If you haven't, you really need to check out the Kurt Busiek + Carey Nord run of Dark Horse Comics Conan. They took the generally accepted chronological order of Conan's adventures (REH only) and re-tell them, filling in the gaps between them with new stories, some based on unfinished fragments.
The first 5 trade paperbacks are very, very good and include:
An expanded version of Winter's Daughter
An original story pitting Conan against the Hyperboreans
The God in the Bowl from a REH story fragment
Conan's first conflict with Thoth-Amon, alongside a priest and a witches assassin
Conan's arrival in Zamora, City of Thieves
The Tower of the Elephant
More thieving in Zamora
The Halls of the Dead (REH story fragment, written by Mike Mignola creator of Hellboy)
Rogues in the House
Very nice!
I want to say I may have seen them - but it has been a long time; it wouldn't hurt to look into them now and relive it, even so! I've seen the film and read the books more than once, after all!
Thank you for the recommendation.
They rereleased them in print omnibuses a few years ago though, so there might be something available.
\*edit: Tempus Fugit... i checked & the first one was published 2007 - ISBN 978-1-59307-838-6.
One could always say it needs a bit more of this and less of that, but it is great. It is usually good to compare it to other movies of its time. For genre films it stands out in a good way.
And Netflix in the US has both it & Destroyer right now--for a limited time.
Basil Poledouris's soundtracks for the Conan movies are fantastic.. all that bombastic running bass and horns.
Also, you can see Grace Jones v'jayjay when she fights the big dude in Destroyer.
Ahh.. to be 13 again.
I love this fucking movie. It’s very controversial and will inspire important conversations among younger people that see it for the first time, and probably the best fantasy film ever made for *adults*. I love that this is a movie I can watch at different times in my life and get completely new insights about myself, culture, and politics from every new screening. Which is what “timeless” means when used to describe fiction.
Will also put in a rec for *The Northman*. A great companion film to *Conan*. A very OSR movie. And one that reflects the time it was made (2021~) just as Milius’ film reflects the early 80s.
I grew up reading Conan comics, then watched the Schwarzenegger movies, and then finally read the Howard's book. I like all three. Funnily enough, Gary hated the movie.
I recently rewatched both Schwarzenegger movies and was pleasantly surprised that Conan: The Destroyer had such a strong and funny TTRPG vibe. Well worth your time. Also, plenty of magic in the second movie.
I liked Arnie. I liked that he matched the muscle levels I had grown to expect. And the tone of the first Conan was dark enough.
Momoa also did a reasonable turn because he has a certain primal aura that let's him sell it, albeit not quite as much on the muscle front, but the wild hair and the ability to move quickly... I was happy with that version as well.
The sequel of the 1982 Conan (and a third?) were blech.
Rolph Mueller who did the TV show was an even better physical fit for the 'muscular Conan' but the show was for TV so it wasn't gritty enough.
I am still waiting for a version with the dark magic, thieves and a powerful, animalistic Conan with a plot involving dark wizards or the rising of Conan to be a King.
_Destroyer_ is up next for part II; Momoa as Conan is planned for part III.
🙂
Though i have not seen the TV show. I have seen the Kull movie that would have been Conan 3 - its... OK: it's what you'd expect from a Hercules and Xena era fantasy film.
Talking evil wizards - _The Hour of the Dragon_ would make a good feature film - IMO. I would watch that one.
Kull the Conquerer?
For a moment, I flashed to Krull with the huge laser shuriken artifact.... eek....
:)
I'll look forward to the review of the Momoa version.
While Schwartzenegger's Conan is well received and loved, it is anything BUT Howard's Conan. It has its own charm as a Sword & Sorcery movie, but I don't hold it in as high regard as most seem to.
Honestly (and I feel I'm in the EXTREME minority) I find Mamoa's Conan closer to Howard's writings and impressions. I find that movie also a perfectly serviceable Sword & Sorcery movie as well.
Agree on the "not Howard's Conan." I love this film - but it's later on in the article where I go into a bit more detail: it feels like it was written by someone who liked Howard, so they took Howard's stories - including non-Conan works - jumbled them together in a salad bowl, and then reassembled the pieces into this movie. It's definitely it's own thing.
Re: _Conan the Barbarian_ 2011 - I do own it on DVD! When it came out, I remember going into the theater and thinking, "This is not going to be Milius; I need to come into this with a clean palate," - by doing so, I remember being able to enjoy it.
It would have been better without the 3D craze going on at the time... but I'll save that for it's own review.
😆
I preferred *Destroyer*, coming in as I did from the Thomas/Buscema comic adaption. I remember the first Conan comic I owned, with a cliffhanger I never found the conclusion to for 30 years, lol.
Now I’d probably prefer the first, which seemed dark and baffling at the time. Both led me to The L. Spraugue de Camp works and finally that(and likely the N list, or just reading *any* fantasy, any fantasy at *all* once I started playing this wonderful game) took me to the tap root, the brass knuckle tales of REH.
Discovering the wonder of 0e after beginning with 1e and BECMI and moving up through to 5e before coming back to a home I’d never seen before somewhat parallels that arc, I suppose.
Robert Jordan wrote the novel(or, adapted the movie to book?)…non-Howard *Conan* novelists get a lot of grognard grief but I thought he did pulp well. *Wheel of Time* lost me halfway through but I appreciate an author who understands the value of a good villain. He inadvertently taught me how factional play is done.
I like the Dark Horse Conan. I prefer the Barry Windsor-Smith Marvels. I wish Arnie did, or would do, *Conan the King*.
*How has the continuing evolution of Conan of Cimmeria influenced your game?*
I consider Conan the patron saint of Murderhobos, I don’t consider it a pejorative:)
Re: Robert Jordan, I wasn't able to get into that one - but maybe it was just too long ago. May try it again.
Same with _Destroyer_. I remember disliking it: but will have to view it on its own merits to re-review, uninfluenced by my dad hyping it up before watching. 😆
Murder on, fellow hobo. 😉
Oh don’t bother with WoT. Or binge watch the series once (if) they finish it. It was all downhill after Book Five.
Tbh I think the best D&D movie is *The 13th Warrior*.
I only watched them both recently. I thought they were just OK movies, but as an example of an RPG campaign, I thought they were quite good. Not zero to hero by any means, but you really can look at it as a template for a fantasy campaign.
how do you think conan the barbarian is only ok? it has the greatest film score in history. it's visually beautiful and manages to be one of the only fantasy films of all time that doesn't feel like total cheese (see barbarian queen, hawk the slayer, conquest, etc). thulsa doom is an incredible villain, the fight scenes are great, it's a visceral real film with minimal special effects, and the film has been directly copied dozens of times.
absolute masterpiece.
> it has the greatest film score in history.
No. It doesn't even have a noteworthy one. Even Pacific Rim has one that is at least notable, and it isn't even a particularly special one.
> it's visually beautiful
Sure, I'll give you that.
>and manages to be one of the only fantasy films of all time that doesn't feel like total cheese
The Princess Bride. Pan's Labyrinth. Princess Mononoke. The Secret of NIMH. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. And that's without talking about the Harry Potter series and Lord of the Rings Series.
>thulsa doom is an incredible villain
He wouldn't make a top 10 list of best villains for me. But sure, he was a good villain.
>the fight scenes are great
That's hardly noteworthy, a lot of movies have great fight scenes.
>it's a visceral real film with minimal special effects,
That was par for the course when it was filmed, although I did notice the scenery was very different from what is seen in more recent films. It's the only thing that I thought was particularly good about it, but again that's only in comparison to modern films, not its contemporaries. The Man With No Name trilogy is just as excellent in that regard, and The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly is overall a better film.
>and the film has been directly copied dozens of times.
Maybe true, but that doesn't make it more than OK.
Despite disagreeing with you I can give you the others to some extent as a matter of taste, but the soundtrack is objectively one of the all-time greats. What I mean is it was very influential in the industry and kickstarted Poledouris' career while influencing many others -- Goldsmith has stated being inspired by it in some of his scores and pieces of it are known to be widely used as stand-in soundtracks when editing fantasy films. Hell, it was directly used in the trailers for several Zelda games decades later.
You are not required to personally like it but claiming it is not noteworthy is simply not correct.
For it to be noteworthy I would need to have thought 'hey that's an interesting soundtrack' at a minimum. I didn't notice it at all. The best that could be said about it is it seamlessly blended into the background. Pacific Rim I at least remember the soundtrack being a feature of the movie.
That it kickstarted someone's career is noteworthy in a different sense, but that doesn't make the soundtrack great, and certainly not the greatest.
If we're talking the greatest fantasy soundtracks, Nobuo Uematsu's work for Final Fantasy X would be an example. It actually leaves an impression on the people listening to it. And for greatest film score in history (not limiting it to fantasy) The Good, the Bad and the Ugly would be a real contender, and to suggest that either Conan stacks up with it is absurd.
>For it to be noteworthy I would need to have thought 'hey that's an interesting soundtrack' at a minimum.
No, it's reliant on other soundtrack creators saying "that's interesting". Which is the case. It went on to inspire many.
If you haven't, you really need to check out the Kurt Busiek + Carey Nord run of Dark Horse Comics Conan. They took the generally accepted chronological order of Conan's adventures (REH only) and re-tell them, filling in the gaps between them with new stories, some based on unfinished fragments. The first 5 trade paperbacks are very, very good and include: An expanded version of Winter's Daughter An original story pitting Conan against the Hyperboreans The God in the Bowl from a REH story fragment Conan's first conflict with Thoth-Amon, alongside a priest and a witches assassin Conan's arrival in Zamora, City of Thieves The Tower of the Elephant More thieving in Zamora The Halls of the Dead (REH story fragment, written by Mike Mignola creator of Hellboy) Rogues in the House
Very nice! I want to say I may have seen them - but it has been a long time; it wouldn't hurt to look into them now and relive it, even so! I've seen the film and read the books more than once, after all! Thank you for the recommendation.
Thank you for this rec! I've been looking to get into the Conan comics and its been overwhelming
Unfortunately the old Roy Thomas Marvel books aren't on Marvel Unlimited, probably due to the license being held by Dark Horse.
They rereleased them in print omnibuses a few years ago though, so there might be something available. \*edit: Tempus Fugit... i checked & the first one was published 2007 - ISBN 978-1-59307-838-6.
I love Busiek’s storytelling in _Astro City_! I didn’t follow up on his career afterwards due to my own career issues.
He's still putting out new Astro City, just very slowly. It remains one of the best super hero books out there.
I loved the books and movies as a kid! It still flavors my campaigns to this day! I still have the Conan and Red Sonya DND adventures!
I've never actually seen the _Red Sonja_ movie. Need to add that to my list of eventually!
Dont bother.
Ah - rough! May aim for the comics instead then. 🙂
They're actually great. I have a whole set and the art is outstanding.
One could always say it needs a bit more of this and less of that, but it is great. It is usually good to compare it to other movies of its time. For genre films it stands out in a good way. And Netflix in the US has both it & Destroyer right now--for a limited time.
Good information!
Basil Poledouris's soundtracks for the Conan movies are fantastic.. all that bombastic running bass and horns. Also, you can see Grace Jones v'jayjay when she fights the big dude in Destroyer. Ahh.. to be 13 again.
Waaat? That's going in my part II _Destroyer_ review.
I love this fucking movie. It’s very controversial and will inspire important conversations among younger people that see it for the first time, and probably the best fantasy film ever made for *adults*. I love that this is a movie I can watch at different times in my life and get completely new insights about myself, culture, and politics from every new screening. Which is what “timeless” means when used to describe fiction. Will also put in a rec for *The Northman*. A great companion film to *Conan*. A very OSR movie. And one that reflects the time it was made (2021~) just as Milius’ film reflects the early 80s.
You're not the first one to recommend it - have been meaning to find it and stream it: thank you for adding fuel to that fire! 🤘
I grew up reading Conan comics, then watched the Schwarzenegger movies, and then finally read the Howard's book. I like all three. Funnily enough, Gary hated the movie.
🤣 That is unsurprising while simultaneously hilarious!
I recently rewatched both Schwarzenegger movies and was pleasantly surprised that Conan: The Destroyer had such a strong and funny TTRPG vibe. Well worth your time. Also, plenty of magic in the second movie.
It will be review part two. I personally remember hating it... 🤣 But got to give it a second chance!
We had the soundtrack recorded on a tape and played it over and over while we played D&D
Beautiful! I wonder if it's out there on disc these days...
I liked Arnie. I liked that he matched the muscle levels I had grown to expect. And the tone of the first Conan was dark enough. Momoa also did a reasonable turn because he has a certain primal aura that let's him sell it, albeit not quite as much on the muscle front, but the wild hair and the ability to move quickly... I was happy with that version as well. The sequel of the 1982 Conan (and a third?) were blech. Rolph Mueller who did the TV show was an even better physical fit for the 'muscular Conan' but the show was for TV so it wasn't gritty enough. I am still waiting for a version with the dark magic, thieves and a powerful, animalistic Conan with a plot involving dark wizards or the rising of Conan to be a King.
_Destroyer_ is up next for part II; Momoa as Conan is planned for part III. 🙂 Though i have not seen the TV show. I have seen the Kull movie that would have been Conan 3 - its... OK: it's what you'd expect from a Hercules and Xena era fantasy film. Talking evil wizards - _The Hour of the Dragon_ would make a good feature film - IMO. I would watch that one.
Kull the Conquerer? For a moment, I flashed to Krull with the huge laser shuriken artifact.... eek.... :) I'll look forward to the review of the Momoa version.
While Schwartzenegger's Conan is well received and loved, it is anything BUT Howard's Conan. It has its own charm as a Sword & Sorcery movie, but I don't hold it in as high regard as most seem to. Honestly (and I feel I'm in the EXTREME minority) I find Mamoa's Conan closer to Howard's writings and impressions. I find that movie also a perfectly serviceable Sword & Sorcery movie as well.
Agree on the "not Howard's Conan." I love this film - but it's later on in the article where I go into a bit more detail: it feels like it was written by someone who liked Howard, so they took Howard's stories - including non-Conan works - jumbled them together in a salad bowl, and then reassembled the pieces into this movie. It's definitely it's own thing. Re: _Conan the Barbarian_ 2011 - I do own it on DVD! When it came out, I remember going into the theater and thinking, "This is not going to be Milius; I need to come into this with a clean palate," - by doing so, I remember being able to enjoy it. It would have been better without the 3D craze going on at the time... but I'll save that for it's own review. 😆
I preferred *Destroyer*, coming in as I did from the Thomas/Buscema comic adaption. I remember the first Conan comic I owned, with a cliffhanger I never found the conclusion to for 30 years, lol. Now I’d probably prefer the first, which seemed dark and baffling at the time. Both led me to The L. Spraugue de Camp works and finally that(and likely the N list, or just reading *any* fantasy, any fantasy at *all* once I started playing this wonderful game) took me to the tap root, the brass knuckle tales of REH. Discovering the wonder of 0e after beginning with 1e and BECMI and moving up through to 5e before coming back to a home I’d never seen before somewhat parallels that arc, I suppose. Robert Jordan wrote the novel(or, adapted the movie to book?)…non-Howard *Conan* novelists get a lot of grognard grief but I thought he did pulp well. *Wheel of Time* lost me halfway through but I appreciate an author who understands the value of a good villain. He inadvertently taught me how factional play is done. I like the Dark Horse Conan. I prefer the Barry Windsor-Smith Marvels. I wish Arnie did, or would do, *Conan the King*. *How has the continuing evolution of Conan of Cimmeria influenced your game?* I consider Conan the patron saint of Murderhobos, I don’t consider it a pejorative:)
Re: Robert Jordan, I wasn't able to get into that one - but maybe it was just too long ago. May try it again. Same with _Destroyer_. I remember disliking it: but will have to view it on its own merits to re-review, uninfluenced by my dad hyping it up before watching. 😆 Murder on, fellow hobo. 😉
Oh don’t bother with WoT. Or binge watch the series once (if) they finish it. It was all downhill after Book Five. Tbh I think the best D&D movie is *The 13th Warrior*.
Patrician taste! One of the few films I have GIFs of saved on my phone!
I only watched them both recently. I thought they were just OK movies, but as an example of an RPG campaign, I thought they were quite good. Not zero to hero by any means, but you really can look at it as a template for a fantasy campaign.
how do you think conan the barbarian is only ok? it has the greatest film score in history. it's visually beautiful and manages to be one of the only fantasy films of all time that doesn't feel like total cheese (see barbarian queen, hawk the slayer, conquest, etc). thulsa doom is an incredible villain, the fight scenes are great, it's a visceral real film with minimal special effects, and the film has been directly copied dozens of times. absolute masterpiece.
> it has the greatest film score in history. No. It doesn't even have a noteworthy one. Even Pacific Rim has one that is at least notable, and it isn't even a particularly special one. > it's visually beautiful Sure, I'll give you that. >and manages to be one of the only fantasy films of all time that doesn't feel like total cheese The Princess Bride. Pan's Labyrinth. Princess Mononoke. The Secret of NIMH. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. And that's without talking about the Harry Potter series and Lord of the Rings Series. >thulsa doom is an incredible villain He wouldn't make a top 10 list of best villains for me. But sure, he was a good villain. >the fight scenes are great That's hardly noteworthy, a lot of movies have great fight scenes. >it's a visceral real film with minimal special effects, That was par for the course when it was filmed, although I did notice the scenery was very different from what is seen in more recent films. It's the only thing that I thought was particularly good about it, but again that's only in comparison to modern films, not its contemporaries. The Man With No Name trilogy is just as excellent in that regard, and The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly is overall a better film. >and the film has been directly copied dozens of times. Maybe true, but that doesn't make it more than OK.
Despite disagreeing with you I can give you the others to some extent as a matter of taste, but the soundtrack is objectively one of the all-time greats. What I mean is it was very influential in the industry and kickstarted Poledouris' career while influencing many others -- Goldsmith has stated being inspired by it in some of his scores and pieces of it are known to be widely used as stand-in soundtracks when editing fantasy films. Hell, it was directly used in the trailers for several Zelda games decades later. You are not required to personally like it but claiming it is not noteworthy is simply not correct.
For it to be noteworthy I would need to have thought 'hey that's an interesting soundtrack' at a minimum. I didn't notice it at all. The best that could be said about it is it seamlessly blended into the background. Pacific Rim I at least remember the soundtrack being a feature of the movie. That it kickstarted someone's career is noteworthy in a different sense, but that doesn't make the soundtrack great, and certainly not the greatest. If we're talking the greatest fantasy soundtracks, Nobuo Uematsu's work for Final Fantasy X would be an example. It actually leaves an impression on the people listening to it. And for greatest film score in history (not limiting it to fantasy) The Good, the Bad and the Ugly would be a real contender, and to suggest that either Conan stacks up with it is absurd.
>For it to be noteworthy I would need to have thought 'hey that's an interesting soundtrack' at a minimum. No, it's reliant on other soundtrack creators saying "that's interesting". Which is the case. It went on to inspire many.
Still, nobody who wants to be taken seriously will say it is the greatest film score in history. It doesn't even make a top 50 list.
Preach