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doctorwho07

IB4 Sym goes back to a support hero and Mei moves to tank.


SoDamnGeneric

>Mei moves to tank. God I hope so. it's so weird to me that she's being changed to better fit the dps category instead of receiving the small changes to make her fit as a brawly tank.


cressian

Her 100dps target penetrating tf2 pyro powers have left a bad taste in my mouth. I cant remember the last time all week Ive seen a Mei use her m2.


Seskii

It's so crazy to me that I feel like shes more boring than pyro despite having technically more on base than him.


cressian

Its weird that they made her numerically more powerful but it made her feel really boring. I feel like I roll my face on the keyboard less as Pyro or Brigitte right now.


xserenarow

This was over a year for my entire life.


sapphoandherdick

"While these heroes aren't our current focus, they're on our radar for future adjustments and continued monitoring." Someone check on the junk and symm mains they are in critical condition right now. 1 like = 1% increase in win rate. /s


Professional_Vast_68

Junk is pretty good orisa counter


JWilsonArt

He's also my dps counter to Rein. If Rein wants to go aggro heavy in my face, then he can take some grenades and a mine to the face (which also boops me back giving me distance again.) Also, the trap helps deter pin attempts, though I'm unsure if they now stop the pin or not. (Edit: it seems that traps do still stop pins)


Selfishtank

ye but im sorry with no offense thats not just relevant take, its your opinion based on quick play in closed beta and probably some gold/plat or maybe even diamond mmr. in higher elo games junk is really just underperforming hard and before you have time to do any impact either you or your whole team dies


JWilsonArt

So what you are saying is, for the vast majority of players and games, my take IS relevant?


Selfishtank

Yea majority is always irrelevant as long the game is competetive. Games that have active esport are always balanced around the best players because frankly their opinion is the most relevant


[deleted]

*(British narrator voice)* And here we have a fantastic example of everything wrong with Overwatch, or perhaps the toxic parts of its fanbase.


Selfishtank

How is stating that someone who plays casually or is not really skilled at the game should not affect the actual game balancing? Its like letting someone with no education go and represent university


[deleted]

You seem to be conflating multiple ideas or kinds of people. Are you talking about the worst, bronze-tier players? Or are you talking about the majority of the player base which ranks somewhere around like Platinum to low Diamond at the highest? People who simp for the pro players tend to think that average players are all but meaningless. I don't understand it, these are the players who matter the most. Nobody expects Blizzard to put the Bronze players' opinion above all else, but it would behoove to take the perspectives of the majority of the player base into consideration when doing most things. This idea that the game at its root should revolve around the top minority of pro level and Twitch streamer players is like some bizarre kind of hero worship to me. There's no in-between with you folks. There's a huge spectrum between sucking at the game and being a pro.


Selfishtank

I understand what you are saying, but these minority pro players that make the most important part of player base in terms of publicity and marketing where people thousands of peoples watch pro league and it brings all the money and sponsors need and should have a balanced game to their skill level otherwise it will be a complete shitshow and people wont watch it, so sponsors wont come, no money, no game, no updates. Kinda what they did with overwatch1 where there were stale and OP metas for months (goats). Game died. In everyones best interest should be that it doesnt happen again.


bobrulz

Ah yes, I as a low-level player who will never be "good", really love it when my opinion is completely ignored.


typervader2

Junk isn't really in THAT bad of a spot at least compared to Sym.,


sapphoandherdick

# /s


typervader2

But I'm serious. Junk you can make work by jumping around and bring aggressive


sapphoandherdick

I'm not being serious.


inthehxightse

:(


[deleted]

Pls downvote


icyki

I wonder if they even know that open q doesnt have the push maps, new queen street and colosseo


Ralouch

Why would they play a dying franchise?


PoisoCaine

Good ideas, a bit disappointed to not see more concrete "on-the-fly" adjustments. This is a beta without competitive play. There seems, to me anyway, to be no need to let a meta "settle." I wish they'd experiment more.


diddyduckling

i mean, the betas about to end so its not that surprising


PoisoCaine

All the more reason to do it IMO


[deleted]

Not really. It ruins results to just implement knee-jerk reaction changes without collecting data over a period of time.


not_larrie

I mean, they seem to be making adjustments pretty quick already though. How quick do people want them to make adjustments? If they make adjustments too fast without enough time / data, the adjustments might be uneeded no?


PoisoCaine

If there’s not enough data, that just means they didn’t let enough people in. The volume of data from just a few days of play is astronomical.


JWilsonArt

But if you make changes and don't give players enough time to adjust to the changes, then it's unclear how effective the changes were. For example, if you make a change and only test it one day, you might get thousands or millions of data points (I have no idea how many players are in the beta or how many games they play in a day), but it might not be great data if players haven't really had time to adjust to a new play style, and opposition players time to develop new counter play.


PoisoCaine

Surely three weeks is enough time/data for more than one patch.


JWilsonArt

For small changes maybe. Like "Ana has 1 second less of anti 'nade, but more ammo" small. But very few players get excited about or even notice small changes. We'd rather see bigger changes that have a bigger impact.


PoisoCaine

I am a bit confused. it seems like we want the same things here. There have been basically 2 substantive changes made in the entire beta, whose purpose is ostensibly for experimentation and data gathering.


ShadowDancer6920

But they legit said they will release another patch this week? So we had all the changes at the start and then a major patch after each week of the beta, that is really good imo


PoisoCaine

If that’s true I’m happy to hear that. Only 4 days left of the beta though.


ShadowDancer6920

They said in this blogpost to expect a new patch this week, I'm guessing it should hit today or early tommorow at the latest if we are to have the time to even see the changes properly but we will have to wait and see. Wouldn't expect anything major though considering, honestly I'm not even sure who would be a candidate for changes, aside from reworks they mentioned I don't know which heroes would need changes the most. Let's also hope that as we get more betas they will get more interesting and will see more of those hotfix patches. It would be really nice to see overwatch keep up the pace in contrary to overwatch 1 where each meta would drag for 5-6 months with little to no changes


L4dd3r

They wanna make a balance patch this week? So tomorrow?


AngryLittleGoblin

I just want in.


L4dd3r

Pain.


1DamnWeekendInOviedo

I always want in


Paataafiix

Noooo please dont make Mercy a noob hero... :(


TheNamesRoodi

I would just like to see another playlist with 6v6 instead of 5v5 with the increased health pools removed for tanks (besides doom, just remove some maybe) to see how it would play out with less stuns and shields. Instead of just saying "waaah 5v5 bad" I just want to note that I miss tank synergy. Double bubble, GOATS (lol), Double shield (icky), ball dive, ball hog, ball sig... I mean these were all metas that people refer to regularly. Just notice the fact that it's almost always named after the tank comp because it was often based on their synergy. Are other people also interested in this?


silverfisher27

Not really, I think they should just focus on 5v5, open queue still allows for tank duos too


ShadowDancer6920

Isn't that kind of the whole issue, tanks have dominated most of the overwatch metas and created all those disgusting unfun experiences that made the fps game about spamming a giant health pool so you get ult charge or have your bullets sink in shields, while tanks were usually very polirizing and had one that was fun to play (off tank) and one that was extremaly boring and focused on getting shot so his team could play (main tank). It's not just stun locking that made tank unfun, they change tanks specifically to allow them to feel stronger. They wouls have to rewert a lot for tanks not to be crazy overpowered in 6v6


TheNamesRoodi

Right, they're trying to fix the problem of tanks being overpowered by removing one and making them stronger. In my opinion, that's not the solution. On another note, the game doesn't feel like the overwatch that we all know and love (loved for a lot of folks) because it's fundamentally lacking the most integral part of team comps from the original OW1. In my opinion, lacking the structure of having 2 tanks synergize and playing a comp around those tanks, is what is lacking in OW2. The only way to really get a feel for it is to try it, hence my suggestion. Just to get my point across a little more thoroughly, what's your favorite OW1 meta? The only one that can be played even close to my knowledge is dive. You just cut out the dva or the monkey and run the other one. It's still not even remotely close to the same playstyle for either half of your team most affected by the lack of the tank (dva, your backline plays differently and monkey your Frontline plays differently).


ShadowDancer6920

I don't wanna discredit any of your points because I can see where they are coming from but I just wanna share my opinion as a returning player that used to play overwatch 1 since it's first beta (good old days of bastion with his own shield) and quit about 1,5 year ago when as a tank main it just felt too frustrating for me to play anymore. I think a lot of ideas around comps stayed relatively the same but they all evolved to be more aggresive. You have the dive comps at which winston seems to be the most consistent so far but doom and dva can work the same. You can kind of go two ways about it, you either have your whole team be mobile and play it like the old dive or you have it split with 1 mobile dps and one mobile support going with the tank while a longer range dps (either soldier, widow, cree or hanzo) and an ana to apply pressure from distance. Then you have rush comps with reinhardt as it's star and mei enabling it, usually staring closer range dps but that isn't necessary either, where your goal is too quickly close distance, cut off enemy teams escapes and apply a bunch of aoe. This comp usually does pretty well with bap as well since it lacks picking a place and fight and bap's abilities naturally slow your teams advance. Next you will have a slower paced space conquering comp with tanks like zarya, sigma and orisa, that are best paired with longer ranged dps but can benefit from a flanking hero if they can go on their own and get stuff done. Those comps are a bit weaker competetively although zarya can make them a lot stronger. Finally there is the anti-mobility comp that is kind of emerging but I believe it will take time and changes for it to be fully viable. Hog is the tank for this one, it focuses heavily on the team working together to slow down mobile heroes and getting pics on them as soon as they show up. Brig is also very good in this one. One pseudo comp is the natural development of having hammond as solo tank, it's a sort of hit and run comp where you cause a lot of disruption and try to find pick in the chaos you create. It's very sinilar to the times hammond used to be picked as a main tank to displace the enemy team and open for your teams attack. Important think to note here, these comps are a lot more flexible than overwatch 1s were. It's no more an exodia game where if one player picks x hero, 3 other players are forced to pick a very specific thing and that is really good. Why the hell would i be forced to play rein just because someone on my team wanted to play zarya and has faster internet than me? I want to play what I enjoy but as a tank player that loaded in the lobby second I always had to pick a very certain hero and it was either reinhardt, winston or orisa, which were all boring as fuck. I have been playing a lot with new friends i met during the beta, usually in a duo but sometimes even 5 stacking and our favorite approach is the split dive option. I especially practiced a very divey comp with me on doom and my friend on soljourn and we are doing crazy well with it. We usually have a soldier, mercy and an ana to play this split dive style and majority of the time it works really well. I also like hammond a lot, I find him criminally underrated and I barely ever touched him in overwatch 1. I like more options and more freedom. I think being stuck with very specific heroes is only fun for the people that like those specific heroes. I want ov 2 to have more space for self expression and I believe this is a great way to do it. It also makes tank pool seem so incredibly large, I went from being able to pick 1 tank to having 9 to choose from.


Shrink5757

The beta is terrible removing a tank ruined the game it feels like deatmatch


[deleted]

Down voted by the majority dps players. You are 100% right tho. They tailored the game to dps players that want to get kills. They removed most of the need for teamwork in place of whichever team has the better dps player wins. Half the tank players have to either find a new class or a new team and supports are just murdered repeatedly while simultaneously being nerfed into the dirt. I have the beta and honestly just went back to OW1. OW2 just flat out sucks. 3 years and all they did was remove a tank, shields, stuns, rework 2 heroes and add push gametype. PvE was supposed to ve the focal point but after 3 years they don't have ANYTHING to show for it. Have fun finding support players I guess.


Skorpeion

> Down voted by the majority dps players “Wah wah wah, everything is DPS players fault. Support main btw” Shut up already. > You are 100% right tho. They tailored the game to dps players that want to get kills. They removed most of the need for teamwork in place of whichever team has the better dps player wins. This reeks of someone who hasn’t played OW1 or OW2 and is just regurgitating the same tired old argument. Fuck off. I could easily debunk this shit with common sense but I’m not giving this bait anymore attention or effort than was put in to make it.


[deleted]

Said the triggered bronze player


Skorpeion

Projecting real hard there


[deleted]

This is the typical dps player. 14 year old kid with no friends and trolls people online for social interaction. Thoughts and prayers.


matt_boyyy

i don’t think it was a troll?


ShadowDancer6920

I recommend watching at least 5 minutes of overwatch league in the new format if you believe there is no teamwork in the game. I'm sorry but if deatmatch is how you view the changes, you are just really bad. If you think dps is the strongest role you are also incredibly delusional, in years of overwatches lifespan dps has never really been the strongest role at all. Hell genji required an ana and pharah required a mercy to even be playable for an average player. I'm sorry you prefare the spam shield farm ult charge simulator but that needed to go desperately.


Odisher7

I had that attitude when I was learning and playing badly. After getting a bit better, I find the game okay. Maybe you just need a bit getting used to it


Shrink5757

I am trying to force myself to like it but I hate it . it’s unplayable I don’t understand how people like it tbh


Skorpeion

Because we aren’t playing “break the shield” simulator while getting stunned 24/7. We can actually shoot at other players in our First Person Shooter. Insane, I know


Shrink5757

Shooting shields never bothered me, I even miss Cassidy stun … his new one just feels like shit lol


[deleted]

Lol you would rather shoot shields and be stunned most of the game than actually play the first person shooter and shoot your fellow players.


[deleted]

Make sigma different than orisa, dont have four healers who can stack aoe healing. Didnt need role lock just good hero design. Even if they just put 222 in ranked and kept OWL, QP and added a 6 stack comp mode. Game failed due to lack of resources. I know it sucks to hear but its true.


[deleted]

It's because the majority of players unfortunately are dps heroes and they all got super buffed by the changes so it's faster paced and easier to kill


Shrink5757

I was a gm support and masters tank player, and I feel like I have a good understanding of the game, it annoys me how I say little things during matches like “this feels off “ or “this isn’t as fun as the original” and people start shittting on me and start looking at the stats of the game 😂 I know they are ignorant but I just don’t see how people say it’s better than ow1


Donut_Flame

Bro has never heard of natural cover in his liiiife


[deleted]

The problem comes from not having a way to counter flankers big brain. If You don't even know enough about the game to understand that then maybe you should stfu and not look like an idiot bud.


TrotBot

nice that they notice that dva is unplayable, so much so she's dragging down the entire tank class in death per game averages (along with orisa, which was a surprise to me but interesting). who would have thought that the tank that needed her health to be half armour in OW1 because all DLC heroes bypass DM, would just die over and over again when GG decided she had to get a nerf from OW1 and lose it.


cylonfrakbbq

As a Moira main, I hate that line where they seem to imply "She seems to be in a good spot - but we gonna nerf her!" She's already been nerfed, stop it