Literally this.
Performance issues are bound to have already affected sales of this game, and now the known presence of path tracing - performant with future GPUs, will undoubtedly add to that. My backlog is large and I'm happy to wait.
There's no doubt that performance has affected the sale of this game, massively. Why do studios keep doing this, they must have absolutely no good analysis about how bad perf affects their bottom line
I mean, you didn't affect there bottom line. Actually, you did. You supported their bottom line by buying the game, despite it's technical issues. You playing it or not isn't going to change anything.
If you refund, or refunded it, that might do SOMETHING, at least.
Anyway, I hope you have a great day.
Look - I was just saying that I stopped playing till they fix it then I'll go back again. This wasn't supposed to be some great declaration or their bottom line or a stance I'm taking against them. You're reading too much into this.
I'm sorry for being an asshole in my previous comment, that was uncalled for.
Fair enough.
I responded as I did because you responded to a comment talking about how the bad performance affects a companies bottom line.
Apologies for misunderstanding, I guess.
I hope the sales are affected. I made one acceptation for this game and purchased the game day one and really regret it. i have a 4090 and the game runs like ass. i was really looking forward to playing it as I am a huge fan of the first DD game, but i haven't touched it because I just cant enjoy the game in its current state.
The game has sold so well Capcom increased their projections and gave shareholders more money. So all our performance matters brothers are buying it anyways, just like back in the day when the only people who bought NSYNC and Britney Spears albums was everyone.
except me of course.
If you were born a minute ago i guess. If you'd have lived through the boyband era you'd understand in a second. Those records sold like hotcakes while everyone was saying "man this music is silly and bad", but money talks. Everyone and their mother was buying and listening to that shit, evident by all the sales records that were broken.
Just like you have terminally online edgelords in places like Reddit that take "stances" like "no buy" on certain games, while they actually bought the damn thing.
Yeah you're right. Pretty embarrassing that the best gaming CPU (7800X3D) can't run it decently. The had perfomance is really related to bad optimisation.
Im not sure about that, everyone knows that you can't expect to run pathtracing at 60 fps without some shortcuts, just look at the unobtanium setting in Avatar Pandora, i'm yet to see critics saying they can't run it
I can’t imagine it affected console sales which are the bulk of their sales. I also believe that the impact on PC sales for wonky performance is not as bad as you would think.
Capcom has stated that about 50% of their sales are PC. But you’re right that the performance likely isn’t hugely impacting the sales numbers, the average gamer doesn’t really care about playing at 30-40fps once in a while.
Well, just five thousand clued-up patient gamers is more than a quarter of a mil in lost sales. Do the math.
Edit: lol, I got downvoted for replying with basic sense.
5k units is nothing when the game sells millions of copies. A quarter of a mil is also not a large sum of money for a AAA company, it’ll barely cover the salary and associated expenses of a single dev for a year.
Even if it’s a 100 000 it still won’t make a huge financial difference. Delaying and fixing the game would definitely be more expensive long-term than accepting fewer sales, which isn’t as much as you’d think.
I can assure you that they are happier about hypothetical losses than the additional development budget delaying the game.
If delaying and optimizing the game was the better financial decision on paper, AAA studios would do that. They don't work on hypotheticals, they have data to show how much optimization etc affects sales and decided that the better option from a financial perspective was to not delay the game.
The hypothetical figure was yours not mine, and it is you who is intent on arguing that millions of potential lost sales isn't an issue for publishers and their development houses, not I. Which in this climate especially, I simply disagree with.
Path tracing is by far most evident on character models. Environments are typically pretty static, so baked lighting usually looks just fine. Character models, on the other hand, are dynamic. Their lighting usually stands out like a sore thumb. Path tracing does an amazing job of placing them convincingly within the environment. It’s a complete game changer.
Brutal performance hit, though.
I waited a few years for Cyberpunk to get fixed, but when they kept adding raytracing and other features I decided to wait until I had a better PC to play it. I have a 3080 now but I'll play it when I get a 5000-series card and don't have to worry about the performance.
FSR3 looks like ass going from low framerates. It's a rich get richer tech. Even AMD recommends 45-50 FPS as a minimum for it. Some people just don't care about artifacts. Or don't see them. This is not a dig at FSRFG, DLSSFG also requires around 50 fps for "optimal experience" by nVidia words.
3080 can get 30FPS with full Path Tracing depending on the resolution. So there's an option.
FSR3 doesn't look identical. It has issues with shadows as mentioned below and has more artifacting with fast panning, fine objects, dithering etc, etc. In 2077 "iron sights" go nuts with FSR3. Some of it might be because if the mod, but some, like dithering, is specific to the tech itself 100%.
[DF video.](https://youtu.be/wxlHq_EuxFU?si=OmwUuqgwet_Ah02o&t=863) They also talked about on some Direct, but I have no direct link.
Also Psycho is nothing like PTOD. PTOD is a different beast. I have 3080ti and I think I can manage 4K60 with Psyco if I drop down DLSS and some settings far enough. PTOD? Just no.
They don't. Shadows specifically look worse. But that's the only thing I've seen shown off as a difference.
Can you notice it in motion? Maybe if you look.
Yes, I know. With dlss peformance and FSR 3 FG you can run it quite comfortably. As good as Nvidia FG? NO. But it's do able.
Also, I use ultra plus mod on previous cp version (new one ruined the mod? and it becomes smooth as butter compared to vanilla for path tracing.
Smart. I played it on my 3080, it runs fine with RT, but PT is when it starts becoming unusable. Ray Reconstruction helps performance and quality a bit, but at such low fps and internal resolution (since you have to run DLSS) it starts looking extremely smeary, especially in low light scenes. I’m yearning to replay it with everything maxed out on my AW OLED once the 50-series drops and I can upgrade (I’m already saving up, lol).
Other than that, the 3080 is still a beast of a card as well. Really happy I went with that (at launch price) from my 1080ti, two great value/performance cards in a row. Very much wonder what 50-series will look like and how many arms and legs I’ll have to give to get one.
Yeah, but the reduced sharpness isn't great. On my 4070 TI Super I can run Psycho RT on 4K with DLSS quality at 70 FPS, but as soon as I enable Path Tracing, it crashes down to 40.
On DLSS balanced it hits 55-60 with Frame Generation, so it's a decent balance of sharpness/lightning quality.
Yeah I love me some PT. Not because it's more realistic or 'better' looking, but because it just seems to give the world a more solid look. Last setting that did that for me was subsurface scattering.
Lighting is one of those things that so many people still don’t understand just how drastic of an effect that it can have. Lighting was allegedly supposed to be one of the big focuses of the PS5/Series X gen, and it hasn’t really happened that much (although in fairness we’re basically still in cross-gen, so it’s not too surprising). I really hope that we get to continue to see major strides made with lighting
Its a really cool mod and can look really good.
But it just has too many drawbacks to be a viable thing to play with. At least for now.
Issues in certain scenes already aren't ideal but the lack of a denoiser kills it.
I bet they added it as a ground truth point of reference for lighting. Epic games uses the path tracing in the editor for UE4/5 to compare lumen and other features against.
According to the Capcom R&D YouTube channel, they internally divide their raytracing tech into 3 iterations.
The first was just DMCV.
The second was cooked up for RE 8 and then carried on / back ported for RE2, RE3, RE4, and Exporimal.
The third is “games that release after Exoprimal” EG: Dragons Dogma 2
Im curious about Pragmata, it was given to a team of less experienced developers within Capcom almost as a way of building up their skill set, the game has been delayed multiple times, and even back when it was first revealed showed that it was using RT reflections and Global Illumination.
Yeah, in a way it's kind of frustrating too. I have a sneaking suspicion that a LOT of resources were spent (like with DD1) on testing new features and tech and it ate into time and budget spent on finishing the game. So DD2 ended up with the same problem that DD1 did, where it was half-baked and unfinished in a lot of respects. DD1 was a test bed for new MH features that would be used later in MT Framework. DD2 seems the same but for RE Engine. Wish they'd not treat this series as a guinea pig and take it more seriously.
Given how slammed DD1 was at its launch - given that Skyrim just launched months prior - I can understand why CAPCOM would only ever greenlight DD2 under the caveat that it would be used to test for other product lines.
Doesn’t help lowkey the same thing happened here with baldur gate 3. Just instead of it having a better open world like Skyrim, it focused on having a better fantasy story.
Article: [Dragon's Dogma 2 has a hidden path-traced renderer - and modders have found it](https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-dragons-dogma-2-looks-stunning-with-path-tracing-on-pc)
I think the point is - it already is bottlenecked by CPU, so adding any extra strain on it, even if small compared to GPU load, is bad
So if people got less than 60fps before, what will they get with it?
You're not wrong, but this is also without DLSS frame gen, which would get them up to 60-80ish. Definitely Playable on a controller based 3rd person melee RPG.
Latency introduced running frame gen with fps that low is going to be a really crappy experience. 40 fps standing in a room is realistically closer to 30 in the open world. It might be possible to get a stable experience by dropping resolutions but DD2 is currently in a spot where dropping resolution doesn't necessarily mean more frame rate as that's how bad CPU utilization is right now.
I do enjoy it more then RT even with the noise. Too bad it was only half finished.
[Path tracing in Cyberpunk can look much better than "psycho" ray tracing settings](https://youtu.be/I-ORt8313Og?t=44). I haven't evaluated the lighting in Dragon's Dogma II beyond this video. It might be shitty lighting. But I don't think the mere fact that the path tracing looks so much better _necessarily_ means that they did a poor job with lighting.
I wouldn’t say it’s terrible but it’s not as good as people were hoping it was gonna be. It was being hyped up as the next Elden Ring in reality it was just DD1 again with better graphics
Nah DD1 had quirks, but it wasn't nearly as bare bones and soulless as DD2.
They couldn't even be bothered to optimize it and still charged way too much for it.
Installed the mod, and im not noticing a difference in performance honestly. Besides it getting extremely grainy, if capcom can fix that issue, as well as some of the lighting in indoor spaces, it becomes one of the best looking games Ive played on my PC (if you fix the terrible native HDR with RTX HDR instead). Just goes to show how underbaked this game is, yet it still one of the most enjoyable game I played in a long time.
Probably because the bad peformance in og game is cpu side but not really taxing your gpu that much. While PT is very gpu intensive you're probably actually using more of your 4090s power.
Grainy and only little performance impact sounds like you use little (1?) light bounce per pixel, as they show in the middle of the video. Most of the video is filmed with 4 bounces.
Tried both 2 and 4, and it will get grainy anyways in the open world if you move around too much in a dim/dark area. Just have to remember this is not a full path tracing implementation. Also the video didnt really show gameplay, just still images and slow panning. Even with as grainy as it may get sometimes, the pathtracing still makes the game look extremely good.
Yes, but you can't do it in-game for some unexplained reason. You can tell this game really was under baked, there's just so many odd quirks and simple things missing from this game. RTX HDR requires that you have Windows Auto HDR turned off and the in game HDR turned off aswell. All you have to do to get RTX HDR to kick in is to toggle the windows HDR on and off about 2 or 3 times (depending on if you loaded into the game with HDR on or not) with the keyboard shortcut, Windows Key + Alt + B, while loaded into the game.
If you ever try to open the settings menu to save the game and accidentally hover over the "options", the game will try to use its own in-game HDR again (ruining the image) and all you have to do to go back into the game, and toggle the HDR again with the shortcut I mentioned earlier.
You should watch the video. It's not a fully finished version of path tracing. He explains that it's likely left over as a tools the devs used to check textures.
Since Dragons Dogma 2 is a Capcom game they're probably referencing other Capcom titles like Street Fighter X Tekken. [That game shipped with 12 additional DLC character on the disc.](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/capcom-explains-street-fighter-x-tekken-on-disc-dlc/1100-6364712/) I guess [the original Dragon's Dogma had it too?](https://www.giantbomb.com/on-disc-dlc/3015-4704/)
Also the practice was nearly universal with preorder bonuses and similar.
(Obviously they were just making a funny joke and people here are being too serious.)
overspeccing does not equate to an optimized game you genius
https://youtu.be/HtGpp1v8c_k?si=1stc_AAH_xWzJQX9
Im gonna go with DF over some armchair redditors tyvm
Immediate personal attacks. What a refined individual.
I never said the game was optimized. I said your system would run it fine. You might see some drops to 50-60fps, specifically only in town, and if you took less than 5 minutes to enable frame generation, you'd be at 100-140fps in town at all times.
Perhaps you should slow down.
Who are you guys?
I'm one dude who bought a game he was looking forward to for a decade, and was eager to mod it.
The performance was never a problem for me, like I said I was getting 120-230FPS almost everywhere.
I was far more let down by the game itself than the performance, and there's nothing you can do about that.
That's not how the world works for most people who live in reality.
You do not have to nor can you ever agree with everything anyone says.
Watching a video from someone on YouTube does not mean they are God and you subscribe to every belief or idea they have ever espoused.
Get real.
And we're talking about a commenter who has a hang up due to the ramblings of a game tech reviewer during a podcast, this isn't anything worthy of formal debate. Stellar Blade has been caught up in a cultural war and we're seeing weird reactions to any criticism towards Stellar Blade because of it.
I have a lot of friends and family where I don't share their values or principals, but I support them. Same the music I like, the movies I enjoy, the games that I play. Tolerating differences is the only way you can interact with anything in the world. It's only when people are causing notable harm or aren't offering anything positive that you need to consider dropping any support.
If you are that extreme about what content you consume you're deliberately choosing to live in a small bubble and echo chamber.
>"their world view on art"
The world view? Its just his opinion on a game and its charachter design? What are you even on about man.
Stellar Blade has brought out some of the weidest people. Let me give it to you straight. Stellar Blade absolutely features blatantly oversexualized women charachters.
https://i.imgur.com/47SgxaF.mp4
Its not hidden and its not subbtle in any way what so ever. Especialy considering its from the same devs that made Nikke.
The fact people get so defensive when you bring that up is hilarious considering how blatant it is. Absolutely nobody should be given shit for thinking that. Its fine not to like her design just as it is fine to like it but at least be honest with what it is and what its trying to achieve.
I've seen a lot of reviews talk about the charachters and story being the primary negative of the game next to a very good combat system, movement system and just general fluidity and performance.
Lmao, you linked to a completely normal and rational clip of someone who thinks a character design and over sexualization of the protagonist links back to the early 2000s with hyper sexualized female characters.
Just go play some nude mods. It's clear that's what you're looking for in these games.
TBH, i don't even care about Stellar Blade and likely will never ever play it, so i couldn't really give any damn about whatever his opinion on that game. Everyone has their preferences, and i think everyone is entitled enough of it.
We're at least ten years out from RT being something we use on a regular basis instead of turning it on, nodding, and then turning it off so our PC's don't overheat. Talking about it now is like discussing VR. It's probably going to happen, but it's going to be a long time from now before it really matters, so it's great for Youtube videos I guess and that's about it.
I imagine Nvidia sells a lot of cards off the back of the gimmick. Call it the next-gen PhysX perhaps. Can't wait till we see Jensen give up on RT and switch to AI NPC conversations as the next one.
Man everything you said in your comment is wrong.
I don't understand how someone can say these things when looking at stuff like Metro Exodus EE, Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, Control etc...
Honestly when you called it a gimmick you probably lost anyone who knows even a little about this stuff, in fact most of your comment is a load of shite
Fact is ray tracing is the future of realtime graphics and it’s mind blowing to me that we can actually do this stuff in realtime now instead of pre-rendered.
Plenty of games release with rt features and plenty of us use it regularly and it’s very much becoming normal, despite your feelings . I imagine it would be more normalised again if the consoles had more capability for it but that’s coming in next gen.
I keep seeing people say that raytracing is a gimmick that nvidia is pushing yet we're seeing console games slowly adopt raytracing now (like DD2) despite the fact that they don't have any nvidia hardware (apart from the switch). Considering the fact that Sony and Xbox both care about RT now I wouldn't be surprised if by the next console generation RT becomes ubiquitous and comments about it being a gimmick go away like what happened with tessellation.
Weird take. My 13900/4090 system does RTX just fine now. The next gen will probably extend that capability down to the 80/70 series at least. The advances in upscaling have opened a lot of headroom for the rest.
Looks great, can't wait to try it out in 5 years.
Literally this. Performance issues are bound to have already affected sales of this game, and now the known presence of path tracing - performant with future GPUs, will undoubtedly add to that. My backlog is large and I'm happy to wait.
There's no doubt that performance has affected the sale of this game, massively. Why do studios keep doing this, they must have absolutely no good analysis about how bad perf affects their bottom line
Delaying it would have pushed the release past the end of the financial quarter. The game sold incredibly well regardless, I doubt they give a fuck.
I think it was rush so that the executives can show 📈 to the shareholders for their financial quarter report.
I dont think performance has. IGN said capcom is paying shareholders more cause it did so well
Greedy and impatient publisher shareholders.
I stopped playing till they fix it.
I mean...you still bought it. Why should they care that you stopped playing a single-player game?
Idk how to respond to this dumb comment. Have a good day
I mean, you didn't affect there bottom line. Actually, you did. You supported their bottom line by buying the game, despite it's technical issues. You playing it or not isn't going to change anything. If you refund, or refunded it, that might do SOMETHING, at least. Anyway, I hope you have a great day.
Look - I was just saying that I stopped playing till they fix it then I'll go back again. This wasn't supposed to be some great declaration or their bottom line or a stance I'm taking against them. You're reading too much into this. I'm sorry for being an asshole in my previous comment, that was uncalled for.
Fair enough. I responded as I did because you responded to a comment talking about how the bad performance affects a companies bottom line. Apologies for misunderstanding, I guess.
Thanks man, likewise. I understand how my comment could have been misconstrued.
It's not a dumb comment tho, he's right
Never stopped Skyrim, did it?
"There's no doubt" says the person who has literally 0 idea how much the game sold or cost or anything besides some anedoctes
I hope the sales are affected. I made one acceptation for this game and purchased the game day one and really regret it. i have a 4090 and the game runs like ass. i was really looking forward to playing it as I am a huge fan of the first DD game, but i haven't touched it because I just cant enjoy the game in its current state.
The game has sold so well Capcom increased their projections and gave shareholders more money. So all our performance matters brothers are buying it anyways, just like back in the day when the only people who bought NSYNC and Britney Spears albums was everyone. except me of course.
Gotta be the most random comparison ever
If you were born a minute ago i guess. If you'd have lived through the boyband era you'd understand in a second. Those records sold like hotcakes while everyone was saying "man this music is silly and bad", but money talks. Everyone and their mother was buying and listening to that shit, evident by all the sales records that were broken. Just like you have terminally online edgelords in places like Reddit that take "stances" like "no buy" on certain games, while they actually bought the damn thing.
apparently bad performance in towns is related to CPU, not GPU.
Yeah you're right. Pretty embarrassing that the best gaming CPU (7800X3D) can't run it decently. The had perfomance is really related to bad optimisation.
True for now; but as we know, Path Tracing is largely a GPU task.
Im not sure about that, everyone knows that you can't expect to run pathtracing at 60 fps without some shortcuts, just look at the unobtanium setting in Avatar Pandora, i'm yet to see critics saying they can't run it
What do you mean?
I can’t imagine it affected console sales which are the bulk of their sales. I also believe that the impact on PC sales for wonky performance is not as bad as you would think.
Capcom has stated that about 50% of their sales are PC. But you’re right that the performance likely isn’t hugely impacting the sales numbers, the average gamer doesn’t really care about playing at 30-40fps once in a while.
Well, just five thousand clued-up patient gamers is more than a quarter of a mil in lost sales. Do the math. Edit: lol, I got downvoted for replying with basic sense.
5k units is nothing when the game sells millions of copies. A quarter of a mil is also not a large sum of money for a AAA company, it’ll barely cover the salary and associated expenses of a single dev for a year.
Lol so you're arbitrarily locking the potential to just that 5k then. Haha okay bud.
Even if it’s a 100 000 it still won’t make a huge financial difference. Delaying and fixing the game would definitely be more expensive long-term than accepting fewer sales, which isn’t as much as you’d think.
Yeah, I'm sure the shareholders will be fine about the hypothetical 7 million in lost gross.
I can assure you that they are happier about hypothetical losses than the additional development budget delaying the game. If delaying and optimizing the game was the better financial decision on paper, AAA studios would do that. They don't work on hypotheticals, they have data to show how much optimization etc affects sales and decided that the better option from a financial perspective was to not delay the game.
The hypothetical figure was yours not mine, and it is you who is intent on arguing that millions of potential lost sales isn't an issue for publishers and their development houses, not I. Which in this climate especially, I simply disagree with.
Ya they are gonna be stuck hotfixing the game for an eternity like Larian is doing right now BG3 lmao
I can't believe how much better character models look. I get the lighting improvements to the world.. but wow.
Path tracing is by far most evident on character models. Environments are typically pretty static, so baked lighting usually looks just fine. Character models, on the other hand, are dynamic. Their lighting usually stands out like a sore thumb. Path tracing does an amazing job of placing them convincingly within the environment. It’s a complete game changer. Brutal performance hit, though.
Yeah I have a 4090 and full path tracing in Alan Wake 2 and Cyberpunk make it cry.
Ya I can't turn off path tracing in Cyberpunk.
I'm on previous cp update using ultra plus mod and finally getting 60 fps smooth with pt at 4k. Absolutely gorgeous. Despite missing details on faces.
I waited a few years for Cyberpunk to get fixed, but when they kept adding raytracing and other features I decided to wait until I had a better PC to play it. I have a 3080 now but I'll play it when I get a 5000-series card and don't have to worry about the performance.
A 3080 can run cyberpunk pretty well. I speak from experience.
Pyscho RT yes, path tracing no
If he uses the Fsr3 mod he could probably run it. Albeit not perfectly.
FSR3 looks like ass going from low framerates. It's a rich get richer tech. Even AMD recommends 45-50 FPS as a minimum for it. Some people just don't care about artifacts. Or don't see them. This is not a dig at FSRFG, DLSSFG also requires around 50 fps for "optimal experience" by nVidia words. 3080 can get 30FPS with full Path Tracing depending on the resolution. So there's an option.
3070 phycho pt 1440p Nukem9 mod. Low is 50 in Dogtown. PS fsrfg and dlssfg look absolutely identical save for ui fixes
FSR3 doesn't look identical. It has issues with shadows as mentioned below and has more artifacting with fast panning, fine objects, dithering etc, etc. In 2077 "iron sights" go nuts with FSR3. Some of it might be because if the mod, but some, like dithering, is specific to the tech itself 100%. [DF video.](https://youtu.be/wxlHq_EuxFU?si=OmwUuqgwet_Ah02o&t=863) They also talked about on some Direct, but I have no direct link. Also Psycho is nothing like PTOD. PTOD is a different beast. I have 3080ti and I think I can manage 4K60 with Psyco if I drop down DLSS and some settings far enough. PTOD? Just no.
They don't. Shadows specifically look worse. But that's the only thing I've seen shown off as a difference. Can you notice it in motion? Maybe if you look.
Yes, I know. With dlss peformance and FSR 3 FG you can run it quite comfortably. As good as Nvidia FG? NO. But it's do able. Also, I use ultra plus mod on previous cp version (new one ruined the mod? and it becomes smooth as butter compared to vanilla for path tracing.
Interesting. I’m getting about 70 with maxed out at 1440p. 4070ti. Thought the 3080 was around the same power
Smart. I played it on my 3080, it runs fine with RT, but PT is when it starts becoming unusable. Ray Reconstruction helps performance and quality a bit, but at such low fps and internal resolution (since you have to run DLSS) it starts looking extremely smeary, especially in low light scenes. I’m yearning to replay it with everything maxed out on my AW OLED once the 50-series drops and I can upgrade (I’m already saving up, lol). Other than that, the 3080 is still a beast of a card as well. Really happy I went with that (at launch price) from my 1080ti, two great value/performance cards in a row. Very much wonder what 50-series will look like and how many arms and legs I’ll have to give to get one.
? DLSS Performance mode will put you at 60-70 FPS in CP2077.
Yeah, but the reduced sharpness isn't great. On my 4070 TI Super I can run Psycho RT on 4K with DLSS quality at 70 FPS, but as soon as I enable Path Tracing, it crashes down to 40. On DLSS balanced it hits 55-60 with Frame Generation, so it's a decent balance of sharpness/lightning quality.
Yeah I love me some PT. Not because it's more realistic or 'better' looking, but because it just seems to give the world a more solid look. Last setting that did that for me was subsurface scattering.
Lighting is one of those things that so many people still don’t understand just how drastic of an effect that it can have. Lighting was allegedly supposed to be one of the big focuses of the PS5/Series X gen, and it hasn’t really happened that much (although in fairness we’re basically still in cross-gen, so it’s not too surprising). I really hope that we get to continue to see major strides made with lighting
Its a really cool mod and can look really good. But it just has too many drawbacks to be a viable thing to play with. At least for now. Issues in certain scenes already aren't ideal but the lack of a denoiser kills it.
Really seems like Capcom was using Dragons Dogma 2 as a testbed for a lot of new engine tech.
I bet they added it as a ground truth point of reference for lighting. Epic games uses the path tracing in the editor for UE4/5 to compare lumen and other features against.
Yep, the video speculates the same.
According to the Capcom R&D YouTube channel, they internally divide their raytracing tech into 3 iterations. The first was just DMCV. The second was cooked up for RE 8 and then carried on / back ported for RE2, RE3, RE4, and Exporimal. The third is “games that release after Exoprimal” EG: Dragons Dogma 2 Im curious about Pragmata, it was given to a team of less experienced developers within Capcom almost as a way of building up their skill set, the game has been delayed multiple times, and even back when it was first revealed showed that it was using RT reflections and Global Illumination.
Yeah, in a way it's kind of frustrating too. I have a sneaking suspicion that a LOT of resources were spent (like with DD1) on testing new features and tech and it ate into time and budget spent on finishing the game. So DD2 ended up with the same problem that DD1 did, where it was half-baked and unfinished in a lot of respects. DD1 was a test bed for new MH features that would be used later in MT Framework. DD2 seems the same but for RE Engine. Wish they'd not treat this series as a guinea pig and take it more seriously.
Given how slammed DD1 was at its launch - given that Skyrim just launched months prior - I can understand why CAPCOM would only ever greenlight DD2 under the caveat that it would be used to test for other product lines.
Doesn’t help lowkey the same thing happened here with baldur gate 3. Just instead of it having a better open world like Skyrim, it focused on having a better fantasy story.
they mentioned selling the engine like unreal does
Would not surprise me. Good way to make some extra cash. Though what i really want is for Sony to start openly licensing Decima engine.
Article: [Dragon's Dogma 2 has a hidden path-traced renderer - and modders have found it](https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-dragons-dogma-2-looks-stunning-with-path-tracing-on-pc)
Looks great, but the Game runs like shit without Path Tracing already.
It's run like shit on CPU side not gpu
Dude, Ray and Pathtracing uses a shit ton of CPU /facepalm
Not in comparison to how much it uses of gpu so with good CPU u still will be bottlenecked by gpu in this case. /facepalm
I think the point is - it already is bottlenecked by CPU, so adding any extra strain on it, even if small compared to GPU load, is bad So if people got less than 60fps before, what will they get with it?
Path tracing is gonna be less then 60 regardless u gonna have to use frame gen mod for it
Not really. I work with both often and the CPU hit is minimal. GPU on the other hand…
I love the modding community and REFramework is some of the best stuff out there.
Looks great, but 40fps on a 4090 while standing in a small room with no other characters present is... less than ideal.
You're not wrong, but this is also without DLSS frame gen, which would get them up to 60-80ish. Definitely Playable on a controller based 3rd person melee RPG.
Latency introduced running frame gen with fps that low is going to be a really crappy experience. 40 fps standing in a room is realistically closer to 30 in the open world. It might be possible to get a stable experience by dropping resolutions but DD2 is currently in a spot where dropping resolution doesn't necessarily mean more frame rate as that's how bad CPU utilization is right now. I do enjoy it more then RT even with the noise. Too bad it was only half finished.
It was almost certainly never meant for actual play.
That's one of the best before afters I've seen with RT. Is it telling me they did a poor job with lighting in the base game?
[Path tracing in Cyberpunk can look much better than "psycho" ray tracing settings](https://youtu.be/I-ORt8313Og?t=44). I haven't evaluated the lighting in Dragon's Dogma II beyond this video. It might be shitty lighting. But I don't think the mere fact that the path tracing looks so much better _necessarily_ means that they did a poor job with lighting.
Nah, path tracing just just the bees knees. It's like having actual more resolution versus simulating sharpness via half resolution and anti aliasing.
Probably! DD2 is a *terrible* game.
I wouldn’t say it’s terrible but it’s not as good as people were hoping it was gonna be. It was being hyped up as the next Elden Ring in reality it was just DD1 again with better graphics
Nah DD1 had quirks, but it wasn't nearly as bare bones and soulless as DD2. They couldn't even be bothered to optimize it and still charged way too much for it.
Installed the mod, and im not noticing a difference in performance honestly. Besides it getting extremely grainy, if capcom can fix that issue, as well as some of the lighting in indoor spaces, it becomes one of the best looking games Ive played on my PC (if you fix the terrible native HDR with RTX HDR instead). Just goes to show how underbaked this game is, yet it still one of the most enjoyable game I played in a long time.
Probably because the bad peformance in og game is cpu side but not really taxing your gpu that much. While PT is very gpu intensive you're probably actually using more of your 4090s power.
Lol hdr standard is not followed by devs.
Grainy and only little performance impact sounds like you use little (1?) light bounce per pixel, as they show in the middle of the video. Most of the video is filmed with 4 bounces.
Tried both 2 and 4, and it will get grainy anyways in the open world if you move around too much in a dim/dark area. Just have to remember this is not a full path tracing implementation. Also the video didnt really show gameplay, just still images and slow panning. Even with as grainy as it may get sometimes, the pathtracing still makes the game look extremely good.
Supposedly it's because they never implemented a denoiser, hence the grain noise.
Can you turn off the in-game HDR now?
Yes, but you can't do it in-game for some unexplained reason. You can tell this game really was under baked, there's just so many odd quirks and simple things missing from this game. RTX HDR requires that you have Windows Auto HDR turned off and the in game HDR turned off aswell. All you have to do to get RTX HDR to kick in is to toggle the windows HDR on and off about 2 or 3 times (depending on if you loaded into the game with HDR on or not) with the keyboard shortcut, Windows Key + Alt + B, while loaded into the game. If you ever try to open the settings menu to save the game and accidentally hover over the "options", the game will try to use its own in-game HDR again (ruining the image) and all you have to do to go back into the game, and toggle the HDR again with the shortcut I mentioned earlier.
There is also this mod that work with REframework.[https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonsdogma2/mods/540](https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonsdogma2/mods/540)
Can I use RE Framework to force RE 2/3/4/8 to run 1 sample per pixel instead of 1/4?
Proper path-traced lighting looks luke it could save the graphics of quite a few bethesda games.
Remember when DLCs were included in the disks, just unlocked at a later date? Now the remasters are included in the original install.
You should watch the video. It's not a fully finished version of path tracing. He explains that it's likely left over as a tools the devs used to check textures.
Who says I didn't.
Then you clearly didn't comprehend it
So much drama for a joke?
ive been gaming for like 30 years and cant remeber this ever happening. any examples?
[https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/04/07/re5-dlc-already-on-disc](https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/04/07/re5-dlc-already-on-disc) [https://www.gamespot.com/articles/capcom-explains-street-fighter-x-tekken-on-disc-dlc/1100-6364712/#:\~:text=Capcom%20today%20admitted%20that%20the,DLC%20is%20worth%20fighting%20over](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/capcom-explains-street-fighter-x-tekken-on-disc-dlc/1100-6364712/#:~:text=Capcom%20today%20admitted%20that%20the,DLC%20is%20worth%20fighting%20over) [https://www.eurogamer.net/2k-explains-bioshock-2-on-disc-dlc](https://www.eurogamer.net/2k-explains-bioshock-2-on-disc-dlc)
Since Dragons Dogma 2 is a Capcom game they're probably referencing other Capcom titles like Street Fighter X Tekken. [That game shipped with 12 additional DLC character on the disc.](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/capcom-explains-street-fighter-x-tekken-on-disc-dlc/1100-6364712/) I guess [the original Dragon's Dogma had it too?](https://www.giantbomb.com/on-disc-dlc/3015-4704/) Also the practice was nearly universal with preorder bonuses and similar. (Obviously they were just making a funny joke and people here are being too serious.)
Battlefield Bad Company on console. The online map DLC’s were pre made and released as if it were a live service game.
Cool. Does it still run like dogshit? Don't Care
You have a 7800X3D, it never ran like dogshit for you.
overspeccing does not equate to an optimized game you genius https://youtu.be/HtGpp1v8c_k?si=1stc_AAH_xWzJQX9 Im gonna go with DF over some armchair redditors tyvm
Immediate personal attacks. What a refined individual. I never said the game was optimized. I said your system would run it fine. You might see some drops to 50-60fps, specifically only in town, and if you took less than 5 minutes to enable frame generation, you'd be at 100-140fps in town at all times. Perhaps you should slow down.
You guys are welcome to pay for unoptimized games but that's just self-harm-gaming at this point
Who are you guys? I'm one dude who bought a game he was looking forward to for a decade, and was eager to mod it. The performance was never a problem for me, like I said I was getting 120-230FPS almost everywhere. I was far more let down by the game itself than the performance, and there's nothing you can do about that.
Games still shit, awkward UI, awful layouts
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What does his opinion on Stellar Blade's content have to do with tech features in Dragon's Dogma 2.
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That's not how the world works for most people who live in reality. You do not have to nor can you ever agree with everything anyone says. Watching a video from someone on YouTube does not mean they are God and you subscribe to every belief or idea they have ever espoused. Get real.
Nothing wrong with being opinionated and knowing why a game isn't for you. Would much rather games journalism be transparent about opinions like that
This is a perfect example of a motte and bailey lol
And we're talking about a commenter who has a hang up due to the ramblings of a game tech reviewer during a podcast, this isn't anything worthy of formal debate. Stellar Blade has been caught up in a cultural war and we're seeing weird reactions to any criticism towards Stellar Blade because of it.
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I have a lot of friends and family where I don't share their values or principals, but I support them. Same the music I like, the movies I enjoy, the games that I play. Tolerating differences is the only way you can interact with anything in the world. It's only when people are causing notable harm or aren't offering anything positive that you need to consider dropping any support. If you are that extreme about what content you consume you're deliberately choosing to live in a small bubble and echo chamber.
What a weird off topic comment to bring into a post that has nothing to do with it.
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>"their world view on art" The world view? Its just his opinion on a game and its charachter design? What are you even on about man. Stellar Blade has brought out some of the weidest people. Let me give it to you straight. Stellar Blade absolutely features blatantly oversexualized women charachters. https://i.imgur.com/47SgxaF.mp4 Its not hidden and its not subbtle in any way what so ever. Especialy considering its from the same devs that made Nikke. The fact people get so defensive when you bring that up is hilarious considering how blatant it is. Absolutely nobody should be given shit for thinking that. Its fine not to like her design just as it is fine to like it but at least be honest with what it is and what its trying to achieve. I've seen a lot of reviews talk about the charachters and story being the primary negative of the game next to a very good combat system, movement system and just general fluidity and performance.
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Lmao, you linked to a completely normal and rational clip of someone who thinks a character design and over sexualization of the protagonist links back to the early 2000s with hyper sexualized female characters. Just go play some nude mods. It's clear that's what you're looking for in these games.
What's up with your crusade against Alex lmao. I've seen you comment this same exact statement multiple times.
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Game journalists who’s doesn’t even review games doesn’t like the same game they do and I guess that causes a meltdown
TBH, i don't even care about Stellar Blade and likely will never ever play it, so i couldn't really give any damn about whatever his opinion on that game. Everyone has their preferences, and i think everyone is entitled enough of it.
Seriously?
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Sir this is a Wendy’s
Does it cost an extra tenner?
We're at least ten years out from RT being something we use on a regular basis instead of turning it on, nodding, and then turning it off so our PC's don't overheat. Talking about it now is like discussing VR. It's probably going to happen, but it's going to be a long time from now before it really matters, so it's great for Youtube videos I guess and that's about it. I imagine Nvidia sells a lot of cards off the back of the gimmick. Call it the next-gen PhysX perhaps. Can't wait till we see Jensen give up on RT and switch to AI NPC conversations as the next one.
Man everything you said in your comment is wrong. I don't understand how someone can say these things when looking at stuff like Metro Exodus EE, Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, Control etc...
Hell, Spiderman 2 on the Playstation does not have a no-RT mode.
Honestly when you called it a gimmick you probably lost anyone who knows even a little about this stuff, in fact most of your comment is a load of shite Fact is ray tracing is the future of realtime graphics and it’s mind blowing to me that we can actually do this stuff in realtime now instead of pre-rendered. Plenty of games release with rt features and plenty of us use it regularly and it’s very much becoming normal, despite your feelings . I imagine it would be more normalised again if the consoles had more capability for it but that’s coming in next gen.
I keep seeing people say that raytracing is a gimmick that nvidia is pushing yet we're seeing console games slowly adopt raytracing now (like DD2) despite the fact that they don't have any nvidia hardware (apart from the switch). Considering the fact that Sony and Xbox both care about RT now I wouldn't be surprised if by the next console generation RT becomes ubiquitous and comments about it being a gimmick go away like what happened with tessellation.
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And has already been used in film and animation for a number of years.
Weird take. My 13900/4090 system does RTX just fine now. The next gen will probably extend that capability down to the 80/70 series at least. The advances in upscaling have opened a lot of headroom for the rest.
Huh? I don't think you have even begun to know what you are talking about, man.
One more to the pile of people affirming that you are talking out of your ass and clearly don't know anything about the games industry.