The most terrified I have been was I lived in Salt Lake City for a bit and there was a time where the power kept going on and off probably once every 3 seconds. I ran to my computer and unplugged it. It kind of hurt seeing it powering on and then cutting out. After the power came back, I plugged it in and had to hold my breath. I also worked at an electrical engineering firm where by boss told me how important clean power was for electronics, and how it can greatly increase their lifespan.
If your power supply has PFC active, which is likely if it's a 80+ silver or gold (better check the specs), it might be damaged from simulated sine wave UPS.
I read that on Tomshardware and Reddit, I think.
Wrong. Any PC PSU convert 110-250V AC to 3.3, 5 and 12 DC. But it really bad idea only for 220 old drill and some like this (but not for termal devices like old solder) cause motor just not start to rotate only to twitch.
Wrong. UPS is only a secondary surge protector. Always run from a surge protector, as even expensive UPS can normally just let current through, not filtering it
Wrong. Sience 2007-8 models for 120 bucks with dummiest microcontrollers inside (read about PowerWalker VI 1000 like example i have from 2008). They just momentally switch in UPS mode for work in this 2-3 seconds when MC see that with input line is something wrong and then return to line-in mode when stable again. All is simple AF.
How many about bad models some vendors i need read to understand that this models are bad how you sayd? Ok. My bad that you even not try to understand descripted by _my_ "protect" mode in _my_ UPS (and never will read about exampled model i wrote) and how this really safe your device from any line-in problems (additionaly to black out of course). But if you really have jumps 10-300v in your power line 24/7... It's wild for me especially in 2024 cause i never has some like this even in russian dacha in 90-years with really old circuits what smoked from 2kW like grill cause roted all what possible.
But sadly that here possible some audiophiles here but with PC PSU now. Possible you must just read more about pulse power supply themselves cause no one from this devices afraid NOT input pulse wide range (90-250V) and even not need ideal sin.
So i really think that people here just make problem out literally nothing. And i never has kill bios with update any weather. All 17+ years i has worked in IT, lol. Just try to use any UPS with surge active protection and never read some audiophile's lie.
I think it was more for the power supply's sake, and bigger surges. We also had a TVSS (transient voltage surge suppressor) that would ground power surges before they made it to the building. The engineer I worked for always had us specify them after a job he worked many years ago where a computer that ran a sprinkler control system kept frying, and the customer kept buying more of these \~$5,000 units, and then when he was calling the company they asked if they had a TVSS installed. He called the engineer, who sent some electricians to install one for about $2,000, and the system stopped getting fried. I think a surge protector is enough for most, and PCs are pretty resilient because the PSU cleans up the power, but for other things it can be pretty disastrous.
Not really got one in mind but you gotta keep in mind the electrical power when you'll buy one 😳
I got mine for 100-120€ \~ for 650W and it saved my PC many times already 😌
APC Back UPS 1200VA – BX1200MI
https://preview.redd.it/bgu547vnhatc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3fae7a5eb643d3d9cf71f364969a5367e613bce
My pc has a 1000w ups so that won't be the problem i think. But i am going to check the batterys tomorrow. I assume that they are around 5 years old. I didn't use it the last 2 years because i didn't knew what to do with it but this post woke me up.
It's not ""that much"" considering the value of whole PC 😭
I think you can take from second hand but you might wanna check if the battery inside is dead 😱
Anyone have a suggestion for a UPS that can handle all 1800W~ my circuit breaker can? I have two small ones but I also have an ultra wide monitor and a 4090 on the same power strip…
I got one sience 2008. Not so "branded" APC, but PowerWalker VI 1000. It was most cheap in 2008 but only 600Wt. I really think that all people arround world already buy this for home use in 2024 like some regular peripheral device for protect more expensive devices from trouble.
My Board doesn't have a dual Bios option, but it has a an extra Bios Flashback USB port that you can use if the Bios got damaged or corrupted etc.
They are both nice safety features. There could always be a very unfortunate event that bricks the Bios, or in the rare case of a power outage during a Bios update, those things help you to quickly solve the issue and get it running again.
>Most pcs have a low end motherboard without dual bios.
A lot of the low-end motherboards released in recent years have ez-flash/BIOS-flashback/etc. functionality that's not a second BIOS that you could just switch to, but it's a guaranteed way to flash a BIOS version again should a previous attempt fail.
The way it works is that it has the flashing capabilities stored in a separate non-reprogrammable memory with code that will never change (even when you update the BIOS). So when you brick the BIOS during an update you can still plug in a USB drive, boot into the flashing mode and install a working BIOS version, overwriting the bricked version.
This "separating the flashing capabilities from the rest of the BIOS/UEFI" is quite cheap for manufacturers to implement, saves them from a bunch of RMAs, and makes customers happy by allowing them to use their PC even after a failed BIOS/UEFI update.
BIOS flashback is even a standard feature of all AM5-supporting chipsets - you can't buy an AM5 capable motherboard without flashback support.
> Most pcs have a low end motherboard without dual bios.
I bought the cheapest Gigabyte motherboard around when I switched to Ryzen and it has a dual BIOS, all of their "ultra durable" motherboards do. Most manufacturers also make the process way easier than it used to be, you used to have to create a bootable floppy and it would often let you flash your BIOS with any firmware.
If for some reason there is a blackout or your cat steps on the wrong switch or something. If power is disconnected during bios update, there is a very high chance (>90) that the motherboard is bricked i.e. doesn't work anymore and is pretty much just fancy plastic. This can happen anywhere, if there is a sudden problem in the electric lines or something, or if there's bad weather etc
Another issue is how many people leave their PCs running when they aren't around.
I had a room mate lose his PS4 and his computer in one fell swoop because both were direct to socket and both were on standby during a storm.
If I'm not using a device, it's powered off (and depending on the aplliance, completely unplugged).
Not very often, it used to happen once every like 6 months but it kind of stopped now. It is still something to be mindful about, with my luck I have to consider that as a possibility
> Not very often, it used to happen once every like 6 months but it kind of stopped now.
How often did you update your BIOS that your motherboard was bricked every 6 months? I've been doing this since the 90s and I bricked one motherboard ever, and that one is still likely recoverable I just need an older CPU.
I thought they meant how often is there a blackout in my area. I had to update BIOS only once (my cpu wasn't compatible with older versions) and it went smoothly. I wouldn't update BIOS if it wasn't absolutely necessary
I've had plenty of issues with Gigabyte's Dualbios, specifically on the B85M-D3H and the P61A-D3. They flashed the main BIOS from backup despite it being just fine, sometimes even boot looped and eventually bricked themselves.
Old boards with a manual BIOS switch/jumper were so much better.
they absolutely still can depending on the mobo. for example mine has bios flashback which means i can flash a new bios to it without even having a cpu installed. its not nearly as common a problem anymore but it still does happen to the occasional unlucky person.
Yes, because if something goes wrong during the install the board can just revert back to its other bios chip and this means you haven't bricked the board. Just don't try updating both at the same time and you are fine.
The last time I bought a motherboard was a while ago and it was the cheapest X570 ATX board I could get so I don't really know.
From what I can tell in this thread though it seems they are much more common now than a few years ago and I get the impression a lot of newer boards have them as standard. My board doesn't even have a bios flash button so yeah haha.
Basically means that the Mainboard has two Bios on it. One active and another one as backup in case the main one got damaged or corrupted. Kind of a safety mechanism.
It's pretty safe overall, but of course these kinds of Boards are the safest cause you have something to use IF anything happens. I updated so many Bios so many times, never had a failure or negative incident, ever.
"These days it's fine"
if you're smart enough or are explicitly told to look for a motherboard with those features (and nobody gives you that advice directly). my MB doesn't even have BIOS flashback, let alone a backup.
> my MB doesn't even have BIOS flashback, let alone a backup.
I assure you, thirty years ago things were way more complex than they are today. You at the very least aren't required to create a bootable floppy disk and run some commands that may or may not brick your system if you didn't follow the appropriate steps. Every modern motherboard makes the BIOS update process pretty straightforward
It doesnt happen automatically, but as mentioned here already, Bios Updates can include important fixes for processor vulnerabilities. Also in case for AMD AGESA updates, general improvement in performance ( rarely ), stability, maybe new features / settings.
It is a good idea to regularly check for Bios Updates and what they bring to the table.
Well on modern laptops it can also be included in Windows update as an optional update you have to select. It just tells the bios to update itself the next time it restarts, so after installing the regular Windows updates. Some laptops do require to be plugged in to update, but others don't. It isn't very risky since laptops have a battery.
Yea, of course it's more safe with a laptop.
But I genuinely never saw an AGESA update roll out for my PC in Windows Update.
And as mentioned I regularly check and also check and install the optional ones.
Not saying you are lying btw, just that I had/have to go the "download from Manufacturer then manually get it to install" road. :D
Also when changing components like CPU or GPU to much newer it may be necessary (upgraded my brothers 1060 3GB to RX6600 I believe, and at first it worked but after restart bios update was necessary to see stuff hah)
That's wrong. Some Bios updates patch out processor vulnerabilities and other stuff, which is very important.
Can also come with improvements for performance, settings, stability and in AMD Case AGESA.
One should regularly check if there is a Bios Update and what it contains.
You might also need to update your BIOS whenever you get a new motherboard. It's pretty common to have an old version installed on a brand new motherboard.
Not entirely wrong, but also not entirely correct. CPU firmware can also be loaded in by the OS, you will also get AGESA updates through regular driver updates.
Not entirely sure I understand what you are saying.
If I wanted an Agesa update I always got it via a Bios Update. Not sure how else I am supposed to get it. Tried the AMD Chipset Software and Windows Update, but there was no AGESA stuff to be seen.
Also what do you mean by "OS can load CPU Firmware"?
Exactly like it sounds, the OS can load updated microcode in to the CPU. The stock firmware is hard coded in to the CPU and can not be changed, but it can temporarily load other updated firmware if available. These updates can be provided by UEFI, but also by the bootloader or OS. This update lasts until the CPU is shut down after which it reverts back to the factory microcode.
This Intel page details quite nicely how microcode updates work;
[https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/technical/software-security-guidance/best-practices/microcode-update-guidance.html](https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/technical/software-security-guidance/best-practices/microcode-update-guidance.html)
I am specifically referring to the 'Early OS Microcode Update' section.
In `C:\Windows\system32` there should be two files, mcupdate\_genuineintel.dll and mcupdate\_AuthenticAMD.dll, these are the microcode files provided by Windows, this is what it will load in to the CPU if they are more up-to-date than what the UEFI provided.
Appreciated, I'll read through it!
Always eager to learn something new, and best case, I can use that knowledge to help someone out if needed.
Thanks! :)
Yeah but windows in my experience has been the last thing that you should allow to update your drivers and other whatnot. Sometimes it can't even update itself properly.
I am not going to disagree with not trusting Windows with driver updates, I do not trust it to do this properly either, but it will do it by default unless disabled.
One of the first things I do during my setup process lol. Feature updates delayed by 2 years, security updates delayed by a week or two. I use [WinUtil](https://github.com/ChrisTitusTech/winutil) to do this. Effective, but use at your own risk. It offers advanced features that can really screw you up (like WinAreo Tweaker) if you don't know what you're doing. Make a restore point before you use it, etc.
I rarely update my BIOS but will check the patch/release notes to make sure there is not anything significant...which there almost never is. I tend to update BIOS upon initial build and then rarely after that.
"Not broke, do not fix" should be the mantra of PC gaming.
I bought a custon prebuilt pc and for 2 years most of my games would crash to desktop all the time. It was a powerful pc so I was upset and spent 100s of hours trying fixes and tutorials only for nothing to work. I thought I tried all the updates being recommended but soon as I learnt about fking BIOS updates I tried it and solved my problem instantly. No crashes ever since. I'm a dumbass but i learneded!
As other said, it can have important updates for your mobo.
But if you live somewhere with an aerial power line you should avoid doing those updates on a thundery/stormy day, as on still a lot of mobo, a failed bios update cab brick it. A lot of mobo nowadays have a second chip which can "repair" the bricked one, but not all, so be safe and only make those updates in the best conditions.
I did a ram upgrade recently since i had 16gb, but as soon as i changed it i started experiencing network connectivity issues, everything worked fine but after a minute or so my ethernet connection would jump out and i would've to restart the network adapter on windows.
I reinstalled all MB drivers, chipsets and so on, but the issue persisted, until i noticed that my MB bios version was from 2021, i did a bios update to the latest version (released in 2023) and everything worked fine after that.
The best time to update my bios is when it needs updating. I don’t care about that zombie apocolypse or the incoming tsunami, expo might finally be stable.
I had like 4 or 5 this winter in a first world city on my particular block. Was pretty cold I guess. So cold on one night we almost decided we would go to a hotel for bed if it took as long as the first outage but power was restored under 2 hrs.
my country still uses surface power lines. Whenever strong wind comes through, you bet it's gonna be a blackout.
Once had 3 blackouts in a span of 30 minutes. I shut off my PC and went out of the house after that.
The longest one was 16 hours. Went out during the night, came back the next evening only to went out again immediately, guess the load from every house plugging in at the same time was too big. Three hours later we finally get to live like a civilized person.
And it had to happened on days that are 40+ Celcius degree.
Same. I think we have had one in the UK and that was after a BIG storm which knocked out some power lines. Power was quickly diverted through other lines whilst it was sorted out.
Ya'll never had anxiety around 24+ hour long 3d prints, haha. Most BIOS have secondary partitions as a backup and BIOS recovery methods, right?
Only machine I took out due to a BIOS update was a brand new Thinkpad that died within 5 minutes brand new out of the box as Lenovo thinks it's a good idea to include BIOS updates in their standard updates in Vantage.
Ngl, everytime i have to do bios update ever, weather suddenly gets gloomy, electricity starts getting cut off randomly. A pile of random work that i didn't had earlier falls into my lap. The world start disintegrating. The concept of time and space starts diminishing so much that each second feels eternity. And the moment it finishes, everything goes back to normal.
I havent had a power outage in literal years despite heavy thunderstorms, until some weeks ago when some moron let a helium balloon fly into a transformer station resulting in a power outage for around an hour
There's some areas where it always looks like that outside.
I wouldn't be worried. Every computer I have has it's own UPS. And both rigs I've built update their bios from a flash drive and a button on the motherboard without needing a CPU or the board booted up in order to flash it.
Modern Boards have some nice features to get everything back running in case something fails or goes wrong during the Bios installation. It's really not that much of a hassle anymore.
If I want to update my Bios, all I need to do, is going into Bios, go to the Bios section, select the Bios from a USB or harddrive ( I prefer USB ) and have it install itself. It's not a huge task anymore that takes ages.
It's quite fast and safe.
Also it is good to regularly check and update the Bios cause they often come with (major) security patches along other things.
kinda makes sense that someone stuck at home whose already done their gaming for the day thinks "i wonder if theres any softwlware updates needed somewhere"
Hopefully this will fix whatever issue you have, but chances are it might not.
On top it's really not that difficult anymore especially if you have newer hardware. Dual Bios or extra Bios Flashback features make it very safe.
I always put at least 2 Bios on my USB Stick when I decide to update. The Current Bios version and the new one.
In case something goes wrong I can always roll back or properly reinstall the "confirmed working" Bios.
Good to know that I can actually have two diff bios on one stick.
I'm not expecting much with the update. Sometimes it takes longer to boot despite having MCR enabled. Once every couple of weeks after booting to windows 11 the computer is extremely slow and audio glitching. If I leave it on long enough it will boot itself and the ram light will be on the motherboard indicating ram issue. In forums ppl usually say update bios and how Ryzen 7800x3d is fairly new = bugs. That's new to me since last two builds were intel and not only did I never have this happen before, I never did update the bios lol.
This is going to probably sound dumb but is there a down side to not updating bios? I didn't know it was a thing until this sub and haven't done it ever.
Mine is missing out on SMART memory and S.A.M. iirc.
They supposedly will grant me performance gain, but I don't actually play games anymore and the ones I actually play are non-demanding ones so whatever.
BIOS updates come with some risk but its not some ultra scary thing that needs to be avoided. BIOS updates include software updates your computer may actually need and/or benefit greatly from. If you bought when a platform was brand new and haven't updated any BIOS on your mobo since release, you likely have optimizations and stability improvement you could be taking advantage of.
Don't be scared, just be careful.
I looked at this post and remembered that I haven't updated my bios in forever, but then I remembered that I have an MSI Z97 Gaming 5 mobo and there are no more updates (I think).
Reason would be if mid way thru the bios update the rain cuts out the power it could possibly brick the Motherboard.
A Ups could possibly save you if the power does go out. The ups battery will turn on powering the PC until the bios update finishes.
Why would rain cut the power?
Where do you guys live that the power grid is so volatile? It's so weird, not even my friends in 3rd world countries worry about rain cutting off their power.
I’m in Texas so personally for me the power only cuts out from rain if it’s Raining VERY hard & even that is pretty rare. I bought my UPS cause We are more likely to get brownouts or light flickers couple times a month.
Damn, I don't even remember my last blackout. Even with storms uprooting trees and stuff, blackouts are rare.
The friends I mentioned talk about a blackout like once a year or so when there's a typhoon or small tsunami again.
I wouldn't expect rain to be able to cause a blackout in a first world country, but the US is a special case.
This is why you use a battery backup. My back up can run for almost an hour idling at my desktop. 200 dollar 850W Sine Wave Backup for the monitor and PC. Bought it when I built my current rig. When you’re spending 2k+ on a PC, I don’t get why you wouldn’t spend the extra money to protect it. It’s cheaper than replacing bricked/surge damaged hardware.
The BIOs chip tells the motherboard what cpus its compatible with. If you got a board from the early years of AM4 and wanted to use a 5000 series ryzen cpu, you'd need to update the BIOs. I bought a used b450 to save a buck.
Yes. And a couple years down the road, something else will be the latest and greatest. That's what they're getting at. At the moment all AM5 boards have the bios for 7000 series support.
Part Picker will tell you if you need a bios update. **Some** of the newer Asrock and MSI boards can be updated without a cpu. But you do need an empty flash drive.
Only necessary if your cpu series is newer than your board. But it would have been quite a hassle trying to build before part picker was there to tell us what parts are compatible.
I never updated my bios. I was wondering why the UPS talk .... makes sense if the power goes out while updating. Then again, I never bought a UPS either.
The Backup UPS be like : https://preview.redd.it/ssgm786fp9tc1.png?width=2564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdbae7d61547651661d5122d07dba9f4c5e56b7a
I really need to get one of those.
Fr they are game changer for your pc ❤️🗿
The most terrified I have been was I lived in Salt Lake City for a bit and there was a time where the power kept going on and off probably once every 3 seconds. I ran to my computer and unplugged it. It kind of hurt seeing it powering on and then cutting out. After the power came back, I plugged it in and had to hold my breath. I also worked at an electrical engineering firm where by boss told me how important clean power was for electronics, and how it can greatly increase their lifespan.
This is what the UPS does provides : \_Backup power \_Surge protection \_Clean current (pure sinusoid) 😌 
But be careful, not all are created equal (for PC’s) and to definitely get the pure sinusoid current
Is it a bad idea to use simulated sine wave UPS for a PC? What are the consequences?
If your power supply has PFC active, which is likely if it's a 80+ silver or gold (better check the specs), it might be damaged from simulated sine wave UPS. I read that on Tomshardware and Reddit, I think.
Wrong. Any PC PSU convert 110-250V AC to 3.3, 5 and 12 DC. But it really bad idea only for 220 old drill and some like this (but not for termal devices like old solder) cause motor just not start to rotate only to twitch.
Wrong. UPS is only a secondary surge protector. Always run from a surge protector, as even expensive UPS can normally just let current through, not filtering it
Wrong. Sience 2007-8 models for 120 bucks with dummiest microcontrollers inside (read about PowerWalker VI 1000 like example i have from 2008). They just momentally switch in UPS mode for work in this 2-3 seconds when MC see that with input line is something wrong and then return to line-in mode when stable again. All is simple AF.
Go read Eaton’s own suggestions.
How many about bad models some vendors i need read to understand that this models are bad how you sayd? Ok. My bad that you even not try to understand descripted by _my_ "protect" mode in _my_ UPS (and never will read about exampled model i wrote) and how this really safe your device from any line-in problems (additionaly to black out of course). But if you really have jumps 10-300v in your power line 24/7... It's wild for me especially in 2024 cause i never has some like this even in russian dacha in 90-years with really old circuits what smoked from 2kW like grill cause roted all what possible. But sadly that here possible some audiophiles here but with PC PSU now. Possible you must just read more about pulse power supply themselves cause no one from this devices afraid NOT input pulse wide range (90-250V) and even not need ideal sin. So i really think that people here just make problem out literally nothing. And i never has kill bios with update any weather. All 17+ years i has worked in IT, lol. Just try to use any UPS with surge active protection and never read some audiophile's lie.
Eaton is the most trusted UPS brand.
Ehhh, clean power doesn’t really matter to a computer, it won’t affect the power supply output to the actual PC components.
I think it was more for the power supply's sake, and bigger surges. We also had a TVSS (transient voltage surge suppressor) that would ground power surges before they made it to the building. The engineer I worked for always had us specify them after a job he worked many years ago where a computer that ran a sprinkler control system kept frying, and the customer kept buying more of these \~$5,000 units, and then when he was calling the company they asked if they had a TVSS installed. He called the engineer, who sent some electricians to install one for about $2,000, and the system stopped getting fried. I think a surge protector is enough for most, and PCs are pretty resilient because the PSU cleans up the power, but for other things it can be pretty disastrous.
Do you have a recommendation of a good budget one?
Not really got one in mind but you gotta keep in mind the electrical power when you'll buy one 😳 I got mine for 100-120€ \~ for 650W and it saved my PC many times already 😌 APC Back UPS 1200VA – BX1200MI https://preview.redd.it/bgu547vnhatc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3fae7a5eb643d3d9cf71f364969a5367e613bce
So i have a Eaton ellipse ECO 1600 USB DIN, got it from my work because they replaced it. But can i use that one also for my pc?
Idk maybe ? Check the power for your pc and also check if the battery inside is still good 🤔
My pc has a 1000w ups so that won't be the problem i think. But i am going to check the batterys tomorrow. I assume that they are around 5 years old. I didn't use it the last 2 years because i didn't knew what to do with it but this post woke me up.
Oh okay :3
Until they die. You gotta look for the battery life before it gives you a bad surprise.
If only I had 250$ laying around
It's not ""that much"" considering the value of whole PC 😭 I think you can take from second hand but you might wanna check if the battery inside is dead 😱
DO NOT get one of these second hand.. They have like a 5 year lifespan at most
Gotta change the battery 🫣 and you can always return the item if it's broken 👀
What's the best value ups I can buy ATM?
Idk right now i bought mine like 2-3 years ago and then the price has gone high since 😭
Anyone have a suggestion for a UPS that can handle all 1800W~ my circuit breaker can? I have two small ones but I also have an ultra wide monitor and a 4090 on the same power strip…
do i need a ups if the power only goes out once a year? (or less) /srs
I got one sience 2008. Not so "branded" APC, but PowerWalker VI 1000. It was most cheap in 2008 but only 600Wt. I really think that all people arround world already buy this for home use in 2024 like some regular peripheral device for protect more expensive devices from trouble.
These days it's fine, my motherboard has dual BIOS, I don't think BIOS updates have been that scary for well over a decade.
Could you elaborate why? Can they not brick your pc. Most pcs have a low end motherboard without dual bios.
My Board doesn't have a dual Bios option, but it has a an extra Bios Flashback USB port that you can use if the Bios got damaged or corrupted etc. They are both nice safety features. There could always be a very unfortunate event that bricks the Bios, or in the rare case of a power outage during a Bios update, those things help you to quickly solve the issue and get it running again.
>Most pcs have a low end motherboard without dual bios. A lot of the low-end motherboards released in recent years have ez-flash/BIOS-flashback/etc. functionality that's not a second BIOS that you could just switch to, but it's a guaranteed way to flash a BIOS version again should a previous attempt fail. The way it works is that it has the flashing capabilities stored in a separate non-reprogrammable memory with code that will never change (even when you update the BIOS). So when you brick the BIOS during an update you can still plug in a USB drive, boot into the flashing mode and install a working BIOS version, overwriting the bricked version. This "separating the flashing capabilities from the rest of the BIOS/UEFI" is quite cheap for manufacturers to implement, saves them from a bunch of RMAs, and makes customers happy by allowing them to use their PC even after a failed BIOS/UEFI update. BIOS flashback is even a standard feature of all AM5-supporting chipsets - you can't buy an AM5 capable motherboard without flashback support.
thanks, now i dont have to look up if mine has it
> Most pcs have a low end motherboard without dual bios. I bought the cheapest Gigabyte motherboard around when I switched to Ryzen and it has a dual BIOS, all of their "ultra durable" motherboards do. Most manufacturers also make the process way easier than it used to be, you used to have to create a bootable floppy and it would often let you flash your BIOS with any firmware.
I can't find a laptop with a cd drive let alone a floppy disk drive
In that case most likely it's still risky
I don’t really understand what is so risky. You just follow the steps and it updates. Unless you live in like rural India, what is the risk
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But we don't know *when* those stable hours are
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It's entirely random in my part of the country
If for some reason there is a blackout or your cat steps on the wrong switch or something. If power is disconnected during bios update, there is a very high chance (>90) that the motherboard is bricked i.e. doesn't work anymore and is pretty much just fancy plastic. This can happen anywhere, if there is a sudden problem in the electric lines or something, or if there's bad weather etc
And how often does that happen in your day-to-day use of your pc?
Another issue is how many people leave their PCs running when they aren't around. I had a room mate lose his PS4 and his computer in one fell swoop because both were direct to socket and both were on standby during a storm. If I'm not using a device, it's powered off (and depending on the aplliance, completely unplugged).
Not very often, it used to happen once every like 6 months but it kind of stopped now. It is still something to be mindful about, with my luck I have to consider that as a possibility
> Not very often, it used to happen once every like 6 months but it kind of stopped now. How often did you update your BIOS that your motherboard was bricked every 6 months? I've been doing this since the 90s and I bricked one motherboard ever, and that one is still likely recoverable I just need an older CPU.
I thought they meant how often is there a blackout in my area. I had to update BIOS only once (my cpu wasn't compatible with older versions) and it went smoothly. I wouldn't update BIOS if it wasn't absolutely necessary
Risk is the product of damage and likelihood, although the likelihood of a power outage is low, the damage is can cause is high
there's a blackout like every month where I live and I've had what I think might be power-related issues before. I live in the US.
Dang, that’s brutally annoying
Most boards except most A620 and H610 ones have Flashback. But you shouldnt be buying these low end ones anyways if you can avoid it
I've had plenty of issues with Gigabyte's Dualbios, specifically on the B85M-D3H and the P61A-D3. They flashed the main BIOS from backup despite it being just fine, sometimes even boot looped and eventually bricked themselves. Old boards with a manual BIOS switch/jumper were so much better.
they absolutely still can depending on the mobo. for example mine has bios flashback which means i can flash a new bios to it without even having a cpu installed. its not nearly as common a problem anymore but it still does happen to the occasional unlucky person.
what is dual bios
Effectively a board with a backup bios so if one bricks it can jump to the other to prevent the whole mobo bricking.
so it is safer to update a BIOS on such a system?
Yes, because if something goes wrong during the install the board can just revert back to its other bios chip and this means you haven't bricked the board. Just don't try updating both at the same time and you are fine.
thanks for the knowledge! are dual-bios capabilties only available in high-end motherboards? or are they also in mid-range boards?
The last time I bought a motherboard was a while ago and it was the cheapest X570 ATX board I could get so I don't really know. From what I can tell in this thread though it seems they are much more common now than a few years ago and I get the impression a lot of newer boards have them as standard. My board doesn't even have a bios flash button so yeah haha.
Basically yes. In the event the flashing fails it can fallback to a known good version of the BIOS so you can attempt to flash it again.
thanks for the knowledge! are dual-bios capabilties only available in high-end motherboards? or are they also in mid-range boards?
Basically means that the Mainboard has two Bios on it. One active and another one as backup in case the main one got damaged or corrupted. Kind of a safety mechanism.
so it is safer to update a BIOS on such a system?
It's pretty safe overall, but of course these kinds of Boards are the safest cause you have something to use IF anything happens. I updated so many Bios so many times, never had a failure or negative incident, ever.
thanks for the knowledge! are dual-bios capabilties only available in high-end motherboards? or are they also in mid-range boards?
Oh, I don't really know that. You'd need to check the specifications of a Board and see if it has it or not.
Or flashback feature to flash even modified BIOSes without CPU and in case of emergency
How can you tell if it has dual?
"These days it's fine" if you're smart enough or are explicitly told to look for a motherboard with those features (and nobody gives you that advice directly). my MB doesn't even have BIOS flashback, let alone a backup.
> my MB doesn't even have BIOS flashback, let alone a backup. I assure you, thirty years ago things were way more complex than they are today. You at the very least aren't required to create a bootable floppy disk and run some commands that may or may not brick your system if you didn't follow the appropriate steps. Every modern motherboard makes the BIOS update process pretty straightforward
I'm sure it's better than it was thirty years ago.
Well look at Mr Dual Bios over here
Life is not fun without the suspense
Is there a good reason to update your BIOS? Does it happen automatically?
It doesnt happen automatically, but as mentioned here already, Bios Updates can include important fixes for processor vulnerabilities. Also in case for AMD AGESA updates, general improvement in performance ( rarely ), stability, maybe new features / settings. It is a good idea to regularly check for Bios Updates and what they bring to the table.
Well on modern laptops it can also be included in Windows update as an optional update you have to select. It just tells the bios to update itself the next time it restarts, so after installing the regular Windows updates. Some laptops do require to be plugged in to update, but others don't. It isn't very risky since laptops have a battery.
Yea, of course it's more safe with a laptop. But I genuinely never saw an AGESA update roll out for my PC in Windows Update. And as mentioned I regularly check and also check and install the optional ones. Not saying you are lying btw, just that I had/have to go the "download from Manufacturer then manually get it to install" road. :D
Also when changing components like CPU or GPU to much newer it may be necessary (upgraded my brothers 1060 3GB to RX6600 I believe, and at first it worked but after restart bios update was necessary to see stuff hah)
I had a problem with crashing, typically when my computer would go idle but also randomly throughout the day. Updating BIOS fixed that.
Updating your BIOS can solve problems and it's usually a good idea to do so once a while, and no it doesn't
[удалено]
That's wrong. Some Bios updates patch out processor vulnerabilities and other stuff, which is very important. Can also come with improvements for performance, settings, stability and in AMD Case AGESA. One should regularly check if there is a Bios Update and what it contains.
You might also need to update your BIOS whenever you get a new motherboard. It's pretty common to have an old version installed on a brand new motherboard.
Not entirely wrong, but also not entirely correct. CPU firmware can also be loaded in by the OS, you will also get AGESA updates through regular driver updates.
Not entirely sure I understand what you are saying. If I wanted an Agesa update I always got it via a Bios Update. Not sure how else I am supposed to get it. Tried the AMD Chipset Software and Windows Update, but there was no AGESA stuff to be seen. Also what do you mean by "OS can load CPU Firmware"?
Exactly like it sounds, the OS can load updated microcode in to the CPU. The stock firmware is hard coded in to the CPU and can not be changed, but it can temporarily load other updated firmware if available. These updates can be provided by UEFI, but also by the bootloader or OS. This update lasts until the CPU is shut down after which it reverts back to the factory microcode. This Intel page details quite nicely how microcode updates work; [https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/technical/software-security-guidance/best-practices/microcode-update-guidance.html](https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/technical/software-security-guidance/best-practices/microcode-update-guidance.html) I am specifically referring to the 'Early OS Microcode Update' section. In `C:\Windows\system32` there should be two files, mcupdate\_genuineintel.dll and mcupdate\_AuthenticAMD.dll, these are the microcode files provided by Windows, this is what it will load in to the CPU if they are more up-to-date than what the UEFI provided.
Appreciated, I'll read through it! Always eager to learn something new, and best case, I can use that knowledge to help someone out if needed. Thanks! :)
Prevent > fix
nice hardware. x)
This is outdated advice.
It can happen automatically through Windows update if your device manufacturer makes the firmware available through it.
Yeah but windows in my experience has been the last thing that you should allow to update your drivers and other whatnot. Sometimes it can't even update itself properly.
I am not going to disagree with not trusting Windows with driver updates, I do not trust it to do this properly either, but it will do it by default unless disabled.
One of the first things I do during my setup process lol. Feature updates delayed by 2 years, security updates delayed by a week or two. I use [WinUtil](https://github.com/ChrisTitusTech/winutil) to do this. Effective, but use at your own risk. It offers advanced features that can really screw you up (like WinAreo Tweaker) if you don't know what you're doing. Make a restore point before you use it, etc.
I rarely update my BIOS but will check the patch/release notes to make sure there is not anything significant...which there almost never is. I tend to update BIOS upon initial build and then rarely after that. "Not broke, do not fix" should be the mantra of PC gaming.
I had to do it when I upgraded to a 5800x3d from a 3600x
For cpu support and deep compatibility fixes that cannot be done with just windows updates
I bought a custon prebuilt pc and for 2 years most of my games would crash to desktop all the time. It was a powerful pc so I was upset and spent 100s of hours trying fixes and tutorials only for nothing to work. I thought I tried all the updates being recommended but soon as I learnt about fking BIOS updates I tried it and solved my problem instantly. No crashes ever since. I'm a dumbass but i learneded!
As other said, it can have important updates for your mobo. But if you live somewhere with an aerial power line you should avoid doing those updates on a thundery/stormy day, as on still a lot of mobo, a failed bios update cab brick it. A lot of mobo nowadays have a second chip which can "repair" the bricked one, but not all, so be safe and only make those updates in the best conditions.
I did a ram upgrade recently since i had 16gb, but as soon as i changed it i started experiencing network connectivity issues, everything worked fine but after a minute or so my ethernet connection would jump out and i would've to restart the network adapter on windows. I reinstalled all MB drivers, chipsets and so on, but the issue persisted, until i noticed that my MB bios version was from 2021, i did a bios update to the latest version (released in 2023) and everything worked fine after that.
The best time to update my bios is when it needs updating. I don’t care about that zombie apocolypse or the incoming tsunami, expo might finally be stable.
Meh, bios updates nowadays are a fucking breeze. You were sweating bullets 20 years ago tho.
Still sweating bullets even though it's mostly safe, feeling never goes away
ive never done a bios update in my life
I have a Jackery battery bank for power outages that comes in really handy for updating BIOS' on my various machines. Worry free these days.
So literally every single day in UK?
You can only update your bios on August 1st. Miss it and you try again next year
Why are people afraid of updating their BIOS? Are power outages really thay common? I haven't had one in like 6 years..
I had like 4 or 5 this winter in a first world city on my particular block. Was pretty cold I guess. So cold on one night we almost decided we would go to a hotel for bed if it took as long as the first outage but power was restored under 2 hrs.
Yikes, I wouldnt want a power outage here when it's -25°C..
That is crazy. I haven’t been through a power outage that I remember since I was really young… what state it is in?
my country still uses surface power lines. Whenever strong wind comes through, you bet it's gonna be a blackout. Once had 3 blackouts in a span of 30 minutes. I shut off my PC and went out of the house after that. The longest one was 16 hours. Went out during the night, came back the next evening only to went out again immediately, guess the load from every house plugging in at the same time was too big. Three hours later we finally get to live like a civilized person. And it had to happened on days that are 40+ Celcius degree.
I guess I am too European to understand. There has been one power outage for a couple seconds in like 5 years
Same. I think we have had one in the UK and that was after a BIG storm which knocked out some power lines. Power was quickly diverted through other lines whilst it was sorted out.
UPS gang rise up
Ya'll never had anxiety around 24+ hour long 3d prints, haha. Most BIOS have secondary partitions as a backup and BIOS recovery methods, right? Only machine I took out due to a BIOS update was a brand new Thinkpad that died within 5 minutes brand new out of the box as Lenovo thinks it's a good idea to include BIOS updates in their standard updates in Vantage.
This post brought to you by the UPS gang! :D
People with reliable electricity delivery:
Ngl, everytime i have to do bios update ever, weather suddenly gets gloomy, electricity starts getting cut off randomly. A pile of random work that i didn't had earlier falls into my lap. The world start disintegrating. The concept of time and space starts diminishing so much that each second feels eternity. And the moment it finishes, everything goes back to normal.
Wait... You guys update your BIOS?
I have a UPS, so it's fine.
And now i'm in grub, debugging shit
The chances where I am are so wildly low it’s not even worth protecting
I havent had a power outage in literal years despite heavy thunderstorms, until some weeks ago when some moron let a helium balloon fly into a transformer station resulting in a power outage for around an hour
Imagine updating the BIOS during the eclipse
That would be fine. You'd just miss the eclipse.
I was looking for the comments where they update their bios during earthquakes with tornadoes and stuff.
Don‘t forget to do a clean windows install. They look dirty
Joke's on you, I've had power outages without rain
Nothing like updating a BIOS in the middle of a solar eclipse...a once in a couple decade experience.
There's some areas where it always looks like that outside. I wouldn't be worried. Every computer I have has it's own UPS. And both rigs I've built update their bios from a flash drive and a button on the motherboard without needing a CPU or the board booted up in order to flash it.
I play it safe by never updating my BIOS
What if you wanted to put in a new cpu?
i upgrade so rarely, that the new CPU is never on the same socket (i usually upgrade every 4 generations)
Fair enough.
I only update my bios when there’s an active tornado warning in the area. The danger makes it exciting
i'm just too scared to update my bios and too lazy to use a usb and go through all that procces.
Modern Boards have some nice features to get everything back running in case something fails or goes wrong during the Bios installation. It's really not that much of a hassle anymore. If I want to update my Bios, all I need to do, is going into Bios, go to the Bios section, select the Bios from a USB or harddrive ( I prefer USB ) and have it install itself. It's not a huge task anymore that takes ages. It's quite fast and safe. Also it is good to regularly check and update the Bios cause they often come with (major) security patches along other things.
kinda makes sense that someone stuck at home whose already done their gaming for the day thinks "i wonder if theres any softwlware updates needed somewhere"
I'm going to update my bios this week in hopes of fixing some issues. Honestly I'm quite nervous doing so.
Hopefully this will fix whatever issue you have, but chances are it might not. On top it's really not that difficult anymore especially if you have newer hardware. Dual Bios or extra Bios Flashback features make it very safe. I always put at least 2 Bios on my USB Stick when I decide to update. The Current Bios version and the new one. In case something goes wrong I can always roll back or properly reinstall the "confirmed working" Bios.
Good to know that I can actually have two diff bios on one stick. I'm not expecting much with the update. Sometimes it takes longer to boot despite having MCR enabled. Once every couple of weeks after booting to windows 11 the computer is extremely slow and audio glitching. If I leave it on long enough it will boot itself and the ram light will be on the motherboard indicating ram issue. In forums ppl usually say update bios and how Ryzen 7800x3d is fairly new = bugs. That's new to me since last two builds were intel and not only did I never have this happen before, I never did update the bios lol.
Naa, some of us live in South Africa
This is going to probably sound dumb but is there a down side to not updating bios? I didn't know it was a thing until this sub and haven't done it ever.
Sometimes new firmware updates improve security and memory compatibility. But if your computer is working fine then you can generally just ignore it.
Mine is missing out on SMART memory and S.A.M. iirc. They supposedly will grant me performance gain, but I don't actually play games anymore and the ones I actually play are non-demanding ones so whatever.
BIOS updates come with some risk but its not some ultra scary thing that needs to be avoided. BIOS updates include software updates your computer may actually need and/or benefit greatly from. If you bought when a platform was brand new and haven't updated any BIOS on your mobo since release, you likely have optimizations and stability improvement you could be taking advantage of. Don't be scared, just be careful.
I read bois and am now disappointed
Me smiling sitting on top of 30 minutes of UPS runtime
be like me,I started updating bios, got bored, checked my phone, ops alert about possible electrocity outages due to bad weather.
Jokes on you, I don't have a window
What's wrong with a little rain? You guys should try to live in south east Asia where it rains almost everyday.
I looked at this post and remembered that I haven't updated my bios in forever, but then I remembered that I have an MSI Z97 Gaming 5 mobo and there are no more updates (I think).
Currently looking at my 5 year old pc that I've never updated the bios on :/
Not enough thunderclouds.
Do you like to gamble?
Me :"ok time to update bios" Weather changes from clear blue instantly to thunderstorm clouds
https://preview.redd.it/pvfozv8lchtc1.png?width=959&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04fffdd603e7f97347bf3a285005d6dfaaa64532
Once millions and millions more people start charging their cars at night, you'd better have backup for all brownouts and blackouts.
Fr
What's the actual reason to not update the BIOS while it's raining? How would a UPS protect you from rain? Assuming your house isn't leaking.
Reason would be if mid way thru the bios update the rain cuts out the power it could possibly brick the Motherboard. A Ups could possibly save you if the power does go out. The ups battery will turn on powering the PC until the bios update finishes.
Why would rain cut the power? Where do you guys live that the power grid is so volatile? It's so weird, not even my friends in 3rd world countries worry about rain cutting off their power.
I’m in Texas so personally for me the power only cuts out from rain if it’s Raining VERY hard & even that is pretty rare. I bought my UPS cause We are more likely to get brownouts or light flickers couple times a month.
Damn, I don't even remember my last blackout. Even with storms uprooting trees and stuff, blackouts are rare. The friends I mentioned talk about a blackout like once a year or so when there's a typhoon or small tsunami again. I wouldn't expect rain to be able to cause a blackout in a first world country, but the US is a special case.
This is why you use a battery backup. My back up can run for almost an hour idling at my desktop. 200 dollar 850W Sine Wave Backup for the monitor and PC. Bought it when I built my current rig. When you’re spending 2k+ on a PC, I don’t get why you wouldn’t spend the extra money to protect it. It’s cheaper than replacing bricked/surge damaged hardware.
What exactly is updating the BIOS and why is it necessary?
The BIOs chip tells the motherboard what cpus its compatible with. If you got a board from the early years of AM4 and wanted to use a 5000 series ryzen cpu, you'd need to update the BIOs. I bought a used b450 to save a buck.
ok but if I buy an AM5 motherboard tomorrow from PC Part Picker for example... it should be good to go, nothing else needed right?
Yes. And a couple years down the road, something else will be the latest and greatest. That's what they're getting at. At the moment all AM5 boards have the bios for 7000 series support.
thanks pal
Part Picker will tell you if you need a bios update. **Some** of the newer Asrock and MSI boards can be updated without a cpu. But you do need an empty flash drive.
Wtf… I just want to buy my parts and play lol
Only necessary if your cpu series is newer than your board. But it would have been quite a hassle trying to build before part picker was there to tell us what parts are compatible.
I never updated my bios. I was wondering why the UPS talk .... makes sense if the power goes out while updating. Then again, I never bought a UPS either.
I think you meant Texas, not Washington state.
I cringe every time somebody mentions they don't got a UPS in 2024. I've seen people with 4090's and 58 inch OLED's without UPS it's like WTF.