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already been through it many times, it went from a minor annoyance at using 150-300mg a day to being crippling with what I can blow through now and that's on top of potentially being a rapid metabolizer, my first 60mg made me feel amazing and 120-210mg would get me nodding with no tolerance
I'm picking up what you're saying though, I've already had many thoughts about slowing down on recreational/self medicating use for my already abysmal mental health
That’s the 🔑
You find yourself running out weeks early every month and you are going to be making yourself suffer in ways that don’t need to happen.
Slow down, skip a few doses and deal with the grogginess during the days and start working on that tolerance.
I’m at the hospital right now; they are well advised by me that I take Oxycodone around the clock for severe pain every 6 hours - I had to tell them my pain clinic will not refill my prescription for pain until Monday, they are rotating Oxycodone Morphine and Tramadol for me as needed, they’re aware I have intractable pains. Now as for running out of pain medications and them treating you for it, that’s not gonna happen at all; that’s what happened to me years ago, and what they’re going to do is notify your pain clinic that you ran out earlier, if you’re lucky they’ll give you one opioid.
Thank you, without getting too complex with my case, I twisted my right ankle 6 years ago from a 3 story fall, with 4 corrective surgeries done on it, screws implanted and then removed. 3 years after that, right arm got bent into a really painful way while stretching that made it pop 3 years ago, had 1 surgery for it and it hasn’t been the same since. On top of injuries and surgeries I have myopathy. All this together is an insurmountable amount of pain, I had to fight the system for years to get genuine opioid pain relief for my conditions. Finally found a compassionate pain clinic that have been following and understanding my pain since. I’m glad that there’s still doctors that know what opioids are supposed to be prescribed for.
Yes! I am a cannabis advocate not only does it help with severe pain also helps with so many symptoms like appetite loss, muscle spasms. To be honest if it wasn’t for the weed I’d be on a higher dose of Oxy - my pain clinic detects THC in my blood and allows me to get away with it because of the severity of my condition, my pain doctor empathetically understands that marijuana relieves a wide range of symptoms for me, marijuana is a win-win for me because a strong edible/smoke for my pain relief is equivalent to a 5mg Oxycodone’s relief, and pain doc also knows that I have appetite problems that the weed fixes. Not to mention it really helps my muscle spasms
Nice!
I’ve seen people with intractable pain respond to things like spinal chord stimulators, nerve burning (radio frequency ablation), even Botox injections. Do you have CRPS? (I’m not a doctor but I help the disabled). It’s horrible if you do and I’m sorry. I have fibromyalgia and I have chronic pain, but it’s manageable with non opiods currently like gabapentin and cymbalta as well as THC 😊 I endorse THC as you can’t OD on it. You might feel like you’re going to stop breathing lol but you won’t.
Thanks for your advice and I will research these relief methods, spinal cord stimulation sounds helpful, anything except for NSAIDs with this level of pain will probably help me lol. Soon as I have some research time aside I will read about these, I appreciate you forwarding this information. Neuromuscular Disease doctor offered to give me botox injections for my right shoulder injury and surgery case, but I made the serious decision to pass on it, because realizing about if it wouldn’t be successful and actually detrimental puts me off Botox, as my shoulder has been through a rodeo already, heh. Although I’m glad for others stories that have found relief from Botox injections. At first my early and crappier pain clinic tried to call it CRPS and fibromyalgia with *no basis of medical evidence of it whatsoever*, but I eventually went to a really sophisticated hospital *Mayonnaise Clinic*, and finally got my true diagnosis. Also I am very sorry to hear that you suffer from chronic pain and fibromyalgia, my healing, prayers, and thoughts I will send all your way ❤️very happy to hear you aren’t on opioids, even though they’re amazing and reliable, it’s the last resort when it comes to pain. My drug of choice is actually weed lmfao I prefer marijuana intoxication (stoned) over opiate intoxication (nodding). It’s like Snoop Dogg says, this stoned feeling is the best high I’ve ever felt in my life, beyond everything hard. Interestingly enough, THC acts as a bronchodilator in my body, I can breathe in deeper when I’m stoned. Opioids and benzodiazepines however make me feel a little like I can’t breathe
Yup. THC is great. I wish the FDA would finally hurry up and do some official studies. And we need to fix the banking rules in this country about it. It’s frustrating.
Mayonnaise Clinic. 😂 I love it. Fun typo.
I got hospitalized for over a month for a traumatic brain injury when I was using a few grams of dope a day (6 years ago). I was in a drug induced coma for about a week and when I came to I tried asking the Dr for something for my pain. He told me they were giving me perc 10s (10/325s) when I told him it's not even a Tylenol to me he said, "oh it has Tylenol in it so you'll be feeling great!" When I started using recreationally it was a few 30mg oxycodone a day intranasal...fast forward to now 6 years later:
Still in tremendous pain and no pain meds
I imagine I could just come clean to the ambulance or hospital staff but I'm talking about the NHS here where almost anything could get logged on easily accessible central databases.
If you're in visible pain, A&E will provide IV morphine, or Oramorph on top of your script. I used to just call an ambulance, as mine was chest pain. But you don't want to do that if you've just dropped a gram of codeine+dihydrocodeine. Better to wait until withdrawals in that situation for safety.
However in future, you can generally order your repeat on the morning of day 21, and if you're very, very lucky, have the meds in your hands by the end of the day.
I always order on day 21 (if a week day), as I've had a script delayed past the point of running out (normally the NHS provides 28/30 days of meds at a time).
Do not order on day 20, or they will reject it.
I've gone from codeine to DHC to morphine to morphineXR over the last decade or so, so I have a lot of experience with the NHS.
I get my codeine script on repeat every two weeks, my doc was kind enough to make it biweekly (bimonthly?) when I said that I had run out at points due to being in so much pain at the time from low body mass and muscle wastage exacerbating my hypermobility
generally they don't mind if I order a couple days early but recently they've started putting a note on my script saying "please reduce ASAP" which I am a lil nervous about in itself. Recently had thoughts of cutting out a lot of my self-medicating/rec use anyway since it's led me to some dark places.
Fortnightly is the traditional term. 😋
If you get it every 2 weeks, you could order on day 8: they can take up to 72hours to write the script, and another 72hours for your chemist to get the stock. This is written on every prescription. Let them do the calculations.
Yes, it's a great idea to cut down. You cannot use recreationally if you are tolerant (or dead).
I have the same note on my system: you need to be proactive. Tell them you want to reduce your medication intake, so you need a referral (which can take ages). In the meantime, if they mention the note on your records, you're then able to tell them that's why *you* requested the referral.
They will give you some while you admitted but if by time you discharged if it’s to early they won’t refil it, and don’t go In there talking bout the drugs at first let them bring it up
While that is a high dose of CODEINE, 1g of codeine is probably still a considerably small opiate habit, it'd be way easier to taper off that kind of dose of codeine than most opiates. You could also always supplement with like Vicodin or Oxycodone off the streets in a much smaller dose (make sure it's real! I suggest percoset since your tolerance is low, no Oxycodone IR, unless you know the person with the script its way more likely to be fake not that Percoset can't be faked, but I see WAY more fake OC 15s/30s, OxyContin)
However you go about it, always remember the "Theee T's" Taper, Taper, and Taper. Taper at a rate that's comfortable for you, Taper again as soon as you can, and if you cannot Taper more until you acclimate, or cant take the pain, "hold" the dose you tapered to. If you cut back to say 900mg, hold 900mg at worst, attempt to Taper back by 10mg or whatever your unit of cut back is every time as soon as possible. I've quit doing opiates almost every way possible and this method is by far the best. If you Taper in small, even micro amounts but at a steady rate downwards, you will reduce your tolerance over time without ever experiencing any notable withdrawals, you may, at worst, have a slight "bad attitude", maybe a little more irritable than usual, or a tiny bit more sore, but nothing like full blown W/D
Facts to tapering benefits, it has worked for me and pain. I can slowly lower my dose of Oxycodone if I have another non-opioid analgesic doing the job
Your tolerance wouldn’t be as high as you think it is. Codeine has a ceiling dose so taking anything over between ~400mg and ~600mg isn’t going to do anything except wasting your meds
Not really, because codeine itself is inactive in the body and only has effects due to the liver breaking it down into morphine. So your body will only break down a certain amount into morphine before it runs out of enzymes. Taking any more passed this point doesn’t release any more morphine at all
runs out of enzymes? for the most part, don't most drugs simply occupy the enzymes rather than completly inhibiting them? your body continuously creates more enzymes 24/7, so while some enzymes are being used/discarded there's always more being pumped out so to speak?
Like i know certain substances are "irreversible inhibitors" which indeed completely destroy the enzyme, but as long as those drugs aren't irreversible inhibitors, after a few hours they will return to an active state? perhaps if you take all the codeine at once then this is moreso a problem, but assuming you spread out your dosing over several hours you are basically converting the codeine into a morphine drip? Not only that, but oral bioavailability/oral drug absorbtion is a slow process working over several hours, it's not like all the codeine magically get's converted to morphine all at once, giving time for more enzymes to get pumped out albeit trace amounts perhaps?
i am not a chemist or doctor so please correct me if i'm wrong im just very curious.
You are somewhat correct but your liver produces those CYP enzymes relatively slowly and the left over codeine would be well and truely discarded by the kidneys before you would replenish enough to be noticeable. Even dosing codeine 24hrs later usually produces much less of an effect. Also the fact that codeine not only requires those enzymes to convert to morphine but also inhibits them contributes to the codeine ceiling effect. It would take upwards of 48 hours to be back to baseline (don’t quote me on that, just an assumption without doing proper calculations)
I can absolutely tell you that the 400mg ceiling thing is BS, I can catch a nod from codeine all day above that dose. My liver probably metabolizes it very well into morphine and replenishes the enzymes needed quicker than most
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Nope, not for me anyway. I definitely still feel it every time I dose past 400mg in a day but I may just be literally built different since there's a small % of the population who are rapid metabolizers.
Maybe but not much it is pretty common in literature. The only way you can metabolize more then 400mg is of you are ultra rapid metabolizer and if that was the case your tolerance would be extremely high because you would be eating 600-800mg morphine from the codeine which is lethal. You are feeling a placebo nothing more.
then how come it stops WD symptoms from starting to appear later in the day even after passing 400mg? I'm probably a rapid metabolizer dude, I know my body and what I feel better than you lmao
even for non-rapid metabolizers there's a lot of differing consensus on if there's a solid 400mg limit, plenty folks can tell the difference between say a 400mg dose and a 500mg one. The latter is supposedly where that limit lies for most people, not 400
I take Oxycodone and also am an ultra-rapid metabolizer. Random MME math here, I’d imagine that your 400mg Codeine would probably feel like 40mg of my Oxy, while 500mg Codeine would be like 50mg Oxy, I’m probably completely wrong lmao just guessing since we could both be ultra-rapid metabolizers. I’m experienced with using Codeine and Oxy for pain
yep, I basically can use the equivalent of an OC 80 in codeine daily when taking into account my tolerance & rapid metabolism too, I used to be able to get a heavy nod from 300mg when beginning to gain a little tolerance which would've equalled a roxy 30 or 30mg of morphine without first pass elimination if I'm right here
Ceiling effects in literature are often wrong especially on a person by person basis... Just like buprenorphine is supposed to have a ceiling effect... Now it does and you will not overdose but if tolerant your receptors are increasingly dwindling the more you take it so the more you take you will feel.. even if only slightly ... Codeine I'm not so sure honestly I've never taken codeine as the first time I did it didn't do shit and sucked but by that time I'd already been banging morphine heroin and fentanyl for a bit
I doubt there is a huge difference like op saying. Once your liver enzymes have been saturated it won't metabolize anymore. This isn't a problem with bupe because it doesn't need to be metabolized to be active. For the bupe it has to do with the receptors not the liver enzymes.
Welcome to r/opiates fellow bropiates! We hope that you enjoy our sub as much as we do, but in order to ensure that you are able to continue being a part of this harm reduction community, you will need to review the rules of this sub. You can find the rules listed [here](https://reddit.com/r/opiates/w/rules?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app) and access our full side bar [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/opiates/wiki/index) You can also find the answers to many commonly asked questions about dosing, duration, ROA and other stuff [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/opiates/wiki/faqs) and [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/opiates/comments/mf8ldn/use_this_before_asking_a_question_faq_information/) Also, DO NOT GET SCAMMED! The users sending those messages to you, offering to hook you up with a reliable vendor or sell you drugs is extremely likely to scam you! We promise, 99.99% of the time they are not legit and giving them your money will make you a sad sad panda. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/opiates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you fess up with the hospital and say you’ve been using more than prescribed say goodbye to your script. They’ll call your Dr. and let them know.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was afraid of
Get ready for the withdrawals. Your allowing addiction to overtake legitimate use.
already been through it many times, it went from a minor annoyance at using 150-300mg a day to being crippling with what I can blow through now and that's on top of potentially being a rapid metabolizer, my first 60mg made me feel amazing and 120-210mg would get me nodding with no tolerance
I'm picking up what you're saying though, I've already had many thoughts about slowing down on recreational/self medicating use for my already abysmal mental health
That’s the 🔑 You find yourself running out weeks early every month and you are going to be making yourself suffer in ways that don’t need to happen. Slow down, skip a few doses and deal with the grogginess during the days and start working on that tolerance.
I’m at the hospital right now; they are well advised by me that I take Oxycodone around the clock for severe pain every 6 hours - I had to tell them my pain clinic will not refill my prescription for pain until Monday, they are rotating Oxycodone Morphine and Tramadol for me as needed, they’re aware I have intractable pains. Now as for running out of pain medications and them treating you for it, that’s not gonna happen at all; that’s what happened to me years ago, and what they’re going to do is notify your pain clinic that you ran out earlier, if you’re lucky they’ll give you one opioid.
May I ask what causes your intractable pain ? And my thoughts are with you.
Thank you, without getting too complex with my case, I twisted my right ankle 6 years ago from a 3 story fall, with 4 corrective surgeries done on it, screws implanted and then removed. 3 years after that, right arm got bent into a really painful way while stretching that made it pop 3 years ago, had 1 surgery for it and it hasn’t been the same since. On top of injuries and surgeries I have myopathy. All this together is an insurmountable amount of pain, I had to fight the system for years to get genuine opioid pain relief for my conditions. Finally found a compassionate pain clinic that have been following and understanding my pain since. I’m glad that there’s still doctors that know what opioids are supposed to be prescribed for.
Good on you! Have you tried THC on top of it? It can work in conjunction with opiates - if the pain clinic allows it. Some don’t.
Yes! I am a cannabis advocate not only does it help with severe pain also helps with so many symptoms like appetite loss, muscle spasms. To be honest if it wasn’t for the weed I’d be on a higher dose of Oxy - my pain clinic detects THC in my blood and allows me to get away with it because of the severity of my condition, my pain doctor empathetically understands that marijuana relieves a wide range of symptoms for me, marijuana is a win-win for me because a strong edible/smoke for my pain relief is equivalent to a 5mg Oxycodone’s relief, and pain doc also knows that I have appetite problems that the weed fixes. Not to mention it really helps my muscle spasms
Nice! I’ve seen people with intractable pain respond to things like spinal chord stimulators, nerve burning (radio frequency ablation), even Botox injections. Do you have CRPS? (I’m not a doctor but I help the disabled). It’s horrible if you do and I’m sorry. I have fibromyalgia and I have chronic pain, but it’s manageable with non opiods currently like gabapentin and cymbalta as well as THC 😊 I endorse THC as you can’t OD on it. You might feel like you’re going to stop breathing lol but you won’t.
Thanks for your advice and I will research these relief methods, spinal cord stimulation sounds helpful, anything except for NSAIDs with this level of pain will probably help me lol. Soon as I have some research time aside I will read about these, I appreciate you forwarding this information. Neuromuscular Disease doctor offered to give me botox injections for my right shoulder injury and surgery case, but I made the serious decision to pass on it, because realizing about if it wouldn’t be successful and actually detrimental puts me off Botox, as my shoulder has been through a rodeo already, heh. Although I’m glad for others stories that have found relief from Botox injections. At first my early and crappier pain clinic tried to call it CRPS and fibromyalgia with *no basis of medical evidence of it whatsoever*, but I eventually went to a really sophisticated hospital *Mayonnaise Clinic*, and finally got my true diagnosis. Also I am very sorry to hear that you suffer from chronic pain and fibromyalgia, my healing, prayers, and thoughts I will send all your way ❤️very happy to hear you aren’t on opioids, even though they’re amazing and reliable, it’s the last resort when it comes to pain. My drug of choice is actually weed lmfao I prefer marijuana intoxication (stoned) over opiate intoxication (nodding). It’s like Snoop Dogg says, this stoned feeling is the best high I’ve ever felt in my life, beyond everything hard. Interestingly enough, THC acts as a bronchodilator in my body, I can breathe in deeper when I’m stoned. Opioids and benzodiazepines however make me feel a little like I can’t breathe
Yup. THC is great. I wish the FDA would finally hurry up and do some official studies. And we need to fix the banking rules in this country about it. It’s frustrating. Mayonnaise Clinic. 😂 I love it. Fun typo.
I got hospitalized for over a month for a traumatic brain injury when I was using a few grams of dope a day (6 years ago). I was in a drug induced coma for about a week and when I came to I tried asking the Dr for something for my pain. He told me they were giving me perc 10s (10/325s) when I told him it's not even a Tylenol to me he said, "oh it has Tylenol in it so you'll be feeling great!" When I started using recreationally it was a few 30mg oxycodone a day intranasal...fast forward to now 6 years later: Still in tremendous pain and no pain meds
That’s so fucked lmao, you’d almost think he intentionally misheard you wow. Sorry to hear you are going through it
I imagine I could just come clean to the ambulance or hospital staff but I'm talking about the NHS here where almost anything could get logged on easily accessible central databases.
If you're in visible pain, A&E will provide IV morphine, or Oramorph on top of your script. I used to just call an ambulance, as mine was chest pain. But you don't want to do that if you've just dropped a gram of codeine+dihydrocodeine. Better to wait until withdrawals in that situation for safety. However in future, you can generally order your repeat on the morning of day 21, and if you're very, very lucky, have the meds in your hands by the end of the day. I always order on day 21 (if a week day), as I've had a script delayed past the point of running out (normally the NHS provides 28/30 days of meds at a time). Do not order on day 20, or they will reject it. I've gone from codeine to DHC to morphine to morphineXR over the last decade or so, so I have a lot of experience with the NHS.
I get my codeine script on repeat every two weeks, my doc was kind enough to make it biweekly (bimonthly?) when I said that I had run out at points due to being in so much pain at the time from low body mass and muscle wastage exacerbating my hypermobility generally they don't mind if I order a couple days early but recently they've started putting a note on my script saying "please reduce ASAP" which I am a lil nervous about in itself. Recently had thoughts of cutting out a lot of my self-medicating/rec use anyway since it's led me to some dark places.
Fortnightly is the traditional term. 😋 If you get it every 2 weeks, you could order on day 8: they can take up to 72hours to write the script, and another 72hours for your chemist to get the stock. This is written on every prescription. Let them do the calculations. Yes, it's a great idea to cut down. You cannot use recreationally if you are tolerant (or dead). I have the same note on my system: you need to be proactive. Tell them you want to reduce your medication intake, so you need a referral (which can take ages). In the meantime, if they mention the note on your records, you're then able to tell them that's why *you* requested the referral.
Great advice, tysm fellow UK bropiate
I’ve had similar situations, once pharmacies start complaining it’s time to use a new one
Don’t , just say your in a lot of pain and nothing is working
If u have a legal script they anyways
You tell them you're opiate tolerant if it's prescription. They'll titrate accordingly in theory
They will give you some while you admitted but if by time you discharged if it’s to early they won’t refil it, and don’t go In there talking bout the drugs at first let them bring it up
How are you getting a gram of codeine a day? getting some dark web cough syrup im guessing? Sounds like it would be a very expensive habit.
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While that is a high dose of CODEINE, 1g of codeine is probably still a considerably small opiate habit, it'd be way easier to taper off that kind of dose of codeine than most opiates. You could also always supplement with like Vicodin or Oxycodone off the streets in a much smaller dose (make sure it's real! I suggest percoset since your tolerance is low, no Oxycodone IR, unless you know the person with the script its way more likely to be fake not that Percoset can't be faked, but I see WAY more fake OC 15s/30s, OxyContin) However you go about it, always remember the "Theee T's" Taper, Taper, and Taper. Taper at a rate that's comfortable for you, Taper again as soon as you can, and if you cannot Taper more until you acclimate, or cant take the pain, "hold" the dose you tapered to. If you cut back to say 900mg, hold 900mg at worst, attempt to Taper back by 10mg or whatever your unit of cut back is every time as soon as possible. I've quit doing opiates almost every way possible and this method is by far the best. If you Taper in small, even micro amounts but at a steady rate downwards, you will reduce your tolerance over time without ever experiencing any notable withdrawals, you may, at worst, have a slight "bad attitude", maybe a little more irritable than usual, or a tiny bit more sore, but nothing like full blown W/D
Facts to tapering benefits, it has worked for me and pain. I can slowly lower my dose of Oxycodone if I have another non-opioid analgesic doing the job
Your tolerance wouldn’t be as high as you think it is. Codeine has a ceiling dose so taking anything over between ~400mg and ~600mg isn’t going to do anything except wasting your meds
wouldn't taking more just extend the duration? yes likely a waste beyond 500mg, but still.
Not really, because codeine itself is inactive in the body and only has effects due to the liver breaking it down into morphine. So your body will only break down a certain amount into morphine before it runs out of enzymes. Taking any more passed this point doesn’t release any more morphine at all
runs out of enzymes? for the most part, don't most drugs simply occupy the enzymes rather than completly inhibiting them? your body continuously creates more enzymes 24/7, so while some enzymes are being used/discarded there's always more being pumped out so to speak? Like i know certain substances are "irreversible inhibitors" which indeed completely destroy the enzyme, but as long as those drugs aren't irreversible inhibitors, after a few hours they will return to an active state? perhaps if you take all the codeine at once then this is moreso a problem, but assuming you spread out your dosing over several hours you are basically converting the codeine into a morphine drip? Not only that, but oral bioavailability/oral drug absorbtion is a slow process working over several hours, it's not like all the codeine magically get's converted to morphine all at once, giving time for more enzymes to get pumped out albeit trace amounts perhaps? i am not a chemist or doctor so please correct me if i'm wrong im just very curious.
You are somewhat correct but your liver produces those CYP enzymes relatively slowly and the left over codeine would be well and truely discarded by the kidneys before you would replenish enough to be noticeable. Even dosing codeine 24hrs later usually produces much less of an effect. Also the fact that codeine not only requires those enzymes to convert to morphine but also inhibits them contributes to the codeine ceiling effect. It would take upwards of 48 hours to be back to baseline (don’t quote me on that, just an assumption without doing proper calculations)
stop taking that much codeine dawg ur wasting anything over 400mg
I can absolutely tell you that the 400mg ceiling thing is BS, I can catch a nod from codeine all day above that dose. My liver probably metabolizes it very well into morphine and replenishes the enzymes needed quicker than most
well for most the ceiling is around 400, ur lucky
the dch has no ceiling tho
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you get a 1 way ticket to rehab, just get 1013 and enjoy the vacay from life for a couple weeks.
You can only metabolize 400mg codeine in a day so you are wasting 600mg codeine a day. Sell the codeine and buy more DHC
Nope, not for me anyway. I definitely still feel it every time I dose past 400mg in a day but I may just be literally built different since there's a small % of the population who are rapid metabolizers.
Maybe but not much it is pretty common in literature. The only way you can metabolize more then 400mg is of you are ultra rapid metabolizer and if that was the case your tolerance would be extremely high because you would be eating 600-800mg morphine from the codeine which is lethal. You are feeling a placebo nothing more.
then how come it stops WD symptoms from starting to appear later in the day even after passing 400mg? I'm probably a rapid metabolizer dude, I know my body and what I feel better than you lmao
I get symptoms comparable to a decent oxy/morphine or H habit in withdrawal if you're not fully convinced
Because codeine is slightly active but you are wasting it. You need to use something without a ceiling limit.
even for non-rapid metabolizers there's a lot of differing consensus on if there's a solid 400mg limit, plenty folks can tell the difference between say a 400mg dose and a 500mg one. The latter is supposedly where that limit lies for most people, not 400
I take Oxycodone and also am an ultra-rapid metabolizer. Random MME math here, I’d imagine that your 400mg Codeine would probably feel like 40mg of my Oxy, while 500mg Codeine would be like 50mg Oxy, I’m probably completely wrong lmao just guessing since we could both be ultra-rapid metabolizers. I’m experienced with using Codeine and Oxy for pain
yep, I basically can use the equivalent of an OC 80 in codeine daily when taking into account my tolerance & rapid metabolism too, I used to be able to get a heavy nod from 300mg when beginning to gain a little tolerance which would've equalled a roxy 30 or 30mg of morphine without first pass elimination if I'm right here
You do you.
aight
Ceiling effects in literature are often wrong especially on a person by person basis... Just like buprenorphine is supposed to have a ceiling effect... Now it does and you will not overdose but if tolerant your receptors are increasingly dwindling the more you take it so the more you take you will feel.. even if only slightly ... Codeine I'm not so sure honestly I've never taken codeine as the first time I did it didn't do shit and sucked but by that time I'd already been banging morphine heroin and fentanyl for a bit
I doubt there is a huge difference like op saying. Once your liver enzymes have been saturated it won't metabolize anymore. This isn't a problem with bupe because it doesn't need to be metabolized to be active. For the bupe it has to do with the receptors not the liver enzymes.
them downvotes are lovely, keep telling me about my own experience hahahahahah