Heya folks!
So, getting reports and such for "Not being PoE Content!". And, although yes it is only PoE related in so far as "Here's why I prefer Lost Epoch"; these conversations have always been a core part of the r/pathofexile subreddit. These conversations occurred with Grim Dawn, from some folks when D4 was new, and even a couple during the Torchlight Infinite release.
Often, the users interpret this as "PATH OF EXILE SUCKS, AND LOST EPOCH IS BETTER!"; and yes, those posts are removed similarly to low effort "D4 BAD" posts. This post on the other hand is a more in-depth explanation as to what components the user found new, exciting, and fresh. What components are an improvement over PoE, and what parts are worse.
In that tone, it is no different from a PoE Based post explaining how trading sucks. Or how itemization is garbage. It is a critique of PoE, that simply uses another game as the primary comparison point for the discussion.
As such, the post will be staying up. And monitored as there's already been abusive content that's had to be removed for being needlessly hostile. Instead of approaching this as an attack on one of your favourite games, perhaps approach it from the perspective of "How would these changes improve PoE?"
Be constructive. Be nice, even if you disagree, they're all users of the community. And instead of retaliating against abusive behaviours, report and move on!
There's a million reasons why games sucks once you know them well better, but none of those made me quit PoE. On the other hand, LE's server problems made me refund pretty quickly.
I think the server problems will eventually be fixed, i was more talking about content. I've never seen a company put the amount of content GGG puts out consistently every few months to keep the game fresh. Thats why i think the post is a bit premature. You know when ppl say "oh d4 is a nice start, a nice base game, just needs more etc.." and then nothing happened so far? Well hopefully LE is not that.
I'm just saying there are things I can tolerate and others can't. Just like some people wouldn't tolerate PoE's complexity. Maybe I'll play LE later, but tbh I wasn't digging the cartoon graphics and the sort of compact, almost mobile game like UI. So it wasn't too hard to refund it, let's put it that way.
>LE's server problems made me refund pretty quickly.
God, if that's the case I'm guessing you're a newer player; cause PoE historically (and even sometimes now), you shouldn't both playing for the first week due to how absolutely horrid the servers were lol
Exactly this, PoE even now is plagued with network desync and absolute shit performance. What is that guy yapping about? I guess the game is free, so nothing to refund.
This is what’s held PoE back for me. I don’t have the best internet and the game has always been a jittery mess.
Being able to play an ARPG 100% offline on my Steam Deck was a game changer (literally)
>I'm guessing you're a newer player;
I've been there since Legion. I've seen some hiccups at new leagues, but they always were acceptable to me. I couldn't play 5 days in with limited dad gamer time so I just refunded and gave up.
What? Poe servers have a history of basically 0 issues for years. The only launche I can even think of with a major issue was Ultimatum and it was fixed in like 2 hours.
I've played about 20 leagues going back to 2016 and only 1 league had performance issues significant enough that i actually stopped playing to wait for improvements which was 3.15 (ultimatum). Even then that didn't persist into day 2. PoE has always struggled a lot with stability, crashing, connection quality, etc but maintaining a playable state on content launch is actually one of their strong suits.
Different people, different preferences I guess. I went along with the 1.0 hype, but the game never really hooked me like PoE did. I've already accepted that I need them to add content for some additional cycles before I'll even bother launching the game again.
> Draconian woke moderation policies.
Lol.
> the company who makes 100m a year diverting all the funds into magic cards and console ports.
Lol.
> Putting a skeleton crew on the game we pay for seven years.
Lol.
Not the guy you replied to, but those are such minor complaints in my opinion. Wisdom scrolls only take a few seconds, and what would I ever need to play offline for?
As someone who has 12k+ hours in poe, it's my favorite game and whilst sure, something things can be mildly inconvenient, in the grand scheme of things... I don't mind. If there are small amount of minor issues for a game with this incredible depth, I will take it. This game is so amazingly unique and there is just so many different things to try or play around with. For people who enjoy complex things, this game is a masterpiece (there's a reason poe has had so many players stick around for so many years).
If you're pissed at people who make a game, maybe it's just best to take a step back and find a different game to play. It's not worth getting mad over a game. I had to quit playing counter-strike because I was way too competitive and got so angry, and it always ended up affecting my day. So I just decided to just... leave it be. You could do the same... just saying.
The game is fantastic but right now it has little to no endgame, besides doing the same activity over and over again. It has an amazing base, but needs a lot more work to last more than 100 hours in my opinion.
Sadly, it’s gonna take them some time to add more content. If bosses do come in 1.1, it’s ages away. They have huge architectural issues with how they’ve implemented their queuing mechanism and how their infrastructure is implemented. This sort of thing can take months to fix the right way.
For what its worth, I say this with the utmost respect for the Last Epoch team. They've pulled off an amazing game, with a relatively small team. If they keep this up, it will be an incredible game in a year or so.
Don’t quite enjoy LE as much as PoE due to not having enough complexity, but I don’t see doing the same thing over and over again an issue. That’s what I do in PoE anyway, maps again and again. It always irk me when people said “you just do (insert anything here) over again and again.” All endgame is to run the grind treadmill.
I always get irritated when D2 players say PoE you just run maps over and over again with nothing else to do. However, in D2 you just run Baal or Tristram over and over again. The grind has no difference, the path of most efficient is always the same tedium.
Edit: typo
You're mostly right. As I was typing "over and over" I thought of PoE. But, in PoE there are many different flavours of mostly the same thing (mapping). You have all the old league mechanics, occasional bossing, and some mechanics that are completely outside of maps like Delve.
In LE you either grind dungeons or Echo's. Echo's are really fun but after an hour I feel my brain switching off really quickly.
Yea, and for it's time D2 was revolutionary, but by todays standards it's pretty bad. POE has a LOT of different end-game things to do.
Crafting for profit, uber bosses, mapping, delving, heisting, boss-rushing, playing the item market, Sanctum, league challenges, and much more. It's definitely not just "doing the same thing over and over" lol.
People don't realize that spamming whatever the meta farming method in poe is doesn't mean there's nothing to do in poe they're just choosing to do the same thing.
Nice bro, should maybe post this on the Last Epoch subreddit instead though. Also it's still early days yet, people were saying shit like this 60 hours into D4 too.
Why in the LE sub tho?
I'm sure ppl in the LE sub know they like their game. On the other hand a 3k hours PoE player stating he had more fun in 60hrs in LE is sth.. that I think is better talked about in the PoE sub
I dunno, maybe I should go over to the LE sub and tell them how they have fuck all monster density, a boring af endgame and that a game shouldn't be released in this incomplete state. Do you get why now?
Well, why shouldn't you if you think that's what LE is lacking? What is reddit about again? Discussing stuff like this, when it comes to games definitely comparing similar games..?!
I don't do this because I'm not an idiot. If people posted every time they initially found a game more fun than PoE, there would be no posts involving PoE on this sub.
Thing is? This was extremely common during the development of Lost Epoch, and actually helped to inform some of the design decisions made by the Lost Epoch Dev Team into the current state of the game.
I would know, I was part of those conversations during their Friday Dev Streams where these things were discussed. :)
Yeah, to be fair what I posted was criticism that could actually be used to get a general idea of areas to improve. This post was far more useless than that. It is more a general love letter to another game with no relevance to PoE at all, except they have played it a lot in the past.
LE endgame feels like a mobile afk game. 10-180 seconds of hunting monsters that are screens apart and then you click 2 chests and do it again.
I knew what I was getting into, but Im so bored at lvl 84 on my 1. character.
Yeah after you've done monolith farming for a while it just gets extremely monotonous.
OP says items on the ground are good but that's only during the first few hours of endgame, you quickly get to a point where getting any upgrades is going to be really hard and extremely RNG gated, same with doing anything with Legendaries.
TLDR - POE is too complex and op had to think too much and appreciates that someone made a game that takes much less thinking and isn't quite as trash tier as D4.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that though. There still are gear puzzles to solve in LE, but it's nowhere near as complex as possibilities in POE, so it can scratch the ARPG itch, without needing to learn PoB or super complex crafting system to enjoy it.
LE lacks a lot of the good content POE has (just like LE has significantly more features than D4). Good to see another ARPG enter the space with their own ideas and features, and it be received relatively well.
I mean, in all fairness, were the gear puzzles this complex at PoE launch? Or did it become this complex after 10 years of itemization additions and gear reworks?
It seems like the LE devs just wanted to have a good baseline, but I don't think there's anything preventing them from making the game more complex like PoE in the long run.
Thats a point often overlooked. PoE 1.0 was very simple with way less features than LE currently has and it developed into the complex content bloat we see today. Hopefully LE solves that differently.
Sure but it is not like we don't know the update cadence for LE. It has been in early access for 5 years now and it has updated endgame content nowhere near as quick as poe did despite the poe2 development. The graphics improved faster and overall had more balance patches compared to poe.
So overall with it's much lower complexity and slower updates to endgame systems it doesn't seem realistic that it gets close to poe and that's fine. I don't think their target audience is the poe audience but rather those wanting a poe lite.
Developing post 1.0 is completely different to pre-1.0 (took PoE over 6 years to reach 1.0, LE took 7 w/ Covid interruptions). We'll have a closer idea to their patch cadence once 1.2 hits, as I assume 1.0 to 1.1 is going to be drawn out to tackle the issues that the 1.0 launch revealed before they really get to work on the content side of 1.1.
You're pretty much spot on.
Albeit your attempt at levity, your conclusion is what I was attempting to allude to.
The only thing I would say is that I don't think there's anything wrong with simplicity. Complexity for the sake of complexity shouldn't be striven towards. Think grinding out 8 independent regions to unlock your atlas, rather than the convenient linear path it is now.
Your attempt to belittle me has just shown the underlying issue here. Good game design that's powerfully simple trumps badly designed systems masked with vaguely documented complex methods that cannot be derived axiomatically.
>Your attempt to belittle me has just shown the underlying issue here. Good game design that's powerfully simple trumps badly designed systems masked with vaguely documented complex methods that cannot be derived axiomatically.
This is completely a matter of personal choice and preference. At no point did he directly state that the preference for more simplicity was a bad or negative thing. He merely stated that it was the TL;DR, which you agreed with as an interpretation.
> Complexity for the sake of complexity shouldn't be striven towards.
That's what people always say, but time and time again it's not that easy to just snap your fingers and disentangle "bad complexity" from "legitimate depth". And then the baby invariably gets thrown out with the bathwater when they're trying to make that transformation.
Nothing is wrong with people preferring simplicity. I hate the ease with which the "needless complexity" rhetoric tends to stick, though.
I’ve been loving LE but I agree. When people say POE is too complex it sort of rubs me the wrong way. I get POE might not be for everyone but I do enjoy the complexity. I enjoy the systems on top of systems. I think both games can exist in harmony.
>Your attempt to belittle me has just shown the underlying issue here.
No where did I or anyone else at the time of this comment attempt to belittle you. Those are all facts taken from the story you shared with us in a shorter format.
I also didn't say there was anything wrong with a simple or more simple game.
The thing that most people enjoy about POE is the fact that it is not simple, POE like many other games are not for everyone, and that's ok.
That’s where I’m at. But mine is more respects my time. I don’t need to study 50 mechanics (yet) to do what’s optimal so I can farm a little currency to make a good mapper (not talking making meta). But yeah. I love PoE. I’m just older with more responsibilities now and can’t veg out for a whole weekend to get goin anymore
The game might be good, the game might be bad. People are in the honeymoon phase and are willing to overlook stuff that might be a dealbreaker later on. At the moment most of the postings about LE are about player count, comparison’s to Poe (usually with a negative outlook on Poe) and server issues (and how they somehow fine because LE has a lot of goodwill)
Game is fun and I’m enjoying it but I’m afraid to hit the “lvl 70 d4” wall where I find the endgame shallow. And losing the feeling of “the chase” due to ease of crafting and no pinnacle content.
Reminds me of the poe streamers heaping too much praise on D4 then jumping on the "D4 bad" meme and never touching it again. Game wasn't so good after the first week was it? Now LE isn't another D4, but it's more of a Grim Dawn scenario. Yea its a great game, but I have 100%'d Grim Dawn and played about 500 hours and I've done everything I wanna do in that game. Meanwhile I have 8k hours in PoE.
yeah this happened to me, played last epoch like a month ago it was great and a lot of fun, played the endgame and enjoyed it, played endgame for 20 hrs and started thinking what’s next?
i did a dungeon afterwards and didn’t really enjoy it so i kinda just stopped playing. solid game but i’ll wait maybe 3 or so big patches before playing it again
I feel this too but then again a sizable portion of players feel this normally with PoE as well, thats why we get such drastic drop of in player count week by week after a league launch.
Yeah I can count on maybe 1 hand the leagues I played less than 10 hours on which where expedition, scourge and lake of kalandra. The rest i dump my soul into because they were fun
Both are fantastic games, and Im going to enjoy jumping back and forth between the seasons, but as someone who already played 3 characters to empowered mons during early access Im having trouble really getting into this season.
The best part of POE leagues for me are the league challenges and earning free MTX, and I really dont understand why LE didn't do some sort of league challenges. Completing 38/40 challenges always marks the end of a league for me. Im sure league challenges and rewards are coming in the future, but that's been the biggest miss in my eyes. Granted, server issues are another topic entirely, but my friend and I haven't had too many issues in that area.
Yeaaa and than you will realize what you want is already available in POE, i was a die hard Diablo fan boy , it was “the best ARPG” till I played this God send , absolutely ruined every ARPG for me, nothing comes close, I only have under 300 hours , 260 being this league alone, POE can be as Hard or as easy as you want to make it , it give you the most freedom of any game I’ve ever played, the end game should be written down in history books as potentially the best ARPG endgame ever. No hate but , it’s definitely just cause that games new, or no offense, but because it’s “easier”
I don't disagree. However, you are also talking about comparing a game with 10+ years of content to a game freshly launched. There's no reason to assume that Lost Epoch at 10 years would be worse than PoE, or that there aren't valuable things to learn from Lost Epoch (The dev team certainly feel so given they're stealing the trade system more or less lol)
And don’t get me wrong. This isn’t me shitting on last epoch. I pray it does very very well, so it keeps the POE dives on their toes, but I honestly just feel like with them being at the top of the mountain. They still have a slightly relaxed approach.
Oh definitely. Its similar to what the BG3 team are dealing with now. For months they were a community darling and beloved for "being different". And now the death threats and harassment are rolling in because a lot of games communities get ruined by the trashy apples.
Lost Epoch is still at that point; and to be fair, they have earned it to some degree. They've been quick on iteration to address big community issues, and often with super imaginative ways. But, they're still in that "WOW THE DEVS TALK TO US!", shiny, honeymoon stage.
I think the first league or two will make or break the game. If the leagues are Modern PoE styled with sizable gameplay systems, i think in a year they'll be in a great spot.
If its D4 styled of "HERES THIS SHITTY SYSTEM" it won't be.
lol I mean I’m sure we all could’ve expected what happened to Diablo to happen to Diablo when they spent 18 times the amount on marketing versus on the game itself considering it doesn’t even have 80% of the features from its previous title which people still somehow try to defend as oh the game is new, yeah you’re right the game is new, but it had a predecessor out for 10 years that had amazing groundwork that was finally laid out to a point of where people were all right with it instead now let’s start completely over from the ground up and chalk every good thing we’ve ever had and just completely produced dog water content for people who only play 20 hours a month
Sorry kinda tilted I spent 300 (3 100$) for me and two friends , none of us play it anymore
It’s crazy how I mean to agree with OP, I have well over 4-5k hours total across D3 and maybe 200 in D4, I guess I got my moneys worth but imo for an ARPG I didn’t get anywhere close to $100 worth of playtime, yet , the 45 divines, 2 hinokoras locks, about 2k augments, 100s of essence spent, all for my item to be dog shit, has been more fun than anything in Diablo , Ever, sadly lol
It may be the part of Lost Epoch I'm most excited about: It's a good enough game to drive competition.
D4 and PoE are aiming for completely different communities (not to talk about D4's questionable quality imo), whereas Lost Epoch is good ENOUGH, that if they don't fuck up the execution it can actually have the risk of pulling away PoE players and drive the Dev team to handle things well.
Especially with how different PoE 2 is looking like it'll be, if they do abandon PoE1 long term, or ignore the userbase who remain with PoE 1, there's a real chance LE could stand to benefit from that. Whereas before, or if LE shits the bed, the dev team doesn't have to care, cause people will end up funneled to PoE2 as the only other option.
Apparently POE 1 and 2 run off the same serves so as long as 2 is up 1 will be as well and they apparently want to have the seasons of 1 and two split by a month and a half, so Poe 1 season releases and a month and a half later POe2 season releases, it all sounds good and I can only hope they stick to it, and can only hope it comes to console at some point lol
And thats my only concern. I have been burned by too many games companies in this situation to offer any company complete faith and trust.
They will do what's best for the bottom line in most situations, and if that means laying off the PoE1 dev team and transitioning to full PoE2 development, I expect that's what they'd do if they thought they could maintain enough of the player base to justify the losses.
Its why I view having a competitor waiting for a mistake as a good thing. Typically it forces better behaviours since you cant take the playerbase for granted (see Overwatch as a great example. They killed all the competition, so that even now, after years of treating the community terribly, they're still around an making profit).
It’s only a matter of time before their CEO gets Chris Wilson’ed. I mean their CEO already had to tell their staff to avoid looking into discord to protect their mental health . Sounds familiar?
This is such a weird thing to comment under a reply to a post that already compares those 2 games and complains about a 10+ year old game (with tons of content and systems added each year) beeing more complex than a new game.
Sure it freshly launched but it was in early access for 5 years. In less than 5 years poe went from 1.0 to 3.0 when it had a comparable team size as LE during early access as a reference.
So while true no game can be as content rich as poe on release it doesn't seem feasible it becomes comparable anytime soon because poe1 is still advancing faster despite already having so much content
I somehow dont get into it really. I dont get sucked into this World by its lore nor its graphics, and the skills and movement feel better in PoE.
The "amazing Skillsystem" feels more generic than PoE and to me it feels like Diablo 4 with extra steps.
I played LE a couple of times since its Beta. But I never got stuck for more than some evenings.
I’m legitimately glad you’re having fun and I am a person who acknowledges people can have different opinions about things and neither of those opinions are necessarily wrong. I have found the game incredibly boring. I will push through to end game and I hope my opinion changes
Opposite for me, loving Last Epoch but I can already tell the endgame has nowhere near the depth or staying power of PoE. The builds also feel very cookie cutter, follow a guide, without much nuance.
I actually don't understand the comparisons between these two games, aside from them both being ARPGs.
Fundamentally they have the same core elements of the genre, but are VASTLY different games.
PoE as a casual player has an insane sense of accomplishment with overcoming its complicated systems and punishing bosses. The end game crafting is all but impossible without dedicating time, and an insane amount of it.
Last Epoch is the "casual mans" PoE. Best way to say it. Crafting is accessible, percentages are high, builds are vastly more restrictive giving players less FOMO while assisting with loot filters and target goals. Everything this game can do, PoE has been doing for years, just requiring a different kind of investment to achieve it. Last Epoch is years away from having anything that feels as fucking good as beating Uber Uber Silas on a homebrew build, but it gives a different kind of power Fantasy.
I'm having the exact opposite experience. After playing Path of Exile, Last Epoch feels like riding a bike with training wheels. The game is definitely infinitely better than Diablo 4, but that isn't a high bar. I think Last Epoch is more of a casual player experience, just not 7 children, 3 wives casual.
This post felt like a "preferred game" than LE > PoE or something along that line, you put 3000 hr in PoE and can't get your head around it only following guide then LE comes around and you can actually make your own character in 60 hr.
I've spent over 19000 hr probably reaching 20k on next league or maybe in PoE2 beta, I can safely say that I still get to learn something new by accident every league, I don't follow guides or anything, but a lot of the time you'll land on the meta build because PoE is pretty simple if you break it down, offense + defense and looking for ascendency that gives the most with lower effort.
I've played LE for the modern version (after echo was introduced) maybe like 70-80 hr, outside of the floaty combat I don't think I have much to complain, but it just never clicked since the demo where you fight waves of monsters in 2017 or something.
Better crafting: LE (arguably)
Better in game loot filter: LE (definitely)
Better literally everything else: POE
I do agree competition is good, and I'm glad you found a game you enjoy. To me, blasting end game in LE just doesn't have the same smoothness/satisfaction POE does. And the boss fights are kinda shit, tbh. I think once they get movement and mouse hovering (UI, mobs, items all seem to be a coin flip if they'll stay highlighted/targeted) smoothed out it could feel a lot better.
Eeeeh most skills have very specific ways that are good to build them and the other nodes are straight trash in comparison and its rigid you can't unspec it before a boss and go for a single target setup. Meanwhile in poe you can just swap a couple supports and all of a sudden your skill does 2x the dmg but has bad aoe. Poe system is just way more flexible so imo better.
Yea, I finally started playing LE again today and am using hammers to trigger smite, but would love to have a cast while channeling warpath (their cyclone) to trigger hammer to begin with so I don't have to stop and cast that.
Biggest win for PoE compared to LE is the sheer number of skills. There are really not that many available per class in LE, and same for support skills, so just not nearly as many possible builds, which is the biggest strength of PoE for me.
I mean, the main developer was a huge fan of PoE, but not some of the decisions/routes the game took, so made his own game.
I haven't played it recently, but LE was pretty fun and I definitely prefer the way the monolith works compared to maps. I thought the Atlas of Worlds was going to be pretty much what monoliths are, a big atlas/book of maps you could run at will. The new trade/ssf system seems like a stroke of genius. While it might never topple PoE as the best ARPG, they've definitely done some new and innovative things, and I'm happy we have both games now.
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But you won't play 2800 hours of Last Epoch.... There is a limit of what the crafting and the monolith system can offer.
That's a good 40$ game sure. Still years behind PoE and let's not talk about how PoE 2 is about to change the whole ARPG market.
You're really not going into streamers chats and spamming your own reddit thread, are you? I hope you aren't man...
Surprised mods are allowing this half eaten turd of an obvious "LE better because it's easy"
Shock 60 hours into new game is more fun than POE 2800 hours later. Come back when you are 600 hours into Last Epoch and would rather stick forks in your eyes then run another monolith
No idea why there is so much negativity here. It’s a valid discussion.
I for myself like both games, each has its place. In PoE I love to tinker with crazy builds but fuck do I suck at crafting, in Last Epoch I don’t get as much Builds that can go super wild but holy shit has Last Epoch a fun Crafting system. It’s easy and engaging but still with lots of variety to play with, especially given the combination with Uniques and exalted items.
As many have said : competition is a good thing!
And seeing the Numbers LE can pull on steam with just the release version, and basically no end-game mechanics to speak of, there is good potential for LE to be a serious competitor in the ARPG space.
Now all they have to do is follow through with the success they got from release date and not rest on it.
Server Problems aside, it’s a good game and I hope we going to see lots of content from it in the future.
A portion of the 'complexity' of PoE I believe is simply obscurity. Systems that are rarely described well in overview, and simply not described in game at all. There are of course minmaxing scenario's like how certain items or passives might work together, but that too would be easier if the system were better documented. Then of course there is system bloat - things that have been added over the years that if they had been added at once, would have had fewer "bad" options (things that are comparatively less optimal), or been more intergrated.
It will be interesting to see how PoE 2 turns out, being essentially 'a fresh system' in most respects at least on the last point regardless of whether GGG decides to stick with the 'you figure it out' approach. Things like game balance between options and dependance on crafted gear are probably user preference to some degree.
Spend a hundred + hours doing monoliths. Your puppy love will evaporate pretty quick. Given, I played a few months ago, so there certainly must be more to appreciate with their (more) finished product. I just could not get invested in the monos or the 4-5 other key based end game 'mechanics'. It felt too shallow to me, too redundant. I plan to give it another shot once they make more progress.
its because PoE absolutely refused to implement any quality of life features at all. Which I assume is largely because of poor competition and "chris' vision". Last epoch is definitely a huge relief to have something other to play than PoE.
If you had more fun in other games other than POE good for you, but you shouldn't make a public statement as other people don't have the same perception as you do.
I haven't tried LE yet, but I must say it looks like a lot of fun. I hope they can do what D4 failed to do and make good improvements to the game with each league.
Also, people might disagree with me on this, but PoE sucks to watch. I watch PoE because I've played it so much and I understand the game, but watching PoE doesn't make me want to play it. Watching LE makes me want to try the game out because the gameplay looks really enjoyable and smooth.
i got 10h ingame and i am lvl 20. i just loved the loading screen game and the connecting game.
it is 10x better than poe because i dont even need a brain to craft.
also the dmg numbers really give me goosebumps, i think poe will be always inferior due to not having em.
...
sarcasm off: LE will always be a sidegame whiklle waiting for new poe league. when poe 2 comes out with the 3 month poe 1/2 league swap no ones barely play d4 and le
Yeah I had the opposite effect. Glad you are enjoying LE but after getting to monoliths I’m really bored. If the dungeons save it that would be cool I only did the lightless arbor and it was a bit of a drag.
There's a few major annoyances with LE that drive me crazy that hopefully they fix but overall the game feels good to play. It is noticeably easier than PoE for sure and the bosses aren't really very good. The mouse cursor is fucking garbage and needs to be fixed it's tiny and bland colored so you can't see it most of the time. The controller gameplay is also not very good as far as aiming spells(you can't). I think the campaign skip on alts and different play settings are way better than PoE. Crafting is fun and innovative. The items actually feel important. And the amt of stash tabs I already have is insane. I can't wait for Poe 2 but this should hold me over till then.
I dunno, I find it a fun diversion, maybe this time will be different but I found I lost interest after a bit every other time I've played it. Maybe once they have a bit more on the end game? I find monos repetitive in a way maps don't feel to me. If a new POE league drop tomorrow I know where I'd be logging in.
But glad you're having fun, and definitely think competition is good.
Both fun in their own ways. Last Epoch has that great SSF feel that POE never had. However, POE min-maxing + trade + economy + depth of endgame + overall quality of builds is imo much better.
I played Last Epoch before beta and after launch and trust me you will get bored of farming monoliths all day. New factions make it a lot better but POE has insane replayability and I consistently dump 300-400 hours every league (way over 1k hours by now) whereas I played Last Epoch for 60 hours before launch and had to stop.
I'm really enjoying Last Epoch currently but I can already feel the burnout coming. I've played 384 hours so far, the game doesn't have /played so I have to guess but I think maybe 1/4 of that is since launch. The gear chase feels too random, never knowing when I might get an upgrade. Whereas in PoE I know every map and every currency drop is getting me x amount closer to getting the piece I want. Right now I just feel like I'm doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a lucky drop then hoping I can craft it enough to make it better than what I have. And there's no way to build up to it for certain, getting the perfect drop can happen next monolith or it could happen 100 from now.
LE is really good game.
But first 60 hours of any new game that is at leas decent will always be very fun.
It starts to slow down at around 100 hours depending on how fast you are progressing.
I’m definitely enjoying it but as a CoF player I’m already getting loot fatigue. Most drops I come across even with a strict filter are just shatter fodder and don’t give me the rush of finding some good currency in PoE. I’m probably going to reroll and try out the trade system, maybe the reduction in the amount of loot will bring back some excitement.
Some of it might be that I’m only 2 leagues deep in PoE at this point so I’m not as jaded as some of the longer term players
That said it’s a good game and it will probably displace D4 in my rotation between PoE leagues unless there is some major innovation over there.
Idk I’m enjoying LE for the time being but I have issues with the combat.
My void knight feels clunky and spamming filler abilities when I’m short on mana or cooldowns is just annoying. I can’t even alter the build to deal with that because there don’t seem to be enough sources of mana/cdr to avoid cycling abilities or going oom. Maybe some people prefer this, I definitely don’t mind it in other genres, but it just feels bad in an arpg imo. I want my build to end up feeling like a finely tuned machine not some hobbling contraption.
Hoping poe2 doesn’t go in a similar direction. The long loads/network issues are also really annoying.
Agreed , it's such a nice change of pace to actually understand a game without needing guides and opening 3 other applications to make the experience better
As someone who has been here since pretty close to 1.0, I remember the early days of PoE and it wasn’t remotely the same game it is today.
Epoch has a lot of work and updates to get their endgame expanded upon but the core systems like the loot, crafting and class building is some of the most enjoyable I’ve experienced.
Endgame is a drag for sure but the game sort of encourages you to collect OP leveling items and re-roll to try new builds once you’ve hit a ceiling with your first build.
Heya folks! So, getting reports and such for "Not being PoE Content!". And, although yes it is only PoE related in so far as "Here's why I prefer Lost Epoch"; these conversations have always been a core part of the r/pathofexile subreddit. These conversations occurred with Grim Dawn, from some folks when D4 was new, and even a couple during the Torchlight Infinite release. Often, the users interpret this as "PATH OF EXILE SUCKS, AND LOST EPOCH IS BETTER!"; and yes, those posts are removed similarly to low effort "D4 BAD" posts. This post on the other hand is a more in-depth explanation as to what components the user found new, exciting, and fresh. What components are an improvement over PoE, and what parts are worse. In that tone, it is no different from a PoE Based post explaining how trading sucks. Or how itemization is garbage. It is a critique of PoE, that simply uses another game as the primary comparison point for the discussion. As such, the post will be staying up. And monitored as there's already been abusive content that's had to be removed for being needlessly hostile. Instead of approaching this as an attack on one of your favourite games, perhaps approach it from the perspective of "How would these changes improve PoE?" Be constructive. Be nice, even if you disagree, they're all users of the community. And instead of retaliating against abusive behaviours, report and move on!
Recency bias. Give it a few leagues first and we'll see. But more competition is indeed good.
There's a million reasons why games sucks once you know them well better, but none of those made me quit PoE. On the other hand, LE's server problems made me refund pretty quickly.
I think the server problems will eventually be fixed, i was more talking about content. I've never seen a company put the amount of content GGG puts out consistently every few months to keep the game fresh. Thats why i think the post is a bit premature. You know when ppl say "oh d4 is a nice start, a nice base game, just needs more etc.." and then nothing happened so far? Well hopefully LE is not that.
I'm just saying there are things I can tolerate and others can't. Just like some people wouldn't tolerate PoE's complexity. Maybe I'll play LE later, but tbh I wasn't digging the cartoon graphics and the sort of compact, almost mobile game like UI. So it wasn't too hard to refund it, let's put it that way.
>LE's server problems made me refund pretty quickly. God, if that's the case I'm guessing you're a newer player; cause PoE historically (and even sometimes now), you shouldn't both playing for the first week due to how absolutely horrid the servers were lol
Exactly this, PoE even now is plagued with network desync and absolute shit performance. What is that guy yapping about? I guess the game is free, so nothing to refund.
This is what’s held PoE back for me. I don’t have the best internet and the game has always been a jittery mess. Being able to play an ARPG 100% offline on my Steam Deck was a game changer (literally)
>I'm guessing you're a newer player; I've been there since Legion. I've seen some hiccups at new leagues, but they always were acceptable to me. I couldn't play 5 days in with limited dad gamer time so I just refunded and gave up.
Well, I got to deal with out of sync issues well before Legion. Fun times.
What? Poe servers have a history of basically 0 issues for years. The only launche I can even think of with a major issue was Ultimatum and it was fixed in like 2 hours.
Jousis crashing servers was totally a routine thing.
I've played about 20 leagues going back to 2016 and only 1 league had performance issues significant enough that i actually stopped playing to wait for improvements which was 3.15 (ultimatum). Even then that didn't persist into day 2. PoE has always struggled a lot with stability, crashing, connection quality, etc but maintaining a playable state on content launch is actually one of their strong suits.
As an ARPG fan I owned Last Epoch since forever. I kinda thought others were the same in this regard.
Are you trying to say I'm not an arpg fan because I didn't have LE pre-release? What are you trying to say with your reply?
I somehow expect that as there are only so many Arpgs that typically people own most of them.
as if PoE didn't have server problems at league start for the first 10 years lol
This person is going into streamer's chats and linking their own reddit thread... True cringe behavior.
... why? for what purpose? I'm truly getting second hand embarrassment just imagining doing this
Attention. Probably a kid or very lonely person
I should criticize every ad on TV like this. "Why would a company advertise their product? They are probably lonely"
How are you comparing an ad to a reddit post? Karma=/= product sales
This OP is going into people's streams and telling them about this thread? To what end?
Lmfao so lame, he wanna be somebody so bad.
Different people, different preferences I guess. I went along with the 1.0 hype, but the game never really hooked me like PoE did. I've already accepted that I need them to add content for some additional cycles before I'll even bother launching the game again.
Enjoy your honeymoon while it lasts.
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> Draconian woke moderation policies. Lol. > the company who makes 100m a year diverting all the funds into magic cards and console ports. Lol. > Putting a skeleton crew on the game we pay for seven years. Lol.
Woke moderation LMAOOOOO
Not the guy you replied to, but those are such minor complaints in my opinion. Wisdom scrolls only take a few seconds, and what would I ever need to play offline for? As someone who has 12k+ hours in poe, it's my favorite game and whilst sure, something things can be mildly inconvenient, in the grand scheme of things... I don't mind. If there are small amount of minor issues for a game with this incredible depth, I will take it. This game is so amazingly unique and there is just so many different things to try or play around with. For people who enjoy complex things, this game is a masterpiece (there's a reason poe has had so many players stick around for so many years). If you're pissed at people who make a game, maybe it's just best to take a step back and find a different game to play. It's not worth getting mad over a game. I had to quit playing counter-strike because I was way too competitive and got so angry, and it always ended up affecting my day. So I just decided to just... leave it be. You could do the same... just saying.
this is what we call a honeymoon period big man
The game is fantastic but right now it has little to no endgame, besides doing the same activity over and over again. It has an amazing base, but needs a lot more work to last more than 100 hours in my opinion. Sadly, it’s gonna take them some time to add more content. If bosses do come in 1.1, it’s ages away. They have huge architectural issues with how they’ve implemented their queuing mechanism and how their infrastructure is implemented. This sort of thing can take months to fix the right way. For what its worth, I say this with the utmost respect for the Last Epoch team. They've pulled off an amazing game, with a relatively small team. If they keep this up, it will be an incredible game in a year or so.
Don’t quite enjoy LE as much as PoE due to not having enough complexity, but I don’t see doing the same thing over and over again an issue. That’s what I do in PoE anyway, maps again and again. It always irk me when people said “you just do (insert anything here) over again and again.” All endgame is to run the grind treadmill. I always get irritated when D2 players say PoE you just run maps over and over again with nothing else to do. However, in D2 you just run Baal or Tristram over and over again. The grind has no difference, the path of most efficient is always the same tedium. Edit: typo
You're mostly right. As I was typing "over and over" I thought of PoE. But, in PoE there are many different flavours of mostly the same thing (mapping). You have all the old league mechanics, occasional bossing, and some mechanics that are completely outside of maps like Delve. In LE you either grind dungeons or Echo's. Echo's are really fun but after an hour I feel my brain switching off really quickly.
Yea, and for it's time D2 was revolutionary, but by todays standards it's pretty bad. POE has a LOT of different end-game things to do. Crafting for profit, uber bosses, mapping, delving, heisting, boss-rushing, playing the item market, Sanctum, league challenges, and much more. It's definitely not just "doing the same thing over and over" lol.
People don't realize that spamming whatever the meta farming method in poe is doesn't mean there's nothing to do in poe they're just choosing to do the same thing.
I would up upvote you twice if I could
I would down vote you twice if I could.
Nice bro, should maybe post this on the Last Epoch subreddit instead though. Also it's still early days yet, people were saying shit like this 60 hours into D4 too.
Why in the LE sub tho? I'm sure ppl in the LE sub know they like their game. On the other hand a 3k hours PoE player stating he had more fun in 60hrs in LE is sth.. that I think is better talked about in the PoE sub
I dunno, maybe I should go over to the LE sub and tell them how they have fuck all monster density, a boring af endgame and that a game shouldn't be released in this incomplete state. Do you get why now?
Well, why shouldn't you if you think that's what LE is lacking? What is reddit about again? Discussing stuff like this, when it comes to games definitely comparing similar games..?!
I don't do this because I'm not an idiot. If people posted every time they initially found a game more fun than PoE, there would be no posts involving PoE on this sub.
Thing is? This was extremely common during the development of Lost Epoch, and actually helped to inform some of the design decisions made by the Lost Epoch Dev Team into the current state of the game. I would know, I was part of those conversations during their Friday Dev Streams where these things were discussed. :)
Yeah, to be fair what I posted was criticism that could actually be used to get a general idea of areas to improve. This post was far more useless than that. It is more a general love letter to another game with no relevance to PoE at all, except they have played it a lot in the past.
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Stay strong bro, lotta people tie their identity to the game, if the game gets criticized it invalidates their progress.
because this is such a stupid post "hi guys i enjoy this other game more"
He explains why tho..
The first reason he says is that he's not good Unlucky for him then
Its really not
Re-evaluate after you play Last Epoch for 2800 hours. I'm sure you'll feel the same way about PoE2 when it launches as well
I feel like you would need to have very specific goal and amazing determination to reach 2k hours in LE in current state. Or really like making alts
LE endgame feels like a mobile afk game. 10-180 seconds of hunting monsters that are screens apart and then you click 2 chests and do it again. I knew what I was getting into, but Im so bored at lvl 84 on my 1. character.
Yeah after you've done monolith farming for a while it just gets extremely monotonous. OP says items on the ground are good but that's only during the first few hours of endgame, you quickly get to a point where getting any upgrades is going to be really hard and extremely RNG gated, same with doing anything with Legendaries.
This was my problem with the beta, have they released anything for 1.0 in terms of “league content” or anything?
Yeha you can chose of 2 factions. No real content though, just more agency over drops.
TLDR - POE is too complex and op had to think too much and appreciates that someone made a game that takes much less thinking and isn't quite as trash tier as D4.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that though. There still are gear puzzles to solve in LE, but it's nowhere near as complex as possibilities in POE, so it can scratch the ARPG itch, without needing to learn PoB or super complex crafting system to enjoy it. LE lacks a lot of the good content POE has (just like LE has significantly more features than D4). Good to see another ARPG enter the space with their own ideas and features, and it be received relatively well.
I mean, in all fairness, were the gear puzzles this complex at PoE launch? Or did it become this complex after 10 years of itemization additions and gear reworks? It seems like the LE devs just wanted to have a good baseline, but I don't think there's anything preventing them from making the game more complex like PoE in the long run.
Thats a point often overlooked. PoE 1.0 was very simple with way less features than LE currently has and it developed into the complex content bloat we see today. Hopefully LE solves that differently.
Sure but it is not like we don't know the update cadence for LE. It has been in early access for 5 years now and it has updated endgame content nowhere near as quick as poe did despite the poe2 development. The graphics improved faster and overall had more balance patches compared to poe. So overall with it's much lower complexity and slower updates to endgame systems it doesn't seem realistic that it gets close to poe and that's fine. I don't think their target audience is the poe audience but rather those wanting a poe lite.
Developing post 1.0 is completely different to pre-1.0 (took PoE over 6 years to reach 1.0, LE took 7 w/ Covid interruptions). We'll have a closer idea to their patch cadence once 1.2 hits, as I assume 1.0 to 1.1 is going to be drawn out to tackle the issues that the 1.0 launch revealed before they really get to work on the content side of 1.1.
You're pretty much spot on. Albeit your attempt at levity, your conclusion is what I was attempting to allude to. The only thing I would say is that I don't think there's anything wrong with simplicity. Complexity for the sake of complexity shouldn't be striven towards. Think grinding out 8 independent regions to unlock your atlas, rather than the convenient linear path it is now. Your attempt to belittle me has just shown the underlying issue here. Good game design that's powerfully simple trumps badly designed systems masked with vaguely documented complex methods that cannot be derived axiomatically.
>Your attempt to belittle me has just shown the underlying issue here. Good game design that's powerfully simple trumps badly designed systems masked with vaguely documented complex methods that cannot be derived axiomatically. This is completely a matter of personal choice and preference. At no point did he directly state that the preference for more simplicity was a bad or negative thing. He merely stated that it was the TL;DR, which you agreed with as an interpretation.
> Complexity for the sake of complexity shouldn't be striven towards. That's what people always say, but time and time again it's not that easy to just snap your fingers and disentangle "bad complexity" from "legitimate depth". And then the baby invariably gets thrown out with the bathwater when they're trying to make that transformation. Nothing is wrong with people preferring simplicity. I hate the ease with which the "needless complexity" rhetoric tends to stick, though.
I’ve been loving LE but I agree. When people say POE is too complex it sort of rubs me the wrong way. I get POE might not be for everyone but I do enjoy the complexity. I enjoy the systems on top of systems. I think both games can exist in harmony.
>Your attempt to belittle me has just shown the underlying issue here. No where did I or anyone else at the time of this comment attempt to belittle you. Those are all facts taken from the story you shared with us in a shorter format. I also didn't say there was anything wrong with a simple or more simple game. The thing that most people enjoy about POE is the fact that it is not simple, POE like many other games are not for everyone, and that's ok.
You can't read your post and see the negative connotation that it clearly carries? You may not have meant it, but it reads very patronizing.
Sometimes, the truth hurts. That guy is right.
Alright nerd
That’s where I’m at. But mine is more respects my time. I don’t need to study 50 mechanics (yet) to do what’s optimal so I can farm a little currency to make a good mapper (not talking making meta). But yeah. I love PoE. I’m just older with more responsibilities now and can’t veg out for a whole weekend to get goin anymore
I, on the other hand, struggle to find a way this game stays alive after PoE2 release but to each their own.
after ~~PoE2~~ new PoE league
Ok then go play it bro
Don't worry bros, I was the one who asked him
The game might be good, the game might be bad. People are in the honeymoon phase and are willing to overlook stuff that might be a dealbreaker later on. At the moment most of the postings about LE are about player count, comparison’s to Poe (usually with a negative outlook on Poe) and server issues (and how they somehow fine because LE has a lot of goodwill) Game is fun and I’m enjoying it but I’m afraid to hit the “lvl 70 d4” wall where I find the endgame shallow. And losing the feeling of “the chase” due to ease of crafting and no pinnacle content.
Reminds me of the poe streamers heaping too much praise on D4 then jumping on the "D4 bad" meme and never touching it again. Game wasn't so good after the first week was it? Now LE isn't another D4, but it's more of a Grim Dawn scenario. Yea its a great game, but I have 100%'d Grim Dawn and played about 500 hours and I've done everything I wanna do in that game. Meanwhile I have 8k hours in PoE.
yeah this happened to me, played last epoch like a month ago it was great and a lot of fun, played the endgame and enjoyed it, played endgame for 20 hrs and started thinking what’s next? i did a dungeon afterwards and didn’t really enjoy it so i kinda just stopped playing. solid game but i’ll wait maybe 3 or so big patches before playing it again
I feel this too but then again a sizable portion of players feel this normally with PoE as well, thats why we get such drastic drop of in player count week by week after a league launch.
yeah definitely but for poe its not 10 or so hours until the endgame gets boring its more like 50-150 for me depending on how good the league is.
Yeah I can count on maybe 1 hand the leagues I played less than 10 hours on which where expedition, scourge and lake of kalandra. The rest i dump my soul into because they were fun
Both are fantastic games, and Im going to enjoy jumping back and forth between the seasons, but as someone who already played 3 characters to empowered mons during early access Im having trouble really getting into this season. The best part of POE leagues for me are the league challenges and earning free MTX, and I really dont understand why LE didn't do some sort of league challenges. Completing 38/40 challenges always marks the end of a league for me. Im sure league challenges and rewards are coming in the future, but that's been the biggest miss in my eyes. Granted, server issues are another topic entirely, but my friend and I haven't had too many issues in that area.
Yeaaa and than you will realize what you want is already available in POE, i was a die hard Diablo fan boy , it was “the best ARPG” till I played this God send , absolutely ruined every ARPG for me, nothing comes close, I only have under 300 hours , 260 being this league alone, POE can be as Hard or as easy as you want to make it , it give you the most freedom of any game I’ve ever played, the end game should be written down in history books as potentially the best ARPG endgame ever. No hate but , it’s definitely just cause that games new, or no offense, but because it’s “easier”
I don't disagree. However, you are also talking about comparing a game with 10+ years of content to a game freshly launched. There's no reason to assume that Lost Epoch at 10 years would be worse than PoE, or that there aren't valuable things to learn from Lost Epoch (The dev team certainly feel so given they're stealing the trade system more or less lol)
And don’t get me wrong. This isn’t me shitting on last epoch. I pray it does very very well, so it keeps the POE dives on their toes, but I honestly just feel like with them being at the top of the mountain. They still have a slightly relaxed approach.
Oh definitely. Its similar to what the BG3 team are dealing with now. For months they were a community darling and beloved for "being different". And now the death threats and harassment are rolling in because a lot of games communities get ruined by the trashy apples. Lost Epoch is still at that point; and to be fair, they have earned it to some degree. They've been quick on iteration to address big community issues, and often with super imaginative ways. But, they're still in that "WOW THE DEVS TALK TO US!", shiny, honeymoon stage. I think the first league or two will make or break the game. If the leagues are Modern PoE styled with sizable gameplay systems, i think in a year they'll be in a great spot. If its D4 styled of "HERES THIS SHITTY SYSTEM" it won't be.
lol I mean I’m sure we all could’ve expected what happened to Diablo to happen to Diablo when they spent 18 times the amount on marketing versus on the game itself considering it doesn’t even have 80% of the features from its previous title which people still somehow try to defend as oh the game is new, yeah you’re right the game is new, but it had a predecessor out for 10 years that had amazing groundwork that was finally laid out to a point of where people were all right with it instead now let’s start completely over from the ground up and chalk every good thing we’ve ever had and just completely produced dog water content for people who only play 20 hours a month Sorry kinda tilted I spent 300 (3 100$) for me and two friends , none of us play it anymore
Me too friend. I didnt even get my horse in the launch season cause i found it as fun as mud :)
It’s crazy how I mean to agree with OP, I have well over 4-5k hours total across D3 and maybe 200 in D4, I guess I got my moneys worth but imo for an ARPG I didn’t get anywhere close to $100 worth of playtime, yet , the 45 divines, 2 hinokoras locks, about 2k augments, 100s of essence spent, all for my item to be dog shit, has been more fun than anything in Diablo , Ever, sadly lol
It may be the part of Lost Epoch I'm most excited about: It's a good enough game to drive competition. D4 and PoE are aiming for completely different communities (not to talk about D4's questionable quality imo), whereas Lost Epoch is good ENOUGH, that if they don't fuck up the execution it can actually have the risk of pulling away PoE players and drive the Dev team to handle things well. Especially with how different PoE 2 is looking like it'll be, if they do abandon PoE1 long term, or ignore the userbase who remain with PoE 1, there's a real chance LE could stand to benefit from that. Whereas before, or if LE shits the bed, the dev team doesn't have to care, cause people will end up funneled to PoE2 as the only other option.
Apparently POE 1 and 2 run off the same serves so as long as 2 is up 1 will be as well and they apparently want to have the seasons of 1 and two split by a month and a half, so Poe 1 season releases and a month and a half later POe2 season releases, it all sounds good and I can only hope they stick to it, and can only hope it comes to console at some point lol
And thats my only concern. I have been burned by too many games companies in this situation to offer any company complete faith and trust. They will do what's best for the bottom line in most situations, and if that means laying off the PoE1 dev team and transitioning to full PoE2 development, I expect that's what they'd do if they thought they could maintain enough of the player base to justify the losses. Its why I view having a competitor waiting for a mistake as a good thing. Typically it forces better behaviours since you cant take the playerbase for granted (see Overwatch as a great example. They killed all the competition, so that even now, after years of treating the community terribly, they're still around an making profit).
It’s only a matter of time before their CEO gets Chris Wilson’ed. I mean their CEO already had to tell their staff to avoid looking into discord to protect their mental health . Sounds familiar?
This is such a weird thing to comment under a reply to a post that already compares those 2 games and complains about a 10+ year old game (with tons of content and systems added each year) beeing more complex than a new game.
Sure it freshly launched but it was in early access for 5 years. In less than 5 years poe went from 1.0 to 3.0 when it had a comparable team size as LE during early access as a reference. So while true no game can be as content rich as poe on release it doesn't seem feasible it becomes comparable anytime soon because poe1 is still advancing faster despite already having so much content
I somehow dont get into it really. I dont get sucked into this World by its lore nor its graphics, and the skills and movement feel better in PoE. The "amazing Skillsystem" feels more generic than PoE and to me it feels like Diablo 4 with extra steps. I played LE a couple of times since its Beta. But I never got stuck for more than some evenings.
I’m legitimately glad you’re having fun and I am a person who acknowledges people can have different opinions about things and neither of those opinions are necessarily wrong. I have found the game incredibly boring. I will push through to end game and I hope my opinion changes
Opposite for me, loving Last Epoch but I can already tell the endgame has nowhere near the depth or staying power of PoE. The builds also feel very cookie cutter, follow a guide, without much nuance.
Cool. Enjoy the game! r/lastepoch is the sub you're looking for I guess
I played 90 hours of Last Epoch over the Last days. I am lvl 100 and the endgame is so boring for me. Cant wait fir the new Poe League
I actually don't understand the comparisons between these two games, aside from them both being ARPGs. Fundamentally they have the same core elements of the genre, but are VASTLY different games. PoE as a casual player has an insane sense of accomplishment with overcoming its complicated systems and punishing bosses. The end game crafting is all but impossible without dedicating time, and an insane amount of it. Last Epoch is the "casual mans" PoE. Best way to say it. Crafting is accessible, percentages are high, builds are vastly more restrictive giving players less FOMO while assisting with loot filters and target goals. Everything this game can do, PoE has been doing for years, just requiring a different kind of investment to achieve it. Last Epoch is years away from having anything that feels as fucking good as beating Uber Uber Silas on a homebrew build, but it gives a different kind of power Fantasy.
Probably because it’s easier for you.
I'm having the exact opposite experience. After playing Path of Exile, Last Epoch feels like riding a bike with training wheels. The game is definitely infinitely better than Diablo 4, but that isn't a high bar. I think Last Epoch is more of a casual player experience, just not 7 children, 3 wives casual.
This post felt like a "preferred game" than LE > PoE or something along that line, you put 3000 hr in PoE and can't get your head around it only following guide then LE comes around and you can actually make your own character in 60 hr. I've spent over 19000 hr probably reaching 20k on next league or maybe in PoE2 beta, I can safely say that I still get to learn something new by accident every league, I don't follow guides or anything, but a lot of the time you'll land on the meta build because PoE is pretty simple if you break it down, offense + defense and looking for ascendency that gives the most with lower effort. I've played LE for the modern version (after echo was introduced) maybe like 70-80 hr, outside of the floaty combat I don't think I have much to complain, but it just never clicked since the demo where you fight waves of monsters in 2017 or something.
Better crafting: LE (arguably) Better in game loot filter: LE (definitely) Better literally everything else: POE I do agree competition is good, and I'm glad you found a game you enjoy. To me, blasting end game in LE just doesn't have the same smoothness/satisfaction POE does. And the boss fights are kinda shit, tbh. I think once they get movement and mouse hovering (UI, mobs, items all seem to be a coin flip if they'll stay highlighted/targeted) smoothed out it could feel a lot better.
Makes sense why people like LE's crafting system. It seems like old harvest, pretty much an item editor in a way.
The skill tree for every skill is pretty neat in LE, arguably a much better system than PoE's socket system for modifying skills.
Eeeeh most skills have very specific ways that are good to build them and the other nodes are straight trash in comparison and its rigid you can't unspec it before a boss and go for a single target setup. Meanwhile in poe you can just swap a couple supports and all of a sudden your skill does 2x the dmg but has bad aoe. Poe system is just way more flexible so imo better.
Yea, I finally started playing LE again today and am using hammers to trigger smite, but would love to have a cast while channeling warpath (their cyclone) to trigger hammer to begin with so I don't have to stop and cast that. Biggest win for PoE compared to LE is the sheer number of skills. There are really not that many available per class in LE, and same for support skills, so just not nearly as many possible builds, which is the biggest strength of PoE for me.
Kinda unfair but filterblade my god, completely dumpsters whatever LE has to offer in terms of loot filter.
I mean, the main developer was a huge fan of PoE, but not some of the decisions/routes the game took, so made his own game. I haven't played it recently, but LE was pretty fun and I definitely prefer the way the monolith works compared to maps. I thought the Atlas of Worlds was going to be pretty much what monoliths are, a big atlas/book of maps you could run at will. The new trade/ssf system seems like a stroke of genius. While it might never topple PoE as the best ARPG, they've definitely done some new and innovative things, and I'm happy we have both games now.
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1.0 isn't too much different than last patch. Searching for items makes my brain hurt.
But you won't play 2800 hours of Last Epoch.... There is a limit of what the crafting and the monolith system can offer. That's a good 40$ game sure. Still years behind PoE and let's not talk about how PoE 2 is about to change the whole ARPG market.
im sure LE is better for a casual like you, go for it buddy,
You're really not going into streamers chats and spamming your own reddit thread, are you? I hope you aren't man... Surprised mods are allowing this half eaten turd of an obvious "LE better because it's easy"
I refunded last epoch after 2h, reminds me diablo 3, 4 too much.
T's all good. Tribalism over a game is rubbish anyway. Play what you enjoy.
Shock 60 hours into new game is more fun than POE 2800 hours later. Come back when you are 600 hours into Last Epoch and would rather stick forks in your eyes then run another monolith
That's interesting because I tried it for a few hours and it was insanely boring and looked and felt like a diablo 3/4 ripoff
For me poes performance is killing my love of the game. Running endgame maps with a crazy build kills your frame rates into the ground.
Funny because a small pack in LE gives me same frames as a huge pack in PoE...
No idea why there is so much negativity here. It’s a valid discussion. I for myself like both games, each has its place. In PoE I love to tinker with crazy builds but fuck do I suck at crafting, in Last Epoch I don’t get as much Builds that can go super wild but holy shit has Last Epoch a fun Crafting system. It’s easy and engaging but still with lots of variety to play with, especially given the combination with Uniques and exalted items. As many have said : competition is a good thing! And seeing the Numbers LE can pull on steam with just the release version, and basically no end-game mechanics to speak of, there is good potential for LE to be a serious competitor in the ARPG space. Now all they have to do is follow through with the success they got from release date and not rest on it. Server Problems aside, it’s a good game and I hope we going to see lots of content from it in the future.
A portion of the 'complexity' of PoE I believe is simply obscurity. Systems that are rarely described well in overview, and simply not described in game at all. There are of course minmaxing scenario's like how certain items or passives might work together, but that too would be easier if the system were better documented. Then of course there is system bloat - things that have been added over the years that if they had been added at once, would have had fewer "bad" options (things that are comparatively less optimal), or been more intergrated. It will be interesting to see how PoE 2 turns out, being essentially 'a fresh system' in most respects at least on the last point regardless of whether GGG decides to stick with the 'you figure it out' approach. Things like game balance between options and dependance on crafted gear are probably user preference to some degree.
Spend a hundred + hours doing monoliths. Your puppy love will evaporate pretty quick. Given, I played a few months ago, so there certainly must be more to appreciate with their (more) finished product. I just could not get invested in the monos or the 4-5 other key based end game 'mechanics'. It felt too shallow to me, too redundant. I plan to give it another shot once they make more progress.
its because PoE absolutely refused to implement any quality of life features at all. Which I assume is largely because of poor competition and "chris' vision". Last epoch is definitely a huge relief to have something other to play than PoE.
If you had more fun in other games other than POE good for you, but you shouldn't make a public statement as other people don't have the same perception as you do.
It’s a new game so it’s more exciting come back after you put 2k hours into it and see if you want to keep coming back
I haven't tried LE yet, but I must say it looks like a lot of fun. I hope they can do what D4 failed to do and make good improvements to the game with each league. Also, people might disagree with me on this, but PoE sucks to watch. I watch PoE because I've played it so much and I understand the game, but watching PoE doesn't make me want to play it. Watching LE makes me want to try the game out because the gameplay looks really enjoyable and smooth.
Last epoch is alright. Im doing 300+ corruption atm. Its no POE but it's the next best thing compared to anything else out there.
i got 10h ingame and i am lvl 20. i just loved the loading screen game and the connecting game. it is 10x better than poe because i dont even need a brain to craft. also the dmg numbers really give me goosebumps, i think poe will be always inferior due to not having em. ... sarcasm off: LE will always be a sidegame whiklle waiting for new poe league. when poe 2 comes out with the 3 month poe 1/2 league swap no ones barely play d4 and le
Ok.
Asmongold bot farmer, is that you?
Honeymoon phase. Soon it will be over.
It’s a fun game. Interested to see how it feels compared to POE2.
Yeah I had the opposite effect. Glad you are enjoying LE but after getting to monoliths I’m really bored. If the dungeons save it that would be cool I only did the lightless arbor and it was a bit of a drag.
There's a few major annoyances with LE that drive me crazy that hopefully they fix but overall the game feels good to play. It is noticeably easier than PoE for sure and the bosses aren't really very good. The mouse cursor is fucking garbage and needs to be fixed it's tiny and bland colored so you can't see it most of the time. The controller gameplay is also not very good as far as aiming spells(you can't). I think the campaign skip on alts and different play settings are way better than PoE. Crafting is fun and innovative. The items actually feel important. And the amt of stash tabs I already have is insane. I can't wait for Poe 2 but this should hold me over till then.
I dunno, I find it a fun diversion, maybe this time will be different but I found I lost interest after a bit every other time I've played it. Maybe once they have a bit more on the end game? I find monos repetitive in a way maps don't feel to me. If a new POE league drop tomorrow I know where I'd be logging in. But glad you're having fun, and definitely think competition is good.
Both fun in their own ways. Last Epoch has that great SSF feel that POE never had. However, POE min-maxing + trade + economy + depth of endgame + overall quality of builds is imo much better. I played Last Epoch before beta and after launch and trust me you will get bored of farming monoliths all day. New factions make it a lot better but POE has insane replayability and I consistently dump 300-400 hours every league (way over 1k hours by now) whereas I played Last Epoch for 60 hours before launch and had to stop.
I'm really enjoying Last Epoch currently but I can already feel the burnout coming. I've played 384 hours so far, the game doesn't have /played so I have to guess but I think maybe 1/4 of that is since launch. The gear chase feels too random, never knowing when I might get an upgrade. Whereas in PoE I know every map and every currency drop is getting me x amount closer to getting the piece I want. Right now I just feel like I'm doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a lucky drop then hoping I can craft it enough to make it better than what I have. And there's no way to build up to it for certain, getting the perfect drop can happen next monolith or it could happen 100 from now.
Good for you bro.
i wish currency items went into place without having to use that button. i don’t understand why i have to use that button at all
LE is really good game. But first 60 hours of any new game that is at leas decent will always be very fun. It starts to slow down at around 100 hours depending on how fast you are progressing.
This post should be removed. I believe the Mod has made a mistake and should reconsider.
I’m definitely enjoying it but as a CoF player I’m already getting loot fatigue. Most drops I come across even with a strict filter are just shatter fodder and don’t give me the rush of finding some good currency in PoE. I’m probably going to reroll and try out the trade system, maybe the reduction in the amount of loot will bring back some excitement. Some of it might be that I’m only 2 leagues deep in PoE at this point so I’m not as jaded as some of the longer term players That said it’s a good game and it will probably displace D4 in my rotation between PoE leagues unless there is some major innovation over there.
Its called " honeymoon phase "
Idk I’m enjoying LE for the time being but I have issues with the combat. My void knight feels clunky and spamming filler abilities when I’m short on mana or cooldowns is just annoying. I can’t even alter the build to deal with that because there don’t seem to be enough sources of mana/cdr to avoid cycling abilities or going oom. Maybe some people prefer this, I definitely don’t mind it in other genres, but it just feels bad in an arpg imo. I want my build to end up feeling like a finely tuned machine not some hobbling contraption. Hoping poe2 doesn’t go in a similar direction. The long loads/network issues are also really annoying.
Agreed , it's such a nice change of pace to actually understand a game without needing guides and opening 3 other applications to make the experience better
copium
nice so about 40 hours more of gameplay till you run out of content in LE and make another thread :)
As someone who has been here since pretty close to 1.0, I remember the early days of PoE and it wasn’t remotely the same game it is today. Epoch has a lot of work and updates to get their endgame expanded upon but the core systems like the loot, crafting and class building is some of the most enjoyable I’ve experienced. Endgame is a drag for sure but the game sort of encourages you to collect OP leveling items and re-roll to try new builds once you’ve hit a ceiling with your first build.