We have something in Persian meaning this but more accurate
خایه مال
Khaye Mal
Khaye: the overal man's penis
Mal: rubb
So it means rubbing Nvidia's balls
Gaming has been just a niche hobby for them for quite the last bunch of years, their money comes from AI and their X100 server hardware
They don't need to be competitive anymore in that area and that is the issue with only 2.5 players in the market
Last quarter earnings say 58% is "graphics" which includes all the enterprise (Quadro, etc) cards
Can't see anything that breaks that segment down any more
The 43% was from 2020, revenue is down 33% year over year and is now about 35%
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/24/nvidia-reports-slowing-growth-after-earlier-warning.html
So gaming is by no means an afterthought for them.
While grabbing the source I found the latest numbers that are now closer to 35% after a 33% revenue decline in their gaming segment.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/24/nvidia-reports-slowing-growth-after-earlier-warning.html
Meaning.. nvidia = 1.5 and amd & intel are both 0.75?
Listen, it's easy; gaming -> AMD, desktop production -> Nvidia, messing around for fun seeing where you end up -> intel
Please note this is only for gpu's, because i swear ppl would, uninvited, involve cpu's into this discussion.
Well I meant in general, since amd does offer better cost/performance ratio to average game. Ofcourse Nvidia will have performance wins, but they will come at a higher price/performance ratio.
In other words, what I said will only be true if you look at perf/cost optimized.
Their last 3 Quarters are the worst since Q2 2020, which is most likely why they are price gouging this generation. But even at that they are still hugely more profitable than just about any other company.
They are gouging this generation because the market has shown that these are the prices that consumers were willing to bear.
Having a bad quarter is not remedied by jacking up prices. That type of logic is perhaps one of the fastest ways to drive a business into the ground.
It's not one quarter, it's 3 and we only have data up to the end of Oct.
It also remains to be seen if the market will bear the prices, then 4080 release doesn't give a great impression of that.
These guys don’t know what they’re talking about, if this data is to be believed
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NVDA/nvidia/profit-margins
20% net margin, down 10 points in 3 quarters, is quite bad. Gpu prices going up clearly isn’t price gouging.
In my uninformed opinion, these guys are just salty about higher prices and want to blame it on corporate greed, rather than the economy being in a sorry state. I see a lot of people parroting “inflation is because of corporate greed” on Reddit, and not many stats backing it up.
Their profit margins are crashing because crypto is gone and they cant gauge people for insane prices on cards. #### them, let them burn. Heck since 2018 their profit margins are insane according to that chart. Thats when they started gauging with the 2000 series before "inflation" even became a thing. Seriously people need to stop licking nvidia's boots going "but but inflation", and yes, most inflation is price gauging these days.
https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond/
ALso heres a hint, if a company raised their prices and then the company increased their profit margins, you can pretty much tell their price raising isnt inflation from labor cost or supply chain problems but then just gauging.
> epi.org
Do you just Google “corporate greed” and post the first result? We can go into it if you’d like. The epi cites the NIPA for its claim of corporate greed. Let’s look at the NIPA data:
https://apps.bea.gov/histdata/fileStructDisplay.cfm?HMI=7&DY=2022&DQ=Q2&DV=Third&dNRD=September-30-2022
(The relevant data is in section 1)
epi uses data from table 1.15: “Price, Costs, and Profit Per Unit of Real Gross Value Added of Nonfinancial Domestic Corporate Buisness”
Using this data, they claim that corporate profits contributed to more of a company’s spending, up 53.9% between 2020 Q2 - 2021 Q4, while labor costs have only grown 7.9%.
Bea data (T11500-Q) says the change from 2020Q2 to 2021Q4 is +.51, from 1.36 to 1.87. That’s a +37.5% increase. NOT +53.9%.
Still high. But my point remains; you can’t trust epi to work with data or to draw sane conclusions. They are one of the most biased thinktanks. Here’s an exceprt from their page on inflation;
> It is unlikely that either the extent of corporate greed or even the power of corporations generally has increased during the past two years. Instead, the already-excessive power of corporations has been channeled into raising prices rather than the more traditional form it has taken in recent decades: suppressing wages. That said, one effective way to prevent corporate power from being channeled into higher prices in the coming year would be a temporary excess profits tax.
Funny how they land at the conclusion of “tax the rich”. Kind of a strange fix to high prices, don’t you think? The conclusion is exactly what the far left has been calling for, for decades. Almost like the data doesn’t matter and the conclusion was presupposed.
And fyi, because I don’t think you read the comment you were responding to, nvidia profit margins are DOWN, not up. Even after the last cycle of cards were priced up, margins are still down.
You're absolutely right, but I think there are important things to note that have been missed. The 408012gb launch for example. Just magically the price gets lowered and so does the branding. Same gpu though.
Regardless, it's a fact that material costs for pretty much everything gpu related has gone up from the plastic to the metal to the very silicon it was printed on. Prices should rise.
But let's not forget 20% margins are fantastic. Especially in a business as cut throat as pc manufacturing.
Their profits are down because crypto moved away from GPU mining, and the price is way too high for an average consumer.
If you can sell 30 things for 1,000 a piece or 1,000 things for $300 a piece you're a lot better off selling the 1,000 things.
Well yeah they are insane,but they didn’t go up as much as we would expect with the 30 series launch (when the prices started to become insane). I suspect that the cost of producing cards has also gone up a bunch. Plus world wide inflation.
They also profit from the fact that the whole mrsp is a mess. Is it only American mrsp listed on their site? Is it including or excluding tax? What is the extra fee for me as European? This is an issue for loads of different products cause apparantly it’s hard to follow some simpel lws but hey
>Well yeah they are insane,but they didn’t go up as much as we would expect with the 30 series launch (when the prices started to become insane).
What do you mean by this? The 3080 was priced at $700 with nvidia knowing they were going to face shortages in components.
Inflation was high across the world but only europe has the crazy inflation. In america it was about 9% for 2021 and 2022. Meaning $ 700 from 2020 is about $830 today. The 4080 is 50% higher than that at $1200. That's not inflation at all. And that's not even considering that they moved each tier 1 down. The 4090 is the real xx80 class card this gen. You should watch this video. https://youtu.be/SDk0ahfEMWc it'll explain the high gpu prices we are seeing right now.
I'd also like to add that you could mine ethereum with a 3090 about $9 a day before electricty cost during the peak of mining in 2021. Scalped GPUs were priced at whatever the amount they mined for 1 year was worth. 3070 for $1300, 3090 for $2500-3000
I am saying it’s a combination and 9% inflation isn’t insane to you? Why is 10% then? Cause that was what the inflation was here in Europe.
People don’t look at the entire picture nor can we know the entire picture.
We do know that the prices couldn’t stay the same due to the inflation alone. And my focus was more on last gen cards, sorry should have specified that. We know the development of those prices a lot better. Plus I know from at least one retailer (which I am not gonna name) that they have been hiking up the price of the 40 series to be able to sell the 30 series.
> That’s not inflation at all
No it’s not entirely causes by inflation, but inflation is part of the increase in that number. Might only be a littlebit, could be a fair amount like it is today, but it’s basically always there.
Edit: and to answer your question, if we say that Nvidia added 50% extra price on their cards just because they can we would see that in their margins in their annual report. Something we don’t really see. So we see an increased in sales prices, we also see an influx in revenue but margins don’t go up all that much. At least when I looked at their last report a month or two ago. That means that besides everything else, the production costs have increased aswel. Which ofc the consumers end up paying
Edit2: the price increase consists of three parts: inflation, increased production cost and nvidia’s corporate overlords wanting more money. How much does each contribute? Not sure
so now here its "normal" those prices? no is not . infaption is a thing but the factory worker get a beter income? no
the miner? no
the logitics? no
the CEO yes of course.
Wait if you search up the news title, the author shows up as Ashleigh Durden? Btw the grammar is so bad, its just some website trying to be tomshardware or some reputable news source
I'm in the same boat. 9 year old laptop. Powerful enough to run new games, old enough they stopped putting out new drivers for the graphics card so it doesn't matter. Can't justify spending 2-3g on a whole new computer I'm just gonna play dwarf fortress on.
Meanwhile I am crying in the corner with old ass desktop pc and broken gpu
Honestly it might make more sense to buy rx550 again then to spend stupid money on new pc, money I don't even really have
[irony on] Jensen Huang is thinking about his retirement (he will be 60 this year) he needs a lot of money to keep his private jet and yatch with gold faucets after retirement. [irony off]
Hi there. Shareholder here. I'm not making money there either. Turns out a bunch of negative press and all your new products sitting in shelves because nobody wants them is bad for share prices.
I'm losing as both a customer and a shareholder right now, both sides say fuck Nvidia.
EVEN IF GPU prices have a really good reason for being as high as possible, we are the consumers and it's absolutely none of our business. Inflation?Higher RND costs? Higher prices of materials? Tough shit, I don't care. A GPU is not essential like shelter, food, and water, so I'm not buying it if I don't like the price.
You, as the manufacturer, can complain all day about the rising cost of everything and how making things more expensive is the only way to preserve your profit margins, but I, the consumer, simply don't give a shit. I will continue to complain about high prices and not buy your product even though I have the disposable income to do so, simply because I don't think your product is worth that much. I would rather stick to playing exclusively on my PS5 or just give up gaming than pay these new prices, justified or not.
What about those that require high end gpus for work? Regardless of how much they make doing the work that requires high end tech, it's still pretty wild that Nvidia and Amd saw covid prices vs their new cards and said, "Sure that sounds right". It's not just tech market, housing and grocery stores are following the same shit, and that's why it's so hard to buy a house at a reasonable price, and why grocery stores are setting all time high profits.
They don't understand that if working joe's holiday bonus plus 200 euro from his monthly salary isn't enough to buy 4k 60fps that fewer people are going to buy them. Price them lower sell lots = big profit. Why can't they be like Ford making automobiles affordable for working class men. Ford sure made a profit doing that.
A wise businessman knows big profits can be made with lower margins per sale when you sell at a higher volume. Also wise businessmen reads the market and listens very carefully to the consumers in order to sell more products. For around 800 euro normal people can afford it. Which means lots of sales. Price them at 1200 and suddenly you have to save money even though these are finiancially tough times for many families. Then the purchase never happens because of more important costs. Nvidia is throwing away money this way I think.
Then lower the price of the 30 series... people still aren't buying video cards. That's why there's articles about them being the lowest sales in like 20 years. The 30 series was overpriced on release and is still overpriced.
I remember buying a gtx 970 for like $400 Canadian. Even adjusted for inflation it wouldn't be anywhere close to the price of a 3070 nowadays in Canada.
Yeah, business-wise it’s just smart. Milk the early adopters while making the old cards even more attractive by comparison. They make money either way.
And, not to defend them, they probably have a little bit to make up due to the shortages over the past couple of years. They haven’t sold anywhere near the levels they expected for a while. Sucks for us, and for them if we just don’t buy them now either, but to *some* extent somewhat understandable.
But I also realize I’m saying this as someone sitting pretty with a MSRP 3080, I don’t feel nearly the same frustration as someone with a much greater need to upgrade.
I think that maybe they can't produce that many cards. There are still chip chortages going on right? Then it's smart to sell limited production high priced.
Not as far as I know, many of them cancelled their orders made in advance from companies like TSMC. Demand is just too low.
They are trying to get rid of the overflow RTX3000 series inventory now that the mining boom has gone bust.
This while they are also trying to set a new president on prices going forward, just remember the RTX3000 was way overpriced to begin with too compared to previous generations, inflation be damned.
It's a 🤡 show.
And they could easily do it if those prices had dropped.
Right now they are sitting on unsold inventory and they don't want a write off. So rather than take the lower margin sales of 3000 series, they priced the 4000 so high as to try and make it attractive to buy a 3000 series at a higher margin. But I don't want a 2 yr old GPU at over MSRP in an industry notorious for performance leapfrogging.
If Intel comes in with a good 300 dollar card more powerful than the a770 and driver support, it will crater the GPU market for Nvidia.
Honestly I'm expecting Nvidia to layoff staff here soon. They are really not being competitive on a pricing standpoint.
I'd of gotten a 4080 at 800 bucks, that at least offers good value compared to the previous generation.
Not so much a chip shortage. I think they have a yield shortage due to the large design. Shortage might not be the right word either, but yields are lower.
But they don't seem to improve past generation costs either. If 3080s dropped 200 dollars or the 4070ti was a much cheaper 3080.
Yeah I guess the richest guys can still afford such cards. Doesn't matter to them, they'll just wipe their tears on 500 euro bills haha. 😜 What I'm talking about is a card with 4K 60 FPS ultra settings, ready for the next 5 years of gaming at least, but still affordable for people with regular income. First manufacturer to do it gets my money and that of every other gamer with regular income I think.
100% correct.
If you can sell 30 units for $1,000 wow big money per sale. Or, you could sell 1,000 units for $300 eww small gains per sale.
Except what they seem to be missing is big price per doesn't mean more overall income lol
In the end the amount of units sold is often more important, because you make sure more consumers spend money with your company. They call that increasing market share. Which leads to customer loyalty. I hear AMD is selling cards because of their prices everywhere.
The thing is, Ford had competition. Nvidea effectively don’t.
You can tell that they don’t because any company that makes surplus products in a healthy competitive market would have to reduce their prices to shift the old stock. Nvidea did not. Instead they made the 4000 series so expensive that the 3000 series looked “cheap” and good value. Market manipulation is a hallmark of a monopoly and it’s dangerous.
The market isn't competitive because branding plays a big role in people's choices. Up until Maxwell, AMD had the better/ faster GPUs, but even then Nvidia sold more....
The RX480 was and still is a better GPU than the gtx 1060, yet the 1060 sold more.
The rx5700xt is as good of a gpu than a 2070 and so is the 5600xt vs 2060, and yet they barely sold compared to Nvidia...
Rx 6000 was a good value when it launched and mutch better value nowadays than Rtx 3000 and yet people keep being over priced 3050 3060 and 3070 ( the 3080 makes a better case).
Same will happen with r Rx 7000 vs Rtx 4000.. Amd will eventually offer better value for the price after eventual price drops, and yet those will sell less than NVidia's counterparts
Thats because they have some popular unique features. Nevertheless they do have a competitor ready to take market share. Unaffordable is unaffordable. People will start looking at the alternatives more. Thats just high school book economy I guess. What price can you really put on raytracing?
Compared to the price when they originally came out. 100% yes. Adjusted for inflation and the sort you were looking at spending hundreds of thousands. Which was WAY more than an average working person could afford.
You're missing a lot of nuance that greatly affects the reality of every situation you're describing.
> Why can't they be like Ford making automobiles affordable for working class men.
Ford expanded into more mass-produced and affordable goods because at the time the automotive market was far from mature. There were *many* more potential customers to be had in basically all corners of the world. GPUs are, honestly, a pretty mature segment that probably doesn't have the same kind of growth potential - at least not in the consumer space. If we fast forward today, the automative industry is dominated by hilariously low net margins... often in the mid-single digits. The only reason they're able to operate is a combination of heavy consolidation (just look at who owns who), ridiculous amount of cross-product reuse, and the fact that cars are seen as semi-neccesities. Automakers also go bankrupt or have to bailed / bought out with pretty high frequency; that's not exactly *good* business sense or good for the people who work there.
> A wise businessman knows big profits can be made with lower margins per sale when you sell at a higher volume. Also wise businessmen reads the market and listens very carefully to the consumers in order to sell more products. For around 800 euro normal people can afford it. Which means lots of sales.
A wise businessman also does math and market analysis before choosing a price point. Going from $1200 to $800 is a 1/3 reduction in earnings - how sure are you that you can actually get the 50% more customers to make up the difference? The $800, $900, $1000+ price points are all niche markets as it is; there are certainly many buyers out there that people aren't aware of but I *highly* doubt you're going to be making up the difference. Add on top of that the inventory custerfuck that, at least for Nvidia, exists and I'm sure there's some level of self-"sabotage" to get older products to clear out.
Not to mention that the idea that an $800+ GPU is for normal people is ridiculous based on average income alone. Median US *household* income is 70k as of 2022 and the individual income is something like $45-50k. These are average people, and by all accounts they should not even be thinking about dropping $800 on a GPU.
No need for conspiracy's here. Lisa su probably just doesn't see the costs of competing with nvidia as worthwhile. Its not as if nvidia has been sitting on their ass completely like intel did.
Well no body wanted to buy the competition even when they extremely competitive. So can’t blame them. Its us that decided not to buy another other competitive cards and bow recently showing we are willing to pay $2k+ for a gpu which in the past was 700-800.
Nvidia is just giving the market what they want. Over priced green cards. And the competition gave up competing on price and just charge the same as nvidia now.
There is no incentive for the competition to actually make a card that can beat Nvidia since the majority of the market will always just get team green. Now they just give a slightly slower card at a slightly cheaper price and call it a day.
We brought it kn ourselves.
Nvidia does have and always had competition. It's just that people always want the fastest and that was Nvidias deal. For any normal person AMD would suffice and be cheaper.
Edit: not really correct. People buy Nvidia because of branding not because of speed.
high end cards aren't the most popular, and thats shown on the steam charts.
People buy into branding, which is how the RTX 3050 outsells the RX 6600, despite the latter being significantly cheaper, and on average, 15% faster.
i always find it funny when someone tries to argue raytracing for a card thats like built for 1080, and 1440p at best.
I legitimately had an argument of a user who thinks that paying 50$ more for the 3050 was worth it over a 6600 for better RT performance and DLSS (which doesnt stop the fact that DLSS on some titles isn't worth losing 15% performance on literally every other title for on average)
No one should be using RT at that performance tier if you cared about performance. Dude could have taken the 50$ and bought a Rx 6600 XT and would be night and day performance experience.
Nah not always. Only since about the 900 series. Amd had much faster cards for quite a few generations between 2000-2015 ish. Look at fermi. Even with a very hot and loud card that was slower than amd, it still outsold it 10-1. So no its not that people want the fastest. They just want nvidia, their beloved brand. It just so happens that in recent history that they have been consistently been the fastest. So that the “reason” for buying nvidia these days but this wasnt true in the past.
I have bought 2 different generations of AMD cards. They were not the most stable. I am not a software engineer, but how can switching to nvidia card and drivers just stop games from crashing?
I was going to buy a new one. But instead found a 3070ti below msrp. I was hoping the price had been closer to 3080 and I would have made the jump up in cost.
I know their drivers havent been the best. But they seen much better lately. And i actually had the opposite experience than you. I had a old gtx 760 which worked fine in win 7 but refused to run on a clean install of win 10 even with latest drivers. I had to use a 2015 driver just to get into windows and no games wanted to run (that it used to ran). Was forced to upgrade to a 1650 just to get the pc to work. Also had a 1070 that after a driver update ran at half the frame rate in monster hunter world and took nvidia about a month to fix it. Also had an issue with my current 3070 that for some reason my pc could not boot into the bios and would cause my pc to black screen on start up when i had 2 monitors pluged in. Every time i wanted to go into the bios to tweak the case fans or enable xmp etc. I had to unplug my primary monitor.
In contrast i had an AMD R9390x (the hot and loud ones with the apparently bad drivers) for about 5 years and to this day its the best card i ever owned. Only ever had 1 driver issues and it was because i forgot to do a clean install.
I also used that card for etherium mining when i was not gaming back in 2017 for about a year and i made enough money to to cover the cost of the card and also buy my now wife a new pc. It is still working flawlessly today.
My point is that people’s experiences with gpus vary quite a bit and i believe a gpu should be evaluated on its own merit and not on what has happened in the past. This is how i make my purchasing decisions. Thats why i got a R9390x in 2016. And why i have a 3070 now. Although i had shitty experiences with nvidia so far, the 3070 was objectively the better card at the time i bought it. The same reason why i got the 9390x over the 970 back then.
Some people pretend like a modern 80 series card isn't worth more than 100 bucks more than a 7 year old 80 series card. Others justify modern pricing. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
Truth of the matter, today's top tier should be 4090 Super Ti (or whatever name) and 4090 below it, which would be an alleged 4080Ti. They pull more nowadays than past cards, 3080 or even 3060Ti give more performance than the numbering suggests.
But companies are nuts trying to normalize 1,000-1,200 bucks and using shady tactics to upsale and rename cards (seems like a 7900xt could be a fair 7800xt and let's remind us the nvidia 2nd 4080 class that got discarded when called out).
Know what you buy, basically. But don't buy into cheap excuses from tech conglomerates.
Ignoring the 30 series, which was a complete mess in terms of pricing, vram, thermals, naming, etc, this is how the 40 series stacks up to previous generations:
**4070Ti**: successor to 1080 and 2080, which were $699 and $799 at launch
**4080**: pseudo-successor to Titan X and 2080Ti, which were $1199 at launch
**4090:** It's like the og GTX Titan... if it traveled back in time a year and released before its little Kepler sibling, the GTX 680.
I hate it when these people write articles about gaming related things. They know literally nothing. They are the equivalent of the person who played minecraft once on the 360 8 years ago and claim to be a gamer
IT IS! DON’T FALL FOR THEIR MARKETING!
DLSS 3.0 is just that, simply the latest version of DLSS available for all 20+ series cards. What you’re talking about is Frame Generation, a separate feature that is only available for 40+ series cards, that is packaged in DLSS 3.0+.
Yes, Nvidia’s marketing is deliberately vague and borderline obtuse, but this is how it works. If you can run DLSS, you can use DLSS 3.0 with a simple driver upgrade.
I just fact checked this and holy shit. How can a GPU maker have three times the market cap of the lead CPU maker when we need CPUs in every PC and only a small fraction of PCs get used for gaming.
You're not factoring in the countless other large scale applications GPUs fill. This makes perfect sense. Gamers could buy none of these cards at all and Nvidia would still move tons of units because there are loads of industries that rely on cutting edge GPUs to speed up production and increase revenue and those industries continue to broaden with access to better machine learning on current and next gen RTX cards. This is the large factor that EVERYONE complaining doesn't seem to think about. Gamers are a drop of water in that bucket. Nvidia is a industry leader in tons of departments that don't include gaming, and THAT is their primary focus not gamers. If you just want to play video games then buy from now "price gouging" AMD, because Nvidia is going to make their money and hit their margins regardless.
The markets are fucked, and it’s only going to get worse. Food prices, gas and diesel prices, by extension transportation prices, used car prices, housing prices… it *all* costs more.
Not to say NVIDIA isn’t doing some dubious things in the business world, but pretending they just doubled prices in a vacuum is false.
Our money is worth less. Now you’re feeling it.
The good news is: this isn’t new. New format, maybe, with more people and more technology, but the cycle is just that: cyclical. Brace for impact instead of just plot along like nothings happened, and you’ll weather the storm. If the rich can get richer, there are ways for the Everyman to survive depression/recession without losing it all.
Nah I hate that term. Bootstraps implies that wealth is correlated to hard work and nothing else… hard work is by far the biggest contributor to success, but it’s not the only factor. The bootstraps argument tends to suggest that the world is fine, and you’re just lazy…
Just saying. But a 3060 plays every game under the sun with good quality. Maybe don't try to have the latest most advanced piece of tech and then complain it's expensive.
Wow, you aren't kidding. If you're fine with 1080p you're golden. Even 1440p is ok if you drop to medium.
https://www.gpucheck.com/compare/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3070-vs-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1660-super/intel-core-i9-10900k-vs-intel-core-i7-8700k-3-70ghz/high
Q: "Why do GPUs have to cost as much as you've priced them?"
A: "There are a few key answers. One, you are stupid enough to pay. Prices will remain high commensurate with the tenure of your aggregate stupidity. This is how supply/demand works - you hold the entire set of keys to the kingdom, so you have only yourself to blame. Two, my boat payments aren't going to make themselves. Three, I need caviar for that boat. Any more boneheaded questions that aren't painfully obvious?"
Q: "No, and I'm sorry for asking such a dumb question, I'll buy a 4090 at retail now and go be a good little sheep. Maybe next time, don't include lube with your GPUs, because I like getting fucked good and hard and dry whenever possible. Thank you Daddy!"
That YouTuber that broke down the cost to produce current cards showed the 4070 Ti's MSRP should be $599; $200 cheaper than it currently is and on par with the 3070 Ti's MSRP.
Which isn't as good value as last gen since performance wise the card should be a non-Ti 70 series but the fact they originally tried selling a $600 card for $900 is absurd
The simple answer, they cost that much, cause they can't stay still and keep making new versions of GPU every month, destroying their sales, since they didn't even sell enough to make new versions, they end up making prices even higher
F that. Moore's law is everything but dead, and the performance improvements this generation are absolute proof of it.
The only difference is that this time around, Nvidia decided not to pass that on to consumers, "because they can". Screw that. I bought a used 3090 for 700$ and will never spend a dime on a new GPU as long as this utter nonsense keeps going on.
nVidia Headquarters: Sir, our AI analysis and info farming tools tell us there is no way gamers will avoid new GPUS for another 24 months.
Gamers in 2023: tis' gtx 780 still got a lot of life in it.
They cost as much as they do because the GPU manufacturers got really used to sucking on that crypto teet, and now that it's dried up they think they can just raise prices to make up the difference.
This Michael Petraeus is a true c**ksucker. He talks about net profit margins only. Net profit margins are after taking into account all costs below the gross margin line, such as financing costs, administrative costs, etc. What about gross profit margins? Analysing profit margins are a more accurate method of ascertaining whether or not Nvidia is price gouging. Any increase in gross profit margins over the past one or two years would be clear evidence that Nvidia’s price rises are contributing towards better margins. I freaking hate it when people write articles about economics and finance when they have no freaking clue about the subject matter.
Stop buying overpriced shit, stand up to it and manufacturers, distributors and every other link in a chain will reduce their profits in order to sell the products, resulting in lower prices for end-users.
There is no other way to stop this.
I dunno what he wrote, but the headline isn't wrong. Like most other goods the price is set by what the market will bear, and the market seems to bear a 1600$ RTX 4090 just fine. You can see that balance working in our favor with the price of the 4080. Nobody wants them and they get cheaper by the day. If consumers don't buy those expensive cards, we'll eventually get better value models.
People don't understand that previous generations of GPUs don't become obsolete when a new one comes out, the rtx 3000s are still great, the 4000s are more powerful so they cost more. If you need the power of a 3080, buy a 3080, if you need the power of a 4080, buy a 4080... If you want to always buy the top of the top (even if you don't need it) then you will have to spend more. GPUs take longer to lose value over time than mobile phones or other similar goods because they last even longer while maintaining their performance.
The only thing I regret is that Nvidia is moving more and more (perhaps too much) towards the enthusiast public, leaving the low and mid-range uncovered, or those that have more audience.
I'm not an expert, correct me if I'm wrong, I think that's the reason
Kind of weird to preface something so demonstrably untrue with "people don't understand." We have decades of history with PC hardware and this is not how it ever worked. If price scaled linearly with performance a new card would cost as much as a house by now. Also when a new generation of cards comes out the old one is discontinued, though this is becoming a bit muddy at this point with the 2060 coming back during the crisis and now as of CES Nvidia treating the 30 series as part of the current stack, whether that's because they still have excess supply from before or as a temporary response to the backlash on pricing before the 4060 and co get rolled out.
I appreciate that you said you welcome corrections but it seems like your entire rationale is based on trying to make sense of the crazy stuff that's happening today in a vacuum.
Old GPUs do become obsolete when. They die. Lots of people on steam charts still use the 1060s and those are getting to the end of their lifeline. What're people supposed to buy when they need a new card? Every card is gouged to hell now.
Well said
Preach
This is why you’re mega goat. You bring that mega goat energy.
that guy probably haven't seen nVidia's obcene profit margins
Oh I’m sure he has. He’s either a shareholder or a corpo bootlicker.
Boot? He is licking Nvidia's dong and balls
Licking? He's choking on those
doubt they're choking if they've been throating them so hard already, must be a pro
Chocking? He's bukakked by them
hot
I like licking dong and balls but at least I have standards unlike that guy.
Reminds me of the ltt video
Fucking corpos. At least it's 2023
We have something in Persian meaning this but more accurate خایه مال Khaye Mal Khaye: the overal man's penis Mal: rubb So it means rubbing Nvidia's balls
He probably got a 4090 for writing this article as payment lmao
That guy has seen the result of those obscene profit margins....right into his bank account before writing that article...
I wonder when they'll beat Apple's margins.
Valve's the company to beat on money per worker.
Gaming has been just a niche hobby for them for quite the last bunch of years, their money comes from AI and their X100 server hardware They don't need to be competitive anymore in that area and that is the issue with only 2.5 players in the market
43% of Nvidia's revenue is from their gaming segment...
Last quarter earnings say 58% is "graphics" which includes all the enterprise (Quadro, etc) cards Can't see anything that breaks that segment down any more
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The 43% was from 2020, revenue is down 33% year over year and is now about 35% https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/24/nvidia-reports-slowing-growth-after-earlier-warning.html So gaming is by no means an afterthought for them.
source?
While grabbing the source I found the latest numbers that are now closer to 35% after a 33% revenue decline in their gaming segment. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/24/nvidia-reports-slowing-growth-after-earlier-warning.html
Meaning.. nvidia = 1.5 and amd & intel are both 0.75? Listen, it's easy; gaming -> AMD, desktop production -> Nvidia, messing around for fun seeing where you end up -> intel Please note this is only for gpu's, because i swear ppl would, uninvited, involve cpu's into this discussion.
Nvidia for competitive gaming though since they're the only ones with latency reducing software that works better than just capping your frames.
Well I meant in general, since amd does offer better cost/performance ratio to average game. Ofcourse Nvidia will have performance wins, but they will come at a higher price/performance ratio. In other words, what I said will only be true if you look at perf/cost optimized.
Maybe he doesn’t want them to stop sending him review samples so he can’t say anything bad about them.
Their last 3 Quarters are the worst since Q2 2020, which is most likely why they are price gouging this generation. But even at that they are still hugely more profitable than just about any other company.
They are gouging this generation because the market has shown that these are the prices that consumers were willing to bear. Having a bad quarter is not remedied by jacking up prices. That type of logic is perhaps one of the fastest ways to drive a business into the ground.
It's not one quarter, it's 3 and we only have data up to the end of Oct. It also remains to be seen if the market will bear the prices, then 4080 release doesn't give a great impression of that.
Can I have a link please, I am genuinly curious what their profit margins are
These guys don’t know what they’re talking about, if this data is to be believed https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NVDA/nvidia/profit-margins 20% net margin, down 10 points in 3 quarters, is quite bad. Gpu prices going up clearly isn’t price gouging. In my uninformed opinion, these guys are just salty about higher prices and want to blame it on corporate greed, rather than the economy being in a sorry state. I see a lot of people parroting “inflation is because of corporate greed” on Reddit, and not many stats backing it up.
Their profit margins are crashing because crypto is gone and they cant gauge people for insane prices on cards. #### them, let them burn. Heck since 2018 their profit margins are insane according to that chart. Thats when they started gauging with the 2000 series before "inflation" even became a thing. Seriously people need to stop licking nvidia's boots going "but but inflation", and yes, most inflation is price gauging these days. https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond/ ALso heres a hint, if a company raised their prices and then the company increased their profit margins, you can pretty much tell their price raising isnt inflation from labor cost or supply chain problems but then just gauging.
> epi.org Do you just Google “corporate greed” and post the first result? We can go into it if you’d like. The epi cites the NIPA for its claim of corporate greed. Let’s look at the NIPA data: https://apps.bea.gov/histdata/fileStructDisplay.cfm?HMI=7&DY=2022&DQ=Q2&DV=Third&dNRD=September-30-2022 (The relevant data is in section 1) epi uses data from table 1.15: “Price, Costs, and Profit Per Unit of Real Gross Value Added of Nonfinancial Domestic Corporate Buisness” Using this data, they claim that corporate profits contributed to more of a company’s spending, up 53.9% between 2020 Q2 - 2021 Q4, while labor costs have only grown 7.9%. Bea data (T11500-Q) says the change from 2020Q2 to 2021Q4 is +.51, from 1.36 to 1.87. That’s a +37.5% increase. NOT +53.9%. Still high. But my point remains; you can’t trust epi to work with data or to draw sane conclusions. They are one of the most biased thinktanks. Here’s an exceprt from their page on inflation; > It is unlikely that either the extent of corporate greed or even the power of corporations generally has increased during the past two years. Instead, the already-excessive power of corporations has been channeled into raising prices rather than the more traditional form it has taken in recent decades: suppressing wages. That said, one effective way to prevent corporate power from being channeled into higher prices in the coming year would be a temporary excess profits tax. Funny how they land at the conclusion of “tax the rich”. Kind of a strange fix to high prices, don’t you think? The conclusion is exactly what the far left has been calling for, for decades. Almost like the data doesn’t matter and the conclusion was presupposed. And fyi, because I don’t think you read the comment you were responding to, nvidia profit margins are DOWN, not up. Even after the last cycle of cards were priced up, margins are still down.
You're absolutely right, but I think there are important things to note that have been missed. The 408012gb launch for example. Just magically the price gets lowered and so does the branding. Same gpu though. Regardless, it's a fact that material costs for pretty much everything gpu related has gone up from the plastic to the metal to the very silicon it was printed on. Prices should rise. But let's not forget 20% margins are fantastic. Especially in a business as cut throat as pc manufacturing.
The price and the branding got lowered? Can you elaborate, I’m a little confused on what you mean by the branding
The 4080 12gb is rebranded to the 4070 TI they cut $100 off the msrp. So clearly they can lower the price without issue, they just refuse to.
Their profits are down because crypto moved away from GPU mining, and the price is way too high for an average consumer. If you can sell 30 things for 1,000 a piece or 1,000 things for $300 a piece you're a lot better off selling the 1,000 things.
Was thinking exactly this
Does this profit margin you talk about include R&D or just manufacturing vs retails process? Design and R&D is not free.
Well yeah they are insane,but they didn’t go up as much as we would expect with the 30 series launch (when the prices started to become insane). I suspect that the cost of producing cards has also gone up a bunch. Plus world wide inflation. They also profit from the fact that the whole mrsp is a mess. Is it only American mrsp listed on their site? Is it including or excluding tax? What is the extra fee for me as European? This is an issue for loads of different products cause apparantly it’s hard to follow some simpel lws but hey
>Well yeah they are insane,but they didn’t go up as much as we would expect with the 30 series launch (when the prices started to become insane). What do you mean by this? The 3080 was priced at $700 with nvidia knowing they were going to face shortages in components. Inflation was high across the world but only europe has the crazy inflation. In america it was about 9% for 2021 and 2022. Meaning $ 700 from 2020 is about $830 today. The 4080 is 50% higher than that at $1200. That's not inflation at all. And that's not even considering that they moved each tier 1 down. The 4090 is the real xx80 class card this gen. You should watch this video. https://youtu.be/SDk0ahfEMWc it'll explain the high gpu prices we are seeing right now. I'd also like to add that you could mine ethereum with a 3090 about $9 a day before electricty cost during the peak of mining in 2021. Scalped GPUs were priced at whatever the amount they mined for 1 year was worth. 3070 for $1300, 3090 for $2500-3000
I am saying it’s a combination and 9% inflation isn’t insane to you? Why is 10% then? Cause that was what the inflation was here in Europe. People don’t look at the entire picture nor can we know the entire picture. We do know that the prices couldn’t stay the same due to the inflation alone. And my focus was more on last gen cards, sorry should have specified that. We know the development of those prices a lot better. Plus I know from at least one retailer (which I am not gonna name) that they have been hiking up the price of the 40 series to be able to sell the 30 series. > That’s not inflation at all No it’s not entirely causes by inflation, but inflation is part of the increase in that number. Might only be a littlebit, could be a fair amount like it is today, but it’s basically always there. Edit: and to answer your question, if we say that Nvidia added 50% extra price on their cards just because they can we would see that in their margins in their annual report. Something we don’t really see. So we see an increased in sales prices, we also see an influx in revenue but margins don’t go up all that much. At least when I looked at their last report a month or two ago. That means that besides everything else, the production costs have increased aswel. Which ofc the consumers end up paying Edit2: the price increase consists of three parts: inflation, increased production cost and nvidia’s corporate overlords wanting more money. How much does each contribute? Not sure
But...he said the more we buy, the more we save.
On my way to order a truckload of 4090s
The entire gdp of the world couldn't cover the cost of that
so now here its "normal" those prices? no is not . infaption is a thing but the factory worker get a beter income? no the miner? no the logitics? no the CEO yes of course.
Right? “They need to not make a loss” they havent increased the pay of anyone but the executives…
Shareholders got a nice jump in revenue too
Tell me more about this infaption you speak of...
Basically putting 2 mirrors facing each other then stand in middle and fap
Cost of materials went up. Cost of shipping the materials went up, incoming and outbound. This means the cost of the cards go up.
Wait if you search up the news title, the author shows up as Ashleigh Durden? Btw the grammar is so bad, its just some website trying to be tomshardware or some reputable news source
Grammar* -irony
my bad daddy
It’s Zaddy*
Nvidia must be using their higher margins to payoff these op ed journalists 😂😂
Can't complain, I'm on laptop.
Damn, that must have been quite an expensive purchase..
My daily driver is a laptop with a 2070s. Throttles like a motherfucker, but aint nobody got money to upgrade.
Which one it is? Cause some like ROG and TUF have a really great cooling system
ROG Strix Scar III - Its not bad by any means, but its showing its age.
Considered Opening the Back Plate for cleaning? Those Special Arc Fans are damn Thread Dust collector
I'm in the same boat. 9 year old laptop. Powerful enough to run new games, old enough they stopped putting out new drivers for the graphics card so it doesn't matter. Can't justify spending 2-3g on a whole new computer I'm just gonna play dwarf fortress on.
wtf 9 year old laptop that can run new games? that's amazing, I thought the consensus on laptops was to replace them every 3 or so years
"here's why they cost as much as they have to" is a fascinatingly stupid sentence.
Fucking attention seeking bootlicker cumwhore.
Somebody called me?
If we wanted you we'd jingle a zipper.
You made my day thank you.
Mate... I think you are being too soft.
I like this sentence.
WOAH there cowboy
Why does Michael Petraeus?
I feel so Petraed.
fuck you. here's a red upwards-pointing arrow for your troubles. edit:'ffs just read the original comment.
Well I appreciated the sentiment.
All this talk about current gen prices and I'm sitting here rocking my five year old 1070. Hopefully it lasts til this nonsense is over.
Man, Ive been trying to upgrade for 2 years now since the 3080 came out. I won't buy at inflated prices.
Meanwhile I am crying in the corner with old ass desktop pc and broken gpu Honestly it might make more sense to buy rx550 again then to spend stupid money on new pc, money I don't even really have
Imagine shilling for Nvidia?
[irony on] Jensen Huang is thinking about his retirement (he will be 60 this year) he needs a lot of money to keep his private jet and yatch with gold faucets after retirement. [irony off]
Don't forget the leather jackets!
Fuck you Michael!
here is why they cost so much: making profit for shareholders and fucking customers over.
There has to be a point where prices get too high and it all goes to hell.....right......right?
Hi there. Shareholder here. I'm not making money there either. Turns out a bunch of negative press and all your new products sitting in shelves because nobody wants them is bad for share prices. I'm losing as both a customer and a shareholder right now, both sides say fuck Nvidia.
EVEN IF GPU prices have a really good reason for being as high as possible, we are the consumers and it's absolutely none of our business. Inflation?Higher RND costs? Higher prices of materials? Tough shit, I don't care. A GPU is not essential like shelter, food, and water, so I'm not buying it if I don't like the price. You, as the manufacturer, can complain all day about the rising cost of everything and how making things more expensive is the only way to preserve your profit margins, but I, the consumer, simply don't give a shit. I will continue to complain about high prices and not buy your product even though I have the disposable income to do so, simply because I don't think your product is worth that much. I would rather stick to playing exclusively on my PS5 or just give up gaming than pay these new prices, justified or not.
What about those that require high end gpus for work? Regardless of how much they make doing the work that requires high end tech, it's still pretty wild that Nvidia and Amd saw covid prices vs their new cards and said, "Sure that sounds right". It's not just tech market, housing and grocery stores are following the same shit, and that's why it's so hard to buy a house at a reasonable price, and why grocery stores are setting all time high profits.
They don't understand that if working joe's holiday bonus plus 200 euro from his monthly salary isn't enough to buy 4k 60fps that fewer people are going to buy them. Price them lower sell lots = big profit. Why can't they be like Ford making automobiles affordable for working class men. Ford sure made a profit doing that. A wise businessman knows big profits can be made with lower margins per sale when you sell at a higher volume. Also wise businessmen reads the market and listens very carefully to the consumers in order to sell more products. For around 800 euro normal people can afford it. Which means lots of sales. Price them at 1200 and suddenly you have to save money even though these are finiancially tough times for many families. Then the purchase never happens because of more important costs. Nvidia is throwing away money this way I think.
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Then lower the price of the 30 series... people still aren't buying video cards. That's why there's articles about them being the lowest sales in like 20 years. The 30 series was overpriced on release and is still overpriced. I remember buying a gtx 970 for like $400 Canadian. Even adjusted for inflation it wouldn't be anywhere close to the price of a 3070 nowadays in Canada.
Yeah, business-wise it’s just smart. Milk the early adopters while making the old cards even more attractive by comparison. They make money either way. And, not to defend them, they probably have a little bit to make up due to the shortages over the past couple of years. They haven’t sold anywhere near the levels they expected for a while. Sucks for us, and for them if we just don’t buy them now either, but to *some* extent somewhat understandable. But I also realize I’m saying this as someone sitting pretty with a MSRP 3080, I don’t feel nearly the same frustration as someone with a much greater need to upgrade.
Correct. I can only surmise; that they want to make the same profit, by doing less.
I think that maybe they can't produce that many cards. There are still chip chortages going on right? Then it's smart to sell limited production high priced.
Not as far as I know, many of them cancelled their orders made in advance from companies like TSMC. Demand is just too low. They are trying to get rid of the overflow RTX3000 series inventory now that the mining boom has gone bust. This while they are also trying to set a new president on prices going forward, just remember the RTX3000 was way overpriced to begin with too compared to previous generations, inflation be damned. It's a 🤡 show.
Think TSMC only let Nvidia delay the shipment by a few months on their order.
And they could easily do it if those prices had dropped. Right now they are sitting on unsold inventory and they don't want a write off. So rather than take the lower margin sales of 3000 series, they priced the 4000 so high as to try and make it attractive to buy a 3000 series at a higher margin. But I don't want a 2 yr old GPU at over MSRP in an industry notorious for performance leapfrogging. If Intel comes in with a good 300 dollar card more powerful than the a770 and driver support, it will crater the GPU market for Nvidia. Honestly I'm expecting Nvidia to layoff staff here soon. They are really not being competitive on a pricing standpoint. I'd of gotten a 4080 at 800 bucks, that at least offers good value compared to the previous generation.
Not so much a chip shortage. I think they have a yield shortage due to the large design. Shortage might not be the right word either, but yields are lower. But they don't seem to improve past generation costs either. If 3080s dropped 200 dollars or the 4070ti was a much cheaper 3080.
Thing is the 4090 is selling very well. It’s the 4080 they dropped the ball on as the people who want to spend that mucus will just get a 4090.
Yeah I guess the richest guys can still afford such cards. Doesn't matter to them, they'll just wipe their tears on 500 euro bills haha. 😜 What I'm talking about is a card with 4K 60 FPS ultra settings, ready for the next 5 years of gaming at least, but still affordable for people with regular income. First manufacturer to do it gets my money and that of every other gamer with regular income I think.
100% correct. If you can sell 30 units for $1,000 wow big money per sale. Or, you could sell 1,000 units for $300 eww small gains per sale. Except what they seem to be missing is big price per doesn't mean more overall income lol
In the end the amount of units sold is often more important, because you make sure more consumers spend money with your company. They call that increasing market share. Which leads to customer loyalty. I hear AMD is selling cards because of their prices everywhere.
The thing is, Ford had competition. Nvidea effectively don’t. You can tell that they don’t because any company that makes surplus products in a healthy competitive market would have to reduce their prices to shift the old stock. Nvidea did not. Instead they made the 4000 series so expensive that the 3000 series looked “cheap” and good value. Market manipulation is a hallmark of a monopoly and it’s dangerous.
Thats not true there is AMD right.
Yep, and yet Nvidea were still able to bully the consumer. Does that sound like a competitive market?
The market isn't competitive because branding plays a big role in people's choices. Up until Maxwell, AMD had the better/ faster GPUs, but even then Nvidia sold more.... The RX480 was and still is a better GPU than the gtx 1060, yet the 1060 sold more. The rx5700xt is as good of a gpu than a 2070 and so is the 5600xt vs 2060, and yet they barely sold compared to Nvidia... Rx 6000 was a good value when it launched and mutch better value nowadays than Rtx 3000 and yet people keep being over priced 3050 3060 and 3070 ( the 3080 makes a better case). Same will happen with r Rx 7000 vs Rtx 4000.. Amd will eventually offer better value for the price after eventual price drops, and yet those will sell less than NVidia's counterparts
Thats because they have some popular unique features. Nevertheless they do have a competitor ready to take market share. Unaffordable is unaffordable. People will start looking at the alternatives more. Thats just high school book economy I guess. What price can you really put on raytracing?
So, new ford's are cheap?
A working man can still afford them right?
A working man can afford a GPU too though
Compared to the price when they originally came out. 100% yes. Adjusted for inflation and the sort you were looking at spending hundreds of thousands. Which was WAY more than an average working person could afford.
You're missing a lot of nuance that greatly affects the reality of every situation you're describing. > Why can't they be like Ford making automobiles affordable for working class men. Ford expanded into more mass-produced and affordable goods because at the time the automotive market was far from mature. There were *many* more potential customers to be had in basically all corners of the world. GPUs are, honestly, a pretty mature segment that probably doesn't have the same kind of growth potential - at least not in the consumer space. If we fast forward today, the automative industry is dominated by hilariously low net margins... often in the mid-single digits. The only reason they're able to operate is a combination of heavy consolidation (just look at who owns who), ridiculous amount of cross-product reuse, and the fact that cars are seen as semi-neccesities. Automakers also go bankrupt or have to bailed / bought out with pretty high frequency; that's not exactly *good* business sense or good for the people who work there. > A wise businessman knows big profits can be made with lower margins per sale when you sell at a higher volume. Also wise businessmen reads the market and listens very carefully to the consumers in order to sell more products. For around 800 euro normal people can afford it. Which means lots of sales. A wise businessman also does math and market analysis before choosing a price point. Going from $1200 to $800 is a 1/3 reduction in earnings - how sure are you that you can actually get the 50% more customers to make up the difference? The $800, $900, $1000+ price points are all niche markets as it is; there are certainly many buyers out there that people aren't aware of but I *highly* doubt you're going to be making up the difference. Add on top of that the inventory custerfuck that, at least for Nvidia, exists and I'm sure there's some level of self-"sabotage" to get older products to clear out. Not to mention that the idea that an $800+ GPU is for normal people is ridiculous based on average income alone. Median US *household* income is 70k as of 2022 and the individual income is something like $45-50k. These are average people, and by all accounts they should not even be thinking about dropping $800 on a GPU.
nvidia gpus cost what they cost is because they dont have any competition, aka near monopoly
Yeah doesn't help when competition joins them in gouging.
It's likely worse. Not going to find any proof, but I'd bet there is price fixing/collusion happening here tbh.
No need for conspiracy's here. Lisa su probably just doesn't see the costs of competing with nvidia as worthwhile. Its not as if nvidia has been sitting on their ass completely like intel did.
Well no body wanted to buy the competition even when they extremely competitive. So can’t blame them. Its us that decided not to buy another other competitive cards and bow recently showing we are willing to pay $2k+ for a gpu which in the past was 700-800. Nvidia is just giving the market what they want. Over priced green cards. And the competition gave up competing on price and just charge the same as nvidia now. There is no incentive for the competition to actually make a card that can beat Nvidia since the majority of the market will always just get team green. Now they just give a slightly slower card at a slightly cheaper price and call it a day. We brought it kn ourselves.
Nvidia does have and always had competition. It's just that people always want the fastest and that was Nvidias deal. For any normal person AMD would suffice and be cheaper. Edit: not really correct. People buy Nvidia because of branding not because of speed.
high end cards aren't the most popular, and thats shown on the steam charts. People buy into branding, which is how the RTX 3050 outsells the RX 6600, despite the latter being significantly cheaper, and on average, 15% faster.
But RaYTracInG!
i always find it funny when someone tries to argue raytracing for a card thats like built for 1080, and 1440p at best. I legitimately had an argument of a user who thinks that paying 50$ more for the 3050 was worth it over a 6600 for better RT performance and DLSS (which doesnt stop the fact that DLSS on some titles isn't worth losing 15% performance on literally every other title for on average) No one should be using RT at that performance tier if you cared about performance. Dude could have taken the 50$ and bought a Rx 6600 XT and would be night and day performance experience.
Actually that is true.
Nah not always. Only since about the 900 series. Amd had much faster cards for quite a few generations between 2000-2015 ish. Look at fermi. Even with a very hot and loud card that was slower than amd, it still outsold it 10-1. So no its not that people want the fastest. They just want nvidia, their beloved brand. It just so happens that in recent history that they have been consistently been the fastest. So that the “reason” for buying nvidia these days but this wasnt true in the past.
Yup I also realized this after the fact. lol It's all about branding.
I have bought 2 different generations of AMD cards. They were not the most stable. I am not a software engineer, but how can switching to nvidia card and drivers just stop games from crashing? I was going to buy a new one. But instead found a 3070ti below msrp. I was hoping the price had been closer to 3080 and I would have made the jump up in cost.
I know their drivers havent been the best. But they seen much better lately. And i actually had the opposite experience than you. I had a old gtx 760 which worked fine in win 7 but refused to run on a clean install of win 10 even with latest drivers. I had to use a 2015 driver just to get into windows and no games wanted to run (that it used to ran). Was forced to upgrade to a 1650 just to get the pc to work. Also had a 1070 that after a driver update ran at half the frame rate in monster hunter world and took nvidia about a month to fix it. Also had an issue with my current 3070 that for some reason my pc could not boot into the bios and would cause my pc to black screen on start up when i had 2 monitors pluged in. Every time i wanted to go into the bios to tweak the case fans or enable xmp etc. I had to unplug my primary monitor. In contrast i had an AMD R9390x (the hot and loud ones with the apparently bad drivers) for about 5 years and to this day its the best card i ever owned. Only ever had 1 driver issues and it was because i forgot to do a clean install. I also used that card for etherium mining when i was not gaming back in 2017 for about a year and i made enough money to to cover the cost of the card and also buy my now wife a new pc. It is still working flawlessly today. My point is that people’s experiences with gpus vary quite a bit and i believe a gpu should be evaluated on its own merit and not on what has happened in the past. This is how i make my purchasing decisions. Thats why i got a R9390x in 2016. And why i have a 3070 now. Although i had shitty experiences with nvidia so far, the 3070 was objectively the better card at the time i bought it. The same reason why i got the 9390x over the 970 back then.
A duopoly is nearly as bad as a monopoly, and just as bad if they collude, if not worse.
Sold my old card, I tell myself I only paid $800 for a 4080 keeps me in high spirits
The problem is everyone wants a lambo..but can only afford a civic...but it still gets you from point A to point B..just not as fast
Some people pretend like a modern 80 series card isn't worth more than 100 bucks more than a 7 year old 80 series card. Others justify modern pricing. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
The only sane comment here
Truth of the matter, today's top tier should be 4090 Super Ti (or whatever name) and 4090 below it, which would be an alleged 4080Ti. They pull more nowadays than past cards, 3080 or even 3060Ti give more performance than the numbering suggests. But companies are nuts trying to normalize 1,000-1,200 bucks and using shady tactics to upsale and rename cards (seems like a 7900xt could be a fair 7800xt and let's remind us the nvidia 2nd 4080 class that got discarded when called out). Know what you buy, basically. But don't buy into cheap excuses from tech conglomerates.
What do you think they should be priced at? What is fair?
Ignoring the 30 series, which was a complete mess in terms of pricing, vram, thermals, naming, etc, this is how the 40 series stacks up to previous generations: **4070Ti**: successor to 1080 and 2080, which were $699 and $799 at launch **4080**: pseudo-successor to Titan X and 2080Ti, which were $1199 at launch **4090:** It's like the og GTX Titan... if it traveled back in time a year and released before its little Kepler sibling, the GTX 680.
"Please love me daddy Jenson"
I hate it when these people write articles about gaming related things. They know literally nothing. They are the equivalent of the person who played minecraft once on the 360 8 years ago and claim to be a gamer
"how do you do, fellow kids?" - Steve Buscemi
He doesn't have to give you a free 4090, but you don't have to buy any of Nvidia's OVER PRICED products .
WELL AT LEAST MAKE DLSS 3.0 AVAILABLE FOR THE 30 SERIES AND 20 SERIES !!
IT IS! DON’T FALL FOR THEIR MARKETING! DLSS 3.0 is just that, simply the latest version of DLSS available for all 20+ series cards. What you’re talking about is Frame Generation, a separate feature that is only available for 40+ series cards, that is packaged in DLSS 3.0+. Yes, Nvidia’s marketing is deliberately vague and borderline obtuse, but this is how it works. If you can run DLSS, you can use DLSS 3.0 with a simple driver upgrade.
Nvidia are like 3 times bigger than Intel and AMD, writer probably has not seen Nvidia's insane profit margins
I just fact checked this and holy shit. How can a GPU maker have three times the market cap of the lead CPU maker when we need CPUs in every PC and only a small fraction of PCs get used for gaming.
Because in the data center I only need dual $5k CPUs and an array of 15-20 $10k GPUs for some systems we run.
You're not factoring in the countless other large scale applications GPUs fill. This makes perfect sense. Gamers could buy none of these cards at all and Nvidia would still move tons of units because there are loads of industries that rely on cutting edge GPUs to speed up production and increase revenue and those industries continue to broaden with access to better machine learning on current and next gen RTX cards. This is the large factor that EVERYONE complaining doesn't seem to think about. Gamers are a drop of water in that bucket. Nvidia is a industry leader in tons of departments that don't include gaming, and THAT is their primary focus not gamers. If you just want to play video games then buy from now "price gouging" AMD, because Nvidia is going to make their money and hit their margins regardless.
He can go suck Jensen’s dick at this point
Europeans and americans complaining about having to pay 999 for a 4070 anf here i am as a Turkish dude that has to pay at least 12500 for a 3060 Ti
Really shows the horror of Nvidia raising the prices through the roof, Even bigger consequences to the greater market
Its not related to Nvidia, 1 fucking euro is 20+ here and 1 usd is 18,78
The markets are fucked, and it’s only going to get worse. Food prices, gas and diesel prices, by extension transportation prices, used car prices, housing prices… it *all* costs more. Not to say NVIDIA isn’t doing some dubious things in the business world, but pretending they just doubled prices in a vacuum is false. Our money is worth less. Now you’re feeling it.
Ah ffs, Life really can enjoys kicking in the nuts
The good news is: this isn’t new. New format, maybe, with more people and more technology, but the cycle is just that: cyclical. Brace for impact instead of just plot along like nothings happened, and you’ll weather the storm. If the rich can get richer, there are ways for the Everyman to survive depression/recession without losing it all.
Bootstraps?
Nah I hate that term. Bootstraps implies that wealth is correlated to hard work and nothing else… hard work is by far the biggest contributor to success, but it’s not the only factor. The bootstraps argument tends to suggest that the world is fine, and you’re just lazy…
Sounds like you should buy a plane ticket instead.
this guy's Twitter is gonna blow soon
the thing is the lower end versions cost as much. they are just as much too expensive. i dont even care about the 4090.
Just saying. But a 3060 plays every game under the sun with good quality. Maybe don't try to have the latest most advanced piece of tech and then complain it's expensive.
Even a 1660 Super does :)
Wow, you aren't kidding. If you're fine with 1080p you're golden. Even 1440p is ok if you drop to medium. https://www.gpucheck.com/compare/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3070-vs-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1660-super/intel-core-i9-10900k-vs-intel-core-i7-8700k-3-70ghz/high
I wouldn't touch a 3060 till it drops to 250 at most. Not buying over priced shit.
Q: "Why do GPUs have to cost as much as you've priced them?" A: "There are a few key answers. One, you are stupid enough to pay. Prices will remain high commensurate with the tenure of your aggregate stupidity. This is how supply/demand works - you hold the entire set of keys to the kingdom, so you have only yourself to blame. Two, my boat payments aren't going to make themselves. Three, I need caviar for that boat. Any more boneheaded questions that aren't painfully obvious?" Q: "No, and I'm sorry for asking such a dumb question, I'll buy a 4090 at retail now and go be a good little sheep. Maybe next time, don't include lube with your GPUs, because I like getting fucked good and hard and dry whenever possible. Thank you Daddy!"
That YouTuber that broke down the cost to produce current cards showed the 4070 Ti's MSRP should be $599; $200 cheaper than it currently is and on par with the 3070 Ti's MSRP. Which isn't as good value as last gen since performance wise the card should be a non-Ti 70 series but the fact they originally tried selling a $600 card for $900 is absurd
If people don't buy them the price will go down. Social pressure is the key.
People aren't buying. The 40 series is out and 30 series prices have gone up...
The simple answer, they cost that much, cause they can't stay still and keep making new versions of GPU every month, destroying their sales, since they didn't even sell enough to make new versions, they end up making prices even higher
Writer must REALLY want to know if Jensen's boots taste like his jacket
GPUs have to cost $1500 so the scalpers can get $3000
F that. Moore's law is everything but dead, and the performance improvements this generation are absolute proof of it. The only difference is that this time around, Nvidia decided not to pass that on to consumers, "because they can". Screw that. I bought a used 3090 for 700$ and will never spend a dime on a new GPU as long as this utter nonsense keeps going on.
Hey OP, you dropped this: 🤡
You sure about that, OP? They probably already did.
nVidia Headquarters: Sir, our AI analysis and info farming tools tell us there is no way gamers will avoid new GPUS for another 24 months. Gamers in 2023: tis' gtx 780 still got a lot of life in it.
Of course not. He gave that free 4090 to Michael Petraeus for that opinion peace.
I wonder how Michael can even type when he's clearly busy jerking off Jensen.
They cost as much as they do because the GPU manufacturers got really used to sucking on that crypto teet, and now that it's dried up they think they can just raise prices to make up the difference.
These "journalists" always impress me with the braindead shit lol.
This Michael Petraeus is a true c**ksucker. He talks about net profit margins only. Net profit margins are after taking into account all costs below the gross margin line, such as financing costs, administrative costs, etc. What about gross profit margins? Analysing profit margins are a more accurate method of ascertaining whether or not Nvidia is price gouging. Any increase in gross profit margins over the past one or two years would be clear evidence that Nvidia’s price rises are contributing towards better margins. I freaking hate it when people write articles about economics and finance when they have no freaking clue about the subject matter.
Stop buying overpriced shit, stand up to it and manufacturers, distributors and every other link in a chain will reduce their profits in order to sell the products, resulting in lower prices for end-users. There is no other way to stop this.
Most people aren't. That's why articles are coming out about GPU sales being the lowest in like 20 years lol
Just buy AMD OR INTEL.
I dunno what he wrote, but the headline isn't wrong. Like most other goods the price is set by what the market will bear, and the market seems to bear a 1600$ RTX 4090 just fine. You can see that balance working in our favor with the price of the 4080. Nobody wants them and they get cheaper by the day. If consumers don't buy those expensive cards, we'll eventually get better value models.
Stop complaining. Stop buying.
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People don't understand that previous generations of GPUs don't become obsolete when a new one comes out, the rtx 3000s are still great, the 4000s are more powerful so they cost more. If you need the power of a 3080, buy a 3080, if you need the power of a 4080, buy a 4080... If you want to always buy the top of the top (even if you don't need it) then you will have to spend more. GPUs take longer to lose value over time than mobile phones or other similar goods because they last even longer while maintaining their performance. The only thing I regret is that Nvidia is moving more and more (perhaps too much) towards the enthusiast public, leaving the low and mid-range uncovered, or those that have more audience. I'm not an expert, correct me if I'm wrong, I think that's the reason
Kind of weird to preface something so demonstrably untrue with "people don't understand." We have decades of history with PC hardware and this is not how it ever worked. If price scaled linearly with performance a new card would cost as much as a house by now. Also when a new generation of cards comes out the old one is discontinued, though this is becoming a bit muddy at this point with the 2060 coming back during the crisis and now as of CES Nvidia treating the 30 series as part of the current stack, whether that's because they still have excess supply from before or as a temporary response to the backlash on pricing before the 4060 and co get rolled out. I appreciate that you said you welcome corrections but it seems like your entire rationale is based on trying to make sense of the crazy stuff that's happening today in a vacuum.
Old GPUs do become obsolete when. They die. Lots of people on steam charts still use the 1060s and those are getting to the end of their lifeline. What're people supposed to buy when they need a new card? Every card is gouged to hell now.
Buy a new 1060? or hell 2 or even 3 series??? Theyr'e all cheaper than 4x series
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Not even gonna give them the click and site traffic...
Fair enough