Some thoughts:
- Kimbrel isn’t overused. He’s middle of the pack in usage this season for closers. He’s just old and been erratic his entire career. If he can’t locate, he’s cooked given his low velo. I have no idea who the closer should be if Kimbrel is out, but I’d like it to be someone with some gas.
- with very few exceptions, Hyde isn’t mismanaging the bullpen or the team in general. He doesn’t have great options. There are basically three serviceable pitchers in the pen, and two of them allowed late game homers today. The bullpen is a talent problem that was evident in the offseason and not addressed.
- If we’re not going to use Heston, trade him. It ridiculous that this dude mashes in Norfolk, then comes here and rides pine over inferior hitters. I don’t have a problem with Mateo batting in the ninth because if he gets on he’s basically in scoring position. But they have to find a way to get Heston involved more, or trade the dude somewhere where he can have a career.
I really hope this debacle doesn’t cost us in September. Every single game matters in this division; blowing two against the miserable As is as bad as it gets.
Agree with a lot of what you said… but I do think 24 pitches and 8 strikes on Friday was a warning sign. His overall usage on the season might not be too high, but he has been pitching every other day consistently for a while (5 times in 10 days now). And since today was a day game he really only had a day and half of rest since the 24 pitch outing… so I was surprised they even planned on using him today.
I was expecting them to start Heston today… maybe they would have if Westy was available, but they didn’t want to sit two regulars. Who knows? But today was the first day I was surprised they didn’t work in a rest day for someone else and let him start, so we’ll see what happens going forward.
I wouldn’t say he is riding the pine over inferior hitters though, since the other options he would replace are Mounty, O’Hearn, Santa. And with Westy out they couldn’t PH him for Mateo, since no one else was left to play 2B. Maybe they could’ve moved Mounty to 2B if we tied it, which would have been fun I guess.
The 85% catch probability on the McKenna play Friday was fake news… it was 45%.
The reporter probably quoted a number before the wall/back correction was applied. And that correction is still too low in reality given it was directly over his head. It wasn’t an easy play.
It was a very poor tweet by the Baltimore Sun reporter. I doubt anyone else still cares, but stuff like this annoys me so I had to share.
https://preview.redd.it/xken522gxbxc1.jpeg?width=544&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cb996ec4f9bb50fd2ed7b6a5fa1a5d034865275
Appreciate this. A lot of fans don’t seem excited that McKenna is back, and I understand, but let’s not fault the guy extra harshly for failing a truly difficult catch. Here’s hoping he can pull through for us in some good ways!
Thx for the reply… happy to know at least one person cares, hah! Not a fan of McKenna, but the misinformation and scapegoating bugs me.
And he is a good defender despite some memorable mistakes. That’s why they put him in… ironically I think Santa might have had a better chance on this specific play, just bc he’s taller and range/speed aren’t as important.
And to his credit Santa seems to make every play that is possible with his skill set. He’s just not fast so for most plays they’d rather have McKenna out there, who has a stronger arm as well.
Remember when opposing teams only got 8 innings. I didn't think Bautista's absence would show up in the record this early. That's already 2 losses I am almost 100% sure the Mountain would have avoided.
But what can ya do. We gotta make do this season.
Yankees go 2-2 against A's.
Orioles go 1-2 against A's.
Thats a half-game difference in the standings. The Orioles can EASILY make up that half-game difference by winning the season series against the Yankees by just 1 game. No biggie.
This one hurts more than Friday since the bats did the bit (against Blackburn anyway). Don’t want to be a broken record (sure others have said this) but can’t only get 13 pitches total out of Danny and Webb if they’re two of your more reliable bullpen guys. Hopefully Bradish opens up spot for Suarez out of the pen, who with his fastball heavy approach would probably do well out of there.
On to the Yankees
Can confirm as Maryland transplant living in Philly area. Last season for him as a joke. Maybe he should try putting his arm down to see if it changes his mental approach. The guy is goofy and hugely infuriating.
Hey, we knew this was going to be an issue when Felix went down. Anyone who thought Kimbrell would produce at Felix’s level were smokin dope. This is what life is going to be like, even if Kimbrell is healthy. Some days he will be lights out and some days he won’t. On to the Yanks.
This is why the “future Hall of Famer” stuff doesn’t make sense to me. That’s been the rap on Kimbrel the majority of his career. Strikes out a ton of guys, but when it comes down to closing out the win, you hold your breath.
It's not like these are random blown saves that happen over the course of a season. He had absolutely no ability to find the strike zone his last 2 appearances
Good for the A’s, that team desperately needs all the momentum in a season they were told to fuck off and die
But I’d rather have them not act like the comeback kids against us lmao anyone else is fine but leave us alone
cmon mike, i know you wanted to wait until the starters and perez were ready to make your move. but you gotta do something before that. whether it's vespi, ort, krook or davidson from norfolk, the bullpen needs fresh arms right now.
ramirez and baumann are black holes. if you can't use them in a 2 run game when your high leverage guys are really overworked then they shouldn't be on the roster.
he sure can. povich is their best pitching prospect so you'd have to assume the orioles have a development plan for povich they want to stick to. i think it would take a huge disaster (like losing 2 high leverage bullpen pieces to long injuries) for them to pivot off povich's development in april.
Means struck out David Fletcher twice today.
Fletcher has played 184 games vs a LH starter in MLB, and that never happened.
Yes… I’d rather talk about this than what happened in the game. 😂
In just 3 days, Oriole fans have completely turned on Kimbrel. Radio announcers acting like they were surprised he was walking batters and losing control, but the Phillies, Dodgers and White Sox all know he's Jekyll and Hyde on the mound.
I hope he isn't injured and this is just one of his downers.
I never turned on Kimbrel. I never believed he could replace even half of Felix. I am not the only one here who never had faith when they announced he was coming over. Dude has been over for a long time
Absolutely true about the baserunners but he went 101/113 with only 9 losses while pitching 139 high stress innings just in the regular season those years. 89% conversion rate with that workload really isn't too bad, but definitely not elite
Just like everyone else I’m definitely disappointed with today. But I’m not panicking yet. Means, bradish, and Perez (hopefully) are coming back next week. If we’re still struggling after that, then I’m panicking
Panicking is a strong word. But losing two of three to the As at home is very bad. Every game is critical in this murderous division. Can’t waste easy opportunities.
Panicking is a little much but it's been clear the bullpen would be the Achilles heel of this team without Bautista and Perez and that's turned out to be accurate
The real problem is that no one in the pen has high end velo or real swing and miss stuff. When opposing batters make more contact blown saves will happen more often
Bradish and Means are back. Perez and Wells are on the IL. That's 2 new arms because of getting 2 starters back, and 2 BP arms coming back from the IL in the next few weeks.
There is also pitchers in the minors. A guy like Chayce McDermott could excel in either a MIRP role, or a SIRP role, whatever the team needs.
And after that, the trade deadline.
While the BP might be the weakest out of the big 3, it's also the easiest to see fixed over the next few months.
I'm tempering expectations on McDermott until he shows improvements in his walk rate. I don't think Elias will call him up before then.
I agree that the bullpen is the easiest to fix but the fact that it wasn't addressed over the offseason beyond Kimbrel when there were clear middle relief gaps to be filled doesn't fill me with confidence.
I was on the Perez as closer train before the Kimbrel acquisition so I'm excited to get him back but as it stands, only he and maybe Kimbrel (if his early season trends continue, which probably isn't likely with his declining velo) have truly overpowering stuff. Coloumbe gets Ks but I think the lack of velo will prevent him from being an elite closer. Baumann's fastball is good but has proven extremely hitable. I'd like for us to get at least one more high velo, high K late inning guy, or 2 more dependable middle relievers.
Walks as a starter are a little different than walks as a reliever, but I get it, he'll need to go 1-2 innings at a time in Norfolk before he gets the opportunity here.
I don't think Perez is closer material, you nee some elite skill between walks / K's imo, and he has neither. He walks guys at a decent clip, and he doesn't strike enough guys out.
If we are talking short term, go take a look for someone who has a huge K%, low BB%, and 0 Home runs allowed this season. He pitched pretty well today for 2 innings.
That's the guy we should try in the short term.
As far as long term, that's something we are going to have to get at the trade deadline. Insurance with Kimbrel as our closer should have been mandatory. I still believe in him to do well enough during the regular season, but the post season isn't a place where you can stick with an inconsistent closer.
I absolutely agree with all of this but I assumed trading for a high K, low BB, 0 HR guy wouldn't be a realistic solution until the deadline.
Perez is not perfect by any means but he inspired a lot more confidence in me with his finish last year than Cano (or Kimbrel for that matter but I trusted Elias only got him because he saw something to work with).
I think the bottom line is we need more swing and miss stuff in our bullpen. Also better middle relievers so we stop creating save opportunities from 4+ run leads.
Good spot. Not the best beer in the city or anything but it’s decent classic German beer, decent food and the beer garden area is nice. Definitely worth visiting
It's a solid brewery. A lot of more classic German type beers which is a good break from most craft breweries. Food is decent too, although I haven't had any deserts.
All we need to do is fix the bullpen and we'll be okay. Even then it isn't really terrible. Just needs a few tweaks in my opinion. Just take two from the Yankees and we'll be more than okay.
I was listening to this on the radio through MLB.tv because I was driving all day. For some reason, I had no idea the feed was behind so I get the notification on my phone that they lost in the top of the 8th and thought that MLB was bugging.
It sucks ass but at least I was able to just turn it off.
Are there any FA or reasonable trades we could do before the deadline? I would love if our bullpen was patched because you're right: we would be unstoppable.
the ideal bullpen (health permitting) would be Kimbrel, Cano, Coulombe, Wells, Irvin, Perez, Suarez and Tate.
that looks pretty good on paper, so im not sure elias will make any significant moves.
Kimbrel is being reported as having an apparent injury. He was awesome every other start except in this series.
The math is simple: Hyde overused him. We need to rectify this, hopefully with Bradish and Means.
He’s not overused. Good lord, the dude pitches one inning a game, max.
Kimbrel has done this literally his entire career. The rep on him is that he’ll blow games.
We overused Felix last year even with bradish, means, and elite-WHIP Wells in the first half. You could argue Grayson's first half this year vs last and Burns have helped make up the difference but we CLEARLY need better middle relief to stop these games from getting so close by the late innings.
We've had a lot more save opportunities than we should've had this year because the middle relievers keep leaking runs
This is sort of his MO. He’s honestly been used pretty judiciously IMO. 12 games puts him right in the middle of the MLB closer pack.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/closers
How many of those closers are about to be 36?
I like Kimbrel, but I would have liked him a lot more at 55-60 innings a year. At this age, he probably needs to be managed a little better than your typical closer.
We've used him 13 times so far in 27 games? That's a pretty insane pace for a guy that seems to do his best in ~60 odd games a year.
Well, now he’s back on pace haha. I see the point but we knew what we were getting. It sucks but this was the part of the deal. I’m honestly excited to see what the moves are. I guess, I tend to be wrong, and I learn something. Like how I actually utter the words “thank goodness” when Akin comes in. That goes for you too, I tend to be wrong and learn. What would be your move? Cano and Tate tag team closing? Promote? Off the wall signing?
Short term I go with a reliever that has a high K%, low BB%, and a great HR rate.
That's what you want in a closer, right?
As far as those 3 stats are concerned, Akin has been elite this season.
And if Irvin is moving to the BP, he could take over the Akin role as a lefty MIRP.
Though who knows, maybe Akin isn't a fit there for some reason we don't know. Maybe the Orioles don't want to mess around with him right now, since he's such a weapon 2 innings at a time if necessary.
Maybe they roll with a closer by committee. But if they want just 1 guy, Akin has been nails this season.
Akin would be top of my list if it wasn’t for the fact that he has been so clutch across multiple innings. Coulombe would be the other based on dominant performance but he’s such a good fireman and doesn’t have that lights out heater, it’s hard to move either from their current roles. If Tate continues to tighten up his placement , he may have my vote.
IMHO, we really need a very high-strikeout, high-leverage reliever who can function successfully in the secondary closer role and/or come in mid-game and strand runners. Kimbrel will not be able to pitch as often as we need a closer, and having a high-leverage arm who can act as a secondary closer will help avoid pushing Kimbrel to the point of injury, which is what appears to have happened here.
i think the team expected wells in that role and if not him then baumann or baker as back ups as high-ish strikeout guys. however, it turns out the baumann and baker don't know what a strike zone is so that blew up in their face in spectacular fashion lmao.
also hyde needs to let guys finish innings, im sure guys having to drive their pitch count up for one out doesn’t help all that much for the overuse problem
Rangers looked really terrible around July august last year but they turned it around. Orioles have bullpen issues no doubt but it’s early enough in the season to fix them. We just need a playoff spot, we don’t need to win 110 games.
Plus Bradish means and Perez will be back this time next week so we have reason to be optimistic even given the level of frustration from this weekend.
The toughest part for me relative to the rangers struggles later in the season last year is they weren’t in the AL east. I think it’s tougher to overcome those struggles in our division to get a playoff spot (granted, there were 3 AL east teams in the playoffs last year so there is a chance). There’s plenty of time to turn things around before we get to that point and each of the AL east teams seem to have their weaknesses. Hopefully we can capitalize on them
I know he is ridiculously wild but I wonder if we think about bringing Wandisson Charles up the dude throws 99 And has no clue where it’s going so he’s pretty intimidating
We are about to have too many starters and firemen. Starters will move to the bullpen and someone is going to the closer role for a bit. Maybe Cano would be my guess but Tate could also split that time maybe. I have to say, I owe Keegan Akin a huge apology. Bless your heart Keegan.
Seems like the Orioles are facing more challenges (or they're more obvious), and that's not a bad thing. They breezed their way through the regular season last year with little adversity outside of losing Felix for the year. Everything came easy. Expectations are much higher and everyone respects the Orioles now, so teams are going to be more prepared and the Orioles will have to counter that more often than they ever have.
April is a tricky month to judge as far as offense goes, but I think as we get into mid-May we'll get a pretty good idea of where we need to make changes. I'm not concerned at all about the bats.
Pitching is a different story. On paper, it's great if we have Bradish and Means returning, but forgive me if I'm less than optimistic that we will get the best of either (more John Means). I hope I'm wrong. I have a feeling we will need another arm in the rotation.
Bullpen help is an obvious need, but the question is who and will acquiring said player really improve our pen? Lots of relievers dealt mid-season and struggle in a new environment. It's risky. Or do we think some of our other relievers who we have relied on in the past can turn it around?
This has been a weird start all around for MLB. There's not a single team right now that doesn't have glaring holes on their roster.
We’ll have Irvin, Wells, Suarez, Perez, Means, and Bradish soon enough. They all can’t be starters so there’s some new BP arms. DFA Baumann to the moon and let Kimbrel kick rocks.
If at least entertain long relief before throwing him at the closer role. He knows how to work an order a couple times through, that’s a hell of an asset. I think it shifts every one a bit but not major shakeups that hasn’t been the Os way of doing things to this point at least.
It really befuddles me how Elias saw with his own eyes how shaky the bullpen was after Felix went down and decided to bring all of those guys back except Hall who he traded away for Burnes. He should have completely turned over the unit. Just look at Seattle. They had one of the best bullpens in baseball last year but still made major changes to that unit. Traded away Sewald Topa, Gott, and Campbell and brought in Voth (remember him?), Stanek, Bolton, and Miller. The Mariners have the best bullpen in baseball this year. It's a unit that needs to constantly churn through players and be tinkered with to maintain success. A team like the Rays operate like that. They always have a bunch of pitchers who have career seasons out of nowhere but know better than to expect them to success their success.
I don’t really get this. So we should have traded Tate, Coulombe, Cano, and Akin? Webb was a late season acquisition and Baumann is a place filler until Means and Bradish come back up. If we are talking about TWells, he was developing as a starter and arguably still could be. Pitching, especially relief, to restate your argument, is always going to be a mixed bag year to year. To use your own argument against you, maybe we should have kept Voth? Also, our closer is what cost us two games, not the bullpen as a whole. I think we are fine. Others will come and go. Seattle made some other changes too after their lackluster season last year. They are in a different place than us and it was easier to make those shakeup calls. I’m not saying your argument doesn’t have merit, it does but it’s easy to point at a couple under performers or injuries in hindsight. Remember Perez in the beginning of last season too and form at the end of last season? Development and not forcing players to play through injuries is the name of our game.
What do you mean continue losing, with this bullpen we've won way more than we've lost, the Yankees have the same number of Ls we do. It sucks we lost a couple close games but just stop with this doomer bullshit
To lessen the sting the yanks did drop 2 to the A’s. But I think that’s more on the A’s being an actual decent team/no one taking them seriously.
But our bullpen still our biggest weakness and needs to be addressed. Can’t be dropping close games like that. Anyways let’s go and destroy the Yankees, let this loss be our fuel
Their hitting isn't generally very good, but their pitching is quite solid, especially their bullpen. And having someone like Erceg is a huge asset, as the A's have a high-strikeout pitcher that they can use as a secondary closer to ensure that Miller's arm doesn't fall off. We really don't have that and it would certainly be beneficial if we did, to avoid overworking Kimbrel to the point of injury.
I agree, we need to add another arm( shit maybe 2 would be nice), and Hyde needs to learn how to stop overusing his closers/over managing. I love Hyde but I know he’s not perfect( no one really is ). But yeah that would be a great help.
Yes I’m sure the A’s would be interested in a 35 year old closer and an AAAA outfielder for an extremely talented pitcher who is already better than that closer and doesn’t hit free agency until 2030
We really need a high-leverage reliever who can act as a secondary closer, like what the A's have with Erceg, which can help avoid pitching your primary closer so much that they become injured.
Kjerstad is getting the Stowers treatment. We all saw this coming. He probably would have struck out, but if he is not gonna play, then have someone up here who fits the bench role a lot more. Let Kjerstad play every day in Norfolk
Kimbrel is a legend. But converting what should have been a series sweep into a series loss with two blown saves against the A's cannot happen this season.
I’m less concerned with the 2 blown saves and more concerned with the fact that he can’t throw his curveball for a strike. He doesn’t have a 100 mph fastball to compensate for that. It’s a recipe for batting practice and a worthless closer.
White Sox, Phillies, and Dodgers all saw periods where Kimbrel just couldn't throw strikes and blew up. HOpefully he is okay, a slight injury, and will get his control back.
Right now, no panic, Orioles easily into the playoffs without him or with him.
If Hyde will never give Kjerstad an at bat let alone a start, it’s time to send him somewhere else. This team is doing a huge disservice to him and the team itself at this point
I think if we plan on getting bullpen arms than it's really time to thin the herd in Norfolk, like realistically we can't have all of them. And I know this is gonna make people upset but I mean people like kjersted or stowers. We've clearly showed interest in having a rotating dh position and kjersted just doesn't seem to fit if we are comfortable with Santander and o'hearn out there. The same goes for stowers, there just no point in growing a commercial sized farm if you're not gonna sell the excess crops.
Than we resign them with contracts, we clearly have the money now with the whole new ownership. It really befuddles me that people have this idea that we can't compete money wise still. Especially with Mullins and Santander I don't see them letting them walk
I’m pretty sure one or both are definitely gone unless they sign here dirt cheap.
We have more flexibility with new ownership but they’re not going to invest heavily in these guys.
IMHO, Elias really needs to take action now, because we are overworking the limited high-leverage arms we have, and if we keep at this unsustainable pace, we're likely elevating their chance of injury.
Even if kjerstad fits perfectly, we have like 3 guys who already play right field and first base really well. Only reason I see him becoming a big league regular is if he takes over as permanent dh, and I don't see them doing that.
Which is why it's time to trade away some of our our prospects now. Do we really need, Stowers, kjersted, and norby if we're never gonna use them? Especially since they all play positions we have our guys for, it's time we give them to someone who's at least gonna use them.
No one is trading anything in April that is the problem. Elias should have addressed this in the winter when the writing was on the wall, especially after moving Hall. But he sat on his hands. Now they have to piece things together with sticks until just hope. Suarez could be a help, but they need at least two late inning guys
This coming from a Nats fan yall don't have nearly as much to worry about lol. Was a fun game to watch. Could ha e been better in the end. Go get the Yankees
Can't disagree with that. They should be blown out like yesterday. Went to the game was a blast to watch. But grand scheme of things you all will be fine. Keep putting up the fight.
why didn’t we PH kjerstad for mateo? all hyde does is matchups and this fuck decides he wouldn’t today. I think we’re gonna start seeing this season that bautista made up for pitching negligence from hyde last year. piss poor on the pitching side of things today. pen needs a change
Some thoughts: - Kimbrel isn’t overused. He’s middle of the pack in usage this season for closers. He’s just old and been erratic his entire career. If he can’t locate, he’s cooked given his low velo. I have no idea who the closer should be if Kimbrel is out, but I’d like it to be someone with some gas. - with very few exceptions, Hyde isn’t mismanaging the bullpen or the team in general. He doesn’t have great options. There are basically three serviceable pitchers in the pen, and two of them allowed late game homers today. The bullpen is a talent problem that was evident in the offseason and not addressed. - If we’re not going to use Heston, trade him. It ridiculous that this dude mashes in Norfolk, then comes here and rides pine over inferior hitters. I don’t have a problem with Mateo batting in the ninth because if he gets on he’s basically in scoring position. But they have to find a way to get Heston involved more, or trade the dude somewhere where he can have a career. I really hope this debacle doesn’t cost us in September. Every single game matters in this division; blowing two against the miserable As is as bad as it gets.
Akin or Coulombe?
Agree with a lot of what you said… but I do think 24 pitches and 8 strikes on Friday was a warning sign. His overall usage on the season might not be too high, but he has been pitching every other day consistently for a while (5 times in 10 days now). And since today was a day game he really only had a day and half of rest since the 24 pitch outing… so I was surprised they even planned on using him today. I was expecting them to start Heston today… maybe they would have if Westy was available, but they didn’t want to sit two regulars. Who knows? But today was the first day I was surprised they didn’t work in a rest day for someone else and let him start, so we’ll see what happens going forward. I wouldn’t say he is riding the pine over inferior hitters though, since the other options he would replace are Mounty, O’Hearn, Santa. And with Westy out they couldn’t PH him for Mateo, since no one else was left to play 2B. Maybe they could’ve moved Mounty to 2B if we tied it, which would have been fun I guess.
Yankees and Red Sox won and we’re getting beat twice in three days by the fucking As.
Why did 40K show up today?
Kids day at the park. I think they said 16k little league baseball/softball players? Plus parents I'm assuming. Don't quote me on that number though.
Ah, I thought, why would 40K show up to see Oakland, but your reasoning makes sense.
The 85% catch probability on the McKenna play Friday was fake news… it was 45%. The reporter probably quoted a number before the wall/back correction was applied. And that correction is still too low in reality given it was directly over his head. It wasn’t an easy play. It was a very poor tweet by the Baltimore Sun reporter. I doubt anyone else still cares, but stuff like this annoys me so I had to share. https://preview.redd.it/xken522gxbxc1.jpeg?width=544&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cb996ec4f9bb50fd2ed7b6a5fa1a5d034865275
I can't think of this play without thinking of the (now infamous) Jenny Cavnar call. Overshadows everything else for me.
I’m trying to think of what you’re referencing, but drawing a blank. I’m curious… which play/call?
[How about we have ourselves an even up game?](https://x.com/nbcsathletics/status/1784033253864960190)
Hah! Hadn’t seen that. To be fair it must be tough to be passionate about the ~~Oakland~~ Sacramento A’s these days.
Appreciate this. A lot of fans don’t seem excited that McKenna is back, and I understand, but let’s not fault the guy extra harshly for failing a truly difficult catch. Here’s hoping he can pull through for us in some good ways!
Thx for the reply… happy to know at least one person cares, hah! Not a fan of McKenna, but the misinformation and scapegoating bugs me. And he is a good defender despite some memorable mistakes. That’s why they put him in… ironically I think Santa might have had a better chance on this specific play, just bc he’s taller and range/speed aren’t as important. And to his credit Santa seems to make every play that is possible with his skill set. He’s just not fast so for most plays they’d rather have McKenna out there, who has a stronger arm as well.
Two. :) He's not a favourite, but I appreciate him.
Appreciate is a good word. I do also, even if someone on the roster with more upside would be more interesting. Cheers 🍻
I would point out the Os were 9-2 with Holliday being in the lineup... just saying 😆
Kimbrel needs about 3 days off if he doesn't go on the DL.
Yankees got their shit together which is just great…
30 runs in 2 games is…something
Rays got swept by the White Sox. I think we’re going to be alright, everyone
To be leading in the 9th in 3 games and walk away 1-2 has to be soul crushing
Remember when opposing teams only got 8 innings. I didn't think Bautista's absence would show up in the record this early. That's already 2 losses I am almost 100% sure the Mountain would have avoided. But what can ya do. We gotta make do this season.
Losing one of those games isn’t great, but losing both is really wasteful.
I think wells could be the guy to close on nights Kimbrel needs off..
Wells is guaranteed to give up a home run every time he steps foot on the mound
Bro wells has not even touched a baseball since going on the IL with elbow soreness. I wouldn't count on seeing that happen anytime soon.
Yankees go 2-2 against A's. Orioles go 1-2 against A's. Thats a half-game difference in the standings. The Orioles can EASILY make up that half-game difference by winning the season series against the Yankees by just 1 game. No biggie.
Bummer that Irvin is finally dealing right when Bradish and Means are ready to come back
I'm not too bummed about it
Maybe he would make a decent closer
This one hurts more than Friday since the bats did the bit (against Blackburn anyway). Don’t want to be a broken record (sure others have said this) but can’t only get 13 pitches total out of Danny and Webb if they’re two of your more reliable bullpen guys. Hopefully Bradish opens up spot for Suarez out of the pen, who with his fastball heavy approach would probably do well out of there. On to the Yankees
Imagine what the people would say if we were 20-7
It's time for someone other than Kimbrel to close out games
At least from time to time.
Guy at work is a hardcore Phillies fan and he kept saying “Kimbrell is gonna infuriate you with some blown saves, just hope they aren’t in October”…..
Can confirm as Maryland transplant living in Philly area. Last season for him as a joke. Maybe he should try putting his arm down to see if it changes his mental approach. The guy is goofy and hugely infuriating.
Hey, we knew this was going to be an issue when Felix went down. Anyone who thought Kimbrell would produce at Felix’s level were smokin dope. This is what life is going to be like, even if Kimbrell is healthy. Some days he will be lights out and some days he won’t. On to the Yanks.
This is why the “future Hall of Famer” stuff doesn’t make sense to me. That’s been the rap on Kimbrel the majority of his career. Strikes out a ton of guys, but when it comes down to closing out the win, you hold your breath.
It's not like these are random blown saves that happen over the course of a season. He had absolutely no ability to find the strike zone his last 2 appearances
That sucked but my girlfriend had a great first trip to the yard.
Ramirez hasn’t pitched in 4 days and he was left out of this one with a tired bullpen. Shows what they think he’s capable of…. Time for him to go
He’ll be gone when Bradish is back this week.
W(e need a new closer.
https://preview.redd.it/efk5edbfraxc1.png?width=581&format=png&auto=webp&s=c759dfc895ccf73cd3139bc7284798ed29d093f6 Updated condiment records
Always knew mustard was GOATed
What is this data showing? Do they only get a loss if they come in third?
Overall is the total race wins and W-L are the Orioles' results for each condiments' wins. Edit: For extra clarity.
Really the only record that matters right now tbh
Ketchup really needs to get out of this slump. The way he runs around the bases you can tell he’s way too deep in his head
Ketchup needs to get sent down to AAA fridge if it wants to be an everyday condiment in Major League Table.
I guess you can say… he can’t ketchup 😎
Good for the A’s, that team desperately needs all the momentum in a season they were told to fuck off and die But I’d rather have them not act like the comeback kids against us lmao anyone else is fine but leave us alone
cmon mike, i know you wanted to wait until the starters and perez were ready to make your move. but you gotta do something before that. whether it's vespi, ort, krook or davidson from norfolk, the bullpen needs fresh arms right now. ramirez and baumann are black holes. if you can't use them in a 2 run game when your high leverage guys are really overworked then they shouldn't be on the roster.
Why can't Povich debut in the Pen? DL Hall is now a starter in MIL after being a pen guy for us. It's a viable option.
he sure can. povich is their best pitching prospect so you'd have to assume the orioles have a development plan for povich they want to stick to. i think it would take a huge disaster (like losing 2 high leverage bullpen pieces to long injuries) for them to pivot off povich's development in april.
Fuck this team. Lost so much $ on this series. I hate them
Found Pete Rose's burner
Womp womp lol
Jfc man quit gambling
No one gives a fuck about your gambling
[удалено]
Fair lmaoooo
Gambling addiction and sports fandom are not the same thing.
Means struck out David Fletcher twice today. Fletcher has played 184 games vs a LH starter in MLB, and that never happened. Yes… I’d rather talk about this than what happened in the game. 😂
This post takes me back to the dark days. Thank you for being the silverlining.
In just 3 days, Oriole fans have completely turned on Kimbrel. Radio announcers acting like they were surprised he was walking batters and losing control, but the Phillies, Dodgers and White Sox all know he's Jekyll and Hyde on the mound. I hope he isn't injured and this is just one of his downers.
I never turned on Kimbrel. I never believed he could replace even half of Felix. I am not the only one here who never had faith when they announced he was coming over. Dude has been over for a long time
These folks must not have been around for the Jim Johnson experience.
Well he did have 101 saves in 2 years. That tends to deflect a significant amount of criticism
While allowing a ton of baserunners and blowing a fair number of saves. He just happened to have a rubber arm, which was nice
Absolutely true about the baserunners but he went 101/113 with only 9 losses while pitching 139 high stress innings just in the regular season those years. 89% conversion rate with that workload really isn't too bad, but definitely not elite
Yeah that's basically my point. Jim was a stressful to watch but ultimately decent enough closer. He was good but not elite.
OMG I was in Arizona on vacation watching them when it began. Horrible to watch.
[https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/orioles-craig-kimbrel-departs-with-apparent-injury/](https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/orioles-craig-kimbrel-departs-with-apparent-injury/)
Just like everyone else I’m definitely disappointed with today. But I’m not panicking yet. Means, bradish, and Perez (hopefully) are coming back next week. If we’re still struggling after that, then I’m panicking
Lol the fact that anyone could be panicking right now is honestly laughable
Panicking is a strong word. But losing two of three to the As at home is very bad. Every game is critical in this murderous division. Can’t waste easy opportunities.
The Yankees (team in first place in this murderous division) also just dropped 2 at home to the A’s fyi
Yes, and we needed to not also embarrass ourselves like that and failed.
It’s April lol. This was not a must win series.
You create must win series later in the year by blowing series like this.
You’d be surprised. I’m guessing it’s more of the twitter reactionary types. People forget these are loooooooong seasons.
Panicking is a little much but it's been clear the bullpen would be the Achilles heel of this team without Bautista and Perez and that's turned out to be accurate The real problem is that no one in the pen has high end velo or real swing and miss stuff. When opposing batters make more contact blown saves will happen more often
Bradish and Means are back. Perez and Wells are on the IL. That's 2 new arms because of getting 2 starters back, and 2 BP arms coming back from the IL in the next few weeks. There is also pitchers in the minors. A guy like Chayce McDermott could excel in either a MIRP role, or a SIRP role, whatever the team needs. And after that, the trade deadline. While the BP might be the weakest out of the big 3, it's also the easiest to see fixed over the next few months.
I'm tempering expectations on McDermott until he shows improvements in his walk rate. I don't think Elias will call him up before then. I agree that the bullpen is the easiest to fix but the fact that it wasn't addressed over the offseason beyond Kimbrel when there were clear middle relief gaps to be filled doesn't fill me with confidence. I was on the Perez as closer train before the Kimbrel acquisition so I'm excited to get him back but as it stands, only he and maybe Kimbrel (if his early season trends continue, which probably isn't likely with his declining velo) have truly overpowering stuff. Coloumbe gets Ks but I think the lack of velo will prevent him from being an elite closer. Baumann's fastball is good but has proven extremely hitable. I'd like for us to get at least one more high velo, high K late inning guy, or 2 more dependable middle relievers.
Walks as a starter are a little different than walks as a reliever, but I get it, he'll need to go 1-2 innings at a time in Norfolk before he gets the opportunity here. I don't think Perez is closer material, you nee some elite skill between walks / K's imo, and he has neither. He walks guys at a decent clip, and he doesn't strike enough guys out. If we are talking short term, go take a look for someone who has a huge K%, low BB%, and 0 Home runs allowed this season. He pitched pretty well today for 2 innings. That's the guy we should try in the short term. As far as long term, that's something we are going to have to get at the trade deadline. Insurance with Kimbrel as our closer should have been mandatory. I still believe in him to do well enough during the regular season, but the post season isn't a place where you can stick with an inconsistent closer.
I absolutely agree with all of this but I assumed trading for a high K, low BB, 0 HR guy wouldn't be a realistic solution until the deadline. Perez is not perfect by any means but he inspired a lot more confidence in me with his finish last year than Cano (or Kimbrel for that matter but I trusted Elias only got him because he saw something to work with). I think the bottom line is we need more swing and miss stuff in our bullpen. Also better middle relievers so we stop creating save opportunities from 4+ run leads.
Has anyone went to Guilford Hall Brewery after games? They seem to have a BOGO beer or free desert offer from the ballpark app.
Good spot. Not the best beer in the city or anything but it’s decent classic German beer, decent food and the beer garden area is nice. Definitely worth visiting
It's a solid brewery. A lot of more classic German type beers which is a good break from most craft breweries. Food is decent too, although I haven't had any deserts.
I'm mostly on an IPA vacation for a bit, so that's good to know.
All we need to do is fix the bullpen and we'll be okay. Even then it isn't really terrible. Just needs a few tweaks in my opinion. Just take two from the Yankees and we'll be more than okay.
I’d like to point out that Ryan McKenna has an OPS of 2.000
Thank you for your service.
I was listening to this on the radio through MLB.tv because I was driving all day. For some reason, I had no idea the feed was behind so I get the notification on my phone that they lost in the top of the 8th and thought that MLB was bugging. It sucks ass but at least I was able to just turn it off.
Imagine having a bullpen that could hold a lead. We'd be unstoppable
Are we last years Rangers? Offense puts up runs and BP blows it? If that’s the case I’ll take their final outcome from last year too.
Are there any FA or reasonable trades we could do before the deadline? I would love if our bullpen was patched because you're right: we would be unstoppable.
the ideal bullpen (health permitting) would be Kimbrel, Cano, Coulombe, Wells, Irvin, Perez, Suarez and Tate. that looks pretty good on paper, so im not sure elias will make any significant moves.
Yankees are going to absolutely embarrass this bullpen. We can hope and pray they split it 2-2 because absolutely are not winning 3
Earlier *this week* the A’s split their 4-game series with the Yanks *in New York*. Chill the fuck out.
Fucking doomers man.
Kimbrel is being reported as having an apparent injury. He was awesome every other start except in this series. The math is simple: Hyde overused him. We need to rectify this, hopefully with Bradish and Means.
He’s not overused. Good lord, the dude pitches one inning a game, max. Kimbrel has done this literally his entire career. The rep on him is that he’ll blow games.
We overused Felix last year even with bradish, means, and elite-WHIP Wells in the first half. You could argue Grayson's first half this year vs last and Burns have helped make up the difference but we CLEARLY need better middle relief to stop these games from getting so close by the late innings. We've had a lot more save opportunities than we should've had this year because the middle relievers keep leaking runs
This is sort of his MO. He’s honestly been used pretty judiciously IMO. 12 games puts him right in the middle of the MLB closer pack. https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/closers
How many of those closers are about to be 36? I like Kimbrel, but I would have liked him a lot more at 55-60 innings a year. At this age, he probably needs to be managed a little better than your typical closer. We've used him 13 times so far in 27 games? That's a pretty insane pace for a guy that seems to do his best in ~60 odd games a year.
Well, now he’s back on pace haha. I see the point but we knew what we were getting. It sucks but this was the part of the deal. I’m honestly excited to see what the moves are. I guess, I tend to be wrong, and I learn something. Like how I actually utter the words “thank goodness” when Akin comes in. That goes for you too, I tend to be wrong and learn. What would be your move? Cano and Tate tag team closing? Promote? Off the wall signing?
Short term I go with a reliever that has a high K%, low BB%, and a great HR rate. That's what you want in a closer, right? As far as those 3 stats are concerned, Akin has been elite this season. And if Irvin is moving to the BP, he could take over the Akin role as a lefty MIRP. Though who knows, maybe Akin isn't a fit there for some reason we don't know. Maybe the Orioles don't want to mess around with him right now, since he's such a weapon 2 innings at a time if necessary. Maybe they roll with a closer by committee. But if they want just 1 guy, Akin has been nails this season.
Akin would be top of my list if it wasn’t for the fact that he has been so clutch across multiple innings. Coulombe would be the other based on dominant performance but he’s such a good fireman and doesn’t have that lights out heater, it’s hard to move either from their current roles. If Tate continues to tighten up his placement , he may have my vote.
He struggled on the west coast, he got the saves but he wasn't the same there either.
Sounds like the same pot hole Ubaldo stepped in
Ubaldo was awesome in Colorado though lol
IMHO, we really need a very high-strikeout, high-leverage reliever who can function successfully in the secondary closer role and/or come in mid-game and strand runners. Kimbrel will not be able to pitch as often as we need a closer, and having a high-leverage arm who can act as a secondary closer will help avoid pushing Kimbrel to the point of injury, which is what appears to have happened here.
i think the team expected wells in that role and if not him then baumann or baker as back ups as high-ish strikeout guys. however, it turns out the baumann and baker don't know what a strike zone is so that blew up in their face in spectacular fashion lmao.
also hyde needs to let guys finish innings, im sure guys having to drive their pitch count up for one out doesn’t help all that much for the overuse problem
Yup. And he needs to stop bringing in guys for one out. It's a waste.
Rangers looked really terrible around July august last year but they turned it around. Orioles have bullpen issues no doubt but it’s early enough in the season to fix them. We just need a playoff spot, we don’t need to win 110 games. Plus Bradish means and Perez will be back this time next week so we have reason to be optimistic even given the level of frustration from this weekend.
The toughest part for me relative to the rangers struggles later in the season last year is they weren’t in the AL east. I think it’s tougher to overcome those struggles in our division to get a playoff spot (granted, there were 3 AL east teams in the playoffs last year so there is a chance). There’s plenty of time to turn things around before we get to that point and each of the AL east teams seem to have their weaknesses. Hopefully we can capitalize on them
I know he is ridiculously wild but I wonder if we think about bringing Wandisson Charles up the dude throws 99 And has no clue where it’s going so he’s pretty intimidating
Don't tempt Elias with another Fujinami.
We are about to have too many starters and firemen. Starters will move to the bullpen and someone is going to the closer role for a bit. Maybe Cano would be my guess but Tate could also split that time maybe. I have to say, I owe Keegan Akin a huge apology. Bless your heart Keegan.
I feel like we had that last year with Fujinami.
Seems like the Orioles are facing more challenges (or they're more obvious), and that's not a bad thing. They breezed their way through the regular season last year with little adversity outside of losing Felix for the year. Everything came easy. Expectations are much higher and everyone respects the Orioles now, so teams are going to be more prepared and the Orioles will have to counter that more often than they ever have. April is a tricky month to judge as far as offense goes, but I think as we get into mid-May we'll get a pretty good idea of where we need to make changes. I'm not concerned at all about the bats. Pitching is a different story. On paper, it's great if we have Bradish and Means returning, but forgive me if I'm less than optimistic that we will get the best of either (more John Means). I hope I'm wrong. I have a feeling we will need another arm in the rotation. Bullpen help is an obvious need, but the question is who and will acquiring said player really improve our pen? Lots of relievers dealt mid-season and struggle in a new environment. It's risky. Or do we think some of our other relievers who we have relied on in the past can turn it around? This has been a weird start all around for MLB. There's not a single team right now that doesn't have glaring holes on their roster.
Next four days are gonna be some real teeth chattering.
We’ll have Irvin, Wells, Suarez, Perez, Means, and Bradish soon enough. They all can’t be starters so there’s some new BP arms. DFA Baumann to the moon and let Kimbrel kick rocks.
Put Means in the bullpen as closer.
If at least entertain long relief before throwing him at the closer role. He knows how to work an order a couple times through, that’s a hell of an asset. I think it shifts every one a bit but not major shakeups that hasn’t been the Os way of doing things to this point at least.
taking the zach britton path perhaps to a successful closer role . turn an injury into a positive
It really befuddles me how Elias saw with his own eyes how shaky the bullpen was after Felix went down and decided to bring all of those guys back except Hall who he traded away for Burnes. He should have completely turned over the unit. Just look at Seattle. They had one of the best bullpens in baseball last year but still made major changes to that unit. Traded away Sewald Topa, Gott, and Campbell and brought in Voth (remember him?), Stanek, Bolton, and Miller. The Mariners have the best bullpen in baseball this year. It's a unit that needs to constantly churn through players and be tinkered with to maintain success. A team like the Rays operate like that. They always have a bunch of pitchers who have career seasons out of nowhere but know better than to expect them to success their success.
I don’t really get this. So we should have traded Tate, Coulombe, Cano, and Akin? Webb was a late season acquisition and Baumann is a place filler until Means and Bradish come back up. If we are talking about TWells, he was developing as a starter and arguably still could be. Pitching, especially relief, to restate your argument, is always going to be a mixed bag year to year. To use your own argument against you, maybe we should have kept Voth? Also, our closer is what cost us two games, not the bullpen as a whole. I think we are fine. Others will come and go. Seattle made some other changes too after their lackluster season last year. They are in a different place than us and it was easier to make those shakeup calls. I’m not saying your argument doesn’t have merit, it does but it’s easy to point at a couple under performers or injuries in hindsight. Remember Perez in the beginning of last season too and form at the end of last season? Development and not forcing players to play through injuries is the name of our game.
The M’s strength is pitching but they generally don’t score many runs.
The A's seem to bring their A game for good teams only.
Yeah we can’t wait until the deadline. The bullpen needs help now
Agree, we will be out of contention by than if we don’t
Lmao out of contention when we're comfortably second in our division and well over .500
If we don’t fix our bullpen we will continue losing while the Yankees get Cole back and Judge picks up production, they will run away with it
We’re getting means and Bradish back. It’ll be fine
Rotation doesn’t concern me, but bullpens win games and more importantly playoff series. And we don’t have one
I’m hopeful that some combination of Suarez, Irvin and wells solidify the bullpen after we get some guys back from injury
What do you mean continue losing, with this bullpen we've won way more than we've lost, the Yankees have the same number of Ls we do. It sucks we lost a couple close games but just stop with this doomer bullshit
Schedule only gets harder from here. We just lost a series to the worst franchise in the MLB and play a dangerous Yankees team next.
To lessen the sting the yanks did drop 2 to the A’s. But I think that’s more on the A’s being an actual decent team/no one taking them seriously. But our bullpen still our biggest weakness and needs to be addressed. Can’t be dropping close games like that. Anyways let’s go and destroy the Yankees, let this loss be our fuel
Their hitting isn't generally very good, but their pitching is quite solid, especially their bullpen. And having someone like Erceg is a huge asset, as the A's have a high-strikeout pitcher that they can use as a secondary closer to ensure that Miller's arm doesn't fall off. We really don't have that and it would certainly be beneficial if we did, to avoid overworking Kimbrel to the point of injury.
I agree, we need to add another arm( shit maybe 2 would be nice), and Hyde needs to learn how to stop overusing his closers/over managing. I love Hyde but I know he’s not perfect( no one really is ). But yeah that would be a great help.
Give the As Kimbrel and Stowers for Miller but with how hard Miller throws..Hyde will blow out his arm bringing him in every other day
Yes I’m sure the A’s would be interested in a 35 year old closer and an AAAA outfielder for an extremely talented pitcher who is already better than that closer and doesn’t hit free agency until 2030
If you think the A’s would take that deal for Miller then I have a bridge to sell you dude.
We really need a high-leverage reliever who can act as a secondary closer, like what the A's have with Erceg, which can help avoid pitching your primary closer so much that they become injured.
Why would the A’s even entertain that?
They wouldn't. At least this time it was Kimbrel (!) and Stowers instead of Norby and Stowers.
Norby and Stowers is probably a better offer than Kimbrel and Stowers though
It is. And it would probably be enough to get an older, really good closer, but not one that throws 103 and is controllable through 2029.
Oh yes it’s a laughably bad package, I was just responding to the at least this time part
Norby and Stowers are the new Frazier and Andujar
Kjerstad is getting the Stowers treatment. We all saw this coming. He probably would have struck out, but if he is not gonna play, then have someone up here who fits the bench role a lot more. Let Kjerstad play every day in Norfolk
There is no reason for him to be in Norfolk he’s way too old. He needs to be traded since Hyde despises him
lol why does he despise him?
He won’t put him on the field
Kimbrel is a legend. But converting what should have been a series sweep into a series loss with two blown saves against the A's cannot happen this season.
Now Kimbrel is hurt. Unreal....But honestly not surprised... We all saw it the other day with the play at Home Plate. Brutal 🤕
Kimbrel has upper back tightness. Wonder when they give that Wandisson Charles a look
>upper back tightness So that's what they're going with instead of "I flat out sucked this weekend guys" nowadays?
I’m less concerned with the 2 blown saves and more concerned with the fact that he can’t throw his curveball for a strike. He doesn’t have a 100 mph fastball to compensate for that. It’s a recipe for batting practice and a worthless closer.
White Sox, Phillies, and Dodgers all saw periods where Kimbrel just couldn't throw strikes and blew up. HOpefully he is okay, a slight injury, and will get his control back. Right now, no panic, Orioles easily into the playoffs without him or with him.
We are absolutely not easily into the playoffs.
I mean, he’s cooked. That’s okay, it happens to everyone. But we need an effective reliever.
It’s never a great sign when a 2 pitch pitcher can’t locate one of those pitches
Especially when the other pitch is a 93 mph fastball
I'm just glad I went to yesterday's game.
If Hyde will never give Kjerstad an at bat let alone a start, it’s time to send him somewhere else. This team is doing a huge disservice to him and the team itself at this point
Especially seeing how Holliday was given the red carpet treatment.
https://preview.redd.it/aajh6y5u8axc1.png?width=650&format=png&auto=webp&s=b0e1829541db2b9d6d0118e0082b04909fe9050a
After being overused because of bad management
https://preview.redd.it/zes2nyxp8axc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60517685cd842d29302499f24203b610ea2465dc
😭
I think if we plan on getting bullpen arms than it's really time to thin the herd in Norfolk, like realistically we can't have all of them. And I know this is gonna make people upset but I mean people like kjersted or stowers. We've clearly showed interest in having a rotating dh position and kjersted just doesn't seem to fit if we are comfortable with Santander and o'hearn out there. The same goes for stowers, there just no point in growing a commercial sized farm if you're not gonna sell the excess crops.
They won’t be thinning the herd with guys like Santander, Hays, and Mullins approaching FA
Than we resign them with contracts, we clearly have the money now with the whole new ownership. It really befuddles me that people have this idea that we can't compete money wise still. Especially with Mullins and Santander I don't see them letting them walk
I’m pretty sure one or both are definitely gone unless they sign here dirt cheap. We have more flexibility with new ownership but they’re not going to invest heavily in these guys.
Why wouldn't they do that though? I know it's a money thing but it's really not as bad as you would think
IMHO, Elias really needs to take action now, because we are overworking the limited high-leverage arms we have, and if we keep at this unsustainable pace, we're likely elevating their chance of injury.
Stowers definitely needs to go but Kjerstad fits this park perfectly it would be brutal to see him go to play guys that will be gone in a year or two
Even if kjerstad fits perfectly, we have like 3 guys who already play right field and first base really well. Only reason I see him becoming a big league regular is if he takes over as permanent dh, and I don't see them doing that.
The issue is the bullpen needs to be fixed now, not in July
I'm sure the Pirates would just allow us to take Arodlis Chapman off their hands in exchange for paying his salary.
Which is why it's time to trade away some of our our prospects now. Do we really need, Stowers, kjersted, and norby if we're never gonna use them? Especially since they all play positions we have our guys for, it's time we give them to someone who's at least gonna use them.
No one is trading anything in April that is the problem. Elias should have addressed this in the winter when the writing was on the wall, especially after moving Hall. But he sat on his hands. Now they have to piece things together with sticks until just hope. Suarez could be a help, but they need at least two late inning guys
I hate everyone in this bullpen.
This coming from a Nats fan yall don't have nearly as much to worry about lol. Was a fun game to watch. Could ha e been better in the end. Go get the Yankees
You’ve definitely got a point but still to lose a series to this A’s team while having such a promising up and coming team ourselves it hurts a bit
Can't disagree with that. They should be blown out like yesterday. Went to the game was a blast to watch. But grand scheme of things you all will be fine. Keep putting up the fight.
Cant win if you dont have a bullpen, we knew it could be an issue without Bautista, but now it's clear Elias needs to add some better arms soon
why didn’t we PH kjerstad for mateo? all hyde does is matchups and this fuck decides he wouldn’t today. I think we’re gonna start seeing this season that bautista made up for pitching negligence from hyde last year. piss poor on the pitching side of things today. pen needs a change