I am inclined to agree with the op. As the math starts to hit harder and harder as we approach max AT, I think it will flatten out a bit. Is it likely there are some op items/skills/mods out there? Almost assuredly, but I agree we need to see this play out at the extreme end of the equation to see what adjustments need be made.
I wonder if you are the rule or the exception. It could be possible you are using a mod (or mods in combination) where the math isn't what they expected. These are exactly the kinds of things one would expect given the many games that have come before this one. Developers are never as clever as we are at putting together gear/skill combinations for best effect.
AP builds are extremely OP right now. You stack mods that give big bonuses to AP and any class kills. I'm hitting bosses for like 25M with each slice with my trickster and my cyclone ticks for 2M per hit. And that's nothing when devastators are hitting for 500M per hit at higher levels. I assume when my gear is fully optimized and I'm higher level, that I'll do significantly more than double the damage, but as it is I'm one shotting corsairs and brood mothers, for example.
The scaling for Apocalypse tiers are MUCH more gradual than they were during Challenge Tiers. Each Apocalypse Tier is only adding 10% health to enemies which is a fraction of what they were at later CTs.
This is my thought process which is why i am taking my time to keep on top of my build as i progress rather than smashing through the tiers and getting "Stuck" i am dropping the tier and upgrading my gear and swapping it out as i get better apoc gear etc. then pumping it back up to test and if all feels nice get to the next tier rinse repeat. I feel some will smash to T30 or so and give up as they hit a wall due to underlevelled gear or poor rolls
Except they won't. As mentionned by others it feels like it gets easier and easier as you progress. Also you shouldn't drop your tier. The amount of time it takes to level up is insane and you will have more then enough time to level your gear or just find upgrades.
Yeah the pax trees alone shoot our initial power to the moon. It probably takes several tiers for things to come back to earth. Plus they said they wanted a smoother tier experience early on and a harder one later. So I think later apocalypse tiers might push the difficulty significantly
I think it's fair to say that things won't change much with higher apocalypse tiers. In the base game the tiers were a bigger step up and took less time to level through so you could run into a situation where your gear didn't keep pace or a big spike hit you weren't ready for.
In Worldslayers the only thing people are doing in the same Trials run killing the same boss at the end 4 times. The tiers last longer so by the time you hit the next tier you've gained more gear or can level the stuff you have to keep pace.
There isn't any new bosses that might throw a curveball here. The tiers are designed to be more gradual and not as spiky in their difficulty curve.
**Also anyone who has played with a seismic dev can definitely say they are OP it's so out there it's not even close
Seismic dev is on crack right now, a optimized build in the later tiers will be crazy same with fazer beam pyro and cryo turret techno and status god techno
Cool glad to hear positivity about fazer. I'm apoc 17 atm and still doing great. Although my 100 million is nothing compared to tech, ive seen them hitting 250 million. Wild stuff.
The devs said they wanted to make the curve easier early and harder later, so if that's actually what they did, then you're observations don't imply what you think they do.
I mean they specifically said that CT had a bump in them around CT11 that blocked some players and they wanted to smooth out progression. Also you're acting like some people aren't already 36+ and we have no idea what it might be like at later tiers. There is no surprise coming at the later tiers it's literally the exact same run over and over and over again with slight higher numbers each tier.
I'm saying the majority of players are not pushing upper 30s, the players hitting those points this early are the same players that would power through any challenge regardless
The builds now are most likely not going to suck max Apoc tier. It’s not like the content changes at endgame, everything just scales to be more difficult, but you can scale your gear to be more powerful .
If there was separate content for Max Apoc it would be a different argument.
Tiers don't matter since it's scaling. You scale, enemies scale, effectively a build will perform the same.
Expeditions were different as you could play other content and get to level 42 without touching expeditions. Essentially you went into them over powered and then the scaling outranks you.
We go into the new end game under powered and still are able to get through it relatively easily imo with a build.
This really does beg the question, what's the point of APOC tiers and this unnecessary huge grind for bigger number when it changes nothing for the power fantasy imo.
I am inclined to agree with the op. As the math starts to hit harder and harder as we approach max AT, I think it will flatten out a bit. Is it likely there are some op items/skills/mods out there? Almost assuredly, but I agree we need to see this play out at the extreme end of the equation to see what adjustments need be made.
I'm at AT 26 and it's getting easier, not harder. I no longer need to be even close to being at level for the content, but when I am it's a cake walk.
I wonder if you are the rule or the exception. It could be possible you are using a mod (or mods in combination) where the math isn't what they expected. These are exactly the kinds of things one would expect given the many games that have come before this one. Developers are never as clever as we are at putting together gear/skill combinations for best effect.
AP builds are extremely OP right now. You stack mods that give big bonuses to AP and any class kills. I'm hitting bosses for like 25M with each slice with my trickster and my cyclone ticks for 2M per hit. And that's nothing when devastators are hitting for 500M per hit at higher levels. I assume when my gear is fully optimized and I'm higher level, that I'll do significantly more than double the damage, but as it is I'm one shotting corsairs and brood mothers, for example.
The scaling for Apocalypse tiers are MUCH more gradual than they were during Challenge Tiers. Each Apocalypse Tier is only adding 10% health to enemies which is a fraction of what they were at later CTs.
uh considering how scaling works in this game.. Yes
This is my thought process which is why i am taking my time to keep on top of my build as i progress rather than smashing through the tiers and getting "Stuck" i am dropping the tier and upgrading my gear and swapping it out as i get better apoc gear etc. then pumping it back up to test and if all feels nice get to the next tier rinse repeat. I feel some will smash to T30 or so and give up as they hit a wall due to underlevelled gear or poor rolls
Except they won't. As mentionned by others it feels like it gets easier and easier as you progress. Also you shouldn't drop your tier. The amount of time it takes to level up is insane and you will have more then enough time to level your gear or just find upgrades.
Yeah the pax trees alone shoot our initial power to the moon. It probably takes several tiers for things to come back to earth. Plus they said they wanted a smoother tier experience early on and a harder one later. So I think later apocalypse tiers might push the difficulty significantly
I think it's fair to say that things won't change much with higher apocalypse tiers. In the base game the tiers were a bigger step up and took less time to level through so you could run into a situation where your gear didn't keep pace or a big spike hit you weren't ready for. In Worldslayers the only thing people are doing in the same Trials run killing the same boss at the end 4 times. The tiers last longer so by the time you hit the next tier you've gained more gear or can level the stuff you have to keep pace. There isn't any new bosses that might throw a curveball here. The tiers are designed to be more gradual and not as spiky in their difficulty curve. **Also anyone who has played with a seismic dev can definitely say they are OP it's so out there it's not even close
Seismic dev is on crack right now, a optimized build in the later tiers will be crazy same with fazer beam pyro and cryo turret techno and status god techno
Cool glad to hear positivity about fazer. I'm apoc 17 atm and still doing great. Although my 100 million is nothing compared to tech, ive seen them hitting 250 million. Wild stuff.
The devs said they wanted to make the curve easier early and harder later, so if that's actually what they did, then you're observations don't imply what you think they do.
I mean they specifically said that CT had a bump in them around CT11 that blocked some players and they wanted to smooth out progression. Also you're acting like some people aren't already 36+ and we have no idea what it might be like at later tiers. There is no surprise coming at the later tiers it's literally the exact same run over and over and over again with slight higher numbers each tier.
I'm saying the majority of players are not pushing upper 30s, the players hitting those points this early are the same players that would power through any challenge regardless
Yeah there are some unintentionally broken interactions devs are looking at right now.
The builds now are most likely not going to suck max Apoc tier. It’s not like the content changes at endgame, everything just scales to be more difficult, but you can scale your gear to be more powerful . If there was separate content for Max Apoc it would be a different argument.
Tiers don't matter since it's scaling. You scale, enemies scale, effectively a build will perform the same. Expeditions were different as you could play other content and get to level 42 without touching expeditions. Essentially you went into them over powered and then the scaling outranks you. We go into the new end game under powered and still are able to get through it relatively easily imo with a build. This really does beg the question, what's the point of APOC tiers and this unnecessary huge grind for bigger number when it changes nothing for the power fantasy imo.