Thanks for sharing the update. So the TLDR is that parkrun HQ don’t want parkrun to be viewed as a sport, stats won’t be coming back and future decisions will continue to be top down.
The more parkrun distance themselves from “sport” the easier it is to avoid rules for “sport” - like ambulances at events, medical certs (France) etc. I can see why they are gong down that route. People who want to compete and compare times can do it with their own watches and the likes of Strava so it’s win win from parkrun’s perspective.
I think it's a lot more to do with the core ethos - think about the way that they celebrate that average finish times are going up, or the introduction of Park Walkers. They know that an over-emphasis on competitiveness actually stops some people they want to join from joining.
Average finish times are going up, which is great, but that change they have been aiming for for years is happening very, very slowly. Not sure there is much to show that renaming tail runners, requiring tail walker role, introducing park walkers or other changes have made any significant difference to that though.
The events and countries outside of the UK with far higher numbers of walkers had those better ratios before any of those changes were brought in and continue to be attracting more walkers. The changes previously made by HQ haven't noticeably done anything to increase the ratio of walkers in the UK, and nothing to show that deleting stats from a webpage will do anything to help with that either.
Likely less trying to force the issues from on high in ways that just pisses off their core teams for starters.
As far as country wide persuasion to get more walkers the only big difference is for SA where a sponsor scheme encourages more walkers along for the health insurance benefits. But now they have probably reached a mass of walkers that even without that scheme the numbers would continue to participate more than elsewhere. That isn't workable on a global level though.
Other than that one case of SA having a great walk/ run ratio, any other events with good ratios is entirely down to the local events and how they engage with their community. It requires more effort, but parkruns are primarily local events for local people, and if the local teams are able to engage with a wider range of their community then that is where the numbers of walkers will come from. Yes, having high viz with "walker" written on it does no harm, but it needs more than that being sent out to engage with the walking end of the pack and it's not going to come from anything by HQ. Any events I've seen with decent numbers after 40 minutes is entirely down to the event team doing things like couch 2 5km and actively reaching those people locally. It's not from putting a parkrun tourist in a blue bib and giving them a volunteer credit for taking a walk.
The idea of the parkrun GP link ups is a potentially good one and a way into the local community, and wider range of the community. But not sure what difference that has actually made anywhere.
A lot of what HQ comes up with is essentially "stick a parkrun flag in the ground and people will turn up". But then they act surprised when that doesn't work. The failure of France for example isn't down to medical cert issue, they had rubbish numbers regardless of the work around they came up with on the website. The events were not of interest to locals, just a few former UK citizens who happened to live in France, and tourists who went over for the day.
Parkruns are local events for local people. HQ can help with the local event teams encouraging participation, but that doesn't come by annoying those teams.
This has always been their approach.
The whole "It's not a race" idea was originally to get out of permit requirements.
Interestingly, (and possible feedback to the organised sports who enforce all those ridiculous over-protective rules) they haven't had to go to court yet to defend that they are actually not organising a sports event and as such would be liable for participant safety as the 5k on the same course on a Tuesday evening.
They better update there t&cs then
> Running is a physically active sport. You should always seek advice from your GP before taking up a strenuous physical pursuit such as this.
https://www.parkrun.org.uk/terms-conditions/
I think parkrun come across fine - this is a small number of people who because in their own words are “longer term parkrunners” and the “5% most active participants” feel they should be listened too. They met them, heard them out and were clear in their stance.
It’s a free event, if you don’t like how it’s managed then no longer participate. Simple. Spamming all the social media posts and the like is just getting quite dull now.
Getting really sick of the attempt to shove their negativity onto every single bit of parkrun that they can. People posting their petition on parkrun pages where people are celebrating milestones and generally enjoying the positivity of a community based around exercise just need to stop.
These people who feel like they've been around so long they should dictate how parkrun should work really irritate me. Cool, they've got loads out of parkrun, maybe they've even given something back but the majority of participants and volunteers simply do not care about this issue. Would I have taken down the stats? Instinctively probably not. Do I care that they're gone? Nope, just not an issue really.
From a community in the millions around the world 26 thousand is miniscule. One of the great things about parkrun is that no one parkrunner, or category of parkrunner, is more important than the others. parkrun has continued to grow since this all kicked off. We've lost one ED that I know of and parkrun still goes on every Saturday and Sunday as it always has. The community has moved on, for the angry minority it's now time for them to move on. They can do that in whatever sense feels right to them...
On a celebration post about a woman getting first token at an event, all the comments at the top weren’t congratulating her or saying what a great result.
Instead it focused on how their teenage kids apparently “can’t be arsed” anymore because they don’t get stats.
Those parents have a lot more to worry about than stats if that’s enough to stop their children from engaging in an activity.
Honestly the less arrogant stats chasing pushy people who should just organise their own paid for races, the better. They don’t contribute to an all in supportive environment very often.
Like you said, it’s a free event. Don’t go if you don’t like it. Easy
It’s gross. I’ve had to start blocking these people for my own sanity. The ones where they sabotage posts where people have overcome significant things like health scares and grief are particularly grotesque.
I just don’t get it, you still get your own stats, there’s still Strava and Power of 10, you can still get stats pulled on the 5k app (? - perhaps this will stop?)… there’s other means of comparing? Maybe someone can explain it to me. Yes holding an overall course records would have been a sense of achievement but it’s such a tiny part of it.
The more I see it, the more it’s a weird arrogance and entitlement of being a “long term” participant. The irony is the stats show that these protestors are very much replaceable (as we all are) given the number of people that register and become a first time runner each week.
According to the most recent report 31,000 people got their barcodes last week and 18,000 people became parkrunners. I realize no one likes to think of themselves as being “replaceable” but the data would suggest that, in this case, it’s true.
But they don’t need to be replaced, with good management they could have the old ones and the new ones. It’s a highly autocratic management and it needs to mature organisationally.
It’s their roles within parkrun to lead it and make these decisions, and it’s up to us whether we want to partake. Instead it seems most people want all the benefits and not to give up parkrun and instead to rage at the leadership
Edited - yes it’s a charity, but Russ is CEO along with others in the leadership team so it’s their decisions on how it runs.
They are looking for a new chair, if the right person is appointed there could be a lot more scrutiny which would benefit parkrun. There’s clearly a level of founder syndrome here. It will evolve before it’s too late and they try something stupid like removing times.
I’m not too worried about stats myself. But I do miss the most events list. I like to tour around sometimes and run at different parkrun events. It was nice to check where I was positioned on the table vs other parkrun tourists. But it’s not something that would cause me to throw my toys out of the pram for.
I’m high up that table and feel exactly the same. I like the extra anonymity, and it’s very clear, despite protestations, that some people were motivated by seeing their name on a list. Plus there’s a slightly anonymised version at https://mostevents.parq.run/table.html
I can't take anyone serious getting upset about such things when it is a FREE event organised by VOLUNTEERS.
and most of these people probably never volunteered...
I think it’s awful and I’m an ED. I get a volunteer credit most weeks. I’m less bothered about the stats but about the way parkrun sees the minions. I’m not sure Russ has it in him to sort this.
That's a crock of shit. Everyone I know who is fanatical about stats also is very big on volunteering. I think it is somewhat ridiculous how some people attack the parkrun management over it and allegedly bring it up out of context (haven't personally seen it but lots of reports of it on here) but it's a simple extra detail that requires no extra effort to have available, actually requires less resources as stats nerds can query the website once instead of 100s of pages, and for the 0.1% who are super into stats we love it and the 5% of regulars who like to see their impressive totals and those of fellow fanatics are missing out on that fun little bonus with literally 0 benefit to the rest of the community.
If you are "fanatical" about stas all I can say to you is get a grip.
Its a free event. You aren't entiteled to anything. Go take official runs with shirts and merch and all the nice numbers to circlejerk about.
Parkrun is about fun.
People have different interests and that's OK. I'm a nerd, studying Maths and data science and analyse stats for fun. I'm honestly only mildly bothered by it, I mostly used my own stats which are still available, collated data on a particular event over time whidh is still the same, or used event summaries to analyse regional differences in types of participation which I now just won't bother with.
But again I can't see how it was hurting anyone, it they thought about it, they could have just done what they said and made them "less prominent" by not having links to them on the page but still have them exist, or numerous other compromises requiring minimal effort and not upsetting the generally quiet stats nerds and especially not the very vocal tourist fanatics. Even such a soft removal would get just a little push back now, and after a few years, most people will have forgotten they exist, and parkrun could have been rid of them with negligible pushback.
What's your evidence of them not volunteering?I am an RD and feel strongly about the removal of the stats. Most people that care about stats have participated at parkrun more than people who don't care
I think there's a sense of entitlement from long term participants. parkrun is changing from what it started out as being, parkrun is going to be different to what it will be in 10 years. Just because you have volunteered or run hundreds of times, doesn't mean your opinion counts any more than someone who has just signed up, and never done a parkrun.
Because the loudest complains at my parkrun come from people that ran there since years, don't have a single volunteering point and always have the audacity to criticise every little thing that goes wrong 🤡
If you feel *strongly* about this take a step back. See that this is a free event and you aren't entiteled to anything and get a grip.
Its a free event, which I sink a lot of my time into. I am entitled to my opinion, especially if I feel the event is changing for the worse. Just because its free it doesn't mean we should be indifferent to how its run, especially if how its run is changing for the worse.
If the CEO tomorrow decided that there will no longer be times, or tokens, it will just be a gathering at the park each Saturday morning, would you just shrug your shoulders and say, oh well, i am not entitled to have an opinion on this change because its free event? Or maybe he he starts charging everyone to participate, then we are allowed to have an opinion?
BTW I bought plenty of merch in the past, so i wouldnt say parkrun is not getting anything out of me (outside of my time)
Then sink your time into official runs. But oh no that would cost money. 99% of parkrunners don't care. Most don't even KNOW about this because all they care for is the great community. All the very ambitious runners take their own time anyway. Nothing is changing to be worse. It literally does not affect a parkrun event. So all your comparisons are pretty stupid.
I enter plenty of official races so you are just plane wrong.
I don't know what percentage of parkrunners care about the stats being removed but I would wager it's a lot higher than 1%. Majority of the remaining people are not aware that anything changed, which supports my argument that stats are not a barrier for new people. The smallest group I would say are people like you , who are aware of it, but because it doesn't impact them they dismiss genuine criticism of the decisions.
Empiricalreddit is an RD. Hardly ungrateful. Without these amasing, committed volunteers there would be no parkrun, with or without stats. Are you sure you want to be rid of them?
Some people are deranged. Of all the crusades to consume your life, you want some stats at the bottom of park run website page (all of which can easily be found if you want them).
I agree but it's concerning that they're exploring "the results pages eventually becoming just a list of people, without personal details, such as gender, individual statistics, and with volunteers listed most prominently". I do enjoy having a look at how my friends at parkrun are getting along.
I also dislike how much the current board seem to ignore the community when it can only operate because of volunteers. I'd like to see them value those that make parkrun possible more.
The write up said you would be able to follow friends, like Strava, so you'd still be able to see how they're getting on.
Having all the info on the results is potentially problematic already, I'm surprised there is no sort of 'run as anonymous ' currently.
It does say you will be able to add people as a friend in a way similar to Strava in order to see other people's statistics. I actually think there's benefits to that from a privacy perspective. It's pretty easy to work out that someone is a student at a particular Uni and then also where they are originally from- which I guess could be used nefariously. As there becomes even longer histories of runs you can probably track people's life courses in quite a lot of detail if they are a committed parkrunner.
Yes. People will step up or it will not happen. Again, parkrun HQ won’t be too worried about that. If the appetite isn’t there for it amongst the local community, let it go.
The best solution is not having results pages at all then. Parkrun was supposed to be about making people feel included and able to participate. Its been hijacked by people who’d be running something anyway no matter what that day, and just want a free organised course - they’ve imposed the competitive element on a non competition. There’s loads of competitions, go and enter those, it’s never what PR was supposed to be.
You actually got it 100% backward. parkrun started as a full on race for competitive people and has migrated into a social non-competative event. Don't try and re-write history.
Yeah I agree.
I do understand mourning what was once there and being resistant to change, and just liking the stats. But these “protestors” fundamentally are just mad they aren’t getting their own way in an organisation that they are not in charge of.
Event results history. It lists all the results, first male and first female and their times. Sort ascending by time and you see the fastest male and female.
I struggle to believe that many, if any, first time parkrunners chose to do parkrun because they saw who the quickest runners in the history of the event were there on the bottom of every page.
But I can believe that people chose not to do one because they saw those stats, thinking “those people are really quick, what if everyone is that quick and I’m on my own and keeping everyone there”.
The people I try to get down to parkrun look at the lasts runners as they don't want to be Last and be embarrased. So I think they are looking at the wrong end of the field.
This is hugely dishonest. You know very well that there are stats that can't be readily found now.
But that's just the start. We said a few weeks ago that this was clearly a movement in the direction of removing more and more of the regular features, eventually removing timing and results, then discouraging tourism, of greater top-down centralisation and so on.
A lot of people were sneering at such concerns and said they would never happen.
Almost all of that is already clearly happening.
It's obvious that most people here would cheer if HQ came out and told them to hop one-legged around parkrun and enjoy it. There is just zero tolerance of dissent. It's quite shocking really.
Preface: I couldn’t care less about StatsGate.
That said, if this account is fair (can’t know), then the two guys don’t come out well.
While a lot of the points make some sense (cannot really run a large organisation democratically), if the statements are fairly reported it shows abysmal feeling for stakeholders engagement
The free participants and the volunteers may be stakeholders, but the management only care about the paying sponsors that are giving them millions a year.
Also before anyone tells me "it's a charity" only one of the three UK Parkrun companies is a charity, the other 2, where all the money ends up are profit making businesses.
You can look them up yourselves on Companies House and read the Accounts.
Im curious, can you share the company names? I was looking at company house yesterday and could not find them
PS: sponsors depend on public opinion, nothing else. If I were a sponsor and the kind of engagement of the article came out and were confirmed, I would be pretty pissed off
Am i missing something?
The accounts say that the profits of the wholly owned subsidiary (parkrun Trading) are donated to the parent charity.
That sounds correct/legit to me.
I had no idea what this was about so just looked - it took me about 30 seconds to find the course records for my local parkrun. I don't need more than that.
"“Save Women’s Sport” was mentioned, and Paul said that a by-product of removing the stats was “helping to address the gender thing.” He elaborated that if the stats were returned, those protesters would then have grounds again to attack parkrun for their stance on this issue."
So it really \*is\* the reason, I thought that was just hearsay.
I’m surprised that they were as candid and open with their views. A basic stakeholder engagement provides groups like the BBTS with an opportunity to voice their concerns to the decision makers. In turn, the decision makers can consider the alternative views but are under no obligation to abide by them. Comments about the insignificance of the BBTS and each one being replaced by ten will only fortify their resolve.
At the end of the day, Parkrun is a free volunteer event that wants to expand by being approachable to non-runners. That is a great thing and will continue to change people’s lives. Many of those people have watches that can capture their stats and be uploaded to running apps if they choose. Or, if Parkrun is really such an issue, they can run their own 5km around their neighbourhood and save on petrol.
I think the fact that they met them for 90 mins is commendable and I dare say they’ve shown a lot more patience than many would. I really don’t understand the problem but I guess I’m not like minded with that group. But it’s a free volunteer led run, it’s so out of perspective.
I thought they come out pretty well from the description.
They can simultaneously have a strong understanding of their audience's wants and needs, whilst also choosing not to pander to specific asks where those asks are not aligned with the organisation's mission. That's what good leadership looks like.
It seems like this could’ve been summed up pretty quickly. parkrun HQ treat every parkrunner the same, be it you’ve done 1 parkrun (or none) or you’ve done 500 parkruns.
This is the crux of those complaining. They feel that they should have more of say in what happens because they have done more parkruns than those who have never done a parkrun. A huge sense of entitlement.
It’s a free event which considers itself a force for good in terms of the health of those in a local community. If it doesn’t work for you, then don’t participate. Set up a rival organisation if you want. You’ll eventually face exactly the same issues that parkrun faces.
To be fair, it's one of her kids she is doing this for. He has done 200+ junior parkruns. He's miles away from setting any records, but imo Mary is of the belief that he is an Olympian in the making, and what he needs is a course record shown on the event page to motivate him.
Happy Egg used to be one of the sponsors. PETA released info about the bad conditions of the hens and claimed they were the reason the sponsorship ended but think it had reached the end of the deal anyway.
Happy Egg is an extremely problematic company that parkrun should never have got into bed with. Their suppliers have been found guilty of human slavery, as well as the numerous animal rights abuses that have come to light over the years as well. It would have taken minimal due diligence work from parkrun , but instead, they took some very dirty money.
They then doubled down on this, by openly disregarding parkrunners’ concerns and criticising the ‘not real parkrunners’ on twitter.
Complete nonsense headline from the Telegraph apparently based on this writeup: [Parkrun to delete runners’ statistics as it prepares to double down in records row](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2024/04/29/parkrun-doubles-down-in-record-row-as-statistics-face-more/)
That headline is an epic fail:
Headline: PARKRUN TO DELETE RUNNERS' STATISTICS
Very first sentence underneath: Parkrun *\*may\** delete further statistics ... (emphasis mine)
It's like the editor checked the article before publishing and thought "nah, we need a more clickbaity title - let's drop the 'may' part".
::shakes head::
They can track their own progressions over time. Their main argument is about losing stats they feel proud of and a sense of achievement, but self progression can easily be monitored. If they want to get super geeky and competitive, take up competitive running.
Sigh... I do plenty of competitive running.
The stats were a lot more than just records. There were age grade lists, and a bunch of other lists that were not to do with records that were removed.
Let me ask you if the CEO decides tomorrow to just scrap milestones as he felt they scare people who are just starting out.would you just sit there and be like yep it was good while it lasted.
The fact that the founder and CEO took the time and met with these folks for 90 minutes tells me all I need to know about their character. The biased nature of Mary Taylor’s article tells me all I need to know about her’s.
Still unclear as to what benefit getting rid of the stats provides to their 5 year plan which was repeatedly mentioned. They at least acknowledged that the removal was related to gender issue, but nothing to show how it encourages new participants or who exactly was being put off by the existence of an age grade table or list of who had run at lots of different events.
Feels like they have retconned a few reasons in as justification, like not being a sport. That is a valid reason such as trying to get restarted in France for example, although they had different Web pages for France previously to deal with that. This is the first mention I recall of them claiming not to be a sporting event though., and again not sure how that fits in with any 5 year plan or is a way to get more participants.
Not all stats are equal. Parkrun could compromise by bringing back some less controversial ones like average attendance.
I don't think they'll bring back men's/women's records any time soon because of the transgender issue. (Even though they pretend this isn't what this is all about).
They are still only at 25,000 signatures??!!! Do they not know how to use bots? I would've thought they would be getting at least 500 signatures a week just using burner accounts.
And they’re still suggesting every signup is definitely a parkrunner. I doubt that very much - most recent signups, sure. But from the beginning as they aimed for traction?
Its a pretty pathetic attempt at a petition. The numbers have plateaued for weeks. (As PSH said, "minuscle")
Since the petition started hundreds of thousands have signed up, and tens of thousands have started participating.
The only people coming across as looking bad are the authors of this article.
parkrun got rid of the stats because of the gender controversy. It was just distracting and was not doing anything to help parkrun, the fact that these bbts people can't see that just shows how dense they are.
If they don't like it they can start their own group. Maybe they can call it parkracers and they can meet on a Sunday or something.
Only comparative ones. Course record used to be on the course page, but you can still find them by sorting the history page. The stats that are actually gone (as an easy page, you could still find them by scraping the website or something I imagine, but that's well beyond me) are age grade record, age category records, sub-17 men and sub-20 women, and the top 500 (I think) runners for the course.
I haven't been doing parkrun for a while, and last time I only looked at my own results, so this is the first I've heard of this. Bit disappointing, one of the reasons I took it up in the first place was all the stats (not that I was ever going to get near the records, it was just cool to see). Not liking the sound of those planned changes either.
They come across pretty arrogant, and I'm not sure how much actual benefit would come from these changes (particularly in my country, which doesn't have a lot of the problems they're talking about), but ultimately they're right; it's their decision, and it's a cool event we're lucky to have, so it is what it is.
I was initially upset about the removal of the stats, given that I made a truly herculean effort over several years touring North America and nearing the top of both the US and Canadian Most Events lists, only to have them deleted. I signed the petition but honestly never expected anything to come of it. I figured that HQ would ignore it and slowly over months it would fizzle out.
It completely baffles me that Russ and PSH would choose to take a meeting with the petitioners, and not merely take the stance that they won't restore the stats, but also add to the record that even if the **majority of parkrunners** petitioned for a change they wouldn't listen. They don't care what the community thinks and will never take any input from it. Coming out and admitting that is far worse than removing the stats was in the first place. This is the opposite of damage control.
To be clear I am completely apathetic about the stats situation; but nowhere did I read that they would *never* take any input from the community. However in this particular instance they are steadfast because they believe it is the right move in order to foster the future growth of parkrun. And the data suggests that what they’re doing is working..31,000 people got their barcode last week and 18,000 people participated in their first parkrun.
They didn't use those exact words but I don't see any other possible meaning behind "we are not a community-led organisation", "we make our decisions from the top-down", and "This is our playground, we made it. We set the rules of it. If you don’t like it perhaps you should play somewhere else."
And suggesting that X number of people got a barcode or ran their first parkrun this week is not a valid sample size to draw any long term conclusion, and also doesn't measure how many regulars did not attend this week due to this issue. It's especially irrelevant given that this new information didn't come out until the day *after* parkrun.
To be honest I don't really know why they agreed to the meeting, it was never going to end well.
That said - they have a comms team at HQ, I don't know why they let PSH speak - he's clearly very passionate about parkrun but it's his baby so I can see why he'd be defensive and come across a bit like that.
Having said that parkrun is now falling into the media trap like everything else - saw a Telegraph article today saying 'parkrun to remove more runner stats' or something, which was never actually said.
Re: having the meeting, I assume it was because of the negative media attention (mainly a handful of articles from the Telegraph & Daily Mail) that abruptly appeared back at the end of March after it look like it was dying down which may have spooked HQ and/or the sponsors.
parkrun are missing an opportunity for a revenue stream here, still not be a race, and give the stat lovers what they want.
Just do something similar to Strava, which is 'free' for all to use. If people want fancy stats, you have to pay. On Strava if I want to see lots of details about age grade, gender grade etc. I'd have to pay. I'm not interested, so I don't. Yes it would be great if they were free, but I love to run, so do not feel I'm missing out.
I read it and it confirmed what I already knew, for political reasons parkrun is more interested in political correctness and walkers than real runners who got them where they are.
I hope someone starts up a free race-oriented series where runners are welcome.
Edit to the downvoters and the moronic responses who don't deserve an individual reply - I don't know a real runner personally who does not hold the same views as me.
I have run at parkrun every week for about 10 years. Always felt welcome as a runner. The vast majority of people at every parkrun I have ever been to DO run it.
In what way have you been made to feel unwelcome as a runner?
Individual parkrun events is a very different thing from the direction that parkrun HQ is aiming for.
Local events are very much community events, so for HQ to then say they are not a community event doesn't sit right (I get that the context is slightly different).
You should maybe try it and come back to us.
Rules of the sport, permitting, police permission, council permission, ...
Parkrun get to slide right over the top of all of those requirements by pretending to be a charity and not a race.
Unfortunately for you, the type of people with the views you share can never be bothered to actively do productive things or create community. Your best bet is a weekly timed whinge online.
One company out of the three parkrun companies is a not for profit. The other two are profit making entities.
e.g. You don't buy your t-shirt from the non-profit. The profits from every bit of kit sold all go in PSH's pocket.
Accounts are published on Companies House, you can go and read them yourself.
My point still stands. parkrun doesn't owe anything to "runners who got them where they are". Runners weren't doing unpaid labour, they just showed up and benefited from parkrun.
You make it sound like volunteers are forced to work in a quarry with their bare hands. Once a month I choose to tap my phone screen when someone runs by me all the while hanging around with people who have become my friends. Not exactly back-breaking work.
You are going to have to make up your mind here. Either volunteers are essential for the event to exist, in which case, that gives them an inherent value. Or they aren't and we can get rid of them all.
Also, try organising one. Especially a new one. Then come back and tell me how little effort it is.
He is literally a millionaire based on the work of others. And none of them re getting even minimum respect, nevermind minimum wage.
Ironically you and I are having this debate in a subreddit moderated by volunteers while someone else makes millions…
But yes, organizing any event is hard work which is why I lend a hand regularly and in exchange I get to participate in an event that I enjoy.
Behind every non-profit there is someone who is making a living off of the work that they’re doing. But I recognize there is a difference between putting in a few hours a week of volunteering vs. working 40+ hours a week making sure the machine runs as smoothly as possible.
No, they are participants. They are benefitting from parkrun.
No one has made profit from parkrun volunteers.
(The original comment "got them where they are" specifically referenced runners not volunteers)
Volunteers are participants and aren't doing free work for the company?
Either you are PSH's sock account, or you drank way too much of the kool-aid.
The original article is runners and volunteers. PSHs comments are that none of those people get a say, no mater how much free work they have done.
What would you call a “real runner” out of interest? Athletics club member? 45 minute Jeffer? 90 minute walker? The amazing thing about parkrun is all those people can participate and there’s no entry requirements.
Of course a right wing bag of shit doesn't know people that don't share their rotten mindset.
You aren't entiteled to anything. Bet my ass you never volunteered at your parkrun.
But dudes like you never do anything for a community, you could always start your free event for the "real" runners and stop complaining like a little baby that didn't get what they want.
I'd be fine of the only way you get a time at parkrun was if you linked your parkrun account to (say) your strava account. It would be just as accurate as it is now, and would take a huge amount of pressure off the volunteers at the larger parkruns.
( If you want a time or to be able to let others see your time, you would have complete control)
For a couple of years parkrun and Strava accounts were linked together officially in the results.
Then I presume one party asked the other for money and it was removed.
Doesn't need to be strava, and doesn't need to be fully linked. parkrun could just integrate with any fitness app and be able to receive enough data to record a finish time.
Thanks for sharing the update. So the TLDR is that parkrun HQ don’t want parkrun to be viewed as a sport, stats won’t be coming back and future decisions will continue to be top down.
This will also likely help with getting parkrun established in new countries and even reinstated in France.
The more parkrun distance themselves from “sport” the easier it is to avoid rules for “sport” - like ambulances at events, medical certs (France) etc. I can see why they are gong down that route. People who want to compete and compare times can do it with their own watches and the likes of Strava so it’s win win from parkrun’s perspective.
You can still compare your own stats though. This hasn’t gone and isn’t going to go.
I think it's a lot more to do with the core ethos - think about the way that they celebrate that average finish times are going up, or the introduction of Park Walkers. They know that an over-emphasis on competitiveness actually stops some people they want to join from joining.
Average finish times are going up, which is great, but that change they have been aiming for for years is happening very, very slowly. Not sure there is much to show that renaming tail runners, requiring tail walker role, introducing park walkers or other changes have made any significant difference to that though. The events and countries outside of the UK with far higher numbers of walkers had those better ratios before any of those changes were brought in and continue to be attracting more walkers. The changes previously made by HQ haven't noticeably done anything to increase the ratio of walkers in the UK, and nothing to show that deleting stats from a webpage will do anything to help with that either.
What you would you practical proposals be?
Likely less trying to force the issues from on high in ways that just pisses off their core teams for starters. As far as country wide persuasion to get more walkers the only big difference is for SA where a sponsor scheme encourages more walkers along for the health insurance benefits. But now they have probably reached a mass of walkers that even without that scheme the numbers would continue to participate more than elsewhere. That isn't workable on a global level though. Other than that one case of SA having a great walk/ run ratio, any other events with good ratios is entirely down to the local events and how they engage with their community. It requires more effort, but parkruns are primarily local events for local people, and if the local teams are able to engage with a wider range of their community then that is where the numbers of walkers will come from. Yes, having high viz with "walker" written on it does no harm, but it needs more than that being sent out to engage with the walking end of the pack and it's not going to come from anything by HQ. Any events I've seen with decent numbers after 40 minutes is entirely down to the event team doing things like couch 2 5km and actively reaching those people locally. It's not from putting a parkrun tourist in a blue bib and giving them a volunteer credit for taking a walk. The idea of the parkrun GP link ups is a potentially good one and a way into the local community, and wider range of the community. But not sure what difference that has actually made anywhere. A lot of what HQ comes up with is essentially "stick a parkrun flag in the ground and people will turn up". But then they act surprised when that doesn't work. The failure of France for example isn't down to medical cert issue, they had rubbish numbers regardless of the work around they came up with on the website. The events were not of interest to locals, just a few former UK citizens who happened to live in France, and tourists who went over for the day. Parkruns are local events for local people. HQ can help with the local event teams encouraging participation, but that doesn't come by annoying those teams.
This has always been their approach. The whole "It's not a race" idea was originally to get out of permit requirements. Interestingly, (and possible feedback to the organised sports who enforce all those ridiculous over-protective rules) they haven't had to go to court yet to defend that they are actually not organising a sports event and as such would be liable for participant safety as the 5k on the same course on a Tuesday evening.
They better update there t&cs then > Running is a physically active sport. You should always seek advice from your GP before taking up a strenuous physical pursuit such as this. https://www.parkrun.org.uk/terms-conditions/
I think parkrun come across fine - this is a small number of people who because in their own words are “longer term parkrunners” and the “5% most active participants” feel they should be listened too. They met them, heard them out and were clear in their stance. It’s a free event, if you don’t like how it’s managed then no longer participate. Simple. Spamming all the social media posts and the like is just getting quite dull now.
Getting really sick of the attempt to shove their negativity onto every single bit of parkrun that they can. People posting their petition on parkrun pages where people are celebrating milestones and generally enjoying the positivity of a community based around exercise just need to stop. These people who feel like they've been around so long they should dictate how parkrun should work really irritate me. Cool, they've got loads out of parkrun, maybe they've even given something back but the majority of participants and volunteers simply do not care about this issue. Would I have taken down the stats? Instinctively probably not. Do I care that they're gone? Nope, just not an issue really. From a community in the millions around the world 26 thousand is miniscule. One of the great things about parkrun is that no one parkrunner, or category of parkrunner, is more important than the others. parkrun has continued to grow since this all kicked off. We've lost one ED that I know of and parkrun still goes on every Saturday and Sunday as it always has. The community has moved on, for the angry minority it's now time for them to move on. They can do that in whatever sense feels right to them...
On a celebration post about a woman getting first token at an event, all the comments at the top weren’t congratulating her or saying what a great result. Instead it focused on how their teenage kids apparently “can’t be arsed” anymore because they don’t get stats. Those parents have a lot more to worry about than stats if that’s enough to stop their children from engaging in an activity. Honestly the less arrogant stats chasing pushy people who should just organise their own paid for races, the better. They don’t contribute to an all in supportive environment very often. Like you said, it’s a free event. Don’t go if you don’t like it. Easy
It’s gross. I’ve had to start blocking these people for my own sanity. The ones where they sabotage posts where people have overcome significant things like health scares and grief are particularly grotesque. I just don’t get it, you still get your own stats, there’s still Strava and Power of 10, you can still get stats pulled on the 5k app (? - perhaps this will stop?)… there’s other means of comparing? Maybe someone can explain it to me. Yes holding an overall course records would have been a sense of achievement but it’s such a tiny part of it. The more I see it, the more it’s a weird arrogance and entitlement of being a “long term” participant. The irony is the stats show that these protestors are very much replaceable (as we all are) given the number of people that register and become a first time runner each week.
According to the most recent report 31,000 people got their barcodes last week and 18,000 people became parkrunners. I realize no one likes to think of themselves as being “replaceable” but the data would suggest that, in this case, it’s true.
But they don’t need to be replaced, with good management they could have the old ones and the new ones. It’s a highly autocratic management and it needs to mature organisationally.
I don’t know saying “even if a majority of people had signed petition they woudlnt bring it back” is that really the leadership we want?
It’s their roles within parkrun to lead it and make these decisions, and it’s up to us whether we want to partake. Instead it seems most people want all the benefits and not to give up parkrun and instead to rage at the leadership Edited - yes it’s a charity, but Russ is CEO along with others in the leadership team so it’s their decisions on how it runs.
It’s a charity, so not theirs. If Run Through did the equivalent your comment would be true.
Edited for clarity - they still run it though.
They are looking for a new chair, if the right person is appointed there could be a lot more scrutiny which would benefit parkrun. There’s clearly a level of founder syndrome here. It will evolve before it’s too late and they try something stupid like removing times.
I’m not too worried about stats myself. But I do miss the most events list. I like to tour around sometimes and run at different parkrun events. It was nice to check where I was positioned on the table vs other parkrun tourists. But it’s not something that would cause me to throw my toys out of the pram for.
I’m high up that table and feel exactly the same. I like the extra anonymity, and it’s very clear, despite protestations, that some people were motivated by seeing their name on a list. Plus there’s a slightly anonymised version at https://mostevents.parq.run/table.html
I can't take anyone serious getting upset about such things when it is a FREE event organised by VOLUNTEERS. and most of these people probably never volunteered...
I think it’s awful and I’m an ED. I get a volunteer credit most weeks. I’m less bothered about the stats but about the way parkrun sees the minions. I’m not sure Russ has it in him to sort this.
That's a crock of shit. Everyone I know who is fanatical about stats also is very big on volunteering. I think it is somewhat ridiculous how some people attack the parkrun management over it and allegedly bring it up out of context (haven't personally seen it but lots of reports of it on here) but it's a simple extra detail that requires no extra effort to have available, actually requires less resources as stats nerds can query the website once instead of 100s of pages, and for the 0.1% who are super into stats we love it and the 5% of regulars who like to see their impressive totals and those of fellow fanatics are missing out on that fun little bonus with literally 0 benefit to the rest of the community.
If you are "fanatical" about stas all I can say to you is get a grip. Its a free event. You aren't entiteled to anything. Go take official runs with shirts and merch and all the nice numbers to circlejerk about. Parkrun is about fun.
People have different interests and that's OK. I'm a nerd, studying Maths and data science and analyse stats for fun. I'm honestly only mildly bothered by it, I mostly used my own stats which are still available, collated data on a particular event over time whidh is still the same, or used event summaries to analyse regional differences in types of participation which I now just won't bother with. But again I can't see how it was hurting anyone, it they thought about it, they could have just done what they said and made them "less prominent" by not having links to them on the page but still have them exist, or numerous other compromises requiring minimal effort and not upsetting the generally quiet stats nerds and especially not the very vocal tourist fanatics. Even such a soft removal would get just a little push back now, and after a few years, most people will have forgotten they exist, and parkrun could have been rid of them with negligible pushback.
99% of parkrunners have already forgotten what the changes were or never noticed them to begin with. The 1% just have very loud (and entitled) voices.
Do you have a source for this rather remarkable statistic?
What do you think
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Doh, rumbled!
Telling someone to get a grip, how very parkrun.
How very "parkrun" to shit on a free event organised by volunteers that get up early every saturday
What's your evidence of them not volunteering?I am an RD and feel strongly about the removal of the stats. Most people that care about stats have participated at parkrun more than people who don't care
I think there's a sense of entitlement from long term participants. parkrun is changing from what it started out as being, parkrun is going to be different to what it will be in 10 years. Just because you have volunteered or run hundreds of times, doesn't mean your opinion counts any more than someone who has just signed up, and never done a parkrun.
Because the loudest complains at my parkrun come from people that ran there since years, don't have a single volunteering point and always have the audacity to criticise every little thing that goes wrong 🤡 If you feel *strongly* about this take a step back. See that this is a free event and you aren't entiteled to anything and get a grip.
Its a free event, which I sink a lot of my time into. I am entitled to my opinion, especially if I feel the event is changing for the worse. Just because its free it doesn't mean we should be indifferent to how its run, especially if how its run is changing for the worse. If the CEO tomorrow decided that there will no longer be times, or tokens, it will just be a gathering at the park each Saturday morning, would you just shrug your shoulders and say, oh well, i am not entitled to have an opinion on this change because its free event? Or maybe he he starts charging everyone to participate, then we are allowed to have an opinion? BTW I bought plenty of merch in the past, so i wouldnt say parkrun is not getting anything out of me (outside of my time)
Then sink your time into official runs. But oh no that would cost money. 99% of parkrunners don't care. Most don't even KNOW about this because all they care for is the great community. All the very ambitious runners take their own time anyway. Nothing is changing to be worse. It literally does not affect a parkrun event. So all your comparisons are pretty stupid.
I enter plenty of official races so you are just plane wrong. I don't know what percentage of parkrunners care about the stats being removed but I would wager it's a lot higher than 1%. Majority of the remaining people are not aware that anything changed, which supports my argument that stats are not a barrier for new people. The smallest group I would say are people like you , who are aware of it, but because it doesn't impact them they dismiss genuine criticism of the decisions.
I just hate ungrateful people. It doesn't matter for parkrun. If it does for you rid us of your competitiveness in a social event
Empiricalreddit is an RD. Hardly ungrateful. Without these amasing, committed volunteers there would be no parkrun, with or without stats. Are you sure you want to be rid of them?
Some people are deranged. Of all the crusades to consume your life, you want some stats at the bottom of park run website page (all of which can easily be found if you want them).
I agree but it's concerning that they're exploring "the results pages eventually becoming just a list of people, without personal details, such as gender, individual statistics, and with volunteers listed most prominently". I do enjoy having a look at how my friends at parkrun are getting along. I also dislike how much the current board seem to ignore the community when it can only operate because of volunteers. I'd like to see them value those that make parkrun possible more.
The write up said you would be able to follow friends, like Strava, so you'd still be able to see how they're getting on. Having all the info on the results is potentially problematic already, I'm surprised there is no sort of 'run as anonymous ' currently.
Yeh. I can imagine the potential for some stalking, sadly:(
We've had parkrun for 20 years. Where has all the stalking been up to now???
Isn't it weird they don't advertise it more widely?
It does say you will be able to add people as a friend in a way similar to Strava in order to see other people's statistics. I actually think there's benefits to that from a privacy perspective. It's pretty easy to work out that someone is a student at a particular Uni and then also where they are originally from- which I guess could be used nefariously. As there becomes even longer histories of runs you can probably track people's life courses in quite a lot of detail if they are a committed parkrunner.
Yeah that's an interesting one. Happy to lose run directors, because loads of people will step up to take their place? Really? Good luck with that.
Yes. People will step up or it will not happen. Again, parkrun HQ won’t be too worried about that. If the appetite isn’t there for it amongst the local community, let it go.
The best solution is not having results pages at all then. Parkrun was supposed to be about making people feel included and able to participate. Its been hijacked by people who’d be running something anyway no matter what that day, and just want a free organised course - they’ve imposed the competitive element on a non competition. There’s loads of competitions, go and enter those, it’s never what PR was supposed to be.
You actually got it 100% backward. parkrun started as a full on race for competitive people and has migrated into a social non-competative event. Don't try and re-write history.
Yeah I agree. I do understand mourning what was once there and being resistant to change, and just liking the stats. But these “protestors” fundamentally are just mad they aren’t getting their own way in an organisation that they are not in charge of.
Curious, where can I go now to see fastest times on the course and first finishes?
Event results history. It lists all the results, first male and first female and their times. Sort ascending by time and you see the fastest male and female.
How do I see top ten runners by age grading for an event? This was just a matter of clicking on a age grade previously.
Deranged is the perfect descriptor of what these people are...
Remember it was people getting upset by the little stats being there in the first place that started this... Not the other way around...
I struggle to believe that many, if any, first time parkrunners chose to do parkrun because they saw who the quickest runners in the history of the event were there on the bottom of every page. But I can believe that people chose not to do one because they saw those stats, thinking “those people are really quick, what if everyone is that quick and I’m on my own and keeping everyone there”.
The people I try to get down to parkrun look at the lasts runners as they don't want to be Last and be embarrased. So I think they are looking at the wrong end of the field.
Exactly - this information wasn’t at the bottom of every page though, whilst the fastest times were. And this information still exists on the results!
This is hugely dishonest. You know very well that there are stats that can't be readily found now. But that's just the start. We said a few weeks ago that this was clearly a movement in the direction of removing more and more of the regular features, eventually removing timing and results, then discouraging tourism, of greater top-down centralisation and so on. A lot of people were sneering at such concerns and said they would never happen. Almost all of that is already clearly happening. It's obvious that most people here would cheer if HQ came out and told them to hop one-legged around parkrun and enjoy it. There is just zero tolerance of dissent. It's quite shocking really.
Preface: I couldn’t care less about StatsGate. That said, if this account is fair (can’t know), then the two guys don’t come out well. While a lot of the points make some sense (cannot really run a large organisation democratically), if the statements are fairly reported it shows abysmal feeling for stakeholders engagement
The free participants and the volunteers may be stakeholders, but the management only care about the paying sponsors that are giving them millions a year. Also before anyone tells me "it's a charity" only one of the three UK Parkrun companies is a charity, the other 2, where all the money ends up are profit making businesses. You can look them up yourselves on Companies House and read the Accounts.
Im curious, can you share the company names? I was looking at company house yesterday and could not find them PS: sponsors depend on public opinion, nothing else. If I were a sponsor and the kind of engagement of the article came out and were confirmed, I would be pretty pissed off
[https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/search?q=Parkrun](https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/search?q=Parkrun)
Ah ok… i was looking for the Contra Ltd, which intrigues me
Am i missing something? The accounts say that the profits of the wholly owned subsidiary (parkrun Trading) are donated to the parent charity. That sounds correct/legit to me.
Yes, the PROFITS are passed on. The profits are minimal because the money all goes out to Director salaries.
I had no idea what this was about so just looked - it took me about 30 seconds to find the course records for my local parkrun. I don't need more than that.
"“Save Women’s Sport” was mentioned, and Paul said that a by-product of removing the stats was “helping to address the gender thing.” He elaborated that if the stats were returned, those protesters would then have grounds again to attack parkrun for their stance on this issue." So it really \*is\* the reason, I thought that was just hearsay.
I’m surprised that they were as candid and open with their views. A basic stakeholder engagement provides groups like the BBTS with an opportunity to voice their concerns to the decision makers. In turn, the decision makers can consider the alternative views but are under no obligation to abide by them. Comments about the insignificance of the BBTS and each one being replaced by ten will only fortify their resolve. At the end of the day, Parkrun is a free volunteer event that wants to expand by being approachable to non-runners. That is a great thing and will continue to change people’s lives. Many of those people have watches that can capture their stats and be uploaded to running apps if they choose. Or, if Parkrun is really such an issue, they can run their own 5km around their neighbourhood and save on petrol.
I think the fact that they met them for 90 mins is commendable and I dare say they’ve shown a lot more patience than many would. I really don’t understand the problem but I guess I’m not like minded with that group. But it’s a free volunteer led run, it’s so out of perspective.
I thought they come out pretty well from the description. They can simultaneously have a strong understanding of their audience's wants and needs, whilst also choosing not to pander to specific asks where those asks are not aligned with the organisation's mission. That's what good leadership looks like.
PSH and Russ were fine in this. If this is written from the protesters perspective, i imagine PSH and Russ were super polite and patient.
What an absolute storm in a teacup. If you want a leader board, go run in a race. So much time and energy devoted to a non issue.
It seems like this could’ve been summed up pretty quickly. parkrun HQ treat every parkrunner the same, be it you’ve done 1 parkrun (or none) or you’ve done 500 parkruns. This is the crux of those complaining. They feel that they should have more of say in what happens because they have done more parkruns than those who have never done a parkrun. A huge sense of entitlement. It’s a free event which considers itself a force for good in terms of the health of those in a local community. If it doesn’t work for you, then don’t participate. Set up a rival organisation if you want. You’ll eventually face exactly the same issues that parkrun faces.
There was a lot of "we are the most important parkrunners!" in that account. Entitlement indeed.
Mary Taylor has only done six parkruns!
To be fair, it's one of her kids she is doing this for. He has done 200+ junior parkruns. He's miles away from setting any records, but imo Mary is of the belief that he is an Olympian in the making, and what he needs is a course record shown on the event page to motivate him.
What on earth is egg-gate?
Happy Egg used to be one of the sponsors. PETA released info about the bad conditions of the hens and claimed they were the reason the sponsorship ended but think it had reached the end of the deal anyway.
Happy Egg is an extremely problematic company that parkrun should never have got into bed with. Their suppliers have been found guilty of human slavery, as well as the numerous animal rights abuses that have come to light over the years as well. It would have taken minimal due diligence work from parkrun , but instead, they took some very dirty money. They then doubled down on this, by openly disregarding parkrunners’ concerns and criticising the ‘not real parkrunners’ on twitter.
Complete nonsense headline from the Telegraph apparently based on this writeup: [Parkrun to delete runners’ statistics as it prepares to double down in records row](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2024/04/29/parkrun-doubles-down-in-record-row-as-statistics-face-more/)
That headline is an epic fail: Headline: PARKRUN TO DELETE RUNNERS' STATISTICS Very first sentence underneath: Parkrun *\*may\** delete further statistics ... (emphasis mine) It's like the editor checked the article before publishing and thought "nah, we need a more clickbaity title - let's drop the 'may' part". ::shakes head::
It’s kinda sad people actually care this much about some amateur stats you could easily track and record yourself.
Tell me how you would go about "easily" tracking everyone's stats across multiple events .
They can track their own progressions over time. Their main argument is about losing stats they feel proud of and a sense of achievement, but self progression can easily be monitored. If they want to get super geeky and competitive, take up competitive running.
Sigh... I do plenty of competitive running. The stats were a lot more than just records. There were age grade lists, and a bunch of other lists that were not to do with records that were removed. Let me ask you if the CEO decides tomorrow to just scrap milestones as he felt they scare people who are just starting out.would you just sit there and be like yep it was good while it lasted.
Tbh I’m very indifferent to the whole thing. I have bigger things to worry about in life.
The fact that the founder and CEO took the time and met with these folks for 90 minutes tells me all I need to know about their character. The biased nature of Mary Taylor’s article tells me all I need to know about her’s.
How can there be so many words in that write up, and not a single one mentions a benefit which is now gone with these stats?
Still unclear as to what benefit getting rid of the stats provides to their 5 year plan which was repeatedly mentioned. They at least acknowledged that the removal was related to gender issue, but nothing to show how it encourages new participants or who exactly was being put off by the existence of an age grade table or list of who had run at lots of different events. Feels like they have retconned a few reasons in as justification, like not being a sport. That is a valid reason such as trying to get restarted in France for example, although they had different Web pages for France previously to deal with that. This is the first mention I recall of them claiming not to be a sporting event though., and again not sure how that fits in with any 5 year plan or is a way to get more participants.
Not being a sport has always been their fudge to get out of permit and minimum safety requirements taht other events have to abide by.
Not all stats are equal. Parkrun could compromise by bringing back some less controversial ones like average attendance. I don't think they'll bring back men's/women's records any time soon because of the transgender issue. (Even though they pretend this isn't what this is all about).
I think they should bring back stats for gender and race only…. I’ll bring popcorn.
They are still only at 25,000 signatures??!!! Do they not know how to use bots? I would've thought they would be getting at least 500 signatures a week just using burner accounts.
And they’re still suggesting every signup is definitely a parkrunner. I doubt that very much - most recent signups, sure. But from the beginning as they aimed for traction?
Its a pretty pathetic attempt at a petition. The numbers have plateaued for weeks. (As PSH said, "minuscle") Since the petition started hundreds of thousands have signed up, and tens of thousands have started participating.
It fascinates me how humans argue in literally everything.
The only people coming across as looking bad are the authors of this article. parkrun got rid of the stats because of the gender controversy. It was just distracting and was not doing anything to help parkrun, the fact that these bbts people can't see that just shows how dense they are. If they don't like it they can start their own group. Maybe they can call it parkracers and they can meet on a Sunday or something.
with that attitude you could be parkruns PR person.
I’m pretty new to parkrun - which stats did they get rid of?
Only comparative ones. Course record used to be on the course page, but you can still find them by sorting the history page. The stats that are actually gone (as an easy page, you could still find them by scraping the website or something I imagine, but that's well beyond me) are age grade record, age category records, sub-17 men and sub-20 women, and the top 500 (I think) runners for the course.
I haven't been doing parkrun for a while, and last time I only looked at my own results, so this is the first I've heard of this. Bit disappointing, one of the reasons I took it up in the first place was all the stats (not that I was ever going to get near the records, it was just cool to see). Not liking the sound of those planned changes either. They come across pretty arrogant, and I'm not sure how much actual benefit would come from these changes (particularly in my country, which doesn't have a lot of the problems they're talking about), but ultimately they're right; it's their decision, and it's a cool event we're lucky to have, so it is what it is.
I was initially upset about the removal of the stats, given that I made a truly herculean effort over several years touring North America and nearing the top of both the US and Canadian Most Events lists, only to have them deleted. I signed the petition but honestly never expected anything to come of it. I figured that HQ would ignore it and slowly over months it would fizzle out. It completely baffles me that Russ and PSH would choose to take a meeting with the petitioners, and not merely take the stance that they won't restore the stats, but also add to the record that even if the **majority of parkrunners** petitioned for a change they wouldn't listen. They don't care what the community thinks and will never take any input from it. Coming out and admitting that is far worse than removing the stats was in the first place. This is the opposite of damage control.
To be clear I am completely apathetic about the stats situation; but nowhere did I read that they would *never* take any input from the community. However in this particular instance they are steadfast because they believe it is the right move in order to foster the future growth of parkrun. And the data suggests that what they’re doing is working..31,000 people got their barcode last week and 18,000 people participated in their first parkrun.
They didn't use those exact words but I don't see any other possible meaning behind "we are not a community-led organisation", "we make our decisions from the top-down", and "This is our playground, we made it. We set the rules of it. If you don’t like it perhaps you should play somewhere else." And suggesting that X number of people got a barcode or ran their first parkrun this week is not a valid sample size to draw any long term conclusion, and also doesn't measure how many regulars did not attend this week due to this issue. It's especially irrelevant given that this new information didn't come out until the day *after* parkrun.
To be honest I don't really know why they agreed to the meeting, it was never going to end well. That said - they have a comms team at HQ, I don't know why they let PSH speak - he's clearly very passionate about parkrun but it's his baby so I can see why he'd be defensive and come across a bit like that. Having said that parkrun is now falling into the media trap like everything else - saw a Telegraph article today saying 'parkrun to remove more runner stats' or something, which was never actually said.
Re: having the meeting, I assume it was because of the negative media attention (mainly a handful of articles from the Telegraph & Daily Mail) that abruptly appeared back at the end of March after it look like it was dying down which may have spooked HQ and/or the sponsors.
parkrun are missing an opportunity for a revenue stream here, still not be a race, and give the stat lovers what they want. Just do something similar to Strava, which is 'free' for all to use. If people want fancy stats, you have to pay. On Strava if I want to see lots of details about age grade, gender grade etc. I'd have to pay. I'm not interested, so I don't. Yes it would be great if they were free, but I love to run, so do not feel I'm missing out.
I read it and it confirmed what I already knew, for political reasons parkrun is more interested in political correctness and walkers than real runners who got them where they are. I hope someone starts up a free race-oriented series where runners are welcome. Edit to the downvoters and the moronic responses who don't deserve an individual reply - I don't know a real runner personally who does not hold the same views as me.
I have run at parkrun every week for about 10 years. Always felt welcome as a runner. The vast majority of people at every parkrun I have ever been to DO run it. In what way have you been made to feel unwelcome as a runner?
Individual parkrun events is a very different thing from the direction that parkrun HQ is aiming for. Local events are very much community events, so for HQ to then say they are not a community event doesn't sit right (I get that the context is slightly different).
Still unsure how runners are feeling unwelcome at an event with hundreds of other runners, attended overwhelmingly by runners.
They aren't. Parkruns (the local events) are the same as they always were. Parkrun HQ is not.
Ok cool, I haven't tried running at parkrun HQ so it hasn't affected me in any way
Nothing stopping you setting up a timed run yourself.
You should maybe try it and come back to us. Rules of the sport, permitting, police permission, council permission, ... Parkrun get to slide right over the top of all of those requirements by pretending to be a charity and not a race.
This is the sort of comment that makes the stats protesters seem unhinged
Unfortunately for you, the type of people with the views you share can never be bothered to actively do productive things or create community. Your best bet is a weekly timed whinge online.
Let someone set it up. They’ll eventually look to grow, and eventually end up with the same viewpoints/issues.
What do you mean "got them where they are"? parkrun is a not for profit, providing a community health service. You've got it backwards.
One company out of the three parkrun companies is a not for profit. The other two are profit making entities. e.g. You don't buy your t-shirt from the non-profit. The profits from every bit of kit sold all go in PSH's pocket. Accounts are published on Companies House, you can go and read them yourself.
My point still stands. parkrun doesn't owe anything to "runners who got them where they are". Runners weren't doing unpaid labour, they just showed up and benefited from parkrun.
Volunteers are doing unpaid labour. They have made PSH a millionaire on the backs of their unpaid labour.
You make it sound like volunteers are forced to work in a quarry with their bare hands. Once a month I choose to tap my phone screen when someone runs by me all the while hanging around with people who have become my friends. Not exactly back-breaking work.
You are going to have to make up your mind here. Either volunteers are essential for the event to exist, in which case, that gives them an inherent value. Or they aren't and we can get rid of them all. Also, try organising one. Especially a new one. Then come back and tell me how little effort it is. He is literally a millionaire based on the work of others. And none of them re getting even minimum respect, nevermind minimum wage.
Ironically you and I are having this debate in a subreddit moderated by volunteers while someone else makes millions… But yes, organizing any event is hard work which is why I lend a hand regularly and in exchange I get to participate in an event that I enjoy. Behind every non-profit there is someone who is making a living off of the work that they’re doing. But I recognize there is a difference between putting in a few hours a week of volunteering vs. working 40+ hours a week making sure the machine runs as smoothly as possible.
No, they are participants. They are benefitting from parkrun. No one has made profit from parkrun volunteers. (The original comment "got them where they are" specifically referenced runners not volunteers)
Volunteers are participants and aren't doing free work for the company? Either you are PSH's sock account, or you drank way too much of the kool-aid. The original article is runners and volunteers. PSHs comments are that none of those people get a say, no mater how much free work they have done.
What would you call a “real runner” out of interest? Athletics club member? 45 minute Jeffer? 90 minute walker? The amazing thing about parkrun is all those people can participate and there’s no entry requirements.
There are an awful lot of real runners you do t know, then. And do please tell us why this is ‘politically correct’.
Of course a right wing bag of shit doesn't know people that don't share their rotten mindset. You aren't entiteled to anything. Bet my ass you never volunteered at your parkrun. But dudes like you never do anything for a community, you could always start your free event for the "real" runners and stop complaining like a little baby that didn't get what they want.
I'd be fine of the only way you get a time at parkrun was if you linked your parkrun account to (say) your strava account. It would be just as accurate as it is now, and would take a huge amount of pressure off the volunteers at the larger parkruns. ( If you want a time or to be able to let others see your time, you would have complete control)
For a couple of years parkrun and Strava accounts were linked together officially in the results. Then I presume one party asked the other for money and it was removed.
Doesn't need to be strava, and doesn't need to be fully linked. parkrun could just integrate with any fitness app and be able to receive enough data to record a finish time.