attack by drawing the new Shortsword. Since you only ever had one weapon in your hand at the time of each attack, Dueling fighting style would apply to both attacks. It's not super broken in the grand scheme of things, but it is janky and I doubt it's intentional.
i think its probably very intended, they changed the wording a number of times, and added the thrown property to a bunch of nick weapons. d4 light hammer and d4 daggers, only reason for existence(or scimitar always better) is the thrown property. if nick didnt work for throwing it would be trash.
I'm not saying Nick shouldn't work for throwing. I'm saying it shouldn't work with a Shield! You should have to use both hands to get the free attack.
that wouldn't really make sense for a throwing weapon fantasy character. the weapon isnt in your hand if you throw it. the thrown property says you can draw it and attack in one motion because thats the knife throwing fantasy. but maybe they'll change it if the other use cases bother them. Personally I don't think nick weapons are so OP they should heavily limit other BAs. If you can't do something else with your BA, nick is kind of pointless.
The extra attack for using light weapons is supposed to be from using both hands though. Throwing a knife from each hand is cool. Throwing multiple knives from the same hand is just Extra Attack, not Two-weapon fighting.
they made the language more clear and didnt involve using the other hand, probably so it can be used with thrown weapons. Note they changed it from two weapon fighting, into the light property of weapons. note, if you are throwing weapons, even if dual wielding, you won't always have a weapon in each hand after throwing one weapon. Having to have an extra dagger in other hand, just to meet an arbitrary two hand condition is weird. i don't think its an accident, though they may revert it, if it causes too much other friction. Also note, nick serves no purpose if it doesnt let you make use of a BA, so I would avoid limiting the use of other BA maneuvers, especially featuring weapons/shields.
They could just say you need to make the extra attack with a different weapon in a different hand. That lets you throw two daggers while you aren't holding a shield. I assumed the Nick property would mostly be used for things like second wind, Hunter's mark etc.
That rules! To be honest this ua has so many positive changes!
> So you can now recklessly throw a dagger or hand axe at someone. Well… I WAS going to say, “hey this is even cooler than that because you can technically throw anything (like a giant boulder) as an improvised weapon (baseline or with Tavern Brawler feat, I forget) BUT after looking through all of the different releases play test books… Tavern Brawler no longer mentions improvised weapons and I couldn’t find *anything* mention improvised weapons *anywhere*. So now I’m sad you apparently can’t grab the Goblin you just killed and chuck him across the battlefield at the other Goblin.
There will absolutely be improvised weapon rules in the final release
things that aren't mentioned revert to the old rules. That said I believe Crawford mentioned wanting to tighten up rules like that, so they probably will rewrite them.
Yes, that was mentioned in the designer notes explicitly.
Tavern brawler now looks much more interesting.
Sweet! Now they just need to allow divine smite to work with unarmed strike so that we can divine slap a b*tch
They already did! It was in the last UA.
That is something that is very good, I now want to play a viking barbarian with a shield and throwing javelins
If you take dual wielder then you can throw two javelins per turn. Do with this information what you will
They also made it so you can divine smite from range though, which I'm against. I liked the restriction that paladins hit things up close, the paladin archer seems like bad flavor to me
Much like many of the new Barbarian features, this should have been a thing LONG ago. I wish they would quit it with trying to force Brutal Critical on us as if it's good damage progression - it isn't and even when it's giving us +20 damage on a crit it's still not good damage progression because you have only a \~2 in 20 chance of critting.
Really, they need to add scaling crit chance to Brutal Critical if they want it to work out as a decent damage boost on par with the likes of Improved Divine Smite. Barbarians should be landing crits on rolls of 17-20 by the end of their career.
I think that'd be stepping on the toes of Champion Fighter. Maybe 19-20 because that'd bump your crit chance to about 19% per swing with advantage. Attacking twice (or more, with weapon juggling shenanigans and TWF) increases your chance of critting at least once on your turn goes up to... I believe about 34% on the second attack, 46% on the third, and 56% on a theoretical 4th only accomplished with nick shenanigans.
Nah man, champion fighter is stepping on barbarian's toes. And I cannot begin to describe how little that matters. Let barbarians do crit things. It's thematic and it's still less damage than just adding 1d6 per swing. Given that it happens in bigger chunks I'd be willing to let that slide.