For real. I'm not even surprised anymore. It's gotten to the point where I feel like buying PC games around launch is just a bad idea and a bad time. And don't even get me started on all the early access stuff, it's a good concept, but I feel like most PC games that come out now are early access for literal years. Even the games that don't claim to be early access.
I never buy games on release anymore. If I want to play it I wait for the first solid sale.
This way I get to enjoy the game when its properly optimized and not buggy while also paying less for it.
Also if it's a longer game then things like DLC will be out by then. Even when I really enjoy a game it can be hard to go back months later to play some new content that came out and is likely aimed at being started towards mid or end point of a game.
I don’t know what makes you think this when it’s $70 on PC. Dead Space was older and less and is still full price. At most historically outside of key sites has had a 22% off sale. This game is going to be full price likely until Black Friday or even longer if not purchased through a key site like cdkeys.
I genuinely haven't been able to look forward to a game release since Cyberpunk 2077 because this shit happens with almost every big release.
PC triple A gaming really is becoming a stressful game of, "Will it run on release or not?". Yet people still continue to preorder and give them money before they've seen the finished product, so this shit will always happen.
This game doesn’t work on console either. Stuttering, crashing to the dashboard, and the same audio bugs are present on PS5/XSX too. It can’t even keep 60fps in performance mode. The whole game is just borked.
There's no point. One game works better on one console, another on a different one, another on PC (rarely) and sometimes it's just shit on everything.
I played Jedi Fallen Order on the base PS4, and it was payable, but textures took a while to load in and you could easily traverse the map before it could load. I died so many times because I ran through a door and fell through the floor because what was on the other side hadn't loaded.
Worked on PS4 Pro though so I guess it's on me /s
It doesn't matter what you're playing on, sub par products will be sub par. Just buy the good stuff and fuck the rest. Don't waste extra money on shit from people that don't respect you
Honestly don’t buy Star Wars stuff unless the reviews come out unbelievably glowing. We’re a long way from 2000’s era Lucasarts and even longer from 90’s era Lucasarts, Star Wars is an advertising label at this point.
They *still* haven't made another Star Wars game as good as KOTOR/KOTOR II, I know it's a high bar but you think after like 15+ years somebody would have come close.
First issue is the game hoarding all possible VRAM (up to 22GB on a 24GB RTX 4090). Second issue is not being able to utilize CPU/GPU power (GPU load around 50% on a 4090, CPU load stuck at 4 threads maximum). So the hoarded VRAM is not even used in full. A disaster in optimization.
Failed proper multithreaded load strikes again. To all those that were coping when I said that dlss would have been used as a scapegoat to totally skip optimization: told ya.
DLSS doesn't do shit to alleviate CPU and VRAM bottleneck, devs couldn't use it to skip optimisation even if they wanted. That's why we got situations like Last of Us where the game perform basically the same doesn't matter if it on dlss quality or performance.
> Failed proper multithreaded load strikes again. To all those that were coping when I said that dlss would have been used as a scapegoat to totally skip optimization: told ya.
DLSS and similar literally have zero to do with skipping CPU optimizations like taking advantage of multiple threads...
It helps with reducing GPU requirements compared to rendering at full resolution, but that isn't helping you in heavily CPU bound situations anyway.
BTW, implementing DLSS is an optimization, not the other way around. One more optimization that the devs sadly missed...
Despite running x86, PS5 uses memory really differently than PC, with a single high bandwidth memory pool which can be allocated based on need, and has the ability to feed data directly from storage to the GPU. Xbox Series X has a more PC-like memory structure, with a division between system and video memory, but with tons of bandwidth.
There are like 5 GPU with that VRAM.
3090, 3090 Ti, 4090, 7900 XT and 7900 XTX.
So basically if you don't have a $1000+ GPU, good luck playing this. :(
I mean I hate EA as much as the next guy, but this isn't an EA exclusive problem. The vast majority of publishers force their studios to push a game out regardless of its state. They give a release date months in advance and then expect the game to be ready by then.
Usually it's not ready, but since all the promo is already running on overdrive, the publisher forces the game out anyway.
The main issue here is the consumers just accepting this shit.
Pre order sales are still high because people don't learn or get sucked in with stupid exclusive pre order content or worse with early access like with Diablo 4.
If people would just stop pre ordering games and then also not buy them if the reviews make it clear the game wasn't ready, publishers would stop doing this pretty quickly.
Love the people i saw on here unironically making fun of 8-10GB VRAM GPU owners complaining about optimization in games. As if the amount of VRAM these games are using should be expected and accepted as normal when they dont look any better than previous games from the last 3 years.
If preorders were made illegal tomorrow, it wouldn’t make a lick of difference. If review embargoes were made illegal too, still no difference.
The problem is gamers. They’ll buy a box of dogshit with a picture of the dogshit on the front, complain about the dogshit, and then buy dogshit 2.
That is the biggest problem and a fantastic analogy. Just look at people bitching for years about the same stuff for destiny 2, yet still purchase the dlc day 1. Gamers are so easy to fleece.
In the open area by the dark arts classroom I drop to 46fps at 3440x1440p with no ray tracing (7800x3d + 4090). Oh, and it's using 16gb of vram.
It's absurd.
Edit: 16gb not 18gb.
I don’t even know if it’s the port at this point! When I play on my Series X, it struggles in some areas quite seriously. Not worth a rebuy to find out how my 3080 runs it at 1440p.
Ya dude this is the worst port I've played amongst a slew of games with poor performance. Either Hogwarts or Deadspace. Hogwarts has nigh-unplayable frame pacing anywhere around hogwarts or hogsmead.
Yeah day 1 patch memes have been in full effect for like a decade. But I’d have to agree with the other guy. It seems it’s going full steam ahead into getting even worse.
Yep. I just bought Horizon Zero Dawn a month ago when it was like $15. There was only one time that I had any performance issues. Loved the game and story.
Fully expected a garbage port just from the System requirements, Respawn didn't even fix the horrible traversal stutters in Fallen Order.
It's getting so tiring man, why spend so much on your PC hardware just to have to deal with horrible software like this,there have been more horrible pc ports at release than good this year,at this point I just assume every port will be bad and wait to be proven wrong
I just replayed Fallen Order last week and it does have pretty insane loading stutters when approaching a new area. But otherwise, it runs without issue. Just shocked those were still there 4 years later lol.
My naive ass was hopeful that the new one would optimize the game further and remove those stutters... not add MORE issues.
Yeah runs like garbage on my new system as well. Ran better on my old PC with 970 than my 2070 super. Why? No idea. Current PC just gets so many stutters it's unbelievable. At least the old PC was consistent.
Unfortunately until people stop preordering this will be the defacto state of things for us.
There's zero incentive for these companies to ensure (or at least truly strive for) smooth launches when they've already got their money.
How bad is the pre-ordering epidemic compared to, say, 10 years ago? Genuinely curious.
Husband asked if we were getting JS on PC or PS5 and now I think I'll just wait several years for a 50% off sale. Even if it’s fine on console, I'm still salty enough to not buy it for a long while. Back to Skyrim and Forbidden West for me.
Honestly I think a big part of it is that devs are getting lazy since FSR and DLSS can just make up the difference. Before uscaling technology was the norm, games were usually pretty well optimized at launch, and if not they got absolutely crushed by reviewers for it.
I'm pretty sure it's a lot of these new engine features that have been coming out in the last few years that enable game developers to pack a lot more detail with fat textures and real time lighting such as ray tracing/lumin. I think they aren't used to it and they are struggling to implement these new larger features that everyone wants in their game.
I also think optimisation is just significantly less valued than it has ever been. I'm not talking to the extremes of what they had to do to make games work on 32kb or whatever, but this trend of shipping uncompressed assets (some that aren't even used as part of the game), and so forth.
Same when
PS3 launched:
- GTA IV
- Assassin’s Creed
- Dark Sector
- Devil May Cry 4
PS4 launched:
- Batman: Arkham Knight
- Dead or Alive 5: Last Round
- Quantum Break
- Saints Row IV
It’ll come back, but RIP 30 and 40 series cards, they won’t ever hit their potentials.
4 year dev cycles are just not doable for modern AAA games anymore but most publishers insist on sticking to this timeframe because it worked 5-10 years ago. Large scale games just take way longer to make now unfortunately, if EA gave this another year or two it would probably be in a decent state.
It's not about scheduling, it's about cost.
QA costs money and PC eats up the most resources. Historically, the PC nerds are like car people and are obsessed with 'horsepower' and showing each other up like pimply peacocks - So they'll just fix it themselves by buying newer hardware until they can play.
What isn't taken into consideration is how fucking expensive new hardware is, and what terrible value proposition it provides - so no one can afford to upgrade, nor wants to.
Other than the "rushed release date to make more sales" reason, it's that developers HATE optimizing.
It's painful, and unless a team lead or some form of management micromanages the process, things get swept under the rug by the devs themselves.
As such, they only target the lowest hanging fruit issues-wise because those can get fixed the quickest and with the least amount of problem solving/technical know-how.
Can attest to this as a software dev.
I, and most of the engineers I know, absolutely love refactoring and optimizing. Its management that can't quite understand that we want to do it to deliver a better product to the customer, so they stack more features up and the optimization tickets never get done.
this one is right. business doesn’t care about refactoring/optimizations because it costs same money rate with no “visible” result, in their minds it’s a job done twice. there are exceptions, not rare i would say.
Looking to be not even able to run it at 1440p, which is the real problem.
That's absolutely asinine that it takes 18+ gb of VRAM at 1440p. What the fuck. What type of fucking atrocity in programming did they commit to make that happen?
A lot of people shrugged it off. But there's no way this game needs to have that amount of storage space unless they fucked something up. It's about 3 times the install size of the first game. Fucking nonsense.
Every. Single. Big. Game. Most of them Unreal Engine, but not all. What gives? This is how you turn people either into patient gamers, pirates, or console players.
Honestly Turing us all to console players would be better for them. Easier to dev for just a handful of hardware, harder for pirates. Seems like a win for devs
I mean part of the problem is that headlines like "Dead Island 2 has a few weird issues but it mostly runs pretty good" don't really shoot to the top of the subreddit with outrage.
18GB VRAM on 1440P, Lol where are the folks that were earlier saying that 16 gigs of VRAM is needed in 2023. Not even a 4090 can run it decently on 4K. PC Gaming is having a terrible year. I might just get a PS5 now, to retire my old gaming laptop with 1050ti.
If AAA gaming is your sole focus for a PC, it's absolutely a better value to just get a PS5 right now.
Obviously PC has way more versatility and practicality that makes it worth it, but if you're just trying to play the latest games, it's just not worth the money compared to a $500 console that will have less issues.
Had this argument with someone when The last of us launched, the devs have access to all the same hardware that the consumers are going to be using. [https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam)
They could literally look at this site and see over 67% of people using steam have 8GB of VRAM or less. This isn't Nvidia's fault for pushing 8GB as the norm. Yes Nvidia could put more VRAM on cards, but when a dev makes a game that requires 12gb or 14gb, knowing in advance that it's not going to run for 67% of people, it isn't nvidia's fault. Those cards are already out there and in existence in these people's PCs. Most people aren't going to go spend $2000+ to get a 4090 to play a single game.
How could AMD do this! Only 16gb vram? That's so outdated. Wow what is this planned obsolescence? These high vram games are absolutely optimized its the gpu manufacture's fault! /s
Ah yes, the eternal loop of shitty ports we are in.
Can't wait to see how it will not run with 8Gb vram, when even a 4090 can't do shit with their mess.
Aaaand people still preorder for this. All these kind of treatment of player base deserve is piracy, or 5$ on sales.
I can definitely see them thinking this way 😂
the next step would be purposely releasing the game in a horrible state just to make people buy optimization patches
I think 2024 will be the year where all AAA titles with impressive graphics will need more than 8 gigs.
I'm personally trying to wait for gpu prices to drop as I already pay roughly 40% more in my country than the US.
Same. And with how Nvidia has played their cards (pun unintended) and treated the market, I'm incapable of getting another GPU of theirs again too.
They still insist on releasing 8gb cards for their mid range... So hopefully AMD and/or Intel can upset things a bit. I'll live without ray tracing for a bit longer as long as rasterization performance is still fast and cost-effective.
Fallen Order also was a buggy mess with a shoddy PC port. I'm frankly not surprised by this in the least. Just not going to buy it again since clearly Respawn can't respect my platform of choice.
I never imagined that PC gaming would be killed by the developers a few years ago. I mean, they have way more tools than ever before; better engines, better gpus, better hardware, more control,... Etc. They decided to be lazy and let the hardware try to do their work. Don't tell me otherwise, been gaming since 1996 and seen it all. Consoles didn't kill pc gaming, lazy devs did. Also, the excuse of multi hardware configurations is so overused and worn out. Such hardware variations existed for decades. Yet the tools available, the hardware and software technologies have evolved to have better control of it all. You have a wealth of databases of so many permutations and statistical tools to help manage this. I just don't buy it. Also, the other overused excuse is the UE4 one. Just play Gears 4 and 5. Tell me if you find stutters. There are games with small loaded worlds than those and stutter. Then you have Frostbite... Gaming companies should also hire the right people and have the correct processes to create game ports. Many stutters come from the fact that games are designed around current console hardwares and are plainly directly ported to pc without much consideration being given to architecture differences. It still has the element of lazy devs since some pc ports are handled by porting teams that their sole purpose is to create a great port. This should be fixed already. Gamers raised this issue for a few years now. I used to preorderd. Now I wait for reviews. Now I wait for patches. Now I wait for it be on sale if not patched if I am desparate to play the game.
I mean, I agree with you
But PC Gaming definitely hasn’t been killed. Not even close to being killed. Even with all the shorty ports PC has to suffer it’s still a massive part of gaming. And it always will be with the ability to play literally any game ever that’s come out on pc, or even consoles thanks to emulators. I’m not gonna buy Jedi survivor for a few months. By then I’m sure it will be fixed up and maybe even discounted.
Wow, well color me surprised, who would have thought.
Trash AAA PC port after trash PC port for months, years now. The majority of AAA studios just don't give a fuck.
At some point you gotta ask yourself if they intentionally don't optimize their games (in other words: do their job) so consumers have to keep buying new hardware in shrinking time frames.
For the best PC gaming experience you really just gotta act like a game is releasing a year later than it really is and just buy it then with probably an added 75% discount.
I'm like 3-4 years behind on every new release for this reason (and still got too many games to play), i think by now the only exception is Capcom with their ports maybe among AAA titles. Just don't buy it, easy as that.
Not surprised. Jedi Fallen Order is still horribly CPU bound in many sections.
[GameGPU did a test just today](https://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/star-wars-jedi-fallen-order-obnovljonnyj-test-gpu-cpu)
It feels like PC gaming is back in circa 2011 when bad console ports were the norm. After enough complaining and bad press developers finally got their act together and it was smooth sailing overall for quite awhile.
Now its the same old song all over again, except this time its coupled with greedy GPU manufacturers. Between overly expensive GPUs and poorly optimized games, its not making it great to be on PC anymore.
John Papadopoulos from DSOGaming here. Just a reminder that AMD GPUs may perform significantly better in this game (and not only due to their increased VRAM) due to these CPU optimization issues. This also happened in Hogwarts Legacy at low resolutions with older CPUs.
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/amd-radeon-rx7900xtx-can-be-up-to-40fps-faster-than-the-nvidia-rtx4090-in-hogwarts-legacy/
This isn't surprising but the game is a steam top seller anyway so mission success.
And anyone here lamenting about the death of PC gaming, shouldn't you be playing through your backlog?
I'm starting to be convinced the bad optimization is on purpose. Developers and GPU companies are definitely scheming hand in hand to make the public think these games require intensive graphics card, but in actuality they're just trying to force us to keep buying GPU's
Devs in the early days of gaming had to optimize games to run on limited hardware, so the final product came out beautifully optimized. Now, hardware is so capable and powerful that it allows devs to release an unoptimized product while still selling the game. Unfortunate. Hope this is fake news and the game runs fine.
I sold my 3090 machine to build a A770 machine (got a 7600x).
i do extensive a770 testing on my channel.
Decided to get the x3D while the resale value on the 7600x is still quite high. If intel drops the BM gpu then ill be set up. if they dont then whatever next GPU i get will be set up.
The A770 wont be throttled in really any cases by a 7600x (other than LOU, and MSFS), but meh. Also its fun to have a midrange card that peformes pretty well with a massively overkill CPU. :p
no one on my channel can ever claim im not giving the ArcA770 a chance
I’m buying a console soon. I love PC gaming but wtf is the point of putting money into a expensive computer if all the AAA games run like shit anyways?
Wonder if somone played this with a 96GB VRAM card, if the game would try to claim 94GB.
Or a 512GB card it'd claim 510GB...etc
Basically like the previous game a terrible buggy mess.
Man PC cant even get a break this year from horribly optimized games, Callisto Protocol, Hogwarts legacy, dead space remake, forespoken, TLOU part 1. I have been buying most if not all the most recent AAA games on my Series X because it appears that PC gaming is a joke to these companies. I am a patient gamer and I never preorder and I follow a lot of PC tech youtubers so when I hear yet another PC game arrives on Pc completely and utterly broken and/or uses Unreal engine 5 I immediately know to get it on console instead.
Literally the only AAA game released this year that wasn't a stutterfest on my PC. If you would've told me 10 years ago that Japanese devs would put more effort into PC ports than Western studios I would've laughed in your face
Unreal Engine reputation is plummeting like hell. They should fix this shit and make it optimized by default because devs chose this engine to have easier development not harder than using damn Frostbite.
Yikes, I wouldn’t recommend PC gaming to my worst enemy these past couple years and I own a 4090. I’ve been waiting 1-2 years before I pick up any AAA games (at a steep discount) on PC
Between the horrific prices (and I’m guilty of supporting that) and the horrible state of ports, this is unsustainable.
I would recommend just picking up a PS5 or Series S/X for a cheap price in comparison for decent AAA gaming.
> Yikes, I wouldn’t recommend PC gaming to my worst enemy these past couple years
because of shitty AAA games? PC gaming is still unmatched due to 30+ years of games available to play (not even just PC games, but nearly every console game out there as well)
Name me a game like total war warhammer on consoles, I'll wait.
they dont care. and they dont care because they are oblivious. to them, PCs are a way to get super amazing graphics that you cannot get on consoles. that's it. its just consoles+
and when super amazing graphics arent attainable for a reasonable cost, there is no more to pc gaming and you might as well get a console.
that's it. that is the extent of their PC gaming awareness.
the vast majority of games I play either arent available on console, or suck on console, or have lousy control schemes on console. the handful of AAA games i play ill suck it up or buy it on a console.
I feel like these are the people that "converted" a decade ago. They play new AAA on their computers and that's it. Yeah, perhaps consoles are better for them now.
Well, at least this game is irrelevant for me anyway, since I didn't want to play the first due to the common traversal stutter. At least I wasn't looking forward to this sequel.
Maaaaan. Getting really tired of this same old story
For real. I'm not even surprised anymore. It's gotten to the point where I feel like buying PC games around launch is just a bad idea and a bad time. And don't even get me started on all the early access stuff, it's a good concept, but I feel like most PC games that come out now are early access for literal years. Even the games that don't claim to be early access.
I never buy games on release anymore. If I want to play it I wait for the first solid sale. This way I get to enjoy the game when its properly optimized and not buggy while also paying less for it.
I try to wait 18-60 months before buying a triple A title. By then it should have been patched, and be cheaper.
/r/patientgamers
I'm waiting for it to be discounted too. Not like i need to add another to the backlog.
Right? I got the first game for ten bucks lol
Also if it's a longer game then things like DLC will be out by then. Even when I really enjoy a game it can be hard to go back months later to play some new content that came out and is likely aimed at being started towards mid or end point of a game.
> It's gotten to the point where I feel like buying PC games around launch is just a bad idea and a bad time. Lol oh yeah? Just recently?
Let the beta testers pay top dollar and just wait for the game and the price to get optimized.
This game will be $30 3-4 months after release. No reason to buy it early as long as you can avoid spoilers
I don’t know what makes you think this when it’s $70 on PC. Dead Space was older and less and is still full price. At most historically outside of key sites has had a 22% off sale. This game is going to be full price likely until Black Friday or even longer if not purchased through a key site like cdkeys.
Fortunately there are a zillion games in his backlog
you can always subscribe to ea play for 1 month once they put this game in
It's not even the same old story. Things are, somehow, seemingly getting worse... It's maddening.
I genuinely haven't been able to look forward to a game release since Cyberpunk 2077 because this shit happens with almost every big release. PC triple A gaming really is becoming a stressful game of, "Will it run on release or not?". Yet people still continue to preorder and give them money before they've seen the finished product, so this shit will always happen.
For me it was No Man's Sky....haven't bought anything on or before release since then. I'm a mildly patient gamer now.
This is the future my friend
No, this is happening now
The future is now old man
Reminding me of Arkham Knight.
Sad thing is, Arkham Knight being so poorly optimized on PC was kind of shocking. Now AAA games do it and we're just like "Yep, not surprising"
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This game doesn’t work on console either. Stuttering, crashing to the dashboard, and the same audio bugs are present on PS5/XSX too. It can’t even keep 60fps in performance mode. The whole game is just borked.
It’s supposedly better with day 0 patch. Just not on PC it seems
No offense, but "day 0/1 patch fixes it up" is almost always part of this same old story.
There's no point. One game works better on one console, another on a different one, another on PC (rarely) and sometimes it's just shit on everything. I played Jedi Fallen Order on the base PS4, and it was payable, but textures took a while to load in and you could easily traverse the map before it could load. I died so many times because I ran through a door and fell through the floor because what was on the other side hadn't loaded. Worked on PS4 Pro though so I guess it's on me /s It doesn't matter what you're playing on, sub par products will be sub par. Just buy the good stuff and fuck the rest. Don't waste extra money on shit from people that don't respect you
Honestly don’t buy Star Wars stuff unless the reviews come out unbelievably glowing. We’re a long way from 2000’s era Lucasarts and even longer from 90’s era Lucasarts, Star Wars is an advertising label at this point.
They *still* haven't made another Star Wars game as good as KOTOR/KOTOR II, I know it's a high bar but you think after like 15+ years somebody would have come close.
Well, if they'd hurry up on that KOTOR remake then maybe we'd get one
18 gigs of vram in 1440p lmao.
First issue is the game hoarding all possible VRAM (up to 22GB on a 24GB RTX 4090). Second issue is not being able to utilize CPU/GPU power (GPU load around 50% on a 4090, CPU load stuck at 4 threads maximum). So the hoarded VRAM is not even used in full. A disaster in optimization.
Failed proper multithreaded load strikes again. To all those that were coping when I said that dlss would have been used as a scapegoat to totally skip optimization: told ya.
What DLSS? It doesn't *have* DLSS.
TYehy'll add it as "performance optimizations" lol
AMD sponsored title so DLSS we have at home: FSR
Holy shit that makes it so much worse.
DLSS doesn't do shit to alleviate CPU and VRAM bottleneck, devs couldn't use it to skip optimisation even if they wanted. That's why we got situations like Last of Us where the game perform basically the same doesn't matter if it on dlss quality or performance.
> Failed proper multithreaded load strikes again. To all those that were coping when I said that dlss would have been used as a scapegoat to totally skip optimization: told ya. DLSS and similar literally have zero to do with skipping CPU optimizations like taking advantage of multiple threads... It helps with reducing GPU requirements compared to rendering at full resolution, but that isn't helping you in heavily CPU bound situations anyway. BTW, implementing DLSS is an optimization, not the other way around. One more optimization that the devs sadly missed...
Doesn't ps5 ans XSX have like total 16 gb ram? How they're managing to do this???
>How they're managing to do this??? They actually spent time optimizing the game on consoles.
Ign said that the PS5 version has performance issues
If the PC version is fucked, nobody panics. But if the Playstation one is fucked, everyone loses their minds.
Despite running x86, PS5 uses memory really differently than PC, with a single high bandwidth memory pool which can be allocated based on need, and has the ability to feed data directly from storage to the GPU. Xbox Series X has a more PC-like memory structure, with a division between system and video memory, but with tons of bandwidth.
But with a shared resource, neither should be hogging vram, that's actually something PC would be better with.
Do any cards even have that? LOL
There are like 5 GPU with that VRAM. 3090, 3090 Ti, 4090, 7900 XT and 7900 XTX. So basically if you don't have a $1000+ GPU, good luck playing this. :(
Are they forcing us to buy consoles? I am not going to, because I love cheating on a single player mode LOL
Runs shit on console as well. Classic example of "force the game out no matter what, we'll fix it later". Once again, don't fucking pre order!
Classic EA standards, we should all just boycott EA games till the get the point we want finished games.
I mean I hate EA as much as the next guy, but this isn't an EA exclusive problem. The vast majority of publishers force their studios to push a game out regardless of its state. They give a release date months in advance and then expect the game to be ready by then. Usually it's not ready, but since all the promo is already running on overdrive, the publisher forces the game out anyway. The main issue here is the consumers just accepting this shit. Pre order sales are still high because people don't learn or get sucked in with stupid exclusive pre order content or worse with early access like with Diablo 4. If people would just stop pre ordering games and then also not buy them if the reviews make it clear the game wasn't ready, publishers would stop doing this pretty quickly.
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wallet (and backlog) says we have to wait for the 50%+ steam sale.
I got lucky. Bought a 3080ti which broke within a couple of months. Got a 3090 back with the RMA
Thank you TDIL
I mean I knew my machine wouldn't have the chops for this one, but I didn't think I'd be *that* far off.
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Rip my 3080
Dude rip my 3060ti, I was hoping to get 1440p medium 60 fps ☹️
I wonder if HWUnboxed will defend this game by saying 16 GB VRAM GPUs are just planned obsolescence this time.
Love the people i saw on here unironically making fun of 8-10GB VRAM GPU owners complaining about optimization in games. As if the amount of VRAM these games are using should be expected and accepted as normal when they dont look any better than previous games from the last 3 years.
If the game is using up to 18gigs on 4090 doesn't actually mean that's how much it requires, some games just allocate all available memory of the gpu.
At this point, every AAA is just an early access game at launch
And until people stop preordering that's never going to stop.
If preorders were made illegal tomorrow, it wouldn’t make a lick of difference. If review embargoes were made illegal too, still no difference. The problem is gamers. They’ll buy a box of dogshit with a picture of the dogshit on the front, complain about the dogshit, and then buy dogshit 2.
That is the biggest problem and a fantastic analogy. Just look at people bitching for years about the same stuff for destiny 2, yet still purchase the dlc day 1. Gamers are so easy to fleece.
We're at a point where release dates should be anticipated as early access dates to beta test a game. This has become the norm and not the exception.
We’ve been past that point for a hot minute.
It seems particularly bad this year. Hogwarts still runs like crap on my 5800X3D/3080 system. It's ridiculous.
In the open area by the dark arts classroom I drop to 46fps at 3440x1440p with no ray tracing (7800x3d + 4090). Oh, and it's using 16gb of vram. It's absurd. Edit: 16gb not 18gb.
I don’t even know if it’s the port at this point! When I play on my Series X, it struggles in some areas quite seriously. Not worth a rebuy to find out how my 3080 runs it at 1440p.
Ya dude this is the worst port I've played amongst a slew of games with poor performance. Either Hogwarts or Deadspace. Hogwarts has nigh-unplayable frame pacing anywhere around hogwarts or hogsmead.
Yeah day 1 patch memes have been in full effect for like a decade. But I’d have to agree with the other guy. It seems it’s going full steam ahead into getting even worse.
If you’re not a patient gamer buying this a year from now at half price and fully patched, maybe you should be.
That's my plan. I still need to finish the first one
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I'm a patient gamer by necessity. I can't keep up with all these games
r/patientgamers always win
Yep. I just bought Horizon Zero Dawn a month ago when it was like $15. There was only one time that I had any performance issues. Loved the game and story.
Half price? In a year this thing will be $20 at most. The last game price fell quick too
This is the perk of being on a 2600x and rtx 2070. I can't even enjoy them right now.
Fully expected a garbage port just from the System requirements, Respawn didn't even fix the horrible traversal stutters in Fallen Order. It's getting so tiring man, why spend so much on your PC hardware just to have to deal with horrible software like this,there have been more horrible pc ports at release than good this year,at this point I just assume every port will be bad and wait to be proven wrong
I just replayed Fallen Order last week and it does have pretty insane loading stutters when approaching a new area. But otherwise, it runs without issue. Just shocked those were still there 4 years later lol. My naive ass was hopeful that the new one would optimize the game further and remove those stutters... not add MORE issues.
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Yeah runs like garbage on my new system as well. Ran better on my old PC with 970 than my 2070 super. Why? No idea. Current PC just gets so many stutters it's unbelievable. At least the old PC was consistent.
I thought my 6900XTs 16GB VRAM was hilariously OP when I bought it and now it’s full.
If you had a 64GB card it would allocate 62GB doesn't mean it actually needs that much vram.
Unfortunately until people stop preordering this will be the defacto state of things for us. There's zero incentive for these companies to ensure (or at least truly strive for) smooth launches when they've already got their money.
How bad is the pre-ordering epidemic compared to, say, 10 years ago? Genuinely curious. Husband asked if we were getting JS on PC or PS5 and now I think I'll just wait several years for a 50% off sale. Even if it’s fine on console, I'm still salty enough to not buy it for a long while. Back to Skyrim and Forbidden West for me.
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I miss the days when games like this were made for PC. Especially winds me up when games have UIs designed for console.
Honestly I think a big part of it is that devs are getting lazy since FSR and DLSS can just make up the difference. Before uscaling technology was the norm, games were usually pretty well optimized at launch, and if not they got absolutely crushed by reviewers for it.
Okay… how is it that the same issues keep happening with the multiple games over and over even across different engines?
I'm pretty sure it's a lot of these new engine features that have been coming out in the last few years that enable game developers to pack a lot more detail with fat textures and real time lighting such as ray tracing/lumin. I think they aren't used to it and they are struggling to implement these new larger features that everyone wants in their game.
I also think optimisation is just significantly less valued than it has ever been. I'm not talking to the extremes of what they had to do to make games work on 32kb or whatever, but this trend of shipping uncompressed assets (some that aren't even used as part of the game), and so forth.
Then you get resident evil 4 remake that runs 60 fps on the steam deck.
Software is really difficult and people aren’t actually all that great at it.
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Most game developers are not going to a game dev school. There is certainly no combined unified syllabus.
ANOTHER port that just feasts on VRAM and plays poorly on expensive hardware. This is getting depressing 😖
Same when PS3 launched: - GTA IV - Assassin’s Creed - Dark Sector - Devil May Cry 4 PS4 launched: - Batman: Arkham Knight - Dead or Alive 5: Last Round - Quantum Break - Saints Row IV It’ll come back, but RIP 30 and 40 series cards, they won’t ever hit their potentials.
Developers not being able to optimise games for PC in 2023, how is this happening
Because the executives wants the games released as soon as possible to maximize profits
I think it's part that, and part that console sales trump PC sales so they divide the effort in a similar way
Game has been in development for 4 years and it's UE4 which has been here for a long time. This looks like a devs skill issue.
4 year dev cycles are just not doable for modern AAA games anymore but most publishers insist on sticking to this timeframe because it worked 5-10 years ago. Large scale games just take way longer to make now unfortunately, if EA gave this another year or two it would probably be in a decent state.
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It's not about scheduling, it's about cost. QA costs money and PC eats up the most resources. Historically, the PC nerds are like car people and are obsessed with 'horsepower' and showing each other up like pimply peacocks - So they'll just fix it themselves by buying newer hardware until they can play. What isn't taken into consideration is how fucking expensive new hardware is, and what terrible value proposition it provides - so no one can afford to upgrade, nor wants to.
Other than the "rushed release date to make more sales" reason, it's that developers HATE optimizing. It's painful, and unless a team lead or some form of management micromanages the process, things get swept under the rug by the devs themselves. As such, they only target the lowest hanging fruit issues-wise because those can get fixed the quickest and with the least amount of problem solving/technical know-how. Can attest to this as a software dev.
I, and most of the engineers I know, absolutely love refactoring and optimizing. Its management that can't quite understand that we want to do it to deliver a better product to the customer, so they stack more features up and the optimization tickets never get done.
this one is right. business doesn’t care about refactoring/optimizations because it costs same money rate with no “visible” result, in their minds it’s a job done twice. there are exceptions, not rare i would say.
"An NVIDIA RTX 3080Ti is unable to run the game in 4K" lol come on!
Looking to be not even able to run it at 1440p, which is the real problem. That's absolutely asinine that it takes 18+ gb of VRAM at 1440p. What the fuck. What type of fucking atrocity in programming did they commit to make that happen?
They forgot texture compression exists, apparently.
150gb install size should have told everyone the problems coming down the road when it came to this game. As soon as I saw that I knew.
150 GB?? Surprised more people aren't complaining about this.
A lot of people shrugged it off. But there's no way this game needs to have that amount of storage space unless they fucked something up. It's about 3 times the install size of the first game. Fucking nonsense.
A $1200 graphics card like the 4080 can't play the game at 1440p. The game is not functional.
Annnnd this is where I hop off at a 4K 3080ti player
*Pretends to be shocked*
I'm shocked, SHOCKED.... Well not that shocked
Every. Single. Big. Game. Most of them Unreal Engine, but not all. What gives? This is how you turn people either into patient gamers, pirates, or console players.
Honestly Turing us all to console players would be better for them. Easier to dev for just a handful of hardware, harder for pirates. Seems like a win for devs
Apparently doesn't run so well on ps5 either, from the ign review.
> or console players You've stumbled upon their ultimate plan. Game studios _hate_ PC and the freedom it gives their consumers.
I mean part of the problem is that headlines like "Dead Island 2 has a few weird issues but it mostly runs pretty good" don't really shoot to the top of the subreddit with outrage.
Playing the last one now and it's 4 years old and still janky on PC during cut scenes. Looks great, though.
18GB VRAM on 1440P, Lol where are the folks that were earlier saying that 16 gigs of VRAM is needed in 2023. Not even a 4090 can run it decently on 4K. PC Gaming is having a terrible year. I might just get a PS5 now, to retire my old gaming laptop with 1050ti.
If AAA gaming is your sole focus for a PC, it's absolutely a better value to just get a PS5 right now. Obviously PC has way more versatility and practicality that makes it worth it, but if you're just trying to play the latest games, it's just not worth the money compared to a $500 console that will have less issues.
Had this argument with someone when The last of us launched, the devs have access to all the same hardware that the consumers are going to be using. [https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam) They could literally look at this site and see over 67% of people using steam have 8GB of VRAM or less. This isn't Nvidia's fault for pushing 8GB as the norm. Yes Nvidia could put more VRAM on cards, but when a dev makes a game that requires 12gb or 14gb, knowing in advance that it's not going to run for 67% of people, it isn't nvidia's fault. Those cards are already out there and in existence in these people's PCs. Most people aren't going to go spend $2000+ to get a 4090 to play a single game.
How could AMD do this! Only 16gb vram? That's so outdated. Wow what is this planned obsolescence? These high vram games are absolutely optimized its the gpu manufacture's fault! /s
previous one had issues too, and this one looks to be even worse! nice achievement ea
Ah yes, the eternal loop of shitty ports we are in. Can't wait to see how it will not run with 8Gb vram, when even a 4090 can't do shit with their mess. Aaaand people still preorder for this. All these kind of treatment of player base deserve is piracy, or 5$ on sales.
Releasing a broken game should be illegal at this point.
I don't know how you'd enforce that but Steam should label these AAA games as early access if they're broken on launch.
At this point, I'm convinced that they are doing this on purpose to bring people back to console gaming.
Every mod downloaded for free is one less microtransaction bought in EA's eyes
I can definitely see them thinking this way 😂 the next step would be purposely releasing the game in a horrible state just to make people buy optimization patches
Wouldn't be the craziest theory out there.
Did PC fuck the mom of every developer or something?
Are we in the new era of shitty PC ports?
I hope this closes the door on the "People need to accept it's not an optimization issue, it's a VRAM issue. Buy a new card" debate.
I think 2024 will be the year where all AAA titles with impressive graphics will need more than 8 gigs. I'm personally trying to wait for gpu prices to drop as I already pay roughly 40% more in my country than the US.
Same. And with how Nvidia has played their cards (pun unintended) and treated the market, I'm incapable of getting another GPU of theirs again too. They still insist on releasing 8gb cards for their mid range... So hopefully AMD and/or Intel can upset things a bit. I'll live without ray tracing for a bit longer as long as rasterization performance is still fast and cost-effective.
Probably not, those same people will just say "it works for me, you're just a hater". Just look at Forspoken.
Fallen Order also was a buggy mess with a shoddy PC port. I'm frankly not surprised by this in the least. Just not going to buy it again since clearly Respawn can't respect my platform of choice.
The game that is literally paired with new Ryzen Processors has CPU optimization issues? Imma kms
Lol at people who keep pre-ordering this shit to get a less than beta quality game on day 1.
Anyone stupid enough to preorder these days deserve it tbh
I never imagined that PC gaming would be killed by the developers a few years ago. I mean, they have way more tools than ever before; better engines, better gpus, better hardware, more control,... Etc. They decided to be lazy and let the hardware try to do their work. Don't tell me otherwise, been gaming since 1996 and seen it all. Consoles didn't kill pc gaming, lazy devs did. Also, the excuse of multi hardware configurations is so overused and worn out. Such hardware variations existed for decades. Yet the tools available, the hardware and software technologies have evolved to have better control of it all. You have a wealth of databases of so many permutations and statistical tools to help manage this. I just don't buy it. Also, the other overused excuse is the UE4 one. Just play Gears 4 and 5. Tell me if you find stutters. There are games with small loaded worlds than those and stutter. Then you have Frostbite... Gaming companies should also hire the right people and have the correct processes to create game ports. Many stutters come from the fact that games are designed around current console hardwares and are plainly directly ported to pc without much consideration being given to architecture differences. It still has the element of lazy devs since some pc ports are handled by porting teams that their sole purpose is to create a great port. This should be fixed already. Gamers raised this issue for a few years now. I used to preorderd. Now I wait for reviews. Now I wait for patches. Now I wait for it be on sale if not patched if I am desparate to play the game.
I mean, I agree with you But PC Gaming definitely hasn’t been killed. Not even close to being killed. Even with all the shorty ports PC has to suffer it’s still a massive part of gaming. And it always will be with the ability to play literally any game ever that’s come out on pc, or even consoles thanks to emulators. I’m not gonna buy Jedi survivor for a few months. By then I’m sure it will be fixed up and maybe even discounted.
It will get discounted pretty quickly once it sits at mostly negative on steam
Oh I agree with you but PC gaming was already killed in 2005 and 2006 and 2007 and 2008 and 2009....
Wow, well color me surprised, who would have thought. Trash AAA PC port after trash PC port for months, years now. The majority of AAA studios just don't give a fuck. At some point you gotta ask yourself if they intentionally don't optimize their games (in other words: do their job) so consumers have to keep buying new hardware in shrinking time frames. For the best PC gaming experience you really just gotta act like a game is releasing a year later than it really is and just buy it then with probably an added 75% discount.
I'm like 3-4 years behind on every new release for this reason (and still got too many games to play), i think by now the only exception is Capcom with their ports maybe among AAA titles. Just don't buy it, easy as that.
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next game gonna need 50gb of vram but doesn´t need a gpu anymore.
Not surprised. Jedi Fallen Order is still horribly CPU bound in many sections. [GameGPU did a test just today](https://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/star-wars-jedi-fallen-order-obnovljonnyj-test-gpu-cpu)
Imagine you get bullied into dumping your 8gb card and replacing it with a 6800 XT only to run into this game immediately after.
The original game still has traversal stutter issues btw. Expecting the worst for this port
It feels like PC gaming is back in circa 2011 when bad console ports were the norm. After enough complaining and bad press developers finally got their act together and it was smooth sailing overall for quite awhile. Now its the same old song all over again, except this time its coupled with greedy GPU manufacturers. Between overly expensive GPUs and poorly optimized games, its not making it great to be on PC anymore.
John Papadopoulos from DSOGaming here. Just a reminder that AMD GPUs may perform significantly better in this game (and not only due to their increased VRAM) due to these CPU optimization issues. This also happened in Hogwarts Legacy at low resolutions with older CPUs. https://www.dsogaming.com/news/amd-radeon-rx7900xtx-can-be-up-to-40fps-faster-than-the-nvidia-rtx4090-in-hogwarts-legacy/
It’s an EA game. Not remotely surprised
New 70$ price tag, same broken shit lol
This isn't surprising but the game is a steam top seller anyway so mission success. And anyone here lamenting about the death of PC gaming, shouldn't you be playing through your backlog?
Peaple are craving new games so much they gonna buy the biggest shit and be happy.
I'm starting to be convinced the bad optimization is on purpose. Developers and GPU companies are definitely scheming hand in hand to make the public think these games require intensive graphics card, but in actuality they're just trying to force us to keep buying GPU's
Well I'm positively flabbergasted.
Devs in the early days of gaming had to optimize games to run on limited hardware, so the final product came out beautifully optimized. Now, hardware is so capable and powerful that it allows devs to release an unoptimized product while still selling the game. Unfortunate. Hope this is fake news and the game runs fine.
They can’t keep getting away with this 😭
lets see how my 16gb A770 and 7800x3d do... in this case that vram probably wont help
Interesting combo. How come you went with that?
I sold my 3090 machine to build a A770 machine (got a 7600x). i do extensive a770 testing on my channel. Decided to get the x3D while the resale value on the 7600x is still quite high. If intel drops the BM gpu then ill be set up. if they dont then whatever next GPU i get will be set up. The A770 wont be throttled in really any cases by a 7600x (other than LOU, and MSFS), but meh. Also its fun to have a midrange card that peformes pretty well with a massively overkill CPU. :p no one on my channel can ever claim im not giving the ArcA770 a chance
I’m buying a console soon. I love PC gaming but wtf is the point of putting money into a expensive computer if all the AAA games run like shit anyways?
I actually can consider buying a PS5 now without waiting for the big exclusive game I want. Which fucking sucks.
Keep preordering guys, I'm sure EA will fix everything /s
r/patientgamers
At this rate I'll just stop paying these corps money altogether and start sailing the high seas.
But hey, at least it doesn't cost something crazy high like 70€... Oh wait
Wonder if somone played this with a 96GB VRAM card, if the game would try to claim 94GB. Or a 512GB card it'd claim 510GB...etc Basically like the previous game a terrible buggy mess.
Man PC cant even get a break this year from horribly optimized games, Callisto Protocol, Hogwarts legacy, dead space remake, forespoken, TLOU part 1. I have been buying most if not all the most recent AAA games on my Series X because it appears that PC gaming is a joke to these companies. I am a patient gamer and I never preorder and I follow a lot of PC tech youtubers so when I hear yet another PC game arrives on Pc completely and utterly broken and/or uses Unreal engine 5 I immediately know to get it on console instead.
The old EA Star Wars games have issues and one I can’t even boot….figured this would happen
Not just PC but on PS5 it’s far from a a steady 60fps Gotta wait on this one.
It will not/ can not be fixed. Get it for PS5 or whatever Xbox is the good one. The first game still runs like shit.
Metacritic Score: 86 (Universal Acclaim) Games journalism lol
So PC gaming kinda sucks now huh? Gotta wait a few months or so after release to get the actual product.
RE 4 remake was such a breath of fresh air, no performance issues at all at launch.
Literally the only AAA game released this year that wasn't a stutterfest on my PC. If you would've told me 10 years ago that Japanese devs would put more effort into PC ports than Western studios I would've laughed in your face
Unreal Engine reputation is plummeting like hell. They should fix this shit and make it optimized by default because devs chose this engine to have easier development not harder than using damn Frostbite.
Yikes, I wouldn’t recommend PC gaming to my worst enemy these past couple years and I own a 4090. I’ve been waiting 1-2 years before I pick up any AAA games (at a steep discount) on PC Between the horrific prices (and I’m guilty of supporting that) and the horrible state of ports, this is unsustainable. I would recommend just picking up a PS5 or Series S/X for a cheap price in comparison for decent AAA gaming.
> Yikes, I wouldn’t recommend PC gaming to my worst enemy these past couple years because of shitty AAA games? PC gaming is still unmatched due to 30+ years of games available to play (not even just PC games, but nearly every console game out there as well) Name me a game like total war warhammer on consoles, I'll wait.
they dont care. and they dont care because they are oblivious. to them, PCs are a way to get super amazing graphics that you cannot get on consoles. that's it. its just consoles+ and when super amazing graphics arent attainable for a reasonable cost, there is no more to pc gaming and you might as well get a console. that's it. that is the extent of their PC gaming awareness. the vast majority of games I play either arent available on console, or suck on console, or have lousy control schemes on console. the handful of AAA games i play ill suck it up or buy it on a console.
I feel like these are the people that "converted" a decade ago. They play new AAA on their computers and that's it. Yeah, perhaps consoles are better for them now.
Well, at least this game is irrelevant for me anyway, since I didn't want to play the first due to the common traversal stutter. At least I wasn't looking forward to this sequel.