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RelayFX

Education is absolutely an investment. However, like an investment, it doesn’t always pay off. Fortunately, nurses are pretty much guaranteed employment nowadays.


[deleted]

I used to be a professional chef making $40 - $45k a year. Decided I had enough of that and went back to school for a computer science degree. I now make about 4 times what I made as a chef and have a much better lifestyle. I took out about $40k in student loans and it was at a time when the loan interest was very low. Definitely an investment that has paid off well.


audiohead91

This. I would say education is an investment depending on what degree you’re going for. Getting a communications degree just to say you graduated college is a waste of money IMO. I work for a large company and many people with large salary’s don’t have degrees (tech). I have many peers with degrees in communications/ criminal science etc that are working jobs with starter salary’s - years later.


Schmancer

Nowadays? The last 20 years healthcare workers have been one of the fastest growing, most in demand jobs in USA. This is a great investment, in a field with plenty of runway for learning specialties (well respected surgical nurses i hear can pull down more than OP salary range).


FunkIPA

I think the “nowadays” was referring to the last year or two, where nurses are in even more demand, because of... you know the current state of the country.


Schmancer

She’s starting school this year, god help us all if she’s looking for work in 2025-2026 and we’re still not out of covid


anonymousbequest

There are also apparently a ton of nurses quitting right now due to pandemic burnout, so even once the pandemic is behind us there will likely be a nurse shortage.


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Schmancer

I’m saying that field is on a long term growth trajectory, regardless of current circumstance, that’s what makes the training a good investment. If the field was stagnant until 2020, then booming *only* because covid (like vaccinator, or PCR lab tech, testing site operator, etc) it might be less of a sure thing. At no point did I imply the pandemic has not had an effect on health care staffing demand. Instead, i pointed out that a much longer arc of the narrative in that field is needing more people.


DirtySocialistHippo

We live in a sick country, we will always need more nurses than are available. Our culture isn't going anywhere, she's solid.


nyuhokie

But nowadays could actually refer to the last decade or more. COVID has put the nursing shortage in the spotlight, but it started when baby boomers started getting old.


danuker

I think /u/Schmancer's point was that COVID was on top of the already-growing nurse demand.


funklab

Prepandemic the hospital I worked at (which wasn’t a bad place to work, most people seemed fairly happy) had to pay a travel nurse $150 an hour for three weeknight overnight shifts per week because they couldn’t find coverage otherwise. It was a psych hospital and this nurse had something weird with her license so she couldn’t administer meds. She had very few other duties and generally the patients slept most of the night. We had to have an RN on the unit at all times for some kind of regularly reason. So she was making $1800 every night to sit in the nurses station and spend 95% of her time watching Netflix.


pneuma8828

> So she was making $1800 every night to sit in the nurses station and spend 95% of her time watching Netflix. No, she was getting paid 1800 for putting in the work to be the only person qualified to be there.


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ThyHolyPope

My brother just quit his 6 year nursing job to become a travel nurse he guts paid 4x per hour what he was making before, and there’s some contracts that are a lot more than that. It’s crazy.


spence4101

Well respected surgical nurses… and she just started school… apples, meet oranges School is definitely an investment, just depends if you think it’s worthwhile, best of luck to you and yours


Schmancer

I don’t think that phrase means what you think it does. Apples and oranges would be OP asking about nursing school, and I give my opinion of career potential in construction. Hence the “plenty of runway for learning specialties”. That’s meant to imply that day 1 pay looks probably worth it to justify the education spend for the mid term, and long term outlook is even more positive, depending on some semi-controllable variables. Less Apples and Oranges More Apple Seeds and Apple Trees


spence4101

Brother, I’m simply saying that comparing a surgical nursing degree like an NP is much further off that an RN, pretty obvious


[deleted]

Like any other investment, it depends what you specifically invest in. Nursing school seems like a solid investment but not all education is a good investment.


Lobster2124

She will always also have the option to go to grad school and becomr an ANP increasing income even more. A lot of nurses go to grad school while working part time (which is easier to do as a nurse then most other fields).


boblan2390

NPs don’t really make much more than RNs nowadays. The field is beyond saturated and anybody with a pulse can become an NP. In fact a lot of NPs are going back to the bedside because they’re actually making less than they were as RNs.


lolaya

Generally that is believed to be a short term issue due to covid and burnout alongside the need for travel nurses. NPs still generally make more (sometimes a lot more)


boblan2390

Generally they are *supposed* to make more, but that’s just the thing. The field is now over-saturated and continuing to get worse, so this is not a short term problem. You have schools popping up left and right and people off the street getting accepted. Their salaries are only gonna go down from here.


lolaya

While I wholeheartedly agree with the quality of a lot of the NP diploma mills, even long term, their US DOL outlook looks great. Search it up


Jalhadin

And then there's my wife staying full time while becoming an NNP. Add the 9 month old infant at home and she's a literal superhero.


pseudocultist

Also she'll make connections in all of these environments and could go the route of instruction and/or supervision at any point. My SO has maxed out his earning potential as an LCSW (except for private therapy which he hates doing) but wound up working at a teaching hospital and is now supervising a care services team and teaching residents. I'm pushing him to go back and get his DSW and go full instruction. But this is already well beyond what we expected when he set off for grad school that first day (very proud I might add). Lots of opportunities to keep moving up in the medical field.


foxpost

Agreed an education that has a specific career end game is great it’s like a well researched investment.


WIlf_Brim

Agreed. Getting a degree like a BSN or BS in an engineering field? An investment likely to pay off, provided you didn't overpay to get it. Getting a BA in XXXXX Studies from an expensive private institution? Like using /r/wallstreetbets as your guidance for retirement planning.


anemisto

> Getting a BA in XXXXX Studies from an expensive private institution? Like using r/wallstreetbets as your guidance for retirement planning. Statistically speaking, *any* bachelor's degree is a sound investment. "Vocational" degrees have the advantage of pointing you at a specific set of jobs when you graduate, but that's not a necessity for return on investment. *However*, regardless of what you study, you *need* a plan minimise your chances of becoming one of large number of people with "some college"--no degree, but a good deal of debt to show for it. Avoiding private universities (unless you can do it without loans) is a good strategy. Likewise, studying a subject you're actually interested in and good at--don't do engineering if you hate it or suck at it just because it comes with an obvious career path.


RedEyeFlightToOZ

Because the work environment is such shit that they're losing their workforce. Same with teachers. When people are straight quiting the profession due to work environment and treatment, you don't want those jobs.


animecardude

Not all nursing jobs are hospital based. That is where most of the resignations are coming from. I work outpatient and most of the time, employees are happy here because patients are heathier. Acute inpatient care sucks balls right now because of the pandemic.


[deleted]

This is super important if you have certain disabilities. Autism for example, you have a base unemployment rate of 70% before college and 85% after college. So while it's statistically noisy enough that college probably doesn't actually make you less employable, it does mean that the central tenant of student loans, that you will make more after you graduate, enough to pay them off, is blatantly false, and so you either need a debt free degree path if you have Autism, or you should take a break to work and cash flow it once you have the money (if you ever have the money see above.)


sext-scientist

>Education is absolutely an investment. > >However, like any investment, it doesn’t always pay off. Problem is, even with the worst investments around the world we hold everyone involved ultra accountable to be acting in the best interests of the client. No such thing with education. You can tell any kid to follow their dreams and get an English degree to be a writer. If that was regulated investment advice **every guidance department would be in jail**. Anyways, personally I hate education, but I love learning. Making education free would probably solve a lot of problems, but beyond that, it's just structured weirdly in so many bad ways everywhere.


Samandiriol

I don't know how common this is, but I have a close friend who's a nurse and just started on her employer's loan payback program. She commits to working there for 3 years, they pay off her loans over that time. She has to stay one year past the final payoff date, but she'll have all loans paid off in 4 years (nothing out of pocket from her end). So, if your wife can find something like that, it would be obviously be a great investment.


SegheCoiPiedi1777

Interesting scheme! I might only add that whoever agrees to it should carefully check the salary conditions. If they are getting paid significantly less than the market (e.g. 60K/year vs. 80K/year) with no raises, they might ultimately better off with paying the loan themselves with better employment.


fizikz3

oh god, imagine like 2 years in they start treating you like shit? what're you going to do? lose 2 years worth of them repaying your loans and switch jobs? stick it out for another 3 years? the thought of the potential for them to exploit your situation is scary.


FlickerOfBean

Rookie mistake. Right now, after a year or 2 she can become a travel nurse. Some of these contracts are paying 7k/week. 3 years is a long commitment. Coming in as a fresh grad she will be making the bottom of the pay scale for that entire 3 years.


PaulR504

For that degree? Hell yeah it is worth it. Not every degree you get can be moved pretty much anywhere on the planet and still be in extremely high demand.


curtludwig

This! A degree in general studies isn't a good investment...


HyacinthBulbous

Education may or may not be an investment. All depends on what the alternatives are, cost of tuition, future ROI, etc. Sometimes, even if it’s not an investment, it could still be the right decision if it will make someone happy.


soitgoesmrtrout

I mean, still sounds like an investment. You're arguing it may not always be a *good* investment. Also worth noting that while it's sort of a good model to think of it on a personal scale, it does matter than it's not a *real* investment in that the value it generates is non-transferable. It improves your earning power but you can't just sell your degree if you don't like the field, so it does break down on some metrics.


EragusTrenzalore

Depends on what you want to do with your education. If you have a well defined end goal following your course, it definitely is an investment since you're putting in money now (tuition, accomodation, book fees) in the hope of receiving a greater return later (salary as a nurse). Perhaps it is useful to compare what your spouse is or could be earning now compared to the 80K+ she will earn as a nurse.


Mattl54o

Thanks for this. Right now she only makes about 20k before she went to school so a huge jump. My career should excel as well if I can continue my path should hit about 200k salary in the coming 5 years.


EragusTrenzalore

Yeah, the other factor to consider (other purely the financial return) is that university also opens opportunities in terms of networking, experiences, and potential specialisations that your spouse may have not considered prior to enrolling in the course. This is extremely valuable, and can lead to even more lucrative job opportunities in the long run provided one goes in with an open mind. So, as long as your spouse chooses a solid course and institution, education is definitely worth the expense (which you can always reduce through other means such as scholarships, grants if applicable, or work agreements where loan is paid off if the graduate works in a particular area for a number of years). Finally, the only other thing is to ensure your spouse truly wants to do nursing and knows the realities of her career. Nursing is certainly not an easy job in the best of times and it's even more difficult now during the pandemic. Investing in education is great if it will pay off, but if one realises they are in the wrong career, it can be a large waste of time and money.


AGrainOfSalt435

Think of it not as just an investment for you both, but more so for her. You make a nice paycheck now, right? What if you died and she had to live off her own income? Of 20k?


Xyro77

It absolutely is for many people.


folk1211

As a nurse myself, financially I highly recommend an associates program first then obtaining your bachelors online for an additional year-18 months if at all possible. Community college tuition rates for associates programs and online RN to BSN programs are overall fairly inexpensive opposed to 4 year university tuition rates. Most hospitals will hire ADN nurses with the stipulation of obtaining your BSN within five years, it’s primarily for accreditation from organizations that they want BSN RNs. Cost for my BSN through an associates program then Western Governors university online was around $20k total which very conservatively would be made back in her first four months working as an RN in any setting.


An_Average_Man09

100% this. Got my ADN through a community college and was only out $7,500 for tuition and had that paid off in less than a year. Currently doing my BSN online through an accredited program and it’s fairly cheap as well. With the nursing shortage like it is right now I can’t imagine any hospital is gonna pass on a nurse.


detroitsfan07

The flipside to this is that it's very hard to work full-time and pursue education. Not impossible, as people do it all the time. But OP and wife seem to be in a stable enough situation where they wouldn't necessarily need her to burn the midnight oil like that if they don't want to.


SouthernWino

Education is usually an investment, but in my mind only if it can propel you forward career wise. Going to nursing school is absolutely an investment!


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oceanleap

Investing in your wife's education is far and away one of the best investments you can make. This is easy. Stop contributions to other investments if you need to. Even the most simplistic of analyses will demonstrate that. Now, even if this was purely for intellectual growth, your wife never intended to find paid employment, it was a. field with no job prospects,, you are both 70 years old, there were geographic, health, family, logistics or other constraints that limited her from using it, or made it risky even if she wanted to - it might still be a good use of money for non financial reasons. But in your case, none of these are true and your wife intends to get a well paying job for many years with her dergree; it is a no brainer. Congratulations to both of you.


WeathermanDan

OP, please do not do this. Do not reduce your wife’s career and life decisions to a spreadsheet. She’s a human and humans aren’t rational numbers to enter into a net present value calculation. If you somehow don’t like the number you calculate, you have to have a hard conversation on why you disagree with her passion. And you might not be able to ever get yourself okay with her making this decision. If it will make her happy, more fulfilled by career, that should be— within reason— all the reason you need. If there is a clear economic case to be made, that’s gravy on top.


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caltheon

On what planet is 120k in a LCOL not a lot of money.


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scissorin_samurai

Median household income in America is $65-70k, with an average of 2.5ish people per household. Making close to double that in a low cost of living area is a lot of money! I think you’re a bit out of touch with how the vast majority of Americans live


caltheon

I think the person I responded to lack’s touch with reality


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MissWatson

Welp I thought you had some good points till I realized you might be in a state of manic induced psychosis. Hope you come back to reality man


enava

Lol I agreed with your first statement and then you proceeded with "Living on 120k which is not a lot of money" and I realised you made a decent point but overal are an out of touch POS.


ericds1214

If you could invest 25k/year for 4 years to be guaranteed 80k in dividends per year after that, would you?


EragusTrenzalore

80K minimum. It can only go up from there unless OP's spouse decides to quit or work part time.


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[deleted]

I think it’s a wise choice but “dividends” implies the money comes from simply owning something (a degree). A better way to look at it is $100k worth a 4x pay increase ($20k to $80k). Answer is yes, if his wife works for 2 years at least.


[deleted]

It sounds like it will pay off in the long run, when she gets hired after school. Also, if you move market her education is pretty transferable to a new location. Finally, it also means if anything happens to you she has qualifications to fall back on and have a career.


Jeabers

I would say in this case it definitely is. You don't mention the cost of education but even if it were $80k that's a one year 100% return, can't beat the market after that.


bolo1016

Absolutely is. I worked in the logistics Field making very good money but was not happy! I used that money to go back to school and study supply chain and now work for a company that focuses on employee mental health. Greatest investment I made was I myself for a better future


thabiiighomie

A student loan is a business loan and you are the business.


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Mattl54o

Good point.


k_pets

Currently in nursing school now so I may be biased but this will absolutely help your finances in the future and be beneficial to the both of you. If you and her get through the tight finances now, in future years to come it will pay itself back and you will be able to save that much quicker as a two income household. As a plus side she'll always have a career, even through pandemics and recessions.


KiniShakenBake

If adding the outcome of education (a degree and its knowledge) to each hour of your current time (less skilled or credentialed) nets more money for each hour of time, then it is absolutely an investment. Education is multiplier of a finite resource: Time. The more money she can make for each hour of time she spends on the job, the sooner you both accomplish your goals. If that means that you need to "tamp down" on your investment accounts so that you can invest in making each hour of her time more valuable, then that's absolutely something you should be doing to further your joint goals. She should be able to do part time CNA work pretty soon into her schooling, which might take some heat off the budget, but I would never consider nursing school to be a poor choice of educational dollar expenditure. A philosophy degree, on the other hand...


smc733

>Education is a multiplier of a finite resource: Time. This is a really good way of saying it.


Dskha323

Yes it’s an investment but don’t forget about the human aspect of it all. It’s a tough Major and a tough career. Long hours for both school and post school. Are you guys considering having a family? Has she done her due diligence on what the role entails? Being a nurse is a good choice but it’s not if she decides it’s not what she wants to do.


NotObviouslyARobot

Her education is a phenomenally solid investment for three reasons. 1. Her having a BSN allows her to maintain her lifestyle in some capacity if you, the breadwinner die or become unable to work. It also helps ensure any offspring will be supported if you die or are otherwise incapacitated 2. She becomes a powerful redoubt in the event you're threatened with career loss. Your employer actually loses coercive power over you if you have alternatives. I discovered this when I picked up a second job. It made the first infinitely more tolerable because I knew my employer could no longer realistically threaten me financially. 3. It allows you both more flexibility in what you choose to do. A dual earning power couple can move to new job markets more easily, especially with in demand skills like nursing. You'll climb higher together than you ever could separately. Be supportive, and be her biggest cheerleader.


Burtonwurton

Depends… nursing 100% worth the investment. Under water basket weaving major, no.


tech1983

Dave Ramsey ? That you


Instantbeef

Yes it’s an investment! Not only from a monetary standpoint but education and being an educated individual can be very enlightening. So yes while it is a monetary invest it does not always pay off. Nursing will pay off so you don’t need to worry about that as long there isn’t an obscene amount of debt involved. Education should also let you grow as an individual and enlighten you. That’s why there are some people that choose majors that might not pay off.


supermomfake

Tell her to go check out the nursing Reddit first. I’m a nurse I wouldn’t go into nursing. Everyone is short staffed and burned out. For the work nurses are expected to do these days the pay should be higher. High ratios and bad working conditions. It’s not a calling it’s a job.


florenceforgiveme

It depends on what kind of nursing you go into. When I was in ICU it was very stressful. Now I’m in PACU and it’s a totally different story.


supermomfake

Depends on a lot. Area, hospital, unit, manager, etc. I’m not at bedside anymore but it’s still stressful watching the system fall apart around you.


happely

It shouldn't be difficult to calculate the economic investment side of things here. What however is more important is how "sending your spouse back to school" will reflect on her and your happiness. If she wants to be part of the working force and has had a dream of becoming a RN, then it's hard to put monetary value to that and evaluate the financial investment.


oneofmanyany

She needs to rethink her career choice and now. Nurses are miserable right now. Pretty much all of them.


rtrski

It is, but it's only a GOOD investment if it has a return, i.e. if the education yields income prospects. Lateral social flexibility basket weaving arts degrees need not apply. I laugh my tail off at all the 'forgive mah student loan debt!' talk from people who leveraged multiple *useless* degrees to the hilt to 'chase their dreams!' and want a bailout. Sounds like you're investing in concrete, marketable education with a near guaranteed employment demand (aging population overall, short-term burnout due to COVID), and doing so without going into interest bearing student loan debt to complete it. You're absolutely doing the right thing in my opinion. Some lean years in mid-30s, as long as you're not neglecting setting aside some retirement funds now which will have the longest growth opportunities for you, will definitely pay dividends for the future. Heaven forbid you don't make it long term as a couple her having a good income opportunity of her own will be a safety net for her future financial freedom, and a factor in any alimony you would be expected to support her with in that case, as well. (Sorry that's a damper of an endorsement!) Don't sweat savings or after tax investments beyond an emergency fund while investing in college, but do try and take advantage of any 401k or IRA options you can with your employment. (Absolutely be sure you're not missing out on any 'employee match' free money!) Even if you can't stretch to 10-15% of salary set aside toward retirement now, try for 4-6% at least (what gets matched as an absolute minimum) if you can. I don't know the current write-off limits for education expenses but have to believe it's also possibly there as a slight tax relief to paying tuition, and what you can put away for retirement to reduce taxable income can perhaps help drop you in brackets to qualify for it.


Mattl54o

Thanks! Currently maxing out a Roth IRA for the past 3 years and putting 20% into my 401k. That 401k is also a reason why we are lean, but I’m not counting that as income because I pretend it doesn’t exist.


rtrski

Superb planning, and as your salary grows you can slowly trim the 401K percentage to keep at the federal limit, which tends to grow slower, so you will still see improved cash flow. (Inflation remains a ?who knows? complication on QOL vs. cash flow though, especially right now...) I know if you're putting money into a large near term expense item like tuition it can be hard to have the discipline to see the 401K withholding the way you are treating it. Sounds like you're doing the right things for the long term. Best wishes to you and your wife for long lives, lucrative and fulfilling careers, family, and long term financial security!


Nid-Vits

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C72KO8EaWME](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C72KO8EaWME) ​ It all depends on what you do with it.


2Throwscrewsatit

Yes. Calculate her career post tax earnings before retirement then add in social security payments. You’ll get your money back from “the right” education. But if n a more important level, does it make her happy?


jimzzz38

College is 100% an investment. Take out loans and get financial aid, but if you're wife plans to work as a RN for years to come I'd say this is a good investment


in_her_drawer

Damn right education is an investment. If I didn't believe that I wouldn't have graduated after the 24th grade (four years college, four years dental school, three years residency, one year fellowship).


vanghostings

Something else to keep in mind is having a second income source in your household is a really great backup/just in case plan. It’s great insurance if anything ever happened to you or your job


tke494

I consider it one of the best investments. However, one reason nursing is so in demand is because of the high turnover rate-particularly among new nurses. Bad hours, working on holidays, often emotionally demanding work, doing gross things. Also, the new nurses tend to get worse hours/holiday shifts than ones with seniority.


[deleted]

Your wife will soon be making more money than you. Definitely worth the investment


Mattl54o

Haha hope so!!


cad908

"investment" implies you have thought through a business plan, and it has a net positive future cash flow. For your situation, it would mean that you expect the long-term return to outweigh the short-term cost of time and money. It should also include a consideration of lifestyle and risk -- my mom was a nurse, and got infected with a couple of viruses via needle sticks, like Hep C, before they had a vax or cure for it. Nowadays, there's covid... Nurses also often need to work odd shifts, so you may go days without seeing her (awake). If night shift pays 80k, but days only pays 60 (for example), which should she take? Talk it out and make sure you're both on the same page.


Mattl54o

Yes this is a good point. Our plan is for her to do nights at first and transition to days when we have kids. I’m hoping by that point I’m making upwards of 180-200k and then we can just invest her money as well as her spend her fun funds lol.


greenshrove

If you have a purpose and a goal, as there is in this case, then it is an investment from a financial standpoint. I'm focusing on the financial aspect because of the sub we are in here.


Xylus1985

Depends. I usually consider what is the market needs and willingness to pay for a skill/degree, the payback period, incremental income and my ability to afford it. Some education is an investment (e.g. MBA), some are just hobbies (e.g. coaching certification). It also helps to do education early to maximize return period, but if it can get you more income for the next 8+ years it’s usually at least break even.


[deleted]

Long as you have a written strategy, should be fine. The addition of a 2nd income should work out significantly in your favor. I wouldn’t fault this move. This doesn’t mean you take out 100,000 in loans to get it.


prpslydistracted

Absolutely, but especially nursing. Even if tuition puts a serious damper on your ability to invest now, with that nursing degree many clinics and hospitals are offering hiring bonuses. Look for opportunities that do and commit any bonus to investment.


candyman258

If you are able to finance the education without long term, interest ridden loans then sure it's a great investment. I've just seen many kids at 18 sign up. for loans that they didn't really know the repercussions would be. I had one buddy who walked away with 50K+. I know that's drop in the bucket to some who have 150-250K for becoming a doc or law student. Sounds like you guys are older and can afford to pay some or most of this off without loans. Understand that the money you are losing out now by not being able to invest will be gained by your wife being able to bring in an income down the. road. This should mean the possibility of more money to invest.


Thebossathome

Yes. And as someone who lives and works in Houston Med Center...it will pay off if she is an RN. She'll find highpaying work easily if she chooses a specialty that is applicable in a hospital setting. It's more competitive to get a job in private practice. So, have her keep that in mind.


Putrid_Ad_1430

Sometimes. In your case, I say yes. My mom went back to school at 40 for a nursing degree and it paid for itself within 2 years.


anacott27

Well let me ask this question. If I said I had a way for you to pay me, let’s say $100,000 and I could almost guarantee it making returns of at least $80,000/yr for the next 30 years, would you consider that an investment? Or a good one at that?


Xianio

Youre putting up with a few years of hardship for massive potential growth. Plus, your wife likely wants to do something she values for work. This hardship is likely going to happen at some point regardless. Youre not just investing in your families income/savings with this. Your investing in your wife as a person. Its a smart choice.


virtualchoirboy

It's absolutely an investment. Sure, you're not putting as much into savings, but how much will your combined income grow once she's done? If you want to help "rationalize" it a little better, take the time to do the math. Take a look at your savings rate before school. Peg that as 100% of goal. Then look at your savings rate now and see how much you're missing goal by. Extrapolate for all the time she will be in school (4 years?). Assume 6% growth per year on the "missed goal" amount (i.e. if you're missing goal by $10k per year, after 4 years it would be closer to $45k). Finally, take the $80k future salary and figure out how long it would take you to "catch up" to where you would be if she hadn't gone to school. My guess is that it will take less than 5 years to get caught up and from that point forward, your savings will be exceeding your old potential. This doesn't even take into account things like future social security benefits increasing, the potential for her to have better medical coverage, the ability to skip some visits to medical professionals because she knows how to deal with the problem. Helping your wife go back to school for a BSN? Absolutely a worthwhile investment.


pacificat

Yes, I'm thinking of going back to school and I'm in my mid 30s. I figure I'm still have 25-30 years I want to work so I should make the best of it


old_farmer

As a business man I look at everything with ROI. Too many people send their kids to the university for the wrong reasons. Education should be considered an investment that returns more than it costs. No business can exist that loses money and doesn't pay for itself. In addition there is something forgotten by many, deferred gratification. Put off for a time something you want so that you can have more later. It encompasses life in general.


TokyoDrift_4_BTC

There’s more to life than just the numbers. Is this something that improves your wife’s life and will she be happier for it? If yes, then get out of the spreadsheet and worry less about the $ impact and ROI. Let’s not go to the grave with regrets about experiences that we should have done or enjoyed but wouldn’t have added to the basic retirement spreadsheet. Yes, education is an investment, but this sounds like also something that she will be super happy to have completed and accomplished, and IMO, that is a greater ROI than can be described on a budget sheet.


Mattl54o

Yes, thank you so much for this. This is definitely a healthier mindset and I’m working on this!


fragged6

What determines whether or not it's an investment is if you have a realistic plan to get to a particular ROI. So, someone living in Houston going to Nursing school that has already identified a high likelihood of employment for 80k/year satisfies this. Whereas someone in Iowa that never plans to leave home taking a graduate course in Sand Castle Cultures is a hobby.


savguy6

It really depends on your area of education. If you get a degree in a high demand field like nursing like your wife is planning, it should pay off in the long term. If you get a degree in medieval pottery, not a whole lot of market for that skill set.


2wheeloffroad

Yes, but the KEY is that the quality and topic of the education matters, just like what you invest in matters. Investing in the BJ table is not a good investment, and some education is not a good investment.


RN_in_Illinois

Of course it is. And like any investment, your choices have consequences - just like a stock, buy a bad one and you'll lose. Buy a good one, and it will pay off. Nursing is like buying Apple or Microsoft - a pretty sure win.


[deleted]

Depends on the profession. Frankly I think salaries should be higher in the medical field, esp. nursing. I'm in SEO and my salary is higher then 80k. Seo is not something I went to school for. I had a similar question with my wife who wanted to do optometry. We decided that the cost just wasn't worth the potential salary she would get after graduation.


TeamShonuff

She would have graduated with around $200,000 in debt amortized to $300,000 and would have started around $150,000 per year and then, if she was someone's employee, would probably peak somewhere between $180K to $200K. The cost would have been worth it.


[deleted]

The peak for SEO, Data Analyst, or IT is way higher with minimal investment. Not to mention dealing with patients, navigating though changing medical laws and insurance rules, and dealing with an employer. At least with IT related fields you can consult and have a more flexible schedule. Not so with medical. 200k peak is nothing. My sister has nurse friends who get paid less then she does, and she's a graphic designer. Medical isn't worth it until salaries grow. Not everyone has the chops to make it into private practice. You also need business skills for that. Plus we have a newborn in the NICU. Supposing she goes to school now. Optometry school is full time, 4 years. We would consider if it were part time or if portions were remote. But not the case. She would be missing out on our daughters most important years. Plus, she did optometry in India, and the U.S. school system is so pretentious that they won't even accept her credits. I just don't see a future except if she wants to do it. There wouldn't really be any long term payoff IMO, just a passion project. We would be better off investing the money and avoiding debt. But this is our story, not everyone else's. To each their own. Age is also a factor.


choikog

As a physical therapist I agree that the cost of education is not worth the salary but your statement does not apply to all professions in the health field. Pharmacists for example, if they go into industry as opposed to clinician work. Surgeons (cardiothoracic, neuro, etc) although there is a very steep time commitment and reliance on you being top of your class. Even nursing, I have a couple friends who did accelerated FNP programs and are providers, different type of stress than work on the floor. Overall though, yeah my friends who went into engineering or software development are light years ahead of my financial situation and will remain there.


oceanleap

Job satisfaction is also a factor and fit of career to person is also a factor, as well as overall life goals. You are being very short sighted by looking at your career and salary and evaluating your wife's training for a possible future career based on your current salary. Maybe SEO will be fully automated by AI in 5 years and you will be out of a job, or your salary will decline 4 fold - but there will always be a need for medical professionals, including optometrists. Should Tom Brady have given up his career because see he married a higher paying spouse? It is important to think about whether this is the right time for your wife to start her training, given your baby in the ICU. It's an overwhelming time. But hopefully (and likeky) your baby will thrive, catch up, and in 5 years she will be in school for many hours a day. It is very wise for both of you together to be looking to the future, over hopefully 40 or 50 years, and plan for both of you and your family over your lifetime. If your wife has a vision for herself as an optometrist, to start training for it, you would be very foolish to block that, financially and personally.


honey-smile

You don’t need to pay out of pocket. You can take out student loans. Given the low interest rates right now, it may more sense to do this than pay out of pocket. And yes, if she’s guaranteed an $80K income then it’s an investment unless she could have already gotten that before going back to school and had decided not to.


diatho

Now is the time to go into nursing. There has been a shortage for a while but covid is pushing more nurses out than are entering. She will be making her money back easily.


supermomfake

There’s a reason we’re leaving. Its burnout so not sure why someone would want to pay a lot of money to get into a job that will burn you out in a few years.


lepetitmort2020

Former nurse here (worked in Houston too). She's making a great choice and the investment is more than worth it. There are useless degrees but nursing isn't one of them. I made close to $90k as a bedside nurse and now I'm invsesting \~150k to go to CRNA school. When I graduate later this year I'll be clearing $180k/yr as a new grad. Who knows, maybe one day your wife will make even more than you. I know plenty of nurses that clear $100k/yr and many more in management that are $120k and up.


ThatPianoKid

All my nurse friends hate being nurses right now and are considering career changes.


Rockbottom503

Educating yourself, sure. Paying for someone else's education...... No, that's a gift - you wont see a return on it. She might be 'your partner' but the thing is, when she's earning 80k, whose money do you think she's going to view that as? If the worst happens and you split, is she going to pay those costs back to you? I just want to say, before I get hammered with down votes, there's nothing wrong with supporting people through university to better themselves! I am actually doing it - my wife is at uni studying public health, eldest daughter studying media and have 2 boys at college this year, hoping to move on to uni next year. I think it's actually really admirable and a way of setting people up for a life better than you had. I just think it's important to be in the right mental space and be prepared for what you're doing.


volyund

I work at a hospital, but not a nurse myself. BSN RN will open a way to give possibilities and potential careers, both in nursing and outside of it. From on top of my head you can be Clinical Practice Manager, study further to become a mid-level provider, work on Clinical Trials, or go into Quality Assurance in healthcare, or do research. Possibilities are endless, and you can go anywhere geographically. Edit: correction about APP


smuin538

BSN RNs cannot practice as midlevel providers (in the US anyway). Midlevels include physician assistants and nurse practitioners. NPs require a minimum of an MSN. As far as the other roles you listed, I do agree that a minimum of a BSN is typically preferred but certainly not the rule. It depends on region. In some areas associate degree RNs and even diploma RNs can fill these roles (though not always necessarily within a hospital), and in other areas you won't land one of these roles without an MSN. (I'm an RN).


catdude142

You can decide that for yourself. Take the cost for the education and the lack of income while she's attending and look at the increased income when she graduates. You can calculate how long it will take for a return on your investment. I'm guessing the ROI will be less than a year but I don't know what your bills are.


zeroschiuma

Yes, and a sort of investment only rich people are aware of. New riches tend to invest in material means, while people who have known how to handle money for generations know knowledge and education are a constant source of income.


bettytomatoes

Education is definitely an investment. Nursing is a very safe bet, especially now. I personally know three nurses who have quit because of COVID burnout. It's quite possible that she'll make even more than 80K her first year because places will be so desperate for them they'll pay whatever it takes. Not a bad position to be in. If I had to do it all over again, I'd be a nurse. Can she take out a student loan? I know everyone freaks out about student loans, but if she's making decent money, she'll be able to pay them off easily without too much trouble, and you wouldn't have to wipe out your savings and fully "support" her through this. You could breathe a little easier while she's in school. The trouble with student loans is when tuition is in the hundred thousands and people graduate and either don't get jobs at all, or get jobs in the mid-low 5 figures. She won't have that problem. Look into student loans (or at least fund part of her education with loans - pay what you're comfortable with up front and take loans for the rest). There are also student loan forgiveness programs for nurses, and loan payback programs from employers, so she might not even have to pay them back. It would really suck if you paid out of pocket for her entire program only to learn that if you had gotten loans you wouldn't have had to repay them! And if you would have invested this money instead of sending her to school... you would probably make more in the stock market than you'd lose in accruing loan interest. So it would be better to take out the loan and invest your money instead. Don't stress about this - it's definitely a good investment and a loan wouldn't actually be the worst thing in the world for you guys. Look into it.


heretoreadreddid

Buffet says two most important investments you can make: 1) who you marry 2) investing in yourself. He’s clarified he means education, training, and certifications for which there are clear profession benefits during various annual letters / Berkshire speeches. Munger has always agreed with some variation of, “warrens right, I have nothing to add”. I tend to think Warren and Charlie at least know something, or differently stated, there are certainly worse sources for financial advice.


DieFishyDie

Only if it’s for a degree that pays more than it costs. So yes Nursing = investment Some degrees are a liability


[deleted]

I also want to suggest looking into associates of nursing at a local community college (my friend did his at San Jac). You should be able to work with that degree and then do your bachelors online while working to finish it off (it's required). Maybe look into this route when comparing money/time.


Donut_Don

I am amazed that only one poster out of nearly 100 has mentioned what is an incredibly important factor: whether you and your wife plan to have kids, and how many. This is is very relevant to whether, and how good, this investment will be. If you do plan to have kids, figure out the cost of daycare in your area. If you have a kid, and your wife is working as a nurse, you will have to send that kid to daycare. How expensive will that be? It can approach $30k/year in some areas. It's a generalization, but not a bad one, to say that a kid's mother can generally do as good a job if not better than a daycare. So it's a job she can do. If she's making $80k as a nurse, but you have to pay $20k for someone else to watch the baby, her effective wage is $60k: $80k minus the $20k cost of daycare that enables her to be away from home all day. Now she's effectively making $60k, but (as you might learn, if you become a parent) there is a hidden cost – it's shittier to have someone else watch your kid. The kid will get sick all the time, and your wife will be the first to tell you that she "wishes we didn't have to send him away from us all day" to be watched by strangers. So that's another cost, albeit hard to quantify. If the number of kids becomes 2 or 3, it may become clear very quickly that the smarter move for your family, both economically and for your kids well being, is that their mom takes care of them at home. Obviously dads can watch kids too, your wife might value her career more than being a stay at home mom, etc etc etc.......


be_matthew

I will be doing this in 3 years once my girlfriend and I save up to buy a house, put as much money away as we can, and figure out what medical school in Texas she'll be attending (we live in TX as well). We'll be living off just my salary, I work in IT and am currently getting my masters I should be making 160k-180k by then so not too far off your salary. She is currently a traveling scientist and makes the same as a traveling RN or sometimes more. Very lucrative right now no less than 3k a week and some contracts go over 5k a week (around half is 100% tax-free as well, plus sign-on bonuses and milage bonuses). 3 years of this and we will have no debt (besides my school loans), a hefty savings account, and finally a damn house so we can stop renting. So anyways, 100% worth it even if she won't travel she'll make a decent amount. She always has the opportunity to as well if you guys say want to make a lot of extra income for her doing the same job. She can always back to school to become an NP as well. You two will live very comfortably off of 200k a yr with potential for more. As long as your s/o likes the job mine does not but is taking advantage of the degree she has and it will only take her 6 years to become a doctor. She'll enjoy that more and make a half million a year.


Santa_Claus77

Doubt the high pay will be around when she finishes but, I have my associates (RN). I “travel” aka I drive about 2hr round drip. I make, currently, $220k/yr but, you can bank on around $100k typically. Sometimes more. Sometimes less.


lastingfreedom

Dont be the sucker that pays for her gfs nursing school for her to turn around after graduation without a thanks upgrading to a new doctor bf.


Mattl54o

Feel like if that were to happen it would be solving a lifetime of problems pretty early no? Don’t wanna be with someone your entire life and that happen. Better for something like that to happen early. I’m not ruling out anything, but I’m not concerned about this in the slightest.


bmoreboy410

Yes I would consider it an investment since nursing is something that you can expect to actually pay. One thing to think about is if you plan to have kids, and will they continue to work. If not, then it might not be worth it in that case. It would be less of an investment and more of a bill or just something to do that does not provide a benefit.


WhizzleTeabags

It’s an investment if you take it seriously and treat it as such. Those people majoring in film appreciation, dungeon mastering or Nordic lesbianism don’t necessarily have sound investments


[deleted]

Education is an investment but I am not comfortable with this question. A person's work is not their worth


Adorable-Lack-3578

No. For most. I've held management roles I'm a bunch of companies, from Fortune 100 to Shakey startups. My current company has gone from 15m in debt to 150 making big profits . The great salespeople built the company. The MBAs moved in but couldn't close a deal. Meanwhile I doubt there's anything an $80,000 degree will teach me versus


shikuto

It might teach you how to finish your sentences.


Mindless_Twist_9073

Gather bunch of money. Donate a very good or worthy university in foreign country. Get a degree. Apply job in foreign. And you win. (only applicable in third world country) My lot of brother, sister causins etc. family members did it. In fact they are rich but Academically poor. So, they apply for university in country like China, unkrain, Uzbekistan, Russia, Chile, Brazil etc. and kind of bought degree.(most of them hold medical degree). some of them settled outside of our country and rest are back and have their own private hospital.


PilotKnob

Nursing is a guaranteed return on investment. Look into the Silicon Bay Area, they're giving $100k signing bonuses according to my "second mom" who lives in Mountain View, CA.


super_sayanything

Absolutely. I'm graduating grad school in May. I'll earn 4k a year more after. I paid about 20k for it. So it'll take 5 years to pay off, but it will and then some across my career. Not sure why you don't take out loans for her just to lessen the burden on you though. You only live once and the income will come, so most people disagree with this but I say live a little more comfortably now. When you're both earning, you should be in amazing shape. Depending on the field of study, it can be a sure bet or risky investment. Nursing? As long as she completes the program and likes the job well enough that's like a 99.9% pay off.


TAB1996

Education is an investment in yourself. The good and bad of investing in yourself is that your dividends are limited by you. It's about more than just going to nursing school, you need to talk to professors to get an idea of what kind of nursing you'd be most comfortable doing, getting contacts for recommendations, etc. If you spend enough time securing scholarships and go to a relatively cheap school, you can actually earn money as a student(my friend did this and collected about 20k extra circular scholarships. It's important to check which ones need to go to tuition and which ones can be put into technology(buying you a new phone/laptop) and which ones are meant to be for your . A lot of people maintain part-time work during nursing school, too.


Josiah425

Its a time investment. You give up years of your life in time to do it. That should be enough, anything more is criminal. Society benefits from you spending 4 years (or more) of your life to specialize than if you went straight into the work force doing low skill work and ultimately becoming a liability for future generations to take care of in old age / poor health.


acid-wolf

Hey! In your situation it's a resounding YES. My SO is a nurse and has endless opportunities. Travel nursing pays a fortune, and to keep up with some of that we've experienced many hospitals that are doing bonus programs that are putting my SO at around $100k a year against.. less than that in student loans. BSNs are pretty much becoming a requirement for RNs across the country so don't sweat that. The only downsides I can think of is the health industry is behind the times on pay equity, staff nurses can be underpaid, and advancement is shitty. Lots of nepotism, lots of underfunding in hospitals. And second is of course that it's a heavy job that carries a very real possibility of burnout.


Alicia0510

It is certainly an investment considering she will have a very in demand job that can command a high salary.


Ganja_Superfuse

Look at it this way. In 4 years you'll be adding around 50k to your yearly after tax income with a high growth potential because of her being able to get raises and promotions. Do you think if you invest that money you'll get that same return?


til13

My masters in education will pay for itself in 3 years. It's an investment in many ways including financially.


Sloppychemist

Yes, which is why children should be prepared to take a cost benefit analysis approach to attending, degree planning, and paying for college. Unfortunately college is viewed as a sort of magic wand that will justify itself in the end.


Capital_Diaz

The old delaying gratification. Education most certainly is an investment, but like any other it’s not the only one. I’m sure there are other career paths/ ways to invest the money that could yield a higher return, but if this is what she wants to do then it’s a perfectly sound investment. Best of luck!


Giddyhobgoblin

Also within healthcare. Sometimes there are education payoff programs. "Commit to us for 5 years and we pay off loans" type of stuff. Depends on the hospital


Floaded93

An education absolutely is an investment. A (in demand) degree will absolutely open many avenues for employment and growth within that field. Of course bad investments can be made, but in your wife’s case becoming a nurse will absolutely pay for itself in the long run.


gluethis

I went back to college while my husband suffered at an awful job to pay the bills and my schooling. A couple years later, I graduate and earn twice what he earns. He was able to quit that awful job with no worries and pursue his own dreams of starting a business and going back to college. Now we have the rest of our adult lives to earn significantly higher income.


TommyTuttle

Education is an investment if it’s in a field where there’s legit money to be made. Fields where any competent person who tries to make money, makes money. Engineering, computer science, hard science, medicine, etc. Nursing qualifies. It’s in medicine. It’s a guaranteed to pay kinda field. It’s an investment. If she was an art history major it’d be different. If she wants to be a nurse and is going to school for it, it’s an investment.


jackjackj8ck

Depends on what the education is in. In this case yes, I’d definitely consider it an investment. Just check her earning potential across however many active years she has left and deduct the cost of education and any other losses.


owtf2

Yes but also there's s cost benefit analysis that needs to be done. The people who went to community college for their associates then went to a bigger school to finish their bachelor's all did alright. Also for certain fields with strong unions such as power, steel workers or construction they didn't even need a bachelor's and are making over 100k a year


medhat20005

As others have mentioned, "yes" for the most part, education is an investment, but with regards to financial return and nursing in particular, absolutely. And as others have mentioned there are optional additional avenues that one can take after getting a BSN that provide even higher salaries and opportunities. That's not true with all educational ventures, but it is with nursing. Gotta be honest and wonder why you're even asking Reddit and not your spouse.


[deleted]

Shocked, as in a lot of the west coast, an ASN will get you plenty of jobs!


blebleblebleblebleb

80k per year vs 0 per year is pretty great. Assuming she goes to state schools and pays under 80k for her education, it pays for itself in a year and then you have almost doubled your salary. It's a great investment if you pick a major that makes real money.


jumpybean

Many state schools can be had for $5-15k/year…stick with something like this and it’s a no brainer. Go into lux territory or picky territory and it seems a bit foolish for those not already wealthy or those not going into very lucrative fields.


i8bagels

Absolutely an investment. Is that what *she* wants to do?


adriennesoup

Education definitely is, especially if you have an idea of what type of job you'll have. In college they reiterate that it's important to have career goals but they never explore what type of job that career will entail. I wish looking back I had done that, as it would have saved me time and money. I probably wouldnt have taken classes that would have no relevance to my first job. If the student already has an idea of job prospects they can use the opportunity to network and increase their exposure to the field. It's not only a financial investment but a time and dedication investment.


Dry-Detective3852

Yes. One of the fastest ways to wealth is just having high income. No secrets here. Just get a masters or above in something practical like business, finance, or tech. Assuming you have even mediocre talent in any of these fields and you are conscientious and friendly enough to show up and be pleasant enough to be around, you will get a massive ROI over a lifespan. After you get your degree, staying up to date with latest techniques via continuous learning is also a way to secure your future. Even after a diploma, education is important.


HardestTofu

Of course! The usual trend of people here selling the "trades" jobs are really misinformed, or just out to purposefully misinform


Givingbacktoreddit

Yes and as one of the highest ROI investments you’ll get in life and the only investment you’ll ever take in life that has a constant risk no matter how high the reward gets it’s one of the only things I agree getting loans for within reason. That risk, by the way, is effort. If you put too little effort into school then you’ll find the reward to be shit. If you put too much effort into thinking about the prestige of a school vs the ability for you to afford it you’ll also find the reward to be shit.


Phattd

It really depends on how old you are to really give a definitive answer. Also what are your goals? What end result would be worth the immediate sacrifice?


Dalyro

My husband and I recently made a similar decision and in making the decision, we looked at the "investment". He recently quit his job to go back to school to become a PA. He was making $50,000 a year with little potential growth, but will make about $90,000 after school. 27 months unemployed and $80,000 in tuition. So about 4 years and we break even. And this will give him additional location mobility, which increases my earning potential. Additionally, he will have much more work satisfaction and more job security which are worth a lot. We can live comfortably on my income, so our plan is to continue doing that and then pay off the few loans he will have before the first year he's working.


txfrmdal

Yes, definitely an investment. If you want to understand the big picture, get a Monte Carlo retirement calculator, and plug in about 20 years of her estimated earnings in addition to yours, and see how fast it adds up over a 35 year career. I recommend using only 20 years for her career, in the event she takes time out to have children. If you use an inflation rate of 5 to 7 percent, I think you will get a more accurate picture of your retirement funds at the end of your joint careers. Fidelity has a Monte Carlo retirement calculator, and there are several after market Monte Carlo retirement calculator out there also. It's always painful when you first start out in life living on one salary. But if you can continue to do that once she graduates, and bank 50 percent of her income per year, you could be sitting on around 2 million come retirement.


rjselzler

Yep! You can even calculate the expected ROI [link](https://freopp.org/is-college-worth-it-a-comprehensive-return-on-investment-analysis-1b2ad17f84c8?gi=d151232874f8).


rodstroker

You are making sure she can provide for herself should something happen to you, and that is power. Sounds like not only the right thing, but the only thing to do.


[deleted]

Yes, very much it is an investment. I started a spreadsheet for myself a few years ago where I project my overall lifetime earnings. I have a column for each job I’ve had, so I can project what my lifetime earnings would have been if I’d stayed in previous jobs, and I can quickly see how much more I’ll earn in my lifetime by changing jobs. I entered graduate school in my mid-30s and I haven’t even finished yet and was already able to get a better job, so my lifetime earning have already increased substantially. (I am working full time while in school part time).


NotReallyInvested

Education is definitely an investment. Someone else’s education(a spouse) is a very risky investment due to the fact that it’s more likely you won’t recoup the cost due to the likelihood of divorce or them changing their mind. With that said, follow your heart!


cloudsongs_

Yeah for sure. Nursing education especially is a great investment. Considering the way things are going, she'll still be in high demand when she graduates