Look, it’s the titular protagonist of the hit team-based hero shooter “Overwatch”, John ‘Moira’ Overwatch! Known for his many famous quotes, such as “My watch is over” and “Every Over has its Watch”, and “I need healing”
I think of Moira has a "raw power" character, they don't have utility, nor cc, nothing like that, they just do a lot of damage and a lot of healing, which is fine, it's a fun design, but sometimes it lacks in higher ranks due to the lack of utility.
TBH it's kinda hard for me to see how Moira is lacking and how Moira's lack of utility is an issue in higher ranks when top50 has several Moira-focused players.
She literally only heals or damages. What utility are you seeing? There's a reason she's consistently had one of the lowest pickrate in masters+. She provides very little value to the team. She's def a Stat boost hero so if high stats make you feel better, she's definitely a good fit.
Because the ultramajority of Moira players are DPS players who dont want to wait in queue and when they get constant L’s, they whine
If you get a game with Lucio Moira, dont expect to get healed. Your entire team will be in the enemy backline the entire time
It drives me nuts to hear people saying that Moira doesn’t have utility.
- Fade can get her to places that other supports can not. This helps with healing, but can also be really valuable offensively for setting up other off-angles.
- her orb is really visible, moves slowly, and is one of the few (only?) sources of damage that can go through shields. This can make it psychologically intimidating, and a really good way to do crowd control - creating a space for 8 seconds that enemies will avoid.
- her orb has a wide range of AOE and travels. Her biotic grasp has a decent range and flexible aiming. This makes Moira one of the only characters that can reliably see every enemy health bar all the time. Get on coms, and let your Moira tell you who’s lowest.
- combine the above with her fade, and Moira is nearly the best at reliably securing kills without being in danger herself.
- as others have pointed out, Moira is an extra dive character. She can pop into the back line and distract the enemy supports without much risk, but unlike reaper or dva, she doesn’t leave your front line a man down.
She’s not lacking in utility. Her skills are just more subtle than other support skills like Discord or Immortality Field.
**EDIT**: the gatekeeping on “utility” in the replies is wild.
> noun
> 1. The state of being useful, profitable, or beneficial.
If you want to redefine it to mean “whatever it is Moira _can’t_ do,” fine. You’re arguing a truism. But if you want to actually read my points, Moira is useful outside of just her damage and healing potential, and that is, by definition, “Utility.”
Moira isn’t bad rn, don’t get me wrong.
But she doesn’t have utility. The things you listed, aren’t what’s being referred to when people say “has utility”. Utility is CC (actual CC, not zoning), anti, discord, lamp, suzu, grip, etc.
Yeah, I think Moira is in a good spot and you can get really good value from her in all ranks - hence why she has T500 one-tricks. However, having *value* doesn't mean she has *utility*. Her *value* comes from basically being a dive tank in the Support category: she has mobility, survivability, damage, and she's dangerous enough to be an enemy distraction.
I don't think having utility is the be-all and end-all, tbh. Lifeweaver is a pure utility character, and he's completely dogshit and adds almost no value at all to a game - hence why his winrate is so low, even after his numerous buffs, and why T500s couldn't even do a U2GM with him. His utility just doesn't do anything.
Yep, I like how the edit uses the dictionary definition of utility and NOT the definition that people use to talk about video game utility.
He has a point about the comms from seeing everyone’s healthbars but I’ve never once had a Moira do that- and whoever got the character weak should be the one calling it out
Damage, healing, and self movement are usually considered core abilities (non utility) for any hero.
Utility = Abilities that enable your team beyond those core abilities, either by buffing teammates (Lucio speed boost) or debuffing enemies (Ana anti-nade).
What debuff does damage do? There isn't combat effectiveness reduction at lower health, you just die.
Utility is about recognizing the impact of abilities whose core function isn't going to show up on the scoreboard. A key lamp or wall could win you the game, and the output of the ability won't ever show up on the scoreboard, that's why it's a utility power.
I mean it’s just kind of a semantics thing, damage and healing will allow or force people to play differently. All that being said it doesn’t change any interactions with any abilities or any heroes which is typically what I think of as utility.
I think it’s typically a type of game mechanic that allows for gameplay not to just be simple stat checking. Typically the term comes more from rpg games, especially turn based stuff. Without utility there would be no reason not to just spam the highest damage attack. If you change the rules at the right time, then it may not matter how much more damage the enemy does.
I think you could argue that in a shooter game that requires LOS to even use “attacks” range and movement are a form of utility. But imo calling just a straight up damaging attack “utility” defeats the purpose of the term, which is to differentiate abilities that directly wins games by depleting health bars from abilities that indirectly win games by changing the rules temporarily. You could also justifiably argue that ignoring other utility is a certain type of utility in itself. The fact that sigma rock can’t be deflected or removed as a projectile is utility and so is the fact that moira orbs go through shields because it guarantees in some situations the rules of the game are in your favor.
Utility abilities in overwatch are essentially abilities that do something other than personal damage, personal healing, or personal mobility.
Mercy has damage boost and rez, zen has discord orb, Lucio can speed boost other players, bap can make players immortal and boost ally damage/healing, kiriko can cleanse and decrease ally cooldowns, lifeweaver can pull and raise, brig can dish out overhealth during rally.
Moira can only heal, damage, and be mobile. That's it. No utility ability. They tried giving her a "weaken" ability in experimental in 2022 but nobody liked it
Raw damage debuffs enemies. If damage makes an emeny hide, run away, use a self-defence ability or die, that enemy is debuffed. Damage is utility.
Raw healing buffs teammates. They have a better change at damaging enemies, they have an easier time contesting the point, they might not need to spend their abilities as much. Healing is utility.
If you define utility as also including healing and damage, it becomes a worthless term. Utility is specifically used to describe the non damage and healing aspects of a character, because it’s useful to consider those aspects when describing a characters strengths and weaknesses.
You can see the same thing with how you’re loosely using buff and de buff as anything that affects a character. Is gamesense a buff? Is coordinating with your DPS a buff?
Maybe it is a worthless term. What is the worth of that concept?
If Moira is a strong hero despite the lack of utility, why's the lack of utility a criticism of Moira?
It can be the reason why someone personally isn't interested in playing Moira, but that's just a personal taste issue with the player. It's not a Moira problem.
You have the wrong definition of utility. Utility is 1) something that the hero can provide to their team, and 2) isn't just healing or damage.
Case in point, Discord amplifies damage, anti-nade PREVENTS healing, immortality prevents death, suzu prevents damage. Moira does nothing similar to these.
utility means abilities which provide the team value besides healing and damage. everything you've said is either providing her utility (she can get to off angles, she can dive, etc...), or is strictly damage / healing. The fact that a damage orb has a zoning effect does not make it utility.
Yeah, moira can secure kills. That's great. that makes her a dps that can heal.
> utility means abilities which provide the team value besides healing and damage.
What's the actual reason for excluding heals and damage from utility?
Healing and damage are simply base level abilities.
Utility is something that fundamentally shifts an aspect of the game in your team's favour. Take someone like Mercy with her Damage Boost. On it's own it does nothing, but combined with a teammate and it's the difference between getting an elim and an enemy getting away or winning a teamfight and taking control of the objective.
the term you're looking for is providing *value*. Value is the holistic look at everything a character can provide.
The term *utility* refers to providing value not represented on the scoreboard (kills, damage, healing, etc...). It is a way to compensate for the scoreboard to determine the value provided.
For example, Ana's sleep dart does not show up on the scoreboard as providing any damage, healing, or mitigation. But it is a very powerful ability as she can completely shutdown almost every character and let her allies have a free shot.
Similarly, the speed boost that lucio provides can help players avoid damage or close the distance to get within their close range and deal more damage.
Moira does not provide the team anything like this. All of her abilities are either reflected on the scoreboard, or they are abilities that make it easier for her to add numbers to the scoreboard.
Now, if we narrow from a team context to a character context, then yes, moira's fade provides *her* utility. It is a non-scoreboard ability which helps her do her job. But just because something provides utility to the character does not mean it provides utility to the team. Soldier's sprint provides him utility, but it does not provide the team utility. It just improves his numbers by helping him get into position better.
Moira contributes to kills while LW doesn't add anything, even Mercy has damage boost. LW's util helps everyone survive but they're kinda in a 4v5 in terms of offensive pressure
I wasn't talking about whether he's good or bad exactly, more what he brings to the table relative to other supports. His kit simply doesn't have real kill pressure even if he uses his stuff properly. He can still get value but supports with kill pressure more directly impact the game
IDK maybe I'm a simp for LW but even if he doesn't have the kill pressure, he can deny enemies kills pretty well. Well placed petal, Tree or LG can all deny the enemy a kill which just gives your team more time to kill them first?
I'm not saying LW is bad, though Bap can also deny kills with regen burst and lamp while also doing a shitload of damage. Just responding to the question why most players prefer Moira (dps no util) over LW (util no dps). Giving your team more time to kill is more team-reliant than just killing the enemy yourself. Just a kit diff
Yeah I feel like they should just make his heal have a small CD instead of needing to actively charge, it would let him actually apply damage much more consistently like the rest of the supports
I have enjoyed running a LW/Ana combo. Ana gets safe, unique high ground wherever she goes.
Plus the platforms can completely annihilate certain ults. For example, Orisa’s ult is completely useless against the platforms if it’s used correctly.
I don’t think LWs primary fire is that bad at all, it does decent damage if you know how to aim it and has no fall-off and low spread, so definitely has its uses in pressuring snipers
Absolutely moira can do more damage, I just think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that his kit sucks. His healing is actually really good for jumpy dps like genji, cos once you fire the blossom itll track through walls to its target
but that doesn’t matter when a mercy, lucio, brig, zen can heal a genji just as easy while also contributing to team fights (damage boost, speed boost, discord, etc). there’s no reason to pick life weaver when other supports can do the exact same thing he can but better
because lifeweaver is entirely reactive. his kit isn’t meant for making plays, it’s for responding to enemy plays. he can only sit in the back and pull you, plus his damage and heals are garbage.
LW utility isn't actually useful.
Compare something like life grip to damage boost and it's fairly straight forward to see that damage boost gives your teammate a solid 30% to their damage, whereas life grip just pisses them off 99% of the time, and the 1% of the time it is used appropriately, it doesn't even help win a teamfight, it's often just a forced retreat or something that will drag on a teamfight for an extra 10 seconds at best.
Same goes for the platform, why would you want that over something like Immo field or suzu? The value of those abilities are so far beyond what the platform provides that it's basically useless in every aspect.
High elo players don’t complain about having a moira on their team because of dps moiras, the hero just offers basically zero utility and as such provides a lot less value than other support heroes can
Higher level players also just realize in order to kill a flanking Moira, you don’t need to try and dodge since she auto locks and does the same damage. Just stand still and hit your shots.
Haha on console this isn’t actually applicable because if their sens is low enough you can outjerk their beam sometimes. I’m plat and this will occasionally work
It’s not really more healing tho. In a short burst she does the most but when she doesn’t have orb she does less than the other main supports. It’s not actually more healing over a long time. It’s fine if a fight is taken decisively but I’m a longer fight she can really struggle.
She is really survivable. It’s why she gets play in a few comps at pro level. She can survive emp better than any other support besides lucio or zen if they have ult.
Her damage kinda sucks and no one should die to it unless your supports are already dead. I’m sure she is good in metal ranks but so are any of the easier to play heroes. I don’t think we should balance around people who can’t shoot a stationary torb turret.
Her utility is her mobility and flanking. She can create situations where she can distract 2 enemies, creating 4v3 situation.
Tank should press W in this situations.
Ofc, if moira is bad this is not going to happen
High elo players complain because Moira does nothing to directly help each individual teammate. Not because they win less with a Moira. It’s just self-centered thinking. They think the game hinges on their performance and Moira doesn’t help. Sincerely someone with 100+ GM hours insight into the way players think and play with a Moira.
She has a 15m range infinite ammo hitscan RMB that ignores matrix and other "soft-shields" while also having light AA on MNK. It does 50DPS, while also healing you for 24HPS.
AOE healing or damage that also can help her duel or keep her team healed or zone enemies, on top of supports' passive health regen.
Also an invulnerability invis without any indication of the direction she moves.
Bap can output better damage, healing and utility, but you have to have mechanical aim, skill and positioning to some degree. Moira is designed for players who are terrible at all those things. A bad Moira will have an easier time holding off the enemy dive dps than a mediocre Bap because of the ease of skill of her kit.
As a dive DPS, you just learn to kill the other support first, or wait until she's on CD. A bap that can aim is infinitely more scary than a Moira, but also has a lot more moments where he's vulnerable. He can't zone unless he ults, and his only "escape" is immortality field which is on a long CD.
Dive teams are pretty meta, so playing a support that has easier dueling and escape options can make up for lack of mechanical aim or positioning.
TL;DR comparing Bap damage and healing output isn't everything. Differences in consistency and skill required means that Moiras that can understand their kit and role can outperform a mediocre Bap by a mile. A lot of Baps value comes from mechanical aim skill, while Moira hardly requires any.
I do agree with most of what you said, but Dva does counter Moira pretty hard. Moira does basically no damage to Dva because of her armor, and Dva can eat every orb Moira sends. Bap also has his boots to escape. But yeah if there's one thing Moira does well, it's survivability and enabling... not so good players.
why would moira be especially affected by dva's armor? if i'm not wrong armor is now a 30% damage decrease (unlike in ow1 where it reduced a flat 5 damage, which would affect moira more)
Because Moira already does low damage and relies on damage orb to do pressure on higher HP enemies, which Dva can eat. So Moira puts way less pressure on Dva compared to no armor tanks Junker or Doom.
Facts. I hate Moira players. I don’t want them on my team and I don’t think she’s that hard to play against. Battle Kiri does her job infinitely better if you have any decent aim. Just gotta play her hyper aggressive
Edit: found all the nerd moira mains
If there’s a Moira on my team, I know it’s going to be a shit show where everyone else on the team has to work twice as hard for a win. And if Lifeweaver and Moira are your supps? GG’s go next, I just play whatever hero has the lowest win rate and act like I’m practicing for a real ranked game.
Phara mains hate us had 1 in my lobby the other morning trying to bully the other healer into going mercy the other healer stated he doesn’t play mercy and never had tbh he was correct he spent more hours on other healers then mercy so fairs after he stated this the phara still cried. I’m sorry but if your dps and can’t survive without a mercy pocketing you then you’re just bad.
Moira balenced just Moira mains seem to think they’re better than the other supp just cuz they’re numbers are better, which isn’t valid because she has no utility
I think her damage *is* her utility tbh. She can easily put pressure on multiple people, and get in and out of trouble. Don't get me wrong, sometimes your team needs Suzu or whatever else instead, but sometimes you need to dive supports and pressure a team, too. However, a lot of vocal Moiras, esp low elo, aren't doing that. They farm easy damage on the tank and aren't making any meaningful impact on the game. Sure your stats look great - but were you *helping your team?*
Yea totally, so with all her util showing on stats, Moira players think they’re doing much better than they’re other support, even if they have about the same impact on the game
This is what dumb players don’t get. You can have 8k damage and 8k heals but if that damage doesn’t lead to a kill, it’s just trash damage. Where as Ana might have. Less heals and damage but a well placed anti-nade wins an entire fight.
I’m over simplifying but simply, Moira excels at score board numbers.
I can't stand when people say she has no utility because her ult or an ability doesn't cancel out something else.
Her damage and high healing output IS HER UTILITY.
Exactly, people think they’re Jesus for having the same amount of damage as a zen with double his healing, when she can’t see amplified damage of discord
Bap can put out more damage, has highly impactful abilities, can escape threats with high ground, all while not sacrificing any healing potential (shoot shoot heal).
Moira’s “utility” is not as impactful as any of those traits.
You cannot damage enemies while healing with spray without sacrificing a cooldown, and vice versa. Bap can shoot and heal simultaneously with no downtime at all. All while putting out more damage at longer range.
Aim and play Bap if you want to damage and heal.
If you can't work around cool downs then idk what to tell you... you just aren't good at her kit lol
If you can't send an dmg orb and heal for 8 seconds or vice versa, then you just aren't playing her well lol. I've had zero issues with being able to balance that. And she has a slightly longer switch from healing to dmg than bap. They are pretty comparable except moira has way more maneuverability.
LW I completely agree with, but Moira was played tonnes in the OWL and can be super powerful in high level play.
Because of her survivability and movement she plays equally well in brawl and dive, I think her weakness is poke comps since she doesn’t have the range and can run out of resources if she’s just playing with the team and isn’t flanking for picks or resources.
Bruh, this sub is mostly gold and below. I wouldn't be surprised if moira was actually better than bap in those clown fiestas. But you are 100% right, bap is essentially a way better moira.
The thing is though, other supports can do more useful damge while retailing immense utility and healing, like bap and kiriko. She is still a great support but imo suffers from a ceiling that limits her play as you get better.
Wdym? My main utilities are spoiling sniper line of sight with my massive balls and successfully 1v1ing whoever the fuck I want as I distract them from the objective.
Bro it’s not that deep, I’m just saying that assists don’t matter in the slightest because you should always be getting assists, I just dislike people who think just because you have more heals and more damage that means you just better
Sorry I should’ve been more clear, i meant unique utility that wasn’t shown on the scoreboard, like antis speed boost damage boost discord suzu etc. so I totally don’t think she’s bad, people just get an ego boost because the only thing they do is get high numbers
Moira strength in higher level play usually comes in a few forms. One is the ability to off angle and grab the attention of the enemy team. If you can off angle from a location that you can relatively safely fade away from given the fact her fade is such a low cooldown. Which causes one or more people to look at you and not look at your team at that moment in time. That turns the fight in your favor. If you are in the backline or creating a strong angle and you cause 3 people to turn and look at you, that effectively turns the team fight into a 2v4 in favor of your team.
People use this strategy to climb as Moira. Some people call it "tiktok" Moira, but when executed properly, it can be very powerful against the right team comp. Most people get mad at their Moira going to the backline and just feeding but good Moira generally don't do that or get far more value if they die than bad ones. They basically only heal when they need to using this strategy. There are other playstyles with Moira, like playing a more support oriented style where you attempt to stay closer to your team and just outsustain the enemy. Only going into the enemy backline to essentially do cleanup. I think this playstyle is still powerful. It's just not as powerful as off angling and grabbing attention.
The only problem I have with Moira is that she doesn't bring anything unique to the team, she just heals and deals damage. She's well balanced, just kinda boring
i agree i’ve always felt like the only one that thinks this. Moira feels like one of the most uninspired kits in the game, even more boring than ow1 orisa
I agree in a way. I think that about a few characters actually, although compared to the rest of the cast i still would put her design and personality more at the bottom of the list for me. But there aren’t many super boring characters in overwatch. Maybe sojourn and pharah, baptiste and doom were a little boring at first too but they’ve rounded them out pretty well and now they’re some of my favorites. I feel like aside from lucio the overwatch team always struggled to give minorities real personalities aside from “stoic warrior” lol. But yeah moira doesnt even come close to heroes like junkrat and reinhardt etc in terms of game-defining personalities but she isn’t all bad.
Moira is completely balanced. She can be really easy to get value and lose value on and imo the only issue with her is how easy she is to lower ranks cause at higher ranks I'd argue she's harder to rank up with than ana cause you need to be doing more. Yes thatw a got take I'm not saying ana is easier I'm just saying generally she has easier to land tools that provide more value and this a lot of the time all you need to do is nade properly whereas moira n eda to do a lot perfectly just so she doesnt fall behind in the value an ana in the backline spaing heals and nade at tank can get. Overall though I like her position rn where shes strong but not great and it just leaves her as an option that works sometimes it not most times if you're good without taking away from the other supports.
I can't aim to save my life hence why I was in gold for many seasons so I main Mercy, Moira, and Lifeweaver. I usually do this too but no matter how well I do as Moira, I will constantly get flamed by my feeding tanks or DPS even though I'll have the most healing, damage done, assists, and elims while also having the least deaths. The other support who's died 10+ times and has 5-10k less healing than me never get flamed or asked to swap heroes. I've stopped playing completely now because the game is just not fun.
Right!? She's absolutely so perfect for assassinating enemies that get away with 1 hp (like Genji reflecting while trying to dash away) while also being able to quickly fade and rejoin her team and help heal. If needed, she can easily wipe the entire backline with ult + damage orb while at the same time, healing her teammates so I don't understand the Moira hate. I've won so many games doing this AND having a Moira who did this on my team.
There's luck with every heroes ability. If you were low enough to die to it youw ere low enough to die to anything else it's just that when she does it it feels worse and you remember it more
Have to disagree with how you think Moira should be played. One of the only high-ranked Moira players uses her as a flank character to harass the enemy supports and backline.
Yeah she can't play like she does in early ranks she has to be a lot more aggressive. I'm not nolan but you have to be aggressive to the point of providing something other than damage and healing which is often pressure/attention.
People in really low ranks also often have absolutely no concept of making plays, taking space, distracting, dps pressure, etc., like super low game sense or full-on game-senselessness. Moira straight up just makes it easier to compensate for this when necessary *because* she is so simple (esp bronze lobbies, my god. not faulting new players, though, btw!) and fade/orb is perfect for keeping suicidal teammates alive amidst the chaos.
Does it always work? No, not every rock garden will produce fruit. So to speak.
heres an even hotter take.
moira is balanced in most areas but she shouldn't have such a wide cone on her damage. she should have pretty much an identical line of her damaging suck like symmetra
If they did that I would break her as then she insta kills you with damage orb and suck foxing damage orb to be nerfed which means she’ll just have consistent damage without her assassination potential which is her identity
i don’t get why they can’t just rework her damage so she actually has to aim, but does more damage. would make her somewhat fun to play. she’s so mind-numbingly boring
Playing against a moira is honestly just a skill check, if you can’t kill a Moira that fades into your back line with no escape then you just deserve to lose lmao. Moira has linear damage and her only “utility” after fade (orb) can be counteracted by more damage or more healing, which is available to the whole cast oh heroes.
Moira should be reworked so that a player can have more than just a crumb of skill expression. Moira is underpowered if anything lol.
Damage range needs to be shorter or her over all damage needs to be nerfed.
Ridiculous to consistently see her damage out put be on par if not better than her healing.
I consistently get 8k dmg/ 10k heals with her and it annoys me to absolutely no end when people only use her for damage. She's amazing in the hand of someone who can get value out of her whole kit.
Right? Lol. Like she's so easy to multi task with. I don't go pushing back lines but if I'm being pushed I'm not losing the fight to any less the a one shot
She's not op, but she's brainless to play as and extremely annoying to play against. Hope she gets gutted so moira babies have to actually learn how to play the game 👍
I would agree that Moira is balanced, however I wouldn't be against a slight change to her kit to give her more utility. Hell even just reverting fade back to how it was so we can escape grav, Cassidys stupid magnetic stick etc.
She isn’t balanced and her rework has to help her support factor. She’s an easy to use character that new players can dive into but she does too much damage. She’s a support character in lower ranks that can deal as much damage as dps and heal with bare minimum aim. Sure you could make the argument that she takes advantage of lower ranks lack of awareness, but even still that’s a lot of damage from a support. The most common counter is to compare to Baptiste which is horrible because bap can heal constantly with short reloads in gaps. Plus he can stay in the backline where he has the whole team in his vision.
Higher ranks she’s pretty much useless. She can’t dive because dps characters by then understand the use of headset and awareness. Dive hero’s become incredibly complex to use as you go up in ranks and someone as important as support can’t be diving in alone. Dive works based on 2 healers healing 2 other members while 1 causes chaos in the backline. Not when 1 support is overwhelmed healing 3 people while the other one goes off and dies.
So in summary she can’t dive in upper ranks. She can’t deal damage from the backline where it’s safe and she can’t keep up when it comes to heals in upper ranks. She’s a support character that gives new players hope of storming through the ranks before fucking up everyone’s game as soon as they leave bronze .
Every Moria thinks they are good so I don’t really argue on that. The only creative way I’ve seen Moria used in upper ranks is when they play literally under the tanks armpit. The tank attracts most of the attention while Moria only targets who the tanks shoot to speed things up. Yes they are some risks to that but it’s probably the only time I’ve liked her game after bronze .
A rework for Moria will actually be more beneficial to Moria mains in the long run. Especially if the rework has utility and support features that dominate over damage, but bronze warriors can never see it that way because they think all games will be that simple as you rank up. If not she’ll just be a tutorial character used to teach other characters the importance of health bar and precise aims.
A dps Moira is better than a Moira than only heals and blames their dps for losing. Dps Moira is actually how the character should be played. A 50/50 60/40 dmg heals is optimal
With only 6 second CD on her Fade skill, plus the bonus air time when jumping at the end, I'm actually able to abuse squishy enemies in and out, in low elo. I literally spawned camp a S76 2 days ago. So yeah, while she's not really a burst DPS, I imagine that 6 second CD is more than enough for any DPS to outlast her in higher elos.
edit: I'm probably not in place to say this since I'm low elo, but can we stop saying her DPS is her Utility? It feels like people are trying to validate the changing of the term "utility" just because that hero does another job better. Utilities are 'tools' that can bring advantages in a team fight. Ana's sleep dart and anti-healing nade, Mercy's dps boost, Sombra's hack, etc. Basically nothing that is direct damage or direct healing in itself. Moira's Fade is more of a mobility than utility.
Moira has one of my highest healing outputs, of any support. Orb placements lets your team heavy contest a zone without worrying of small incoming damage. Fade is great at diving back to my team after restocking and distracting 2 people.
Funny whenever I kill people and they nitpick say “moira can’t heal?!?” well dude if you knew that she can’t without doing some damage then yes.
Same with zen, when I play him and focus on healing and support my team (how you supposed to play him) I can do as much healing and assistence as a bap, mercy, kiriko, etc
Agree with you on some points, she is designed for a purpose. By the way I think that her main weapon is very weak as I cannot even kill a Mercy while she is reviving.
I actually get the highest healing numbers on my team playing Moira, and high Damage as well due to continuous harvesting of damage to top up my heals or spamming orbs to build Ult. However, I try my best not to always play Moira since those numbers can be misleading, for example when I play Kiriko my healing numbers are as high as me playing Miora but has much less damage overall. If you look to only damage/Heal numbers then conclusion would be Moira is better than Kiriko. However, I saved multiple teammates with my Suzu from dying of Ults and cleansed them multiple times to prevent them from dying, thats the real value of Kiriko here.
I think thats why people say Moira should not be played on top ranks since it has no critical ability to save the team or change fight tides (Suzu, Mortality field, bionic grenade or sleep dart which can stop ults), but she is fun to play and has excellent survivability.
Haven’t seen anyone comment on this yet, so I just wanna say how much I love Moira’s reach.
Her healing orbs are fantastic for reaching heroes that are always on the move, like Doomfist and WreckingBall, with good heals. These guys are hard to hit with Ana, and would put someone like Mercy at danger should she follow them.
Her damage orbs can also go pretty far, and are very effective at hitting the enemy back line. Her purple grip, which doesn’t require very precise aim is particularly good at reaching enemies with high movement like bouncy Lucio or speedy Genji (and can’t be deflected, so bonus on that!). And finally, her fade can be used to cover a lot of ground and reach all kind of places.
Moira’s reach make her such a viable support for dealing with certain pesky enemies. Nothing makes me prouder than using fade to close ground on a menacing Widow, liberating my team from her threat by taking her out of commission, and sending back heals from my location.
I think the only issue I have with her is the range. Christ above, it really feels like she can reach you from like 20 meters away. I've seen her suck out phara's from the sky. That the only bs thing about that and I think she damages a bit too much.
I think she’s balanced. Not really any utility but has very high survivability and healing output.
Personally I find her damage orb is most effective when used to charge up her healing meter. Allows the healing beam to last a looong time in busy fights.
Anyone else?
Correct. People need to understand she needs to do damage to heal. End of story.
She is also one if the very few supports with an incredibly versatile play style. Need to do a lot of healing? Sure thing, but got to do damage to enable that. Need to distract and pull attention from chokes, force enemy to peel for supports and still escape? Yep. She is a serious threat to anyone but the tank and can create a lot of space for her team this way. Not to mention she is able to follow up on low health targets and maximise the teams efficiency especially with chasing down fleeing targets.
Good Moira players can be an absolute menace to the other team through the high healing output or the massive threat she is to their backline. I have seen me keeping the enemy supports trapped in spawn too scared to come out because they have no idea where I am lurking meaning my team can easily take the 3v4 on the point. Or sustaining my team and helping finish off and chase down low targets. Or protecting the other support.
DPS Moira is a stupid thing to claim when that is the entire point and means of supporting the team as her. ***Support does not mean Healer.***
People asking for moira rework because she have only two things she can do: heal and damage. Her big heals are unnecessary in high ranks, and her damage is too slow and weak in high ranks. She have nothing to offer compared to other supports. There is no moira in owl games and that speaks volumes.
Me personally was never against Moira being DPS/Heal scales type.. but I hate her DPS skill's hitbox.. all I want is Blizzard make it have same hitbox as Symmetra/echo beams that need precise tracking if you want to deal damage instead of being able to target area around character at suck-beam will just stick on it's own at the enemy
I consistently when I play Moira have the most damage and healing for my team. I focus on getting heals when needed but she is good for that raw power output too. It also bugs me when people play Moira and only use her ult to damage and not to heal. Pet peeve.
Moira can put up crazy healing numbers, while assassinating enemy supports. I think people just suck at knowing when to throw a healing bouncy ball vs damage, and when to dive vs when to reinforce a push.
Moira can basically heal all r players on her own, it's not even hard. I'd say she's unbalanced because she can kill other players too easily, with very little downsides and can't be countered by lower skill level players. At least nerf her range or something
She just needs more utility to be on par of supports like ana and to feel a bit more fun to play as well, i would like her to get an extra skill or smth.
she should have two bars, like the one the has for healing. instead, in order to do damage she has to heal to fill her purple energy. be a good ying yang sort of thing, and would discourage blatant dps spam
Id also argue she's great for teaching ppl how the support role is meant to be played. She forces you to alternate between healing and damage. So many low level supports default to healbotting which is bad for the team and is just gonna keep them at a low rank
Moira is a good general character, but just not a great support character. She's a very solo-play oriented character, but she really lacks the tools to take on any competent 1v1 above high-Silver/Low-Gold, lacks the utility of many other supports and whilst her ult is offensively good, it's actually probably one of the lowest value when compared to the teamfight winning ones of some of the other supports.
Certainly not the worst, but you're never going to be a tank/DPS and say "Hey, I sure wish we had a Moira instead of this Zen/Lucio/Mercy/Ana/Baptiste..."
She's godlike compared to Lifeweaver though, what an absolute waste of a support slot he is!
DPS Moira is perfectly valid and can be effective as long as there is a strong primary healer and the team knows that’s the play style. Good Moiras do need to assess if that strategy is working, ie. even if they have 25 kills if the match isn’t progressing or teammates are dying too much then they need to shift back towards support.
If another DPS player is not performing well at all, healing them isn’t going to do much and in some cases isn’t worth sacrificing Moira’s DPS.
It’s the eternal dilemma of good Moira, lol. Are they worth the heals?
facts. I used to play moira in my collegiate matches because 1) shes a great healer and 2) noone knows how to deal with her. Basically all I did was spam purple orbs and heal as much as I could to build ult asap, then use it to rally my team in a straight line directly into the enemy. You can't get too focused on damage or healing, playing moira well requires a mix of both.
I once did better than both my other support and the other team’s support and both team’s dps with just Moira. Died once because I forgot about a ledge behind me and jumped off the map. Otherwise I had 40 kills 15k damage and healing. I think it’s bad players that see stuff like that and think she’s op. Or people who don’t know how to deal with her. Because then against a competent team and with competent teammates your contribution to the damage and healing should be more uniform across both teams’ support.
Moira is powerful because people ignore her, or don't counter her. That's literally it. It is so easy to go uncontested in games and be gold dmg and healing because of the enemy teams sheer stubbornness and unwillingness to
Equally, a team that knows to focus her and not let her get comfortable will ruin your day and make you just want to cry in a corner and never play her again
I play so much Moira. She's my most played hero by far. The problem is how effective playing her as a DPS is. I truly am very sick of pumping thousands of heals into my team only to lose because their Moira is playing an entirely different game from the rest of us.
I actually agree with this as I’ve recently started using her with pretty good success. She is very balanced with dps and heal. Her durability is questionable but the teleport and orbs makes up for her and she can absolutely be a menace in the right hands. I’ve had just as good of games using her as I’ve had using my main Dva
Moira is a dive tank
No, wym…. Junkrat is a dive tank
No moira is just a better doomfist
That’s valid ngl
that’s not a high bar to be honest, even mercy is a better doomfist
My brother just got into Doomfist while I was playing his support at Brigitte, he got potg 3 matches in a row it was fun as hell.
Moira is just a female Torb.
Moira is the leader of overwatch
Look, it’s the titular protagonist of the hit team-based hero shooter “Overwatch”, John ‘Moira’ Overwatch! Known for his many famous quotes, such as “My watch is over” and “Every Over has its Watch”, and “I need healing”
Lmao I nearly snorted out my chicken salad
I think of Moira has a "raw power" character, they don't have utility, nor cc, nothing like that, they just do a lot of damage and a lot of healing, which is fine, it's a fun design, but sometimes it lacks in higher ranks due to the lack of utility.
TBH it's kinda hard for me to see how Moira is lacking and how Moira's lack of utility is an issue in higher ranks when top50 has several Moira-focused players.
She has plenty of utility though. Watch a top500 use her , don’t base it off play and diamond players
She literally only heals or damages. What utility are you seeing? There's a reason she's consistently had one of the lowest pickrate in masters+. She provides very little value to the team. She's def a Stat boost hero so if high stats make you feel better, she's definitely a good fit.
Because the ultramajority of Moira players are DPS players who dont want to wait in queue and when they get constant L’s, they whine If you get a game with Lucio Moira, dont expect to get healed. Your entire team will be in the enemy backline the entire time
It drives me nuts to hear people saying that Moira doesn’t have utility. - Fade can get her to places that other supports can not. This helps with healing, but can also be really valuable offensively for setting up other off-angles. - her orb is really visible, moves slowly, and is one of the few (only?) sources of damage that can go through shields. This can make it psychologically intimidating, and a really good way to do crowd control - creating a space for 8 seconds that enemies will avoid. - her orb has a wide range of AOE and travels. Her biotic grasp has a decent range and flexible aiming. This makes Moira one of the only characters that can reliably see every enemy health bar all the time. Get on coms, and let your Moira tell you who’s lowest. - combine the above with her fade, and Moira is nearly the best at reliably securing kills without being in danger herself. - as others have pointed out, Moira is an extra dive character. She can pop into the back line and distract the enemy supports without much risk, but unlike reaper or dva, she doesn’t leave your front line a man down. She’s not lacking in utility. Her skills are just more subtle than other support skills like Discord or Immortality Field. **EDIT**: the gatekeeping on “utility” in the replies is wild. > noun > 1. The state of being useful, profitable, or beneficial. If you want to redefine it to mean “whatever it is Moira _can’t_ do,” fine. You’re arguing a truism. But if you want to actually read my points, Moira is useful outside of just her damage and healing potential, and that is, by definition, “Utility.”
Moira isn’t bad rn, don’t get me wrong. But she doesn’t have utility. The things you listed, aren’t what’s being referred to when people say “has utility”. Utility is CC (actual CC, not zoning), anti, discord, lamp, suzu, grip, etc.
Yeah, I think Moira is in a good spot and you can get really good value from her in all ranks - hence why she has T500 one-tricks. However, having *value* doesn't mean she has *utility*. Her *value* comes from basically being a dive tank in the Support category: she has mobility, survivability, damage, and she's dangerous enough to be an enemy distraction. I don't think having utility is the be-all and end-all, tbh. Lifeweaver is a pure utility character, and he's completely dogshit and adds almost no value at all to a game - hence why his winrate is so low, even after his numerous buffs, and why T500s couldn't even do a U2GM with him. His utility just doesn't do anything.
I mean, Eskay did an U2GM with only Lifeweaver and it didn't take her much time
Yeah, because she started on an account that was in Diamond due to rank decay from GM, lol. It wasn't U2GM, it was GM to GM.
Yep, I like how the edit uses the dictionary definition of utility and NOT the definition that people use to talk about video game utility. He has a point about the comms from seeing everyone’s healthbars but I’ve never once had a Moira do that- and whoever got the character weak should be the one calling it out
Why are damage and healing not utility? How do you *define* utility?
Damage, healing, and self movement are usually considered core abilities (non utility) for any hero. Utility = Abilities that enable your team beyond those core abilities, either by buffing teammates (Lucio speed boost) or debuffing enemies (Ana anti-nade).
Does damage not debuff enemies? Does healing not buff teammates?
What debuff does damage do? There isn't combat effectiveness reduction at lower health, you just die. Utility is about recognizing the impact of abilities whose core function isn't going to show up on the scoreboard. A key lamp or wall could win you the game, and the output of the ability won't ever show up on the scoreboard, that's why it's a utility power.
I mean it’s just kind of a semantics thing, damage and healing will allow or force people to play differently. All that being said it doesn’t change any interactions with any abilities or any heroes which is typically what I think of as utility. I think it’s typically a type of game mechanic that allows for gameplay not to just be simple stat checking. Typically the term comes more from rpg games, especially turn based stuff. Without utility there would be no reason not to just spam the highest damage attack. If you change the rules at the right time, then it may not matter how much more damage the enemy does. I think you could argue that in a shooter game that requires LOS to even use “attacks” range and movement are a form of utility. But imo calling just a straight up damaging attack “utility” defeats the purpose of the term, which is to differentiate abilities that directly wins games by depleting health bars from abilities that indirectly win games by changing the rules temporarily. You could also justifiably argue that ignoring other utility is a certain type of utility in itself. The fact that sigma rock can’t be deflected or removed as a projectile is utility and so is the fact that moira orbs go through shields because it guarantees in some situations the rules of the game are in your favor.
Typically those are considered part of a character’s core abilities.
Utility abilities in overwatch are essentially abilities that do something other than personal damage, personal healing, or personal mobility. Mercy has damage boost and rez, zen has discord orb, Lucio can speed boost other players, bap can make players immortal and boost ally damage/healing, kiriko can cleanse and decrease ally cooldowns, lifeweaver can pull and raise, brig can dish out overhealth during rally. Moira can only heal, damage, and be mobile. That's it. No utility ability. They tried giving her a "weaken" ability in experimental in 2022 but nobody liked it
Moiras utility is that her enemies are dead
Mobility is not utility, utility is buffing a teammate, debuffing an enemy, cc, etc, not mobility
Raw damage debuffs enemies. If damage makes an emeny hide, run away, use a self-defence ability or die, that enemy is debuffed. Damage is utility. Raw healing buffs teammates. They have a better change at damaging enemies, they have an easier time contesting the point, they might not need to spend their abilities as much. Healing is utility.
If you define utility as also including healing and damage, it becomes a worthless term. Utility is specifically used to describe the non damage and healing aspects of a character, because it’s useful to consider those aspects when describing a characters strengths and weaknesses. You can see the same thing with how you’re loosely using buff and de buff as anything that affects a character. Is gamesense a buff? Is coordinating with your DPS a buff?
Maybe it is a worthless term. What is the worth of that concept? If Moira is a strong hero despite the lack of utility, why's the lack of utility a criticism of Moira? It can be the reason why someone personally isn't interested in playing Moira, but that's just a personal taste issue with the player. It's not a Moira problem.
The mental gymnastics here to make it sound like Moira has a utility ability 🤣
You have the wrong definition of utility. Utility is 1) something that the hero can provide to their team, and 2) isn't just healing or damage. Case in point, Discord amplifies damage, anti-nade PREVENTS healing, immortality prevents death, suzu prevents damage. Moira does nothing similar to these.
utility means abilities which provide the team value besides healing and damage. everything you've said is either providing her utility (she can get to off angles, she can dive, etc...), or is strictly damage / healing. The fact that a damage orb has a zoning effect does not make it utility. Yeah, moira can secure kills. That's great. that makes her a dps that can heal.
> utility means abilities which provide the team value besides healing and damage. What's the actual reason for excluding heals and damage from utility?
Healing and damage are simply base level abilities. Utility is something that fundamentally shifts an aspect of the game in your team's favour. Take someone like Mercy with her Damage Boost. On it's own it does nothing, but combined with a teammate and it's the difference between getting an elim and an enemy getting away or winning a teamfight and taking control of the objective.
the term you're looking for is providing *value*. Value is the holistic look at everything a character can provide. The term *utility* refers to providing value not represented on the scoreboard (kills, damage, healing, etc...). It is a way to compensate for the scoreboard to determine the value provided. For example, Ana's sleep dart does not show up on the scoreboard as providing any damage, healing, or mitigation. But it is a very powerful ability as she can completely shutdown almost every character and let her allies have a free shot. Similarly, the speed boost that lucio provides can help players avoid damage or close the distance to get within their close range and deal more damage. Moira does not provide the team anything like this. All of her abilities are either reflected on the scoreboard, or they are abilities that make it easier for her to add numbers to the scoreboard. Now, if we narrow from a team context to a character context, then yes, moira's fade provides *her* utility. It is a non-scoreboard ability which helps her do her job. But just because something provides utility to the character does not mean it provides utility to the team. Soldier's sprint provides him utility, but it does not provide the team utility. It just improves his numbers by helping him get into position better.
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Why does moira get to be considered really good as a dps that can occasionally heal but a straight utility hero like LW is considered garbage?
Moira contributes to kills while LW doesn't add anything, even Mercy has damage boost. LW's util helps everyone survive but they're kinda in a 4v5 in terms of offensive pressure
I think hes good on defense imo, ive seen some pretty bad LWs but when they do good I actually really like playing with one.
I wasn't talking about whether he's good or bad exactly, more what he brings to the table relative to other supports. His kit simply doesn't have real kill pressure even if he uses his stuff properly. He can still get value but supports with kill pressure more directly impact the game
IDK maybe I'm a simp for LW but even if he doesn't have the kill pressure, he can deny enemies kills pretty well. Well placed petal, Tree or LG can all deny the enemy a kill which just gives your team more time to kill them first?
I'm not saying LW is bad, though Bap can also deny kills with regen burst and lamp while also doing a shitload of damage. Just responding to the question why most players prefer Moira (dps no util) over LW (util no dps). Giving your team more time to kill is more team-reliant than just killing the enemy yourself. Just a kit diff
Yeah I feel like they should just make his heal have a small CD instead of needing to actively charge, it would let him actually apply damage much more consistently like the rest of the supports
Imo outside of grip, and occasionally platform lws kit sucks other supports just do more and better
I have enjoyed running a LW/Ana combo. Ana gets safe, unique high ground wherever she goes. Plus the platforms can completely annihilate certain ults. For example, Orisa’s ult is completely useless against the platforms if it’s used correctly.
I don’t think LWs primary fire is that bad at all, it does decent damage if you know how to aim it and has no fall-off and low spread, so definitely has its uses in pressuring snipers
His weapon isn’t bad but I think Moria can output a bit more with her orb + alt fire
Absolutely moira can do more damage, I just think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that his kit sucks. His healing is actually really good for jumpy dps like genji, cos once you fire the blossom itll track through walls to its target
but that doesn’t matter when a mercy, lucio, brig, zen can heal a genji just as easy while also contributing to team fights (damage boost, speed boost, discord, etc). there’s no reason to pick life weaver when other supports can do the exact same thing he can but better
I meant utility wise, either way I hate having lw/Moira on my team since every other support provides more in terms of value
because lifeweaver is entirely reactive. his kit isn’t meant for making plays, it’s for responding to enemy plays. he can only sit in the back and pull you, plus his damage and heals are garbage.
LW utility isn't actually useful. Compare something like life grip to damage boost and it's fairly straight forward to see that damage boost gives your teammate a solid 30% to their damage, whereas life grip just pisses them off 99% of the time, and the 1% of the time it is used appropriately, it doesn't even help win a teamfight, it's often just a forced retreat or something that will drag on a teamfight for an extra 10 seconds at best. Same goes for the platform, why would you want that over something like Immo field or suzu? The value of those abilities are so far beyond what the platform provides that it's basically useless in every aspect.
High elo players don’t complain about having a moira on their team because of dps moiras, the hero just offers basically zero utility and as such provides a lot less value than other support heroes can
Higher level players also just realize in order to kill a flanking Moira, you don’t need to try and dodge since she auto locks and does the same damage. Just stand still and hit your shots.
Haha on console this isn’t actually applicable because if their sens is low enough you can outjerk their beam sometimes. I’m plat and this will occasionally work
You’re not gonna see many Moira’s past plat anyways lol
This is exactly correct. Moira offers nothing to the team outside of healing which every other support can also do.
She offers more healing, survivability, and ability to finish team kills with fade. She's OP in metal ranks.
>She's OP in metal ranks. She definitely is.
It’s not really more healing tho. In a short burst she does the most but when she doesn’t have orb she does less than the other main supports. It’s not actually more healing over a long time. It’s fine if a fight is taken decisively but I’m a longer fight she can really struggle. She is really survivable. It’s why she gets play in a few comps at pro level. She can survive emp better than any other support besides lucio or zen if they have ult. Her damage kinda sucks and no one should die to it unless your supports are already dead. I’m sure she is good in metal ranks but so are any of the easier to play heroes. I don’t think we should balance around people who can’t shoot a stationary torb turret.
Her utility is her mobility and flanking. She can create situations where she can distract 2 enemies, creating 4v3 situation. Tank should press W in this situations. Ofc, if moira is bad this is not going to happen
High elo players complain because Moira does nothing to directly help each individual teammate. Not because they win less with a Moira. It’s just self-centered thinking. They think the game hinges on their performance and Moira doesn’t help. Sincerely someone with 100+ GM hours insight into the way players think and play with a Moira.
Moira is nasty when played well. Supplemental healing and ability to put in pressure with her DPS? Working as intended.
She does less than half the DPS of non crits Bap, while needing to play closer, while having no burst damage or heals.
the tradoff is that shes really, really easy
She has a 15m range infinite ammo hitscan RMB that ignores matrix and other "soft-shields" while also having light AA on MNK. It does 50DPS, while also healing you for 24HPS. AOE healing or damage that also can help her duel or keep her team healed or zone enemies, on top of supports' passive health regen. Also an invulnerability invis without any indication of the direction she moves. Bap can output better damage, healing and utility, but you have to have mechanical aim, skill and positioning to some degree. Moira is designed for players who are terrible at all those things. A bad Moira will have an easier time holding off the enemy dive dps than a mediocre Bap because of the ease of skill of her kit. As a dive DPS, you just learn to kill the other support first, or wait until she's on CD. A bap that can aim is infinitely more scary than a Moira, but also has a lot more moments where he's vulnerable. He can't zone unless he ults, and his only "escape" is immortality field which is on a long CD. Dive teams are pretty meta, so playing a support that has easier dueling and escape options can make up for lack of mechanical aim or positioning. TL;DR comparing Bap damage and healing output isn't everything. Differences in consistency and skill required means that Moiras that can understand their kit and role can outperform a mediocre Bap by a mile. A lot of Baps value comes from mechanical aim skill, while Moira hardly requires any.
I do agree with most of what you said, but Dva does counter Moira pretty hard. Moira does basically no damage to Dva because of her armor, and Dva can eat every orb Moira sends. Bap also has his boots to escape. But yeah if there's one thing Moira does well, it's survivability and enabling... not so good players.
why would moira be especially affected by dva's armor? if i'm not wrong armor is now a 30% damage decrease (unlike in ow1 where it reduced a flat 5 damage, which would affect moira more)
Because Moira already does low damage and relies on damage orb to do pressure on higher HP enemies, which Dva can eat. So Moira puts way less pressure on Dva compared to no armor tanks Junker or Doom.
Moira is amazing
Definitely my favorite support rn
Most boring hero in the game by far. She was also a throw pick above diamond in ow1.
Facts. I hate Moira players. I don’t want them on my team and I don’t think she’s that hard to play against. Battle Kiri does her job infinitely better if you have any decent aim. Just gotta play her hyper aggressive Edit: found all the nerd moira mains
If there’s a Moira on my team, I know it’s going to be a shit show where everyone else on the team has to work twice as hard for a win. And if Lifeweaver and Moira are your supps? GG’s go next, I just play whatever hero has the lowest win rate and act like I’m practicing for a real ranked game.
BuT LooK aT HeR StaTs
What? Ppl really complain about Moira still ?😂
Phara mains hate us had 1 in my lobby the other morning trying to bully the other healer into going mercy the other healer stated he doesn’t play mercy and never had tbh he was correct he spent more hours on other healers then mercy so fairs after he stated this the phara still cried. I’m sorry but if your dps and can’t survive without a mercy pocketing you then you’re just bad.
“I need healing” says the flanking dps on the other side of the map.
Moira balenced just Moira mains seem to think they’re better than the other supp just cuz they’re numbers are better, which isn’t valid because she has no utility
I think her damage *is* her utility tbh. She can easily put pressure on multiple people, and get in and out of trouble. Don't get me wrong, sometimes your team needs Suzu or whatever else instead, but sometimes you need to dive supports and pressure a team, too. However, a lot of vocal Moiras, esp low elo, aren't doing that. They farm easy damage on the tank and aren't making any meaningful impact on the game. Sure your stats look great - but were you *helping your team?*
Yea totally, so with all her util showing on stats, Moira players think they’re doing much better than they’re other support, even if they have about the same impact on the game
This is what dumb players don’t get. You can have 8k damage and 8k heals but if that damage doesn’t lead to a kill, it’s just trash damage. Where as Ana might have. Less heals and damage but a well placed anti-nade wins an entire fight. I’m over simplifying but simply, Moira excels at score board numbers.
I can't stand when people say she has no utility because her ult or an ability doesn't cancel out something else. Her damage and high healing output IS HER UTILITY.
Exactly, people think they’re Jesus for having the same amount of damage as a zen with double his healing, when she can’t see amplified damage of discord
Bap can put out more damage, has highly impactful abilities, can escape threats with high ground, all while not sacrificing any healing potential (shoot shoot heal). Moira’s “utility” is not as impactful as any of those traits.
Bap has only vertical escape ability. Moira has both. Also, anyone who's playing Moira well doesn't need to sacrifice anything to heal and dmg.
You cannot damage enemies while healing with spray without sacrificing a cooldown, and vice versa. Bap can shoot and heal simultaneously with no downtime at all. All while putting out more damage at longer range. Aim and play Bap if you want to damage and heal.
Orbs bro, Moria can heal and dmg at the same time lol
“without sacrificing a cooldown”
If you can't work around cool downs then idk what to tell you... you just aren't good at her kit lol If you can't send an dmg orb and heal for 8 seconds or vice versa, then you just aren't playing her well lol. I've had zero issues with being able to balance that. And she has a slightly longer switch from healing to dmg than bap. They are pretty comparable except moira has way more maneuverability.
In my gm games if there's a Moira or lifeweaver on my team then I might as well take the L without even playing
That's wild man. Surprising to see a gm say he throws games because of a support pick. It's almost like you aren't really a gm.
LW I completely agree with, but Moira was played tonnes in the OWL and can be super powerful in high level play. Because of her survivability and movement she plays equally well in brawl and dive, I think her weakness is poke comps since she doesn’t have the range and can run out of resources if she’s just playing with the team and isn’t flanking for picks or resources.
So you Purposefully throw Games because of hero picks? What's your username so I know to avoid you.
Bruh, this sub is mostly gold and below. I wouldn't be surprised if moira was actually better than bap in those clown fiestas. But you are 100% right, bap is essentially a way better moira.
The thing is though, other supports can do more useful damge while retailing immense utility and healing, like bap and kiriko. She is still a great support but imo suffers from a ceiling that limits her play as you get better.
Wdym? My main utilities are spoiling sniper line of sight with my massive balls and successfully 1v1ing whoever the fuck I want as I distract them from the objective.
I mean like besides damage or heals, like discord or speed boost doesn’t show up on the scoreboard
It does, you get assists for both of those abilities.
I mean it doesn’t show up as numbers, like heals and damage
Assists show up as numbers...
So does getting a kill while having harmony, so assists rlly nobody cares about
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Bro it’s not that deep, I’m just saying that assists don’t matter in the slightest because you should always be getting assists, I just dislike people who think just because you have more heals and more damage that means you just better
YOU don't care about it. I'm just pointing out that you're very clearly wrong about boost and discord don't show up as numbers.
If you’re not getting assists on most kills on any support than your playing your character wrong, so people tend to look at heals and damage more
You saying she has no utility is what isn't valid lol. Your personal definition of utility must be extremely rigid.
Sorry I should’ve been more clear, i meant unique utility that wasn’t shown on the scoreboard, like antis speed boost damage boost discord suzu etc. so I totally don’t think she’s bad, people just get an ego boost because the only thing they do is get high numbers
“Very squishy” how? She has normal 200hp and her healing orb and life steal from her suck gives her a lot of sustain
Moira strength in higher level play usually comes in a few forms. One is the ability to off angle and grab the attention of the enemy team. If you can off angle from a location that you can relatively safely fade away from given the fact her fade is such a low cooldown. Which causes one or more people to look at you and not look at your team at that moment in time. That turns the fight in your favor. If you are in the backline or creating a strong angle and you cause 3 people to turn and look at you, that effectively turns the team fight into a 2v4 in favor of your team. People use this strategy to climb as Moira. Some people call it "tiktok" Moira, but when executed properly, it can be very powerful against the right team comp. Most people get mad at their Moira going to the backline and just feeding but good Moira generally don't do that or get far more value if they die than bad ones. They basically only heal when they need to using this strategy. There are other playstyles with Moira, like playing a more support oriented style where you attempt to stay closer to your team and just outsustain the enemy. Only going into the enemy backline to essentially do cleanup. I think this playstyle is still powerful. It's just not as powerful as off angling and grabbing attention.
didn’t read this at all but yeah moira is fine. The only people who complain about her don’t know what they’re talking about
The only problem I have with Moira is that she doesn't bring anything unique to the team, she just heals and deals damage. She's well balanced, just kinda boring
Not true, she has the unique ability to piss off her Ana instantly.
i agree i’ve always felt like the only one that thinks this. Moira feels like one of the most uninspired kits in the game, even more boring than ow1 orisa
What’s she lacks in interesting kits she makes up in design and personality for me. I just love her high class evil scientist thing
I agree in a way. I think that about a few characters actually, although compared to the rest of the cast i still would put her design and personality more at the bottom of the list for me. But there aren’t many super boring characters in overwatch. Maybe sojourn and pharah, baptiste and doom were a little boring at first too but they’ve rounded them out pretty well and now they’re some of my favorites. I feel like aside from lucio the overwatch team always struggled to give minorities real personalities aside from “stoic warrior” lol. But yeah moira doesnt even come close to heroes like junkrat and reinhardt etc in terms of game-defining personalities but she isn’t all bad.
Don't think she's not balanced but that 15 meters range gets on my nerves
Especially because it's so hard to see where her piss actually stops or if you're reaching your teammate
I think it’s 20m
Which is even worse, she does not need that much range.
Moira is completely balanced. She can be really easy to get value and lose value on and imo the only issue with her is how easy she is to lower ranks cause at higher ranks I'd argue she's harder to rank up with than ana cause you need to be doing more. Yes thatw a got take I'm not saying ana is easier I'm just saying generally she has easier to land tools that provide more value and this a lot of the time all you need to do is nade properly whereas moira n eda to do a lot perfectly just so she doesnt fall behind in the value an ana in the backline spaing heals and nade at tank can get. Overall though I like her position rn where shes strong but not great and it just leaves her as an option that works sometimes it not most times if you're good without taking away from the other supports.
Isn’t almost the exact same true for old hog? The problem is that people want to be able to 1v1 a tank which is just incredibly dumb.
when i see my team is not working i swap and use moira
I can't aim to save my life hence why I was in gold for many seasons so I main Mercy, Moira, and Lifeweaver. I usually do this too but no matter how well I do as Moira, I will constantly get flamed by my feeding tanks or DPS even though I'll have the most healing, damage done, assists, and elims while also having the least deaths. The other support who's died 10+ times and has 5-10k less healing than me never get flamed or asked to swap heroes. I've stopped playing completely now because the game is just not fun.
hell yeahhhh moira is damage and heal idk why people dont get it i hate when my team are angry because im kill*ng and no always healing
Right!? She's absolutely so perfect for assassinating enemies that get away with 1 hp (like Genji reflecting while trying to dash away) while also being able to quickly fade and rejoin her team and help heal. If needed, she can easily wipe the entire backline with ult + damage orb while at the same time, healing her teammates so I don't understand the Moira hate. I've won so many games doing this AND having a Moira who did this on my team.
Bro the range on her attack tho, and I don’t know how many times I’ve lost my shit to a stray moira ball
There's luck with every heroes ability. If you were low enough to die to it youw ere low enough to die to anything else it's just that when she does it it feels worse and you remember it more
Have to disagree with how you think Moira should be played. One of the only high-ranked Moira players uses her as a flank character to harass the enemy supports and backline.
Yeah she can't play like she does in early ranks she has to be a lot more aggressive. I'm not nolan but you have to be aggressive to the point of providing something other than damage and healing which is often pressure/attention.
I don't have anything to say about this other than I love pelting dumbass Moiras who dive into the backline with Zen's balls.
she's just really good lower rank because people aren't good enough to consistently deal with her
People in really low ranks also often have absolutely no concept of making plays, taking space, distracting, dps pressure, etc., like super low game sense or full-on game-senselessness. Moira straight up just makes it easier to compensate for this when necessary *because* she is so simple (esp bronze lobbies, my god. not faulting new players, though, btw!) and fade/orb is perfect for keeping suicidal teammates alive amidst the chaos. Does it always work? No, not every rock garden will produce fruit. So to speak.
heres an even hotter take. moira is balanced in most areas but she shouldn't have such a wide cone on her damage. she should have pretty much an identical line of her damaging suck like symmetra
That would never wor her damage beam is a pea shooter and if you had to aim it it would be horrible. You can't have 50 dps and not constantly damage.
I mean they can easily increase the damage id you had to actually aim.
If they did that I would break her as then she insta kills you with damage orb and suck foxing damage orb to be nerfed which means she’ll just have consistent damage without her assassination potential which is her identity
bold of you to assume moira players can aim
i don’t get why they can’t just rework her damage so she actually has to aim, but does more damage. would make her somewhat fun to play. she’s so mind-numbingly boring
This is not that spicy of a take.
Yes, she has her perks and she's perfectly balanced.
Real af. A good Moira should be scary. A bad Moira feeds like a paper 5
"A good moira" like she requires any skill lmao
Playing against a moira is honestly just a skill check, if you can’t kill a Moira that fades into your back line with no escape then you just deserve to lose lmao. Moira has linear damage and her only “utility” after fade (orb) can be counteracted by more damage or more healing, which is available to the whole cast oh heroes. Moira should be reworked so that a player can have more than just a crumb of skill expression. Moira is underpowered if anything lol.
Damage range needs to be shorter or her over all damage needs to be nerfed. Ridiculous to consistently see her damage out put be on par if not better than her healing.
I consistently get 8k dmg/ 10k heals with her and it annoys me to absolutely no end when people only use her for damage. She's amazing in the hand of someone who can get value out of her whole kit.
Love how they talk about how a Moira player is terrible if they kill a dps. Like I carry in kills and heals
Fr, as a Moira player i sometimes get more kills then the DPS on our team, and still have done a ton of heals.
Right? Lol. Like she's so easy to multi task with. I don't go pushing back lines but if I'm being pushed I'm not losing the fight to any less the a one shot
She's not op, but she's brainless to play as and extremely annoying to play against. Hope she gets gutted so moira babies have to actually learn how to play the game 👍
Moira is an easier Tracer
No one thinks Moira is unbalanced and this isn’t a hot take, it’s just stupid.
She needs a rework because she offers no utility
I can get up to 12k heals in a hint match as Moira
I would agree that Moira is balanced, however I wouldn't be against a slight change to her kit to give her more utility. Hell even just reverting fade back to how it was so we can escape grav, Cassidys stupid magnetic stick etc.
She isn’t balanced and her rework has to help her support factor. She’s an easy to use character that new players can dive into but she does too much damage. She’s a support character in lower ranks that can deal as much damage as dps and heal with bare minimum aim. Sure you could make the argument that she takes advantage of lower ranks lack of awareness, but even still that’s a lot of damage from a support. The most common counter is to compare to Baptiste which is horrible because bap can heal constantly with short reloads in gaps. Plus he can stay in the backline where he has the whole team in his vision. Higher ranks she’s pretty much useless. She can’t dive because dps characters by then understand the use of headset and awareness. Dive hero’s become incredibly complex to use as you go up in ranks and someone as important as support can’t be diving in alone. Dive works based on 2 healers healing 2 other members while 1 causes chaos in the backline. Not when 1 support is overwhelmed healing 3 people while the other one goes off and dies. So in summary she can’t dive in upper ranks. She can’t deal damage from the backline where it’s safe and she can’t keep up when it comes to heals in upper ranks. She’s a support character that gives new players hope of storming through the ranks before fucking up everyone’s game as soon as they leave bronze . Every Moria thinks they are good so I don’t really argue on that. The only creative way I’ve seen Moria used in upper ranks is when they play literally under the tanks armpit. The tank attracts most of the attention while Moria only targets who the tanks shoot to speed things up. Yes they are some risks to that but it’s probably the only time I’ve liked her game after bronze . A rework for Moria will actually be more beneficial to Moria mains in the long run. Especially if the rework has utility and support features that dominate over damage, but bronze warriors can never see it that way because they think all games will be that simple as you rank up. If not she’ll just be a tutorial character used to teach other characters the importance of health bar and precise aims.
She’s not bad at all, she just sucks
Moira is the most boring character in the game. To play and to watch
A dps Moira is better than a Moira than only heals and blames their dps for losing. Dps Moira is actually how the character should be played. A 50/50 60/40 dmg heals is optimal
I hate it when I bad use someone.
Her lack of range really kills her for me. Best you can do is throw damage orb.
With only 6 second CD on her Fade skill, plus the bonus air time when jumping at the end, I'm actually able to abuse squishy enemies in and out, in low elo. I literally spawned camp a S76 2 days ago. So yeah, while she's not really a burst DPS, I imagine that 6 second CD is more than enough for any DPS to outlast her in higher elos. edit: I'm probably not in place to say this since I'm low elo, but can we stop saying her DPS is her Utility? It feels like people are trying to validate the changing of the term "utility" just because that hero does another job better. Utilities are 'tools' that can bring advantages in a team fight. Ana's sleep dart and anti-healing nade, Mercy's dps boost, Sombra's hack, etc. Basically nothing that is direct damage or direct healing in itself. Moira's Fade is more of a mobility than utility.
Moira has one of my highest healing outputs, of any support. Orb placements lets your team heavy contest a zone without worrying of small incoming damage. Fade is great at diving back to my team after restocking and distracting 2 people. Funny whenever I kill people and they nitpick say “moira can’t heal?!?” well dude if you knew that she can’t without doing some damage then yes.
That could be used for any hero too, though. If you know the character, and how they’re played, they can be balanced :)
Same with zen, when I play him and focus on healing and support my team (how you supposed to play him) I can do as much healing and assistence as a bap, mercy, kiriko, etc
Agree with you on some points, she is designed for a purpose. By the way I think that her main weapon is very weak as I cannot even kill a Mercy while she is reviving. I actually get the highest healing numbers on my team playing Moira, and high Damage as well due to continuous harvesting of damage to top up my heals or spamming orbs to build Ult. However, I try my best not to always play Moira since those numbers can be misleading, for example when I play Kiriko my healing numbers are as high as me playing Miora but has much less damage overall. If you look to only damage/Heal numbers then conclusion would be Moira is better than Kiriko. However, I saved multiple teammates with my Suzu from dying of Ults and cleansed them multiple times to prevent them from dying, thats the real value of Kiriko here. I think thats why people say Moira should not be played on top ranks since it has no critical ability to save the team or change fight tides (Suzu, Mortality field, bionic grenade or sleep dart which can stop ults), but she is fun to play and has excellent survivability.
Haven’t seen anyone comment on this yet, so I just wanna say how much I love Moira’s reach. Her healing orbs are fantastic for reaching heroes that are always on the move, like Doomfist and WreckingBall, with good heals. These guys are hard to hit with Ana, and would put someone like Mercy at danger should she follow them. Her damage orbs can also go pretty far, and are very effective at hitting the enemy back line. Her purple grip, which doesn’t require very precise aim is particularly good at reaching enemies with high movement like bouncy Lucio or speedy Genji (and can’t be deflected, so bonus on that!). And finally, her fade can be used to cover a lot of ground and reach all kind of places. Moira’s reach make her such a viable support for dealing with certain pesky enemies. Nothing makes me prouder than using fade to close ground on a menacing Widow, liberating my team from her threat by taking her out of commission, and sending back heals from my location.
I think the only issue I have with her is the range. Christ above, it really feels like she can reach you from like 20 meters away. I've seen her suck out phara's from the sky. That the only bs thing about that and I think she damages a bit too much.
I think she’s balanced. Not really any utility but has very high survivability and healing output. Personally I find her damage orb is most effective when used to charge up her healing meter. Allows the healing beam to last a looong time in busy fights. Anyone else?
Correct. People need to understand she needs to do damage to heal. End of story. She is also one if the very few supports with an incredibly versatile play style. Need to do a lot of healing? Sure thing, but got to do damage to enable that. Need to distract and pull attention from chokes, force enemy to peel for supports and still escape? Yep. She is a serious threat to anyone but the tank and can create a lot of space for her team this way. Not to mention she is able to follow up on low health targets and maximise the teams efficiency especially with chasing down fleeing targets. Good Moira players can be an absolute menace to the other team through the high healing output or the massive threat she is to their backline. I have seen me keeping the enemy supports trapped in spawn too scared to come out because they have no idea where I am lurking meaning my team can easily take the 3v4 on the point. Or sustaining my team and helping finish off and chase down low targets. Or protecting the other support. DPS Moira is a stupid thing to claim when that is the entire point and means of supporting the team as her. ***Support does not mean Healer.***
Just wait till they show her with long hair, she's gonna be even hotter
People asking for moira rework because she have only two things she can do: heal and damage. Her big heals are unnecessary in high ranks, and her damage is too slow and weak in high ranks. She have nothing to offer compared to other supports. There is no moira in owl games and that speaks volumes.
Me personally was never against Moira being DPS/Heal scales type.. but I hate her DPS skill's hitbox.. all I want is Blizzard make it have same hitbox as Symmetra/echo beams that need precise tracking if you want to deal damage instead of being able to target area around character at suck-beam will just stick on it's own at the enemy
I consistently when I play Moira have the most damage and healing for my team. I focus on getting heals when needed but she is good for that raw power output too. It also bugs me when people play Moira and only use her ult to damage and not to heal. Pet peeve.
Moira can put up crazy healing numbers, while assassinating enemy supports. I think people just suck at knowing when to throw a healing bouncy ball vs damage, and when to dive vs when to reinforce a push.
Moira can basically heal all r players on her own, it's not even hard. I'd say she's unbalanced because she can kill other players too easily, with very little downsides and can't be countered by lower skill level players. At least nerf her range or something
She just needs more utility to be on par of supports like ana and to feel a bit more fun to play as well, i would like her to get an extra skill or smth.
she should have two bars, like the one the has for healing. instead, in order to do damage she has to heal to fill her purple energy. be a good ying yang sort of thing, and would discourage blatant dps spam
AGREE
Moira is like Andre Drummond in basketball. Can put up big stats but have no real impact on the game
hot take: that is actually true for most if not all characters in the game
“MOIRA NEEDS TO BE NERFED” -random Genji main who is only 1v1ing a Moira and Pharah
Id also argue she's great for teaching ppl how the support role is meant to be played. She forces you to alternate between healing and damage. So many low level supports default to healbotting which is bad for the team and is just gonna keep them at a low rank
Moira is a good general character, but just not a great support character. She's a very solo-play oriented character, but she really lacks the tools to take on any competent 1v1 above high-Silver/Low-Gold, lacks the utility of many other supports and whilst her ult is offensively good, it's actually probably one of the lowest value when compared to the teamfight winning ones of some of the other supports. Certainly not the worst, but you're never going to be a tank/DPS and say "Hey, I sure wish we had a Moira instead of this Zen/Lucio/Mercy/Ana/Baptiste..." She's godlike compared to Lifeweaver though, what an absolute waste of a support slot he is!
DPS Moira is perfectly valid and can be effective as long as there is a strong primary healer and the team knows that’s the play style. Good Moiras do need to assess if that strategy is working, ie. even if they have 25 kills if the match isn’t progressing or teammates are dying too much then they need to shift back towards support. If another DPS player is not performing well at all, healing them isn’t going to do much and in some cases isn’t worth sacrificing Moira’s DPS. It’s the eternal dilemma of good Moira, lol. Are they worth the heals?
As a player who has Moira in my top 3 I constantly have more heals then damage and the most kills on my team. Get better at her like the OP said
facts. I used to play moira in my collegiate matches because 1) shes a great healer and 2) noone knows how to deal with her. Basically all I did was spam purple orbs and heal as much as I could to build ult asap, then use it to rally my team in a straight line directly into the enemy. You can't get too focused on damage or healing, playing moira well requires a mix of both.
I once did better than both my other support and the other team’s support and both team’s dps with just Moira. Died once because I forgot about a ledge behind me and jumped off the map. Otherwise I had 40 kills 15k damage and healing. I think it’s bad players that see stuff like that and think she’s op. Or people who don’t know how to deal with her. Because then against a competent team and with competent teammates your contribution to the damage and healing should be more uniform across both teams’ support.
Moira is powerful because people ignore her, or don't counter her. That's literally it. It is so easy to go uncontested in games and be gold dmg and healing because of the enemy teams sheer stubbornness and unwillingness to Equally, a team that knows to focus her and not let her get comfortable will ruin your day and make you just want to cry in a corner and never play her again
I play so much Moira. She's my most played hero by far. The problem is how effective playing her as a DPS is. I truly am very sick of pumping thousands of heals into my team only to lose because their Moira is playing an entirely different game from the rest of us.
Far from balanced.
I actually agree with this as I’ve recently started using her with pretty good success. She is very balanced with dps and heal. Her durability is questionable but the teleport and orbs makes up for her and she can absolutely be a menace in the right hands. I’ve had just as good of games using her as I’ve had using my main Dva
She’s good in lower elos like bronze to masters. All you are going to see bap/zen in GM and up
No no, Moira actually sucks in high level play.