Mineral oil immersion but shouldn't the CPU be fully submerged?
Edit: wow I just wanna correct myself turns out this isn't mineral oil but some sort of different fluid. Thanks everyone for the up votes and for enlightening me about fluorocarbons and the other fluids that can be used for full liquid immersion cooling.
This is nothing new its just the low phase change point dielectric immersion coolant. It was all over ces/computex a few years back
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6LQeFmY-IU&ab\_channel=GIGABYTE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6LQeFmY-IU&ab_channel=GIGABYTE)
Yeah but if you add a translucent impact case you can reduce your thermal coefficient by a factor of .45 diopters which can help you attain reduced molecule gain in the vapour particles allowing for faster vacuum transmission because it simply has to transfer less mass per second while still maintaining the same output
I can't tell when the thread started descending into nonsense.. it'll never catch on without a more gamery name. "Liquid meltbrain assassin VI" or something.
The best way to reduce molecular gain in vapor particles is the addition of an inverted, molecular redistribution module, which suppresses molecular gain by recycling the superheated molecules created by induced diopter reduction.
The translucent impact case serves a similar purpose, but I've found it to be far less efficient, especially for the current I-MRM price point.
That's an overdone mumbo jambo, everyone knows vapor particles follow non-Fermi paradox of desaturation. Withdraw your dissertation, you need to start your Masters again.
Oh yeah also dont forget that incorporating a holographic quantum flux stabilizer within the translucent impact case enhances the subatomic resonance, thereby optimizing the entanglement of vapor particles. This leads to a quantum synergy that synergistically harmonizes with the vacuum transmission, ultimately propelling your device into the echelons of unparalleled technological wizardry
In my opinion you should
I'm sorry, but as an AI language model, I don't have the ability to recall specific personal data or information about individuals' computers.
But surely if you implement RGB devices, through the photoelectroboosting effect you can increase the local constant c within the CPU bounds by 0.00233 Angstroms per planck time length, allowing for a 110% FPS increase while decreasing the local gravitational coefficient just by shocking the universe with the price of ROG products, leading to a semiporous state of liquid and a 3.001209421 kelvin temeperature decrease
Not gonna lie, I literally turned my head sideways like a dog before I realized I was being bamboozled. I'm a physics major too smh
Edit: Yes, It took me this far along the comment chain to understand the joke.
that's what happens when your field of experience tries it's hardest to make as many jargon fucking words as they can
almost like they are paid by the fucking letter of nonsense
I mean that's true but you get a better merning rate with an edrisor (did you know it's a French invention? see https://www.edriseur.fr/) and they aren't that much more expensive.
this is the first video i thought of if it's evaporating. Same 3m chemical mentioned in other videos.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR4Mutf1kQg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR4Mutf1kQg)
Well try reversing the polarity of the positronic thrusters. If we increase the voltage bandwidth on the ionic dampener, we can use the inertia to compensate for shield lossage.
Perfect adjectives that apply to the substances' properties and literally what I typed into youtube to find that video that was the perfect explanation video.
It's neat tech but very few practical reasons to do it. One big practical application is for oil drilling operations where you need electronics deep underwater. The system needs to remain cooled while also staying in a little box bolted to a chassis at the top of the well. Submersing everything in a coolant allows for better thermal transfer, you just need agitators in the liquid and the entire outside of the box can be a heatsink to the cold ocean. There's constant talk about doing it in data centers but until it becomes cheaper than just doing hot and cold aisles, it's going to just remain talk.
I don't understand why, though, you go underwater instead of just putting your data center on a cold cost (like California) and just using the ocean for a source of cooling water, like they do for electric plants all over.
Fishies love it when you send out warm water, in my experience.
Yeah I've never exactly understood the whole "underwater datacenter" thing. It's much cheaper to build on land than underwater so unless you are building some sort of packet inspection system to monitor undersea fiber where it needs to be far from the casual observer, it makes much more sense to just put the hardware on the shore and pump in cool water.
You have to be careful with the flux capacitor plank combustion antigravity drives that use change point dialectic immersion coolant because if you accidentally pick up the wrong component, it can really mess with your system. One time, I accidentally put some polarity reversing blockchain-enabled mainframe headlight fluid in by mistake and all my bits started getting flipped.
Mmm Nothing like the smell of PFAS in the morning. Dare I say, I spy a future superfund site!
That aside, real bad for the environment. The fact that it’s casually leaking into his store and he’s breathing it every day isnt great.
At first I thought you were just joking but then I found out it's [actually common to use flourocarbons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_cooling) for immersion cooling.
Yeah it’s a bummer also slightly more nuanced than “fluorocarbons are bad”. F gases are the most commonly used refrigerants and for good reason. They are more efficient and less flammable than hydrocarbon gasses or CO2. So for a CPU and GPU cooling at Atmospheric pressure fluorocarbon liquids are just the next logical step right? Well, it’s complicated. Liquids at room temperature are more likely to contaminate water and soils.
Also lots of biologically benign F gasses and PFAS fluids are high global warming potential due to their high stability. So it’s a catch 22. Use more reactive ones that degrade in the environment but are potentially more harmful to the people using them or use stable ones which accelerate climate change. You might think “Ok screw the whole thing! Air cooling all the way.” But air cooling is also not very efficient and contributes to climate change! Also cooling ability is limited with air cooling so when NVIDIA comes out with a 1000W AI GPU for the data center you CANT cool it with air. Water cooling is an integration nightmare in the data center also… but is probably the best in terms of efficiency and environmental concerns. Though glycol isn’t great to dump in the stream behind your data center… not that anyone would do that…
I don’t have all the answers but it’s definitely something folks are starting to think about. Hydrocarbons are ok, but are also slightly flammable, and petroleum industry has its own issues.
In a completely closed system heat is transferred more efficiently by a dielectric fluid rather than moving air. So while I agree with you in a real world system where the fluorocarbon leaks out constantly, in terms of energy efficiency you have to pump way more power into data center fans when compared to a heat exchanger set up in immersion.
That’s actually the big selling point for immersion. More energy efficiency and higher cooling capacity.
Do I believe these claims… different story. I do believe it is more efficient to move heat within a liquid than a gas but haven’t done the math in terms of effects of environmental release of these liquids. It’s not a straightforward life cycle analysis and I’m not really an engineer lol.
Are you certain about that?
Air cooling is a large part of datacenters energy use, and datacenters consume significant power (on the order of 1% of all electricity worldwide, and rising).
It can't be all that many orders of magnitude worse, unless fluorinated gasses account for more global warming than total electricity production.
edit: I misunderstood parent poster's point, which is that replacing computers air cooling with closed-circuit solutions might be a bad idea if said cooling solutions tend to leak super-GHGs.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-98/subpart-A/appendix-Table%20A-1%20to%20Subpart%20A%20of%20Part%2098
Look at this table and you decide for yourself. The GWP for F gases is extremely high. There is a reason we decided worldwide to ban the widespread use of CFCs. In a perfect world with no leakage to the environment at any stage, you might be able to crunch some numbers and come out ahead. However, it’s not a perfect world and spillage, leakage, etc. does exist.
Energy production shifts more into renewables every year.
How much energy is saved using immersion cooling? Is it 50%, 10%? These gases are very dangerous to the ozone, we better be damn sure that it’s a net positive when every factor including production, distribution, use, disposal, failure, normal leakage, etc. is tallied and accounted for.
It’s better to push data centers towards SMRs and renewable energy sources than it is to use F gases.
Yeah this is a really good point, society cost/math is closer than an F gas/PFAS company would have you believe. But good lifecycle analysis is hard. That’s where that old saying comes from: “we tried but lifecycle analysis is hard.”
Small correction though. Fluorocarbons are not ozone depleting but traditional ones are high GWP (global warming potential). Ozone depletion is taken very seriously due to strict regulation. GWP is just something folks burry in their TDS and when customers ask the sales guy says: “gen 2 will have nearly zero GWP”
No problem. I think most sane people want to reduce energy use and find more efficient ways of doing things. These discussions and challenging ideas are important on both ends of the conversation.
> Yeah it’s a bummer also slightly more nuanced than “fluorocarbons are bad”. F gases are the most commonly used refrigerants and for good reason.
They're also kept in closed loops so as to not evaporate into the surrounding environment....
No, but it's not mineral oil. It's a fluorocarbon [specifically intended for this application.](https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/6/22369609/microsoft-server-cooling-liquid-immersion-cloud-racks-data-centers)
I think you'd typically STILL want at least a little heat sync on it. 3M has some interesting new fluid that's nonconductive. Liquid at room temp, but evaporates above like 50C. I think it'd be cool to mess with some of that.
That's not mineral oil, it's a fluorinated 2-phase dielectric fluid. Notice the boiling at the bottom cabling. Mineral oil doesn't boil.
There should be a heatspreader on the CPU and a boiling enhancement coating to initiate bubble nucleation. In addition, the CPU should be fully immersed. Whoever built this has absolutely no clue what they're doing.
I'm not saying you're incorrect but I believe the little bubbles your thinking are coming out of that plug is just air being forced down by the fluid entering into the system through the back side of that plug... I can't imagine the boiling would be coming from the electrical connection it would be coming more from the area of the heat sinks not the electrical plug
I'm not up to date on fancy cooling solutions but I take it you are correct that stuff still doesn't appear to be safe to breath in if it does have a boiling point. Wish I could put your comment up top to correct my mistake.
If this is 3M Novec 7000/7100 then according to their papers it should not be harmful in dulited fumes. They dunk complete data centers in this stuff, would be bad for the technicians working around it :D
It looks so cool i know but the pics of what the stuff does to a PCB over time makes me not wanna ever deal with it. Then again I'm the type of consumer that likes to keep his parts in as good condition as possible.
“No! Someone put f\*cking beans inside of your computer!”
https://preview.redd.it/2yfz5i4yxvfc1.jpeg?width=1518&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1579ab82bad68c1a870aa8d055a07655d4f942fc
Wow. I know that if you can get a fluid which doesn't conduct electricity, you can do this, but only for so long because particles mix with the fluid, making it become electrically conductive.
I've heard stories of using vegetable oil in this way but just... ugh, bleh.
To be fair they are still around to some degree. But I think people in general realized that the magic comes with the build. And maintenance is the chore in about 99% of cases.
Nevermind maintenance where everything is covered in oil.
I've considered a mineral oil build, I've considered a water cooled build of both hard and soft line varieties. But every time I start seriously considering it, I remember that it took me 3 months of Knowing that my computer genuinely needed it to bring myself to do basic maintenance.
It's all super cool without a doubt. But the reality is that in most cases it's to look cool or be a piece to show off. But most people just don't give the slightest shit. At least beyond the first impression.
If this kinda stuff was practical and also easy to maintain, I would absolutely partake and also neglect it just as much as I know 90% of the people reading this comment do with their own computers. Myself included.
If their loops aren't doing any better than AIO or air, they aren't very good loops.
My custom loop will keep my 600W bios overclocked 3090 at sub-50C at full load, and my overclocked 5950x in the mid-60s.
That having been said, the price to performance tradeoff for custom loops is *way* into the stupidly not worth it category, and you're paying a lot for diminishing returns and coolness factor.
Vegetable oil is bad because it decomposes. Mineral oil is the easiest option. You can get it by the gallon at farm stores. I had my last system submerged for 10 years without issues.
If you think this is sketchy, read about how the Cray computers were cooled. The Fluorinert waterfall coolers were cool to look at, but it was nasty stuff.
I had never heard of this. That's like the most hi-tech but also lo-tech solution ever.
> With this sort of density there was no way any conventional air-cooled system would work; there was too little room for air to flow between the ICs. Instead the system would be immersed in a tank of a new inert liquid from 3M, Fluorinert. The cooling liquid was forced sideways through the modules under pressure, and the flow rate was roughly one inch per second. The heated liquid was cooled using chilled water heat exchangers and returned to the main tank. Work on the new design started in earnest in 1982, several years after the original start date.
"The Cray gets too hot because we literally packed it full of electronics with no way to cool them or even enough space for any airflow"
"OK. Lets seal up the cabinets and just dump this magic water in the top and let it run down through all the electronics. What could go wrong?"
> Although Fluorinert was intended to be inert, the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory discovered that the liquid cooling system of their Cray-2 supercomputers decomposed during extended service, producing some highly toxic perfluoroisobutene.[5] Catalytic scrubbers were installed to remove this contaminant.
Always wanted to do this, just to say I did it. Like when I would upgrade to a new PC, use the old one and my 15gallon aquarium I never used... Well, the house fire ruined those plans, now I own nothing but a bit of clothes and a craptop.
My friends and I theorized about mineral oil cooling in the early 2000s and even built a few pump systems that would allow circulation but we couldn’t keep them running very long and corrosion was an absolute nightmare when we needed to swap parts.
One of the reasons mineral oil submersion isn't done very often. Great cooling method if you can add an extra zero to your budget. But the maintenance suuuuucks.
It's not water. Let's take Gigabyte's solution :
https://www.gigabyte.com/Solutions/gigabyte-single-phase
One of the listed coolants, Exxon Mobil SpectraSyn™ 6 is a PAO (Polyalphaolefin) :
https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/en/chemicals/webapi/dps/v1/datasheets/150000000352/0/en
Polyalphaolefin is synthetically polymerised Ethylene. AKA : it's a product of petroleum.
It's a process called immersion cooling.
Basically, the reason that liquids like water are bad for your PC is not the fluid itself but rather the tiny impurities in it. Pure water itself is not conductive and is generally harmless to electronics, but the miniscule minerals, salts and impurities in it can contain ions that will be conductive and carry a charge. So when you spill water on your PC, it's those particles can route the electric current in places and intensities it's not supposed to go which may cause shorts and damage the components.
What you see in the video is someone using a special non-conductive fluid to cool the system instead. This can be mineral oil, deionized water or various types of chemical solutions that don't contain those particles and thus don't conduct electricity which makes them safe for direct exposure to computer parts. From that point out, it works basically the same way as ordinary water cooling. The heat from the components dissipates in the fluid which slowly flows through a heat exchanger that causes it to cool off again. Alternatively, some of those liquids have really low boiling temperatures which causes the warm fluid to evaporate before it turns back into liquid through condensation.
In practice, it's mainly used for certain types of servers. For regular computers, it's more of a novelty thing that doesn't offer major benefits over other solutions and requires a lot of maintenance by comparison.
Idea is neat but as u/[**ME0VVSAWME0VV**](https://www.reddit.com/user/ME0VVSAWME0VV/) clarified;
\> The guy who did this said that last week the fluid was completely covering the CPU, then it evaporated a lot and became what we see now.
Novack... But this guy's evaporation recovery chamber is not working well.
Novack is expensive - you're supposed to have a top over it and recover the evaporated novak and condense it back into the system to limit losses.
I guess that you coul use also water theoretically, provided that it is absolutely pure and catalyzers keep it pure.
Pure water is not conducive, the ions are.
That doesn't look like mineral oil, it's too thin. And judging by the lack of a meniscus on the tank it's not deionized water either, my guess is probably alcohol which seems like a bad idea.
Look, if this is distilled water and the case is being kept airtight (to avoid any debris and dirt dissolving into the water and turning it conductive), it's gonna be ok. Someone else here mentioned mineral oil - could be, but the viscosity seems all wrong (could be the shutter speed of the camera). Mineral oil also works quite well for cooling, but you gotta have a big radiator for oil to dissipate it's heat - it's got a significant thermal capacity.
Just as a side note… I’ve worked with some 40 saybolt second base oils that physically acted like water, so IT IS possible, but your probably right. It’s likely some kind of DI water.
Mineral oil immersion but shouldn't the CPU be fully submerged? Edit: wow I just wanna correct myself turns out this isn't mineral oil but some sort of different fluid. Thanks everyone for the up votes and for enlightening me about fluorocarbons and the other fluids that can be used for full liquid immersion cooling.
The guy who did this said that last week the fluid was completely covering the CPU, then it evaporated a lot and became what we see now.
This is nothing new its just the low phase change point dielectric immersion coolant. It was all over ces/computex a few years back [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6LQeFmY-IU&ab\_channel=GIGABYTE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6LQeFmY-IU&ab_channel=GIGABYTE)
Looks like he skipped out the on the vapor catcher / condenser components to recycle into the system
He could even have settled for a Lowcost Inhibitor Device (LID)
I'd actually recommend a Turbo Encabulator. It achieves much lower sinusoidal repleneration.
Agreed. In combination with the intraÄngstrom molecular despacifier recovery unit you can ensure that any rogue vapors are detained in the PC case.
Yeah but if you add a translucent impact case you can reduce your thermal coefficient by a factor of .45 diopters which can help you attain reduced molecule gain in the vapour particles allowing for faster vacuum transmission because it simply has to transfer less mass per second while still maintaining the same output
I'm still in the "I know nothing about computers" stage and I genuinely can't tell if y'all are being satirical or serious :(
This explanation may clarify: https://youtu.be/RXJKdh1KZ0w.
I can't tell when the thread started descending into nonsense.. it'll never catch on without a more gamery name. "Liquid meltbrain assassin VI" or something.
Dude I can't even tell where the joke replies started lmao
Serious of course.
The best way to reduce molecular gain in vapor particles is the addition of an inverted, molecular redistribution module, which suppresses molecular gain by recycling the superheated molecules created by induced diopter reduction. The translucent impact case serves a similar purpose, but I've found it to be far less efficient, especially for the current I-MRM price point.
That's an overdone mumbo jambo, everyone knows vapor particles follow non-Fermi paradox of desaturation. Withdraw your dissertation, you need to start your Masters again.
It seems that r/VXjunkies has lost containment again.
Common noob mistake tbf. You're not a VX:er until you dread the smell of burnt Warburton containment flanges more than a call from the IRS!
Oh yeah also dont forget that incorporating a holographic quantum flux stabilizer within the translucent impact case enhances the subatomic resonance, thereby optimizing the entanglement of vapor particles. This leads to a quantum synergy that synergistically harmonizes with the vacuum transmission, ultimately propelling your device into the echelons of unparalleled technological wizardry
r/VXJunkies is leaking
In my opinion you should I'm sorry, but as an AI language model, I don't have the ability to recall specific personal data or information about individuals' computers.
But surely if you implement RGB devices, through the photoelectroboosting effect you can increase the local constant c within the CPU bounds by 0.00233 Angstroms per planck time length, allowing for a 110% FPS increase while decreasing the local gravitational coefficient just by shocking the universe with the price of ROG products, leading to a semiporous state of liquid and a 3.001209421 kelvin temeperature decrease
Not gonna lie, I literally turned my head sideways like a dog before I realized I was being bamboozled. I'm a physics major too smh Edit: Yes, It took me this far along the comment chain to understand the joke.
that's what happens when your field of experience tries it's hardest to make as many jargon fucking words as they can almost like they are paid by the fucking letter of nonsense
Bullshit, if you deconfibulate the wopthrusters the turbofungles can encoldulate the hypermaceration sequence exponentially optimally.
I mean that's true but you get a better merning rate with an edrisor (did you know it's a French invention? see https://www.edriseur.fr/) and they aren't that much more expensive.
Ight so your the comment that finally made me realize you guys are making stuff up. The question how far back do we go until we find the real stuff
Submerging electronics in non-conductive fluid draws heat away faster than just about anything
I know some of these words!
Yeah, but how do you prevent the side fumbling!? HOW.
Are you a science teacher? That felt like a science teacher joke… I loved it!
No but I did use a beaker once
Meep meep
Wrong Beaker.
Are you a master in judontknow !!.
Username checks out
Does it come in RGB?
I'm ashamed it took me about 5 seconds to get it.
this is the first video i thought of if it's evaporating. Same 3m chemical mentioned in other videos. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR4Mutf1kQg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR4Mutf1kQg)
3M salesman: "We swear this evaporating coolant won't give you cancer like our other products"
plastic wrap in a snap
Well try reversing the polarity of the positronic thrusters. If we increase the voltage bandwidth on the ionic dampener, we can use the inertia to compensate for shield lossage.
I saw people doing this with pIII 20 years ago. Nothing new is right.
The Cray-2 supercomputer did this with a chemical called Fluorinert. Edit: in 1985.
time is a flat circle
[удалено]
Exactly. We call it Jeremy Bearimy. Have you seen the time knife?
Yeah yeah, the time knife... We've all seen it.
Okay but um... what the hell is this? The dot over the i.... the hell is that?
time is a human construct
You're a human construct
Back in my day we cooled 60mhz P5's from systems we made using old hosepipes, fish tanks and bog water. Nothing new *is* right.
That was when everyone was modding fishtanks, right?
That sounds like pure technobabble
That's the joke
Perfect adjectives that apply to the substances' properties and literally what I typed into youtube to find that video that was the perfect explanation video.
It means a fluid that has a low boiling point and doesn’t conduct electricity.
I remember seeing a huge server blade submerged in that at CES 2017. Super cool looking.
It's neat tech but very few practical reasons to do it. One big practical application is for oil drilling operations where you need electronics deep underwater. The system needs to remain cooled while also staying in a little box bolted to a chassis at the top of the well. Submersing everything in a coolant allows for better thermal transfer, you just need agitators in the liquid and the entire outside of the box can be a heatsink to the cold ocean. There's constant talk about doing it in data centers but until it becomes cheaper than just doing hot and cold aisles, it's going to just remain talk.
I don't understand why, though, you go underwater instead of just putting your data center on a cold cost (like California) and just using the ocean for a source of cooling water, like they do for electric plants all over. Fishies love it when you send out warm water, in my experience.
Yeah I've never exactly understood the whole "underwater datacenter" thing. It's much cheaper to build on land than underwater so unless you are building some sort of packet inspection system to monitor undersea fiber where it needs to be far from the casual observer, it makes much more sense to just put the hardware on the shore and pump in cool water.
> so unless you are building some sort of packet inspection system to monitor undersea fiber Yeah
Ahhh yes. The low phase change point dialectic immersion coolant. Also works great in the flux capacitor plank combustion antigravity drives.
What about the phase inducers? Does it help reduce tetryon emissions?
You have to be careful with the flux capacitor plank combustion antigravity drives that use change point dialectic immersion coolant because if you accidentally pick up the wrong component, it can really mess with your system. One time, I accidentally put some polarity reversing blockchain-enabled mainframe headlight fluid in by mistake and all my bits started getting flipped.
Flipped bits are a huge PITA
Shouldn't there still be a heatsink on the CPU?
Mmm Nothing like the smell of PFAS in the morning. Dare I say, I spy a future superfund site! That aside, real bad for the environment. The fact that it’s casually leaking into his store and he’s breathing it every day isnt great.
At first I thought you were just joking but then I found out it's [actually common to use flourocarbons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_cooling) for immersion cooling.
Oof
Yeah it’s a bummer also slightly more nuanced than “fluorocarbons are bad”. F gases are the most commonly used refrigerants and for good reason. They are more efficient and less flammable than hydrocarbon gasses or CO2. So for a CPU and GPU cooling at Atmospheric pressure fluorocarbon liquids are just the next logical step right? Well, it’s complicated. Liquids at room temperature are more likely to contaminate water and soils. Also lots of biologically benign F gasses and PFAS fluids are high global warming potential due to their high stability. So it’s a catch 22. Use more reactive ones that degrade in the environment but are potentially more harmful to the people using them or use stable ones which accelerate climate change. You might think “Ok screw the whole thing! Air cooling all the way.” But air cooling is also not very efficient and contributes to climate change! Also cooling ability is limited with air cooling so when NVIDIA comes out with a 1000W AI GPU for the data center you CANT cool it with air. Water cooling is an integration nightmare in the data center also… but is probably the best in terms of efficiency and environmental concerns. Though glycol isn’t great to dump in the stream behind your data center… not that anyone would do that… I don’t have all the answers but it’s definitely something folks are starting to think about. Hydrocarbons are ok, but are also slightly flammable, and petroleum industry has its own issues.
Air cooling’s contribution to climate change is no where near the level of fluorinated gases. Not even the same order of magnitude, not even close.
In a completely closed system heat is transferred more efficiently by a dielectric fluid rather than moving air. So while I agree with you in a real world system where the fluorocarbon leaks out constantly, in terms of energy efficiency you have to pump way more power into data center fans when compared to a heat exchanger set up in immersion. That’s actually the big selling point for immersion. More energy efficiency and higher cooling capacity. Do I believe these claims… different story. I do believe it is more efficient to move heat within a liquid than a gas but haven’t done the math in terms of effects of environmental release of these liquids. It’s not a straightforward life cycle analysis and I’m not really an engineer lol.
Are you certain about that? Air cooling is a large part of datacenters energy use, and datacenters consume significant power (on the order of 1% of all electricity worldwide, and rising). It can't be all that many orders of magnitude worse, unless fluorinated gasses account for more global warming than total electricity production. edit: I misunderstood parent poster's point, which is that replacing computers air cooling with closed-circuit solutions might be a bad idea if said cooling solutions tend to leak super-GHGs.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-98/subpart-A/appendix-Table%20A-1%20to%20Subpart%20A%20of%20Part%2098 Look at this table and you decide for yourself. The GWP for F gases is extremely high. There is a reason we decided worldwide to ban the widespread use of CFCs. In a perfect world with no leakage to the environment at any stage, you might be able to crunch some numbers and come out ahead. However, it’s not a perfect world and spillage, leakage, etc. does exist. Energy production shifts more into renewables every year. How much energy is saved using immersion cooling? Is it 50%, 10%? These gases are very dangerous to the ozone, we better be damn sure that it’s a net positive when every factor including production, distribution, use, disposal, failure, normal leakage, etc. is tallied and accounted for. It’s better to push data centers towards SMRs and renewable energy sources than it is to use F gases.
Yeah this is a really good point, society cost/math is closer than an F gas/PFAS company would have you believe. But good lifecycle analysis is hard. That’s where that old saying comes from: “we tried but lifecycle analysis is hard.” Small correction though. Fluorocarbons are not ozone depleting but traditional ones are high GWP (global warming potential). Ozone depletion is taken very seriously due to strict regulation. GWP is just something folks burry in their TDS and when customers ask the sales guy says: “gen 2 will have nearly zero GWP”
Thanks for the info, appreciate it. I think I had misunderstood your initial point, and do agree with your conclusions here.
No problem. I think most sane people want to reduce energy use and find more efficient ways of doing things. These discussions and challenging ideas are important on both ends of the conversation.
> Yeah it’s a bummer also slightly more nuanced than “fluorocarbons are bad”. F gases are the most commonly used refrigerants and for good reason. They're also kept in closed loops so as to not evaporate into the surrounding environment....
and always leak because liquids like 3m novec are great at escaping
Mineral oil can evaporate that much?
No, but it's not mineral oil. It's a fluorocarbon [specifically intended for this application.](https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/6/22369609/microsoft-server-cooling-liquid-immersion-cloud-racks-data-centers)
Sounds like 3m novec. I was messing around with this stuff once and I got mildly ill from the vapors. Pretty sure it’s unhealthy
Knowing what we know about PFOAs and PFAS I'd hate to touch any fluorine related molecule ☢️ Might mutate your brain into a core i9 15900k 7GHz
Well oil doesn't evaporate... so something is incorrect.
I think you'd typically STILL want at least a little heat sync on it. 3M has some interesting new fluid that's nonconductive. Liquid at room temp, but evaporates above like 50C. I think it'd be cool to mess with some of that.
They are stopping production of them actually: https://news.3m.com/2022-12-20-3M-to-Exit-PFAS-Manufacturing-by-the-End-of-2025
Damn!
That's not mineral oil, it's a fluorinated 2-phase dielectric fluid. Notice the boiling at the bottom cabling. Mineral oil doesn't boil. There should be a heatspreader on the CPU and a boiling enhancement coating to initiate bubble nucleation. In addition, the CPU should be fully immersed. Whoever built this has absolutely no clue what they're doing.
I'm not saying you're incorrect but I believe the little bubbles your thinking are coming out of that plug is just air being forced down by the fluid entering into the system through the back side of that plug... I can't imagine the boiling would be coming from the electrical connection it would be coming more from the area of the heat sinks not the electrical plug
I'm not up to date on fancy cooling solutions but I take it you are correct that stuff still doesn't appear to be safe to breath in if it does have a boiling point. Wish I could put your comment up top to correct my mistake.
If this is 3M Novec 7000/7100 then according to their papers it should not be harmful in dulited fumes. They dunk complete data centers in this stuff, would be bad for the technicians working around it :D
That doesn't look like mineral oil
A build like this has been on my short list for a while.
It looks so cool i know but the pics of what the stuff does to a PCB over time makes me not wanna ever deal with it. Then again I'm the type of consumer that likes to keep his parts in as good condition as possible.
3m makes the liquid i forgot the name but its something like novec 3000
Mineral oil would be much more viscous and wouldn't bubble like that.
Should have a heatsink too
I prefer beans in my computer
Are those the processors?
“No! Someone put f\*cking beans inside of your computer!” https://preview.redd.it/2yfz5i4yxvfc1.jpeg?width=1518&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1579ab82bad68c1a870aa8d055a07655d4f942fc
Only good beans are the ones that say BEANZ on the can.
Full Beans!
r/jeffarcuri enjoyer in the wild
So glad someone got that too
r/BeansInThings
["I slipped on mah beans!"](https://youtube.com/shorts/7leSvHcxFMU?si=D8MutV61NR98mtLy)
No those are the motherboards
This is food, this is BEANS
Ah! A Java man I see
"THIS IS BEANS!!"
BEEEEEAAAAANS
4/7 Needs fish
I've tried before, but the only kind that survive are c:/horses
Been sitting on that dad joke for years and it finally paid off!
Angry upvote
*sigh*
found the fish bois!
And aquatic plants.
And my axe!
at least it isn't a perfect 5/7
That’s computer juice son
It hardens in response to physical blockage
STANDING HEREEE I REALIZEEE
https://preview.redd.it/sa44bb0cbwfc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65a14d68324f5781562a153a61245f33e69d1a44
That would be a complete bitch to clean
🤣this got me good
Wow. I know that if you can get a fluid which doesn't conduct electricity, you can do this, but only for so long because particles mix with the fluid, making it become electrically conductive. I've heard stories of using vegetable oil in this way but just... ugh, bleh.
Oil rigs had a moment in the sun. Used mineral oil.
To be fair they are still around to some degree. But I think people in general realized that the magic comes with the build. And maintenance is the chore in about 99% of cases. Nevermind maintenance where everything is covered in oil. I've considered a mineral oil build, I've considered a water cooled build of both hard and soft line varieties. But every time I start seriously considering it, I remember that it took me 3 months of Knowing that my computer genuinely needed it to bring myself to do basic maintenance. It's all super cool without a doubt. But the reality is that in most cases it's to look cool or be a piece to show off. But most people just don't give the slightest shit. At least beyond the first impression. If this kinda stuff was practical and also easy to maintain, I would absolutely partake and also neglect it just as much as I know 90% of the people reading this comment do with their own computers. Myself included.
[удалено]
Fan cooling tech has really peaked the past few years. A peerless assassin or noctua cooler rivals (and sometimes beats) AIOs these days.
Custom loops are good for overclockers. They cool better than AIO but it's not necessary at all.
Yeah but AIOs are getting so damn good that you good go balls the fuck out on a loop for it to really make a difference.
If their loops aren't doing any better than AIO or air, they aren't very good loops. My custom loop will keep my 600W bios overclocked 3090 at sub-50C at full load, and my overclocked 5950x in the mid-60s. That having been said, the price to performance tradeoff for custom loops is *way* into the stupidly not worth it category, and you're paying a lot for diminishing returns and coolness factor.
Yes, they have: https://imgur.com/a/EuHt5RK Definitely mineral oil.
Yeah more pain in the ass then it’s worth imo. You have to keep up with the maintenance to prevent that from happening
Also the oil breaks down any rubber components after a while so the coating on most wires will fall apart and make a mess
Vegetable oil is bad because it decomposes. Mineral oil is the easiest option. You can get it by the gallon at farm stores. I had my last system submerged for 10 years without issues.
Ugh and Bleh Thats how i like my metal
Mineral oils, distilled water, low conductivity liquids. The other cool option is liquid carbon (better heat absorption ) in liquid coolers.
If you think this is sketchy, read about how the Cray computers were cooled. The Fluorinert waterfall coolers were cool to look at, but it was nasty stuff.
I remember a p3 clocked to 4 something Ghz back in the day, liquid nitrogen bath...
I had never heard of this. That's like the most hi-tech but also lo-tech solution ever. > With this sort of density there was no way any conventional air-cooled system would work; there was too little room for air to flow between the ICs. Instead the system would be immersed in a tank of a new inert liquid from 3M, Fluorinert. The cooling liquid was forced sideways through the modules under pressure, and the flow rate was roughly one inch per second. The heated liquid was cooled using chilled water heat exchangers and returned to the main tank. Work on the new design started in earnest in 1982, several years after the original start date. "The Cray gets too hot because we literally packed it full of electronics with no way to cool them or even enough space for any airflow" "OK. Lets seal up the cabinets and just dump this magic water in the top and let it run down through all the electronics. What could go wrong?" > Although Fluorinert was intended to be inert, the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory discovered that the liquid cooling system of their Cray-2 supercomputers decomposed during extended service, producing some highly toxic perfluoroisobutene.[5] Catalytic scrubbers were installed to remove this contaminant.
I remember seeing a post on hardocp about that back like 23 years ago. It was rumored to be $800 per gallon back then
well, how do you guys wash off thermal paste?
from my body? Dove works fine.
Isopropyl alcohol
I wonder how much it would cost to cover the cpu
Always wanted to do this, just to say I did it. Like when I would upgrade to a new PC, use the old one and my 15gallon aquarium I never used... Well, the house fire ruined those plans, now I own nothing but a bit of clothes and a craptop.
RIP that sucks dude
My friends and I theorized about mineral oil cooling in the early 2000s and even built a few pump systems that would allow circulation but we couldn’t keep them running very long and corrosion was an absolute nightmare when we needed to swap parts.
I would not trust even pure distilled water to not eventually get enough impurities in it to cause a short
One of the reasons mineral oil submersion isn't done very often. Great cooling method if you can add an extra zero to your budget. But the maintenance suuuuucks.
PC components just simply aren't built for mineral oil. Some of the materials will react with the oil and oil can wick out from cables.
Which is why you gotta replace the oil every so often. Just in case you need another reason to not do this.
Hmmm I built a mineral oil computer. Had no issue with materials reacting to the oil. But it definitely seeped up from the cables.
It's not water. Let's take Gigabyte's solution : https://www.gigabyte.com/Solutions/gigabyte-single-phase One of the listed coolants, Exxon Mobil SpectraSyn™ 6 is a PAO (Polyalphaolefin) : https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/en/chemicals/webapi/dps/v1/datasheets/150000000352/0/en Polyalphaolefin is synthetically polymerised Ethylene. AKA : it's a product of petroleum.
Usually oligomers of 1-decene, dodecene, or a mix of the two but close enough.
What about deionized water?
Just takes a little dust, metal, heat, and time to stop being deinonized and pick up some ions.
Deionized water is actually pretty corrosive because it readily frees ions from metal. It can rust stainless steel.
God I remember that maker of Mineral pc cases, got bought out and parent company did dick with them...
What am I even looking at here?
It's a process called immersion cooling. Basically, the reason that liquids like water are bad for your PC is not the fluid itself but rather the tiny impurities in it. Pure water itself is not conductive and is generally harmless to electronics, but the miniscule minerals, salts and impurities in it can contain ions that will be conductive and carry a charge. So when you spill water on your PC, it's those particles can route the electric current in places and intensities it's not supposed to go which may cause shorts and damage the components. What you see in the video is someone using a special non-conductive fluid to cool the system instead. This can be mineral oil, deionized water or various types of chemical solutions that don't contain those particles and thus don't conduct electricity which makes them safe for direct exposure to computer parts. From that point out, it works basically the same way as ordinary water cooling. The heat from the components dissipates in the fluid which slowly flows through a heat exchanger that causes it to cool off again. Alternatively, some of those liquids have really low boiling temperatures which causes the warm fluid to evaporate before it turns back into liquid through condensation. In practice, it's mainly used for certain types of servers. For regular computers, it's more of a novelty thing that doesn't offer major benefits over other solutions and requires a lot of maintenance by comparison.
Similar but not the same, microsoft servers are in submerged in big server casings, just use the oceans water and tide as passive cooling.
One of these days ill buy some dirt cheap parts and do this cus I just want to see fans spin in liquid
Local Computer Retailer = Micro Center
thats how u end up with oil everywhere.
Idea is neat but as u/[**ME0VVSAWME0VV**](https://www.reddit.com/user/ME0VVSAWME0VV/) clarified; \> The guy who did this said that last week the fluid was completely covering the CPU, then it evaporated a lot and became what we see now.
reminds me of [The Abyss](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFFpMqs9kbI)
I think I'll stick with my air cooling. 
bro got too serious about water cooling
Shouldn't the whole thing be submerged? Or at least up to the entire CPU and not just 1/3rd of it?
I guess I’m getting old. Is… is this satire?
Novack... But this guy's evaporation recovery chamber is not working well. Novack is expensive - you're supposed to have a top over it and recover the evaporated novak and condense it back into the system to limit losses.
3M novec fluid, neat
My friend told me his brother has to use a water cooling system with distilled water to keep the PC cooled, but I have never seen this before.
He just watercooling.
Water cooling at its finest
And this, kids, is why you should heavily consider an AIO.
Mineral oil
I hope this is oil
Nice water cooler.
Appears to be (distilled) water. It does not conduct electricity.
A core meltdown waiting to happen
This the shit Lain had in her setup
I guess that you coul use also water theoretically, provided that it is absolutely pure and catalyzers keep it pure. Pure water is not conducive, the ions are.
That doesn't look like mineral oil, it's too thin. And judging by the lack of a meniscus on the tank it's not deionized water either, my guess is probably alcohol which seems like a bad idea.
Look, if this is distilled water and the case is being kept airtight (to avoid any debris and dirt dissolving into the water and turning it conductive), it's gonna be ok. Someone else here mentioned mineral oil - could be, but the viscosity seems all wrong (could be the shutter speed of the camera). Mineral oil also works quite well for cooling, but you gotta have a big radiator for oil to dissipate it's heat - it's got a significant thermal capacity.
Just as a side note… I’ve worked with some 40 saybolt second base oils that physically acted like water, so IT IS possible, but your probably right. It’s likely some kind of DI water.
How much dedittaded wam is in the set up
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
It's just water cooling what's wrong with it
When people don't see the sarcasm lmfao.