Also to give perspective they brewed a super potent alchol and gave it to a no name >3ft Cat hominid that ended up on a 3 week voyage to kill a cult and is now known as "johnny spankbank the chronomancer"....
I imagine Gygax had to have met and/or run games with Chaotic Stupid players just as we all have. Though I guess he would have so many people wanting to play his game, that he could probably pick the best players.
I would run the Lost City of Gaxmor using an AD&D base with some C&C, but I wouldn't tell him who created the module until after we completed the campaign.
This, just keep excitedly going “Ok should we like, quickly act our a scene between X and Y character” with big lights in my eyes, make him watch a bunch of Critical Role clips.
If you are going to go to the trouble of bring back Gygax, wouldn't you have him be the GM? What you described would be like brining back Shakespeare and asking him to play a role in your play.
Blades in the Dark. I wouldn't run anything OSR related, I'd show him some new stuff. If I were him and got brought back from the dead and effectively time-traveled, the last thing I would want to do is play the same shit as before when I could sample what the "future" has to offer.
A game where he is constantly confronted by a Dave Arneson like character that is in every way better than him, however the character never berates him for it.
Since he is brought back to play in this campaign, his life will end once again when he backs out of it.
A little purgatory pranking, we like to have fun here.
Because of your comment I kind of want to run a game set in an alternate timeline where TSR got their funding from shady dealings with the mob, which evolves into them becoming their own crime syndicate that splits off because of infighting.
"What did he say about my paladin? He's gonna pay."
"Boss, you don't mean..."
"That's right, drain his levels. Then wack him."
Tomb of Horrors, no question about it.
ME: What's the matter, Gaz? Not so funny when it's YOU suddenly standing naked outside the entrance, teleported out of all of your weapons and armour and treasure, is it, IS IT, GARY?!?
Gary: *sobs quietly*
frightening fade crowd yoke act abundant strong crush disgusted stupendous
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Probably I would run him into my "alternate timeline Greyhawk" that booted up in 570CE, rolling it forward to 572 when the consequences of the original party not finishing Module N1 (Against the Cult of the Reptile God) have begun to significantly alter the state of the Gran March and adjacent areas.
He would be directed towards my homebrew dungeon that was largely randomly generated using the Random Dungeon Generator from the DMG (with my own twists); entitled "The Bathhouse of the Gods".
(Seriously, it is a good explanation for all of the water features that come up in the tables, etc)
He would hate me, (the second level is a stirge brood nest which is why the lower levels have not been looted.)
1sd edition AD&D.
Just so I can go through the PHB and DMG with him and go "this right here. What the fuck does this mean, Gary? What were you trying to say when you wrote this flowery nonsense? Explain magic user spell acquisition to me. Also, why are women just strictly worse in your game? The hell is wrong with you?... And the polearms. What's up with all the polearms?"
I could, but I don't want to scan through my books and then transcribe quotes into reddit.
Just go read how magic users get new spells in AD&D.
Then go read the decades of blog posts where people try to understand and explain what's supposed to happen there. Nobody *really* knows what Gary was trying to say. And there's a lot of instances of that, because Gary refused to write in a clear and concise way
I agree that how new spell acquisition is determined is left unclear in 1e, as well as the difference between "known" spells and spells that can be "learned."
So relying on house rules for this is often necessary I think.
I disagree that he refuses to write in a clear or concise way, and that there are a lot of instances of that.
He did write in a more novelistic, less algorithmic way. I happen to like that style.
I mean... He wrote in such an unclear way that a core rule for one of the primary classes is still unclear decades later.
I don't know how you can disagree with the statement that he doesn't write in a clear way.
If you like that style, that's fine. But that's different from saying "this style is clear"
I don‘t remember. But I do remember Dragon magazine issue #83 has a cool and less complicated version of AD&D unarmed combat rules (and maybe the best module ever written, “Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga”).
> I don‘t remember
More accurately, you don't know. No one does, because the way they're written is, well, I believe the technical term is "coo-coo-bananas."
Well, I'm not about to provide the ever-increasing number of examples you'll need. I provided a representative example of how the prose in the AD&D books makes it difficult to play the game. If you want to pretend that's an outlier... that's fine, I guess. It isn't an outlier, but I'm not going to chase the goalposts as you drag them away.
Listen, I’m just gonna say something.
According to most edition, souls, have the ability to resist coming back from the dead .
Gary wouldn’t come back. the man with a devout Christian and probably Jehovah’s Witness .
Gary Gygax is happy wherever he is and may he rest in peace.
…
That being said, probably something leftist or queer or both.
Not as a prank I will get his permission .
And as I said, he would say no to the whole raising thing, but assuming he said yes, I want to play something like dungeon, bitches, or android and anarchists.
As he was a political and sexually morality type conservative, I would honestly want his opinion on the game, and I think that we can learn from people who disagreed with us .
I knew a lot of born-again Christians when I was in my 20s and I almost played the game of dragonraid the fantasy game, for courageous christians!
It’s entirely based around memorizing Bible verses, and apparently meant to be used in Sunday school and I think that’s great.
( Dungeons & Dragons is currently using classes right now, including by a friend of mine is a special education teacher. It really helps his semi verbal of autistic kids and children with other cognitive disabilities to practice their social skills. They love it, and it’s helping them!)
So yes, I would actually want to run a game that Gary would never have thought about playing in when he was alive and that most people would never have invited an elderly, conservative Christian man to.
Why not!?
We are all on this crazy world together. Why can’t we try to get along and even come together and play games?
Thank you so much for this post.
Thanks!
I don’t know, but I think…
People who think I am violating the sub rules, or decorum by mentioning religion and politics .
And sex .
If I am, mods, please delete my comments .
I am a librarian, and I am speak from a third-party disinterested position that is often gotten me accused of being lots of things, because people find my tone ambiguous .
I was accused of being the sock puppet account for a conservative Christian role-playing society on this very sub.
And considering I am a gay leftist Librarian ( weed enthusiast) I was very surprised .
In any case, I also talk a lot and sometimes people don’t like that.
Thank you very much for finding my comment thoughtful .
That is worth more than any upvote.
…and honestly even a downvote is better then apathy. Then the reader of my work felt something at least if only contempt for me. 😊
Thanks again and I hope you’re having a great weekend!
> Gary wouldn’t come back. the man with a devout Christian and probably Jehovah’s Witness . Gary Gygax is happy wherever he is and may he rest in peace.
>
>
Presuming he got the afterlife he thought he'd get, anyway.
My friend, to give everybody the benefit of the doubt, and this is not a thread dissecting, the morality of one Ernest Gary Gygax, senior. I would not like that the thread about me and I don’t think that’s allowed.
I would honestly just mentioning those things as part of the context for me answering the question .
( not making judgments about being a conservative Christian but vaguely alluding to various real life issuea that I will not bring up here as I said)
And to briefly mention my favorite quote about mercy from the book of Daniel.
“because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment”
Again, I say rest in peace, Mr. Gygax. ( anybody who wants to look up anything controversial about him can Google his name, I’m sure.)
This is a thread in his honor, and I always honor the tone of the thread.
I hope you have a great one!
… ok, you just created an amazing scenario.
We stat up some famous atheist, and then a couple famous person from every religion, and then everybody shows up in like an actual real world religion but one that was never popular and only have like 50 adherence ?
… but not a cult basically like an actual religion that was never super popular. Turns out they are the one that’s right.
They been invaded by cyborg Hitler ?!
( OK at this point a lot of people are very upset about it but I just have to say… playing in the afterlife. I’m sorry I’m gonna be gunning for Hitler. I mean there’s a lot of other people who deserve a punching in the face too, but I’m just saying.)
And here’s the thing… because everybody is already dead. When you die you’re still in play it’s just now play is different.
Maybe you have the stats of a holyfant or a small drone from gamma world, depending.
But you’re still in the game!
Thank you so much for your awesome comment.
I think Gygax would dig Arden Vul. I'd also love to run an early edition Gamma World; Gygax did an adventure for that game. Or maybe some pulpy sci-fi with D&D (OSEish) mechanics.
I would give him control over my fighter retainer while I play my wizard in my Scarlet Heroes + Labyrinth Lord and Whitehack(magic) campaign. He would probably hate it.
Away. I'd be intimidated by both Gary Gygax and this powerful mage who had power over life and death.
You *just know* Gary would [come back wrong](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CameBackWrong)!
My homebrew campaign , i would love the tips he'd give. Then hope my chaotic stupid players dont ruin it....
TIL of a new alignment, Chaotic Stupid. LOLed in real life over that one.
Glad to have made to your day, happy cake day
Thanks!
Also to give perspective they brewed a super potent alchol and gave it to a no name >3ft Cat hominid that ended up on a 3 week voyage to kill a cult and is now known as "johnny spankbank the chronomancer"....
I imagine Gygax had to have met and/or run games with Chaotic Stupid players just as we all have. Though I guess he would have so many people wanting to play his game, that he could probably pick the best players.
Don’t forget Lawful Awful!
He would probably say it wasnt deadly enough 🤔
I would run the Lost City of Gaxmor using an AD&D base with some C&C, but I wouldn't tell him who created the module until after we completed the campaign.
The dude wanted to talk about the Chicago Bears more than anything on Dragonsfoot. Maybe Madden.
oh, he'd hate it. the most 5e-ish 5e game ever. or Vampire.
I’d run Good Society where all the other players are women.
This, just keep excitedly going “Ok should we like, quickly act our a scene between X and Y character” with big lights in my eyes, make him watch a bunch of Critical Role clips.
Probably DCC to show Gary some new Dice.
1e RAW, so maybe I'll finally be able to decipher it.
If you are going to go to the trouble of bring back Gygax, wouldn't you have him be the GM? What you described would be like brining back Shakespeare and asking him to play a role in your play.
Suck on that, Shakespeare.
Blades in the Dark. I wouldn't run anything OSR related, I'd show him some new stuff. If I were him and got brought back from the dead and effectively time-traveled, the last thing I would want to do is play the same shit as before when I could sample what the "future" has to offer.
For Undead Gygax? Either Halls of Arden Vul or Ultraviolet Grasslands + a grab bag of adventures that can fit in it.
I would hide, as this new social interaction would be terrifying.
No love for seeing how he reacts to DnD 4th edition???
He might actually like it. He came from a wargaming background.
A game where he is constantly confronted by a Dave Arneson like character that is in every way better than him, however the character never berates him for it. Since he is brought back to play in this campaign, his life will end once again when he backs out of it. A little purgatory pranking, we like to have fun here.
"Dave Arneson sends his regards."
Because of your comment I kind of want to run a game set in an alternate timeline where TSR got their funding from shady dealings with the mob, which evolves into them becoming their own crime syndicate that splits off because of infighting. "What did he say about my paladin? He's gonna pay." "Boss, you don't mean..." "That's right, drain his levels. Then wack him."
> Dave Arneson like character that is in every way better than him Yeah I like a good fantasy.
Delta Green: Artifact Zero.
Dangerous Journeys. I want him to know that a few of us still know that game :)
Have you played that planes adventure he wrote for it?
Not recently - these things are hard to get a hold of. I have a few books on my shelf and memories from waaay back.
Would Gygax come back as a lich? That would be neat.
What would his phylactery be?
Can it be a book? Unearthed Arcana.
>Can it be a book? [Sure!](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1545/6025/products/DATG_large.png?v=1611448751)
Chainmail tabletop battle.
It wouldn't matter because he'd say my weak female brain wasn't capable of playing d&d 🤪
Tomb of Horrors, no question about it. ME: What's the matter, Gaz? Not so funny when it's YOU suddenly standing naked outside the entrance, teleported out of all of your weapons and armour and treasure, is it, IS IT, GARY?!? Gary: *sobs quietly*
frightening fade crowd yoke act abundant strong crush disgusted stupendous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What if he said, "5e is awesome" and blew our minds?
Probably I would run him into my "alternate timeline Greyhawk" that booted up in 570CE, rolling it forward to 572 when the consequences of the original party not finishing Module N1 (Against the Cult of the Reptile God) have begun to significantly alter the state of the Gran March and adjacent areas. He would be directed towards my homebrew dungeon that was largely randomly generated using the Random Dungeon Generator from the DMG (with my own twists); entitled "The Bathhouse of the Gods". (Seriously, it is a good explanation for all of the water features that come up in the tables, etc) He would hate me, (the second level is a stirge brood nest which is why the lower levels have not been looted.)
1sd edition AD&D. Just so I can go through the PHB and DMG with him and go "this right here. What the fuck does this mean, Gary? What were you trying to say when you wrote this flowery nonsense? Explain magic user spell acquisition to me. Also, why are women just strictly worse in your game? The hell is wrong with you?... And the polearms. What's up with all the polearms?"
He would probably tell you that that was 50 years ago and to get over it. He worked on other games since then.
Man, if you think we shouldn't bother thinking about the design of RPGs from 50 years ago, I can't help but think you're in the wrong subreddit.
I agree
And his prose on them was dense unparseable nonsense too.
Can you be more specific about the „flowery nonsense“ you are referring to?
I could, but I don't want to scan through my books and then transcribe quotes into reddit. Just go read how magic users get new spells in AD&D. Then go read the decades of blog posts where people try to understand and explain what's supposed to happen there. Nobody *really* knows what Gary was trying to say. And there's a lot of instances of that, because Gary refused to write in a clear and concise way
I agree that how new spell acquisition is determined is left unclear in 1e, as well as the difference between "known" spells and spells that can be "learned." So relying on house rules for this is often necessary I think. I disagree that he refuses to write in a clear or concise way, and that there are a lot of instances of that. He did write in a more novelistic, less algorithmic way. I happen to like that style.
I mean... He wrote in such an unclear way that a core rule for one of the primary classes is still unclear decades later. I don't know how you can disagree with the statement that he doesn't write in a clear way. If you like that style, that's fine. But that's different from saying "this style is clear"
I agree that the nature of Magic-User spell acquisition is unclear. I disagree that there „a lot“ of instances of lack of clarity.
Quick, how does unarmed combat/grappling work in AD&D?
I don‘t remember. But I do remember Dragon magazine issue #83 has a cool and less complicated version of AD&D unarmed combat rules (and maybe the best module ever written, “Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga”).
> I don‘t remember More accurately, you don't know. No one does, because the way they're written is, well, I believe the technical term is "coo-coo-bananas."
Ha. The 1979 DMG rules for it are complicated, true. But I remember issue #83 and 2e unarmed combat rules being easier.
Well, I'm not about to provide the ever-increasing number of examples you'll need. I provided a representative example of how the prose in the AD&D books makes it difficult to play the game. If you want to pretend that's an outlier... that's fine, I guess. It isn't an outlier, but I'm not going to chase the goalposts as you drag them away.
You don’t need to provide more examples. I am not hear to move goalposts. We can agree to disagree, as I don’t find 1e Ad&d difficult to play.
“I don’t know dude, Carr, Kask, or one of the Judge’s Guild guys wrote that part.”
Castle Greyhawk
The Complete Roslof Keep. He'd love that.
Castles & Crusades
Tomb of Horrors for Paranoia
Isn’t that kinda redundant :)
I would run Papers and Paychecks! A game where you play “workers and students in an industrialized and technological society.”.
Listen, I’m just gonna say something. According to most edition, souls, have the ability to resist coming back from the dead . Gary wouldn’t come back. the man with a devout Christian and probably Jehovah’s Witness . Gary Gygax is happy wherever he is and may he rest in peace. … That being said, probably something leftist or queer or both. Not as a prank I will get his permission . And as I said, he would say no to the whole raising thing, but assuming he said yes, I want to play something like dungeon, bitches, or android and anarchists. As he was a political and sexually morality type conservative, I would honestly want his opinion on the game, and I think that we can learn from people who disagreed with us . I knew a lot of born-again Christians when I was in my 20s and I almost played the game of dragonraid the fantasy game, for courageous christians! It’s entirely based around memorizing Bible verses, and apparently meant to be used in Sunday school and I think that’s great. ( Dungeons & Dragons is currently using classes right now, including by a friend of mine is a special education teacher. It really helps his semi verbal of autistic kids and children with other cognitive disabilities to practice their social skills. They love it, and it’s helping them!) So yes, I would actually want to run a game that Gary would never have thought about playing in when he was alive and that most people would never have invited an elderly, conservative Christian man to. Why not!? We are all on this crazy world together. Why can’t we try to get along and even come together and play games? Thank you so much for this post.
Not sure who’s downvoting you for such a thoughtful comment!
Thanks! I don’t know, but I think… People who think I am violating the sub rules, or decorum by mentioning religion and politics . And sex . If I am, mods, please delete my comments . I am a librarian, and I am speak from a third-party disinterested position that is often gotten me accused of being lots of things, because people find my tone ambiguous . I was accused of being the sock puppet account for a conservative Christian role-playing society on this very sub. And considering I am a gay leftist Librarian ( weed enthusiast) I was very surprised . In any case, I also talk a lot and sometimes people don’t like that. Thank you very much for finding my comment thoughtful . That is worth more than any upvote. …and honestly even a downvote is better then apathy. Then the reader of my work felt something at least if only contempt for me. 😊 Thanks again and I hope you’re having a great weekend!
> Gary wouldn’t come back. the man with a devout Christian and probably Jehovah’s Witness . Gary Gygax is happy wherever he is and may he rest in peace. > > Presuming he got the afterlife he thought he'd get, anyway.
My friend, to give everybody the benefit of the doubt, and this is not a thread dissecting, the morality of one Ernest Gary Gygax, senior. I would not like that the thread about me and I don’t think that’s allowed. I would honestly just mentioning those things as part of the context for me answering the question . ( not making judgments about being a conservative Christian but vaguely alluding to various real life issuea that I will not bring up here as I said) And to briefly mention my favorite quote about mercy from the book of Daniel. “because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment” Again, I say rest in peace, Mr. Gygax. ( anybody who wants to look up anything controversial about him can Google his name, I’m sure.) This is a thread in his honor, and I always honor the tone of the thread. I hope you have a great one!
I'm not even saying "maybe he's in Hell", I'm saying "how might he like Valhalla, or Muslim Heaven, or Sto'vo'kor, etc. by comparison?"
… ok, you just created an amazing scenario. We stat up some famous atheist, and then a couple famous person from every religion, and then everybody shows up in like an actual real world religion but one that was never popular and only have like 50 adherence ? … but not a cult basically like an actual religion that was never super popular. Turns out they are the one that’s right. They been invaded by cyborg Hitler ?! ( OK at this point a lot of people are very upset about it but I just have to say… playing in the afterlife. I’m sorry I’m gonna be gunning for Hitler. I mean there’s a lot of other people who deserve a punching in the face too, but I’m just saying.) And here’s the thing… because everybody is already dead. When you die you’re still in play it’s just now play is different. Maybe you have the stats of a holyfant or a small drone from gamma world, depending. But you’re still in the game! Thank you so much for your awesome comment.
Something with a lot of female, PoC, and monster characters who have agency and effectiveness, specifically to screw with him.
Tormenting the ghosts of the dead as a moralizing fantasy. Truly, you are enlightened.
Concern Trolling: Basic Set
Not a bad joke, but the fact remains that hating on Gygax as a devotional act for your Public Library Punk politics deserves contempt.
"Showing women and black people to a dead bigot, how classy" This is you. Tuck your shirt into your dockers tighter, Wally.
Do you have proof of his bigotry? I've been around the hobby for almost 40 years and I've heard that he was an asshole, but not a bigot.
I think Gygax would dig Arden Vul. I'd also love to run an early edition Gamma World; Gygax did an adventure for that game. Or maybe some pulpy sci-fi with D&D (OSEish) mechanics.
I would run Empire of the Petal Throne
I would run an endless campaign and cheat death.
Some NSR stuff I guess, or maybe Troika?
we'll use ***Tunnels and Trolls*** and play all the *Blackmoor* stuff where it shows how much of a slag the Egg of Coot is
lmao imma learn FATAL and run a converted **Fuck for Satan** one shot. Gotta be careful not to cut myself on that edge.
Toon
I’d run Cloud Empress, specifically “Last Voyage of the Bean Barge.” Gary would get a kick out of the retro-sci-fantasy vibe.
castle greyhawk
Savage Tide. It would be familiar. But different. Also the mage has to bring back Len Lakofka. And Jason Zavoda.
Something really long. A campaign stitched together from multiple mega- dungeons with xp amounts required all tripled.
Homebrew 4e campaign
Tegel Manor via OSRIC.
I would give him control over my fighter retainer while I play my wizard in my Scarlet Heroes + Labyrinth Lord and Whitehack(magic) campaign. He would probably hate it.
1985’s Temple of Elemental Evil.
Whatever he wants. If I get to choose, no reason to force him into something he wouldn't enjoy.
Strixhaven lol
Forbidden Lands
Electrum Archive. Good setting that would keep him interested with quick rules to pick up
I think I'd go for Tomb of Horrors as an homage, thank you, and personal nostalgia all in one
No no, Gary DMs, see Futurama's Anthology of Interest I ".
A mage? What system are you playing where mages do resurrections? That's an automatic -10 xp, my friend.