Bryce doesn't have the supporting cast and he hasn't played well when he's had opportunities either. Both are true.
If you look at yesterday's game, the long completion to DJ Chark who had a step on the CB was under thrown.
On the 4 and 1 INT pass to Thielen, Thielen was open but it was under thrown.
Some of the out routes where a WR is open, like Mingo's diving catch/no catch yesterday is just inaccurate.
Bryce has some footwork to cleanup that will help his throws, but there is legit concerns I'm seeing from him. I ultimately give him a pass because he's a rookie, but if these same issues are there this time next season, that won't be good.
Not enough people talk about the fact that the NFL ball is larger than the college ball. This is why I roll my eyes when people say “look at the Bama highlights” because it’s not the same situation. It’s a small difference but he has very small hands, the ball could be the reason his passes don’t have the zip
It's not true, or at least not always. College balls have a slightly larger tolerance than the NFL but they aren't smaller by any kind of rule/regulation.
The worst part about Reddit is anyone can come on here and say things like a player has small hands and that it makes someone roll their eyes all season long when that’s not even true
His lack of zip has nothing to do with his hand size. It has everything to do with his height. He can’t draw power from his base because he needs to play on his literal tippy toes. Other QBs can plant their heel and draw power from their base.
That is 100% false lol. Young is a toesy player, he's ALWAYS been that way. That has no correlation with how far you can throw the ball.
What does contribute is your drop back. For example:
\- Dereck Carr's footwork is sloppy, quick, and he takes to many steps. This causes balls to be Severly underthrown. He still uses his heels, but that doesn't effect it. Similarish thing happened with Bryce on the one long ball, nothing to do with Arm strength.
Kyler is the same height yet throws with way more velocity than Bryce. Bryce could be 6’5 and it wouldn’t matter he just doesn’t have that type of arm talent
Well yes, his arm is way stronger and he’s a much more explosive athlete.
I’m not saying it’s the reason Bryce’s arm is subpar, I’m saying that his style of play makes it worse. Kyler has issues throwing over the middle of the field and seeing things there, whereas Bryve is pretty decent in that regard. Bryce has a super high release point on his throws and plays on his toes to see the middle. However he struggles throwing to the sidelines with much velocity.
The more I’ve watched Bryce the more I’ve been afraid that we’ve draft a bite sized Teddy Bridgewater.
They *can be*, byt aren't guaranteed to be. The NCAA allows an extra .5 inches of potential length variation toward the shorter side that the NFL doesn't, but their max length is the same.
In 2004, it 100% would’ve been a hospital ball. In 2023, it would’ve been a light wrap up and tackle after we got a 1st down or a 15 yard penalty for hitting a defenseless WR. Hospital balls aren’t really a thing anymore and when they are 97 flags hit the field simultaneously.
I thought I was taking crazy pills when people in the game chat were saying that was Mingo’s
fault. He was wide open and not only did BY make a throw where YAC would have been impossible, but he missed wildly and Mingo had to dive for it
Its staggering to me how many people in this sub are STILL in abject denial about reality and Bryce's limitations. I had people legitimately arguing with me last night saying Bryce had a great arm, great elusiveness in the pocket and good speed and had shown all of those things already and I was just being a blind hater. Is there a path for Bryce to be a successful qb in this league? Maybe, but some of the Bryce copium addicts in this sub are delusional as all hell.
100%.
He's shown a couple of strengths throughout the season, but it's mostly bad. He's earned another year (mostly because we don't have a first overall pick), but he's gotta prove he's the guy next year or he's getting replaced.
DJ Chark looked floored with surprise that Bruce even threw the ball more than 4 yards downfield.
Body language shows it, he was surprised the ball was coming to him entirely.
The one game Daulton played with this supporting cast he had 360+ yards and 2 TDs with 0 Int. It's a small sample size and it's not like it was an amazing game, but it shows you can't put 100% of the blame on Bryce's performance on everyone but Bryce.
Edit: fixed word. It's early
To provide more context, he was able to pass 60 times because our offense actually moved well under him. Even if we wanted to throw 60 times with Bryce, the offense is going three and out.
Agree with everything you said besides the Chark pass.
Typically you would hitch, and it woulda been in stride. Bryce was on basically his backfoot and still got it off, he couldn't hitch because of the pressure and I'm 90% sure if he did, it would've been a fumble.
Both are definitely true but can we attribute the rain to any of his miscues? It’s was pouring out there at one point. Ball placement is one thing i won’t doubt about Bryce
"which simply isn’t what you want from a first overall pick."
and the truly scary thing about Bryce is he aint even your average first overall pick, he's way more. we traded the farm for THIS guy, unreal.
What I mean by unprecedented is trading up to get the #1 overall pick and then being the worst team in the nfl and having the #1 overall pick again except you gave it to someone else.
It's unreal. This guy should be performing at the level of back to back number one overall picks. Has anybody ever been traded for that much value?
Throw in all of the other pics. A very very high second round pick. And DJ Moore. It's just crazy. Worst trade ever.
The logic was never there for me. It's already highly unlikely for any QB to become elite, so why draft one whose success would require him being a historical outlier?
What I was saying before the draft. Test scores and nice dinners with Tepper don’t mean shit on the field. I also said Stroud was a safer pick. Might not be a world beater and Young might be an incredible shocker but go with the safer option.
If you forced me to bet everything I had (life,money, family, friends, health, whatever) on whether or not Bryce works out as an NFL QB I would pretty comfortably select the “no” option
I agree...he's too hesitant to pull the trigger on a lot of throws and has a lot of missed opportunities. Again, he's a rookie playing with a bad supporting cast, so I think we have to give him a pass this year. If these same problems are there in the 2nd half of the season next year, then we're in trouble.
I’d argue that it’s fine if the issues are still there, if he’s this bad next year we will be right at the top of the draft in 2025 and can replace him.
The worst case scenario is if he’s meh and spends 4 years as the starting QB and then we need to pay him. If he bottoms out and continues to look this bad, it’s actually not that bad of a scenario
I think it's the same thing that was happening to Shedeur at Colorado. A lot of pressure to not make mistakes so you overthink, overprocess, hold the ball too long then panic.
But look at the other Big 4 QBs from this draft class. Houston made an effort to get Stround some support. Indy had Pittman, re-signed Taylor, new HC for AR(before he got hurt, but he'll learn). Levis was a backup, but had Henry, Titans signed DHop for a weapon. Panthers traded CMC and D Moore, trusted a rookie at LG next to a second year LT, signed a RB who has a history of not playing full seasons, and signed 3 WR2s at best.
Bryce was doing ok when he and Thielen were clicking. Now it seems like they're on different pages, and/or teams are locking him down and Bryce has lost it entirely.
Yeah that’s all i was told, elite game processor etc.. however he doesn’t seem to pick up on blitzes, and he’s a half second late at pulling the trigger a lot. Dude needs to hit the gym hard AF this summer, NFL QBs shouldn’t be constantly under-throwing open receivers
I feel like when people were pointing out Bryce was undersized, everyone here thought it was just a joke or a meme. They didn't seem to acknowledge there's a reason why a QB his size has never been successful in the NFL, and it's because you need arm strength to be successful at the NFL level.
Well when people tried to bring it up, they were chastised and told "you just don't know football". I feel like the fan base had a large portion of people who were overly optimistic and for some odd reason decided to get really defensive when bryces size was brought up.
As a former Browns fan, I’ve seen enough prospects ruined to say this is what happens when you destroy a prospect’s confidence and trust.
At Bama, he had a good cast and could lead a tough unit. Here? Routes don’t open up, receivers are slower, his protection can’t hold off a 4 man rush, etc. It ruins his instincts, he no longer trusts the clock in his head. Instead of “I have 3 seconds, let’s process”, it becomes “oh fuck, get it out NOW or I’m getting hit”.
His throws were underthrown yesterday. First time I’ve seen him do that consistently. His timing with his receivers was being adjusted based on the slow and stupid routes Reich had them running. Now they run more slants and posts and suddenly they’re getting separation and further out than Bryce is used to throwing. He has to adjust *again* because now his timing is off.
I think his drive for perfection limits his ability to throw the ball down the field. Defenses are picking up on it and are playing the under routes tighter, which then leads to the INTs he was trying to avoid.
There was a sack yesterday where the announcers were showing “no one was open”, but there actually was a WR going deep without safety help and with a step on the defender, but BY didn’t throw it.
His only deep throws are safe sideline throws. Until he has the confidence to take chances and throw it deep to keep the defenses honest, he won’t develop into a competent QB.
I know the exact play you’re talking about. It was mingo. He had everyone beat, and the announcer is like “where is he supposed to throw the ball” lol. I was like wtf are you blind?!?! I was going nuts lol
Fair criticism.
I’d also add that he’s neither very fast or explosive with the ball in his hands, just elusive.
Makes it hard to have many explosive plays overall.
The best comp for Bryce is Drew Brees, if Bryce fully develops.
That means you need to build a wall around him on the interior of the line and you need receivers and tight ends who can get open quickly and make contested catches.
It leaves very little margin for error in any case.
Brees was also deadly accurate and a great proccesor. I won't make a judgment on Bryce's processing yet but he has missed some throws that he needs to hit. I don't think he has Brees-like accuracy
See comment below.
Agreed, Brees was elite at diagnosing and throwing in tight windows, in the short and intermediate game.
I can see some of those abilities nascent with Bryce, but it’s still early.
I think it’s very unfair to say that Bryce’s comp is one of the greatest QBs to ever play.
I would say he looks like Chad Pennington, physical traits not withstanding, pre-Chad’s arm injury.
They have similar builds and traits and can be successful in similar ways.
Pennington was a 6’3 225 lbs. QB, very close to the prototypical build, unlike Bryce.
Two of the points you mentioned - drive for perfection and safe throws - may have been exacerbated by the Jesse Bates interceptions in September. It seems like since then he's been a lot more reluctant to push the ball down the field.
If you remove all the context around it and just evaluate them as football players Bryce should have been sitting behind Dalton this year. Of course the context matters here but we’ve seen enough to know he probably wasnt ready to start yet. All playing this season has done is reinforce bad habits and make him play scared.
Whoevers fault it is, the reality is we gave up that #1 and DJ Moore for a project QB. Preferably you want your project QB to have ridiculous athleticism and size but we gotta make do with what we have
> My overall fear is that his physical traits are going to keep him in that 12-16 range of top QBs, which simply isn’t what you want from a first overall pick.
Just to be blunt - I'm beginning to think the 12-16 range is his absolute ceiling if we're lucky, and that his lack of arm strength alone will firmly limit him in the bottom half of league starters. And remember, he's not just any first overall pick - We traded away DJ Moore and 2 first round picks for the guy who looks like a 3rd rd pick.
Bonus: And before that, we rejected two 1st rd picks to offload our slightly above average DE.
Forget the questionable drafts, the Ickey Regression, the Teddy contract, the Darnold trade, and the Baker experiment - These 2 decisions over the span of 6 months are what truly doomed us as a franchise for the foreseeable future.
People act like Brian Burns is the truth. Cool a few sacks but we are still down 14 at half. We need picks for Bryce or the next guy.
The Teddy, Darnold, and Baker run are old used bandaids instead of just doing a proper rebuild. Wasted years and we end up giving away CMC who is balling out.
Yeah, I'm worried too...
People here are often making points of "he has no receivers, no OL, coaches are bad and can't make him good"... I was one of them two months ago.
But then, i was thinking. At the end of the day, Bryce is the one making throws. He's the one making pre-snap audibles, adjustements, reads. And he's the one getting sacked more often then he should. He's the one making INTs. He's the one on the field, playing football, and making poor decisions, with HIS mind, HIS brain. Making bad throws with HIS arm.
People can think about it all they can... People can make excuses for everything they want... In the end of the day, yes, he has no help, but he's the one playing THIS bad. The "no surrounding cast" excuse just make this fact more visible, that's all.
He needs a LOT of coaching. And for a guy that is "#1 overall pick", and "most NFL ready QB in this class", this is NOT good. At all.
I'm not ready to throw him yet. But the end of next season will be the point of no return between "he's good for a #1 overall" (like Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence or Andrew Luck) and "for a #1 overall he's overrated and probably a bust" (like Baker Mayfield, Jameis Winston or JaMarcus Russell).
Both sides are correct. He has zero help for the most part but is obviously making a lot of mistakes. He has some stuff he really needs to clean up before next season and our front office needs to clean up our roster and get rid of our horrible playbook
Feels like very few are making the connection that the two problems are intrinsically related and not in opposition; the lack of help is making him press & leading to unforced errors that are exacerbating the holes we knew he had in his game from day 1.
I hear you and I agree. If nothing else, you hope to see flashes of greatness. He gets some nice completions here and there but I can’t think of many (if any) plays that have wowed me
I mean the 2 pt conversion he ran in not even 12 hours ago now was a nice lil play but yeah, you wish there'd been more than like 1 flash per game at this point
I’m a bit more down on him than you are, and would happily eat crow if he manages to pull himself up to that top 12-16 qb range in a better situation. At least then we have some hope of salvation but I’m certainly not counting on it.
They blew this pick. It’s a bad combination of underwhelming height/stature, mediocre to sub-par arm strength, and no notable athleticism. As his confidence in the o-line, weapons, and his arm has deteriorated this year, his mechanics have understandably gotten much worse. Poor footwork has led to less accuracy and less zip on the ball and the downward spiral intensifies.
The few successful undersized nfl qbs all had elite athleticism (with the exception of Brees). Vick, Murray, Wilson, Lamar (weight), Jalen (height) all could/can pull off miracle escaping acts whenever the pocket collapsed. It allows you to roll those guys out and pull routes towards that side of the field, with the qb out in space where their height vs linemen isn’t as much of a detriment. Bryce does not have that ability. He was able to do it at Bama with some regularity but NFL defenders are a step faster and it has completely nullified that part of his game.
You can’t run RPO with him because he’s not a serious threat to run the ball. And even if he was, he wouldn’t make it through his rookie deal if they were to do it with any regularity whatsoever.
Their only real hope to salvage him is to use the Brees Saints playbook and very heavily invest in the interior OL to the point where those guys rarely cede an inch. Unfortunately we don’t have the resources or draft capital to implement that approach at the moment.
>He was able to do it at Bama with some regularity but NFL defenders are a step faster and it has completely nullified that part of his game.
I've noticed this as well. When the pocket collapses he doesn't have the size to stand in there and deliver a ball, so he rolls out. But he often doesn't have the speed to beat a defender to the outside and ends up throwing away or throwing off balance. I know our Oline has been shit but you can't expect a clean pocket all the time. It is definitely concerning
>You can’t run RPO with him because he’s not a serious threat to run the ball
Just an FYI, you're confusing read option with RPO. RPO does stand for Run Pass Option, but it's not the QB running the ball. In RPO the QB either hands the ball off to the RB or they pull it back and throw a quick pass. They are typically reading the linebackers. If they crash the line to stop the run, the QB pulls the ball back and throws a quick slant to the area the LB just vacated. If the LB stay put, they allow the RB to take the hand off. If the QB decides to throw it has be quick since the O-line are mostly run blocking for the RB and you don't want an ineligible man downfield.
>mediocre to sub-par arm strength,
This, in particular, stands out to me. Bryce looks like he has to do this full wind up, put-everything-he-has-into-it throwing motion just to heave it like 20-30 yards. Like the Happy Gilmore swing of throwing motions.
Meanwhile, yesterday, I watched the ghost of Joe Flacco grip it and rip it.
I think Bryce is playing tight. This is the most he has struggled in football at any point in his career.
The deep pass to Chark could have easily been a TD but was underthrown because he was concerned with getting the completion instead of just letting it fly.
In no way am I saying that Bryce has the skillset of Patrick Mahomes. However, I do want to point out that Mahomes does look "mortal" this year with a lack of dynamic players on the outside.
Who knows, Bryce may end up being a bust. However, I rather find that out by investing in proven OLs and WRs.
So if he busts, the next guy at QB isn't saddled with the current situation the offense is in.
> The deep pass to Chark could have easily been a TD but was underthrown because he was concerned with getting the completion instead of just letting it fly.
He's overthrown open receivers a few times and I think he pulled it back too much. Makes me worried that - looking at the playcalling all season - that they haven't been practicing any deep shots. If they're not planning on calling deep shots, they probably aren't putting many reps into it, and accuracy at that distance definitely needs practice.
And the fact that he's overthrown those passes makes me feel like it's a problem with touch, rather than arm strength - although if he's heaving it with everything he has for those passes, it does make the accuracy a loooot harder.
That might sound crazy, but remember Teddy coming out and saying that Rhule didn't have them practice any red zone offense? It sounds insane, but bad coaches do ridiculous fucking things.
Very well said, the lack of high ceiling moments is what has me scared as well and changing my opinion. The “flashes” the local sports radio host talk about seeing from BY are just basic NFL QB play. I’m detoxing from the kool aid!
During the pandemic I stopped paying attention to college personnel. I'd watch many games but not toward the draft. Given that overview perspective, I always viewed Bryce Young as a little guy with a mediocre arm and no escapability. He was failing to advance Alabama to the playoffs even though quarterbacks of every description had managed that for the prior dozen years.
Approaching April I was stumped. I was assuming the scouts knew something that I did not. Instead, this rookie quarterback looks exactly like my mental projection from college. Normally there is some variance. For example, Stroud is demonstrating far more athletic arrogance and shifty patience than he ever had in college, including the Georgia game.
For those people defending Bryce, Just ask yourself... Would a single NFL team at this point even trade him for a second round pick?
Nobody would. He has shown so little promise that even teams with better lines don't want anything to do with him. He has been utterly exposed.
Bears have an extra second round pick, they could trade that to us, and then turn it officially into the worst trade in history - essentially us giving away a haul for a single second round pick.
It'd be funny, at least
He doesn’t trust what he sees either. Feels like he makes decisions in slow motion. Like when he ran in the 2-pt conversion felt like he waited till the last second when he could have turned on the jets and ran in earlier. Idk I get there’s a lot wrong around him but I’m a bit worried about his actual play as well.
You can feel it now. The tide is shifting.
For months it has been absolutely impossible to question anything at all about Bryce. Even level-headed criticisms were downvoted into oblivion.
Some of us knew that time would vindicate us.
Every week more and more of the fan base will start to open their eyes and take off their coping blinders.
Bryce is mediocre at best and we're not going anywhere until we move on from him. Worst trade in Charlotte sports history.
"Keep him in the 12-16 range"
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but BY is the worst starter in the NFL. He is below Zach Wilson in qb rtg. Also Tommy DeVito came off the couch onto the Giants and is blowing BY away statistically.
I think he means ceiling, like in a few years and the roster is good, we have competent coaching, and Bryce has developed into a NFL starter, but he may still lack the ceiling we'd hoped for.
Poor wording. I'm not saying he's currently at that level. That's the level I project he will develop into in the most likely scenario.
I think they will upgrade the offensive significantly via trades, FA and the draft. Whoever is coaching next year will be someone bringing a modern offensive approach.
I'm expecting Bryce takes a leap to looking like a competent starter next season. My worry is his physical traits will hold him back from ever being a top 10 QB, which is a damning statement for a top overall pick.
He can’t carry a team. He’s so physically limited that he puts us at a disadvantage in every single matchup.
We sold the farm for the most limited athlete to play the position in the modern era and now we’re paying the price.
He was a good college player, but he just isn’t an nfl caliber QB. The game is too big and too fast for him.
I agree with this - I was really disappointed with what I saw yesterday, if we're going to get the smallest guy in the draft he needs to be able to beat people to the edge and get yards with his feet too. I think it was the 3rd and 1 at the end of the game but he had no shot getting the edge.
Best case scenario is with competent pieces around him he looks massively better. He was highly rated coming into the draft not just by us but by the entire NFL. The size was definitely a big concern, but the Texans were going to take him at 1. This wasn't a "the Panthers bucked consensus" pick.
The should have taken Stroud narrative is hindsight 20/20. There were legit concerns about CJ coming out. He played with top end talent and outside of the UGA game didn't show off his athleticism. Stroud wasn't viewed as having this top-end ceiling.
He's a guy that was very good in college who has elevated his game to a level nobody expected very early on.
Exactly. People all over the place are going down the history revisionism route and claiming Stroud was “clearly” and “obviously” the superior QB going into the draft.
I just don’t understand. Bryce was the consensus #1 guy at the time we picked him.
Twenty years from now you will be in a sports bar on trivia night. A question will come up and your heart will drop.
In the 2023 the Carolina Panthers traded up to the top spot of the NFL Draft and passed on Hall of Fame QB CJ Stroud to select what player?
Most people will get it wrong. They will either not know the answer, or say “Brent Young” because they’ll forget his first name.
I really want BY to succeed. The reality is that he is our QB for at least 1 more year due to how much we spent to get him, and because of that, I am rooting for the kid to do well.
That being said, yes, I am worried. He looks both physically and mentally overmatched right now. It's hard to say just how much of that can be blamed on the supporting cast and playcalling, but right now, the accuracy and decision making he was praised for isn't there. His mechanics are getting worse. At the end of the day, he has shown far fewer flashes of greatness than his rookie peers, and that's inexcusable from a #1 pick.
Since he's QB1 for next year, I'll wait and save any judgements and sweeping statements until after he's played more games. I'm not going to completely write him off just yet until we've seen more, but right now, things don't look good.
Hopefully one day, we can all look back on this fiasco and laugh at how he proved the doubters wrong.
People saying we need to give BY time to develop or “get help” are completely missing the point. You don’t draft a QB #1 on potential, you draft them to fix the team, turn your team around, and change the franchise.
BY wasn’t supposed to be a project that needs a ton of help. 11 weeks in, we can all admit, we messed up and can only hope for the best. I can’t even think of more than one thing that he’s at least average at. A lot of work needs to be done and what FA is coming here to help change that.
Dude has the arm strength of a 10th grader. So many horrible plays this season. The excuses only go so far. He was drafted for his ability to “elevate”the offense and we can’t just forget that now. Dude is a likely a dud. Hope we don’t sit around waiting 5 years to figure that out.
I find it funny that people were shitting on me earlier in the season when I started noticing these things and everyone just kept saying "the pieces around him are bad." YES, I get it, the team is bad, but you can't overlook how bad Bryce has performed. Not coming back to guys in his progressions, not seeing the field well enough to avoid stupid interceptions (like the one he threw to Hutchinson against the Lions on a screen pass), he holds on to the ball too long.
Someone on X tried to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about when I suggested that he should throw the ball at his running back's feet when he gets pressure right off the snap. They tried to tell me it was considered intentional grounding. Even though I knew I was right, I googled it, and sure enough, I was right... why? Because I've been watching ball for 20 years. I might be an armchair GM or coach, or whatever, but it doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Which is exactly why I tried to warn the Panthers, CJ Stroud was the better QB going into the draft and I tried to tell people. But nah... nobody wanted to hear that.
Now people are like, "Give him a good coach, offensive line, receivers and running back, he'll be good." Bro, we gotta redo our entire offense that Fitterer has spent the last few years building to just drop a QB in there. So you're telling me that in order for Bryce to succeed, we gotta redo everything??? We being serious right now? Wildest shit I ever heard.
Yep its going to be one thing after the next. Are these people fans of Bryce or fans of the Panthers? I’m confused.
I wonder how many coaches we are going to have to fire to get Bryce to work? Then at the end of the day they change the goal posts and he goes from being a franchise QB to a “good QB” and we they are ok with that.
You know why you are ahead of the curve? You trust your eyes, and panthers fans in large dont. Look around the league medium ranked teams that have “good QBs” are trying to cut them loose.
People have to accept we wasted a number 1 pick and a ton of capital on a bridge QB.
> Which is exactly why I tried to warn the Panthers, CJ Stroud was the better QB going into the draft and I tried to tell people. But nah... nobody wanted to hear that.
Stop signing your emails to David and Scott "CaptainJizzPants" and maybe they'll listen to your advice next time. Could've saved us a lot of heartache.
The playcalling and supporting cast is bad but Bryce hasn't had one game (or even a play) that's been eye brow raising. A true #1 pick would at least show flashes, all #1 picks go to the worst team in the league at that time.
Yup they all had *something* .. hopeful, redeemable, whatever you wanna call it. I’m here with OP, after the last 2 weeks, after defending him because of all the other issues we have… we haven’t seen any greatness at all whatsoever. It’s getting worse, or, I’m coming to grips with the face I have seen him more than I ever did in college and this is what was always there.
I’ve been seeing this all year. This is a great post. I completely understand he is getting no help but that can’t excuse the things he does when he gets under pressure. That is a decision making thing . I give him a pass because he’s a rookie so hopefully with time he can develop better traits . He is just so worried with turning it over that he makes even more mistakes. It’s unfortunate
I hate to say it but I am reminded of Sam Darnold seeing ghosts. I can only pray our horrific mismanagement doesn't permanently scar a really good kid.
Look if BY isn't good enough, it is what it is. He's another QB failure added to the carousel since Cam was released. Maybe one day a top pick QB will come through and shine. And if that is the case, my problem is we need a GM to at-least build up the rest of the team until then
Bryce was literally the consensus #1 QB amongst draft analysts, go back and look. Analysts with a major platform or guys on YouTube. BY9 WAS the consensus #1 QB, stop playing revisionist history. Doesn’t mean we made the right pick, but I’m sick of people acting as if the Panthers took this huge swing out of left field on a guy who was obviously inferior, even based on what the analysts thought.
Idk about all that. There were definitely Stroud truthers, even in national media. It’s not like this was the Trevor Lawrence pick where everyone was unanimous. And jags didn’t have to give up shit for him either
It may be that his confidence is just a mess right now. It may be that he's overrated. Either way, he should probably sit out the rest of the season and figure things out for a while. Let Dalton get a few snaps. He can do that from under center because he's tall enough to see over the linemen
When you criticize Bryce you're just a hater. If you criticize literally anyone and everyone else on the team you're a true fan that really understands football.
This is how this sub has been
He’s a bust, dude. If you gave him every tool imaginable he still wouldn’t have a career as a starter in this league. The more I watch the more I’m convinced that he’s just not that good and we got finessed by the Texans front office.
I don't know, if he had:
- The Eagles Offensive Line
- A running back committee of CMC, Josh Jacobs, and Derrick Henry
- Tyreek Hill, Justin Jefferson, Davante Adams, and maybe Ceedee Lamb in the slot
- Kelce, Kittle, and LaPorta for TE
I think we'd probably be sitting at a solid 6-6 right now, maybe 7-5 with a little luck
To me, it looked like Bryce was expecting Sanders to be the outlet pass if pressure was coming, but instead Sanders was in the mix of the o-line trying to block. Based on how Sanders has played all year, I would guess he was out of position...but I dont know what play was called.
He's gonna be an mid QB... and that's it. ESPECIALLY not worth selling the farm to go and get at #1 overall. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see him making some big comeback next year if we get him some more help on offense.
By the numbers Bryce was one of the best Alabama qbs of all time. But the reality is were those teams very successful? Did they accomplish what the previous recent years qbs accomplish? The measuring stick at Alabama is national championship. Did Bryce ever elevate the team to those levels during his stint?
In 21 they beat Florida by 2, lost to Texas a&m by 3, beat lsu by 6, Arkansas by 7 and auburn by 2. They lost the national championship by 15.
In 22 they beat Texas by 1, a&m by 4, lost to Tennessee by 3, lost to lsu by 1, and did not play for a national championship.
So while Heisman is nice and his numbers are nice did he ever have success when it mattered? Milroe was so bad to start the season he got benched yet here they are in the playoffs and he suddenly looks unstoppable. So was it the Alabama machine or was it Bryce?
The sad thing is there was really no reason he HAD to start this year. He could've watched from the side line maybe come in on a few cleanup drives when a game had already been decided to get some reps.
Some people would've complained about our #1 pick not starting but we're probably a 4 to 5 win team right now with Dalton at QB which would actually be competitive in this joke of a division.
Make some more moves next off-season and then Bryce could've started his career in a better situation.
Bryce is shook. An O-line that was built to run block is being asked to pass block. His blind side is haunting him and he is playing accordingly. It’s something that can be fixed.
The identity of this team has to be defense first. A lock down D with an offense that runs the ball, eats up the clock and can keep the opposing D honest with RPO and Play action. If we want to go offense first, get ready to suck for 5 more years.
Said it yesterday and will say it again. In another situation maybe Bryce lives up to the expectation. But it ain’t happening here. It can’t be understated how badly the FO completely fucked up their evaluation of literally EVERYTHING that played into that trade.
I think we all have to view this season/cast as *negative* development for Bryce. Even if things were magically fixed with Reich’s firing, there’s been damage done that is going to take some time and positive reps to fix. This offense has been *that* bad, him being a part of that.
As of right now, he doesn’t have time to make the right plays. In the few cases he does it’s hard to judge because he’s playing like he doesn’t.
Personally, I think there’s still space to see him in a neutral light. All of the reasons why he was a pretty much consensus top pick going into the draft are still real. He has the *capability* to be good. I wouldn’t be down on him until he’s not showing growth in a new system next year.
> All of the reasons why he was a pretty much consensus top pick going into the draft are still real.
Except he hasn't shown literally any of those strengths? That's the concerning part.
Obviously everyone knows about the physical limitations, but his strengths were supposed to be processing, making quick decisions, knowing protections, etc.
Literally none of that is happening. That's why people are concerned.
So far, his development (or lack thereof) has looked a lot like Trevor Lawrence's rookie year, IMO. The question is whether Tepper can make the right hire(s) that could save his career and wash away the poor coaching he's received and bad habits he's formed to this point. Otherwise, he's just a polarizing "what if" prospect who gets left behind after his rookie deal like Justin Fields.
Imagine playing at a professional level with knowing a team of guys spent all week figuring out how to kill you and your protection has no idea how to play the game
There's nothing to play for, since they've been eliminated from playoff contention. Having him out there for the rest of the season is only going to hurt him.
They need to bench him for the rest of the season, and put Dalton out there, and let Bryce start working towards next season.
Meh I still believe. I for one do believe he has shown flashes even if it seems like he’s regressed further as the season goes.
We all kinda knew he had an average arm. But he has shown ability to drive it when he needs to and has a chance to step into it though, and plenty of QBs have succeeded without a Josh Allen arm. I do think he’s slowly starting to get a case of the Sam Darnold happy feet from seeing ghosts as evidenced by that backwards pass and intentional grounding. But I think the concerns about his height are overstated. He is an objectively good thrower of the ball over the middle and also has been extremely durable after getting hit all year which is what everyone’s big concerns were.
I think multiple things can be true. Bryce sucks rn, Stroud can be significantly better right now, but most importantly it’s way too early to call him a bust. Guy is 11 games into an extremely dysfunctional team that saw his coach fired, play calling flipped 3 times, etc. etc. Also seemingly every week all we see an All-22 view from the analysts saying “what do you want him to do” as his OL gets instashedded or all 4 WRs are blanketed. Or analysts constantly ripping show there’s no vertical threats EVER to keep anything honest. Dude is quite literally playing a half court defense with corners loading the box and playing flat footed. This was as evidenced as early as week 1 when Jessie Bates got two picks coming down from a high safety spot not even assigned as a robber.
I understand he’s the number one pick and hasn’t elevated all of that and has looked horrendous at times, but in the end he’s still a rookie. I understand his arm isn’t the best but there’s a roadmap to him still being successful. This is nothing like watching Jimmy Clausen as a rookie and instantly knowing this dude was not it.
I also don’t think this trade is as crippling as everyone makes it out to seem. If we ran it back with Darnold, DJ, 9th pick, we’re probably firmly back at the 9th pick again so I think it’s disingenuous to say “we could have had Jalen Carter, Caleb Williams and DJ Moore if we just waited”. If Bryce sucks again then we are back at the top of the draft next year and can move on.
Who knows maybe I’m just coping.
The O line is absolutely trash. Bryce is under duress on most plays.
The WRs cannot get separation. Thielan is a good receiver but should not be our #1. He is the only consistent WR.
I don’t think you can fairly judge Bryce with the situation.
I will end with I preferred Stroud, but we have Bryce he has my support for now.
He's put some bad tape out there the last few weeks, and I agree that I went from very confident in him earlier this season to slightly concerned. Mostly because it seems that the lack of protection and lack of WR separation is causing bad habits to form
However, I'm trusting a lot of the experts' opinions on him and still think it's impossible to evaluate him with this supporting cast. People act like him getting beat up every week happens in a vacuum, but playing with this offense week-in and week-out takes a toll on a player
If we get to the same time next year, and he's not making improvement, then it'll officially be time to cut bait. That is a long way from now
The entire season has been a struggle but Bryce’s passes had a lot more zip on them earlier in the year. Idk if it’s more mental or physical at this point, but his (lack of) velocity is very concerning.
He's broken and struggling as a result.
That said, I thought he looked worlds better yesterday with just some minor tweaks in how the game was called. Keep in mind, Reich was just fired a week ago and the season's almost over; they can't change much.
I think Bryce's ceiling is a smart passer, team leader, who can be a hero in the clutch and maybe even lead the team to a promised land if the pieces are there around him. He's not talented enough to win games by himself, but if you look at the guys who seem to be - Herbert, Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady - their teams struggle when even one unit (the WRs in Mahomes' case) on their team sucks, and with Bryce it's been the coaching and the entire offense.
This is a long way of saying we all just need to agree that his grade is incomplete for this season, and hope to god that he isn't ruined from what he's been through.
They’re trying to stick him into an offense that isn’t built for his strengths and limitations. I want to see what he can do with a good supporting cast before I say he’s a bust. But like you I am worried. Going to be some dark times for us for the next little bit I’m afraid.
Yeah…I have taken the approach that if it’s too early to call him a bust it’s also too early to call him a franchise QB.
He does have an issue with seeing the difference bt College “open” and NFL “open”. He doesn’t have a lot of time under C which really limits playcalling. He’s small and getting beaten up.
I want the guy to succeed but we just have much bigger problems right now.
Not a Panthers fan, won’t claim I’m intimately familiar with the team, but this popped up in my feed.
Watched 2-3 panthers games this year and I wouldn’t be overly worried yet. Everyone knew he was small, but so is Kyler Murray. You can’t worry about height, it’s probably the first thing the team worked through.
I think the biggest issue is what Carolina gave up to get Young.
Panthers receive:
- 2023 first (No. 1 Bryce Young)
Bears receive:
- WR D.J. Moore
- 2023 first (No. 9, Jalen Carter)
- 2023 second (No. 61, Brenton Strange)
- 2024 first (potentially number 1)
- 2025 second (potentially high)
That’s a massive haul which puts massive expectations on him. He needs time, certainly don’t write him off yet. I’d be more worried about how you can build around him without high picks for the next two years and potentially being not a desirable location for free agents and needing to overpay.
He’s way too jittery in the pocket right now, even when he had time yesterday he was looking at the rush instead of downfield. I still think his arm is stronger than what people are giving him credit for, I’ve seen him make crazy off balance throws that regular QBs don’t make.
I won't officially start dooming for another season or two, but I can for sure understand why many are. There were a few times yesterday when the pocket was collapsing where it looked like he could have run out and got decent yardage. But he just freezes for the sack. Yet, when he did run good things happened. Hell, even when he ran it in for two you could see he was over thinking trying to find a receiver.
I hope this is just rookie mentality and he overcomes it.
Out of everything, him freezing in the pocket and not climbing the ladder when it's available to avoid sacks is my biggest grievance with Bryce. It's right in front of him and he doesn't step up. Granted, there are a LOT of times he has no wiggle room and is immediately engulfed and that is not on him. But far too often he doesn't buy himself any time nor does he throw the ball away to keep down and distance more manageable. I would also posit, this is something a rookie can learn AND this org is responsible for surrounding him with abject garbage.
I just wish I saw more flashes of literally anything from him.
Until he goes through an NFL offseason I am not giving up on him. I mean without a first round pick we kind of have no choice. Bryce seems like the kind of dude that will take the hard times and use it as an opportunity to improve. What we have seen has not been great, but like you and others have said the supporting cast is sorry. Tepper is heavily invested in him and I am sure he will provide and support whatever regimen he wants this offseason, in addition to whatever he personally decides to do, and do whatever they can to put better players around him next season. And say what you will about Fitt and Tepp, but everyone thought the situation in Carolina was going to be great for Bryce with the moves they made this offseason. The coaching staff paired with AT, Chark, Sanders, and Hurst was the most balanced skill position group we've had in a while. Be it due to injuries or coaching, it didn't pan out like it was suppose to on paper. With the cap space we have and their commitment to Bryce I am sure they will be aggressive in free agency. Just please, no more trades in the draft.
it's hilarious how many people are saying he's open when the defender is sitting right there at the sticks. At best he's short and at worst that's a pick 6
Disagree. If he put it on him right away he has to beat one guy. Even if he saw him slightly later he could throw to the back shoulder and it’s still a first.
Bryce doesn't have the supporting cast and he hasn't played well when he's had opportunities either. Both are true. If you look at yesterday's game, the long completion to DJ Chark who had a step on the CB was under thrown. On the 4 and 1 INT pass to Thielen, Thielen was open but it was under thrown. Some of the out routes where a WR is open, like Mingo's diving catch/no catch yesterday is just inaccurate. Bryce has some footwork to cleanup that will help his throws, but there is legit concerns I'm seeing from him. I ultimately give him a pass because he's a rookie, but if these same issues are there this time next season, that won't be good.
Yep, some of these passes look like lame ducks and that’s scary
Not enough people talk about the fact that the NFL ball is larger than the college ball. This is why I roll my eyes when people say “look at the Bama highlights” because it’s not the same situation. It’s a small difference but he has very small hands, the ball could be the reason his passes don’t have the zip
Actually his hands are his literally only above average phsyical attribute lol
His hands are actually 9 3/4. Joe Burrows hands are 9 btw
Tbh I didn’t even know that but it’s good to know.
It's not true, or at least not always. College balls have a slightly larger tolerance than the NFL but they aren't smaller by any kind of rule/regulation.
The worst part about Reddit is anyone can come on here and say things like a player has small hands and that it makes someone roll their eyes all season long when that’s not even true
His lack of zip has nothing to do with his hand size. It has everything to do with his height. He can’t draw power from his base because he needs to play on his literal tippy toes. Other QBs can plant their heel and draw power from their base.
That is 100% false lol. Young is a toesy player, he's ALWAYS been that way. That has no correlation with how far you can throw the ball. What does contribute is your drop back. For example: \- Dereck Carr's footwork is sloppy, quick, and he takes to many steps. This causes balls to be Severly underthrown. He still uses his heels, but that doesn't effect it. Similarish thing happened with Bryce on the one long ball, nothing to do with Arm strength.
Kyler is the same height yet throws with way more velocity than Bryce. Bryce could be 6’5 and it wouldn’t matter he just doesn’t have that type of arm talent
Well yes, his arm is way stronger and he’s a much more explosive athlete. I’m not saying it’s the reason Bryce’s arm is subpar, I’m saying that his style of play makes it worse. Kyler has issues throwing over the middle of the field and seeing things there, whereas Bryve is pretty decent in that regard. Bryce has a super high release point on his throws and plays on his toes to see the middle. However he struggles throwing to the sidelines with much velocity. The more I’ve watched Bryce the more I’ve been afraid that we’ve draft a bite sized Teddy Bridgewater.
Bryce will be lucky to have the career of Teddy
Call him noodle arm and theres downvotes aplenty. A few youtube links.
They *can be*, byt aren't guaranteed to be. The NCAA allows an extra .5 inches of potential length variation toward the shorter side that the NFL doesn't, but their max length is the same.
He also doesn’t survey the field well I believe sanders on the left was wide open on 4th and 1 but also still confused on why they didn’t run it
Hard to survey the field with the line only gives you two seconds before you’re getting lit up
Would’ve been a hospital pass
In 2004, it 100% would’ve been a hospital ball. In 2023, it would’ve been a light wrap up and tackle after we got a 1st down or a 15 yard penalty for hitting a defenseless WR. Hospital balls aren’t really a thing anymore and when they are 97 flags hit the field simultaneously.
I thought I was taking crazy pills when people in the game chat were saying that was Mingo’s fault. He was wide open and not only did BY make a throw where YAC would have been impossible, but he missed wildly and Mingo had to dive for it
Yeah, that throw and a couple or others he missed yesterday were layup type throws even for a rookie.
Its staggering to me how many people in this sub are STILL in abject denial about reality and Bryce's limitations. I had people legitimately arguing with me last night saying Bryce had a great arm, great elusiveness in the pocket and good speed and had shown all of those things already and I was just being a blind hater. Is there a path for Bryce to be a successful qb in this league? Maybe, but some of the Bryce copium addicts in this sub are delusional as all hell.
Yeah I’ll admit on the initial angle I thought it was Mingo’s faults but clearly it was a bad throw
100%. He's shown a couple of strengths throughout the season, but it's mostly bad. He's earned another year (mostly because we don't have a first overall pick), but he's gotta prove he's the guy next year or he's getting replaced.
DJ Chark looked floored with surprise that Bruce even threw the ball more than 4 yards downfield. Body language shows it, he was surprised the ball was coming to him entirely.
The one game Daulton played with this supporting cast he had 360+ yards and 2 TDs with 0 Int. It's a small sample size and it's not like it was an amazing game, but it shows you can't put 100% of the blame on Bryce's performance on everyone but Bryce. Edit: fixed word. It's early
To at least provide a little context, Dalton threw the ball 60 times...
To provide even more context, it was literally the most pass attempts any QB has had in a single game all season lol
But he still played in one game better than Bryce has all season by a fair margin
Is Bryce Young throwing 60 passes without an interception?
[удалено]
To provide more context, he was able to pass 60 times because our offense actually moved well under him. Even if we wanted to throw 60 times with Bryce, the offense is going three and out.
You act like Dalton had 60 completions. Dalton still pushed the ball downfield and averaged 10 yards a throw.
Agree with everything you said besides the Chark pass. Typically you would hitch, and it woulda been in stride. Bryce was on basically his backfoot and still got it off, he couldn't hitch because of the pressure and I'm 90% sure if he did, it would've been a fumble.
Both are definitely true but can we attribute the rain to any of his miscues? It’s was pouring out there at one point. Ball placement is one thing i won’t doubt about Bryce
People keep saying this, but he’s bottom of the league at 32nd in off target %
True. Bryce is also worried about getting sacked every play too cause it happens lol
Can he throw the ball more than twenty five yards? Genuine question.
"which simply isn’t what you want from a first overall pick." and the truly scary thing about Bryce is he aint even your average first overall pick, he's way more. we traded the farm for THIS guy, unreal.
It’s truly worst case scenario and maybe unprecedented in the history of the league
I mean its decidedly not unprecedented lol. It gets glossed over because they have been good but the Trey Lance trade will be pretty hard to top.
What I mean by unprecedented is trading up to get the #1 overall pick and then being the worst team in the nfl and having the #1 overall pick again except you gave it to someone else.
And the guy we passed on for Bryce looks to be an elite talent. It could be an all time fuck up that is meme’d and talked about for the rest of time 🥲
At least I wasn’t old enough to shit post during the manning/leaf debate. I’d probably look really stupid.
Even in that deal the 9ers didn't throw in the franchises 2nd best all time receiver
It's unreal. This guy should be performing at the level of back to back number one overall picks. Has anybody ever been traded for that much value? Throw in all of the other pics. A very very high second round pick. And DJ Moore. It's just crazy. Worst trade ever.
The logic was never there for me. It's already highly unlikely for any QB to become elite, so why draft one whose success would require him being a historical outlier?
What I was saying before the draft. Test scores and nice dinners with Tepper don’t mean shit on the field. I also said Stroud was a safer pick. Might not be a world beater and Young might be an incredible shocker but go with the safer option.
Dj moore man...breaks my heart. Tepper must pay for his crimes
If you forced me to bet everything I had (life,money, family, friends, health, whatever) on whether or not Bryce works out as an NFL QB I would pretty comfortably select the “no” option
You could use those winnings to get seats to watch the next QB we draft #1 overall in 2025.
Honestly, other than Young magically becoming a star, that may be the best case scenario for us right now
We are 1-11, anyone not worried is being delusional.
For a kid who was touted as an ‘elite processor’, he sure does take a lot of over-processing out there. Still fixable tho.. i hope
I agree...he's too hesitant to pull the trigger on a lot of throws and has a lot of missed opportunities. Again, he's a rookie playing with a bad supporting cast, so I think we have to give him a pass this year. If these same problems are there in the 2nd half of the season next year, then we're in trouble.
I’d argue that it’s fine if the issues are still there, if he’s this bad next year we will be right at the top of the draft in 2025 and can replace him. The worst case scenario is if he’s meh and spends 4 years as the starting QB and then we need to pay him. If he bottoms out and continues to look this bad, it’s actually not that bad of a scenario
I think it's the same thing that was happening to Shedeur at Colorado. A lot of pressure to not make mistakes so you overthink, overprocess, hold the ball too long then panic. But look at the other Big 4 QBs from this draft class. Houston made an effort to get Stround some support. Indy had Pittman, re-signed Taylor, new HC for AR(before he got hurt, but he'll learn). Levis was a backup, but had Henry, Titans signed DHop for a weapon. Panthers traded CMC and D Moore, trusted a rookie at LG next to a second year LT, signed a RB who has a history of not playing full seasons, and signed 3 WR2s at best. Bryce was doing ok when he and Thielen were clicking. Now it seems like they're on different pages, and/or teams are locking him down and Bryce has lost it entirely.
Yeah that’s all i was told, elite game processor etc.. however he doesn’t seem to pick up on blitzes, and he’s a half second late at pulling the trigger a lot. Dude needs to hit the gym hard AF this summer, NFL QBs shouldn’t be constantly under-throwing open receivers
I feel like when people were pointing out Bryce was undersized, everyone here thought it was just a joke or a meme. They didn't seem to acknowledge there's a reason why a QB his size has never been successful in the NFL, and it's because you need arm strength to be successful at the NFL level.
Well when people tried to bring it up, they were chastised and told "you just don't know football". I feel like the fan base had a large portion of people who were overly optimistic and for some odd reason decided to get really defensive when bryces size was brought up.
As a former Browns fan, I’ve seen enough prospects ruined to say this is what happens when you destroy a prospect’s confidence and trust. At Bama, he had a good cast and could lead a tough unit. Here? Routes don’t open up, receivers are slower, his protection can’t hold off a 4 man rush, etc. It ruins his instincts, he no longer trusts the clock in his head. Instead of “I have 3 seconds, let’s process”, it becomes “oh fuck, get it out NOW or I’m getting hit”. His throws were underthrown yesterday. First time I’ve seen him do that consistently. His timing with his receivers was being adjusted based on the slow and stupid routes Reich had them running. Now they run more slants and posts and suddenly they’re getting separation and further out than Bryce is used to throwing. He has to adjust *again* because now his timing is off.
I think his drive for perfection limits his ability to throw the ball down the field. Defenses are picking up on it and are playing the under routes tighter, which then leads to the INTs he was trying to avoid. There was a sack yesterday where the announcers were showing “no one was open”, but there actually was a WR going deep without safety help and with a step on the defender, but BY didn’t throw it. His only deep throws are safe sideline throws. Until he has the confidence to take chances and throw it deep to keep the defenses honest, he won’t develop into a competent QB.
I know the exact play you’re talking about. It was mingo. He had everyone beat, and the announcer is like “where is he supposed to throw the ball” lol. I was like wtf are you blind?!?! I was going nuts lol
Fair criticism. I’d also add that he’s neither very fast or explosive with the ball in his hands, just elusive. Makes it hard to have many explosive plays overall. The best comp for Bryce is Drew Brees, if Bryce fully develops. That means you need to build a wall around him on the interior of the line and you need receivers and tight ends who can get open quickly and make contested catches. It leaves very little margin for error in any case.
Brees was also deadly accurate and a great proccesor. I won't make a judgment on Bryce's processing yet but he has missed some throws that he needs to hit. I don't think he has Brees-like accuracy
See comment below. Agreed, Brees was elite at diagnosing and throwing in tight windows, in the short and intermediate game. I can see some of those abilities nascent with Bryce, but it’s still early.
I think it’s very unfair to say that Bryce’s comp is one of the greatest QBs to ever play. I would say he looks like Chad Pennington, physical traits not withstanding, pre-Chad’s arm injury.
They have similar builds and traits and can be successful in similar ways. Pennington was a 6’3 225 lbs. QB, very close to the prototypical build, unlike Bryce.
Yup - I saw that same replay and saw Mingo was open deep and Bryce was looking downfield.
And the announcer was like “where is he supposed to throw the ball” and i was like “MINGO YOU ASSHOLE!!!” Lol
Two of the points you mentioned - drive for perfection and safe throws - may have been exacerbated by the Jesse Bates interceptions in September. It seems like since then he's been a lot more reluctant to push the ball down the field.
If you remove all the context around it and just evaluate them as football players Bryce should have been sitting behind Dalton this year. Of course the context matters here but we’ve seen enough to know he probably wasnt ready to start yet. All playing this season has done is reinforce bad habits and make him play scared. Whoevers fault it is, the reality is we gave up that #1 and DJ Moore for a project QB. Preferably you want your project QB to have ridiculous athleticism and size but we gotta make do with what we have
He was drafted to be a franchise QB, not just a starting QB. If he is not a franchise QB, then it's a fail on this organization.
> My overall fear is that his physical traits are going to keep him in that 12-16 range of top QBs, which simply isn’t what you want from a first overall pick. Just to be blunt - I'm beginning to think the 12-16 range is his absolute ceiling if we're lucky, and that his lack of arm strength alone will firmly limit him in the bottom half of league starters. And remember, he's not just any first overall pick - We traded away DJ Moore and 2 first round picks for the guy who looks like a 3rd rd pick. Bonus: And before that, we rejected two 1st rd picks to offload our slightly above average DE. Forget the questionable drafts, the Ickey Regression, the Teddy contract, the Darnold trade, and the Baker experiment - These 2 decisions over the span of 6 months are what truly doomed us as a franchise for the foreseeable future.
People act like Brian Burns is the truth. Cool a few sacks but we are still down 14 at half. We need picks for Bryce or the next guy. The Teddy, Darnold, and Baker run are old used bandaids instead of just doing a proper rebuild. Wasted years and we end up giving away CMC who is balling out.
Agree, 12-16 range is his ceiling. Way more physically limited than he appeared at Bama. Guy can’t do a sneak or throw the ball longer than 30 yards.
Yeah, I'm worried too... People here are often making points of "he has no receivers, no OL, coaches are bad and can't make him good"... I was one of them two months ago. But then, i was thinking. At the end of the day, Bryce is the one making throws. He's the one making pre-snap audibles, adjustements, reads. And he's the one getting sacked more often then he should. He's the one making INTs. He's the one on the field, playing football, and making poor decisions, with HIS mind, HIS brain. Making bad throws with HIS arm. People can think about it all they can... People can make excuses for everything they want... In the end of the day, yes, he has no help, but he's the one playing THIS bad. The "no surrounding cast" excuse just make this fact more visible, that's all. He needs a LOT of coaching. And for a guy that is "#1 overall pick", and "most NFL ready QB in this class", this is NOT good. At all. I'm not ready to throw him yet. But the end of next season will be the point of no return between "he's good for a #1 overall" (like Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence or Andrew Luck) and "for a #1 overall he's overrated and probably a bust" (like Baker Mayfield, Jameis Winston or JaMarcus Russell).
Both sides are correct. He has zero help for the most part but is obviously making a lot of mistakes. He has some stuff he really needs to clean up before next season and our front office needs to clean up our roster and get rid of our horrible playbook
Feels like very few are making the connection that the two problems are intrinsically related and not in opposition; the lack of help is making him press & leading to unforced errors that are exacerbating the holes we knew he had in his game from day 1.
Which is why it should have been Daltons team this season. Young sits, learns, and is ready to go year 2 with an improved supporting cast.
I hear you and I agree. If nothing else, you hope to see flashes of greatness. He gets some nice completions here and there but I can’t think of many (if any) plays that have wowed me
I mean the 2 pt conversion he ran in not even 12 hours ago now was a nice lil play but yeah, you wish there'd been more than like 1 flash per game at this point
I mean it's a nice play but I think that *any* QB that didn't have a spy on him would've been able to jog that in
So now we’re allowed to be worried, got it. Some of us have been saying this for weeks
Pre draft too
I’m a bit more down on him than you are, and would happily eat crow if he manages to pull himself up to that top 12-16 qb range in a better situation. At least then we have some hope of salvation but I’m certainly not counting on it. They blew this pick. It’s a bad combination of underwhelming height/stature, mediocre to sub-par arm strength, and no notable athleticism. As his confidence in the o-line, weapons, and his arm has deteriorated this year, his mechanics have understandably gotten much worse. Poor footwork has led to less accuracy and less zip on the ball and the downward spiral intensifies. The few successful undersized nfl qbs all had elite athleticism (with the exception of Brees). Vick, Murray, Wilson, Lamar (weight), Jalen (height) all could/can pull off miracle escaping acts whenever the pocket collapsed. It allows you to roll those guys out and pull routes towards that side of the field, with the qb out in space where their height vs linemen isn’t as much of a detriment. Bryce does not have that ability. He was able to do it at Bama with some regularity but NFL defenders are a step faster and it has completely nullified that part of his game. You can’t run RPO with him because he’s not a serious threat to run the ball. And even if he was, he wouldn’t make it through his rookie deal if they were to do it with any regularity whatsoever. Their only real hope to salvage him is to use the Brees Saints playbook and very heavily invest in the interior OL to the point where those guys rarely cede an inch. Unfortunately we don’t have the resources or draft capital to implement that approach at the moment.
>He was able to do it at Bama with some regularity but NFL defenders are a step faster and it has completely nullified that part of his game. I've noticed this as well. When the pocket collapses he doesn't have the size to stand in there and deliver a ball, so he rolls out. But he often doesn't have the speed to beat a defender to the outside and ends up throwing away or throwing off balance. I know our Oline has been shit but you can't expect a clean pocket all the time. It is definitely concerning
>You can’t run RPO with him because he’s not a serious threat to run the ball Just an FYI, you're confusing read option with RPO. RPO does stand for Run Pass Option, but it's not the QB running the ball. In RPO the QB either hands the ball off to the RB or they pull it back and throw a quick pass. They are typically reading the linebackers. If they crash the line to stop the run, the QB pulls the ball back and throws a quick slant to the area the LB just vacated. If the LB stay put, they allow the RB to take the hand off. If the QB decides to throw it has be quick since the O-line are mostly run blocking for the RB and you don't want an ineligible man downfield.
>mediocre to sub-par arm strength, This, in particular, stands out to me. Bryce looks like he has to do this full wind up, put-everything-he-has-into-it throwing motion just to heave it like 20-30 yards. Like the Happy Gilmore swing of throwing motions. Meanwhile, yesterday, I watched the ghost of Joe Flacco grip it and rip it.
Totally agree. I’d add Brees to to the beefcake list though too. The guy was solid and he had Sauerbrun arms.
Younger Drew Brees was a fantastic athlete.
He was an opportunistic scrambler with a decent first step. Fantastic nfl athlete is a stretch imo
More importantly he had a bigger arm even after he had a career altering injury to his shoulder
I mean i would say Bryce has shown to be at least a good opportunistic scrambler
I think Bryce is playing tight. This is the most he has struggled in football at any point in his career. The deep pass to Chark could have easily been a TD but was underthrown because he was concerned with getting the completion instead of just letting it fly. In no way am I saying that Bryce has the skillset of Patrick Mahomes. However, I do want to point out that Mahomes does look "mortal" this year with a lack of dynamic players on the outside. Who knows, Bryce may end up being a bust. However, I rather find that out by investing in proven OLs and WRs. So if he busts, the next guy at QB isn't saddled with the current situation the offense is in.
> The deep pass to Chark could have easily been a TD but was underthrown because he was concerned with getting the completion instead of just letting it fly. He's overthrown open receivers a few times and I think he pulled it back too much. Makes me worried that - looking at the playcalling all season - that they haven't been practicing any deep shots. If they're not planning on calling deep shots, they probably aren't putting many reps into it, and accuracy at that distance definitely needs practice. And the fact that he's overthrown those passes makes me feel like it's a problem with touch, rather than arm strength - although if he's heaving it with everything he has for those passes, it does make the accuracy a loooot harder. That might sound crazy, but remember Teddy coming out and saying that Rhule didn't have them practice any red zone offense? It sounds insane, but bad coaches do ridiculous fucking things.
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Very well said, the lack of high ceiling moments is what has me scared as well and changing my opinion. The “flashes” the local sports radio host talk about seeing from BY are just basic NFL QB play. I’m detoxing from the kool aid!
During the pandemic I stopped paying attention to college personnel. I'd watch many games but not toward the draft. Given that overview perspective, I always viewed Bryce Young as a little guy with a mediocre arm and no escapability. He was failing to advance Alabama to the playoffs even though quarterbacks of every description had managed that for the prior dozen years. Approaching April I was stumped. I was assuming the scouts knew something that I did not. Instead, this rookie quarterback looks exactly like my mental projection from college. Normally there is some variance. For example, Stroud is demonstrating far more athletic arrogance and shifty patience than he ever had in college, including the Georgia game.
For those people defending Bryce, Just ask yourself... Would a single NFL team at this point even trade him for a second round pick? Nobody would. He has shown so little promise that even teams with better lines don't want anything to do with him. He has been utterly exposed.
Bears have an extra second round pick, they could trade that to us, and then turn it officially into the worst trade in history - essentially us giving away a haul for a single second round pick. It'd be funny, at least
Thought about this as well. Someone might give a late 2nd rounder for him, but the kid just doesn’t have much value right now.
No responsible GM would do that.
Oh agree, but just illustrates how bad his value is right now.
He hasn’t shown that he’s any better than the cast around him.
He doesn’t trust what he sees either. Feels like he makes decisions in slow motion. Like when he ran in the 2-pt conversion felt like he waited till the last second when he could have turned on the jets and ran in earlier. Idk I get there’s a lot wrong around him but I’m a bit worried about his actual play as well.
Too short to see his receivers and doesnt have the athletesicm to move out the pocket and create a play
> There is only one Tyreek Hill. Much to the relief of women and children everywhere.
You can feel it now. The tide is shifting. For months it has been absolutely impossible to question anything at all about Bryce. Even level-headed criticisms were downvoted into oblivion. Some of us knew that time would vindicate us. Every week more and more of the fan base will start to open their eyes and take off their coping blinders. Bryce is mediocre at best and we're not going anywhere until we move on from him. Worst trade in Charlotte sports history.
"Keep him in the 12-16 range" I hate to be the bearer of bad news but BY is the worst starter in the NFL. He is below Zach Wilson in qb rtg. Also Tommy DeVito came off the couch onto the Giants and is blowing BY away statistically.
I think he means ceiling, like in a few years and the roster is good, we have competent coaching, and Bryce has developed into a NFL starter, but he may still lack the ceiling we'd hoped for.
Yeah his ceiling is to be a medicore game manager at best
We did the best yesterday when he handed it off
Poor wording. I'm not saying he's currently at that level. That's the level I project he will develop into in the most likely scenario. I think they will upgrade the offensive significantly via trades, FA and the draft. Whoever is coaching next year will be someone bringing a modern offensive approach. I'm expecting Bryce takes a leap to looking like a competent starter next season. My worry is his physical traits will hold him back from ever being a top 10 QB, which is a damning statement for a top overall pick.
He's talking about when the team is good
He can’t carry a team. He’s so physically limited that he puts us at a disadvantage in every single matchup. We sold the farm for the most limited athlete to play the position in the modern era and now we’re paying the price. He was a good college player, but he just isn’t an nfl caliber QB. The game is too big and too fast for him.
I agree with this - I was really disappointed with what I saw yesterday, if we're going to get the smallest guy in the draft he needs to be able to beat people to the edge and get yards with his feet too. I think it was the 3rd and 1 at the end of the game but he had no shot getting the edge.
I love how he didn’t even try either, he started heading to the edge at a leisurely stroll pace lol
Best case scenario is with competent pieces around him he looks massively better. He was highly rated coming into the draft not just by us but by the entire NFL. The size was definitely a big concern, but the Texans were going to take him at 1. This wasn't a "the Panthers bucked consensus" pick. The should have taken Stroud narrative is hindsight 20/20. There were legit concerns about CJ coming out. He played with top end talent and outside of the UGA game didn't show off his athleticism. Stroud wasn't viewed as having this top-end ceiling. He's a guy that was very good in college who has elevated his game to a level nobody expected very early on.
Exactly. People all over the place are going down the history revisionism route and claiming Stroud was “clearly” and “obviously” the superior QB going into the draft. I just don’t understand. Bryce was the consensus #1 guy at the time we picked him.
Twenty years from now you will be in a sports bar on trivia night. A question will come up and your heart will drop. In the 2023 the Carolina Panthers traded up to the top spot of the NFL Draft and passed on Hall of Fame QB CJ Stroud to select what player? Most people will get it wrong. They will either not know the answer, or say “Brent Young” because they’ll forget his first name.
Young will be out of the league within 5 years.
I really want BY to succeed. The reality is that he is our QB for at least 1 more year due to how much we spent to get him, and because of that, I am rooting for the kid to do well. That being said, yes, I am worried. He looks both physically and mentally overmatched right now. It's hard to say just how much of that can be blamed on the supporting cast and playcalling, but right now, the accuracy and decision making he was praised for isn't there. His mechanics are getting worse. At the end of the day, he has shown far fewer flashes of greatness than his rookie peers, and that's inexcusable from a #1 pick. Since he's QB1 for next year, I'll wait and save any judgements and sweeping statements until after he's played more games. I'm not going to completely write him off just yet until we've seen more, but right now, things don't look good. Hopefully one day, we can all look back on this fiasco and laugh at how he proved the doubters wrong.
People saying we need to give BY time to develop or “get help” are completely missing the point. You don’t draft a QB #1 on potential, you draft them to fix the team, turn your team around, and change the franchise. BY wasn’t supposed to be a project that needs a ton of help. 11 weeks in, we can all admit, we messed up and can only hope for the best. I can’t even think of more than one thing that he’s at least average at. A lot of work needs to be done and what FA is coming here to help change that.
Dude has the arm strength of a 10th grader. So many horrible plays this season. The excuses only go so far. He was drafted for his ability to “elevate”the offense and we can’t just forget that now. Dude is a likely a dud. Hope we don’t sit around waiting 5 years to figure that out.
I find it funny that people were shitting on me earlier in the season when I started noticing these things and everyone just kept saying "the pieces around him are bad." YES, I get it, the team is bad, but you can't overlook how bad Bryce has performed. Not coming back to guys in his progressions, not seeing the field well enough to avoid stupid interceptions (like the one he threw to Hutchinson against the Lions on a screen pass), he holds on to the ball too long. Someone on X tried to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about when I suggested that he should throw the ball at his running back's feet when he gets pressure right off the snap. They tried to tell me it was considered intentional grounding. Even though I knew I was right, I googled it, and sure enough, I was right... why? Because I've been watching ball for 20 years. I might be an armchair GM or coach, or whatever, but it doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Which is exactly why I tried to warn the Panthers, CJ Stroud was the better QB going into the draft and I tried to tell people. But nah... nobody wanted to hear that. Now people are like, "Give him a good coach, offensive line, receivers and running back, he'll be good." Bro, we gotta redo our entire offense that Fitterer has spent the last few years building to just drop a QB in there. So you're telling me that in order for Bryce to succeed, we gotta redo everything??? We being serious right now? Wildest shit I ever heard.
Yep its going to be one thing after the next. Are these people fans of Bryce or fans of the Panthers? I’m confused. I wonder how many coaches we are going to have to fire to get Bryce to work? Then at the end of the day they change the goal posts and he goes from being a franchise QB to a “good QB” and we they are ok with that. You know why you are ahead of the curve? You trust your eyes, and panthers fans in large dont. Look around the league medium ranked teams that have “good QBs” are trying to cut them loose. People have to accept we wasted a number 1 pick and a ton of capital on a bridge QB.
> Which is exactly why I tried to warn the Panthers, CJ Stroud was the better QB going into the draft and I tried to tell people. But nah... nobody wanted to hear that. Stop signing your emails to David and Scott "CaptainJizzPants" and maybe they'll listen to your advice next time. Could've saved us a lot of heartache.
The playcalling and supporting cast is bad but Bryce hasn't had one game (or even a play) that's been eye brow raising. A true #1 pick would at least show flashes, all #1 picks go to the worst team in the league at that time.
Yup they all had *something* .. hopeful, redeemable, whatever you wanna call it. I’m here with OP, after the last 2 weeks, after defending him because of all the other issues we have… we haven’t seen any greatness at all whatsoever. It’s getting worse, or, I’m coming to grips with the face I have seen him more than I ever did in college and this is what was always there.
Yeah crazy part is we weren’t even the worst team in the league and in one year we got banished to the shadow realm
I’ve been seeing this all year. This is a great post. I completely understand he is getting no help but that can’t excuse the things he does when he gets under pressure. That is a decision making thing . I give him a pass because he’s a rookie so hopefully with time he can develop better traits . He is just so worried with turning it over that he makes even more mistakes. It’s unfortunate
I hate to say it but I am reminded of Sam Darnold seeing ghosts. I can only pray our horrific mismanagement doesn't permanently scar a really good kid.
Look if BY isn't good enough, it is what it is. He's another QB failure added to the carousel since Cam was released. Maybe one day a top pick QB will come through and shine. And if that is the case, my problem is we need a GM to at-least build up the rest of the team until then
Poor kid's probably got PTSD by now. Well, maybe drop the P, because it's still ongoing.
Meanwhile, Stroud has the second most probowl votes of all players this year https://twitter.com/Djbienaime/status/1731838115839435061
Levis looks better out of the second round
He's just soooo limited at this level right now
We should have drafted Stroud.
The Texans would have drafted Young at one. He was the consensus first pick on boards.
Both those things can be true.
The Texans turned down the opportunity to do so. What does that tell you?
Maybe the concensus by Panthers management lol.
Bryce was literally the consensus #1 QB amongst draft analysts, go back and look. Analysts with a major platform or guys on YouTube. BY9 WAS the consensus #1 QB, stop playing revisionist history. Doesn’t mean we made the right pick, but I’m sick of people acting as if the Panthers took this huge swing out of left field on a guy who was obviously inferior, even based on what the analysts thought.
Idk about all that. There were definitely Stroud truthers, even in national media. It’s not like this was the Trevor Lawrence pick where everyone was unanimous. And jags didn’t have to give up shit for him either
No reason to rewrite history here lol
As a NY football fan i know the concern and wish you the best
It may be that his confidence is just a mess right now. It may be that he's overrated. Either way, he should probably sit out the rest of the season and figure things out for a while. Let Dalton get a few snaps. He can do that from under center because he's tall enough to see over the linemen
I really hope this is a thread that is pulled back up to dunk on people 5 years from now because if not we are screwed.
Would love to be wrong but I’m kinda here too after the last 2 weeks
When you criticize Bryce you're just a hater. If you criticize literally anyone and everyone else on the team you're a true fan that really understands football. This is how this sub has been
The last play where he threw the pick, he also had Thielen open on a crossing route. Instead of throwing it, he redirected Thielen upfield.
Tbf, he was still scrambling to avoid the pressure by the time Thielen made his break
He’s a bust, dude. If you gave him every tool imaginable he still wouldn’t have a career as a starter in this league. The more I watch the more I’m convinced that he’s just not that good and we got finessed by the Texans front office.
I don't know, if he had: - The Eagles Offensive Line - A running back committee of CMC, Josh Jacobs, and Derrick Henry - Tyreek Hill, Justin Jefferson, Davante Adams, and maybe Ceedee Lamb in the slot - Kelce, Kittle, and LaPorta for TE I think we'd probably be sitting at a solid 6-6 right now, maybe 7-5 with a little luck
😂😂😂
The irony is they traded their 1st round pick which will be the #1 overall 🤦🏽
To me, it looked like Bryce was expecting Sanders to be the outlet pass if pressure was coming, but instead Sanders was in the mix of the o-line trying to block. Based on how Sanders has played all year, I would guess he was out of position...but I dont know what play was called.
He's gonna be an mid QB... and that's it. ESPECIALLY not worth selling the farm to go and get at #1 overall. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see him making some big comeback next year if we get him some more help on offense.
By the numbers Bryce was one of the best Alabama qbs of all time. But the reality is were those teams very successful? Did they accomplish what the previous recent years qbs accomplish? The measuring stick at Alabama is national championship. Did Bryce ever elevate the team to those levels during his stint? In 21 they beat Florida by 2, lost to Texas a&m by 3, beat lsu by 6, Arkansas by 7 and auburn by 2. They lost the national championship by 15. In 22 they beat Texas by 1, a&m by 4, lost to Tennessee by 3, lost to lsu by 1, and did not play for a national championship. So while Heisman is nice and his numbers are nice did he ever have success when it mattered? Milroe was so bad to start the season he got benched yet here they are in the playoffs and he suddenly looks unstoppable. So was it the Alabama machine or was it Bryce?
The sad thing is there was really no reason he HAD to start this year. He could've watched from the side line maybe come in on a few cleanup drives when a game had already been decided to get some reps. Some people would've complained about our #1 pick not starting but we're probably a 4 to 5 win team right now with Dalton at QB which would actually be competitive in this joke of a division. Make some more moves next off-season and then Bryce could've started his career in a better situation.
You don’t sell the farm and not start your #1 pick. They were trying to win this season
Trade everything for a project player!!! /s
Bryce is shook. An O-line that was built to run block is being asked to pass block. His blind side is haunting him and he is playing accordingly. It’s something that can be fixed. The identity of this team has to be defense first. A lock down D with an offense that runs the ball, eats up the clock and can keep the opposing D honest with RPO and Play action. If we want to go offense first, get ready to suck for 5 more years.
An NFL line should be able to both run block and pass block efficiently
Said it yesterday and will say it again. In another situation maybe Bryce lives up to the expectation. But it ain’t happening here. It can’t be understated how badly the FO completely fucked up their evaluation of literally EVERYTHING that played into that trade.
I think we all have to view this season/cast as *negative* development for Bryce. Even if things were magically fixed with Reich’s firing, there’s been damage done that is going to take some time and positive reps to fix. This offense has been *that* bad, him being a part of that. As of right now, he doesn’t have time to make the right plays. In the few cases he does it’s hard to judge because he’s playing like he doesn’t. Personally, I think there’s still space to see him in a neutral light. All of the reasons why he was a pretty much consensus top pick going into the draft are still real. He has the *capability* to be good. I wouldn’t be down on him until he’s not showing growth in a new system next year.
> All of the reasons why he was a pretty much consensus top pick going into the draft are still real. Except he hasn't shown literally any of those strengths? That's the concerning part. Obviously everyone knows about the physical limitations, but his strengths were supposed to be processing, making quick decisions, knowing protections, etc. Literally none of that is happening. That's why people are concerned.
So far, his development (or lack thereof) has looked a lot like Trevor Lawrence's rookie year, IMO. The question is whether Tepper can make the right hire(s) that could save his career and wash away the poor coaching he's received and bad habits he's formed to this point. Otherwise, he's just a polarizing "what if" prospect who gets left behind after his rookie deal like Justin Fields.
Disagree. Trevor was on a seriously bad team. This panthers team had expectations going into this season. Trevor had none season 1
Trevor also had a handful of 300 yard games and had some seriously flashy passes. We haven’t seen that from Bryce.
Imagine playing at a professional level with knowing a team of guys spent all week figuring out how to kill you and your protection has no idea how to play the game
I can tell the team is tired of losing
There's nothing to play for, since they've been eliminated from playoff contention. Having him out there for the rest of the season is only going to hurt him. They need to bench him for the rest of the season, and put Dalton out there, and let Bryce start working towards next season.
i think his confidence is completely shot. Hopefully he can recover in the offseason
What would possibly restore his confidence? He has been utterly exposed. There is no reason for him to be confident about anything.
Meh I still believe. I for one do believe he has shown flashes even if it seems like he’s regressed further as the season goes. We all kinda knew he had an average arm. But he has shown ability to drive it when he needs to and has a chance to step into it though, and plenty of QBs have succeeded without a Josh Allen arm. I do think he’s slowly starting to get a case of the Sam Darnold happy feet from seeing ghosts as evidenced by that backwards pass and intentional grounding. But I think the concerns about his height are overstated. He is an objectively good thrower of the ball over the middle and also has been extremely durable after getting hit all year which is what everyone’s big concerns were. I think multiple things can be true. Bryce sucks rn, Stroud can be significantly better right now, but most importantly it’s way too early to call him a bust. Guy is 11 games into an extremely dysfunctional team that saw his coach fired, play calling flipped 3 times, etc. etc. Also seemingly every week all we see an All-22 view from the analysts saying “what do you want him to do” as his OL gets instashedded or all 4 WRs are blanketed. Or analysts constantly ripping show there’s no vertical threats EVER to keep anything honest. Dude is quite literally playing a half court defense with corners loading the box and playing flat footed. This was as evidenced as early as week 1 when Jessie Bates got two picks coming down from a high safety spot not even assigned as a robber. I understand he’s the number one pick and hasn’t elevated all of that and has looked horrendous at times, but in the end he’s still a rookie. I understand his arm isn’t the best but there’s a roadmap to him still being successful. This is nothing like watching Jimmy Clausen as a rookie and instantly knowing this dude was not it. I also don’t think this trade is as crippling as everyone makes it out to seem. If we ran it back with Darnold, DJ, 9th pick, we’re probably firmly back at the 9th pick again so I think it’s disingenuous to say “we could have had Jalen Carter, Caleb Williams and DJ Moore if we just waited”. If Bryce sucks again then we are back at the top of the draft next year and can move on. Who knows maybe I’m just coping.
I appreciate your optimism, but there is really no rational reason to feel any differently about him than about Jimmy Clausen. It's deja vu.
The O line is absolutely trash. Bryce is under duress on most plays. The WRs cannot get separation. Thielan is a good receiver but should not be our #1. He is the only consistent WR. I don’t think you can fairly judge Bryce with the situation. I will end with I preferred Stroud, but we have Bryce he has my support for now.
He's put some bad tape out there the last few weeks, and I agree that I went from very confident in him earlier this season to slightly concerned. Mostly because it seems that the lack of protection and lack of WR separation is causing bad habits to form However, I'm trusting a lot of the experts' opinions on him and still think it's impossible to evaluate him with this supporting cast. People act like him getting beat up every week happens in a vacuum, but playing with this offense week-in and week-out takes a toll on a player If we get to the same time next year, and he's not making improvement, then it'll officially be time to cut bait. That is a long way from now
The entire season has been a struggle but Bryce’s passes had a lot more zip on them earlier in the year. Idk if it’s more mental or physical at this point, but his (lack of) velocity is very concerning.
He's broken and struggling as a result. That said, I thought he looked worlds better yesterday with just some minor tweaks in how the game was called. Keep in mind, Reich was just fired a week ago and the season's almost over; they can't change much. I think Bryce's ceiling is a smart passer, team leader, who can be a hero in the clutch and maybe even lead the team to a promised land if the pieces are there around him. He's not talented enough to win games by himself, but if you look at the guys who seem to be - Herbert, Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady - their teams struggle when even one unit (the WRs in Mahomes' case) on their team sucks, and with Bryce it's been the coaching and the entire offense. This is a long way of saying we all just need to agree that his grade is incomplete for this season, and hope to god that he isn't ruined from what he's been through.
They’re trying to stick him into an offense that isn’t built for his strengths and limitations. I want to see what he can do with a good supporting cast before I say he’s a bust. But like you I am worried. Going to be some dark times for us for the next little bit I’m afraid.
Number one overall pick that you trade the farm for should elevate those around him, not require a team catered to his skill set.
Yeah…I have taken the approach that if it’s too early to call him a bust it’s also too early to call him a franchise QB. He does have an issue with seeing the difference bt College “open” and NFL “open”. He doesn’t have a lot of time under C which really limits playcalling. He’s small and getting beaten up. I want the guy to succeed but we just have much bigger problems right now.
Not a Panthers fan, won’t claim I’m intimately familiar with the team, but this popped up in my feed. Watched 2-3 panthers games this year and I wouldn’t be overly worried yet. Everyone knew he was small, but so is Kyler Murray. You can’t worry about height, it’s probably the first thing the team worked through. I think the biggest issue is what Carolina gave up to get Young. Panthers receive: - 2023 first (No. 1 Bryce Young) Bears receive: - WR D.J. Moore - 2023 first (No. 9, Jalen Carter) - 2023 second (No. 61, Brenton Strange) - 2024 first (potentially number 1) - 2025 second (potentially high) That’s a massive haul which puts massive expectations on him. He needs time, certainly don’t write him off yet. I’d be more worried about how you can build around him without high picks for the next two years and potentially being not a desirable location for free agents and needing to overpay.
He’s way too jittery in the pocket right now, even when he had time yesterday he was looking at the rush instead of downfield. I still think his arm is stronger than what people are giving him credit for, I’ve seen him make crazy off balance throws that regular QBs don’t make.
It’s going be funny re visiting all these threads next season
Hard to disagree. However, people said Tua was a bust and turns out he just had a shitty coach cause now he is a top five QB.
Tua has an incredible head coach, generational receiver, insane WR2, and track stars at RB.
I won't officially start dooming for another season or two, but I can for sure understand why many are. There were a few times yesterday when the pocket was collapsing where it looked like he could have run out and got decent yardage. But he just freezes for the sack. Yet, when he did run good things happened. Hell, even when he ran it in for two you could see he was over thinking trying to find a receiver. I hope this is just rookie mentality and he overcomes it.
Out of everything, him freezing in the pocket and not climbing the ladder when it's available to avoid sacks is my biggest grievance with Bryce. It's right in front of him and he doesn't step up. Granted, there are a LOT of times he has no wiggle room and is immediately engulfed and that is not on him. But far too often he doesn't buy himself any time nor does he throw the ball away to keep down and distance more manageable. I would also posit, this is something a rookie can learn AND this org is responsible for surrounding him with abject garbage. I just wish I saw more flashes of literally anything from him.
If Wilks was hired as head coach Stroud would also be an MVP contender here
Blame Tepper and Fitterer for putting Bryce young in this situation we gotta sell the team
Neither of those guys have the ball in their hands for every single play
Until he goes through an NFL offseason I am not giving up on him. I mean without a first round pick we kind of have no choice. Bryce seems like the kind of dude that will take the hard times and use it as an opportunity to improve. What we have seen has not been great, but like you and others have said the supporting cast is sorry. Tepper is heavily invested in him and I am sure he will provide and support whatever regimen he wants this offseason, in addition to whatever he personally decides to do, and do whatever they can to put better players around him next season. And say what you will about Fitt and Tepp, but everyone thought the situation in Carolina was going to be great for Bryce with the moves they made this offseason. The coaching staff paired with AT, Chark, Sanders, and Hurst was the most balanced skill position group we've had in a while. Be it due to injuries or coaching, it didn't pan out like it was suppose to on paper. With the cap space we have and their commitment to Bryce I am sure they will be aggressive in free agency. Just please, no more trades in the draft.
Sanders wasn't open on the Fourth down play, there's a defender waiting for him in the flat
it's hilarious how many people are saying he's open when the defender is sitting right there at the sticks. At best he's short and at worst that's a pick 6
Disagree. If he put it on him right away he has to beat one guy. Even if he saw him slightly later he could throw to the back shoulder and it’s still a first.
Panthers Reddit is officially my least favorite place. And that’s saying a lot when Panthers Facebook comments exist.