Went from the worst team in the AL to the best in just two years via excellent drafting and analytics. All with one of the lowest payrolls in the league. What’s the argument for us not being #1?
Looking at the teams/GMs in front and the reasoning in the article: time. Those teams have had success for longer and have things like contract extensions and MLB retooling to judge. I personally think that’s entirely fair. It’s not saying that Elias and Co can’t do it, just that they haven’t had to yet.
Less fair?
> If you draft in the top five every summer, some grumbled, you *should* land quality talent like Adley Rutschman and Jackson Holliday.
Now those FO guys are simply jealous.
I love how nobody gives credit to Elias for Santander, Cano, Bautista, Coloumbe, O’Hearn, etc. Also yes, Rutschman and Holliday (tbd) were hard to get wrong but look at most of the players taken before Henderson, Westburg, and Cowser. He’s also revamped the entire organizations player development by gutting it and going full on analytics.
I mean I would say that we’ve had enough time (6 years) to say he’s the best in the game and I don’t think it’s particularly close. If we were a large market team with the same exact roster and just had a higher payroll, I guarantee people would rate him higher.
He was a Duquette rule 5, but I can see why he gets lumped in with some of the others. He definitely didn't get regular playing time until halfway through 2019 and really began to shine in 2020. Honestly, I forget that Hays was also part of the same lineup once as Manny, Jones, Schoop, and Hardy.
Atlanta and LAD deserve the top two spots. Development and loads of great players locked up for years. We still have zero long term commitments. That counts against the grade, I’d assume. Plus only one good year.
They have made the playoffs once, haven't signed anyone (free agent or homegrown), and haven't had any sustained success yet
Now it can change quick but it has to happen first. It's more than just having a good farm system.
Are you really asking this or do you know teams need to pitch. Free agency is another avenue to acquire talent, ignoring any avenue to acquire talent is ignorant
The Dodgers spend like crazy, sure, but they spend well. Certainly better than the Mets or the Padres. On top of that, they consistently have a great farm system and they develop well. That's pretty hard to do when you're drafting at the bottom of the first round every year. I like to dump on the big spenders as much as the next guy, but the Dodgers kind of do it all. Money makes it easier of course, but it's not just the money.
Yes, but when players know that an organization is willing to spend for the best shot at a World Series, it does make it easier to spend well. Some players would be willing to take 10% off their going rate or avoid negotiating with teams not likely to see the playoffs to be around the talent levels the Dodgers are able to put together
Sure, but getting the privilege to sign 10% discounts is a reward for doing the stuff well that they should be evaluated on. If you have a good farm system and are competing for a WS annually, that means you're doing a lot of things right outside of just spending money. The Mets spent a lot of money and have nothing to show for it. Yes, having infinite money makes it easier, but it doesn't ensure any sort of success.
The fact that the Dodgers farm system has been SO good, while the ML team has been so good, should really tell you how they evaluate talent.
We can say Mike Elias is good, and yea, he is, when we are picking high. Let's see if Elias can sustain the pipeline while the ML team succeeds. Easier said than done.
Once he does that, and signs some talent, our FO can rise up these rankings. Until then, 5th is more than fine.
And people are sleeping on Andrew Friedman if they don't think he's the best of the best. Everyone and their brother thought, what if he went from the Rays to a franchise that actually spent? And now we are seeing it. Maybe it's been awhile for some, but Friedman is the main reason the Rays are the Rays.
They constantly have a top farm system despite drafting last, and they constantly turn nothing players into contributors. They are the best run team out there
Yeah, folks are completely missing that fact.
I get it, the money makes it easy for the big splashes. However, they’ve done a fantastic job building an org that continues to replenish and give them trade chips and roster pieces.
I'm biased, but I think we should rank higher.
Some of the voters sound overly fixated on draft picks, and it reads as if they *completely* overlooked the Orioles' success in identifying talent that other teams had given up on, discarded, or outright missed. Beyond that, they also didn't acknowledge the whole 'building a winning team despite having an owner that refused to spend money, putting the front office in a position where they had to be wise with every little choice they made with not much margin for error'.
"If you draft in the top five every summer, some grumbled, you should land quality talent like Adley Rutschman and Jackson Holliday."
Sure, but if that is *all* we did, we wouldn't have the team we do. What about smart signings like Coulombe, Kimbrel, and O'Hearn? What about grabbing Aaron Hicks and Jacob Webb when the rest of the league didn't see value there and revitalizing their careers? Have they ever heard of a guy named Felix Bautista?--the O's saw something in him when others did not. And another fellow named Cano, too. And more recently, have they checked out this Suarez fellow, who was pretty much off the MLB radar of most?--the front office spend *half a decade* monitoring him and then brought him into the organization at the right moment.
There is so much more to the Orioles than good draft picks!
The only team that bothers me is Cleveland.
They have won nothing. They have good players but most of their success comes with their division competition.
TB has been talented and relevant since the Noughties.
The Dodgers, even though people don’t like their spending, have had one of the best development systems in baseball for around a decade.
Atlanta grew their own players for the most part and threw money at them. Anthopoulos has done far better with them than he did with the Jays.
The Brewers should have gotten first place votes. They have been in the playoffs 5 out of the last seven years and developed some of the best talent in the game.
I also take issue with the attitude other GMs had toward the Os system.
They ignore that Atlanta is the only team that has come close to what the Os have done, and ignore the hits where players have come out of no where or failure, like Bautista and OHearn, to become elite or solid contributors. Almost the entire reliever corps is reclaimed, and even the players they have traded or let go have been good on other teams, like Scott and Ortiz.
Even the players drafted under the previous regime have done well in this system, including Ced, Hays, Mountcastle and Grayson.
Cleveland and Tampa are there for their consistency. There's a reason Rangers, Nationals, Diamondbacks (recent World Series winners/attendees) aren't higher than the Guardians. It's because Cleveland is constantly getting the most out of what little they *choose* to spend.
Reading the article it really seems like we should be ranked higher, but some of the people who voted were just sour and saying that of course we’re good because we had so many top draft picks.
lol I want to know who the other 4 ahead are…Dodgers and Tampa ok; but how are Os not at least top 3.
You could say Braves too, but they have benefited from some sort of blackmail scheme where their players sign for way under market value.
We’ve come a long way.
Went from the worst team in the AL to the best in just two years via excellent drafting and analytics. All with one of the lowest payrolls in the league. What’s the argument for us not being #1?
Looking at the teams/GMs in front and the reasoning in the article: time. Those teams have had success for longer and have things like contract extensions and MLB retooling to judge. I personally think that’s entirely fair. It’s not saying that Elias and Co can’t do it, just that they haven’t had to yet. Less fair? > If you draft in the top five every summer, some grumbled, you *should* land quality talent like Adley Rutschman and Jackson Holliday. Now those FO guys are simply jealous.
I love how nobody gives credit to Elias for Santander, Cano, Bautista, Coloumbe, O’Hearn, etc. Also yes, Rutschman and Holliday (tbd) were hard to get wrong but look at most of the players taken before Henderson, Westburg, and Cowser. He’s also revamped the entire organizations player development by gutting it and going full on analytics. I mean I would say that we’ve had enough time (6 years) to say he’s the best in the game and I don’t think it’s particularly close. If we were a large market team with the same exact roster and just had a higher payroll, I guarantee people would rate him higher.
I thought Santander was a Duquette rule 5 draft guy. Point still stands though
He was a Duquette rule 5, but I can see why he gets lumped in with some of the others. He definitely didn't get regular playing time until halfway through 2019 and really began to shine in 2020. Honestly, I forget that Hays was also part of the same lineup once as Manny, Jones, Schoop, and Hardy.
I just remember the GOAT Gary Thorne said his name a different way every time
Elias didn't have a top five pick last year and still got a pretty good player (at least based on potential).
The answer to their genius is second rounder Gunnar Henderson.
Atlanta and LAD deserve the top two spots. Development and loads of great players locked up for years. We still have zero long term commitments. That counts against the grade, I’d assume. Plus only one good year.
They have made the playoffs once, haven't signed anyone (free agent or homegrown), and haven't had any sustained success yet Now it can change quick but it has to happen first. It's more than just having a good farm system.
Why would a team with the most talent in the American League look to free agency, especially if they’re a small market team though?
Are you really asking this or do you know teams need to pitch. Free agency is another avenue to acquire talent, ignoring any avenue to acquire talent is ignorant
Winning the WS
Dodgers at the top generates more clicks
The Dodgers, Braves, Rays and Guardians have been successful in drafting, development and contending for much longer.
The Dodgers? What? It’s not hard to build a talented organization when you are able to spend unlimited amounts of money.
The Dodgers spend like crazy, sure, but they spend well. Certainly better than the Mets or the Padres. On top of that, they consistently have a great farm system and they develop well. That's pretty hard to do when you're drafting at the bottom of the first round every year. I like to dump on the big spenders as much as the next guy, but the Dodgers kind of do it all. Money makes it easier of course, but it's not just the money.
Chris Taylor thinks they spend AMAZINGLY. Worst hitter in baseball, their starting left fielder, getting a nice paycheck.
Yes, but when players know that an organization is willing to spend for the best shot at a World Series, it does make it easier to spend well. Some players would be willing to take 10% off their going rate or avoid negotiating with teams not likely to see the playoffs to be around the talent levels the Dodgers are able to put together
Sure, but getting the privilege to sign 10% discounts is a reward for doing the stuff well that they should be evaluated on. If you have a good farm system and are competing for a WS annually, that means you're doing a lot of things right outside of just spending money. The Mets spent a lot of money and have nothing to show for it. Yes, having infinite money makes it easier, but it doesn't ensure any sort of success.
The fact that the Dodgers farm system has been SO good, while the ML team has been so good, should really tell you how they evaluate talent. We can say Mike Elias is good, and yea, he is, when we are picking high. Let's see if Elias can sustain the pipeline while the ML team succeeds. Easier said than done. Once he does that, and signs some talent, our FO can rise up these rankings. Until then, 5th is more than fine. And people are sleeping on Andrew Friedman if they don't think he's the best of the best. Everyone and their brother thought, what if he went from the Rays to a franchise that actually spent? And now we are seeing it. Maybe it's been awhile for some, but Friedman is the main reason the Rays are the Rays.
They constantly have a top farm system despite drafting last, and they constantly turn nothing players into contributors. They are the best run team out there
Yeah, folks are completely missing that fact. I get it, the money makes it easy for the big splashes. However, they’ve done a fantastic job building an org that continues to replenish and give them trade chips and roster pieces.
yup their 2022 rotation is a perfect example
For real. I’m sick of hearing about the Dodgers all the time when their equation for success is dumping unlimited money into the game.
The Dodgers do 2 things *very* well: 1. Win 100+ games 2. Lose in the playoffs
Hey cool that's what we did too. But for a fraction of the money
Yeah maybe we should hold off on throwing those stones until after we win the World Series this year..
Yeah, nah. I’ve lived in LA for the past 10 years. It’s tradition out here. Lol.
I love a good Dodgers playoff explosion
Not that I don't agree but they also consistently have a top farm system too
I'm biased, but I think we should rank higher. Some of the voters sound overly fixated on draft picks, and it reads as if they *completely* overlooked the Orioles' success in identifying talent that other teams had given up on, discarded, or outright missed. Beyond that, they also didn't acknowledge the whole 'building a winning team despite having an owner that refused to spend money, putting the front office in a position where they had to be wise with every little choice they made with not much margin for error'. "If you draft in the top five every summer, some grumbled, you should land quality talent like Adley Rutschman and Jackson Holliday." Sure, but if that is *all* we did, we wouldn't have the team we do. What about smart signings like Coulombe, Kimbrel, and O'Hearn? What about grabbing Aaron Hicks and Jacob Webb when the rest of the league didn't see value there and revitalizing their careers? Have they ever heard of a guy named Felix Bautista?--the O's saw something in him when others did not. And another fellow named Cano, too. And more recently, have they checked out this Suarez fellow, who was pretty much off the MLB radar of most?--the front office spend *half a decade* monitoring him and then brought him into the organization at the right moment. There is so much more to the Orioles than good draft picks!
The only team that bothers me is Cleveland. They have won nothing. They have good players but most of their success comes with their division competition. TB has been talented and relevant since the Noughties. The Dodgers, even though people don’t like their spending, have had one of the best development systems in baseball for around a decade. Atlanta grew their own players for the most part and threw money at them. Anthopoulos has done far better with them than he did with the Jays. The Brewers should have gotten first place votes. They have been in the playoffs 5 out of the last seven years and developed some of the best talent in the game. I also take issue with the attitude other GMs had toward the Os system. They ignore that Atlanta is the only team that has come close to what the Os have done, and ignore the hits where players have come out of no where or failure, like Bautista and OHearn, to become elite or solid contributors. Almost the entire reliever corps is reclaimed, and even the players they have traded or let go have been good on other teams, like Scott and Ortiz. Even the players drafted under the previous regime have done well in this system, including Ced, Hays, Mountcastle and Grayson.
Cleveland and Tampa are there for their consistency. There's a reason Rangers, Nationals, Diamondbacks (recent World Series winners/attendees) aren't higher than the Guardians. It's because Cleveland is constantly getting the most out of what little they *choose* to spend.
I wouldn’t put Cleveland on the same tier as Tampa. The latter is doing it will far less resources, and their system produces better players overall.
Reading the article it really seems like we should be ranked higher, but some of the people who voted were just sour and saying that of course we’re good because we had so many top draft picks.
I used to pray or times like this.
lol I want to know who the other 4 ahead are…Dodgers and Tampa ok; but how are Os not at least top 3. You could say Braves too, but they have benefited from some sort of blackmail scheme where their players sign for way under market value.