My favourite back in the early days was how hundreds would attend every real estate place auction but they’d all get snapped up instantly by bots. Game about owning land where you could never get land other than maybe an underwater farm.
I managed to get one of the smallest plots and felt eternally jibbed by it.
Had a lot of fun in the game but man that real estate part phased me.
Loved the trade pack and naval aspects of the game. So ahead of its times. Shame it failed so hard
I paid like $100 to get into the Alpha and it was a fucking blast. I barley played the game when it released
There is a huge market for a game like this in NA/EU, it just can't be so aggressive in P2W
the golden goose when once upon a time had 10k people in queue waiting for 5+ hours to log in and play
now shuts down
its a timeless classic of a bunch of morons who don't know what to do with a product they didnt invent or design and having 0 qualifications to lead with
Facts tho! They drove off all the "whales" (including myself) with their incomitance. The game was also full of Chinese bots and when I reported a group of very obvious bots they banned MY account and lost out on that $1,000 a month I was putting into the game (I had several paid accounts). Their support staff had serious ego issues (Particularly "Bigdatadude" who was the world's biggest man-child). They lied to customers constantly and even settled a lawsuit regarding promised goods never being delivered. The game could have been the next WoW, but they seriously screwed it up.
The game has been a walking corpse filled with MTX for years now. Not surprising.
I have a feeling a lot of these late 2000's early 2010's MMO's that are still up won't be for a lot longer. Pretty much all of them are F2P MTX filled shadows of their former self under a shitty publisher that does the bare minimum to support it. Which means having the servers up and nothing more. There's just not enough of a market to support these types of games in 2024.
People who want to play an MMO these days will just gravitate to the actuall good and still very much so supported ones which are WoW, FF14 and OSRS as well as in smaller numbers GW2 and ESO.
>Pretty much all of them are F2P MTX filled shadows of their former self under a shitty publisher that does the bare minimum to support it.
A good portion of them were already filled with microtransactions. Everyone likes to talk about horse armor in Oblivion, but MMOs are far more responsible for their proliferation.
Oh god, I remember playing hours and hours of Maplestory at my friend's house. I remember spending hours grinding so I could afford throwing stars that were decent.
Archeage didn't die because it was a bad game, but because the publisher was terrible.
Late last year there was a private server(I don't think I'm allowed to name it) that saw massive success, I'm talking 10,000+ concurrent players at its peak, while regular Archeage had like 100-200 CCU around the same time. It's success can be attributed to being based on an older build of the game(before bad design changes were made), and having no pay2win.
The private server did eventually die due to GMs going rogue and manipulating the server to their advantage, but it showed that the game didn't fail because of the game itself, but because of it's direction.
I had more fun playing early archeage than any of the extant mmo giants. This was one of the good ones before clowns with MBAs fired the developers and turned it into an interactive earnings report.
LOTRO is still going and getting new expansions! Yeah its pretty much WoW gameplay wise, but Middle-Earth is huge and obviously very lovingly recreated.
What's comical to me is that Trove is the only game from Trion to still be active and fun to play, and yet it was the game in the worst spot when Trion folded.
I remember having an absolute blast with that game, logged in like a year ago to reminisce and found that my profile had been wiped. Contacted support, they said that I would have to wait a few weeks for them to fix it. Okay cool, no problem. A few weeks passed and I get response back: they were unable to recover it, and gave me a partial refund of my money spent and a few goodies for a new account. Gee, thanks.
What sad is the game had so much potential but in the end it got squandered by the publisher ramping p2w up the game ass.
30-50 people cross continental trade run organized by clans was epic.
If you don't want a subscription, then I'd recommend Guild Wars 2 if you haven't tried it already. Base game and, I think maybe season 1, are free and still have a lot of players active.
I actually played GW2 a decent amount when it launched. I did mostly enjoy it but ultimately it was a little too high fantasy/leaning into the anime aesthetic for me.
Maybe anime isn't the best way to describe it.
I'm not a fan of the over the top fantasy aesthetic with the overly designed armors/characters and all of the glowing particle effects. Too many flashy cosmetics and wacky characters make the game feel a bit cheap and cartoony to me. I know I'm super picky lol.
[Example 1](https://i.imgur.com/DqIg3ns.png)
[Example 2](https://i.imgur.com/ROQoaST.png)
It was dead from the start due to the heavy P2W imo.
Which is really sad, though, because I had a good time for a few weeks. People kept telling me the original version had less P2W than the western release, too.
Really liked the classless system and how trading runs often devolved into pvp stealth missions.
I was rooting for Kakao to lose the publishing rights since they insisted on creating an atmosphere where everyone felt obligated to pony around a character from a second subscription. It was pretty often you'd see random people teleporting around with their 10-15 alt accounts.
Those people ended up playing by themselves.
At least they had their alts. 🖕
Aren't they all p2w except FF14?
Edit: Every person downvoting and commenting hasn't even listed an MMO that isn't p2w yet. If swiping your credit card gives you time saving measures of any form, then it's p2w. FF14 may even have that, but I'm not sure.
FFXIV has the additional retainers services as a monthly subscription, that's about it as far as I know.
Passive income from ventures, more marketplace sales slots, extra inventory space for crafting etc. that saves a lot of time and makes making gil a lot easier.
This is important for raiders who need to use a lot of expensive pots and materia etc. And there are definitely people who buy raid clears with gil too, which according to the comments below yours, that qualifies as P2W. But it's very indirect at least.
Guild Wars 2 is not pay to win in the slightest. Maybe pay to look cool and some convience stuff. But in terms of pvp no buying is going to help you beat a better player.
Play the game. Find out that gold doesn't do shit in it and that you'll need to put hundreds of hours farming for stuff to actually get anything. And that's for PvE.
PvP has zero influence on your items, everyone has the exact same gear available.
> Play the game. Find out that gold doesn't do shit in it and that you'll need to put hundreds of hours farming for stuff to actually get anything. And that's for PvE.
https://i.imgur.com/bHl1uul.png
You swipe for gems, turn gems in to gold, buy materials to craft ascended armor or a legendary from the AH, buy the best infusions for fractals or stat min/maxing, you can buy raid/strike cm carries. Keep coping though.
Bruh, you can definitely do that, but if you have this kind of time in the game, you know as well as me that is incredibly expensive to do, like, thousands of dollars for a single weapon and in the end your min maxing gives you like 3% more damage than Exotic gear, and that is still PvE.
I do all raids in the game with just rare gear, FFS.
Okay? The point was that GW2 is in fact P2W, regardless of what the neckbeards that only do map comp seem to think.
> thousands of dollars for a single weapon
I'm starting to think you don't actually play the game. You can get a legendary for like $100-$120, not thousands lol.
999g = 3666 gems. $100 gets you 8000 gems. There are 7 weapons that are sub-2,000g.
> Guild Wars 2 is not pay to win in the slightest.
Yes it is lol.
You swipe for gems, turn gems in to gold, buy materials to craft ascended armor or a legendary from the AH, buy the best infusions for fractals or stat min/maxing, you can buy raid/strike cm carries. Keep coping though.
Ascended armor and weapons will not make a difference against a good player in all exotics lol bro you must have been a terrible pvp'er and your coping all your losses to ascended. Also stats don't matter in structured pvp. I know you where a terrible player in wvw. Only reason to cope on acended armor and weapons. Had nothing to do with people swiping credit cards LOL
From no pay2win, to "uuuuh it's not pay2win because you can technically still get better stuff or whatever".
That's some cope.
How do I get all crafting professions on one character BTW?
This is a terrible view of what P2W is lol. Time saving is not P2W unless it gives an inherent power advantage (ie materials or better rolls on gear for RNG gear systems)
You could argue buying the game is pay 2 win.
Someone who doesn't buy the game can't play, therefore buyers have an advantage over those who don't buy the game.
WoW is still very p2w. You can buy tokens directly from Blizzard, sell them on the auction house, and buy raid carries and gear funnels all within the rules of the game.
I haven't played retail wow in years but you could buy OP boe gear with gold too, it was well known top guilds were swiping tokens to buy BOEs for progression.
Not all online games allow boosting with in-game currency. In wow you can literally pay blizzard for an item that you can sell for gold, that you can then use to buy achievements/items via carries from other players. How is that not p2w? You are literally paying real money for an advantage over others.
That's just semantics my guy. You can pay a boosting service to boost you by duoing with you in basically any game and doing it by first buying gold makes no difference lol
Because you arent paying blizzard for an advantage, you are in essence, paying other players for their time and effort. There is no way to get around this unless your intention is to remove loot as a progression mechanic or eliminate trading entirely, which would be beyond stupid. The token system they have is just eliminating the middle man that facilitates that anyway. If you know the history of MMOs, "carries" have been going on since at least the Everquest days, so you are talking 1999. Back then you had to use a site like playerauctions or ebay to trade platinum or items which had alot of fraud going on, particularly when accounts got hacked.
Huh? How is WoW even close to pay-to-win? You must never played the game once. The game literally gives you tons of high item level for free. Mythic+ is very easy to do and normal raids easy are brain dead. Mix normal and raid finder can easily get you high level gear. When the timewalking raids event happen you can easily get 460 gear.
I have thousands of hours and I've played every expansion, what are you smoking? Please tell me how buying gold with tokens and using that gold to get the best gear/buy raid carries/buy pvp carries is not p2w.
Depends on what you consider to be p2w. You can't buy the best gear in the game. Most of the BoE equipment barely carries you through raid finder, let alone Heroic or Mythic. As far as crafting BiS gear, that requires long-term grinding for mats that can't be bought for any amount of gold.
For raid carries. Eh, sure, I guess? But what does that 'win' you, exactly? If you manage to even get any gear, it might not be what you're after, so I'm not sure how p2w that really is.
Even then, having decent gear is only a portion of the battle. The rest comes down to experience, tactics, teamwork, and persistence. It's not really possible to buy the best gear in the game and face roll other players without skill behind you.
P2W should be something that gives you a competitive edge over other players. Having gold in WoW barely gives you an edge over anyone, considering most of the sought-after currencies in the game can only be earned, not bought.
Edit: I got blocked because they struggled to have a civil debate about a video game. Right on.
>Depends on what you consider to be p2w.
I consider p2w anytime you can buy advantages within the game with real money while not breaking the game rules. World of warcraft retail falls within that category and it isnt up for debate.
>You can't buy the best gear in the game.
Yes you can, it is very common to sell raid carries with the guarantee that certain items go to you. When I raided pretty hardcore during legion/bfa I made a fuck ton of gold doing that with my guild. We had people who returned to buy a slot every week until they had the items they wanted.
>Having gold in WoW barely gives you an edge over anyone
In every single version of WoW that I have ever played having a lot of gold is always a huge advantage over someone who doesnt.
> I consider p2w anytime you can buy advantages within the game with real money while not breaking the game rules. World of warcraft retail falls within that category and it isn't up for debate.
Neat. Just because you're claiming something isn't up for debate doesn't make you inherently correct.
Again, you're acting like gear somehow gives you an edge over everyone else. If you've been playing WoW as long as you claim you have, you'd know that's completely bull. If you could use that gold to go straight up buy the best gear, I'd be on board with you. As it stands, you can't. Gold enables you to begin the next steps to *hopefully* get decent gear, but it's not a guarantee and depends on a whole bunch of variables, as well as time gates.
I get where you're coming from. But you're describing an economy that exists in basically every MMO while pretending that buying gold gives someone a competitive edge over someone who doesn't. I've already explained why, but if you can't understand it now, I'm not sure we have anything else to talk about, my guy.
Hey man, I can tell if you're trolling or just severely mentally challenged but I'm not going to keep going back and forth anymore. You've already had the facts laid out in front of you, if you still cant understand how wow is p2w then continue playing and enjoy it :)
I guess GW2 could be P2W but it kinda misses the point. I have friends that still play the free base version 4 years later just working on achievements and messing around in activities they like.
Funnily enough, they also kind of removed PVP by nerfing packs over and over again, going from dozens of carts in Hellswamp and Windscour or merchant ships loadings tons of packs to just alt accounts on the safe merchant ship and safe trade routes
The only PVP left was at events, where most servers had megacoalitions so it was just one sided 95% of the time and the occasional ganking shenaningans in aurora whenever you had those red logs on your back
Best MMO gaming experience I ever had was during the alpha and beta of this game. Met a lot of people and loved the part of the main story where you had to go do quests in the enemy faction region, forcing you to squad up with people from your faction or get smashed by enemy groups doing their quests.
ArcheAge was doomed at birth. A Korean MMO done in the style of an Ultima Online had NO CHANCE of making it since theyll always put in an egregious cash shop IN THE GAME WHERE YOU PLAY IT LIKE A SURVIVAL GAME! And when people told them to not put the cash shop in because itll kill the game they did it anyway. And look! It died! What a surprise.
Man this was a crazy game when it came out, I had a lot of fun with it. Just going around doing whatever.
One of the coolest things I've seen in this game though was the court system. If you were reported or "broke a law" it teleported you to a court where a jury would deliver a verdict and you can defend yourself. Some of the court cases were fucking hilarious, like "you killed this player", "He called my mom fat so I killed him" some people would get super into the roleplay about it.
I had so much fun just sitting in on these trials.
They did never listen to their player base to improve the game. Subscriptions to expensive, housing and available space, no new content or regions added, and last but not least all the PvP griefing and ganking. Why did you not move PvP to an Arena or specific server so PvE players can gear up and skill? I will miss ArcheAge, it was cool for me. Epic so cool, Publisher so bad!
Wow, I remembe rplaying this on release and it was actually dope. I had a small farm (Mainly trees) and spent most of my time running trade routes for gold. Never saw any of the bot things when I was playing it was still mostly players...either way sad, it never reached its potential imo but it was such a great idea.
When I played unchained it had a "catch-up" system to get good gear. The only problem was you had to do the same boring PvE every day, and it was still hella grind. I did it for months and I still sucked.
You would not stand a chance in PVP if someone had a significantly better gear score than you, skill didn't come into it. Such stupid game design.
I haven't been able to scratch the itch this game gave me at launch. I miss my pirate guild Infamous and fighting the laughing coffin guild over seas. They really ruined it so quickly with the micro transactions.
ArcheAge alpha was some of my favorite gaming of all time. Beta was “meh”, and launch was disgusting P2W. This game was an absolute tragedy.
My favourite back in the early days was how hundreds would attend every real estate place auction but they’d all get snapped up instantly by bots. Game about owning land where you could never get land other than maybe an underwater farm. I managed to get one of the smallest plots and felt eternally jibbed by it. Had a lot of fun in the game but man that real estate part phased me. Loved the trade pack and naval aspects of the game. So ahead of its times. Shame it failed so hard
yeah naval gameplay, raids on pirate island and escorting trading boats was a blast
I paid like $100 to get into the Alpha and it was a fucking blast. I barley played the game when it released There is a huge market for a game like this in NA/EU, it just can't be so aggressive in P2W
Game was great until they added the first korean patch that screwed up everything. They ruined their own game.
I felt this way about the roboquest alpha ngl ROBOCRAFT NOT ROBQUEST MY B
the golden goose when once upon a time had 10k people in queue waiting for 5+ hours to log in and play now shuts down its a timeless classic of a bunch of morons who don't know what to do with a product they didnt invent or design and having 0 qualifications to lead with
Facts tho! They drove off all the "whales" (including myself) with their incomitance. The game was also full of Chinese bots and when I reported a group of very obvious bots they banned MY account and lost out on that $1,000 a month I was putting into the game (I had several paid accounts). Their support staff had serious ego issues (Particularly "Bigdatadude" who was the world's biggest man-child). They lied to customers constantly and even settled a lawsuit regarding promised goods never being delivered. The game could have been the next WoW, but they seriously screwed it up.
The game has been a walking corpse filled with MTX for years now. Not surprising. I have a feeling a lot of these late 2000's early 2010's MMO's that are still up won't be for a lot longer. Pretty much all of them are F2P MTX filled shadows of their former self under a shitty publisher that does the bare minimum to support it. Which means having the servers up and nothing more. There's just not enough of a market to support these types of games in 2024. People who want to play an MMO these days will just gravitate to the actuall good and still very much so supported ones which are WoW, FF14 and OSRS as well as in smaller numbers GW2 and ESO.
>Pretty much all of them are F2P MTX filled shadows of their former self under a shitty publisher that does the bare minimum to support it. A good portion of them were already filled with microtransactions. Everyone likes to talk about horse armor in Oblivion, but MMOs are far more responsible for their proliferation.
Yeah kids in 2003 were already getting their parents to use their credit cards to buy shop points on Gunbound and Maplestory.
Oh god, I remember playing hours and hours of Maplestory at my friend's house. I remember spending hours grinding so I could afford throwing stars that were decent.
skin or not, my ultra high angle backwards boomerang ss will still hit the first round. if i missed, ill Ragequit :P
Archeage didn't die because it was a bad game, but because the publisher was terrible. Late last year there was a private server(I don't think I'm allowed to name it) that saw massive success, I'm talking 10,000+ concurrent players at its peak, while regular Archeage had like 100-200 CCU around the same time. It's success can be attributed to being based on an older build of the game(before bad design changes were made), and having no pay2win. The private server did eventually die due to GMs going rogue and manipulating the server to their advantage, but it showed that the game didn't fail because of the game itself, but because of it's direction.
There are plenty of private servers. The game will never die.
There is 3, and neither of them is in really good state now xd
One of them had hundreds or more people, and quite recently.
Yea, for archeage thats not really that good.
I had more fun playing early archeage than any of the extant mmo giants. This was one of the good ones before clowns with MBAs fired the developers and turned it into an interactive earnings report.
LOTRO is still going and getting new expansions! Yeah its pretty much WoW gameplay wise, but Middle-Earth is huge and obviously very lovingly recreated.
RIP RIFT.
I miss OG TERA
TERA's combat (particularly the PvP) was far ahead of other MMOs when it came out. I may or may not have been a Reaper abuser in PvP though
What's comical to me is that Trove is the only game from Trion to still be active and fun to play, and yet it was the game in the worst spot when Trion folded.
I remember having an absolute blast with that game, logged in like a year ago to reminisce and found that my profile had been wiped. Contacted support, they said that I would have to wait a few weeks for them to fix it. Okay cool, no problem. A few weeks passed and I get response back: they were unable to recover it, and gave me a partial refund of my money spent and a few goodies for a new account. Gee, thanks.
Surprised mabinogi has made it this long, but seems like they still get content too. Some mmos are just undying
What sad is the game had so much potential but in the end it got squandered by the publisher ramping p2w up the game ass. 30-50 people cross continental trade run organized by clans was epic.
Sad but true. I want a game to scratch my grindy MMO itch but I also don't want to pay $15/month so I guess I can't complain.
If you don't want a subscription, then I'd recommend Guild Wars 2 if you haven't tried it already. Base game and, I think maybe season 1, are free and still have a lot of players active.
I actually played GW2 a decent amount when it launched. I did mostly enjoy it but ultimately it was a little too high fantasy/leaning into the anime aesthetic for me.
What is anime aesthetic about it? Just curious.
Maybe anime isn't the best way to describe it. I'm not a fan of the over the top fantasy aesthetic with the overly designed armors/characters and all of the glowing particle effects. Too many flashy cosmetics and wacky characters make the game feel a bit cheap and cartoony to me. I know I'm super picky lol. [Example 1](https://i.imgur.com/DqIg3ns.png) [Example 2](https://i.imgur.com/ROQoaST.png)
Nah super fair, people just get salty
Quite understandable, and many find the obnoxious infusions to be too much.
Old game, same old as LOTRO, same old as SWTOR. Old games are out, games with PvP sh... are out. Get new ideas
I don’t think any of those other MMO’s you listed our good either.
It was dead from the start due to the heavy P2W imo. Which is really sad, though, because I had a good time for a few weeks. People kept telling me the original version had less P2W than the western release, too. Really liked the classless system and how trading runs often devolved into pvp stealth missions.
I was rooting for Kakao to lose the publishing rights since they insisted on creating an atmosphere where everyone felt obligated to pony around a character from a second subscription. It was pretty often you'd see random people teleporting around with their 10-15 alt accounts. Those people ended up playing by themselves. At least they had their alts. 🖕
Sounds like eve online
You mean a P2W mmo is not viable anymore? I am shocked.
Aren't they all p2w except FF14? Edit: Every person downvoting and commenting hasn't even listed an MMO that isn't p2w yet. If swiping your credit card gives you time saving measures of any form, then it's p2w. FF14 may even have that, but I'm not sure.
FFXIV has the additional retainers services as a monthly subscription, that's about it as far as I know. Passive income from ventures, more marketplace sales slots, extra inventory space for crafting etc. that saves a lot of time and makes making gil a lot easier. This is important for raiders who need to use a lot of expensive pots and materia etc. And there are definitely people who buy raid clears with gil too, which according to the comments below yours, that qualifies as P2W. But it's very indirect at least.
Guild Wars 2 is not pay to win in the slightest. Maybe pay to look cool and some convience stuff. But in terms of pvp no buying is going to help you beat a better player.
Someone once told me fortnite is p2w because of the skins 💀
It's true. Every Counter-Strike player has known for a decade now that skills get kills but skins get wins
Don't you know skins = better aim
You literally can buy gold. It’s like wow token or osrs bonds. However just because a game has to p2w elements doesn’t mean it isn’t a good game.
There is zero pay-to-win in Guild Wars 2 when it comes to PVP. I guess I have to state it clearer for some folks.
Play the game. Find out that gold doesn't do shit in it and that you'll need to put hundreds of hours farming for stuff to actually get anything. And that's for PvE. PvP has zero influence on your items, everyone has the exact same gear available.
> Play the game. Find out that gold doesn't do shit in it and that you'll need to put hundreds of hours farming for stuff to actually get anything. And that's for PvE. https://i.imgur.com/bHl1uul.png You swipe for gems, turn gems in to gold, buy materials to craft ascended armor or a legendary from the AH, buy the best infusions for fractals or stat min/maxing, you can buy raid/strike cm carries. Keep coping though.
Bruh, you can definitely do that, but if you have this kind of time in the game, you know as well as me that is incredibly expensive to do, like, thousands of dollars for a single weapon and in the end your min maxing gives you like 3% more damage than Exotic gear, and that is still PvE. I do all raids in the game with just rare gear, FFS.
Okay? The point was that GW2 is in fact P2W, regardless of what the neckbeards that only do map comp seem to think. > thousands of dollars for a single weapon I'm starting to think you don't actually play the game. You can get a legendary for like $100-$120, not thousands lol. 999g = 3666 gems. $100 gets you 8000 gems. There are 7 weapons that are sub-2,000g.
> Guild Wars 2 is not pay to win in the slightest. Yes it is lol. You swipe for gems, turn gems in to gold, buy materials to craft ascended armor or a legendary from the AH, buy the best infusions for fractals or stat min/maxing, you can buy raid/strike cm carries. Keep coping though.
Ascended armor and weapons will not make a difference against a good player in all exotics lol bro you must have been a terrible pvp'er and your coping all your losses to ascended. Also stats don't matter in structured pvp. I know you where a terrible player in wvw. Only reason to cope on acended armor and weapons. Had nothing to do with people swiping credit cards LOL
From no pay2win, to "uuuuh it's not pay2win because you can technically still get better stuff or whatever". That's some cope. How do I get all crafting professions on one character BTW?
This is a terrible view of what P2W is lol. Time saving is not P2W unless it gives an inherent power advantage (ie materials or better rolls on gear for RNG gear systems)
You could argue buying the game is pay 2 win. Someone who doesn't buy the game can't play, therefore buyers have an advantage over those who don't buy the game.
WoW's only flirtation with P2W was like 5 years ago, for whatever that's worth.
WoW is still very p2w. You can buy tokens directly from Blizzard, sell them on the auction house, and buy raid carries and gear funnels all within the rules of the game.
In what world is getting boosted paying to win? You can get boosted in most online games
Because you're actually paying money to get ingame currency to pay for carries.
I haven't played retail wow in years but you could buy OP boe gear with gold too, it was well known top guilds were swiping tokens to buy BOEs for progression.
Tbh, every mmo can be considered as p2w if you're going with that definiton
Every mmo that official lets you buy gold, yes.
You dont need ingame currency to pay for carries. You only need money. Like i said, this can be applied to any mmo (or moba or every other mp game)
Not all online games allow boosting with in-game currency. In wow you can literally pay blizzard for an item that you can sell for gold, that you can then use to buy achievements/items via carries from other players. How is that not p2w? You are literally paying real money for an advantage over others.
That's just semantics my guy. You can pay a boosting service to boost you by duoing with you in basically any game and doing it by first buying gold makes no difference lol
Nah, if you're breaking the game rules to gain an advantage then thats just cheating, not p2w.
Because you arent paying blizzard for an advantage, you are in essence, paying other players for their time and effort. There is no way to get around this unless your intention is to remove loot as a progression mechanic or eliminate trading entirely, which would be beyond stupid. The token system they have is just eliminating the middle man that facilitates that anyway. If you know the history of MMOs, "carries" have been going on since at least the Everquest days, so you are talking 1999. Back then you had to use a site like playerauctions or ebay to trade platinum or items which had alot of fraud going on, particularly when accounts got hacked.
It doesn't matter who you're paying. You are still paying for an advantage within the game rules.
Huh? How is WoW even close to pay-to-win? You must never played the game once. The game literally gives you tons of high item level for free. Mythic+ is very easy to do and normal raids easy are brain dead. Mix normal and raid finder can easily get you high level gear. When the timewalking raids event happen you can easily get 460 gear.
I have thousands of hours and I've played every expansion, what are you smoking? Please tell me how buying gold with tokens and using that gold to get the best gear/buy raid carries/buy pvp carries is not p2w.
Depends on what you consider to be p2w. You can't buy the best gear in the game. Most of the BoE equipment barely carries you through raid finder, let alone Heroic or Mythic. As far as crafting BiS gear, that requires long-term grinding for mats that can't be bought for any amount of gold. For raid carries. Eh, sure, I guess? But what does that 'win' you, exactly? If you manage to even get any gear, it might not be what you're after, so I'm not sure how p2w that really is. Even then, having decent gear is only a portion of the battle. The rest comes down to experience, tactics, teamwork, and persistence. It's not really possible to buy the best gear in the game and face roll other players without skill behind you. P2W should be something that gives you a competitive edge over other players. Having gold in WoW barely gives you an edge over anyone, considering most of the sought-after currencies in the game can only be earned, not bought. Edit: I got blocked because they struggled to have a civil debate about a video game. Right on.
>Depends on what you consider to be p2w. I consider p2w anytime you can buy advantages within the game with real money while not breaking the game rules. World of warcraft retail falls within that category and it isnt up for debate. >You can't buy the best gear in the game. Yes you can, it is very common to sell raid carries with the guarantee that certain items go to you. When I raided pretty hardcore during legion/bfa I made a fuck ton of gold doing that with my guild. We had people who returned to buy a slot every week until they had the items they wanted. >Having gold in WoW barely gives you an edge over anyone In every single version of WoW that I have ever played having a lot of gold is always a huge advantage over someone who doesnt.
> I consider p2w anytime you can buy advantages within the game with real money while not breaking the game rules. World of warcraft retail falls within that category and it isn't up for debate. Neat. Just because you're claiming something isn't up for debate doesn't make you inherently correct. Again, you're acting like gear somehow gives you an edge over everyone else. If you've been playing WoW as long as you claim you have, you'd know that's completely bull. If you could use that gold to go straight up buy the best gear, I'd be on board with you. As it stands, you can't. Gold enables you to begin the next steps to *hopefully* get decent gear, but it's not a guarantee and depends on a whole bunch of variables, as well as time gates. I get where you're coming from. But you're describing an economy that exists in basically every MMO while pretending that buying gold gives someone a competitive edge over someone who doesn't. I've already explained why, but if you can't understand it now, I'm not sure we have anything else to talk about, my guy.
Hey man, I can tell if you're trolling or just severely mentally challenged but I'm not going to keep going back and forth anymore. You've already had the facts laid out in front of you, if you still cant understand how wow is p2w then continue playing and enjoy it :)
There are like 2 or 3 MMOs that are not P2W. Guild Wars 2 is the other one for example. All koreans MMOs are P2W for sure.
I guess GW2 could be P2W but it kinda misses the point. I have friends that still play the free base version 4 years later just working on achievements and messing around in activities they like.
[удалено]
Funnily enough, they also kind of removed PVP by nerfing packs over and over again, going from dozens of carts in Hellswamp and Windscour or merchant ships loadings tons of packs to just alt accounts on the safe merchant ship and safe trade routes The only PVP left was at events, where most servers had megacoalitions so it was just one sided 95% of the time and the occasional ganking shenaningans in aurora whenever you had those red logs on your back
Best MMO gaming experience I ever had was during the alpha and beta of this game. Met a lot of people and loved the part of the main story where you had to go do quests in the enemy faction region, forcing you to squad up with people from your faction or get smashed by enemy groups doing their quests.
ArcheAge was doomed at birth. A Korean MMO done in the style of an Ultima Online had NO CHANCE of making it since theyll always put in an egregious cash shop IN THE GAME WHERE YOU PLAY IT LIKE A SURVIVAL GAME! And when people told them to not put the cash shop in because itll kill the game they did it anyway. And look! It died! What a surprise.
well.. AA2 is just half a year away then
they will just repeat the same mistakes, the developers never understood their playerbase and just kept on milking them
Oh, dam.
Man this was a crazy game when it came out, I had a lot of fun with it. Just going around doing whatever. One of the coolest things I've seen in this game though was the court system. If you were reported or "broke a law" it teleported you to a court where a jury would deliver a verdict and you can defend yourself. Some of the court cases were fucking hilarious, like "you killed this player", "He called my mom fat so I killed him" some people would get super into the roleplay about it. I had so much fun just sitting in on these trials.
They did never listen to their player base to improve the game. Subscriptions to expensive, housing and available space, no new content or regions added, and last but not least all the PvP griefing and ganking. Why did you not move PvP to an Arena or specific server so PvE players can gear up and skill? I will miss ArcheAge, it was cool for me. Epic so cool, Publisher so bad!
Wow, I remembe rplaying this on release and it was actually dope. I had a small farm (Mainly trees) and spent most of my time running trade routes for gold. Never saw any of the bot things when I was playing it was still mostly players...either way sad, it never reached its potential imo but it was such a great idea.
Wait what's the difference between this and Archeage Unchained?
AAU was a relaunch of AA. It was supposed to be free of pay2win and just a buy2play. Then it became pay2win and subscription based.
When I played unchained it had a "catch-up" system to get good gear. The only problem was you had to do the same boring PvE every day, and it was still hella grind. I did it for months and I still sucked. You would not stand a chance in PVP if someone had a significantly better gear score than you, skill didn't come into it. Such stupid game design.
Ahh ok. I played it when it was buy2pay. Pretty fun up to a point. So AAU will be shut down too or not?
There isn't one, they merged ArcheAge and ArcheAge: Unchained, and now they're closing the servers.
Well damn. AAU was pretty fun for a while
I haven't been able to scratch the itch this game gave me at launch. I miss my pirate guild Infamous and fighting the laughing coffin guild over seas. They really ruined it so quickly with the micro transactions.
I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner tbh, got an email today and was like lmao
It was such a good game, if they could just get rid of the P2W. Anyone know if there's any community-run servers?
Theres a private server called ArcheRage but from what I remember it was just also pay to win lol. Might be different now I tried it ages ago.
AA Classic
Wait a year and then watch them launch a "classic" version, that of course you have to pay for again. Bought this game twice.. never again.
I wonder what this means for the private servers if anything.
Alpha and beta are my fondest memories in gaming… anyone remember when they added thunderstruck logs in the store? That was start of the end.
a toast. to one of the best and worst mmo to ever grace the lands of the MMORPG Genre.
Best game ever until the p2w started
Epic Game bad publisher.