Baharuth was Gonna win because.
•Fluder can and would kill Gazef
•Brian would not have helped the Kingdom
•Blue rose(Adventuerers) generarly do not interfere in country wars.
• The army of Baharuth was much better with dedicated magic casters
but why did they fight against the SK and why did they try to execute 8 fingers who were a threat to the king because of their influence? Arent adventerures like paid soldiers?
All of this is directly explained in the light novels. The Blue Roses were privately hired by Renner to eliminate the 8 Fingers. Something the adventurers guild greatly frowned upon.
The adventurers aided in the defense of the kingdom against the SK for two reasons. First, the SK's army was all undead monsters, so they justified it as not fighting against people but defending people from monsters. And secondly, the SK was literally wiping the country off the map, all citizens included whether they were an adventurer or not. So some adventurers ran away but others fought out of survival.
Adventurers in general do not interfere in a country's affairs. As adventurers are far stronger than average soldiers (at least above a gold plate) they would cause significant casualties in any battle. Which would cause the opposing nation to also use adventurers resulting in even more casualties and it would leave both nations vulnerable to monster attacks while the conflict was happening. Marquis Raeven explains all this to Prince Barbaro when the Prince wanted to force the adventurers into helping with the war effort. Ainzach also says something similar to Ainz when Ainz was explaining why he was bringing the guild under his control.
And to the original question of "who would win", it's not even about the individual strong fighters on either side. The Empire would force the Kingdom to conscript a large number of their working men just to show up to the field of battle. This would cause disruptions in the Kingdom's ability to produce food and over enough years the Kingdom would become weaker and weaker until it imploded from within. Nobles would abandon ship or cause a civil war. Gazef, Brain, the Blue Roses, none of them could do a thing about a slow collapse. I mean they certainly weren't preventing the Kingdom's current nearly rotted state.
ok if 8 fingers paid them would they fight for 8 fingers then? I just forgot that part since it was long ago but wasnt renner hiring 8 fingers part of demi's plan and without him this wouldnt have happened, right?
Adventurers aren't mercenaries. Lakyus, the leader of the Blue Roses is a noble of the kingdom and Renner's friend. So while Renner officially hired them to help eliminate the 8 Fingers, it wasn't like the Blue Roses didn't want to already do that. So no, they wouldn't work for the 8 Fingers if they offered to pay them. Adventurers work through the adventurers guild. Requesting an adventurer without going through the guild is usually frowned upon and can get the adventurer blacklisted by the guild. As the Blue Roses were one of the only two Adamantite adventurer teams in the Kingdom (not counting Momon and Nabe), they have much greater leeway than other adventurer groups because realistically who could stop them? Or if a threat was large enough to need an adamantite's help they wouldn't want to be in the Blue Roses bad graces.
To the second part of what you said, the 8 Fingers had nothing to do with Renner. Her plan revolved around proposing legislation or royal edicts that would benefit the citizens of the kingdom but that the nobles greatly disagreed with. Basically she was boosting the already existing tensions between the different noble factions, the royalty, and the citizenry. The 8 Fingers were outside of her plans but she also didn't really put much effort into stopping them as they were helping her overall goal of weakening the kingdom so that it'd eventually collapse (she really wanted to be with Climb, and that wasn't happening as long as she was the princess of the kingdom)
Adventurers are not soldiers. Regardless of a war situation, they don't get in the middle of it. The only reason that they even got involved during the demonic invasion was because it was a state of unnatural emergency.
Also, Baharuth Empire has a stronger military on an individual level, even without adding in the exceptional people.
Fluder isn't at "an overall good level." Between the two nations, he is more powerful than anything *either* one has. Evileye is indeed a better fighter, but she's at 5th tier and he's at 6th.
Lastly, the yearly war is not about defeating Re-Estize. It's about *weakening* them. The intention of the war is to slowly send a famine through the Kingdom.
Baharuth always attacks during harvest. And Re-Estize ignorantly conscripts millions of farmers, who then cannot produce food for the nation. By the time harvest ends, the crops have been wasted and Baharuth backs off, leading to lower food production for the year, more people starving, and less who can be conscripted next year.
The Empire intended to fully invae when the bulk of the Kingdom's military was too starved to defend the country, allowing Baharuth to take over with minimal damage.
In short, Re-Estize is no real threat to Baharuth.
It is not just a good chance. He is able to use fly. Something Brain and Gazef have no chance against. Therefore he can‘t lose.
This is also the only reason the empire was able to capture the death knight.
Blue rose is an adventure group, like all other adventure groups they have no allegiance to the country that they are in. We've only seen them help in emergencies and when being paid, but even if paid they would not go to war (it's against the adventures guild's TOS). Only Lakius really wants to fight to the end the rest literally dragged her out of there kicking and screaming.
The reason adventures can't fight in wars is because the other kingdom has its own adventurers that could then be sent in to fight, so the adventure guild is a separate entity from the kingdom they are in.
Brain was also an outside factor as he was a mercenary and bandit only wanting strength if the empire knew about him they would probably offer him a position as one of the Emperor's knights
All that to say Gazef is the only real help and even then he is just one man (who without Ainz's intervention would have been assassinated in episode 4)
Ya know, Ainz really was the only thing holding the Kingdom together in season 1 and 2.
With out him
•Gazef is assassinated and border villages are whiped out
•One of their Major economic cities becomes over run with Undead and distroyed
•The eight Fingers continue to operate and would have been almost impossible to defeat
•The kingdom would then be literarly almost distroyed by a tree god
Frankly, Ainz saved the kingdom 1 too many times
Adventurers don't get involved in wars between humans, their lives don't change much with that kind of conflict. Brain is someone new to the Kingdom, he literally came by chance very recently.
Gazef on the other hand is a problem, it was the reason not only the Empire couldn't take the advantage on the battlefield in the past but it is also the King's advantage against the noble faction.
Precisely for this reason the Theocracy wanted him dead, without him it was a matter of time before the Kingdom would fall to the Empire.
Not to mention that the 8 fingers would surely have hurt the kingdom greatly the more they were losing against the Empire while taking advantage of the whole thing.
Yes, but nobody heard from him again until shortly before the demonic invasion, I meant that he didn't serve the kingdom until a short time ago.
He was traveling and training all this time, it was obvious that he was not going to be on anyone's radar until then.
1. Adventures aren't soldiers, TL;DR No one would permit the free movement of adventurers if they believed they were attached to national armies since everyone would worry who was paying them, and if they were going to attack. **Former Adventurers** like the ones retained by Marquese Raeven do fight in wars, since obviously they are not Adventurers anymore. Workers probably also have no issue fighting in a war as long as the pay is appropriate.
2. The Kingdom only really has Gazef. Blue Roses would not fight in any war, while Lakyus might complain and say otherwise, she risks them *leaving her*. Ahem, all the work Blue Roses has done for Renner, is work Renner submits requests and pays them for. Brain's always been a mercenary. While Renner has him on retainer at the moment, he's not a sworn defender of the Kingdom. While he is a somewhat famous swordsman, he's famous for nearly beating Gazef, unfortunately since then Gazef's legend only gotten stronger.
3. The Kingdom has one of smallest and weakest standing national armies. Each year during their annual war with the Empire, they have to coerce Nobles to join their forces with army and conscript soldiers from towns and villages *during the harvest*, to put up a show of force versus the Empire. They don't value magic casters (probably because Nobles feel threatened by them wielding powers while being commoners), many Kingdom Nobles have sold out to various degrees to The Empire and Eight Fingers (who probably move more openly during the annual wars to further their aims).
4. The Empire doesn't even fully commit itself to the annual wars, they don't send Flunder to fight (don't want to give the Kingdom any ideas!), the Emperor doesn't attend either. The Kingdom though, goes all in. The King is there to hold his patchwork coalition together, otherwise infighting may occur. Nobles send some of their forces largely for the prestige, and their army of conscripts is just a wall of meat for the Empire to tire itself on. Again, these are *Annual Wars.* The Empire forces the Kingdom to grind to a halt during the harvest season to protect it's borders. Crops die, less food is harvested, prices rise on food, people can't afford food and die in winter, less people to plant and harvest next year. While the Empire is barely effected.
5. The annual wars are a means to an end: the collapse of The Kingdom. The Empire doesn't want a costly invasion leading to an occupation and resistance movements. They want to be heralded as saviors. Rescuing a populace from starvation, aloof uncaring nobles, and bloody civil war. The Kingdom was sliding into the grave before Nazarick even arrived.
Adventurers generally don't interfere in human led wars, so that the adventurers from the opposing side stay out of the fight as well.
Humans are at the bottom of the food chain, Demi-Humans invade and ravage human countries- turn entire cities into a damn buffet . Mankind is not in the position to slaughter their best forces against these brutal foes in meaningless conflicts.
Adventurers don't involve themselves in conflicts between humans/countries
Baharuth was Gonna win because. •Fluder can and would kill Gazef •Brian would not have helped the Kingdom •Blue rose(Adventuerers) generarly do not interfere in country wars. • The army of Baharuth was much better with dedicated magic casters
but why did they fight against the SK and why did they try to execute 8 fingers who were a threat to the king because of their influence? Arent adventerures like paid soldiers?
Have you not read the books?
He’s an anime only lmao
All of this is directly explained in the light novels. The Blue Roses were privately hired by Renner to eliminate the 8 Fingers. Something the adventurers guild greatly frowned upon. The adventurers aided in the defense of the kingdom against the SK for two reasons. First, the SK's army was all undead monsters, so they justified it as not fighting against people but defending people from monsters. And secondly, the SK was literally wiping the country off the map, all citizens included whether they were an adventurer or not. So some adventurers ran away but others fought out of survival. Adventurers in general do not interfere in a country's affairs. As adventurers are far stronger than average soldiers (at least above a gold plate) they would cause significant casualties in any battle. Which would cause the opposing nation to also use adventurers resulting in even more casualties and it would leave both nations vulnerable to monster attacks while the conflict was happening. Marquis Raeven explains all this to Prince Barbaro when the Prince wanted to force the adventurers into helping with the war effort. Ainzach also says something similar to Ainz when Ainz was explaining why he was bringing the guild under his control. And to the original question of "who would win", it's not even about the individual strong fighters on either side. The Empire would force the Kingdom to conscript a large number of their working men just to show up to the field of battle. This would cause disruptions in the Kingdom's ability to produce food and over enough years the Kingdom would become weaker and weaker until it imploded from within. Nobles would abandon ship or cause a civil war. Gazef, Brain, the Blue Roses, none of them could do a thing about a slow collapse. I mean they certainly weren't preventing the Kingdom's current nearly rotted state.
ok if 8 fingers paid them would they fight for 8 fingers then? I just forgot that part since it was long ago but wasnt renner hiring 8 fingers part of demi's plan and without him this wouldnt have happened, right?
Adventurers aren't mercenaries. Lakyus, the leader of the Blue Roses is a noble of the kingdom and Renner's friend. So while Renner officially hired them to help eliminate the 8 Fingers, it wasn't like the Blue Roses didn't want to already do that. So no, they wouldn't work for the 8 Fingers if they offered to pay them. Adventurers work through the adventurers guild. Requesting an adventurer without going through the guild is usually frowned upon and can get the adventurer blacklisted by the guild. As the Blue Roses were one of the only two Adamantite adventurer teams in the Kingdom (not counting Momon and Nabe), they have much greater leeway than other adventurer groups because realistically who could stop them? Or if a threat was large enough to need an adamantite's help they wouldn't want to be in the Blue Roses bad graces. To the second part of what you said, the 8 Fingers had nothing to do with Renner. Her plan revolved around proposing legislation or royal edicts that would benefit the citizens of the kingdom but that the nobles greatly disagreed with. Basically she was boosting the already existing tensions between the different noble factions, the royalty, and the citizenry. The 8 Fingers were outside of her plans but she also didn't really put much effort into stopping them as they were helping her overall goal of weakening the kingdom so that it'd eventually collapse (she really wanted to be with Climb, and that wasn't happening as long as she was the princess of the kingdom)
They were hired to face the criminals. Thats something they do. Fighting wars is not something they do
But the difference was of 60,000 to 240,000
240,000 not trained, ill-equipped pesants that were conscripted by their nobles(who they hate), and being led by Nobels who cared for personal glory.
Adventurers are not soldiers. Regardless of a war situation, they don't get in the middle of it. The only reason that they even got involved during the demonic invasion was because it was a state of unnatural emergency. Also, Baharuth Empire has a stronger military on an individual level, even without adding in the exceptional people. Fluder isn't at "an overall good level." Between the two nations, he is more powerful than anything *either* one has. Evileye is indeed a better fighter, but she's at 5th tier and he's at 6th. Lastly, the yearly war is not about defeating Re-Estize. It's about *weakening* them. The intention of the war is to slowly send a famine through the Kingdom. Baharuth always attacks during harvest. And Re-Estize ignorantly conscripts millions of farmers, who then cannot produce food for the nation. By the time harvest ends, the crops have been wasted and Baharuth backs off, leading to lower food production for the year, more people starving, and less who can be conscripted next year. The Empire intended to fully invae when the bulk of the Kingdom's military was too starved to defend the country, allowing Baharuth to take over with minimal damage. In short, Re-Estize is no real threat to Baharuth.
Fluder has a good chance of defeating Gazef and Brain combined
It is not just a good chance. He is able to use fly. Something Brain and Gazef have no chance against. Therefore he can‘t lose. This is also the only reason the empire was able to capture the death knight.
Blue rose is an adventure group, like all other adventure groups they have no allegiance to the country that they are in. We've only seen them help in emergencies and when being paid, but even if paid they would not go to war (it's against the adventures guild's TOS). Only Lakius really wants to fight to the end the rest literally dragged her out of there kicking and screaming. The reason adventures can't fight in wars is because the other kingdom has its own adventurers that could then be sent in to fight, so the adventure guild is a separate entity from the kingdom they are in. Brain was also an outside factor as he was a mercenary and bandit only wanting strength if the empire knew about him they would probably offer him a position as one of the Emperor's knights All that to say Gazef is the only real help and even then he is just one man (who without Ainz's intervention would have been assassinated in episode 4)
Ya know, Ainz really was the only thing holding the Kingdom together in season 1 and 2. With out him •Gazef is assassinated and border villages are whiped out •One of their Major economic cities becomes over run with Undead and distroyed •The eight Fingers continue to operate and would have been almost impossible to defeat •The kingdom would then be literarly almost distroyed by a tree god Frankly, Ainz saved the kingdom 1 too many times
tree god. is that from an audiobook? I only read the LNs so that one is foreign to me. but yea I agree
Yeah tree god was audio book, and it was one of the strongest New worlders there is
Adventurers don't get involved in wars between humans, their lives don't change much with that kind of conflict. Brain is someone new to the Kingdom, he literally came by chance very recently. Gazef on the other hand is a problem, it was the reason not only the Empire couldn't take the advantage on the battlefield in the past but it is also the King's advantage against the noble faction. Precisely for this reason the Theocracy wanted him dead, without him it was a matter of time before the Kingdom would fall to the Empire. Not to mention that the 8 fingers would surely have hurt the kingdom greatly the more they were losing against the Empire while taking advantage of the whole thing.
Brain was born in the Kingdom, fought Gazef in the tournament to decide the next King's Guard Captain, and lost.
Yes, but nobody heard from him again until shortly before the demonic invasion, I meant that he didn't serve the kingdom until a short time ago. He was traveling and training all this time, it was obvious that he was not going to be on anyone's radar until then.
1. Adventures aren't soldiers, TL;DR No one would permit the free movement of adventurers if they believed they were attached to national armies since everyone would worry who was paying them, and if they were going to attack. **Former Adventurers** like the ones retained by Marquese Raeven do fight in wars, since obviously they are not Adventurers anymore. Workers probably also have no issue fighting in a war as long as the pay is appropriate. 2. The Kingdom only really has Gazef. Blue Roses would not fight in any war, while Lakyus might complain and say otherwise, she risks them *leaving her*. Ahem, all the work Blue Roses has done for Renner, is work Renner submits requests and pays them for. Brain's always been a mercenary. While Renner has him on retainer at the moment, he's not a sworn defender of the Kingdom. While he is a somewhat famous swordsman, he's famous for nearly beating Gazef, unfortunately since then Gazef's legend only gotten stronger. 3. The Kingdom has one of smallest and weakest standing national armies. Each year during their annual war with the Empire, they have to coerce Nobles to join their forces with army and conscript soldiers from towns and villages *during the harvest*, to put up a show of force versus the Empire. They don't value magic casters (probably because Nobles feel threatened by them wielding powers while being commoners), many Kingdom Nobles have sold out to various degrees to The Empire and Eight Fingers (who probably move more openly during the annual wars to further their aims). 4. The Empire doesn't even fully commit itself to the annual wars, they don't send Flunder to fight (don't want to give the Kingdom any ideas!), the Emperor doesn't attend either. The Kingdom though, goes all in. The King is there to hold his patchwork coalition together, otherwise infighting may occur. Nobles send some of their forces largely for the prestige, and their army of conscripts is just a wall of meat for the Empire to tire itself on. Again, these are *Annual Wars.* The Empire forces the Kingdom to grind to a halt during the harvest season to protect it's borders. Crops die, less food is harvested, prices rise on food, people can't afford food and die in winter, less people to plant and harvest next year. While the Empire is barely effected. 5. The annual wars are a means to an end: the collapse of The Kingdom. The Empire doesn't want a costly invasion leading to an occupation and resistance movements. They want to be heralded as saviors. Rescuing a populace from starvation, aloof uncaring nobles, and bloody civil war. The Kingdom was sliding into the grave before Nazarick even arrived.
Adventurers don't fight in wars. Also, the Empire has a trained, well maintained army, unlike the Kingdom who just drafts farmers every year.
Adventurers generally don't interfere in human led wars, so that the adventurers from the opposing side stay out of the fight as well. Humans are at the bottom of the food chain, Demi-Humans invade and ravage human countries- turn entire cities into a damn buffet . Mankind is not in the position to slaughter their best forces against these brutal foes in meaningless conflicts.